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No astro harness and no hammer. Fight to the death.

Who's going to miss thier weapon more in this fight?

I think Thor would miss it more but imho it should be always a 50-50 between top High Heralds like, Supes, SS, Thor, Orion or GL Hal (just examples).

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I think Thor would miss it more but imho it should be always a 50-50 between top High Heralds like, Supes, SS, Thor, Orion or GL Hal (just examples).

Except I wouldn't call Thor a high herald without his hammer.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Except I wouldn't call Thor a high herald without his hammer.

You might have a point there.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I think Thor would miss it more but imho it should be always a 50-50 between top High Heralds like, Supes, SS, Thor, Orion or GL Hal (just examples).


FTR Hal isn't a high herald...

A hammerless THOR is basicly classic Hercules so if Herc is a high herald then so is H/L THOR

the more I think about it I'd say if both characters had their main weapons, Orion would beat Thor maybe 6.5/10. In this scenario I think I'd be hard pressed to give Thor one win.

Strength and Durabilitywise I would consider Hercules and Hulk for that natter, high Heralds. Thor without the Hammer too.

And there's the fact that Thor can still summon storms without Mjolnir, as being the God of Thunder is his birthright. And before anyone goes "when was the last time he did that without Mjolnir?", post-Thor Disassembled - the arc in which that point was clearly driven home - Thor hasn't been disarmed for terribly long enough to warrant him doing so. I suppose Avengers Prime would be one example as, iirc, he didn't have Mjolnir for a while while he was adventuring with Tony and Steve. Either way, Thor Disassembled wasn't the only time Thor's used his power without Mjolnir nor was it the only time it's been explicitly stated that Mjolnir was a tool and the power is within Thor's blood.

And there's the fact that Thor's fighting to the death here, too. Unless the OP wants this to be strictly melee, that is.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
FTR Hal isn't a high herald...

He most certainly is.

If you don't think so, you're not reading enough GL books.

I don't think many people would argue that he'd take a clear majority on the top HHs like Superman, Thor, SS though.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And there's the fact that Thor can still summon storms without Mjolnir, as being the God of Thunder is his birthright. And before anyone goes "when was the last time he did that without Mjolnir?", post-Thor Disassembled - the arc in which that point was clearly driven home - Thor hasn't been disarmed for terribly long enough to warrant him doing so. I suppose Avengers Prime would be one example as, iirc, he didn't have Mjolnir for a while while he was adventuring with Tony and Steve. Either way, Thor Disassembled wasn't the only time Thor's used his power without Mjolnir nor was it the only time it's been explicitly stated that Mjolnir was a tool and the power is within Thor's blood.

And there's the fact that Thor's fighting to the death here, too. Unless the OP wants this to be strictly melee, that is.
I agree with this, Ill go one step further when Thor receive the OF from his father he subconsciously withheld the Odinforce from himself, all those feats as KT was done by himself. The hammer just helps Thor control/channel his godly power, that's it!!

Thor 6.5/10, with weapons Thor 8/10

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And before anyone goes "when was the last time he did that without Mjolnir?",

The thing is, how often does Thor HAVE TO do any of that without his hammer? I mean, he always has it, so it's kind of dumb to ask "when was the last time he did that without his hammer?" I think Marvel should do a story where he loses his hammer for a while, like maybe Odin wants to teach Thor to rely on his godly abilities, and then show him to be a badass without it.

But as far as fighting Orion without his hammer, I sorry to say that Thor doesn't stand a chance.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
the more I think about it I'd say if both characters had their main weapons, Orion would beat Thor maybe 6.5/10. In this scenario I think I'd be hard pressed to give Thor one win.

I'll co-sign this.

The dog of war wins.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
The thing is, how often does Thor HAVE TO do any of that without his hammer? I mean, he always has it, so it's kind of dumb to ask "when was the last time he did that without his hammer?" I think Marvel should do a story where he loses his hammer for a while, like maybe Odin wants to teach Thor to rely on his godly abilities, and then show him to be a badass without it.

But as far as fighting Orion without his hammer, I sorry to say that Thor doesn't stand a chance.

IMO Thor wins. But that would be a cool story.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I think Thor would miss it more but imho it should be always a 50-50 between top High Heralds like, Supes, SS, Thor, Orion or GL Hal (just examples). I hate you and your "everything is 50-50" bullshit.

Eat dick and stop being so ghey.

Btw orion beats thor's pansy ass.

Originally posted by D-Block
But that would be a cool story.

Yeah, it would be cool if it ran for a LONG time, and split the time up with him trying to figure out where his hammer went and who took it, and then just dealing with the standard stories of him in the MU just without the hammer....and also showing him maybe learning new abilities...

Orion.

