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Thoughts?

v=CZ-4gnNz0vc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Thoughts?



Fixed:

CZ-4gnNz0vc

Funny as hell.

fairly effective as a propaganda tool, though the gimmick got a bit old by the end of 4 and a half minutes of essentially the same A-B set up.

few of the arguments are better than superficial, I found myself grimacing at even the ones I agreed with. Probably not going to convince anyone, but will be something the converted will enjoy(?)

Shit was weak. Too long for one.. having to repeat that damn line over and over. He made his points though.


8iJqjQbrocA

Originally posted by Mairuzu
Shit was weak. Too long for one.. having to repeat that damn line over and over. He made his points though.

It will get cut down to 30 sec. and we will hear it over, and over again.

If I wanted America to fail I would be too late, someone beat me to it.

Perception often clouds the better part of reality in these matters. Not saying things are perfect - they aren't - but a lot of things than they've ever been in history in America.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Thoughts?


he's a loudmouth repeating GOP falsehood memes. that was my first and last thought on him.

hahahaha

"when it's cold out i'd call it climate change"

Couldn't get through it. Too much bullshit.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Couldn't get through it. Too much bullshit.

What did you disagree with and why?

Originally posted by Mairuzu
What did you disagree with and why?

The truth hurts.

seriously, you guys were actually watching this, nodding along, thinking "gee, what a well thought out and cogent argument"?

Originally posted by Mairuzu
What did you disagree with and why?
Well the notion that a free market is the "only way" to uplift the poor springs to mind.

I'm skeptical of every form of economics, I question if it's even a science, but I always get nauseated when people try to make it seem so simple like this guy.

He completely dismisses the arguments for human-caused global warming and treats it as if it's brainwashing.

There's a point where he says "I wouldn't take by force" and implies that not doing so means betraying your country and "making it fail".

I'm surprised you're making a rise out of me criticizing this, considering he's essentially preaching a Neo-Con message. But I guess you don't know your own politics all that well.

Edit: Everything about this video is preachy and demagogic, there are no arguments, it's a series of emotional appeals designed to arouse the passions of likeminded individuals.

Now, I'm of the belief that all political messages are this way, but this guy is more extreme than others in that he doesn't even attempt to make a real proposition, just strawman the opposition.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Well the notion that a free market is the "only way" to uplift the poor springs to mind.

What would be a better way? Shouldn't there always be a free market?

Originally posted by Omega Vision

I'm skeptical of every form of economics, I question if it's even a science, but I always get nauseated when people try to make it seem so simple like this guy. I suppose he has to keep within the duration of the video.


Originally posted by Omega Vision

He completely dismisses the arguments for human-caused global warming and treats it as if it's brainwashing.

So you're a firm believe in global warming then?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
There's a point where he says "I wouldn't take by force" and implies that not doing so means betraying your country and "making it fail".

I'm surprised you're making a rise out of me criticizing this, considering he's essentially preaching a Neo-Con message. But I guess you don't know your own politics all that well. Lol I love the conclusion you bring out of a simple question I asked stoned

Originally posted by Omega Vision


Edit: Everything about this video is preachy and demagogic, there are no arguments, it's a series of emotional appeals designed to arouse the passions of likeminded individuals.

Now, I'm of the belief that all political messages are this way, but this guy is more extreme than others in that he doesn't even attempt to make a real proposition, just strawman the opposition.

Thats a very strong belief. What other political messages are there that back up that claim?

Originally posted by Mairuzu
...So you're a firm believe in global warming then?...

Does anyone remember global cooling? By in the 70's, all the scientists were saying we are heading into an ice age. It seems they were wrong.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Does anyone remember global cooling? By in the 70's, all the scientists were saying we are heading into an ice age. It seems they were wrong.

LoL, you're so old.

But I do recall hearing that some group of scientist proposed covering miles of Antarctica with some reflective particles in order to raise global climate by a degree or so. Been some time; don't recall the specifics.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
What would be a better way? Shouldn't there always be a free market?

Wow, a textbook case of begging the question.

