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Uchiha Madara (Rinninengan + Mokuton) , Uchiha Itachi, and Uchiha Sasuke (EMS) vs the 5 Hokages. Who takes it?

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VS

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Who wins?

Lesse, Hashirama was stronger than Madara before his upgrade, but Madara should have the edge now. Minato and Itachi are pretty even and up for debate. Tobirama's supposed to be pretty badass and he has Edo and ST Jutsu so I'd suspect he's at least close to Sasuke, and then you have have Sarutobi and Tsunade to make up for any differences, with Tsunade bringing susano'o busting taijutsu and healbotting anyone who needs it, and Sarutobi being generally annoying and coming up with just the right jutsu at the right time.

So I give it to the Hokages.

Tobirama's suckiness brings the entire team down to shit-tier.

Hashirama was stronger than Madara before his upgrade and Hashirama will obviously have better mastery over Mukotan. Hashirama can also heal bot himself, unlike Madara.


Minato can solo any one of these individuals without much trouble from anyone except for Madara but he'll have his hands full with 3 to deal with so the team is required.


Itachi will pose a problem with his genjutsu but Hiruzen and Minato will not fall prey to it.

Tsunade may not fall prey to it since her chakra control is arguably the best in the Naruto-verse (making it far easier to dispel genjtusu). Tsunade can spam healing, as well. Tsunade also has a giant heal-bot summon she can use, as well. Tsunade is also strong enough to break Susano'o.


Tobirama is not as strong as Hashirama but he seems to be smarter and more original than hashirama because he invented two crazy awesome Jutsus: Teleporting and ET. Tobirama has to be close to Hashirama in strength, but not as close as Madara, imo. So he poses a threat to only Sasuke, imo. He may be the first to die.

Hiruzen, imo, should be enough for one on one with Sasuke. If you put Tobirama and Hiruzen on Sasuke and the rest on Madara and Itachi, the match will end in Team Hokage's favor.



Sasuke can be ended quickly by Tobirama and Hiruzen...mostly because they have worked together in the past in massive military campaigns. Itachi and Sasuke have worked in the past but they do not function like a squad...more like two brothers trying to catch up on old times.


Madara is the biggest threat but because he is a meatbag, he can go down with a single punch. Keep in mind that if Madara wasn't an ET Body, he would have already bitten the dust, twice, against Team Kage: once from that massive attack from Old Man Back Aches and once from Tsunade.


Madara seems to suffer from "I do not know exactly what powers I should use next" syndrome.


Minato can easily put a seal on Madara as Madara is NOT Tobi: he will not be able to slip away from Minato like Tobi could. This matchup would be better if we knew how good Tobirama was with his telporting jutsu. If he was as good as Minato's phase 1 (phase 2 is absurd) porting, Tobirama may very well be the third strongest person on this team.



Going by cannon, technically, Hiruzen is the strongest one we have here on team Hokage (if we used Hiruzen prime).

Madara is the strongest person in this thread but if they worked together, Hashirama and Minato should be able to take him. Tsunade and Hiruzen take on Sasuke together(they should do fine) while Tobirama becomes a meat bag for Itachi to kill.

This thread very much depends on how fast they can kill Madara. If they waste even a second, Itachi will shit stomp Tobirama and the Uchiha will win.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Madara is the strongest person in this thread but if they worked together, Hashirama and Minato should be able to take him. Tsunade and Hiruzen take on Sasuke together(they should do fine) while Tobirama becomes a meat bag for Itachi to kill.

This thread very much depends on how fast they can kill Madara. If they waste even a second, Itachi will shit stomp Tobirama and the Uchiha will win.

Maybe put Minato against Itachi and Tobirama helping out his bro? Presumably those two have worked together more, and Minato's a closer match for Itachi.

Considered that. But I have no idea how Tobirama's space time techs compare to Minato's but Madara certainly does know, since they've probably fought before. The two might work well together but Madara would also know what each could do, while Minato adds an element of surprise to the equation.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Madara is the strongest person in this thread but if they worked together, Hashirama and Minato should be able to take him. Tsunade and Hiruzen take on Sasuke together(they should do fine) while Tobirama becomes a meat bag for Itachi to kill.

This thread very much depends on how fast they can kill Madara. If they waste even a second, Itachi will shit stomp Tobirama and the Uchiha will win.

Minato can solo Madara or Sasuke. In fact, he could probably take out Sasuke in a blink and move on to Madara in the same movement.




Keep in mind that Minato took on both A and B at the same time and literally was pwning them both. Sasuke goes down like a punk to someone like B. Against Minato? Sasuke would never lose as badly in his life.

Younger A & B, and B managed to get him into a mutual-kill position.

The presence of susano'os all around also makes quick-kills by Minato difficult, even when he is stronger than his foe.



I think in this case, the teamwork, and the having the stronger Minato available for something else, matters more than the surprise.

28 Susano'os on the field would f*** their day up big time.


Anyway, the 5 Hokages would probably have much better team-work than the Uchihas would, so I too give it to the Hokages...
Unless Itachi uses Kotoamatsukami/Tsukuyomi on Hiruzen, Minato or Hashirama, or Sasuke uses Kirin; in which case, the Uchiha win. awesome

Well I think Madara,Itachi and Sasuke could easily kill the 3 and 5 hokage.And the other hokages would die to the 2 susano's and nine tailed fox with sharingan. The end.

Madara is disgraced at the current state of the Uchiha and summons several meteors to commit suicide with everyone. Minato is the only one to escape because he has hax.

So Kage win.

Originally posted by tfish
Well I think Madara,Itachi and Sasuke could easily kill the 3 and 5 hokage.And the other hokages would die to the 2 susano's and nine tailed fox with sharingan. The end.

Problem: Trying to take out the 'weakest' Hokage quickly means not paying enough attention to the other 3. It's a sure way to get ganked. Heck, considering how hard to kill Tsunade and that Sarutobi has his adamantine staff summon, I'd say that's a great way for the Hokage to win. "Yes, let us ignore Minato and Hashirama and go for the tank!"

Also who said the Uchiha get the 9-tail? It's not in the op, and if it was there Hashirama would yoink it again.

OUCH Q99 that hurt,But considering the fact that tsunade couldn't kill pein and considering the fact Sarutobi couldn't kill Orochimaru it might not be that hard sense Sasuke Itachi and Madara are stronger than Orochimaru and Madara is stronger than Pein wouldn't you think that would kind of cause a small problem for the 5 hokages

Originally posted by tfish
OUCH Q99 that hurt,But considering the fact that tsunade couldn't kill pein and considering the fact Sarutobi couldn't kill Orochimaru it might not be that hard sense Sasuke Itachi and Madara are stronger than Orochimaru and Madara is stronger than Pein wouldn't you think that would kind of cause a small problem for the 5 hokages

And there's 5 Kage to 3 Uchiha, Hashirama's slightly more uber than non-rinnegan Madara, Minato's stronger than Orochimaru, and we've seeing Tsunade against Madara in recent chapters. She's damn tough.

Huh,guess you and the 5 hokages win then.

idk i kinda think its alot tougher fight for the uchiha than some might think because people are underestimating the 3rd hokage. he was a extremley dangerous ninja and should not be taken light.. note that even at his old age he was able to take on 2 hokage and oro at the same time... Even oro said had the third been in his prime he and the other kage would have lost.

The problem with Madara, is his "immortality" makes it impossible to tell how tough he naturally is...

Personally, I think even when he was alive, he could have survived Tsunade's attacks, given that his immortal body didn't show any visible damage (And the immortals do sustain damage to powerful attacks.)

Originally posted by cdtm

Personally, I think even when he was alive, he could have survived Tsunade's attacks, given that his immortal body didn't show any visible damage (And the immortals do sustain damage to powerful attacks.)

She punched a giant hole right through the wood clone.

Tsunade's never hit the real him, only his susano'o.

Originally posted by Q99
She punched a giant hole right through the wood clone.

Tsunade's never hit the real him, only his susano'o.

*Checks*

>_< Heh, they even mention the wood clone, by way of taunting Madara..

Team Hokage should win than.. The only question left for me, is the giant sized Susano'o. If that hits the battlefield, I'm not sure even Tsuande can break it.

Originally posted by cdtm

Team Hokage should win than.. The only question left for me, is the giant sized Susanoo. If that hits the battlefield, I'm not sure even Tsuande can break it.

Apparently Hashirama's fought against it, though.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Tobirama's suckiness brings the entire team down to shit-tier.
But he's known as the god among shinobi and the only one who've been titled the professor and the strongest hokage who've ever lived.

