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Who wins and why?

Vision.

He's more of a ladies man.

They actually already had a bit of a scrimmage. Visions beam is proven to be ineffective against Jim, and he was only momentarily staggered by his phasing. I think I'm still leaning towards vision though.



Originally posted by namorsubby

Invader's perspective
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/th_InvadersAnnual1_24.jpghttp://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/th_InvadersAnnual1_25.jpghttp://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/th_InvadersAnnual1_27.jpghttp://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/th_InvadersAnnual1_28.jpghttp://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/th_InvadersAnnual1_29.jpg

The Vision should win everytime. He throws down with characters like Thor, Wonder Man, and Hyperion. What can Hammond do to him?

Originally posted by tkitna
The Vision should win everytime. He throws down with characters like Thor, Wonder Man, and Hyperion. What can Hammond do to him? Namor has fought Thor, Hulk, Beta, Etc and hammond has many fights with him, some of which he won. He's fought wonder man, Thor, sentry, Thena the eternal, killed Stark, beaten Namor, floored the mighty avengers with his flame after beating sentry, etc. Also I believe I've already shown that they've fought. If it is as one-sided as you seem to imply, why was he not quickly swatted like some fly?

Originally posted by namorsubby
Namor has fought Thor, Hulk, Beta, Etc and hammond has many fights with him, some of which he won. He's fought wonder man, Thor, sentry, Thena the eternal, killed Stark, beaten Namor, floored the mighty avengers with his flame after beating sentry, etc. Also I believe I've already shown that they've fought. If it is as one-sided as you seem to imply, why was he not quickly swatted like some fly?

First of all, I know you like to bring up the Sentry fight, but you know as well as I do that the mind game of overloading Bob was an easy way to write him out of the picture. Thinking Hammond could take the Sentry is just silly. As for Namor, yeah I can see where fire could do him some harm. I dont know how he's done against Wonder Man or Thor, but i'm sure there was something up with that. I dont know who Thena is and killing Stark doesnt seem like a big deal to me.

Vision wins everytime. 10/10

Originally posted by tkitna
First of all, I know you like to bring up the Sentry fight, but you know as well as I do that the mind game of overloading Bob was an easy way to write him out of the picture. Thinking Hammond could take the Sentry is just silly. As for Namor, yeah I can see where fire could do him some harm. I dont know how he's done against Wonder Man or Thor, but i'm sure there was something up with that. I dont know who Thena is and killing Stark doesnt seem like a big deal to me.

Vision wins everytime. 10/10 mind game? Lol, what? How do you classify that as a "mind game"?

Namors skin is shown in the majority of their encounters to be invulnerable to dehydration. It's even been flat out stated as fire-proof, so you can't use the whole fire evaporates water thing here. It's his sheer heat output

Killing IM is nothing? What about when he floored the rest of the mighty avengers with sheer heat? And why would I have to think he could, when he did best sentry? Also why did you not address the fight they already had? You should also know hammond and vision are one and the same physically, literally.

Before you just ramble off a list of impressive foes vision has fought to support that he stomps, you might wanna consider the actual match-up, or at least the fact that he has fought and beaten those who have fought some of the same people you named, or maybe consider who hes fought as well(if you wanna use abc logic)

GA Human Torch is the shit.

Does Jim have any answer to Vision's density control perchance?

That actually was why I said I was leaning toward vision. There bodies are identical because Vision IS Jim, but the ability to make himself more dense would make him more durable, and hes definitely stronger. I think jims maximum heat output could overwhelm him though. It s been shown effective against more durable foes.

Originally posted by namorsubby
mind game? Lol, what? How do you classify that as a "mind game

He blew fire at him and bluffed that it would overload Sentrys powers. Fire for Gods sake. We're talking about a person who's withstood way more than Hammond could ever conjure up and the writer had him fly away sobbing, as usual, or Sentry would have ripped him apart and the story would have been over. What dont you understand? If Sentry's in his right mind, I ask you, who would win between these two?



