Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

This isn't a team fight. Here are the matchups...

Marquis of Death
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/1912748-marquis_large.jpg

vs

Hourman 1M
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/83104/1574728-hourman_and_worlogog_large.jpg

HOM Wanda
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/85218/2247470-scarlet_large.jpg

vs

World's Funnest Mxy
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/418127-AlexRossDCUniverse_large.jpg

Legion
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60352/1465893-81021comic_storystory_full_6994273._large.jpg

vs

Pandora
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/108144/2152809-flashpoint_mystery_woman_large.jpg

vs

Molecule Man
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/104470/2154590-recent_mm_large.jpeg

vs

TAO
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/308/1230137-tao_large.jpg

Franklin Richards (Adult)
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/2243166-float007_large.jpg

vs

Max Faraday
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/15723/317012-114349-max-faraday_large.JPG

Mad Jim Jaspers
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/256194-145376-mad-jim-jaspers_large.jpg

vs

ZH Parallax
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/51843/997252-gl_50_large.jpg

Jamie Braddock
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/229/663511-4_large.jpg

vs

Dharma
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/58006/1172346-dharma_death_of_the_universe_large.jpg

DC would win hands down for many factors but the biggest deciding factor is their originality which marvel severely lacks, also dc was first and marvel copy/steals their ideas:
presence/spector=one above all
dr. polaris=magneto
dr. manhattan=dr. strange
thor=superman
sentry=superman
gladator=superman
iron man=batman
abstracts=dc death,time,space,love entities.
thanos=darkseid
ideas to implement real god than marvel copied
sub-mariner=aquaman
besides the fact that during a golf course meeting dc was discussing ideas of cosmic heros to marvel writers than few months later fantastic four were born.
only thing dc copied was galactus=imperiex and debatable hulk=doomsday.

First off, your answer has almost nothing to do with the question.

Second, you've got a lot of stuff wrong there.

Namor was around 2-3 years before Aquaman.

Dr. Strange predated Manhattan and the Watchmen by roughly 20 years.

And how is Doomsday debatable? A monster of uncontrollable rage that gets stronger and more powerful? The only difference is that Doomsday is evil and he adapts and becomes immune instead of just getting stronger.

How is Iron Man a clone/copy of Batman? Aside from being rich and geniuses, they have nothing in common. And they aren't the only rich geniuses in comics, there are literally tons of those.

Magneto only debuted a few months after Polaris, and aside from similar powers, is nothing like him.

Thor is not in any way a Superman clone. Sentry and Gladiator yes, but not Thor.

I'll need some feats for the DC side, but I'm pretty sure that:

Marquis beats out Hourman.

MJJ beats out Parallx

Franklin beats Max.

Legion could potentially win, as he did create another world and put the current universe in a 5x10 box.

Also, I'm wondering why Molecule Man is here, unless you're talking the classic version that duked it out with Beyonder.

Originally posted by KingD19
First off, your answer has almost nothing to do with the question.

Second, you've got a lot of stuff wrong there.

Namor was around 2-3 years before Aquaman.

Dr. Strange predated Manhattan and the Watchmen by roughly 20 years.

And how is Doomsday debatable? A monster of uncontrollable rage that gets stronger and more powerful? The only difference is that Doomsday is evil and he adapts and becomes immune instead of just getting stronger.

How is Iron Man a clone/copy of Batman? Aside from being rich and geniuses, they have nothing in common. And they aren't the only rich geniuses in comics, there are literally tons of those.

Magneto only debuted a few months after Polaris, and aside from similar powers, is nothing like him.

Thor is not in any way a Superman clone. Sentry and Gladiator yes, but not Thor.
Thor was modeled after superman but isn't a clone. Dr. Strange is a clone of Dr. Fate, hulk was inspired partly by solomon grundy. Iron man isn't a copy of batman by any means though.

Originally posted by Hulkbuster1
DC would win hands down for many factors but the biggest deciding factor is their originality which marvel severely lacks, also dc was first and marvel copy/steals their ideas:
presence/spector=one above all
dr. polaris=magneto
dr. manhattan=dr. strange
thor=superman
sentry=superman
gladator=superman
iron man=batman
abstracts=dc death,time,space,love entities.
thanos=darkseid
ideas to implement real god than marvel copied
sub-mariner=aquaman
besides the fact that during a golf course meeting dc was discussing ideas of cosmic heros to marvel writers than few months later fantastic four were born.
only thing dc copied was galactus=imperiex and debatable hulk=doomsday.

I think you mean Dr. Fate= Dr. Strange. Fate came out first. Same with Doom Patrol and X-Men.

Originally posted by KingD19
I'll need some feats for the DC side, but I'm pretty sure that:

Marquis beats out Hourman.

MJJ beats out Parallx

Franklin beats Max.

Legion could potentially win, as he did create another world and put the current universe in a 5x10 box.

Also, I'm wondering why Molecule Man is here, unless you're talking the classic version that duked it out with Beyonder.

