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Big Battle. Who wins?

CK

Originally posted by Endless Mike
CK

Exactly. People fail to realize just how powerful he was because the character and story were so stupid.

CK.

Originally posted by zopzop
Exactly. People fail to realize just how powerful he was because the character and story were so stupid.

older than galactus

Originally posted by guy222
older than galactus

Yup. There was debate as to what the whole "void before Creation" meant. But the writer made it clear as day in an interview :
http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/articles/chaos_war_interview


Now for the stupidity, see the part that's underlined and the words thatare bold and italicized? LOL. Stupid Marvel fail.

^ to CK. Mistress Death ran, so Thanos doesn't have that going for him

wonder when he returns

Chaos King seemed to be an Eternity level character, a single cosmic cube even in Thanos' hands just wont have close to the level of power needed to defeat him.

Originally posted by DTM
Chaos King seemed to be an Eternity level character, a single cosmic cube even in Thanos' hands just wont have close to the level of power needed to defeat him.

What if it was a cosmic egg like the goddess had? :-P

Hmmmmm, that would make things alot closer to me, as that Egg was much more powerful than a single cube.

Okay zop then I'll limit the argument to the way I see it:

Ck being equivalent to a high level universal power....
Should still win against thanos with the cosmic cube...

Since cubes should have no limit to their power output in cube form... But do have a finite power sources... Kinda contradictory but let's take starlords burnt out cube as a clue and the great fears of red skull... As far as time as universal manipulations...

Eternity SHOULD win but... It's a hard argument to make if you consider his low feats and low end durability showings. Meh.

Originally posted by rotiart And yet this all powerful being was previously defeated by Japanese gods and locked away by them.

Well gods are powered by their worshippers.

Consider how many weeaboos there are nowadays

EDIT: BTW the worst thing about Chaos War was when Cho suggested that Hercules could summon the Living Tribunal and he just gave an excuse of "Eh, I don't know the guy that well" or something... because he could have ended the whole thing right there if he had done so.

At the very least he should have tried and have LT give his usual line of "Sorry, not my problem, bye".

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Well gods are powered by their worshippers.

Consider how many weeaboos there are nowadays

Even this was retconned in Fear Itself (another steaming pile of Marvel shit! Apparently Gods aren't empowered by their worshipers (then why have them at all?!) and don't care if they are wiped out, they can just create more!




That wasn't the worse thing about Chaos War, not even close. The COMPLETELY unnecessary Demiurge/Elder God retcon was. The next most idiotic thing was CHAOS King wanting to return Creation back to it's Void state (by absorbing everything into himself). Sit and think about why this makes NO sense for a being supposedly interested in Chaos. Then we have the fact that this uber being was imprisoned by the Kami yet turned around and WTFpwned them and EVERY other known pantheon in the universe. Then we have the fact that 4 mundane godly items can turn a being into a high end abstract! Screw you Infinity Gauntlet! I got ambrosia/golden apples/magic cup/magic scroll POWA! I can go on but you get the point.

There should be a new forum rule, just like alt reality versions of characters are off limits in VS debates, the entire clusterfxxk known as Chaos War should likewise be banned from VS threads.

I still found the LT thing to be pretty bad

Originally posted by Endless Mike
EDIT: BTW the worst thing about Chaos War was when Cho suggested that Hercules could summon the Living Tribunal and he just gave an excuse of "Eh, I don't know the guy that well" or something... because he could have ended the whole thing right there if he had done so.

At the very least he should have tried and have LT give his usual line of "Sorry, not my problem, bye".
lol LT would end the arc instantly.

^Both chaos war and fear itself were steaming pile of shit.

Fear Itself wasn't as bad, it was just the ending that sucked

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I still found the LT thing to be pretty bad

... I must have completely glazed over that. Anyone got a scan. That doesn't seem right.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2d6s668.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/23wl3df.jpg

Sersi: More useful ally than the Living Tribunal

^^^


The Chaos War also interrupts continuity across the board cosmically speaking.

It undermines Oblivion's role an established Marvel Concept. (on panel & bio certified)

Also ...