Originally posted by Astner
But he's known as the god among shinobi and the only one who've been titled the professor and the strongest hokage who've ever lived.

Tobirama is? I think you mean Hiruzen.

Which really, both of them are weaker than either Sasuke or Itachi based purely on showings. If Team Hokage wins, it will be because of Hashirama and Minato.

Originally posted by Astner
But he's known as the god among shinobi and the only one who've been titled the professor and the strongest hokage who've ever lived. i thought that title belonged to Sarutobi.

Thats Hiruzen.

Edit: N-N-Ninja'd!

Sniped two of you bastards. 313

son of a...

8iiiiiiiitch!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Tobirama is? I think you mean Hiruzen.
Right, I always get those two confused. Perhaps because I associate Tobi to competence?

Sasgay was blitzed by Bee (A too, iirc) and Minato is faster than both of them, and everyone on the field in this fight... it's likely that he would take out at least of them right off the bat (probably Sasgay)

Sasuke was blitzed by Bee due to a surprise attack. When they met head on, Sasuke managed to dodge. Minato is the fastest fighter present of course if FTG is in play but quite frankly he'll be needed against Madara or Itachi.

Hashirama+Tobirama take madara.
Minato solos sasuke/
Tsunade and hiruzen fight itachi until they either defeat him or minato makes it there after he finishes sasuke and quickly finishes itachi with them. Then all five take madara who will already be pretty exhausted and beat him.
Team kage ftw.

Originally posted by Q99
Apparently Hashirama's fought against it, though.

We don't know if he'd be able to save the others in time though.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Hashirama+Tobirama take madara.
Minato solos sasuke/
Tsunade and hiruzen fight itachi until they either defeat him or minato makes it there after he finishes sasuke and quickly finishes itachi with them. Then all five take madara who will already be pretty exhausted and beat him.
Team kage ftw.
Madara and Itachi protect Sasuke who builds up Kirin and then uses it to solo the field.
Team Uchiha ftw.

Why would they need Kirin when Madara can just go Final Susano'o and do much more damage much quicker?

Hiruzen (and Minato) can take one for the team and use that Soul demon technique to give the Kage's the win.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Why would they need Kirin when Madara can just go Final Susano'o and do much more damage much quicker?

Same reason "Hashirama+Tobirama take madara, Minato solos sasuke, while
Tsunade and hiruzen fight itachi until they either defeat him or minato makes it there after he finishes sasuke and quickly finishes itachi with them. Then all five take madara who will already be pretty exhausted and beat him."

Originally posted by marwash22
Hiruzen (and Minato) can take one for the team and use that Soul demon technique to give the Kage's the win.

Hiruzen would get one-shotted by Sasuke.

Minato space-time redirects Kirin.

Originally posted by tfish
OUCH Q99 that hurt,But considering the fact that tsunade couldn't kill pein and considering the fact Sarutobi couldn't kill Orochimaru it might not be that hard sense Sasuke Itachi and Madara are stronger than Orochimaru and Madara is stronger than Pein wouldn't you think that would kind of cause a small problem for the 5 hokages

Sasuke only won the fight against Orochimaru because Orochimaru couldn't use his arms and Sasuke sneak attacked him. Orochimaru was also ill at the time and couldn't even move that well. Orochimaru is easily superior to 4 tailed Naruto, he beat him without being able to use jutsu. So I think Sasuke is weaker than Orochimaru which puts him far below Sarutobi.

Originally posted by Q99
Minato space-time redirects Kirin.

Sasuke redirects his redirected Kirin.

Originally posted by keiji
Sasuke only won the fight against Orochimaru because Orochimaru couldn't use his arms and Sasuke sneak attacked him. Orochimaru was also ill at the time and couldn't even move that well. Orochimaru is easily superior to 4 tailed Naruto, he beat him without being able to use jutsu. So I think Sasuke is weaker than Orochimaru which puts him far below Sarutobi.

Current Sasuke is quite a good deal more powerful than the Sasuke that 'beat' Orochimaru though.
Also, I'm not sure what 4-Tailed Naruto has to do with this, but Orochimaru did use jutsu in their fight.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Hiruzen would get one-shotted by Sasuke. not sure if serious.

Originally posted by marwash22
not sure if serious.
Not completely, no.




He'd get two-shotted. biscuits

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Tobirama is? I think you mean Hiruzen.

Which really, both of them are weaker than either Sasuke or Itachi based purely on showings. If Team Hokage wins, it will be because of Hashirama and Minato.

I agree. With a little Tsunade to heal them up as they kick ass.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Sasuke redirects his redirected Kirin.

What? Minato redirects it behind Sasuke and fries him.

Originally posted by socool8520
What? Minato redirects it behind Sasuke and fries him.

Naw, Sasuke would just redirect it back at Minato's hairy balls, and would turn him into Naruto.

~ Since I think you are being serious here (I wasn't being serious), Kirin is going to be much faster than Minato every single time. There's no way Minato will be able to redirect it unless he starts the tech far in advance. Sasuke can also control the direction of the attack, so it's not like he has to send it straight at Minato.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
We don't know if he'd be able to save the others in time though.


Madara and Itachi protect Sasuke who builds up Kirin and then uses it to solo the field.
Team Uchiha ftw.





How will they protect sasuke when they have to protect themselves? And minato can use space time barrier to warp kirin away or back at team uchiha.

Gunbai Shield, 25+ Susano'os, Yata Mirror, Amaterasu, Giant Trees, Hawk Summons, and so on and so forth.

No, he can't; not unless he has the barrier tech prepped before Sasuke launches Kirin.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Gunbai Shield, 25+ Susano'os, Yata Mirror, Amaterasu, Giant Trees, Hawk Summons, and so on and so forth.

No, he can't; not unless he has the barrier tech prepped before Sasuke launches Kirin.

Hashirama has and can counter most of his abilites and even madara himself with his own new power is basically saying that hashi still has a chance to beat him. Hahsi beat him wehn he had the nine tails helping him I think he can still fight pretty good against current madara. Add tobirama and they can take him. Itachi with his chakra supply will have a hard time against tsunade nad hiruzen as tsunade won't go down easily and hiruzen had loads of jutsu. Sasuke then gets destroyed by minato.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Hashirama has and can counter most of his abilites and even madara himself with his own new power is basically saying that hashi still has a chance to beat him. Hahsi beat him wehn he had the nine tails helping him I think he can still fight pretty good against current madara. Add tobirama and they can take him. Itachi with his chakra supply will have a hard time against tsunade nad hiruzen as tsunade won't go down easily and hiruzen had loads of jutsu. Sasuke then gets destroyed by minato.

Nah, Sasuke uses Kirin to one-shot everyone on Team Hokage except for Hashirama. While Hashirama is busy trying to look half as cool as Sasuke, Itachi stabs Hashirama with the Totsuka blade, and Madara proceeds to take a quick shit on him. gg Team Hokage.

Itachi managed to protect himself from Kirin. You don't think some of the higher level Hokage's could manage?

Itachi had an anti-jutsu shield on his Susanoo and apparently lightning reaction time. Then again natural lightning in Naruto might be slower then real world lightning.

Originally posted by cdtm
Itachi managed to protect himself from Kirin. You don't think some of the higher level Hokage's could manage? Kay, since everyone thinks I'm being serious >__>, and I only intend to troll Rikudo, I'll answer your question:

Yes, Itachi protected himself with Yata Mirror and/or Susano'o.

I don't see what Hashirama could do to save himself from Kirin once Sasuke has sent it towards him.
Tobirama is a featless wonder.
Hiruzen and Tsunade would get vaporized.
Minato would have to teleport away from the area, or he could set up his space-time barrier a couple of seconds before Sasuke has directed Kirin. I highly doubt Minato is fast enough to set it up after Kirin has been fired.

In summary: Only Minato could manage, and that is by teleporting away with FTG, which so far, is the only technique that has demonstrated an activation speed on par with, if not better than, Susano'o's materialization speed. Minato on the other hand, is much slower than Kirin, therefore him porting away with FTG is dependent on him reacting in time to Kirin once it has been directed towards him by Sasuke.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Itachi had an anti-jutsu shield on his Susanoo and apparently lightning reaction time. Then again natural lightning in Naruto might be slower then real world lightning.

It is. Considerably so.

Though if you want to believe the databook, it is Lightspeed and therefore faster that real world lightning. As is Haku.

irrelevant.

Sasuke would never get the chance to use Kirin on account of him being dead.

Madara uses Rinne Tensei.