A totally free market (which isn't necessarily what he's advocating himself) has nothing inherent in it that elevates the poor, and to suggest that it elevates the poor more efficiently than socialist wealth redistribution (and before you strawman me, I'm an opponent on principle of most forms of WR) is just ludicrous.


No, he has to keep from saying anything of substance because he's a demagogue.


You'd have to be completely scientifically illiterate to not believe that global warming exists at this point, and there's strong evidence that human activities have a major causal role.


Your response was a typical "what's your position so that I can try to counter it?" question.


Every political message is normative. Normative claims are all emotional. I'm with David Hume in most cases.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Does anyone remember global cooling? By in the 70's, all the scientists were saying we are heading into an ice age. It seems they were wrong.
Hey does anyone remember Phlogiston Theory back in the 18th century? They were wrong. That's an argument against modern chemistry, right?

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, you're so old.

But I do recall hearing that some group of scientist proposed covering miles of Antarctica with some reflective particles in order to raise global climate by a degree or so. Been some time; don't recall the specifics.

That is the only reason I don't believe in man made global warming. It's not because we humans are somehow not capable of screwing everything up, we are, but we don't know what we are talking about.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
There's a point where he says "I wouldn't take by force" and implies that not doing so means betraying your country and "making it fail".



Correction.

"I'd start with energy... I'd cut off Americans supply of cheap abundant engery, I couldnt take it by force so I'd make americans feel guilty about using the engery that heats their homes, fuels their cars, runs their business and powers their economy. I'd make cheap energy expensive so that expensive energy would seem cheap. I would empower unelected beurocrats to all but outlaw americans most abundant sources of engery. After banning its use in american id make it illegal for american companies to ship it overseas.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is the only reason I don't believe in man made global warming. It's not because we humans are somehow not capable of screwing everything up, we are, but we don't know what we are talking about.
So you don't believe in science at all?

Originally posted by Mairuzu
Correction.

"I'd start with energy... I'd cut off Americans supply of cheap abundant engery, I couldnt take it by force so I'd make americans feel guilty about using the engery that heats their homes, fuels their cars, runs their business and powers their economy. I'd make cheap energy expensive so that expensive energy would seem cheap. I would empower unelected beurocrats to all but outlaw americans most abundant sources of engery. After banning its use in american id make it illegal for american companies to ship it overseas.
I misheard him there. My mistake.

Still, he doesn't explain how we're supposed to become energy self-sufficient.

Are we supposed to make every car run on coal?

He's referring to high energy costs which is slowing down the economy as it always does. You realize that?



Don't be so paranoid. I was questioning you out of curiosity, not to shoot your opinion down. Your orignal post in here had me wondering what was so wrong about the video stoned

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So you don't believe in science at all?

I don't believe in your religion of science.

In your religion of science, 80% of scientists agreeing on something makes it true, but in real science that doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't believe in your religion of science.

In your religion of science, 80% of scientists agreeing on something makes it true, but in real science that doesn't matter.

Lots of people believing something doesn't make it not true any more than it makes it true. Meanwhile scientists have piles of work they have done researching the subject.

Also no one has mention the relevance of consensus among scientists, only their evidence, which makes your comment a strawman.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
He's referring to high energy costs which is slowing down the economy as it always does. You realize that?



Don't be so paranoid. I was questioning you out of curiosity, not to shoot your opinion down. Your orignal post in here had me wondering what was so wrong about the video stoned
Right, what's his solution?

And your passive-aggressiveness is fun as always.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't believe in your religion of science.

In your religion of science, 80% of scientists agreeing on something makes it true, but in real science that doesn't matter.
By calling science a religion you hope to elevate religion to a science. Very sneaky.

You need to read "Division of Cognitive Labor" by Philip Kitcher. It argues that irrationality of individual scientists contributes to a rational scientific community.

Edit: Defending the principles of science makes me feel all icky.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Right, what's his solution?

And your passive-aggressiveness is fun as always.




You realize the title of the video is called "If I wanted America to fail" and simply that.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
..By calling science a religion you hope to elevate religion to a science. Very sneaky...