The Infinity Being according to documented (on panel) handbook corroborated history,
always was and had no beginning, and it is the reality Galactus came from.

So there's no "predation."

On top of that,
several characters (on panel) have brought all things to it's "pre-big bang" point,
with no problems when they got there,
and no Chaos King, or sentient void or Chaos anything anywhere around.

Meh, and said characters just as easily re-created everything from the nothingness.

Beyond all this, Abraxas is supposed to be Eternity's "anti-thesis"
so again this arc continues to shit all over continuity.

.......................................................

As for the thread ...

Thanos stomps.

CK is a bunch of hype, while the CCU has proven itself.

CK is Oblivion's deadbeat brother

ck story was silly and that's for others to discuss

in regards to sersi, she was picked from the lacuna which should've been mentioned and guess who runs the lacuna

all writers write as they see fit

do i believe eternity can defeat the ck

do i believe the chaos king is older than galactus hell

do i believe the absolutes are a trillion years old hell

its just preference friends

Thanos erases boogerface

agreed

Thanos, and I don't care about the feats of Chaos King: he sucks.

Originally posted by zopzop

According to that arc, Gaea was the first thing to spring forth from the Void. Not Eternity, not Death, not the Phoenix Force.............Gaea! This appears to be a complete retcon of her origin as the Demiurge wasn't even mentioned.


I think this is just a case of lazy writing.

Gaea says in the Chaos War comic that she was the 1st thing to form out of chaos. That can be interpreted in many different ways. The original chaos i.e the void before creation. Or the chaos that was the newly forming Earth. Given what we know about what Gaea is and all previous documentation with regards to her origin the latter would seem to be the case. Gaea's undisputed origin up until this point was that she was the 1st thing to form on Earth, before life, before the continents had taken, shape, before the newborn Earth had settled. Chaos in other words. There was no additional comments or reference to verify that the chaos she referred to was the void and not just the standard definition of chaos. Plus her further comments that she birthed the gods and was the source of all that they are matches up perfectly with her widely known origin pre Chaos War.

Nothing but lazy, ill-considered writing. Chaos War was sh*t

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^^


The Chaos War also interrupts continuity across the board cosmically speaking.

It undermines Oblivion's role an established Marvel Concept. (on panel & bio certified)

Also ...

The Infinity Being according to documented (on panel) handbook corroborated history,
always was and had no beginning, and it is the reality Galactus came from.

So there's no "predation."

On top of that,
several characters (on panel) have brought all things to it's "pre-big bang" point,
with no problems when they got there,
and no Chaos King, or sentient void or Chaos anything anywhere around.

Meh, and said characters just as easily re-created everything from the nothingness.

Beyond all this, Abraxas is supposed to be Eternity's "anti-thesis"
so again this arc continues to shit all over continuity.

.......................................................

As for the thread ...

Thanos stomps.

CK is a bunch of hype, while the CCU has proven itself. Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I think this is just a case of lazy writing.

Gaea says in the Chaos War comic that she was the 1st thing to form out of chaos. That can be interpreted in many different ways. The original chaos i.e the void before creation. Or the chaos that was the newly forming Earth. Given what we know about what Gaea is and all previous documentation with regards to her origin the latter would seem to be the case. Gaea's undisputed origin up until this point was that she was the 1st thing to form on Earth, before life, before the continents had taken, shape, before the newborn Earth had settled. Chaos in other words. There was no additional comments or reference to verify that the chaos she referred to was the void and not just the standard definition of chaos. Plus her further comments that she birthed the gods and was the source of all that they are matches up perfectly with her widely known origin pre Chaos War.

Nothing but lazy, ill-considered writing. Chaos War was sh*t

Team up?

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^^


The Chaos War also interrupts continuity across the board cosmically speaking.

It undermines Oblivion's role an established Marvel Concept. (on panel & bio certified)

Also ...

The Infinity Being according to documented (on panel) handbook corroborated history,
always was and had no beginning, and it is the reality Galactus came from.

So there's no "predation."

On top of that,
several characters (on panel) have brought all things to it's "pre-big bang" point,
with no problems when they got there,
and no Chaos King, or sentient void or Chaos anything anywhere around.