Thor shows Orion who is the real Dog of War and aint Orion, Thor beats Orion and sends him back to Highfather with his tail between his leg.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Thor shows Orion who is the real Dog of War and aint Orion, Thor beats Orion and sends him back to Highfather with his tail between his leg.
Nope.

Thor wins...Orion doesn't have the fts to match Thors.

Split.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope.

yup

Originally posted by Batman-Prime

I love you but not enough to eat your dick, sry bro. hug

How about with a bottle of ketchup?

No but seriously, if I hadn't just seen Thor get his asgardian ass handed to him by Taurus, I would have voted for him.

I'm going to go with the new god.

I don't base it on one showing, but it does really seem like Thor has been steadily being depowered lately. His durability has gone WAY downhill. And even at his most powerful (it almost seems like 616 is being influenced by the early Ultimate Universe, in trying to go for some added realism), I'd have a hard time thinking that he could match Orion in durability and strength.

I'd go for Orion. Thor is powerful but I haven't seen him that impressive without mjolnir. Sure he has the potential but Orion doesn't seem to bothered when not fighting with his harness.

NOT TO MENTION THAT PIECE OF SHIT EQUIPMENT LOOKS TERRIBLE! I mean how could he fly with that thing? It looks like an incomplete ab-fitness equipment.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I don't base it on one showing, but it does really seem like Thor has been steadily being depowered lately. His durability has gone WAY downhill. And even at his most powerful (it almost seems like 616 is being influenced by the early Ultimate Universe, in trying to go for some added realism), I'd have a hard time thinking that he could match Orion in durability and strength.

Honestly, I don't think Thor's been depowered. Some portrayals have him struggle with Tutinex and get dismissed by Taurus...and then looking at Chaos War, Fear Itself, and how he's been handled under Fraction (and even Bendis to a degree), it's really hard to argue how he's been nerfed.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Honestly, I don't think Thor's been depowered. Some portrayals have him struggle with Tutinex and get dismissed by Taurus...and then looking at Chaos War, Fear Itself, and how he's been handled under Fraction (and even Bendis to a degree), it's really hard to argue how he's been nerfed.

Chaos War was how I think he should always be portrayed IMO. But Marvel is notorious for amping characters while they're in space, and then depowering them on earth (with SS and Thor being the classic examples). and yeah, DC does it too btw.

But there's NO WAY he should be one-shotted by lightning. And I know there's some powerhouses on the U-foes, and they have taken out the Hulk, but they shouldn't be taking Thor out either.

Marvel needs to do a WWH-esque storyline about Thor (just as long as it's written a lot better).

Originally posted by Tony Stark
FTR Hal isn't a high herald...

A hammerless THOR is basicly classic Hercules so if Herc is a high herald then so is H/L THOR

Even hammerless Thor is beyond Herc; Thor has demostrated the ability to control weather and use the God Blast sans Mjolnir...

Anyway, Thor defeats Orion under the conditions presented in the OP every single time...

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Chaos War was how I think he should always be portrayed IMO. But Marvel is notorious for amping characters while they're in space, and then depowering them on earth (with SS and Thor being the classic examples).

But there's NO WAY he should be one-shotted by lightning. And I know there's some powerhouses on the U-foes, and they have taken out the Hulk, but they shouldn't be taking Thor out either.

Marvel needs to do a WWH-esque storyline about Thor (just as long as it's written a lot better).

Chaos War was garbage in terms of actual story, but feat wise, Thor looked pretty good. Considering Thor is supposed to lead a confrontation against the Phoenix Force, I don't really have any doubts that he'll look pretty decent in comparison. Generally, Thor looks as good as his fellow Avengers does until shit hits the fan and he "stops holding back". When that happens, he winds up hurting or outright killing people outside of his tier.

It happens, unfortunately, and sometimes Thor gets Worf Effected to make other people look good, but usually, he redeems himself.

They already did. It was called the Reigning.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Chaos War was how I think he should always be portrayed IMO. But Marvel is notorious for amping characters while they're in space, and then depowering them on earth (with SS and Thor being the classic examples). and yeah, DC does it too btw.

But there's NO WAY he should be one-shotted by lightning. And I know there's some powerhouses on the U-foes, and they have taken out the Hulk, but they shouldn't be taking Thor out either.

Marvel needs to do a WWH-esque storyline about Thor (just as long as it's written a lot better).

When did the U-foes take out Hulk? Scans. If anything, they feared him (stated on panel).

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/comic%20book%20scans/ironclad1.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/comic%20book%20scans/ironclad2.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/comic%20book%20scans/ironclad3.jpg

Butthurt.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Chaos War was garbage in terms of actual story, but feat wise, Thor looked pretty good. Considering Thor is supposed to lead a confrontation against the Phoenix Force, I don't really have any doubts that he'll look pretty decent in comparison. Generally, Thor looks as good as his fellow Avengers does until shit hits the fan and he "stops holding back". When that happens, he winds up hurting or outright killing people outside of his tier.