Haku should race Kizaru or Kuma to prove that.

So...Why Madara don't get meteors?

Kuma can move at lightspeed?

He gets them afaik, but without his ET body, he'd just own himself in the process and cause a stalemate or a victory for the Kages (as Minato can port away).

Only when porting. It's more like travel speed than combat speed.

Oh...well damn

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Naw, Sasuke would just redirect it back at Minato's hairy balls, and would turn him into Naruto.

~ Since I think you are being serious here (I wasn't being serious), Kirin is going to be much faster than Minato every single time. There's no way Minato will be able to redirect it unless he starts the tech far in advance. Sasuke can also control the direction of the attack, so it's not like he has to send it straight at Minato.

Well, it's not like Kirin doesn't take prep time. Unless of course there is a thunderstorm happening which would pretty much be spite. but anyways, it's not an immediate attack. There was the whole panel with the dragon forming, and then Sasuke directing it. That's plenty of time for Minato to hold out his kunai and form a seal like he did against the tailed beast ball. If Itachi can react to it, then I'm sure the fastest person in the manga can react to it.

Originally posted by socool8520
Well, it's not like Kirin doesn't take prep time. Unless of course there is a thunderstorm happening which would pretty much be spite. but anyways, it's not an immediate attack. There was the whole panel with the dragon forming, and then Sasuke directing it. That's plenty of time for Minato to hold out his kunai and form a seal like he did against the tailed beast ball. If Itachi can react to it, then I'm sure the fastest person in the manga can react to it.

That's the thing, we don't know if Itachi outright reacted to it, or only reacted because Sasuke explained the mechanics of the jutsu beforehand.

Still, if there is a Thunderstorm brewing, Minato probably won't take notice of it, as he'll have his hands full fighting the Uchiha.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
That's the thing, we don't know if Itachi outright reacted to it, or only reacted because Sasuke explained the mechanics of the jutsu beforehand.

Still, if there is a Thunderstorm brewing, Minato probably won't take notice of it, as he'll have his hands full fighting the Uchiha.

I believe the panel showed him reacting once the lightning had been redirected. Regardless, from what we have seen of Kirin, it takes a dragon form before Sasuke redirects it, which should give someone like Minato enough time to port or throw a seal up, since it seems to take no time at all for him to slap seals on anything. He did it Bee and Tobi without either of them noticing. Hell, it's plausible that Hash could throw up an earth shield or something. They are the only to I see stopping it though. hiruzen is old, Tsunade is slow, and IDK about Tobirama.

Tsunade could dig under ground, maybe, or punch up a massive pile of rubble as a shield....

Come to think of it, even rookie Naruto was digging tunnels underground on the fly, quicker than even Neji could see him.

Originally posted by socool8520
I believe the panel showed him reacting once the lightning had been redirected. Regardless, from what we have seen of Kirin, it takes a dragon form before Sasuke redirects it, which should give someone like Minato enough time to port or throw a seal up, since it seems to take no time at all for him to slap seals on anything. He did it Bee and Tobi without either of them noticing. Hell, it's plausible that Hash could throw up an earth shield or something. They are the only to I see stopping it though. hiruzen is old, Tsunade is slow, and IDK about Tobirama.

Eh, immediately after that Kirin appears in the sky (which I'm not sure if it did actually appear as Sasuke said he'd only be guiding it), Sasuke fires the technique off. I don't think that is enough time for Minato to set up his barrier.
He has to use handseals in order to set it up.
Kirin destroyed a hill. He'd have to throw up an Earth Shield much larger than the Mountain Sandwich Kitsuchi used to try and crush the Gedo Mazou.

Originally posted by cdtm
Tsunade could dig under ground, maybe, or punch up a massive pile of rubble as a shield....

Come to think of it, even rookie Naruto was digging tunnels underground on the fly, quicker than even Neji could see him.

Kirin completely destroyed a hill. They'd have to dig quite some distance in order to escape.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Eh, immediately after that Kirin appears in the sky (which I'm not sure if it did actually appear as Sasuke said he'd only be guiding it), Sasuke fires the technique off. I don't think that is enough time for Minato to set up his barrier.
He has to use handseals in order to set it up.
Kirin destroyed a hill. He'd have to throw up an Earth Shield much larger than the Mountain Sandwich Kitsuchi used to try and crush the Gedo Mazou.


Minato could create the hand seals, which doesn't seem to be but two (from what we see in the kurama feat) fatser than it would take for the dragon to form and be directed.

Also, a much, much weaker yamato created a waterfall relatively quickly. hashirama doing it faster isn't out of the question.

Originally posted by socool8520
Minato could create the hand seals, which doesn't seem to be but two (from what we see in the kurama feat) fatser than it would take for the dragon to form and be directed.

Also, a much, much weaker yamato created a waterfall relatively quickly. hashirama doing it faster isn't out of the question.

Not really. That's assuming a) he has his attention on the clouds and can deduce what is coming in time; and b) he's fast enough to weave the handseals before Kirin strikes him, which he isn't. Heck, Mifune is fast enough to stop someone from weaving handsigns for a ninjutsu. Kirin is much faster.

Doing it faster isn't out of the question at all. Doing it fast enough to prevent himself from being vaped is the question, and there's nothing in the manga to suggest he can. Not that a waterfall would do anything against Kirin.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Not really. That's assuming a) he has his attention on the clouds and can deduce what is coming in time; and b) he's fast enough to weave the handseals before Kirin strikes him, which he isn't. Heck, Mifune is fast enough to stop someone from weaving handsigns for a ninjutsu. Kirin is much faster.

Doing it faster isn't out of the question at all. Doing it fast enough to prevent himself from being vaped is the question, and there's nothing in the manga to suggest he can. Not that a waterfall would do anything against Kirin.

You're not going to notice a giant dragon in the form of lightning? Not to mention quick deduction is part of his character. I'm sure he could figure it out as soon as he sees Sasuke use other lightning based attacks. Mifune stopping Salamander from using seals is a far cry from stopping someone like Minato from using hand seals. Again, the lightning strike is fast, the prep for it isn't.

Originally posted by socool8520
You're not going to notice a giant dragon in the form of lightning? Not to mention quick deduction is part of his character. I'm sure he could figure it out as soon as he sees Sasuke use other lightning based attacks. Mifune stopping Salamander from using seals is a far cry from stopping someone like Minato from using hand seals. Again, the lightning strike is fast, the prep for it isn't.

Not if your attention is focused on fighting someone as powerful as Madara or Itachi, and that's assuming the Kirin actually appears in the sky.
It is, but after he's seen the attack.
Why? Minato's hand-seal speed isn't shown to be leagues faster than Hanzo's. In addition, Itachi is someone who probably has the fastest hand-seal speed in the manga, and guess what, he couldn't weave any hand-seals.

The Lightning Strike is not just fast, it is leagues faster than Minato. The prep for it is slow, but once the storm is there, it takes a shorter time for Sasuke to direct it at Minato's skull than it takes for Minato to set up his barrier.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Nah, Sasuke uses Kirin to one-shot everyone on Team Hokage except for Hashirama. While Hashirama is busy trying to look half as cool as Sasuke, Itachi stabs Hashirama with the Totsuka blade, and Madara proceeds to take a quick shit on him. gg Team Hokage.

What kinda counter is this sasuke gets killed early what part of that don't you get you think the hokage will stand there while he is preparing kirin and madara will have his hands full as well as itachi. The hokage will win. You fully ignored the FACT that current madara himself said that hashi can might be able to stop him and the fact that hashi won the battle even with the kyuubi there shows how much stronger he was then madara and why even with these new power ups they are still close in power.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Not if your attention is focused on fighting someone as powerful as Madara or Itachi, and that's assuming the Kirin actually appears in the sky.
It is, but after he's seen the attack.
Why? Minato's hand-seal speed isn't shown to be leagues faster than Hanzo's. In addition, Itachi is someone who probably has the fastest hand-seal speed in the manga, and guess what, he couldn't weave any hand-seals.

The Lightning Strike is not just fast, it is leagues faster than Minato. The prep for it is slow, but once the storm is there, it takes a shorter time for Sasuke to direct it at Minato's skull than it takes for Minato to set up his barrier.

We don't know enough about Kirin to assume it form anywhere else but the sky. Why wouldn't it?

Minato's reflexes and speed were known to be the fastest in the manga, so probably leagues above Hanzo, who wasn't known for his speed iirc. Minato's 1, and I repeat 1 sign from what we saw on panel ( could be more and he was just doing it super fast) were fast enough to counter a tailed beast ball, an attack that is really fast as commented on by Kakashi and Gai. It's not like he has to do the Zabuza water dragon hand seals.