Meh, and said characters just as easily re-created everything from the nothingness.

Beyond all this, Abraxas is supposed to be Eternity's "anti-thesis"
so again this arc continues to shit all over continuity.

.......................................................

As for the thread ...

Thanos stomps.

CK is a bunch of hype, while the CCU has proven itself.

Im not sure i agree with this.

The Chaos King and what he represents is not the same thing as Oblivion. Very similar and easy to confuse in the same fashion as Phoenix and Eternity but there are clear differences.

The very definition of oblivion is the state or condition of being forgotten, or unknown.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oblivion

Oblivion represents the conversion of that which exists into not existing within reality.

That is why the Ultimate Nullifier is tied with him in the sense that that when it wipes things out of existence, it sends it to Oblivions realm. Whereas a weapon which merely destroyed a being would send the being to Deaths realm.

Oblivion is not Chaos. Oblivion, the wiping out, or the conversion of that which exists into non existence requires there to 1st be reality, existence, so that his concept would have meaning or relevance.

The Chaos King represents the nothingness before creation, the unending black that is always there, the void.

I can see why people would get them confused.

The Infinity Being was retconned from a being that was all that is of reality, into a being that merely resided in reality and in support of that latest references refer to it drawing its power from the Big Bang. So the Chaos War arc does not contradict or undermine the I Being at all, its origin and nature were redefined long before.

As for your point about characters returning creation to the "pre-Big Bang point" and not having any trouble with Chaos King. Well isnt that a bit of a naive remark given that he has only recently created as a Marvel character in 2005 and his nature as the chaos before creation made continuity within the last 2 years. So obviously comics created before that time arent going to reference him. But since Marvel have now placed him within continuity we must accept that he was there. Simple

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Team up?

We'd be unbeatable

yes

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Im not sure i agree with this.

The Chaos King and what he represents is not the same thing as
Oblivion.

The very definition of oblivion is the state or condition of being
forgotten, or unknown.

WEBSTER- DICTIONARY

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oblivion


Oblivion represents the conversion of that which exists into not existing within reality.

That is why the Ultimate Nullifier is tied with him in the sense that
that when it wipes things out of existence, it sends it to Oblivions
realm. Whereas a weapon which merely destroyed a being would
send the being to Deaths realm.

Oblivion is not Chaos. Oblivion, the wiping out, or the conversion of
that which exists into non existence requires there to 1st be reality,
existence, so that his concept would have meaning or relevance.

The Chaos King represents the nothingness before creation, the
unending black that is always there, the void.

I can see why people would get them confused.


Anywho, none of that is true concerning Oblivion,
but I always enjoy how you re-define characters to fit these fallacies.

Well, you stick to "Webster's" dictionary to explain Marvel's character ... Oblivion.

I'll stand with Marvel Comics to understand their character ... Oblivion.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11716740_O2.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11716741_O3.jpg

Oblivion is the embodiment of nothingness,
even the nothingness that proceeded the Multiverse.

Bio certified as the "embodiment of nothingness"

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/11716747_O1.jpg

(even references what Oblivion said about himself on panel)


That whole comedy about Oblivion being the transition,
and then using the UN as a means of logic is laughable, but creative.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The Infinity Being was retconned from a being that was all that
is of reality, into a being that merely resided in reality and in
support of that latest references refer to it drawing its power from
the Big Bang. So the Chaos War arc does not contradict or
undermine the I Being at all, its origin and nature were redefined
long before.
Googoogaga.

Mephisto's 2010 bio still has the Infinity Being as the lone sentience of the Universe,
that killed itself due to its infinite solitude.
This is how Mephisto and all other sentient entities/beings were created in the beginning.

So,
I don't see the difference between the on panel account by Thanos & Mephisto
and Diana of the Ultraverse located in a separate Multiverse.

Nice try though.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm

As for your point about characters returning creation to the "pre-
Big Bang point" and not having any trouble with Chaos King. Well
that a bit of a naive remark given that he has only recently created
as a Marvel character in 2005 and his nature as the chaos before
creation made continuity within the last 2 years. So obviously
comics created before that time arent going to reference him. But
since Marvel have now placed him within continuity we must accept
that he was there. Simple
Whatever.