It happens, unfortunately, and sometimes Thor gets Worf Effected to make other people look good, but usually, he redeems himself.

They already did. It was called the Reigning.

And yeah, I agree the Chaos storyline is pretty much as good as everything else Pak has been involved in.

Yeah, but they should do something like that with regular Thor.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
And yeah, I agree the Chaos storyline is pretty much as good as everything else Pak has been involved in.

Yeah, but they should do something like that with regular Thor.

Which is funny because I really liked Planet Hulk. But the Hulk stuff since then...eh.

Considering Fraction is almost always writing a raging pissed off Thor, who knows?

Originally posted by carver9
When did the U-foes take out Hulk? Scans. If anything, they feared him (stated on panel).

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/comic%20book%20scans/ironclad1.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/comic%20book%20scans/ironclad2.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/comic%20book%20scans/ironclad3.jpg

Butthurt.

You're pretty ignorant about your favorite character, aren't you? I don't have scans handy, but it was in Hulk vol 2, and X-ray turned Hulk into Bruce Banner and then he got bit**-slapped unconscious. Or there was the time Vector burned all the flesh off the Hulk, although I think he healed after that, I can't remember.

Or what about the time Ironclad KO'ed the Hulk with a boulder?

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
You're pretty ignorant about your favorite character, aren't you? I don't have scans handy, but it was in Hulk vol 2, and X-ray turned Hulk into Bruce Banner and then he got bit**-slapped unconscious. Or there was the time Vector burned all the flesh off the Hulk, although I think he healed after that, I can't remember.

Or what about the time Ironclad KO'ed the Hulk with a boulder?

Scans and during the time Vector shot the flesh off of him, Hulk still walked up to him and koed him with a single punch and then healed in a couple of panels.

Show me the scans of the others. Are you talking about this fight because Ironclad got worked?

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/comic%20book%20scans/ironclad.jpg

This is the fight you are talking about..lol.

http://m1099.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/psychogundam1/vector1.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=vector1.jpg

Man you are so clueless

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I don't base it on one showing, but it does really seem like Thor has been steadily being depowered lately. His durability has gone WAY downhill. And even at his most powerful (it almost seems like 616 is being influenced by the early Ultimate Universe, in trying to go for some added realism), I'd have a hard time thinking that he could match Orion in durability and strength.

I agree. I have seen Thor at much more potent levels though and in those I'd put him over Orion. My vote is simply on what current Thor's level appears to be.

Originally posted by Odekahn
I agree. I have seen Thor at much more potent levels though and in those I'd put him over Orion. My vote is simply on what current Thor's level appears to be.

Pretty much.

Thor is a beast and even though he have losses, he also have wins and wins against very powerful opponents.

Originally posted by Odekahn I agree. I have seen Thor at much more potent levels though and in those I'd put him over Orion. My vote is simply on what current Thor's level appears to be.

you should note orions high end feats as well.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
you should note orions high end feats as well.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Orion. He's a great character and extremely powerful. I just believe that Thor outclasses him by a smidge.

But not current Thor... Orion destroys current Thor.

EDIT: Outclasses may be a bad term. Maybe "has the edge"?

Originally posted by Odekahn
I'm not trying to take anything away from Orion. He's a great character and extremely powerful. I just believe that Thor outclasses him by a smidge.

But not current Thor... Orion destroys current Thor.

EDIT: Outclasses may be a bad term. Maybe "has the edge"?

What are current Orion's feats?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What are current Orion's feats?

Current Orion? I'm not sure to be honest, but he can't be any worse off than Thor is right now.

Originally posted by Odekahn
I'm not trying to take anything away from Orion. He's a great character and extremely powerful. I just believe that Thor outclasses him by a smidge.

But not current Thor... Orion destroys current Thor.

EDIT: Outclasses may be a bad term. Maybe "has the edge"?

Selective memory is an amazing thing.

Thor has had incredible showings in the last 10 years, I can make you a list.

The recent retardation with Tutinax (Might as well be a retcon) and Bendis worfing him briefly against Taurus are the two only recently negative things that stick out in my memory that would be considered poor. True, it's not the mid 90's or early 70's where he was on a mantel power wise but looking at his overall record, it's legitimately stupid to take your stance.

My knee jerk reaction is to point out Orion's lower end showings (And yes, he has some despite the fewer appearances) but it wouldn't do anyone justice.

Whats wrong with current Thor? He is just fighting powerful opponents.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Selective memory is an amazing thing.

Thor has had incredible showings in the last 10 years, I can make you a list.

The recent retardation with Tutinax (Might as well be a retcon) and Bendis worfing him briefly against Taurus are the two only recently negative things that stick out in my memory that would be considered poor. True, it's not the mid 90's or early 70's where he was on a mantel power wise but looking at his overall record, it's legitimately stupid to take your stance.