What is this about Itachi not weaving hand seals? Why would he need to? There are no seals required for susano'o. What else is he gonna use? This point is irrelevant.

I think we are also trying to bring real world speeds and stuff into this which is quite foolish. If this were actual real world lightning, then even Itachi shouldn't have been able to react to it since he had no defense when the lightning dragon was formed. Either it's not as fast as you think, or naruto characters are fast enough to react to lightning strikes. Take your pick.

According to Naruto physics, Itachi should be FTL. Therefore Minato should also be FTL

But in all seriousness we don't know how Hashi beat Madara but it's implied he beat the FAPS. Though if those two decide to have a clash of the titans again then the other uchiha/kage will probably get caught in the crossfire.

Minato could possibly port away from Kirin but he's not throwing up the seal in time unless he stops it before it begins which is going to be hard iwth Itachi running around. Kirin is like a faster but less powerful bijudama but I think that Naruto lightning is slower than ours.

Originally posted by socool8520
I think we are also trying to bring real world speeds and stuff into this which is quite foolish. If this were actual real world lightning, then even Itachi shouldn't have been able to react to it since he had no defense when the lightning dragon was formed. Either it's not as fast as you think, or naruto characters are fast enough to react to lightning strikes. Take your pick.

We are given a speed for the attack so no, Itachi reacted to something moving at lightning speed. This is a legit feat for him/his Susano'o. And just because he can do it doesn't mean anybody can.

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-396-6/naruto/chapter-391.html

^ If Itachi can do it, then somebody who is stated to be faster can do it as well. Meaning Minato, Naruto, and possibly A should be able to react to kirin as well. Weaving one hand sign for Minato should be well within his capability.

Originally posted by socool8520
^ If Itachi can do it, then somebody who is stated to be faster can do it as well. Meaning Minato, Naruto, and possibly A should be able to react to kirin as well. Weaving one hand sign for Minato should be well within his capability.

Itachi didn't do it because of his speed. All Itachi did to stop Kirin was open his other eye to activate Susano'o. He didn't dodge it, he didn't use any hand seals, he just opened his other eye(cause Susano'o needs both). That doesn't stop it from being the best reaction feat.

And quite frankly Itachi has better hand sign speed feats than any of the three you listed(really not getting how A would redirect it). Look

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-55464-6/naruto/chapter-502.html

Minato does two hand signs, and no they don't look particularly fast compared to Itachi's showing here.

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-147-8/naruto/chapter-142.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-147-9/naruto/chapter-142.html

Itachi is so fast that Kakashi can barely see them getting weaved at all.

Such an Itachitard biscuits

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Itachi didn't do it because of his speed. All Itachi did to stop Kirin was open his other eye to activate Susano'o. He didn't dodge it, he didn't use any hand seals, he just opened his other eye(cause Susano'o needs both). That doesn't stop it from being the best reaction feat.

And quite frankly Itachi has better hand sign speed feats than any of the three you listed(really not getting how A would redirect it). Look

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-55464-6/naruto/chapter-502.html

Minato does two hand signs, and no they don't look particularly fast compared to Itachi's showing here.

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-147-8/naruto/chapter-142.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-147-9/naruto/chapter-142.html

Itachi is so fast that Kakashi can barely see them getting weaved at all.

We are talking about a guy who can not only react, but actually move his whole body fast enough to do this

http://wootmanga.com/naruto/501/3/

And this is not even porting. That's reflexes and footspeed. But he can't throw up 2 hand signs (looks like 1 and then he opens his hands out) fast enough to counter sasuke forming a lightning dragon and then directng it? Come on now.

Did Orochimaru imply that Itachi would've been able to take out Hiruzen?

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-145-5/naruto/chapter-140.html

in conjunction with himself, yeah, i think that's what he meant.

Originally posted by marwash22
in conjunction with himself, yeah, i think that's what he meant.
Didn't Madara just defeat five kage? Yeah, there has to be a plot hole somewhere.

Originally posted by Astner
Didn't Madara just defeat five kage? Yeah, there has to be a plot hole somewhere.

Yeah, but he's amped something ridiculous and can't die so that helps. Also, besides oonoki and Gaara, with Tsu's aid, the kages looked weak as hell. The leaf village Hokages are much stronger than that. Hell, I think the previous kages they have had to fight against in the war would have done better than the current kages

this generation of Kages are probably the weakest we have seen. Though, it would have taken away from Hashirama's legacy if these were able to defeat Madara when he apparently couldn't.

Not necessarily. Hash actually defeated Madara, he just didn't kill him. Also, I don't think 5 S class kages doing the job it only too Has to do previously would make Hashirama look bad.

good point, i guess.

It is pretty crappy how easily they were dismissed by madara though. I wouldn't have minded them being beaten so much had it been a struggle for madara. Instead, everytime they look to have the upper hand, he pulls another trick out of his ass. I really hope naruto gives him the beat down.

that whole immortal + unlimited chakra thing is a mofo.

Originally posted by socool8520
We are talking about a guy who can not only react, but actually move his whole body fast enough to do this

http://wootmanga.com/naruto/501/3/

And this is not even porting. That's reflexes and footspeed. But he can't throw up 2 hand signs (looks like 1 and then he opens his hands out) fast enough to counter sasuke forming a lightning dragon and then directng it? Come on now.

Uh, so? The feat isn't that impressive next to reacting to lightning.

Sure, if Sasuke takes his sweet little time with it I see no reason why Minato couldn't throw up the shield. But Sasuke wouldn't. There is a difference between savoring the moment of killing the bastard you've hated most of your life and killing someone who is nothing to you. If Minato tries it after Sasuke has flung his hand down, then he will die.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Uh, so? The feat isn't that impressive next to reacting to lightning.

Sure, if Sasuke takes his sweet little time with it I see no reason why Minato couldn't throw up the shield. But Sasuke wouldn't. There is a difference between savoring the moment of killing the bastard you've hated most of your life and killing someone who is nothing to you. If Minato tries it after Sasuke has flung his hand down, then he will die.

The fact is it does take time for all that lightning to build up and it does not take a genius to notice that the attack will come from the sky. Minato can and will put up a barrier. Not like it is what sasuke will use now that he has this new found reliance on solely his ems which will not help him against minato who can stop most of his attacks.

I know that. DP knows that. DP was trolling. The **** are people going on about this for?

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
What kinda counter is this sasuke gets killed early what part of that don't you get you think the hokage will stand there while he is preparing kirin and madara will have his hands full as well as itachi. The hokage will win. You fully ignored the FACT that current madara himself said that hashi can might be able to stop him and the fact that hashi won the battle even with the kyuubi there shows how much stronger he was then madara and why even with these new power ups they are still close in power.

Yeah, you're wrong about Madara and Hashirama.
Hashirama never beat down both Kurama and Madara. He stole Kurama away from Madara, and then beat him.
Oh, and Madara said Hashirama was the only one who could stop him, not that Hashirama could stop him right now. While it certainly is possible, Madara would be more powerful and more versatile, seeing as he has access to unlimited chakra, a regenerating body, his own jutsu that made him nearly as powerful as Hashirama, Mokuton, and the bloody Rinn'egan.

~ Madara simply uses Rinne Tensei to revive Sasuke as many times as he wants to. Sasuke one-shots Hiruzen, two-shots Tsunade, prepares Kirin, and Madara brings out Perfect Susano'o. While Minato is busy shitting his pants over the sight of Perfect Susano'o, Sasuke oneshots Hashirama & Minato with Kirin, and Madara takes a shit on Hashirama's body while Itachi is busy writing the next chapter of Naruto.

Two can play at this game ma boi.

Originally posted by socool8520
We don't know enough about Kirin to assume it form anywhere else but the sky. Why wouldn't it?

Minato's reflexes and speed were known to be the fastest in the manga, so probably leagues above Hanzo, who wasn't known for his speed iirc. Minato's 1, and I repeat 1 sign from what we saw on panel ( could be more and he was just doing it super fast) were fast enough to counter a tailed beast ball, an attack that is really fast as commented on by Kakashi and Gai. It's not like he has to do the Zabuza water dragon hand seals.

What is this about Itachi not weaving hand seals? Why would he need to? There are no seals required for susano'o. What else is he gonna use? This point is irrelevant.