On panel action supersedes on panel verbalized hyperbole.

That was the point you missed.

Originally posted by zopzop
That wasn't the worse thing about Chaos War, not even close. The COMPLETELY unnecessary Demiurge/Elder God retcon was.

I don't think Demiurge was really retconned.The name Demiurge has a meaning.Demiurge means "Creator" and in Plato's Timaeus(philosophical usage and the proper noun), written circa 360 BC, in which the Demiurge is presented as the creator of the universe.In Chaos War:X-men#1 and #2, the dead X-men were tasked to go to muir isle in order to awaken The One Above All.I've always stated that the One Above All in this story could be the Demiurge and that Muir isle might have been the place the Demiurge might have appeared.The Demiurge can be taken as an avatar of the true creator(TOAA) since the name also means "creator."

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/TOAAinvolvedinstoppingCK.jpg?t=1303206697

The Most ancient and Primal spirit of the earth itself.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/UnlocktheGate.jpg?t=1303260310

The embodiments of creation itself.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/ChaosKingbornonEarth.jpg?t=1303261564

As for Gaea mentioning she was the first to emerge out of the Darkness and Chaos, Lets stop and think first on what was stated in Thor annual#10.It was stated that Earth itself emerge from the Void.The name of the Planet we live in is what Gaea maybe talking about since its obvious that she didn't create Planet Earth.She did birth the Gods after Demogorge pawned the other Elder Gods.And that's when Gaea became the spirit of the Earth.

Originally posted by zopzop
The next most idiotic thing was CHAOS King wanting to return Creation back to it's Void state (by absorbing everything into himself). Sit and think about why this makes NO sense for a being supposedly interested in Chaos.

http://www.ancientgreece.com/s/Mythology/#chaos



This is were the name Chaos King is taken from.

Originally posted by zopzop
Then we have the fact that this uber being was imprisoned by the Kami yet turned around and WTFpwned them and EVERY other known pantheon in the universe. Then we have the fact that 4 mundane godly items can turn a being into a high end abstract! Screw you Infinity Gauntlet! I got ambrosia/golden apples/magic cup/magic scroll POWA! I can go on but you get the point.

The Amatsu-Kami might have imprisoned a Chaos King that was weakened after his fall from the cosmic hierarchy.The Chaos King in CW of course was on his way to regaining his power and place in the cosmic hierarchy.As for the SG Herc Vs CK, Chaos War:X-men answers the why Herc was able to go toe to toe with CK.

Originally posted by zopzop
There should be a new forum rule, just like alt reality versions of characters are off limits in VS debates, the entire clusterfxxk known as Chaos War should likewise be banned from VS threads.

would u say he's older than galactus

can eternity defeat em

Originally posted by guy222
would u say he's older than galactus


How could it be, since Galactus was the very first being of the universe, along Death and Eternity?

I mean, the dude was there before the uniserve was created, so...

Galactus was the last being of the previous universe and the first being of 616 universe but the CK predate Creation Itself, meaning he existed before the big bang that started Galactus original universe. Hence he is older than Galactus

Originally posted by hunbu04

Galactus was the last being of the previous universe and the first being of 616 universe but the CK predate Creation Itself,

meaning he existed before the big bang that started Galactus original universe.

So did Oblivion according to the same type of information.

The Infinity Being, which is supposed to be the previous Universe,
never had a beginning, always was ... so ...

... I don't know where these cats are pre-dating from.

The only room for either of them is the nothingness before the first Big Bang,
which created current Eternity/Infinity & formed Galactus.

If they wanna share that spot that's fine.

Only problem is, that spot's been reached at-least 4 times on panel,
and neither of them were of any significance.

If they are the nothingness embodied
where Thanos/Genis-Entropy-Rick-Epiphany/Sise-Neg & AE-Reed reached,
then it's a pointless status/power to be/have since said characters were just fine
and in control within said nothingness.

... and in fact and indeed did re-create all reality without interruption or problem.

