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The apperance of Darth Plagueis and Revan novels spurred some interesting disscussions on new characters' abilities, thus I give you the ultimate battle between powerful Sith Lords.

Everything goes.

Setting: Naboo plains

Vitiate for the LolMindFvck instawin.

puh-leeze.

Which Sidious is this?

This is RotS Sidious.

Damn.. this is close.

I can see this ultimately coming down to Plagueis versus Vitiate.

I'm not sure who would win that.

revan can handle both of them alone imho. Plagueis can not manipulate revans mids because revan is too strong imho. vitiate is possibly a greater midochlorian controler because he managed to live centuries. I wonder if perhaps plagueis gets his knowledge vitiates spirit

Vitiate was immortal because of a Sith Spell that let him suck the life force from the people on a planet and the planet itself. So in practice he'd live as long as the planet and it's combined people would have. Billions if not trillions of years.

I see why you would believe that. But let me tell you where your wrong. Nihilus did the same thing yet he never gained immortality. I beleive it was his midi manipulation that gave him immortality

Originally posted by darthshade
I see why you would believe that. But let me tell you where your wrong. Nihilus did the same thing yet he never gained immortality. I beleive it was his midi manipulation that gave him immortality



Nihilus was essentially energy infused into armor, unless I'm mistaken.

We don't know what kind of "lifespan" his Giga-drain or changed-nature, gave him.

I believe that because that's what was stated in the books and The Old Republic MMO, all of which is canon.

And Battlemaster's right. Nihilus was basically living Force Energy, and also a Force Siphon. His continued survival depended on him draining large portions of Force Energy. This made him immortal as long as he could find energy to sustain him. And keep in mind immortal doesn't mean you can't be killed, it means you can't die.

proof is in the pudding. I won several different debates about that in other forums. Drain force doesnt give you immortality. The only way he can live so long is by midichlorian manipulation. Think about it, plagueis wanted mastery over midichlorians because that was the only way for eternal life

Originally posted by darthshade
I see why you would believe that. But let me tell you where your wrong. Nihilus did the same thing yet he never gained immortality. I beleive it was his midi manipulation that gave him immortality
Nihilus' darkside power was too destructive, life energy was sustaining him but it wasn't enough. Same thing was happening with Palpatine. At least in wookieepedia it says that he sustained himself by draining life of billions from Byss, that entire planet was under his spell. In terms of Vitiate it was ritual that allowed him to consume enough energy to become immortal.

That's a very big imho for a hybrid Jedi with only game lightsaber feats.

Nihilus was forced to put his spirit into his armor/mask because his condition was affecting his body so badly. After that the only thing that sustained him was his hunger ironically. He had to feed to remain alive(if you can call it that), and basically became a slave to his hunger. He was a different case from normal force drain, as he drained entire force sensitive planets at a time.

Play KOTOR 2 again, and read the books.

Proof is in the pudding.

i will need proof of a quote before i even think about considering it canon

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Nihilus

There ya go. Quotes out the wazoo.

I can link Vitiate's page if you don't believe me about his Sith Magic Ritual that allowed him immortality.

i do not consider wookieepedia canon anymore..i need a quote wich says force drains inhances ones life

Imagine Kallig absorbing Vitiate's spirit when he's on his way to a new body. 0-0

Originally posted by darthshade
i do not consider wookieepedia canon anymore..i need a quote wich says force drains inhances ones life

I don't know why. It's the biggest and most accurate source of star wars info out there. And I told you that Nihilus was a special case. As a spirit contained in his mask and armor, he was forced to steal the force energy of entire planets to sustain himself since he couldn't actually eat real food, and had to eat force energy. He's like Galactus or Unicron. Immortal in the sense that he can't die as long as he continues to feed, but not unable to die.

*facepalm

wookieepia can be edited by anybody.......i need a quote that says it..nihilus didnt live as long as vitiate because he did not learn midichlorian manipulation vitiate is the only force user to use his midis

proof is in the pudding

There are plenty of examples on wookieepedia that I will never consider canon, yet, a lot of staff is described as it is in books and it is still better, than naked speculation like "I beleive it was his midi manipulation that gave him immortality".

Nihilus wasn't "alive" in the traditional sense. He was a spirit bound to his mask who "ate" force energy to stay in this world. That much is explained in the game.