I think we are also trying to bring real world speeds and stuff into this which is quite foolish. If this were actual real world lightning, then even Itachi shouldn't have been able to react to it since he had no defense when the lightning dragon was formed. Either it's not as fast as you think, or naruto characters are fast enough to react to lightning strikes. Take your pick.
Kay, let's get this over with.

I'm talking about the 'giant electrical dragon' (which is a Qilin/Kirin BTW) that 'appears' whenever Sasuke uses the jutsu. I'm not so sure it actually appears, as Sasuke stated that he would merely guide the Lightning, not shape it and then guide it. But meh, whatever.

Now, assuming Sasuke does use Kirin in this fight (and no, I'm not saying he will, I was just trolling), immediately after the Giant Kirin appears, Sasuke would send it towards his target. So no, there would not be enough time for Minato to weave the hand-signs for the barrier. If he wants to use the barrier, he'll have to set it up long before that Kirin has appeared and Sasuke has sent it down towards his target.
Normally, it wouldn't be too difficult for Minato to deduce what Sasuke is trying to do, but I doubt he'll have the luxury of devoting his attention to the sky in this particular fight.
On a side note, Sasuke only took as long as he did against Itachi as he wanted to explain the mechanics of the jutsu, and to take delight in the moment when he thought he finally had Itachi at his mercy, the moment he had dreamt of ever since he was 7 years old. He won't take that much time against someone else like Minato. Capisce?

Sure, in reflexes and movement speed. Your assumption that he's leagues faster than Hanzo when it comes to weaving hand-seals is baseless. Lol, comparatively speaking, Kirin would be a Peregrine Falcon, while the Bijuu-dama would be a Sloth.
Itachi has, by feats, shown that he can weave signs far faster than anyone else in the manga; to the point where ninja with the Sharingan like Sasuke or Kakashi, cannot notice them. Minato is much slower at weaving hand-seals than Itachi is.
Also, my point was that Itachi did not have enough time to weave any hand-signs, despite being faster than everyone else in that category. Instead, he had to rely on a jutsu whose activation speed is second to none, barring that of FTG's.

Yeah, no, I'm not attributing the RW speed of Lightning to that of Naruto's. Zetsu explicitly states that Lightning is hundreds of times faster than Sound, and that it would reach the ground in 1 millisecond.
I've seen velocity values for RW Lightning varying from 1/3rd the speed of light (Mach 300,000) to 60000 m/s (Mach 175). The process of Lightning has different speeds for different steps in the process.
Also, don't you read the databook? Haku is Lightspeed brah. stoned

Oh yeah my counter is down below.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yeah, you're wrong about Madara and Hashirama.
Hashirama never beat down both Kurama and Madara. He stole Kurama away from Madara, and then beat him.
Oh, and Madara said Hashirama was the only one who could stop him, not that Hashirama could stop him right now. While it certainly is possible, Madara would be more powerful and more versatile, seeing as he has access to unlimited chakra, a regenerating body, his own jutsu that made him nearly as powerful as Hashirama, Mokuton, and the bloody Rinn'egan.

~ Madara simply uses Rinne Tensei to revive Sasuke as many times as he wants to. Sasuke one-shots Hiruzen, two-shots Tsunade, prepares Kirin, and Madara brings out Perfect Susano'o. While Minato is busy shitting his pants over the sight of Perfect Susano'o, Sasuke oneshots Hashirama & Minato with Kirin, and Madara takes a shit on Hashirama's body while Itachi is busy writing the next chapter of Naruto.

Two can play at this game ma boi.


Kay, let's get this over with.

I'm talking about the 'giant electrical dragon' (which is a Qilin/Kirin BTW) that 'appears' whenever Sasuke uses the jutsu. I'm not so sure it actually appears, as Sasuke stated that he would merely guide the Lightning, not shape it and then guide it. But meh, whatever.

Now, assuming Sasuke does use Kirin in this fight (and no, I'm not saying he will, I was just trolling), immediately after the Giant Kirin appears, Sasuke would send it towards his target. So no, there would not be enough time for Minato to weave the hand-signs for the barrier. If he wants to use the barrier, he'll have to set it up long before that Kirin has appeared and Sasuke has sent it down towards his target.
Normally, it wouldn't be too difficult for Minato to deduce what Sasuke is trying to do, but I doubt he'll have the luxury of devoting his attention to the sky in this particular fight.
On a side note, Sasuke only took as long as he did against Itachi as he wanted to explain the mechanics of the jutsu, and to take delight in the moment when he thought he finally had Itachi at his mercy, the moment he had dreamt of ever since he was 7 years old. He won't take that much time against someone else like Minato. Capisce?

Sure, in reflexes and movement speed. Your assumption that he's leagues faster than Hanzo when it comes to weaving hand-seals is baseless. Lol, comparatively speaking, Kirin would be a Peregrine Falcon, while the Bijuu-dama would be a Sloth.
Itachi has, by feats, shown that he can weave signs far faster than anyone else in the manga; to the point where ninja with the Sharingan like Sasuke or Kakashi, cannot notice them. Minato is much slower at weaving hand-seals than Itachi is.
Also, my point was that Itachi did not have enough time to weave any hand-signs, despite being faster than everyone else in that category. Instead, he had to rely on a jutsu whose activation speed is second to none, barring that of FTG's.

Yeah, no, I'm not attributing the RW speed of Lightning to that of Naruto's. Zetsu explicitly states that Lightning is hundreds of times faster than Sound, and that it would reach the ground in 1 millisecond.
I've seen velocity values for RW Lightning varying from 1/3rd the speed of light (Mach 300,000) to 60000 m/s (Mach 175). The process of Lightning has different speeds for different steps in the process.
Also, don't you read the databook? Haku is Lightspeed brah. stoned

I won't address what you wrote to the other guy.

So you were there when the fight happened? Using logic I doubt kishi had the nine tails appear only to get taken down in the first few seconds. He was able to fight both of them for a while then capture the nine tails then proceed to give madara a beat down .Obviously madara who knew about hashi's control of tailed beasts would not bring one unless he was sure he can maintain his own for a good portion of the fight against hashi. Hashirama and tobirama can probably take him together. But the fact that madara with even PS did not have enough faith in his abilites and decided he needed the STRONGEST tailed beasts help tell's us volumes of how strong hashi was.

Let's see madara revive sasuke after he is sealed in the death god?
Im sure hiruzen will make the sacrifice(of a shadow clone)
Minato just beats him to a pulp long enough for hiruzen to finish then kill him. Tsunade stalls itachi by using katsuyu and minato's just summoned toads to gang bang him (long range attacks) long enough for sasuke to be finished. Then they gang up and rape itachi. Hiruzen sacrifices another clone to seal the incapacitated itachi and then they ruse to fight madara and hiruzen finally sacrifices himself to seal madara. Hokages for the win!
Then the remaining go and rape madara.

Hiruzen's soul is still the one that's sacrificed when Shiki Fuujin is used. Even if he does the Shadow Clone trick he'll still die. Also unlike Minato's use of it, Hiruzen appears to only be able to short-ranged. Sasuke could actually take Tsunade on though we now know she's a tough opponent to put down.

Let also not forget about Itachi's Tsukyomi and WTF sword, unless those are not allowed in this scenario. To be honest even if Hashirama beats Madara again it'll be a clash of gods where everyone dies in the crossfire :P

I still say the Uchiha win but that's only because Hashirama and Minato are doing all of the heavy fighting.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
I won't address what you wrote to the other guy.

So you were there when the fight happened? Using logic I doubt kishi had the nine tails appear only to get taken down in the first few seconds. He was able to fight both of them for a while then capture the nine tails then proceed to give madara a beat down .Obviously madara who knew about hashi's control of tailed beasts would not bring one unless he was sure he can maintain his own for a good portion of the fight against hashi. Hashirama and tobirama can probably take him together. But the fact that madara with even PS did not have enough faith in his abilites and decided he needed the STRONGEST tailed beasts help tell's us volumes of how strong hashi was.

Let's see madara revive sasuke after he is sealed in the death god?
Im sure hiruzen will make the sacrifice(of a shadow clone)
Minato just beats him to a pulp long enough for hiruzen to finish then kill him. Tsunade stalls itachi by using katsuyu and minato's just summoned toads to gang bang him (long range attacks) long enough for sasuke to be finished. Then they gang up and rape itachi. Hiruzen sacrifices another clone to seal the incapacitated itachi and then they ruse to fight madara and hiruzen finally sacrifices himself to seal madara. Hokages for the win!
Then the remaining go and rape madara.