My fault for thinking a water based character might be susceptible to heat. I guess that doesnt pertain to that battle.



Not familiar with this, so I i'll have to concede on this. If it happened in the Invaders/Avengers book then I can understand why it happened, but otherwise, i'd love to see the scans.



What did he do to best Sentry? He shot him with a blast of fire and nothing else happened. Sentry flew off thinking that he would unleash enough energy to obliterate the world less Hammond. I know you have a man crush on Hammond, but I dare you to make a thread with Hammond against Sentry and see how many people choose your guy. Even you know what happened, but refuse to admit. It was truly the easiest way to get rid of a character that would have ended the story in a matter of panels. Sentry can go toe to toe with Photon, but has trouble with Hammond? Give me a freaking break.



So Hammond has the density and strentgh to stand up to class 100 heros all day long? Sorry, never saw that from him.



I'm sure you created a respect thread for Hammond, so I guess i'll have to go and check out the reasons in the story that would have these incidents happen. As for now, i'll rely on my memories of how he was a second rate Human Torch in the Invader comics.

Lol...please pump the breaks man. We can still manage to be civil here. I can tell from your sig you like sentry. And I'm obviously a hammond fan, but lets not start accusing one another of being fanboys or having man crushes.

1. Hammond didn't bluff sentry. He somehow transferred power to him. it was obvious some sort of reaction occured from seeing sentry in those scans. Theyre in my thread. Btw I never said jim could beat sentry(only that he bested him in their encounter) or vision for the matter. So please, try to control yourself.

As for namor, his skin has been stated fireproof, and hes been resistant to his flame on many occasions. Hes also a 100+ class who jim has taken blows from many times. You also never addressed the fact that he floored the mighty avengers with heat, or that they already fought (which I posted). Also the fact that he killed stark with heat or the fact that he has the same body and is just as durable as vision in a non-dense form.


Im still waiting for you to address the actual match-up.

What matchup are you talking about? The Vision? I dont see any possible way for Hammond to win. I've already said that. If your referring to the scans you've provided, it seems to me that Vision could pretty much take him at any time. Hammond withstood a solar blast from Vision and that was it for him. Vision took the offense once and downed Hammond. Whats there to talk about?

Originally posted by tkitna
What matchup are you talking about? The Vision? I dont see any possible way for Hammond to win. I've already said that. If your referring to the scans you've provided, it seems to me that Vision could pretty much take him at any time. Hammond withstood a solar blast from Vision and that was it for him. Vision took the offense once and downed Hammond. Whats there to talk about? the avengers baited the invaders into visions sneak attack......and it still only momentarily staggered jim.

vision has the same body as jim and is only more durable in a more dense form.

I think hammonds heat can overwhelm him.

jim has taken 100 class blows as well.

Visions beam has no effect on jim.

Like I said I'm leaning towards vision....but this is not a stomp.

Look what his heat did to these avengers
http://s202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/?action=view&current=AvengersInvaders-010-1.jpg

Killing stark(way before avengers/invaders
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Avengers132-14.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Avengers132-15.jpg

Kang seems to think torch is a threat to visions person
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Avengers131-10.jpg

Jim's output being enough to briefly stagger an energy absorber/flying brick like Carol is pretty impressive.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Jim's output being enough to briefly stagger an energy absorber/flying brick like Carol is pretty impressive.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. At first I was going to say that going Nova while standing two feet away from everybody should have staggered them, but then I thought if Carol actually fell down from it, it was a little better feat than I first gave it credit for.

Still think Vision takes him 10/10. Hammonds heat might get to him but not before he reaches him and phases. I could be wrong.

Jims strengh/durability level(which is often inconsistently defined) as compared to vision is the reason why I'd be more inclined to take him. Hammonds heat could end this, but physically, vision can take more and dish more out.....at least according to consistent strengh/durability showings.