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http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/Galen_Marek__The_Force_by_Melciah1791.jpg
Versus
http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/Luke-dark-1.jpg


Setting:http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/Geonosis_arena.jpg


Peak Galen Marek and DE Luke are whisked away to do battle, in the Geonosis Arena.

Both want each other dead, very badly.

Morals off; Bloodlust on.


1. Sabers

2. Force

3. All out.

Who survives?

Luke appears to be a hunchback with T-Rex arms, so Marek wins.

A Krogan?

No, he's lacking a quad.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Luke appears to be a hunchback with T-Rex arms, so Marek wins.



LOL!!! That's what I thought!

I can't think of a worse EU picture at the moment. We ought to hold a contest.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
No, he's lacking a quad.


LOL. That too.

A very feminine lower body, indeed. doh

edge to Galen here though. Luke in a sabers only.

Originally posted by truejedi
edge to Galen here though. Luke in a sabers only.


Didn't he lose to a (RotS)-skilled Sidious in dueling, without Leia?

I'd give RotS Sidious a solid win against Marek in lightsabers.

They were both masters of Juyo, I believe. The skill difference may be negligible.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'd give RotS Sidious a solid win against Marek in lightsabers.


Really?

Originally posted by Herbert Spencer
They were both masters of Juyo, I believe. The skill difference may be negligible.



As well as (Leia-less) Luke lost pretty badly to Sidious as well.

So it might put Luke and Marek on even terms with each other, in the swordsmanship department.

Marek hasn't displayed anything on the level of speedblitzing 3 Jedi Masters in a few seconds.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
As well as (Leia-less) Luke lost pretty badly to Sidious as well.

So it might put Luke and Marek on even terms with each other, in the swordsmanship department.

I meant that Marek and the Emperor were both masters of Juyo, not Luke.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Marek hasn't displayed anything on the level of speedblitzing 3 Jedi Masters in a few seconds.



You know, I never played TFU games.

When they came out, I rolled my eyes and felt sick, after watching the Game Creator's interviews on G4 TV. I didn't want to play a worthless, meaningless game built around a ill-conceived Gary Sue.

But I always hear about how powerful he is.

Well so is Nihilus but he's done nothing with a lightsaber.

Understandable, but anyone who's played the games would (or should) tell you that Marek isn't nearly as powerful as the uninformed portray him to be. Certainly he demonstrates remarkable powers, but Vader gives him fits and the Emperor is out of his league. Not to mention, per the novelization, he struggles with Kota, Shaak Ti, Kazdan Paratus, and even a random Shadow Guard.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well so is Nihilus but he's done nothing with a lightsaber.



N was at least interesting. With an original backstory and a better reason for existing.

It is too bad we never saw him in more fights though, where we could get a chance to see his lightsaber prowess.

Originally posted by Herbert Spencer
Understandable, but anyone who's played the games would (or should) tell you that Marek isn't nearly as powerful as the uninformed portray him to be. Certainly he demonstrates remarkable powers, but Vader gives him fits and the Emperor is out of his league. Not to mention, per the novelization, he struggles with Kota, Shaak Ti, Kazdan Paratus, and even a random Shadow Guard.


Well, he's pretty much beaten Revan in the other thread .. for some reason.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Well, he's pretty much beaten Revan in the other thread .. for some reason.

These aren't mutually exclusive. Potentially beating Revan doesn't make Marek a Gary Stu, it just means Revan isn't godlike.

Even Superman has trouble with the occasional giant robot. I see it as explainable in that often in those cases Marek has just fought through a horde of mooks and is feeling it.

Though in the novel Marek freaking schools Paratus in about a page or 2.

Originally posted by Herbert Spencer
These aren't mutually exclusive. Potentially beating Revan doesn't make Marek a Gary Stu, it just means Revan isn't godlike.

I think honestly, Marek would likely be a Gary Stu, no matter who he defeated. It's just part of what little of who he is.

But I meant that despite all the people that can give Marek the fits, a seemingly more powerful opponant than them, Revan, can't seem to do much to him.

Revan doesn't have the feats to compare with Marek, though that doesn't necessarily mean he's weaker. People simply based their perceptions on Revan after hearing he's "the heart of the Force" one too many times.

After thinking about it, I see Marek having a considerable advantage over Luke with the Force.

And I don't see Luke's swordsmanship going anywhere beyond Marek's.

I think they're even in everything but the Force, which Marek surpasses by a little bit.

Thoughts?

Marek toasting armies of robots, and then atsts with lightning. tearing down a sky elevator with the force... wtf-pawning entire armies of stormtroopers. just the trailer for TFU II....