Any reasoning?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I think you mean Dr. Fate= Dr. Strange. Fate came out first. Same with Doom Patrol and X-Men. yeah my bad. also dc implemented multiple universes first and the idea of a prime earth and destory that=destorying the omniverse. and antimonitor absorb all omiverse ernegy thats greater than galactus he was powered by all realities compared to galactus who rules one universe even debateble living tribunal since thanos , i believe, later beay him with heart of universe.

Wow. DC bias much?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wow. DC bias much?
Hater.
uhuh

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hater.
uhuh

Yes, that's right. I have been cleverly disguising my true DC hate.

EXCELSIOR, BITCHES!

Originally posted by KingD19
I'll need some feats for the DC side, but I'm pretty sure that:

Marquis beats out Hourman.

MJJ beats out Parallx

Franklin beats Max.

Legion could potentially win, as he did create another world and put the current universe in a 5x10 box.

Also, I'm wondering why Molecule Man is here, unless you're talking the classic version that duked it out with Beyonder.

Post retcon Molecule Man also duked it out with the beyonder, as was said to be > Cube beings...

He's one of the few non-mutant reality warpers on Marvel Earth...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, that's right. I have been cleverly disguising my true DC hate.

EXCELSIOR, BITCHES!
You didn't fool me.
dursmart

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hater.
uhuh well in his defense marvel innovated comics by making the clones have issus making them relatable and thus marvel is popular to these kids gen of cod players they can relate to emo spiderman,psychotic anxiety social outcast anger issue tantrum hulk, bi-polar paraniod mental issue sentry, turrets syndrome deadpool=clone of dc deathstroke srsly, women pig iron man,thanos necrophilia,she hulk nymphomanic,dr strange gothic, and xmen discrimination civil wars=great stories for cod lol dc needs to srsly spice up names,stories and wars I mean league of extraordinary gentleman lol no this isnt the 40's spice up names and give us more darker stories although dc has complex intellectual stories unlike stan lees scientific based stories quote ''gamma sounds scintific even though i don't know anything about or what is gamma ray nevertheless it makes it scientifically accurate'' lolwut face-palm

Originally posted by Hulkbuster1
well in his defense marvel innovated comics by making the clones have issus making them relatable and thus marvel is popular to these kids gen of cod players they can relate to emo spiderman,psychotic anxiety social outcast anger issue tantrum hulk, bi-polar paraniod mental issue sentry, turrets syndrome deadpool=clone of dc deathstroke srsly, women pig iron man,thanos necrophilia,she hulk nymphomanic,dr strange gothic, and xmen discrimination civil wars=great stories for cod lol dc needs to srsly spice up names,stories and wars I mean league of extraordinary gentleman lol no this isnt the 40's spice up names and give us more darker stories although dc has complex intellectual stories unlike stan lees scientific based stories quote ''gamma sounds scintific even though i don't know anything about or what is gamma ray nevertheless it makes it scientifically accurate'' lolwut face-palm
We can't read this properly.

Use some punctuation ffs.

Feat-wise, Mxy beats the rest combined.

Pandora feat is also awesome she wrap all DC multiverses into one gaint multiverse. DCU, DCAU, Vertigo, and Wildstrom into DCNU

^ She merged 3 timelines into one timeline... And she needed Barry's help to do so.

That said, Pandora is one of the weakest characters in this thread.

Galan are you trying to say Vertigo, Wildstorm and main DCU just timelime because the last time I check they were 3 different Multiverses part of DC Omniverse

She specifically said they were 3 individual timelines. She merged them into one timeline. With Barry's help.

Originally posted by hunbu04
Galan are you trying to say Vertigo, Wildstorm and main DCU just timelime because the last time I check they were 3 different Multiverses part of DC Omniverse

Except she didn't even merge Vertigo fully, as the Vertigoverse still exists (Hellblazer is still going)...

And I'm p.sure Wildstorm earth was said to be part of the 52 multiverses following Infinite Crisis...

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Any reasoning?

I'm pretty sure Marquis was running rampant over another version of himself and playing wild and loose with the entire multiverse as a result.

A weak version of Jaspers set out a reality warp that infected his entire timeline out of control and it had to be shunted into non-existence. The stronger version had to be shunted out of reality itself by a Fury-bot. The bot "died" as a result, and Jaspers reformed himself a while later.


Franklin as a child was beating out multiple Celestials, which are just under Living Tribunal iirc. As an adult he somehow got a boost from his younger self and gained even more power.

And a mental projection of Legion's created a new world and put our current universe/reality in a box. He wasn't even aware of this, and the only reason anybody discovered anything was because it was a fledgling power/personality who didn't have time to make a fully perfect replacement.

As I said though, these are just speculations on my half about the characters I know of. I know next to nothing of these DC guys. I don't even remember that future timeline with Future Hourman and all that stuff.

Originally posted by KingD19
I'm pretty sure Marquis was running rampant over another version of himself and playing wild and loose with the entire multiverse as a result.

A weak version of Jaspers set out a reality warp that infected his entire timeline out of control and it had to be shunted into non-existence. The stronger version had to be shunted out of reality itself by a Fury-bot. The bot "died" as a result, and Jaspers reformed himself a while later.