Originally posted by Mr Master
So did Oblivion according to the same type of information.

The Infinity Being, which is supposed to be the previous Universe,
never had a beginning, always was ... so ...

... I don't know where these cats are pre-dating from.

The only room for either of them is the nothingness before the first Big Bang,
which created current Eternity/Infinity & formed Galactus.

If they wanna share that spot that's fine.

Only problem is, that spot's been reached at-least 4 times on panel,
and neither of them were of any significance.

If they are the nothingness embodied
where Thanos/Genis-Entropy-Rick-Epiphany/Sise-Neg & AE-Reed reached,
then it's a pointless status/power to be/have since said characters were just fine
and in control within said nothingness.

... and in fact and indeed did re-create all reality without interruption or problem.

Or, you can say that they ****ed up, am I right?

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
How could it be, since Galactus was the very first being of the universe, along Death and Eternity?

I mean, the dude was there before the uniserve was created, so...

its his gigantic teeth that makes em older than g



its silly writing

Originally posted by guy222
its his gigantic teeth that makes em older than g



its silly writing

Lol...

Seriously, IMO, Greg Pak is able of both the best and the worst. Basically, he's like Jeph Loeb.

great point

loeb will make nova a cosmic force

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Lol...

Seriously, IMO, Greg Pak is able of both the best and the worst. Basically, he's like Jeph Loeb. Pak's capable of one good story. Planet Hulk.

Originally posted by guy222
great point

loeb will make nova a cosmic force By jobbing everyone else out

yeppers

same as demogorge during incredible herc run

Originally posted by Mr Master
So did Oblivion according to the same type of information.

The Infinity Being, which is supposed to be the previous Universe,
never had a beginning, always was ... so ...

... I don't know where these cats are pre-dating from.

The only room for either of them is the nothingness before the first Big Bang,
which created current Eternity/Infinity & formed Galactus.

If they wanna share that spot that's fine.

Only problem is, that spot's been reached at-least 4 times on panel,
and neither of them were of any significance.

If they are the nothingness embodied
where Thanos/Genis-Entropy-Rick-Epiphany/Sise-Neg & AE-Reed reached,
then it's a pointless status/power to be/have since said characters were just fine
and in control within said nothingness.

... and in fact and indeed did re-create all reality without interruption or problem.

You could say Oblivion got retconned into being created just like Eternity,Infinity and Death.Chaos King on the other hand seems to be a combination of Oblivion and Entropy.Chaos King is regarded as the Darkness and Chaos that existed before creation.Nothingness in the sense that preceeded everything.Now on to the Entropy part, If we remember Entropy, the abstract entity that was convinced to create thus becoming the new Eternity.Chaos King on the other hand has no choice.Remember what Athena said in CW#4?Existence would emerge again and get it right this time.Athena was using CK as a catalyst in order to change creation into whatever she wants.Hence CK getting booted out even if he did succeed in his objective in Chaos War.And the Abstracts like Eternity,Death,Infinity and Oblivion will just emerge again in the new Universe/Multiverse.Hence why Chaos King can also be viewed as an Entropy type character as well.

Originally posted by Igniz

You could say Oblivion got retconned into being created just like Eternity,Infinity and Death.
Chaos King on the other hand seems to be a combination of Oblivion and Entropy.
It's possible, but until further on panel and handbook supported info is provided by Marvel,
for me it's not fact.
Originally posted by Igniz

Chaos King is regarded as the Darkness and Chaos that existed before creation.

Nothingness in the sense that preceeded everything.
This is an on panel depiction of that very moment:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/11734409_pre-bb.jpg

I know CK wasn't a character at this time (2006) but
imo, if anything, CK embodies this nothingness, (the only way it makes sense)
and Oblivion embodies the nothingness within reality after the Big Bang creates everything.

That's as far as I'll go retconning established Marvel continuity (on panel/handbooks)
with this CK business.

That aside ...

There's too many Concepts trying to or wanting to turn Eternity into chaos/unity/nothingess:

Entropy - Abraxas - Oblivion - Death - Bete Noir - Dweller in Darkness

and now Chaos King as well.
Originally posted by Igniz

Now on to the Entropy part, If we remember Entropy,
the abstract entity that was convinced to create thus becoming the new Eternity.