Originally posted by truejedi
Marek toasting armies of robots, and then atsts with lightning. tearing down a sky elevator with the force... wtf-pawning entire armies of stormtroopers. just the trailer for TFU II....



Yeah, considerably beyond Luke, as of DE.

Originally posted by Herbert Spencer
I meant that Marek and the Emperor were both masters of Juyo, not Luke.

The only time in the novel I remember Marek being called a "Master" of Juyo was in his vision of the dark side ending.

Originally posted by Herbert Spencer
Not to mention, per the novelization, he struggles with Kota, Shaak Ti, Kazdan Paratus, and even a random Shadow Guard.

Nah. If by struggle you mean he had to put in some effort to get the job done, then sure.

But the only one I remember him seriously struggling with was Shaaki Ti.

If not for his superior Force TK she could have killed him but only via a suicide attack. And that was his last fight before he became more powerful IIRC.

Yeah but if Shaak Ti gives him trouble imagine what Maul/Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan would do to him...

Originally posted by Padawan Obi-Wan
Yeah but if Shaak Ti gives him trouble imagine what Maul/Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan would do to him...

She's a Council Member. I honestly don't see Obi-Wan "Stomping" any Council member. Defeating, yes. But not stomping. And I can imagine her hitting Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan via a suicide attack.

And I think it was pretty clear Shaaki Ti was more powerful than in her PT days.

And again that was before Galen's first power up. He had at least 3 instances after that fight where he reached a connection with the Force beyond anything he achieved previously.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
She's a Council Member. I honestly don't see Obi-Wan "Stomping" any Council member. Defeating, yes. But not stomping. And I can imagine her hitting Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan via a suicide attack.

And I think it was pretty clear Shaaki Ti was more powerful than in her PT days.

And again that was before Galen's first power up. He had at least 3 instances after that fight where he reached a connection with the Force beyond anything he achieved previously.



Where does that leave Galen versus Leia(less) Luke?

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Where does that leave Galen versus Leia(less) Luke?

You and your "Leia(less)" Luke

Well if we take the Dark side ending of TFU, and see how quickly Galen went down to Sidious and compare it to the fight Luke put up against DE Sidious on Byss, then I would be inclined to say Luke.

However there was Galen tanking all Sids Lightning which I doubt Luke could do(without a Lightsaber).

Although Luke did manage to Force push Sids. (And no I don't think him being surprised is an excuse considering he knew Luke was actively trying to kill him)..

But apart from that Luke's best Force TK feat was bringing down the already crippled Walker. Whilst Galen was bringing down Walkers with the Force alone (a combination of Lightning and TK)..

So:

Sabers: I say Luke
Force: Galen

All Out: Oooh difficult.

Edge to Luke.. Maybe

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You and your "Leia(less)" Luke

Well if we take the Dark side ending of TFU, and see how quickly Galen went down to Sidious and compare it to the fight Luke put up against DE Sidious on Byss, then I would be inclined to say Luke.

However there was Galen tanking all Sids Lightning which I doubt Luke could do(without a Lightsaber).

Although Luke did manage to Force push Sids. (And no I don't think him being surprised is an excuse considering he knew Luke was actively trying to kill him)..

But apart from that Luke's best Force TK feat was bringing down the already crippled Walker. Whilst Galen was bringing down Walkers with the Force alone (a combination of Lightning and TK)..

So:

Sabers: I say Luke
Force: Galen

All Out: Oooh difficult.



http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/ty70r.gif

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Where does that leave Galen versus Leia(less) Luke?
It's funny how you keep trying to mitigate his capabilities relying on a single comic image. If you listen to audio book, it will show more about Lea's emotional state and how she participated during fight.
With or without Lea it doesn't matter really. Because it's not like Galen will corrupt Luke and make him learn Sith teachings with subsequent mind domination. It would be simply a fight, where Galen will rely only on his sheer power and skill. Although, Luke after defeating Emperor gained a lot of confidence, which is evidenced through out Empire's End, where it went to the point that he wasn't even scared to arrest Palpatine. So Luke after Emperor fight is stronger(Lea'less).


Marek surpasses in the Force Luke by a lot. Vader trained him to abuse Force down to its limits. Luke did test his limits before and during Dark Emprie but not as much. Luke did exhausting exercises only towards the end of NJO, where he was making ship illusion realistic enough to trick all sensors and scanners and hiding at the same time real ship. In other words it is common for a Sith to be more powerful, than Jedi.