My knee jerk reaction is to point out Orion's lower end showings (And yes, he has some despite the fewer appearances) but it wouldn't do anyone justice.

Last 10 years isn't exactly current imo. I'm just going on what I've been seeing and reading recently. I agreed that Normally I would give it to Thor.

And if you're going to try to debate and recruit someone to your line of thinking, being condescending and insulting isn't the way to do it.

Orion fought similar people that Thor is currently fighting and got worked. He got two paneled by Shaggyman and got one shotted by Doomsday. Both have similar fts and both are similarly as strong as the other, I just give Thor the overall edge.

Thor hasn't shown any great feats without his hammer. Take Orion

Originally posted by Odekahn
Last 10 years isn't exactly current imo. I'm just going on what I've been seeing and reading recently. I agreed that Normally I would give it to Thor.

And if you're going to try to debate and recruit someone to your line of thinking, being condescending and insulting isn't the way to do it.

If the last 10 years doesn't count as current, what does?

Originally posted by Odekahn
Last 10 years isn't exactly current imo. I'm just going on what I've been seeing and reading recently. I agreed that Normally I would give it to Thor.

And if you're going to try to debate and recruit someone to your line of thinking, being condescending and insulting isn't the way to do it.

Alright bro, let's limit to only the last 5 years. Out of curiousity, have you been reading the main Thor stories? Like Fear Itself, his own main title and so on? If not (Which I'd wager is the case), I'd suggest giving them a read, the notion that Thor's been depowered and can't match Orion will disappear.

In the main Thor arcs, his worst showings in the last 5 years as far as I recall is being knocked down in the beginning of Siege and being exhausted after fighting Nul/Angrir.

Awww, did I hurt your feelings? Wanna hug it out bro?

But seriously, I did come off as more harsh than I intended to. MToo much school/work and not enough play makes Rage cranky.

Originally posted by lilshogun
Thor hasn't shown any great feats without his hammer. Take Orion

Ignorance is no excuse when we have respect threads.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The dog of war wins. What makes you think so ?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Honestly, I don't think Thor's been depowered. Some portrayals have him struggle with Tutinex and get dismissed by Taurus...and then looking at Chaos War, Fear Itself, and how he's been handled under Fraction (and even Bendis to a degree), it's really hard to argue how he's been nerfed. In this era most characters vary wildly from arc to arc. I bet writers laugh their asses off at fans for trying to make sense of it all.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And there's the fact that Thor can still summon storms without Mjolnir, as being the God of Thunder is his birthright. And before anyone goes "when was the last time he did that without Mjolnir?", post-Thor Disassembled - the arc in which that point was clearly driven home - Thor hasn't been disarmed for terribly long enough to warrant him doing so. I suppose Avengers Prime would be one example as, iirc, he didn't have Mjolnir for a while while he was adventuring with Tony and Steve. Either way, Thor Disassembled wasn't the only time Thor's used his power without Mjolnir nor was it the only time it's been explicitly stated that Mjolnir was a tool and the power is within Thor's blood.

And there's the fact that Thor's fighting to the death here, too. Unless the OP wants this to be strictly melee, that is.

The thing is, Orion can use the Astro Force without his harness too. Through bracelets on his wrists. And he has more of a history of doing so.

But the main thing, is even if energy projection is equal, Thor normally uses his hammer for defense. He'd have no way of defending against Orion's energy attacks, while Orion can create force fields.

Not that I think it will come down to energy attacks anyways, I see it being mostly a melee fight, fight to the death or no.. That's just how they roll.

Originally posted by Odekahn I'm not trying to take anything away from Orion. He's a great character and extremely powerful. I just believe that Thor outclasses him by a smidge. But not current Thor... Orion destroys current Thor. EDIT: Outclasses may be a bad term. Maybe "has the edge"?

i guess we will agree to disagree. do you have the scans of thor losing? what issue?

Why do people suddenly think current Thor is weak ? It's preposterous.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why do people suddenly think current Thor is weak ? It's preposterous.

Because he has loses against Tutinax and Taurus. Two powerful beings that would probably beat Orion as well.

Originally posted by carver9
Because he has loses against Tutinax and Taurus. Two powerful beings that would probably beat Orion as well. And he also beat an amped Thing and Hulk. People don't realize this crap varies from writer to writer. It's not like Thor has suddenly become less formidable.

Originally posted by carver9
Because he has loses against Tutinax and Taurus. Two powerful beings that would probably beat Orion as well.

Meh, Taurus isn't that powerful. Bendis wrote that scene for literally no reason other than to legitimize the threat, he was so blatant about it.