So you were there when the fight happened? Using logic I doubt kishi had hashi take on both the nine-tails and someone nearly as strong as him for a long time, instead of taking control over the nine-tails like Kushina said he did. He was able to capture the nine tails then proceed to give madara a beat down with nine-tails. Obviously madara who never knew about hashi's control of tailed beasts would bring one as he wanted to destroy konoha. Hashirama and tobirama cannot take him together as tobirama is featless and madara is more powerful than hashirama. But the fact that madara with even PS had enough faith in his abilites and decided he needed the STRONGEST tailed beasts help tell's us volumes of how strong hashi was.

No, Madara kills Sasuke himself, and then revives him for the lulz. Death god tech is useless as Hiruzen is too slow and cannot touch a Sasuke with Susano'o.
I'm sure Sasuke will one-shot Hiruzen.
Madara uses Susano'o and steps on Minato, crushing him like a little bug.
Itachi rapestomps Tsunade in the first few seconds with Amaterasu.
Old Hiruzen will be one-shotted by Sasuke. Try to keep up.
Tobirama kills himself as he knows how useless he is in this fight due to his lack of feats to compete with someone like Sasuke. Uchiha for the win!
Then the three Uchiha go and gangbang Hashirama, and afterwards, Madara takes a shit on Hashirama's body.

Try again, ma boi.

Originally posted by socool8520
Not necessarily. Hash actually defeated Madara, he just didn't kill him. Also, I don't think 5 S class kages doing the job it only too Has to do previously would make Hashirama look bad.

Not really. Hashirama is assumed to have defeated Madara and he thought he had killed Madara, as did the rest of the world. Now, we don't know how the fight actually ended, but Obito told Konan (when he was pretending to be Madara), that Madara only fought Hashirama in order to gain access to Hashirama's abilities, which he did get.

nobody really knows what the first 3 hokages can really do (yet).

true. especially the 2nd. That dude is all rep at this point.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
nobody really knows what the first 3 hokages can really do (yet).

At least Hashirama has something to his name, by way of Madara's usage of Mokuton, and Final Susano'o. Hiruzen has one battle against two Kages that weren't at full power and he got shafted by the power creep Naruto experienced in Part 2, whereas Tobirama has the creation of one broken jutsu, and the one feat to his name has been replicated by a bunch of mooks. haermm

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
At least Hashirama has something to his name, by way of Madara's usage of Mokuton, and Final Susano'o. Hiruzen has one battle against two Kages that weren't at full power and he got shafted by the power creep Naruto experienced in Part 2, whereas Tobirama has the creation of one broken jutsu, and the one feat to his name has been replicated by a bunch of mooks. haermm

Which feat?


He has water dragon/water wall, which others have done, but only he and Mizukage one-handsign it.


We're also told he has time-space jutsu.

Originally posted by Q99
Which feat?


He has water dragon/water wall, which others have done, but only he and Mizukage one-handsign it.


We're also told he has time-space jutsu.

Yes, his Water-Release feat.

Okay, and?
Also, Itachi is apparently capable of using it with one-handsign as well, at least, that is what is implied.

That's the same as Mei telling us that she can use Earth Jutsu. We don't know what exactly he can do with Space-time Jutsu, other than him skilled in it, and being able to count the number of people in the general area.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yes, his Water-Release feat.

Okay, and?
Also, Itachi is apparently capable of using it with one-handsign as well, at least, that is what is implied.

I think even Itachi multi-signs it, just really fast.

Originally posted by Q99
I think even Itachi multi-signs it, just really fast. We aren't really shown him using signs, but he is fast with hand-seals, so that's a possibility too I guess.

Also, whereas both Tobirama & Mei, apparently, used one hand-seal for the jutsu, Mei did use pre-existing water.

itachi has fast hand seals, he performed the shadowclone jutsu while throwing kunai evenly against sasuke

I know this.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
So you were there when the fight happened? Using logic I doubt kishi had hashi take on both the nine-tails and someone nearly as strong as him for a long time, instead of taking control over the nine-tails like Kushina said he did. He was able to capture the nine tails then proceed to give madara a beat down with nine-tails. Obviously madara who never knew about hashi's control of tailed beasts would bring one as he wanted to destroy konoha. Hashirama and tobirama cannot take him together as tobirama is featless and madara is more powerful than hashirama. But the fact that madara with even PS had enough faith in his abilites and decided he needed the STRONGEST tailed beasts help tell's us volumes of how strong hashi was.

No, Madara kills Sasuke himself, and then revives him for the lulz. Death god tech is useless as Hiruzen is too slow and cannot touch a Sasuke with Susano'o.
I'm sure Sasuke will one-shot Hiruzen.
Madara uses Susano'o and steps on Minato, crushing him like a little bug.
Itachi rapestomps Tsunade in the first few seconds with Amaterasu.
Old Hiruzen will be one-shotted by Sasuke. Try to keep up.
Tobirama kills himself as he knows how useless he is in this fight due to his lack of feats to compete with someone like Sasuke. Uchiha for the win!
Then the three Uchiha go and gangbang Hashirama, and afterwards, Madara takes a shit on Hashirama's body.

Try again, ma boi.



Not really. Hashirama is assumed to have defeated Madara and he thought he had killed Madara, as did the rest of the world. Now, we don't know how the fight actually ended, but Obito told Konan (when he was pretending to be Madara), that Madara only fought Hashirama in order to gain access to Hashirama's abilities, which he did get.

No how does madara not know about hashi's tailed beast control when that was what made him considered the strongest in the world when madara was still relevant?
He obviously fought them both for a while and the fact that he did think he needed the nine tails help makes your arguments pointless as it shows how much stronger hashirama was. He still thinks hashi can take him ass tobirama who has been said to have good techniques and they can take him.

You obviously need to re read as I said after minato beats sasuke to a pulp he then seals him and and they proceed to finish of itachi and seal him. Then madara gets stomped.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Tobirama has the creation of one broken jutsu, and the one feat to his name has been replicated by a bunch of mooks. haermm meh. he presumably died fighting the gin/kin bros whom (also presumably) can go 6 tails, that's 12 between the two.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
meh. he presumably died fighting the gin/kin bros whom (also presumably) can go 6 tails, that's 12 between the two.

He was nearly killed by the two despite having the Raikage and probably other ninjas as backup, but he died facing the Kinkaku force. We aren't told if the Kinkaku force included the Gin-Kin bros. Doubt it did though.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
No how does madara not know about hashi's tailed beast control when that was what made him considered the strongest in the world when madara was still relevant?
He obviously fought them both for a while and the fact that he did think he needed the nine tails help makes your arguments pointless as it shows how much stronger hashirama was. He still thinks hashi can take him ass tobirama who has been said to have good techniques and they can take him.

You obviously need to re read as I said after minato beats sasuke to a pulp he then seals him and and they proceed to finish of itachi and seal him. Then madara gets stomped.

Because hashi's tailed beast control was not what made him considered the strongest in the world when madara was still relevant, it was mokuton.

He obviously fought them both for a little while but the fact that he consistently drew with hashirama when not using the nine-tails makes your arguments pointless as it shows how equal the two were. He still thinks hashi can take him ass he has a boner for him tobirama who has been said to have good techniques is featless and they cannot take him.

You obviously need to re read as I said after madara kills and revives sasuke for the lulz, madara uses susano'o and steps on minato, crushing him like a little bug, itachi rapestomps tsunade, sasuke will one-shot hiruzen, and then hashirama gets stomped.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He was nearly killed by the two despite having the Raikage and probably other ninjas as backup, but he died facing the Kinkaku force. We aren't told if the Kinkaku force included the Gin-Kin bros. Doubt it did though.



Because hashi's tailed beast control was not what made him considered the strongest in the world when madara was still relevant, it was mokuton.

He obviously fought them both for a little while but the fact that he consistently drew with hashirama when not using the nine-tails makes your arguments pointless as it shows how equal the two were. He still thinks hashi can take him ass he has a boner for him tobirama who has been said to have good techniques is featless and they cannot take him.

You obviously need to re read as I said after madara kills and revives sasuke for the lulz, madara uses susano'o and steps on minato, crushing him like a little bug, itachi rapestomps tsunade, sasuke will one-shot hiruzen, and then hashirama gets stomped.

One of the things that made mokuton so good was the tailed beast control.

He is around equal with hashi yet he brought the nine tails ot help him? He clearly did not have enough faith in his abilities and realized how superior hashi is.

Wow he is gonna kill his own and revive them for what the lulz that is stupid and does not add anything to the fight. Minato rapes sasuke. Hiruzen and tsunade stall itachi long enough for that to happen. Then hiruzen sacrifices a clone to seal sasuke and they tag team rape itachi and seal him. Or they could kill both of them and have tobirama revive one of them as edo tensei using the others body. Then they murder rape madara together.