And Vitiate didn't use midichlorian manipulation. He used Sith Magic to drain the Force Essence of his home planet and all it's inhabitants, and transfer it to himself, turning him immortal.

you guys keep saying the same thing but im not seeing any quotes for your asserions guys.

if force drain give immortality then why did not palpatine or nihilus get immortality?vitiate was the ony sith to be immortal....and plagueis was obsessed with immortality and sought to master the midis, i didnt see him trying to drain anybody

im just being logical

Read the comics and books with Vitiate in them. Play the game.

He didn't simply use the force technique force drain. He used ancient sith magic to drain the force from an entire planet and it's people, then transferred it into his being, making him immortal. He killed all the Sith Lords and everybody on Nathema and left it lifeless.

I'm not making this up. Just read the books and comics. I'm not gonna go searching for quotes and panels when it's proven canon and even mentioned in The Old Republic MMO.

Originally posted by KingD19
I'm not gonna go searching for quotes and panels

If you made a claim, you are obligated by the common law of Man and Beast to do so, regardless of whatever tedium or difficulty you may face in procuring the evidence you seek.

Audio Book excerpt from Star Wars TOR : Revan

Scourge correctly assuming that Vitiate was "feeding" on the life energy of the people he absorbed on Nathema from the Sith Magic Ritual to make himself immortal. He also had enough power to bestow immortality upon Scourge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PEC31qqK93g#t=165s

Originally posted by darthshade
you guys keep saying the same thing but im not seeing any quotes for your asserions guys.

if force drain give immortality then why did not palpatine or nihilus get immortality?vitiate was the ony sith to be immortal....and plagueis was obsessed with immortality and sought to master the midis, i didnt see him trying to drain anybody

im just being logical
Well, they prolonged their life. Nihilus' entity like broken cell phone was burning energy too fast. Palpatine's power, also, was too destructive to be contained in his body. It's just Vitiate came up with arcane ritual that allowed him to consume life on much bigger scale.

Originally posted by Herbert Spencer
If you made a claim, you are obligated by the common law of Man and Beast to do so, regardless of whatever tedium or difficulty you may face in procuring the evidence you seek.

Victory condition of the internet: endure more tedium more consistently than the opposition.

lol

Team II has advantage.

One is this:

Originally posted by axel_jovan
This is RotS Sidious.

Another one is this:

Vitiate can create illusions with the Force to distract his opponents.

Team II has greater chance to succeed.

Originally posted by darthshade
I won several different debates about that in other forums.


I wonder who gives a damn about your claim to nonexistant fame.



Ah. And your proof for that statement would be where exactly?
You see. I don't want to contradict that idea exacty, because I have no hard evidence myself, but the notion, that Nihilus would continue consuming force energies until all live in the Galaxy had vanished - uttered multiple times during KotoR II - would indicate, that his life would be prolonged to a certain extend in order to make that happen. I doubt he could have visited / drained all 12 million inhabited star systems in the SW Galaxy in the lifetime of a regular human. Even if he can drain a complete system and travel to the next one in one hour, it would still take more than 1300 years to get the job done...



Given our rather limited understanding of the power of the Force, I'm under the impression once again, that you're making absolute statements, where they shouldn't be made. We have no idea, how exactly the Ancient Sith lords did prolong their lifespans. We can just speculate, what they did exactly. Yet we have seen that Simus was capable of surviving as a freaking head in a jar, and I don't seem him doing much midichlorian manipulation in that shape. Also, if one sees "life" as a process of production / consumation of energy, it seems to be reasonable that somebody who gets a huge boost of (life) energy by draining an entire planet, would have his lifetime extended by such an action.



Apparently he had mastery over midichlorians, yet was still not able to live forever. Neither was Sidious. And how would Plagueis know, what said mastery over midichlorians would allow him to do, provided that nobody has ever made it as far in the field as he himself?

@KingD19


The biggest and most accurate source of Star Wars info out there would be the actual source material. Everybody can edit Wookiepedia articles. There was a time around here, where we demonstrated that fact rather persuasively, by generating an own (SW) character page for every active member of the SW versus forum.

Wookiepedia is a nice help, if you want to get some information on a SW topic you have never dealt with before but it certainly can't act as substitute for the lecture of the actual source material - especially not in context of arguing in a SW versus forum with a bunch of SW nerds.

Nihilus didn't even have a physical body in Kotor II. His power consumed him and he was forced to possess his armor. So I guess it did make him immortal in a sense.