Franklin as a child was beating out multiple Celestials, which are just under Living Tribunal iirc. As an adult he somehow got a boost from his younger self and gained even more power.

And a mental projection of Legion's created a new world and put our current universe/reality in a box. He wasn't even aware of this, and the only reason anybody discovered anything was because it was a fledgling power/personality who didn't have time to make a fully perfect replacement.

As I said though, these are just speculations on my half about the characters I know of. I know next to nothing of these DC guys. I don't even remember that future timeline with Future Hourman and all that stuff.

Well, Hourman with a fraction of the worlogog was said to be infinite and Extant was creating universes out of nothing. Hourman also stopped the big bang from happening. It's a tough fight, either way.

Max I believe was omniversal threat. So, i'll side with him.

And didn't ZH Parallax punk Extant? Parallax also had universal/multiuniversal feats.

Originally posted by Galan007
She specifically said they were 3 individual timelines. She merged them into one timeline. With Barry's help.

She also shot Phantom Stranger in the head with mystical guns.

She's seems like an legit fighter WITH massive reality warping feats. She's one of the most dangerous ones here. Time will tell.

Like I said, these DC guys are a mystery to me. But Jaspers powers were growing unchecked and he would have basically become a God over the entire Marvel Multiverse if he hadn't been stopped. And it took The Fury, a robot he himself created to do it.

Originally posted by Hulkbuster1
only thing dc copied was galactus=imperiex and debatable hulk=doomsday.

Orly??

FAjhtbe82PU

Originally posted by Odekahn
Orly??

FAjhtbe82PU

Is that the newest episode? Must watch!

Originally posted by Hulkbuster1
DC would win hands down for many factors but the biggest deciding factor is their originality which marvel severely lacks, also dc was first and marvel copy/steals their ideas:
presence/spector=one above all
dr. polaris=magneto
dr. manhattan=dr. strange
thor=superman
sentry=superman
gladator=superman
iron man=batman
abstracts=dc death,time,space,love entities.
thanos=darkseid
ideas to implement real god than marvel copied
sub-mariner=aquaman
besides the fact that during a golf course meeting dc was discussing ideas of cosmic heros to marvel writers than few months later fantastic four were born.
only thing dc copied was galactus=imperiex and debatable hulk=doomsday. just kill yourself

Originally posted by psycho gundam
just kill yourself
Don't scare off the new guy, psycho.

read that post

his opinion can stay in whatever dank basement it came from

One of those dank basements with like, a permanent surface of inch and a half musty water?

Some of those aren't far off, though. Instead of Superman for Gladiator it's Pre-Crisis Superboy. Actually the Imperial Guard was modeled after the Legion.

^ everyone knows that. even if marvel was a direct imitation of dc, that has nothing to do with this thread.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Is that the newest episode? Must watch!

It's one of the newer ones, and I don't care what anyone says... That's not Black Spider, that's Spider-man, lol.

That's got to be the most blantant ripoff I've seen since.... ever.

Yeah. That was a pretty blatant rip-off. Costume design, fighting style and abilities. Even mid-battle quips and snarky comments.

Originally posted by Odekahn It's one of the newer ones, and I don't care what anyone says... That's not Black Spider, that's Spider-man, lol. That's got to be the most blantant ripoff I've seen since.... ever.

is that in the comic or just the cartoon?

What's the actual fight here? There's a lot of "vs." entered into the OP.

Originally posted by KingD19
Yeah. That was a pretty blatant rip-off. Costume design, fighting style and abilities. Even mid-battle quips and snarky comments.

I facepalmed at his "web-slinging" comment.

Originally posted by Digi
What's the actual fight here? There's a lot of "vs." entered into the OP.

It's basically a separate team fight. Each DC warper is up against a Marvel counterpart warper. That's what I got anyway.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
is that in the comic or just the cartoon?

I'm not sure, I honestly don't know the character but several pictures on Google images are suspect, lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thor was modeled after superman but isn't a clone. Dr. Strange is a clone of Dr. Fate, hulk was inspired partly by solomon grundy. Iron man isn't a copy of batman by any means though. Pretty sure Thor was modeled after the Norse god...

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thor was modeled after superman but isn't a clone.

bump for Operator! Kind of a large fight, so which side seems more uber in the reality warping field?

DC:

Mxy (World's Funnest)
Parallax (Zero Hour)
Hourman 1M
Tim Hunter (Full powered)
Dharma
Max Faraday (Fully Powered)
Bat-Mite
Pandora

Marvel

HOM Wanda
Legion
Franklin (Adult)
Jamie Braddock
Marquis of Death
Molecule Man
Proteus
Mad Jim Jaspers

Originally posted by Galan007
She specifically said they were 3 individual timelines. She merged them into one timeline. With Barry's help. Lol. This guy.

Originally posted by Galan007
Lol. This guy.

Do you still believe she is the weakest character currently? Especially once she goes White Lantern?