If you're equal with someone, bringing something to gain an actual advantage is sensible.


Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
We aren't really shown him using signs, but he is fast with hand-seals, so that's a possibility too I guess.

Iirc Kakashi comments on him using seals really fast at one point, but like you say it's not shown.



She did? Where was there water in the Kage/Madara fight?


It was something of a desert until Hashirama made the wood.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
One of the things that made mokuton so good was the tailed beast control.

He is around equal with hashi yet he brought the nine tails ot help him? He clearly did not have enough faith in his abilities and realized how superior hashi is.

Wow he is gonna kill his own and revive them for what the lulz that is stupid and does not add anything to the fight. Minato rapes sasuke. Hiruzen and tsunade stall itachi long enough for that to happen. Then hiruzen sacrifices a clone to seal sasuke and they tag team rape itachi and seal him. Or they could kill both of them and have tobirama revive one of them as edo tensei using the others body. Then they murder rape madara together.

The thing that made mokuton much better than its bijuu control was its uberness as shown by how one mokuton attack nearly took out 5 kage.

He is around equal with hashi yet he brought the nine tails ot help him? He clearly had enough faith in his abilities and realized how equal to hashi he is so he realized he needed to use something to be more powerful than hashi.

Wow he is gonna kill his own and revive them for what the lulz that is what he would do and shows that he could win this fight on his own. Minato gets raped by madara. Then hiruzen gets wtfstomped by sasuke and itachi destroys tsunade and tobirama in one shot. Then madara shows sasuke how to murder rape hashi while itachi writes naruto chapters while smoking a cigar and sipping pina coladas on his portable hammock.

Originally posted by Q99

Iirc Kakashi comments on him using seals really fast at one point, but like you say it's not shown.

She did? Where was there water in the Kage/Madara fight?


Yeah, he said they were a distraction. But given Itachi's level of talent, I wouldn't be surprised if he could one-handseal it.

I think she created Water with her first tech, and then used that water for her one-handseal water dragon.


EDIT: Never mind, she created the Water dragon without using pre-existing water, both times.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
The thing that made mokuton much better than its bijuu control was its uberness as shown by how one mokuton attack nearly took out 5 kage.

He is around equal with hashi yet he brought the nine tails ot help him? He clearly had enough faith in his abilities and realized how equal to hashi he is so he realized he needed to use something to be more powerful than hashi.

Wow he is gonna kill his own and revive them for what the lulz that is what he would do and shows that he could win this fight on his own. Minato gets raped by madara. Then hiruzen gets wtfstomped by sasuke and itachi destroys tsunade and tobirama in one shot. Then madara shows sasuke how to murder rape hashi while itachi writes naruto chapters while smoking a cigar and sipping pina coladas on his portable hammock.



Yeah, he said they were a distraction. But given Itachi's level of talent, I wouldn't be surprised if he could one-handseal it.

I think she created Water with her first tech, and then used that water for her one-handseal water dragon.


EDIT: Never mind, she created the Water dragon without using pre-existing water, both times.

Im pretty sure it was famous for it's bijuu control since bijuu were so prized.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-302-9/naruto/chapter-297.html

Hashi still had to fight both for a while and still dispatched the nine tails quickly then proceeded to whoop madara out of existence. Madara is a prideful man and yet he did not want to see in a fight to death if HE was truly stronger than hashirama? Clearly he did not have as much faith as you think. He has said hashi is the only who can stop him and he said that as edo him. Though it could be a translation error that would mean hashirama might have been strong enough to compete against current madara. Add hiruzen to the mix and madara is in trouble. Minato rapes sasuke then sasuke gets sealed. Tobirama and tsunade tag team itachi and he gets sealed. Then if madara is still standing he seals them.

It's famed for it's biju control but it's also really dangerous in it's own right and famous for that too. It gives a variety of very high-end techniques and can reshape the battlefield when used.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Im pretty sure it was famous for it's bijuu control since bijuu were so prized.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-302-9/naruto/chapter-297.html

Hashi still had to fight both for a while and still dispatched the nine tails quickly then proceeded to whoop madara out of existence. Madara is a prideful man and yet he did not want to see in a fight to death if HE was truly stronger than hashirama? Clearly he did not have as much faith as you think. He has said hashi is the only who can stop him and he said that as edo him. Though it could be a translation error that would mean hashirama might have been strong enough to compete against current madara. Add hiruzen to the mix and madara is in trouble. Minato rapes sasuke then sasuke gets sealed. Tobirama and tsunade tag team itachi and he gets sealed. Then if madara is still standing he seals them.

A necklace + his chakra let him control Bijuu, but Mokuton granted him bijuu-level power that rivaled Perfect Susano'o, and the people who heard about this level of power thought he was a legend like the Sage.

Hashi had to fight both for a while and stole the nine-tails quickly and obviously used nine-tails against madara, then thought he whooped madara out of existence, but madara still escaped and got some of hashi's powers. Madara is a prideful man and knew he was too evenly matched with Hashirama to beat him in a fight to the death, so he brought nine-tails. Clearly he had more faith than you think.
He has said hashi is the only one who could stop him, but he has hashi's mokuton now, so he can counter hashi easily, use his own power which equals hashi's, and use the rinnegan which is the most powerful weapon in naruto-verse. He just likes wanking hashi.
Add hiruzen to the mix and madara still shit-stomps the team. Minato gets crushed by Susano'o, and then sasuke *****-slaps hiruzen. Tobirama and tsunade get one-shoted by itachi with totsuka and they get sealed. Then if hashi is still standing, madara takes a shit on him and itachi seals him while telling sasuke to make him a samich.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
A necklace + his chakra let him control Bijuu, but Mokuton granted him bijuu-level power that rivaled Perfect Susano'o, and the people who heard about this level of power thought he was a legend like the Sage.

Hashi had to fight both for a while and stole the nine-tails quickly and obviously used nine-tails against madara, then thought he whooped madara out of existence, but madara still escaped and got some of hashi's powers. Madara is a prideful man and knew he was too evenly matched with Hashirama to beat him in a fight to the death, so he brought nine-tails. Clearly he had more faith than you think.
He has said hashi is the only one who could stop him, but he has hashi's mokuton now, so he can counter hashi easily, use his own power which equals hashi's, and use the rinnegan which is the most powerful weapon in naruto-verse. He just likes wanking hashi.
Add hiruzen to the mix and madara still shit-stomps the team. Minato gets crushed by Susano'o, and then sasuke *****-slaps hiruzen. Tobirama and tsunade get one-shoted by itachi with totsuka and they get sealed. Then if hashi is still standing, madara takes a shit on him and itachi seals him while telling sasuke to make him a samich.

I do not see him putting the necklace on the full nine tails he can probably do it without the necklace just like how yamato suppressed kisames chakra and how he thought he could still control him without it.
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/508/2
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/497/15
And we do not know what other powers he had maybe he used a whole other jutsu against perfect susanoo in combination with wood.

Basically they are not even as madara clearly brought nine tails knowing he would lose. So hashi>madara but the fact that he thought he had to rely on the strongest tailed beats to stand a chance says volumes about hashi. If he thinks that hashi still has a chance then that says hashi is that strong and can put up a hell of a fight. He might be able to wrestle control of the wood they are controlloing and make it only his weapon. Add hiruzen who can use a shadow clone to seal the distracted madara and they beat him. Minato solos sasuke and tsunade and tobirama rape itachi.

Hiruzen was 70 and Tsunade never fought Pain so that is a pretty stupid arguement. Sasuke can't beat anybody on this list. Odds are Itachi can't either. The only threat is Madara and if you Madara in his normal human body who can die then the Kage win with little problem.

Madara would face hashirama and sasuke/itachi would find tobirama, hiruzen, minato and tsunade a pain...hokages win this. Itachi fears jiraiya with kisame near and tsunade is a sannin so with the extras it doesn't look good for the 3 uchiha.

In light of recent information, Hokages win.

Sasuke and Itachi are not nearly on the level of Hashirama or probably even Tobirama.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Tobirama's suckiness brings the entire team down to shit-tier. this guy.

naruto nowadays is just who has the bigger jutsu and because of that i give it to uchihas

Hashirama has the biggest jutsu in the series.

So yeah, the Hokage win since apparently Tobirama is way stronger than initially thought.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Hashirama has the biggest jutsu in the series.