No! I'm pointing out that your FAITH is showing.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No! I'm pointing out that your FAITH is showing.
Where? Point to it.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
You realize the title of the video is called "If I wanted America to fail" and simply that.
Yes, and? My claim was that he isn't making any factual assertions, thanks for agreeing with me.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Where? Point to it.

So, you don't believe in Man-Made Global Worming? Sorry, I had you confused.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, you don't believe in Man-Made Global Worming? Sorry, I had you confused.
Belief and faith are different things.

An entire branch of philosophy studies belief and qualifies it. Faith is just faith.

Faith is belief in the absence of justification, IMO.

If I believe in man-caused global warming when there's significant scientific evidence supporting it then it's not the same as believing that God created the world in six days because it's written in an old book that ripped off the Epic of Gilgamesh.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Where? Point to it.


Yes, and? My claim was that he isn't making any factual assertions, thanks for agreeing with me.


Agreeing with you on what?


His last point. "If I wanted America to fail I suppose I wouldn't change a thing."

The video is made to make people think, at least that is my opinion on its purpose. This one man making a youtube video isn't going to bring the solutions on every one of these problems haermm

Or any of them.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
Agreeing with you on what?


His last point. "If I wanted America to fail I suppose I wouldn't change a thing."

The video is made to make people think, at least that is my opinion on its purpose. This one man making a youtube video isn't going to bring the solutions on every one of these problems haermm
It's not supposed to make people think, it's supposed to galvanize popular support for this person's views.

It's an emotional message.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Belief and faith are different things.

An entire branch of philosophy studies belief and qualifies it. Faith is just faith.

Faith is belief in the absence of justification, IMO.

If I believe in man-caused global warming when there's significant scientific evidence supporting it then it's not the same as believing that God created the world in six days because it's written in an old book that ripped off the Epic of Gilgamesh.

So, you can't have faith unless you are a Christian? You do know that I am not a Christian.

Why don't you believe in global cooling? Oh! that's right, scientists were wrong about that, but there is No Way they could ever be wrong anything now.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It's not supposed to make people think, it's supposed to galvanize popular support for this person's views.

It's an emotional message.

How do you think that support would be shown? What will be the outcome of this shown by supporters?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, you can't have faith unless you are a Christian? You do know that I am not a Christian.

Why don't you believe in global cooling? Oh! that's right, scientists were wrong about that, but there is No Way they could ever be wrong anything now.
No, I was using the Bible as an example to apply to all religions that make untestable claims.

There's a difference between the rational response of not believing anything any scientist says without due cause and what you're doing, which is categorically rejecting all science because some of the time they make mistakes.

If we all shared your view then we wouldn't be having this conversation because the computer would have never been invented because of crippling angst and self-doubt in what would have been the scientific community.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
How do you think that support would be shown? What will be the outcome of this shown by supporters?
Well it starts with clicking "like" on Youtube.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
...There's a difference between the rational response of not believing anything any scientist says without due cause and what you're doing, which is categorically rejecting all science because some of the time they make mistakes.

That's fine, but I don't care about that.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
If we all shared your view then we wouldn't be having this conversation because the computer would have never been invented because of crippling angst and self-doubt in what would have been the scientific community...


No! I am saying they can and have made mistakes. In other words, a poll of scientists is more religion like then science.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That's fine, but I don't care about that.




No! I am saying they can and have made mistakes. In other words, a poll of scientists is more religion like then science.
Science isn't a poll though. You're strawmanning.

I'm not saying I believe in Global Warming because more scientists believe in it than not, rather that the evidence and arguments on their side are stronger.

Phlogiston was abandoned in favor of Lavoisier's new chemistry not because suddenly 51% of all scientists believed in it over phlogiston, but because the arguments and evidence for NC became more powerful.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Science isn't a poll though. You're strawmanning.

I'm not saying I believe in Global Warming because more scientists believe in it than not, rather that the evidence and arguments on their side are stronger.

Phlogiston was abandoned in favor of Lavoisier's new chemistry not because suddenly 51% of all scientists believed in it over phlogiston, but because the arguments and evidence for NC became more powerful.