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/PAN_zps5b2ddac0.jpg

Originally posted by Golgo13
Do you still believe she is the weakest character currently? Yes, she definitely isn't depicted as an uber cosmic entity. However, her(and Barry's) feat of recreating the DC continuum was much greater than I gave it credit for in this thread.

Curious to see the upgrade, though.

Originally posted by hunbu04
Galan are you trying to say Vertigo, Wildstorm and main DCU just timelime because the last time I check they were 3 different Multiverses part of DC Omniverse
Vertigo was never a separate universe/multiverse. All characters in Vertigo existed in the DCU new earth universe in exactly the same way with some VERY minor differences to their history- it's a time line thing, not a universe. Wildstorm I'll grant you

^ Flashpoint specifically portrayed them as separate continuities.

Originally posted by Golgo13
bump for Operator! Kind of a large fight, so which side seems more uber in the reality warping field?

DC:

Mxy (World's Funnest)
Parallax (Zero Hour)
Hourman 1M
Tim Hunter (Full powered)
Dharma
Max Faraday (Fully Powered)
Bat-Mite
Pandora

Marvel

HOM Wanda
Legion
Franklin (Adult)
Jamie Braddock
Marquis of Death
Molecule Man
Proteus
Mad Jim Jaspers

Battle-wise Mxy is well above everyone here except Owen, who even in his post-retcon form was able to achieve omniversal feats (but the down-side to him, is that he's established to be below abstracts who are <<< Mxy). And sure, HoM Wanda may as well exceed Mxy's power, but in a battle, she'd get stomped (just like someone like Tim, despite having multiversal-level warping abilities, would lose against a universal warper). Next comes MoD, who's above high end abstracts, but never showed any kind of casual multiversal level reality warping (he's significantly below Mxy)

The rest, no-one even comes close. Even assuming Legion has access to his most powerful personality (like Moria), she's a casual universal warper but not multiversal. Adult Frankin is established to be Galactus-level. Jamie Braddock is a casual universal-warper (capable of achieving multi-universal feats but not fully multiversal). Proteus gets destroyed in a microsecond (he has no place here). MJJ without his warp, would lose just as well. Destroying and recreating all DC realities in an instant, is well beyond any of those guys abilities.

Even assuming that Mxy goes down, Max even not tapping into his full potential was (potentially) about to destroy the whole omniverse, ZHP could have recreated a whole multiverse (though not on a whim), and Hourman (assuming he has the complete Worlogog) has multiversal level abilities as well (Dharma and bat mite are universal, Tim would lose in a battle, and Pandora is of no use here).

I think this is intended to be a battle, if it's a question who has more raw power, then it'll turn out differently (let me know).

Originally posted by operator616
^ Flashpoint specifically portrayed them as separate continuities.



Battle-wise Mxy is well above everyone here except Owen, who even in his post-retcon form was able to achieve omniversal feats (but the down-side to him, is that he's established to be below abstracts who are <<< Mxy). And sure, HoM Wanda may as well exceed Mxy's power, but in a battle, she'd get stomped (just like someone like Tim, despite having multiversal-level warping abilities, would lose against a universal warper). Next comes MoD, who's above high end abstracts, but never showed any kind of casual multiversal level reality warping (he's significantly below Mxy)

The rest, no-one even comes close. Even assuming Legion has access to his most powerful personality (like Moria), she's a casual universal warper but not multiversal. Adult Frankin is established to be Galactus-level. Jamie Braddock is a casual universal-warper (capable of achieving multi-universal feats but not fully multiversal). Proteus gets destroyed in a microsecond (he has no place here). MJJ without his warp, would lose just as well. Destroying and recreating all DC realities in an instant, is well beyond any of those guys abilities.

Even assuming that Mxy goes down, Max even not tapping into his full potential was (potentially) about to destroy the whole omniverse, ZHP could have recreated a whole multiverse (though not on a whim), and Hourman (assuming he has the complete Worlogog) has multiversal level abilities as well (Dharma and bat mite are universal, Tim would lose in a battle, and Pandora is of no use here).

I think this is intended to be a battle, if it's a question who has more raw power, then it'll turn out differently (let me know).

Which side would you go with?

^ I explained that id pick the DC side in a battle. But Marvel if we're judging them purely power-based.

Originally posted by operator616
^ I explained that id pick the DC side in a battle. But Marvel if we're judging them purely power-based.


Don't think Pandora will be the weakest. Looks like GOD himself will be giving her the power of Light.