As for lightsabers obviously Marek was more skilled, yet, Luke was better fighter, his talent allowed him utilize his smaller skill more effectively.


Imho Luke's best feat at that time was, when he was falling from sky on Datomir. He slowed himself so much that landed like a feather at the same time slowing down a star fighter to land it like a feather as well. While other powerful Force users in history were either unable to slow down enough to survive or it was huge effort for them.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
After thinking about it, I see Marek having a considerable advantage over Luke with the Force.


Originally posted by Battlemaster
I think they're even in everything but the Force, which Marek surpasses by a little bit.


Discrepancy much?

You proceed from Marek has considerable advantage with the Force to Marek only surpasses Luke a little bit in the Force.

Make up your mind BM.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
She's a Council Member. I honestly don't see Obi-Wan "Stomping" any Council member. Defeating, yes. But not stomping. And I can imagine her hitting Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan via a suicide attack.

And I think it was pretty clear Shaaki Ti was more powerful than in her PT days.

And again that was before Galen's first power up. He had at least 3 instances after that fight where he reached a connection with the Force beyond anything he achieved previously.

And yet Shaak Ti gets destroyed by Griecous repeatedly, sometimes with the aid of other Jedi, yet Obi-Wan made Grievous look amateur. The likes of Obi-Wan, Anakin, Qui-Gon, Yoda, Dooku and Maul are far beyond people like Shaak Ti and Ki Adi Mundi.

Originally posted by Padawan Obi-Wan
And yet Shaak Ti gets destroyed by Griecous repeatedly, sometimes with the aid of other Jedi, yet Obi-Wan made Grievous look amateur. The likes of Obi-Wan, Anakin, Qui-Gon, Yoda, Dooku and Maul are far beyond people like Shaak Ti and Ki Adi Mundi.

Read my post again paying special attention to the underlined parts:

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
She's a Council Member. I honestly don't see Obi-Wan "Stomping" any Council member. Defeating, yes. But not stomping. And I can imagine her hitting Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan via a suicide attack.

And I think it was pretty clear Shaaki Ti was more powerful than in her PT days.

And again that was before Galen's first power up. He had at least 3 instances after that fight where he reached a connection with the Force beyond anything he achieved previously.


FYI Grievous has been tremendously toned down in power in the new more canon show. It seems like he can not take any Council member in an all out fight any more.

As for a Saber only battle Obi-Wan's Lightsaber form was said to be best suited to tackle Grievous according to Mace Windu in the ROTS novelization.

There is no proof that Shaak Ti was more powerful and Galen still does not become powerful enough to challenge vader of tge Rmporer. Grievous' entry in Clone Wardcartoon still counts do not try tot ake way form Obi-Wan's victory.btw sorry for speling mistakes i am typing with just one hand.

Originally posted by Padawan Obi-Wan
There is no proof that Shaak Ti was more powerful and Galen still does not become powerful enough to challenge vader of tge Rmporer. Grievous' entry in Clone Wardcartoon still counts do not try tot ake way form Obi-Wan's victory.btw sorry for speling mistakes i am typing with just one hand.

You jacking it to my glorious visage?

Originally posted by Padawan Obi-Wan
There is no proof that Shaak Ti was more powerful

Her infulence on Felucia was so great that the planet was in disarray after her death. She was keeping balance to the Force there..

And she was also controlling the Sarlaac as well as deflecting Starkiller's forced attacks.

So she was clearly more powerful there and then, than what we saw of her in the PT era.



Originally posted by Padawan Obi-Wan
and Galen still does not become powerful enough to challenge vader of tge Rmporer.

Actually that's exactly how powerful he became.

Originally posted by Padawan Obi-Wan
Grievous' entry in Clone Wardcartoon still counts do not try tot ake way form Obi-Wan's victory.

I don't need to. The new more canon show has done that without any help from me. Everyone GG has faced on the council has seemed to be his superior.

Dooku tells him it would be a real accomplishment for him to defeat a true Jedi Master (which he could not claim he had done yet).

On top of that Kit Fisto and Ventress have both defeated (or was shown to be defeating) Grievous in a pure saber duel. I.E. without the use of Force Tk even.

Grievous is much better than Assaj Ventress. He defeated Assasj and Durge at the same time, Assaj who could defeat Kit Fisto and Durge who defeated Kit Fistp and Plo Koon at the same time.

Originally posted by Padawan Obi-Wan
Grievous is much better than Assaj Ventress. He defeated Assasj and Durge at the same time, Assaj who could defeat Kit Fisto and Durge who defeated Kit Fistp and Plo Koon at the same time.

Wrong! That was in C-Canon material.