No, I was talking first, and I was talking about 80% bla bla bla. So, take your straw and go away.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, I was talking first, and I was talking about 80% bla bla bla. So, take your straw and go away.
Dodging: this is not how you do it.

Originally posted by Omega Vision

Well it starts with clicking "like" on Youtube.


And evolves into what? You really don't think the video was meant to make people think? haermm


I thought it did a decent job at doing exactly that.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
And evolves into what? You really don't think the video was meant to make people think? haermm
I see it as a less well-promoted, more nebulous Kony 2012 type video.

It's meant to influence their decisions when they vote. I don't think much thought will be generated though since anyone who sees the video will come into it either agreeing or disagreeing and that sense will only be sharpened at the end. It's called Evaluative Listening, where people listen to something to measure it against their biases and values.

I was repelled while you were attracted, simple as that. There was little thought generated in either case. Or I should rephrase: not the kind of thought that puts planes into the air or wins Nobel Prizes.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I see it as a less well-promoted, more nebulous Kony 2012 type video.


Not really. Lol. It's very foolish to compare this to phony.

Originally posted by Omega Vision


It's meant to influence their decisions when they vote. I don't think much thought will be generated though since anyone who sees the video will come into it either agreeing or disagreeing and that sense will only be sharpened at the end. It's called Evaluative Listening, where people listen to something to measure it against their biases and values.

I was repelled while you were attracted, simple as that. There was little thought generated in either case.

I think the video was meant to show people how America is currently operating. It will always be up to them on who they vote for. It's not like politicians can't lie and flip flop haermm

I wasn't really that attracted to the video if you saw my response. stoned Couldn't really stand the guys voice for some reason.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
Not really. Lol. It's very foolish to compare this to phony.



I think the video was meant to show people how America is currently operating. It will always be up to them on who they vote for. It's not like a politicians can't lie and flip flop haermm

I wasn't really that attracted to the video if you saw my response. stoned Couldn't really stand the guys voice for some reason.
Which would explain why he quoted figures, gave actual evidence, even had the decency to refer to specific instances of the shortcomings he decried. No you're right, this was a documentary, a tour de force of fact and reality, nothing at all like an emotional message aimed at arousing sympathy in likeminded people and sharpening ire for those who disagree with the message and the amorphous "Big Bad Govment"

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Which would explain why he quoted figures, gave actual evidence, even had the decency to refer to specific instances of the shortcomings he decried.

Hah, you need quotes from someone to see whats going on outside? You need a quote to see how much energy costs are? You need a quote to see our failing economy?

This is just one of the many videos, quotes, discussions, whatever you want to call it that are all part of informing people how our economy is failing. A droplet in the ocean of information which topic seems to be a big hit today. I'm sure people who are already politically aware are the ones watching this video.


Originally posted by Omega Vision

No you're right, this was a documentary, a tour de force of fact and reality, nothing at all like an emotional message aimed at arousing sympathy and sharpening ire for those who disagree with the message and the amorphous "Big Bad Govment"

sympathy for who? The viewer sympathizing himself?

Do you believe the government does nothing but good and there is absolutely nothing corrupt going on?

Originally posted by Mairuzu
Hah, you need quotes from someone to see whats going on outside? You need a quote to see how much energy costs are? You need a quote to see our failing economy?

This is just one of the many videos, quotes, discussions, whatever you want to call it that are all part of informing people how our economy is failing. A droplet in the ocean of information which topic seems to be a big hit today. I'm sure people who are already politically aware are the ones watching this video.

And you're doing the same thing as him, making sweeping statements and assuming the conclusion with them. For someone who doesn't like this video you're trying awfully hard to defend it.




Sympathy is a complex word that doesn't just mean "feel sorry for". It comes from the Greek for "suffering together", in this case that means that the video is trying to arouse the feelings of like-minded viewers and generate a sense of solidarity.

There is, but this guy and people like him aren't the answer.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
And you're doing the same thing as him, making sweeping statements and assuming the conclusion with them. For someone who doesn't like this video you're trying awfully hard to defend it.