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2014/01/20/preview-monday-trinity-of-sin-pandora-7-and-batman-66-7#1

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/TR_zpsa3f34493.jpg

^ Yeah, that seems interesting.

wait for real is anyone from dc taking out mad jim jaspers? yea i think hes the tipping point for marvel clear win because of him

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
wait for real is anyone from dc taking out mad jim jaspers? yea i think hes the tipping point for marvel clear win because of him WF Mxy has vastly superior feats

Originally posted by Cogito
WF Mxy has vastly superior feats

thats y i was asking never really read anything from him except a batman comic once thanks

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
wait for real is anyone from dc taking out mad jim jaspers? yea i think hes the tipping point for marvel clear win because of him

In a neutral ground, MJJ can't warp reality however he needs. It's only that within the warp he creates. Something like this for example (from the end of The Might World of Marvel v2 #9, pertaining captain britain):

http://i.imgur.com/LbqUyjx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0PZorTe.jpg

MJJ's scale for the warp is confirmed to be omniversal potentially (stated on panel in the Jaspers warp arc) and then he returned in X-Men die by the sword, where he was merged with the fury, he was stated to be able to destroy all existence (the Exiles handbooks confirm that he threatened the whole omniverse).

But point is: in a neutral battle ground, he loses without a doubt.

Originally posted by operator616
In a neutral ground, MJJ can't warp reality however he needs. It's only that within the warp he creates. Something like this for example (from the end of The Might World of Marvel v2 #9, pertaining captain britain):

http://i.imgur.com/LbqUyjx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0PZorTe.jpg

MJJ's scale for the warp is confirmed to be omniversal potentially (stated on panel in the Jaspers warp arc) and then he returned in X-Men die by the sword, where he was merged with the fury, he was stated to be able to destroy all existence (the Exiles handbooks confirm that he threatened the whole omniverse).

But point is: in a neutral battle ground, he loses without a doubt.

So, Max Faraday>>MJJ?

^ Yes if we're equating the terms, because Max doesn't require that stipulation to warp reality. And let's all not forget that Max was capable of destroying the omniverse likewise, stated in Divine Right #7:

http://i.imgur.com/VM1e6M4.jpg

(this was also later confirmed in Divine Intervention)

So we know that his scale was omniversal.

And at that point, he wasn't tapping into his full potential power.

Team Marvel, hands down.

DC

Originally posted by Galan007
^ She merged 3 timelines into one timeline... And she needed Barry's help to do so.

That said, Pandora is one of the weakest characters in this thread.

Not anymore. Pandora can create/destroy Multiverses on a whim now.

^ No, she can't.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ No, she can't.

That's what one of her aspects said. Was there special circumstances?

I'll take Gluttony's word with a grain of salt until I see the feat preformed on panel. /shrug

Now, Pandora stated that every time she killed her aspects(which she'd previously perceived as The 7 Deadly Sins), the multiverse essentially collapsed and started anew--similar to the cycle of Ragnarok, but on a much larger scale:
http://i.imgur.com/GqmJqQP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RrXlq3J.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Msw7FPr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3Bxzl3n.jpg

When Pandora reabsorbed said aspects back into herself, she effectively stopped the cycle and allowed the multiverse to flourish without this potential destruction looming over it.

quiet you. no one cares. only operator's opinion matters here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thor was modeled after superman but isn't a clone.

No offense, but this is one of the silliest claims ever.

Originally posted by leonidas
quiet you. no one cares. only operator's opinion matters here. http://gifshost.com/022012/1342637635_political_speech_bitchslap.gif

Originally posted by Golgo13
bump for Operator!

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
No offense, but this is one of the silliest claims ever.
What? When Stan himself said so?

WTF does this Stan know, Greg Pak is the only prophet I follow.

By the way, How many time lines does DC has?
Pandra merged three time lines with one.
But, I heared that each universe has divergent timelines.
H'el created countless time lines.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What? When Stan himself said so?
Yes. It actually reeks of a hate+desperation combo from an objective viewpoint.

Didn't stan lee wanted to call thor, Super-God in the beginning? Also he has this Captain Marvel human-god thing going on, the red cape, flight strength etc. I think it was inspired by Thor from the norse myth, Captain Marvel (the transformation) and Superman.

Originally posted by Hulkbuster1
DC would win hands down for many factors but the biggest deciding factor is their originality which marvel severely lacks, also dc was first and marvel copy/steals their ideas:
presence/spector=one above all
dr. polaris=magneto
dr. manhattan=dr. strange
thor=superman
sentry=superman
gladator=superman
iron man=batman
abstracts=dc death,time,space,love entities.
thanos=darkseid
ideas to implement real god than marvel copied
sub-mariner=aquaman
besides the fact that during a golf course meeting dc was discussing ideas of cosmic heros to marvel writers than few months later fantastic four were born.
only thing dc copied was galactus=imperiex and debatable hulk=doomsday.

WTF are you on.
as a name Marvel existed before DC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Mystery_Comics both companies and their creations have been around as long as each other.
The idea of one true god/supremem being predates any fiction ever written.
Manhattan is nothing like Strange, one is magic and one is science based and completely different power set. Never mind the fact that Dr Strange first appeared 18 years before Dr Manhattan was even a concept in the mind of Alan Moore.
Thor has very little in common with Superman.
Iron Man even less with Batman.
Superman himself was a copy of another character from a 1930 novel called Gladiator.
Namor's first appearance was two years before Aquaman (who appeared in 1941's More Fun Comics 73 while Namor appeared in who first appeared in the number one issue of the Marvel mystery comics I linked above in 39.