The T-Canon show (a higher canon which over rules the lower canon when there is a contradiction) showed Ventress defeating Grievous just in Sabers without even using Force TK.

Grievous isn't the powerhouse who can easily defeat Jedi Masters and take on 5 Jedi at once anymore. Accept the truth young one.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Wrong! That was in C-Canon material.

The T-Canon show (a higher canon which over rules the lower canon when there is a contradiction) showed Ventress defeating Grievous just in Sabers without even using Force TK.

Grievous isn't the powerhouse who can easily defeat Jedi Masters and take on 5 Jedi at once anymore. Accept the truth young one.

Grievous was playing with her, I recall him ending up winning that confrontation with a little droid help.

Grievous, pfff. Boba Fett pawns everyone but Han Solo!

Grievous defeated 4 Jedi at once in LOE. That is more canon than a cartoon, I believe. He is still the powerhouse. A poor showing in a more canon setting does not rule out a good showing in a lower canon setting (unless it is LITERALLY ruled out, such as Ki-Adi-Mundi saying "I wish I could fight grievous, like I never have done yet, ever." (Which come to think of it, still doesn't rule it out, because the cartoon timelines are all jank.)) So yeah, inconsistency does not undo top feats. Luke is all over the board, but we don't say he isn't powerful.

K guys

Who's up for a debate??

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Grievous was playing with her, I recall him ending up winning that confrontation with a little droid help.

No he wasn't playing with her.

She challenged him to honorable combat (probably why she didn't even use any Force TK on him) to decide the battle.

He won by ordering the droids to fire on her after he lost the duel to her.

Grievous is a coward and a cheat. That's just how he rolls.

He's no match for Ventress in a one on one fair fight.

Originally posted by truejedi
Grievous defeated 4 Jedi at once in LOE. That is more canon than a cartoon, I believe.

Sorry TJ, but it's not. LOE is C-Canon. The CW series is T-Canon.

And wasn't it LOE where Dooku warned GG that he wouldn't be a match for Council members without surprise and fear on his side??

Originally posted by truejedi
He is still the powerhouse. A poor showing in a more canon setting does not rule out a good showing in a lower canon setting (unless it is LITERALLY ruled out, such as Ki-Adi-Mundi saying "I wish I could fight grievous, like I never have done yet, ever." (Which come to think of it, still doesn't rule it out, because the cartoon timelines are all jank.)) So yeah, inconsistency does not undo top feats. Luke is all over the board, but we don't say he isn't powerful.

Yeah but the fact is you can't just accept GG's feat of beating Ventress and ignore Ventress's feat of defeating GG without even the use of any Force TK, and in a more canon setting.

It's not about lowballing, because in your scenario your lowballing Ventress. It's about inconsistencies between higher and lower canon, in which case we're supposed to take the higher canon.

And I believe Leeland Chee said once, when it comes to power levels, the closer they are to the movie (in canon) the closer it is to the truth.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No he wasn't playing with her.

She challenged him to honorable combat (probably why she didn't even use any Force TK on him) to decide the battle.

He won by ordering the droids to fire on her after he lost the duel to her.

Grievous is a coward and a cheat. That's just how he rolls.
He's no match for Ventress in a one on one fair fight.
Because Grievous losing one arm means he lost amirite. In fact 2 armed Grievous pwns Ventress


2 versions of that quote.
"I pity you should you have to face off against any of the Council members. Must I demonstrate what would happen should you fight Obi-Wan Kenobi or Cin Drallig, Mace Windu, or stars help you, Yoda?"
"I pity you should you have to face off against any of the Council members. Must I demonstrate what would happen should you fight Obi-Wan Kenobi or Shaak Ti, Mace Windu, or stars help you, Yoda?"

But then we have him handing Shaak Ti's ass to her on a platter, and out dueling Kenobi on Kamino.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER




Yeah but the fact is you can't just accept GG's feat of beating Ventress and ignore Ventress's feat of defeating GG without even the use of any Force TK, and in a more canon setting.

.

wait, what? It is completely possible for someone to beat ventress once, and lose to her the next time. Ventress was getting quite a bit better. This doesn't weaken Grievous, it strengthens Ventress.

Originally posted by truejedi
wait, what? It is completely possible for someone to beat ventress once, and lose to her the next time. Ventress was getting quite a bit better. This doesn't weaken Grievous, it strengthens Ventress.

Yeah thats possible. Sidious didn't care about her before, but then wanted her murdered as he sensed her power grow.

As long as we accept Ventress is better now. Even just in Sabers. So says T-Canon.