Chaos King on the other hand has no choice.Remember what Athena said in
CW#4?Existence would emerge again and get it right this time.Athena was using
CK as a catalyst in order to change creation into whatever she wants.Hence CK
getting booted out even if he did succeed in his objective in Chaos War.And the
Abstracts like Eternity,Death,Infinity and Oblivion will just emerge again in the new
Universe/Multiverse.Hence why Chaos King can also be viewed as an Entropy
type character as well.
I agree with your take on the Athena and CK scenario,
but Entropy wasn't really "convinced" ... he was reminded of his inevitable role.

Yes of course it's some dumb shit when humanoids are schooling an Abstract of its duties,
but I guess this is how writers PIS their way into explaining what's going on.

Let's just all agree that Greg Pak is an idiot who should never be allowed to write for Marvel again.

I wish Steve Englehart would publish some stories about cosmics and / or magical characters for Marvel again...

Marvel's abstract category is too convulted at this point.

Actually, apparently CK is merely an aspect of Oblivion. So does this mean Oblivion is way stronger than Eternity?

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/2392122-oblivion_and_mikaboshi.jpg

who knows

CK easily..the guy is Eternity level being..Thanos is nowhere near that level..

Thanos with a couple hours of prep almost killed Galactus add the cosmic cube is every wish he could make come true through reality warping. Thanos could possibly create a UN and kill CK

Originally posted by golem370
Thanos with a couple hours of prep almost killed Galactus add the cosmic cube is every wish he could make come true through reality warping. Thanos could possibly create a UN and kill CK

Galactus is nowhere near CK level of power either..and i don't think he can create the UN..he can't create something that is far more powerful than himself..

Not even with a Cosmic Cube's powers

Originally posted by golem370
Not even with a Cosmic Cube's powers

UN can destroy and recreate entire reality..i don't think a single CC can do that..i could be wrong thou..maybe someone with a bit more knowledge about CC can come in and explain..anyone??

Zeus amped by Chaos King raped galactus. Chaos king himself was absurdly powerful. I doubt eternity would have been able to stop him either.

I am not saying Galactus is as powerful as Chaos King I am saying that with Thanos' everyday powers and abilities he almost killed Galactus now add the power of a cosmic cube then he could do alot more.

CK was virtually an Infinity Gauntlet level power, and IMHO, IG >>>>>>>> CC.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Zeus amped by Chaos King raped galactus. Chaos king himself was absurdly powerful. I doubt eternity would have been able to stop him either.
That was a pretty hungry Galactus. As far as Eternity goes, the guy essentially admitted that striking against the CK would be like striking at himself since Mikaboshi embodied his dark half, so that point is moot. I doubt that he was more powerful than Eternity even after everything he'd devoured throughout the series.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
That was a pretty hungry Galactus. As far as Eternity goes, the guy essentially admitted that striking against the CK would be like striking at himself since Mikaboshi embodied his dark half, so that point is moot. I doubt that he was more powerful than Eternity even after everything he'd devoured throughout the series.

being Eternity dark half already puts him above Galactus..and he was whoopin the guy who has enough power to restore 97% of the universe..that alone puts him way beyond Galactus level..

Eternity has been defeated by a cube before...

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
That was a pretty hungry Galactus. As far as Eternity goes, the guy essentially admitted that striking against the CK would be like striking at himself since Mikaboshi embodied his dark half, so that point is moot. I doubt that he was more powerful than Eternity even after everything he'd devoured throughout the series.

Oh yeah, he definitely wasn't at the levels he was against the celestials that's for sure, but it was still a pretty bad showing against one of CK's creations, and bodes very badly for him against CK himself.

My impression was that if he fought CK he'd be going down with him. Not that their power was the same so much. I can see it both ways though I suppose.

Thanos still stomps!

Originally posted by DTM

CK was virtually an Infinity Gauntlet level power,

naw ... not even close.

Aside from ridiculous feats performed by single Cubes,
Thanos already replaced Eternity with one before.