The fact is most of the comics creations you've mentioned weren't created by comics companies but by comics writers who worked for both companies but signed deals to get better payed that gave their creations to the parent company they created them for. Many were actually created by the same people for both

I hate it when people carry on as though any one publisher is better than the other on some creative stance. NONE of them do it any bloody differently.

^Never try to talk sense to anyone with 'Hulk' in their name

Originally posted by krisblaze
^Never try to talk sense to anyone with 'Hulk' in their name

Yeah I should know better but I only got a couple of posts into the thread, saw that and already had a bee in my but.

Originally posted by Golgo13
This isn't a team fight. Here are the matchups...

Marquis of Death
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/1912748-marquis_large.jpg

vs

Hourman 1M
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/83104/1574728-hourman_and_worlogog_large.jpg

HOM Wanda
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/85218/2247470-scarlet_large.jpg

vs

World's Funnest Mxy
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/418127-AlexRossDCUniverse_large.jpg

Legion
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60352/1465893-81021comic_storystory_full_6994273._large.jpg

vs

Pandora
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/108144/2152809-flashpoint_mystery_woman_large.jpg

vs

Molecule Man
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/104470/2154590-recent_mm_large.jpeg

vs

TAO
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/308/1230137-tao_large.jpg

MoD , Hourman 1 Million really isn't a reality warper. He was never shown (that I recall) using the full power of the Worlogog only the portion he kept of it. The only reality warping feats with it, I'm aware if required more and were performed by Extant

I'd give the second one to MXY.

As o the four way comes down to IMO Tao and Legion with Legion taking line honors (maybe close )

Originally posted by KingD19
First off, your answer has almost nothing to do with the question.

Second, you've got a lot of stuff wrong there.

Namor was around 2-3 years before Aquaman.

Dr. Strange predated Manhattan and the Watchmen by roughly 20 years.

And how is Doomsday debatable? A monster of uncontrollable rage that gets stronger and more powerful? The only difference is that Doomsday is evil and he adapts and becomes immune instead of just getting stronger.

How is Iron Man a clone/copy of Batman? Aside from being rich and geniuses, they have nothing in common. And they aren't the only rich geniuses in comics, there are literally tons of those.

Magneto only debuted a few months after Polaris, and aside from similar powers, is nothing like him.

Thor is not in any way a Superman clone. Sentry and Gladiator yes, but not Thor.


You pretty much stole my thunder...


MARVEL's characters overall are much too powerful to not win this matchup.

Originally posted by operator616
^ Flashpoint specifically portrayed them as separate continuities.



Battle-wise Mxy is well above everyone here except Owen, who even in his post-retcon form was able to achieve omniversal feats (but the down-side to him, is that he's established to be below abstracts who are <<< Mxy). And sure, HoM Wanda may as well exceed Mxy's power, but in a battle, she'd get stomped (just like someone like Tim, despite having multiversal-level warping abilities, would lose against a universal warper). Next comes MoD, who's above high end abstracts, but never showed any kind of casual multiversal level reality warping (he's significantly below Mxy)

The rest, no-one even comes close. Even assuming Legion has access to his most powerful personality (like Moria), she's a casual universal warper but not multiversal. Adult Frankin is established to be Galactus-level. Jamie Braddock is a casual universal-warper (capable of achieving multi-universal feats but not fully multiversal). Proteus gets destroyed in a microsecond (he has no place here). MJJ without his warp, would lose just as well. Destroying and recreating all DC realities in an instant, is well beyond any of those guys abilities.

Even assuming that Mxy goes down, Max even not tapping into his full potential was (potentially) about to destroy the whole omniverse, ZHP could have recreated a whole multiverse (though not on a whim), and Hourman (assuming he has the complete Worlogog) has multiversal level abilities as well (Dharma and bat mite are universal, Tim would lose in a battle, and Pandora is of no use here).

I think this is intended to be a battle, if it's a question who has more raw power, then it'll turn out differently (let me know).




I guess making someone their herald, makes them your equal...

Originally posted by Tony Stark
You pretty much stole my thunder...


MARVEL's characters overall are much too powerful to not win this matchup.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Eh, wikipedia? Here is Stan's interview as a whole.



If you think he was trying to make Thor stronger than Hulk, you might as well conclude that Thor was smarter than reed richards. Do you think that was the case?

Yup, wikipedia. I know it's (rightly) frowned upon for the characters, but Stan's a human and it's just so easy.

And you missed the point, that point being "Stan says a lot of things". Fact is, Stan is not the all-encompassing creative genius he's made out to be and he doesn't have carte blanche on stating the definitive case for 90% of the Marvel universe (as people seem to believe).

If you want to argue that the visual aspect of the red cape came from Superman, knock yourself out. If you can point to a single facet of the actual character of Thor that comes from Superman, I'm genuinely interested in hearing it.

Stay on target, champ. Mr. Fantastic isn't being discussed here.

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
Yup, wikipedia. I know it's (rightly) frowned upon for the characters, but Stan's a human and it's just so easy.