So yeah, the Hokage win since apparently Tobirama is way stronger than initially thought.

lol, idrc, but it is just the bigger jutsu nowadays so yea, whoever has that has the win.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Hashirama has the biggest jutsu in the series.

So yeah, the Hokage win since apparently Tobirama is way stronger than initially thought.

Tobirama still hasn't really done anything yet. He shook a wall with his chakra. That's about it. I want to see him actually battle someone before I pass judgement.

Originally posted by socool8520
Tobirama still hasn't really done anything yet. He shook a wall with his chakra. That's about it. I want to see him actually battle someone before I pass judgement.

He also killed Izuna with his sword... Izuna who we *also* don't know how strong he is.

Heck, he did more as an edo zombie.

Originally posted by Q99
He also killed Izuna with his sword... Izuna who we *also* don't know how strong he is.

Heck, he did more as an edo zombie.

Agreed. I would like to see his techs though. Hopefully they go the battlefield soon.

Bump.

Now that most of the combatants have better feats and/or are stronger...

Madara and the First cancel each other out. That leaves 2 Uchiha for 4 Hokage. Yeah, Hokage.

Now it just comes down to being outnumbered on the Uchiha part...but the Gedo Mazo Statue is still nothing to scoff at.

That said Minato now has some power on his side thanks to the Kyuubi and Hiruzen has better feats too. While Madara beat Tobirama pretty easily it was implied that him and Hashirama were more or less tied until Naruto showed up to tip the scales. And while Tobirama is still the least impressive of the Hokage in terms of battle potential he would still be annoying to fight for Sasuke and Itachi.

It probably would go to the Hokage for the numbers difference. Put Obito in and it would be really close.

Originally posted by Based
Madara and the First cancel each other out. That leaves 2 Uchiha for 4 Hokage. Yeah, Hokage.

If it's their Edo versions, then I agree.

If it's current Madara, he'd solo the field. Dude's a God Mode Sue now. Wish I had waited for the current chapter before bumping this. >__>

I agree with Demonic Phoenix, current Madara solo's for the most part. Hashirama would get killed first, while Sasuke and Itachi survive with Susano'o spamming and then I could see Sasuke killing Tobirama with a bit of amaterasu shot gunning, and Itachi would quickly finish Sarutobi with Tsukiyomi. Minato's the only one I can see giving them too much trouble honestly. However, I think that with Madara's rinnegan and Itachi's/Sasuke's susano'o all together, they would make short work of him.

I think the Kage are beaten in this one. If they had Naruto and Jiraya instead of Hiruzen and Tsunade though, this becomes a MUCH closer fight, with the Uchiha team most likely losing.

Assuming no Edo Tensei and no Juubidara-

Madara with Rinnegan and Mokuton >= a Hashirama
Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan Sasuke > Tobirama
Itachi > Minato (base)

Hiruzen and Tsunade don't matter. Uchiha win.

uchiha clan

Actually, I revoke my previous statement. If they had Jiraiya and Naruto instead of Tsunade and Hiruzen, the Uchiha team gets raped. For this thread though, Uchiha win.

Old Hiruzen lost to someone who was one-paneled by Itachi. I doubt even prime Hiruzen would be able to do anything at all, especially now that Itachi would be considered to be the "weak link" of team Uchiha. Tsunade is just lmao

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Old Hiruzen lost to someone who was one-paneled by Itachi. I doubt even prime Hiruzen would be able to do anything at all, especially now that Itachi would be considered to be the "weak link" of team Uchiha. Tsunade is just lmao

Exactly.

Although, you gotta remember, they did say Hiruzen in his prime was the "god of ninja", and that's GOT to count for something, when you've had powerhouses like Hashirama in the past, and since the title stuck even after Minato died. If it was prime Hiruzen, we have to consider that he could possibly even solo the team, or at least Madara and maybe Sasuke as well, being that he was presumably stronger than Hashirama.

I don't know why people would say Itachi is the weak link. He was on the level of a Hokage at age seven. He was supposed to die from some illness when and Kisame first showed up in pre time-skip, IIRC. Anyway, we have some incredible feats and statements from Itachi that could be construed to put him above even Hashirama and Madara. For example, he has Tsukiyomi, which burns as hot as the sun and can't be put out, that he can shoot like a shotgun with a spread of range. He has Tsukiyomi, a genjutsu unbreakable to anyone BUT an Uchiha that has a three tomoe sharingan. He has arguably the strongest Susano'o. The reason for this is his Susano'o is equipped with A. The Totsuka blade, which seals anyone in a drunken stupor for all eternity, and can only be released by the user, and B. The Yata mirror, which deflects ALL attacks, regardless of the power behind them. Itachi might not be a powerhouse with casual meteor dropping, and continent leveling abilities, but his hax abilities, intelligence and techniques make him arguably the deadliest and most dangerous character in all of Naruto.

One last thing, Tsunade isn't that much of a push-over. She was able to fight with Madara and survive. Not to mention she can spam regeneration like Hashirama and stay alive through stuff others couldn't. I mean, if she's stronger than Raikage, who is arguably about as powerful as Naruto himself, she's not that weak. She just lacks the speed, endurance, battle knowledge, quick thinking, and overall skill that is REQUIRED to fight in a battle like this.

7 year old Itachi's intelligence and way of thinking was what rivaled a Hokage, not his sheer power. He hadn't even fully mastered his Sharingan before the age of 8. Itachi couldn't realize his full potential due to his illness, but imo he could have been the 4th most powerful character in all of Naruto if he actually sought more power. Only behind Naruto (due to plot powers), Sage of Six Paths, and Kaguya.

He's still the weakest out of the three because he only has Mangekyo Sharingan. Sasuke has Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan and Madara has Rinnegan + Mokuten + Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan. He could potentially beat Sasuke in a fight due to his superior skill and intelligence, but he's still lacking in power.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
7 year old Itachi's intelligence and way of thinking was what rivaled a Hokage, not his sheer power. He hadn't even fully mastered his Sharingan before the age of 8. Itachi couldn't realize his full potential due to his illness, but imo he could have been the 4th most powerful character in all of Naruto if he actually sought more power. Only behind Naruto (due to plot powers), Sage of Six Paths, and Kaguya.

He's still the weakest out of the three because he only has Mangekyo Sharingan. Sasuke has Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan and Madara has Rinnegan + Mokuten + Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan. He could potentially beat Sasuke in a fight due to his superior skill and intelligence, but he's still lacking in power.

I know that, but he was still on the level of a Hokage at age seven, and he's only matured vastly since then with his unlocking of Sharingan and Mangekyo Sharingan. Yeaaahh, Naruto's nowhere even close to top three. He's dying now because he isn't. On a power scale, I'd put Kaguya at #1, but only because she had ALL the chakra in the world at one point, literally making her as strong as all the ninja on that planet combined, even though she couldn't have many developed jutsu at that point.

Anyway, then I'd put Ten tails sage Madara at number two, because he has EMS, Rinnegan, Mokuton and the ten tails abilities, which gives him much more than the sage had, considering he only had Rinnegan and the ten tails. Anyway, I still don't think Naruto's that strong. Itachi with his full potential and no disease I bet could have easily surpassed Madara and Hashirama. With a fatal disease as a 20 year old without Eternal Mangekyo he was able to easily one panel Orochimaru, someone who while he was crippled bested Jiraiya and Tsunade at the same time. That's an ASTONISHING feat, that I bet Madara couldn't even dream of without being the Ten tails host.

Itachi is by NO means the weakest of the three. Edo tensei Nagato soloed KCM Naruto and Killer Bee with ease, and Itachi easily blitzed and killed an immortal version of Nagato with two attacks. That's... something Madara would probably cry over.

Itachi's Sharingan abilities like his astounding base Genjutsu that easily trumps every other in all of Naruto, his Tsukiyomi, which can one be bested by raw Chakra that surpasses The ten tails, or someone else that has a Mangekyo Sharingan or someone with a three tomoe Sharingan and Curse mark level two. Those combined with an unending flame that burns hotter than hell itself, and can never be put out until it turns its target into ashes, a sword that can seal anyone in a drunken stupor for all eternity with a nearly un-dodgeable stab, a mirror that blocks any and all ninjutsu and taijutsu, and someone with speed superior to people who have blitzed people who have blitzed the Raikage, and you have someone that can, as it has been stated before, only be defeated by another Sharingan user.

His raw power is nowhere near Sasuke's or Madara's, but he could still rape people they would lose to in a second. I could also see him beating Madara until he became the ten tails host, and Sasuke even with EMS if Itachi was being serious.