Recap: Taurus, a being powerful enough to go toe to toe with Thor himself.
Taurus' dialogue: I just took down Thor!
Bendis Interview: The Zodiac are going to be written as high end villains.

Captain America or someone will knock him out by the end of the arc.

Tutinax should get one shotted by Orion based on 90% of his history, he was written a lot more powerful than most of his showings in that arc. Of course, Thor could have just been written down. Shit happens.

That being said, Orion has been treated similarly and used in plots this way in the past, more than once from what I remember, so have a lot of characters. No reason to start treating Thor different.

Originally posted by quanchi112
And he also beat an amped Thing and Hulk. People don't realize this crap varies from writer to writer. It's not like Thor has suddenly become less formidable.

He isn't less formidable, people are just picking and choosing. Going by showings, Thor wins this. He also bust Galactus head open and defeated a being that was empowered by a thousand gods and recently whipped out half of a dimension.

Originally posted by carver9 Because he has loses against Tutinax and Taurus. Two powerful beings that would probably beat Orion as well.

scans?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Meh, Taurus isn't that powerful. Bendis wrote that scene for literally no reason other than to legitimize the threat, he was so blatant about it.

Recap: Taurus, a being powerful enough to go toe to toe with Thor himself.
Taurus' dialogue: I just took down Thor!
Bendis Interview: The Zodiac are going to be written as high end villains.

Captain America or someone will knock him out by the end of the arc.

Tutinax should get one shotted by Orion based on 90% of his history, he was written a lot more powerful than most of his showings in that arc. Of course, Thor could have just been written down. Shit happens.

Taurus appears to have some type of amp. He has gain super speed and strength. I know Ironman is no Thor but Taurus one punching him like he did during the end koing him like that is impressive and it was in a blitz fashion.

Tutinax, I'm undecided on him but he seems pretty impressive as well. People are just treating these characters differently in the current era.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
scans?

Scans of what?

Is this what you are asking for Prepman?

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11533043_02.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11533045_03.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11533046_04.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11533047_05.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11533050_06.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11533051_09.jpg

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11533088_10.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11533091_11.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11533092_12.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11533093_13.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11533096_20.jpg

If this is what you are basing your judgment off of, its not a good idea.

http://m1180.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/galanpics/dw_jla3.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=dw_jla3.jpg
http://s1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/?action=view&current=dw_jla4.jpg

Doomsday didnt even use his fist against him and took him out.

Hurts the Demorgorge and breaks his heart (Intended to be written as an Eternity level entity so even minor damage is uber shit):
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11566749_22-02-2012-04.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11566751_22-02-2012-12-13.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11566699_MT012_p03.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11566701_MT012_p04.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11566702_MT012_p09.jpg


Then he owns and kills an amped Ulik:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11566671_MT012_p12.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11566672_MT012_p13.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11566673_MT012_p16.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11566674_MT012_p17.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11566677_MT012_p19.jpg

Had nowhere else to post these, this is as good as of a thread as any.

Considering Thor's been weakened/damage for basically all of his fights under Fraction, his going to have to be nerfed to continue in a regular story without killing everything in his way. Let's pray Surfer never fights Thor under his pen again, he'll probably end up being bumped down to Mid Herald after the ass reaming he'd get.

Originally posted by carver9
Is this what you are asking for Prepman?

I'd like to note, that Thor was only down for only a few moments:
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/11566793_14.jpg

That being said, Thor really did get jobbed in this scene, at least it took a few hits to finally knock out Iron Man.

I think Ironman got the worst of it tbh. That was literally a "one punch knockout"...something you rarely see happen in the pages of comics.

Originally posted by carver9
If this is what you are basing your judgment off of, its not a good idea.

http://m1180.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/galanpics/dw_jla3.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=dw_jla3.jpg
http://s1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/?action=view&current=dw_jla4.jpg

Doomsday didnt even use his fist against him and took him out.

New Gods are usually all over the place though.. They can suffer from some of the worst writing ever.

Metron got taken out by Matrix Supergirl, for gods sake. O_o

And Doomsday was also generally played up against anyone that's not Superman (Just like Superman himself could get played up, at the expense of other characters..)

thanks for the scan. ill check them out when i get home. just like the fate/strange battle, i see orion/thor pretty even. in awesome fight thats for sure.

Originally posted by cdtm
New Gods are usually all over the place though.. They can suffer from some of the worst writing ever.

Metron got taken out by Matrix Supergirl, for gods sake. O_o

And Doomsday was also generally played up against anyone that's not Superman (Just like Superman himself could get played up, at the expense of other characters..)

Was it Orion who got taken down by a block of Iron or whatever? I remember that shit being straight up stupid. I also remember Firestorm transmuting rock into aluminum or something, trapping him under it's weight. Even Orion has his share of low showings.