And you missed the point, that point being "Stan says a lot of things". Fact is, Stan is not the all-encompassing creative genius he's made out to be and he doesn't have carte blanche on stating the definitive case for 90% of the Marvel universe (as people seem to believe).

If you want to argue that the visual aspect of the red cape came from Superman, knock yourself out. If you can point to a single facet of the actual character of Thor that comes from Superman, I'm genuinely interested in hearing it.

Stay on target, champ. Mr. Fantastic isn't being discussed here. This picture is from 1905.

http://mysticalnumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Thor_and_the_Midgard-Serpent.jpg

Supes is a Thor clone, confirmed.

Originally posted by Mindset
This picture is from 1905.

http://mysticalnumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Thor_and_the_Midgard-Serpent.jpg

Supes is a Thor clone, confirmed.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
I guess making someone their herald, makes them your equal...

Franklin didn't make Galactus his herald in the same sense that someone like Surfer is a herald to Galactus. He merely restored him, and he needed child Franklin's power to do so too.

If you just look at the AF-Galactus/Mad Celestials battle you'll realize that they were on the same level. It was outright stated that AF couldn't have taken 3 Celestials. If Galactus was literally his "herald", then Franklin could have handled 3 Celestials with one hand tied behind his back.

If there is any argument to be made that Franklin > Galactus it's the fact that in FF v2/Fantastic Four v4 it was established that Franklin's power decreases whenever he isn't in his own time period, which would mean that Adult Franklin wasn't at full power when facing those Celestials but i doubt Hickman intended it to be that way when he wrote the battle, especially considering that it was Fraction, not Hickman, who was responsible for telling us that detail about Franklin later on.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'll take Gluttony's word with a grain of salt until I see the feat preformed on panel. /shrug

Now, Pandora stated that every time she killed her aspects(which she'd previously perceived as The 7 Deadly Sins), the multiverse essentially collapsed and started anew--similar to the cycle of Ragnarok, but on a much larger scale:
http://i.imgur.com/GqmJqQP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RrXlq3J.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Msw7FPr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3Bxzl3n.jpg


You posted the feat yourself (2nd and 3rd scans). It's all there.

Originally posted by operator616
You posted the feat yourself (2nd and 3rd scans). It's all there. It was an inadvertent action that resulted from Pandora destroying her alternates.

This is not the same as whimsically/purposefully destroying & recreating the multiverse with a gesture--which she has never done.

Originally posted by Galan007
It was an inadvertent action that resulted from Pandora destroying her alternates.

This is not the same as whimsically/purposefully destroying & recreating the multiverse with a gesture--which she has never done.


I didn't see anything that would suggest that. Where exactly was it stated that it was an inadvertent action?

This is what an aspect of Pandora stated:

http://i.imgur.com/1JnD8iz.jpg?1

"With no more than a flutter of my eyelid i will destroy the multiverse"

And here we see her actually implement her magic to end everything.

http://i.imgur.com/9yzXCYH.jpg

And then come your scans where we seen on panel, Pandora standing over Earth, destroying it, and the destruction eventually goes on and destroys the whole multiverse.

It's pretty clear that Pandora was intended to be the multiversal destroyer/creator, at least to me. And it explains Flashpoint pretty well.

^ Except she(Gluttony) didn't destroy the multiverse--as evident by the rest of the issue taking place withIN the multiverse.

Hyperbole, clearly.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Except she(Gluttony) didn't destroy the multiverse--as evident by the rest of the issue which takes place withIN the multiverse.

Hyperbole, clearly.

It actually didn't take place within the same multiverse hence why the "Baltimore, Maryland" location being written differently.

Look at this scan:

http://i.imgur.com/RrXlq3J.jpg

Notice how they all take place in Baltimore, Maryland? But they are written differently to indicate that each was taking place in a different multiverse (ones prior to the current).

^ I took that as alternate universes, not multiverses.

Considering that the comic made it clear that each Pandora was the destroyer of their respective multiverse (previous ones), im pretty sure that each of those were meant to represent different (previous) multiverses.

And it was confirmed that there were multiverses before this one when Pandora said that "this multiverse is no more perfect than any that came before" (id post the scan but it's taking too damn long to upload, i have access to a very bad network currently; but im sure you have the comic so look it up). Which establishes that those were alternate (previous) multiverses.

There isn't any doubt in my mind that those were meant to represent different multiverses, and each of those Pandora's were directly responsible for destroying them.

Hm, I disagree. I think that comment made by Pandora was simply referencing pre-Flashpoint continuity. Perhaps you'll end up being correct IF further info is revealed, but as of now, all of Pandora's dialogue seems to be suggestive of 'a' multiverse being affected--not multiple multiverses. Imo.

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
Yup, wikipedia. I know it's (rightly) frowned upon for the characters, but Stan's a human and it's just so easy.

And you missed the point, that point being "Stan says a lot of things". Fact is, Stan is not the all-encompassing creative genius he's made out to be and he doesn't have carte blanche on stating the definitive case for 90% of the Marvel universe (as people seem to believe).