I dont have to like a video to agree with it. The guys voice annoyed me haermm


Originally posted by Omega Vision

Sympathy is a complex word that doesn't just mean "feel sorry for". It comes from the Greek for "suffering together", in this case that means that the video is trying to arouse the feelings of like-minded viewers and generate a sense of solidarity.

There is, but this guy and people like him aren't the answer.

He isn't trying to be the answer lol. He seems to know the problems though. Its the first step into finding the answer. stoned

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
In other words, a poll of scientists is more religion like then science.



you can't be ****ing serious...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, I was talking first, and I was talking about 80% bla bla bla. So, take your straw and go away.

Yes, you definitely did bring up the 80% out of nowhere as a (very poor) strawman argument. We all saw that happen.

if we are going to throw numbers around, might as well be real ones:

the number is 97-98% of climate scientists, and the number increases with the relative expertise in the field of the scientist.

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/04/1003187107.abstract

This thread made me lol. Omega Vision is like "come at me, bro".

To make it clear: I only helped the OP to format his youtube video in a post so it was more easily viewable. I could not watch the video until a few minutes ago. I was not supporting the video.



Of course, there were several things I agreed with such as our aversion to repealing regulations....but we still make more. Something about taxes and waging wars for energy in the disguise of democracy. bla bla bla

It is not all THAT bad, guys. It isn't that great, either. I want more solution videos to be made. This guy had a great idea, but I want someone to make an awesome 4 minute "solution" video. That would be better.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
I dont have to like a video to agree with it. The guys voice annoyed me haermm




He isn't trying to be the answer lol. He seems to know the problems though. Its the first step into finding the answer. stoned
Any ******* can point out a problem. Finding a solution to it is vastly more difficult.

I have no economic expertise but even I can see that our current economic model isn't sustainable. **** if I could tell anyone how to fix it, but hey I'm not the one making a blusterous Youtube video about it.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Any ******* can point out a problem. Finding a solution to it is vastly more difficult.

PARROT!

Originally posted by dadudemon
... I want someone to make an awesome 4 minute "solution" video. That would be better.

The irony is that it's people like him that are making America fail. In the chase for ever increasing profits the big businesses look for the lowest cost...America isn't where that's to be found.

Originally posted by jaden101
The irony is that it's people like him that are making America fail. In the chase for ever increasing profits the big businesses look for the lowest cost...America isn't where that's to be found.
Pretty much. Anyone who thinks we can bring heavy industry back to America and make it profitable is living in a dream world.

you could, you'd just have to embrace some form of protectionism, maybe nationalize the industry...

Originally posted by dadudemon
This thread made me lol. Omega Vision is like "come at me, bro".

To make it clear: I only helped the OP to format his youtube video in a post so it was more easily viewable. I could not watch the video until a few minutes ago. I was not supporting the video.



Of course, there were several things I agreed with such as our aversion to repealing regulations....but we still make more. Something about taxes and waging wars for energy in the disguise of democracy. bla bla bla

It is not all THAT bad, guys. It isn't that great, either. I want more solution videos to be made. This guy had a great idea, but I want someone to make an awesome 4 minute "solution" video. That would be better.

Ron paul has a ton of them stoned


Originally posted by Omega Vision
Any ******* can point out a problem. Finding a solution to it is vastly more difficult.

I have no economic expertise but even I can see that our current economic model isn't sustainable. **** if I could tell anyone how to fix it, but hey I'm not the one making a blusterous Youtube video about it.

Yeah it was pretty weak

Originally posted by inimalist
you could, you'd just have to embrace some form of protectionism, maybe nationalize the industry...
I'll make you a commissar.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'll make you a commissar.

hahaha

"If I wanted America to fail... I'd put inimalist somewhere near the money..."

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'll make you a commissar. http://images.cryhavok.org/d/13509-1/Emperor_s+Work+is+Never+Done.jpg

I knew a WH40K reference was coming.

I always deliver.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I always deliver.

It's not delivery, it's DiGiorno.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's not delivery, it's DiGiorno.
Yes, but where's the beef?

94bNyh6BBB0

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Yes, but where's the beef?

HEY! You aren't old enough to use that one!