New Gods definitely fluctuate, plenty of characters do, but with the Final Crisis reveal, it gets even more complicated.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Was it Orion who got taken down by a block of Iron or whatever? I remember that shit being straight up stupid. I also remember Firestorm transmuting rock into aluminum or something, trapping him under it's weight. Even Orion has his share of low showings.

New Gods definitely fluctuate, plenty of characters do, but with the Final Crisis reveal, it gets even more complicated.

Yeah, Firestorm wrapped Orion in a block of titanium and he was unable to get out until firestorm let him loose.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus Was it Orion who got taken down by a block of Iron or whatever? I remember that shit being straight up stupid. I also remember Firestorm transmuting rock into aluminum or something, trapping him under it's weight. Even Orion has his share of low showings. New Gods definitely fluctuate, plenty of characters do, but with the Final Crisis reveal, it gets even more complicated.

firestorm trapped him in some type of metal, but orion eventually broke free. in simonsons run however, the same thing happened and orion easily got out of it. with the astro force.

Orion isn't as strong as people make him out to be.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/fs123.jpg

But this is the issue it happened it. Encased him in titanium.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/fs124.jpg

Yea, that's some weak shit for an elite strong men, especially since he was outright failing, and not to some unquantifiable shit but titanium/lead. Still, every character has bad showings, Orion is still beastly.

Originally posted by carver9
Orion isn't as strong as people make him out to be.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/fs123.jpg

But this is the issue it happened it. Encased him in titanium.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/fs124.jpg

Lol Carver do You even read your own scans?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yea, that's some weak shit for an elite strong men, especially since he was outright failing, and not to some unquantifiable shit but titanium/lead. Still, every character has bad showings, Orion is still beastly.

We really don't have any lifting fts for Orion and the one we do have, Wonderman has easily replicated/surpassed. If he's anywhere near Thor league, he should have held that block up.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Lol Carver do You even read your own scans?

What am I missing?

Originally posted by carver9
We really don't have any lifting fts for Orion and the one we do have, Wonderman has easily replicated/surpassed. If he's anywhere near Thor league, he should have held that block up.

Maybe We should find that writer take on Thor and see How much Thor can lift under his portrayal.

Originally posted by carver9
What am I missing?

"Trust me on this one, You can TOTALLY get out of titanium"

Originally posted by biensalsa
Maybe We should find that writer take on Thor and see How much Thor can lift under his portrayal.

Lol...Thor has lifted far more than that lead block. Just accept what happen and move on.

Originally posted by carver9 Orion isn't as strong as people make him out to be. http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/fs123.jpg But this is the issue it happened it. Encased him in titanium. http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/fs124.jpg

why dont you post orion getting out of a similar trap in simonsons run? orion is equal or near equal to superman. as stated by metron.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Thor has lifted far more than that lead block. Just accept what happen and move on.

You know what? that is actually a really good idea, let see what Jack Kirby has to say about it.

Let me go back and read, Ill get back on this one.

What has Kirby said regarding Thor and a block of lead? Stan/Kirby Thor had illustrated much greater strength than that over the years.

Originally posted by carver9
We really don't have any lifting fts for Orion and the one we do have, Wonderman has easily replicated/surpassed. If he's anywhere near Thor league, he should have held that block up.

Orion lacks lifting and pure strength feats, maybe more than even Captain Marvel, it's true, but for the most part, he's portrayed as a competitive Top Tier.

He can hang with Thor.

I posted what happened. You accepting it or not wasn't my intentions.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What has Kirby said regarding Thor and a block of lead? Stan/Kirby Thor had illustrated much greater strength than that over the years.



Orion lacks lifting and pure strength feats, maybe more than even Captain Marvel, it's true, but for the most part, he's portrayed as a competitive Top Tier.

He can hang with Thor.

Wise words

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus What has Kirby said regarding Thor and a block of lead? Stan/Kirby Thor had illustrated much greater strength than that over the years. Orion lacks lifting and pure strength feats, maybe more than even Captain Marvel, it's true, but for the most part, he's portrayed as a competitive Top Tier. He can hang with Thor.

i agree. orion has hanged with superman on more than one ocassion, he has hanged with classic mantis, who embarassed pre-crisis dr. fate, and he even hanged with darkseid. hes legit.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What has Kirby said regarding Thor and a block of lead? Stan/Kirby Thor had illustrated much greater strength than that over the years.



Orion lacks lifting and pure strength feats, maybe more than even Captain Marvel, it's true, but for the most part, he's portrayed as a competitive Top Tier.

He can hang with Thor.

Would you give him a majority in a fist fight?

Nah, I'd say a split is accurate. Walt Simonson's Orion was beastly in a fight.