If you want to argue that the visual aspect of the red cape came from Superman, knock yourself out. If you can point to a single facet of the actual character of Thor that comes from Superman, I'm genuinely interested in hearing it.

Stay on target, champ. Mr. Fantastic isn't being discussed here.
Well, Stan is the creator of marvel Thor. So I'd take his words over you any day of the week. But this general hypocrisy of Stan's interview on wikipedia being legit but his actual words in a comic being not is hilarious.

Not just cape, the whole "Jane foster loves Thor but ignores Don Blake" thing, a weak human identity and being the strongest hero initially. Jim Shooter actually called Thor marvel's superman. But you know better than Stan Lee and Jim Shooter apparently.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well, Stan is the creator of marvel Thor. So I'd take his words over you any day of the week. But this general hypocrisy of Stan's interview on wikipedia being legit but his actual words in a comic being not is hilarious.

Not just cape, the whole "Jane foster loves Thor but ignores Don Blake" thing, a weak human identity and being the strongest hero initially. Jim Shooter actually called Thor marvel's superman. But you know better than Stan Lee and Jim Shooter apparently.

Co-creator (it's a common theme). And I may as well have put giant neon signs around the point of posting that quote, you'd still ignore it.

Flip the wording in your third sentence and, presto, you're the hypocrite. Hence the magic of Stan.

Jim Shooter had no hand in Thor's creation. Besides that, there is no implication in that reference that Thor was MODELED after Superman beyond your own biased extrapolation. I'll take the actual history of the character over your word (!).

So, Thor's romantic relationship defines the character's initial development? Not powersets, origin, physical character design...none of that? Are we also going to ignore the fact that Superman's relationship with Lois Lane is just a comic spin on an old literary trope (it's called a "love triangle"?

Dude, you WANT Thor to be modeled after Superman. You ignored everything I actually said in my last reply. I've said before in another thread, I'm fine with being proven wrong. But if you have to do it with any other method than just responding to what I actually say, I'm pretty much done.

Sorry to necro the thread, but I haven't been here in a while and I wanted to revisit this one....I'm in a foul mood

Originally posted by GroggyGrunt
Co-creator (it's a common theme). And I may as well have put giant neon signs around the point of posting that quote, you'd still ignore it. Wut?

Are you related to carver by any chance? Because you're spouting nonsense pretty well.

So you don't take the words of a writer who had a large history with the character? Nice to know proofs have no effect on you.

Its a facet of the character. Lets see, a weak and timid Don Blake transforms into the Mighty Thor with a lightning strike (fusion of superman and cap marvel) and who is sent to Earth from Asgard by his father (a spin of superman being sent to earth). Sounds similar?

No, but who said Superman wasn't inspired by characters before him?
Why would I want that? Thor is the blandest character you can think of in modern comics. Yeah, your replies are just "Nuh-uh, I don't like this proof so I ignore it." Good job.

Lulz.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Wut?

Are you related to carver by any chance? Because you're spouting nonsense pretty well.

So you don't take the words of a writer who had a large history with the character? Nice to know proofs have no effect on you.

Its a facet of the character. Lets see, a weak and timid Don Blake transforms into the Mighty Thor with a lightning strike (fusion of superman and cap marvel) and who is sent to Earth from Asgard by his father (a spin of superman being sent to earth). Sounds similar?

No, but who said Superman wasn't inspired by characters before him?
Why would I want that? Thor is the blandest character you can think of in modern comics. Yeah, your replies are just "Nuh-uh, I don't like this proof so I ignore it." Good job.

Lulz.

So, basically, you're incapable of admitting that you're wrong.

"Wut?" Back at ya.

"Related to blahblahblah" Make your point. Obviously, I'm not Carver.

We're talking about the creation of a character. No, someone who wrote after the fact has no bearing.

See above. No, elements introduced after his creation have no bearing. You were arguing that he was modeled after Superman. That would imply direct correlation between Superman and Thor's character upon his creation. You have yet to make a single point in that regard. The Don Blake tomfoolery didn't exist at his inception.

I don't particularly care about your opinions of Thor. I don't even really like him. But you stated that he was modeled after Superman...just, I dunno...just because. You haven't backed it up, you've been provided with a quote from his "creator" (your words) that explained his creation with no mention of Superman (but you have contradictory quotes, so yours are right and mine are wrong)

You haven't provided any proof that Thor was CREATED with Superman in mind. You have yet to provide a single shred of evidence that the creation of Thor was modeled around Superman.

You dig Superman. Awesome. That doesn't excuse you from the basic rules of debate between two human beings.

To really hone in on what we originally started discussing, I'll say it plainly....no aspect of Thor's CREATION can be contributed directly to Superman. I'll still give you the red cape if it makes you feel better.

Yeah, this isn't worth any effort.

Agree to disagree. I don't know why me repeating Thor's own creator got your jimmy rustled, but I don't give a damn.

Good day to you.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, this isn't worth any effort.

Agree to disagree. I don't know why me repeating Thor's own creator got your jimmy rustled, but I don't give a damn.

Good day to you.

No hard feelings.