I can't believe no one has created an updated Orion respect thread. After my exams are over in May, I'll have some free time. mhmm

For the record, Simonson would fall into that opinion category (He said Thor would win and has given Orion the nod depending on which book his penning), he's one of the definitive writers of both characters. He also gave Thor the win over Superman. All in all, a very intelligent fellow. excellent

On a side note, Thor will most likely be fighting a Phoenix empowered Emma Frost in Avenger's versus X-men:
http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads//2012/04/avx61.jpg?942405
http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads//2012/04/avx3a.jpg?942405

That will be one interesting battle, hope he puts up an awesome showing, all in all he has an awesome track record against high end enemies and cosmics, one of the best if not the best.

Yah, Simonson clearly understands that Thor and Orion are cooler than Superman. biscuits

Simonson's going to be on art duties for the Avengers, too. Hopefully he does a few issues of Mighty Thor.

From what I hear, he is assisting in some of the issues in the Thor run. Whoever appear in this run to challenge Thor, I feel sorry for them. Whoever is writing all the Asgarding material now is doing good. Thor is running through everything that comes his way.

Thor's going to be off fighting the Phoenix for the first half of the series. Hopefully he puts up a good fight and doesn't get worfed.

One of the reasons he went up into space is to balance out the odds, IIRC Gillen said if he fought the X-men, he'd be an unstoppable force and Colossus Juggernaut wouldn't want to be in his way.

And unfortunately, Fraction isn't writing any of his main battles, at least far as I can tell (Haven't been paying attention to this event). If he is, the opponent is pretty much screwed, but on the flip side, in an event like this with so many writers, characters will get jobbed to some extent, and for someone's pet character, what's better than looking good against a powerhouse like Thor?

And yet, people think current Thor is "weak". ermm

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Even hammerless Thor is beyond Herc; Thor has demostrated the ability to control weather and use the God Blast sans Mjolnir...

Anyway, Thor defeats Orion under the conditions presented in the OP every single time...
facepalm

Originally posted by carver9
Orion isn't as strong as people make him out to be.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/fs123.jpg

But this is the issue it happened it. Encased him in titanium.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/fs124.jpg

Thor can't break out of chains
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/1.jpg

Thor struggles to break out of lava
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/2.jpg
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/3.jpg

Thor struggles to break out of cement
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/5.jpg
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/6.jpg
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/7.jpg

Thor can't break free from debris
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/8.jpg

Thor is pinned and knocked out from a rock
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/9.jpg

Thor at half strength can't lift a tractor
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/10.jpg

Thor is pinned by a Javelin
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/11.jpg

Troll more.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus Nah, I'd say a split is accurate. Walt Simonson's Orion was beastly in a fight. I can't believe no one has created an updated Orion respect thread. After my exams are over in May, I'll have some free time. mhmm For the record, Simonson would fall into that opinion category (He said Thor would win and has given Orion the nod depending on which book his penning), he's one of the definitive writers of both characters. He also gave Thor the win over Superman. All in all, a very intelligent fellow. excellent On a side note, Thor will most likely be fighting a Phoenix empowered Emma Frost in Avenger's versus X-men: http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads//2012/04/avx61.jpg?942405 http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads//2012/04/avx3a.jpg?942405 That will be one interesting battle, hope he puts up an awesome showing, all in all he has an awesome track record against high end enemies and cos

truth! even Ravenseye ( a huge thor fan and respected poster from Herochat) acknowleadges that it would be a split. hell, i think he said simonsons orion would get a small majority. anyway, split is my vote.

Originally posted by Spire
Thor can't break out of chains
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/1.jpg

Thor struggles to break out of lava
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/2.jpg
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/3.jpg

Thor struggles to break out of cement
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/5.jpg
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/6.jpg
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/7.jpg

Thor can't break free from debris
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/8.jpg

Thor is pinned and knocked out from a rock
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/9.jpg

Thor at half strength can't lift a tractor
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/10.jpg

Thor is pinned by a Javelin
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/11.jpg

Troll more.

Good attempt at the trolling but these should definitely have asterisks but whatever, it's not important.

Edit: Okay, I'm too much of a fanboy to not get in at least one correction. In the fourth set, that wasn't regular debris but Earth controlled and pressed on Thor by Ego Prime after he blasts him.

Now I'm satisfied, post Thor getting knocked down by a bullet.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Good attempt at the trolling but these should definitely have asterisks but whatever, it's not important.

Edit: Okay, I'm too much of a fanboy to not get in at least one correction. In the fourth set, that wasn't regular debris but Earth controlled and pressed on Thor by Ego Prime after he blasts him.

Now I'm satisfied, post Thor getting knocked down by a bullet.
Nah, thor koed by falling from a mast is more hilarious.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Good attempt at the trolling but these should definitely have asterisks but whatever, it's not important.

Edit: Okay, I'm too much of a fanboy to not get in at least one correction. In the fourth set, that wasn't regular debris but Earth controlled and pressed on Thor by Ego Prime after he blasts him.

Now I'm satisfied, post Thor getting knocked down by a bullet.

If you feel that I am trolling by responding to carver posting a low showing from Orion and claiming Orion isn't that strong, feel free to report me. Otherwise, stop trolling and keep your butthurt to yourself.

As for scan 4, I went off of memory. I could switch it out for another if you want. Let me know.

It's been a pleasure.

lmao Carver strikes again.

I'm telling you guys, he's the greatest troll on this site.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
lmao Carver strikes again.

I'm telling you guys, he's the greatest troll on this site.
After quan.

Originally posted by Spire
If you feel that I am trolling by responding to carver posting a low showing from Orion and claiming Orion isn't that strong, feel free to report me. Otherwise, stop trolling and keep your butthurt to yourself.

As for scan 4, I went off of memory. I could switch it out for another if you want. Let me know.

It's been a pleasure.

I'm not reprimanding you or anything, I don't give a shit and if this wasn't Thor vs. Orion, I'd have done the same to be honest. I was just calling your post what it is, if you feel uncomfortable with that word, well, stop being a vagina and buck up. You know what you did, and everybody does it, it's all in good fun.

Whatever bro, I just wanted to get in one correction, otherwise I'd have gone into detail with every set, just a force of habit. Add in something new if you want, doesn't really matter to me, I've had my fix.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nah, thor koed by falling from a mast is more hilarious.

Not entirely sure on that being a low showing. It was written by Claremont who writes a very powerful Thor, and Umar was directly blamed for that incident. It's very possible more magic was going on, especially since Thor withstood planetary forces later in the issue. Could just be an irregularity, but I'm betting on the former not the latter.

The bullet showing is a legitimate low showing with barely any context (The writer said it was supposed to be Vibranium or something but who gives a shit) stick to that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
After quan.

Nah, Carv trumps Quan in the trolling department.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Not entirely sure on that being a low showing. It was written by Claremont who writes a very powerful Thor, and Umar was directly blamed for that incident. It's very possible more magic was going on, especially since Thor withstood planetary forces later in the issue. Could just be an irregularity, but I'm betting on the former not the latter.

The bullet showing is a legitimate low showing with barely any context (The writer said it was supposed to be Vibranium or something but who gives a shit) stick to that. Sounds like a bit of extrapolation.


For the record about Orion showings that Carver posted however, that's because he was lifting a certain heavy weight, and then it suddenly tripled if not more. Its really not all that bad of showing. Neither is the getting your arms pinned locked in titanium. You could take some of the strongest men on the planet, and allthough they can run with a 747 tied to their nutsack, you can zip tie their arms down to their sides with a couple pieces of plastic. There's no leverage. Are they low showings? I suppose, but they aren't really that terrible.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Nah, Carv trumps Quan in the trolling department. No, because Carver understands he's wrong all the time.

Originally posted by Juntai
No, because Carver understands he's wrong all the time.

Except when he doesn't.

He's very meticulously decided upon backing his favorite character, Thor, except when it comes to his favorite, Hulk, but his favorite character, Gladiator, has showings above them all, even if Hulk is the strongest there is, but let's not forget Thor has feats above Superman, who'd lose to all three. Also, Hulk.

I'm going to be the only person prepared for when the final trap is sprung and Carver's evil plan comes to fruition because everyone else underestimates him. And on that day, I'll be the beacon of light to show the way.

Quan just likes Thanos. A lot.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Not entirely sure on that being a low showing. It was written by Claremont who writes a very powerful Thor, and Umar was directly blamed for that incident. It's very possible more magic was going on, especially since Thor withstood planetary forces later in the issue. Could just be an irregularity, but I'm betting on the former not the latter.

The bullet showing is a legitimate low showing with barely any context (The writer said it was supposed to be Vibranium or something but who gives a shit) stick to that.
I would stick to the most simple explanation that it was a hilariously low showing. You are the thor fanboy, not me.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Except when he doesn't.

He's very meticulously decided upon backing his favorite character, Thor, except when it comes to his favorite, Hulk, but his favorite character, Gladiator, has showings above them all, even if Hulk is the strongest there is, but let's not forget Thor has feats above Superman, who'd lose to all three. Also, Hulk.

I'm going to be the only person prepared for when the final trap is sprung and Carver's evil plan comes to fruition because everyone else underestimates him. And on that day, I'll be the beacon of light to show the way.

Quan just likes Thanos. A lot.
LMFAO.

World War Carver is no laughing matter.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
World War Carver is no laughing matter.
Yeah, it is not.
crylaugh

The only thing worse than that would be World War Chomper.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The only thing worse than that would be World War Chomper.
Huh?

lol look him up.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
lol look him up.
Who? Chomperx?