Thanos wins. Cubes, in the right hands, have been know to threaten the entire OMNIVERSE.

Hey Master, question. Would you put Oblivion higher than Eternity on the cosmic scale? CK was an aspect of Oblvion, and that 1 aspect stalemated 616 Eternity.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanos still stomps!


naw ... not even close.

Aside from ridiculous feats performed by single Cubes,
Thanos already replaced Eternity with one before. I'd say it's more than arguable. Keep in mind, a near murdered Supergod Herc restored 98% of the universe near instantaneously. And even a fresh, newly awakened Supergod Herc was no match for Chaos King at his peak.

Chaos King (what a stupid name) loses because he doesn't exist. I refuse to believe it.

Depends on how much of the universe hes absorbed to regain his full power, but at best showings id say CK without a doubt.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Depends on how much of the universe hes absorbed to regain his full power, but at best showings id say CK without a doubt.
Woot welcome back GS! Happy New Year to you.

But you really think CK > Competent Cube Wielder? Thanos unseated Eternity with one just to impress his girlfriend

Originally posted by zopzop
Woot welcome back GS! Happy New Year to you.

But you really think CK > Competent Cube Wielder? Thanos unseated Eternity with one just to impress his girlfriend

What youve got to remember is that with the retcon the Cosmic Cubes were rendered between Galactus and top ranking Celestials in power.

The cubes were experiments of the race of Beyonders to study evolution, development and desire. The retcon states that interactions between the cubes and the universe were merely played along with or permitted by the Abstracts at the Beyonder race's request.

http://imageshack.us/a/img15/4220/beyondersexperiment.th.jpg

The "minute" power was allowed to interact with the universe on various occasions. The great power was allowed to be placed in mortal hands and the effects were allowed so that the Beyonders could observe and study.

All of the powers played along with the Beyonders' cube experiments-

http://imageshack.us/a/img13/192/ffann02360.th.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img845/8558/ffann02361.th.jpg

As such, i would take caution with cosmic cube showings.

The cube beings themselves state that they are clearly and without a doubt below the Celestials

http://imageshack.us/a/img651/7086/ffann02656.th.jpg

and yet you get the cube beings and the cubes doing universal scale stuff.


Confusing? Not really?

That is explained to:

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/415/ffann02657.th.jpg

In comics at least, there are differing levels of infinity. The scan uses the the example of there being infinite even numbers, infinite odd numbers, but both those infinite subsets are encompassed by whole numbers which covers both.

So the cubes may be able to destroy matter on a universal scale, but that doesnt put them up there with Eternity for example, its not simply the act of doing something, its how its done, the comparative ease, the execution etc.

There are levels of infinity.

In Mighty Thor recently you had Odin channeling and redirecting energies collected by Surtur sufficient to blow up the multiverse through Otherworlds connection to all realities:

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/7936/thorzone008.th.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img28/2972/thorzone018.th.jpg

and yet in the same series Odins been shown to be below Galactus. Such a feat doesnt suddenly propel Odin to Abstract level, he is still a skyfather, he is still below the cube beings, who are below the Celestials and Abstracts etc, however it demonstrates the point that he is in his own right infinite in power. He could pull off universal scale manipulations, reach out and do things which can be felt across the multiverse, however he could not do so as easily as someone higher in the hierarchy.

So to summarize, the cubes may be able to warp the matter of the entire universe, however we are told on panel, by their own admission and those of other cosmics that they are minor omnipotents, we are told their interactions with the universe were merely allowed for the purposes of knowledge so we cant use an instance where Thanos takes on Eternitys role as definitive proof of a cubes power level.

Eternity placed Chaos King on par with himself, the Chaos King consumed the majority of the universe. He was no permitted experiment, he was just THAT powerful.

Originally posted by zopzop
Woot welcome back GS! Happy New Year to you.



Happy New Year bro

Thanos unless CK kick the cube out of his hand.....

When a cosmic cube is retconned to being on par with the Abstracts as opposed to its current sub-Celestial power status, then Thanos with the Cosmic Cube stands a chance.

But what good are matter restructuring powers against a consumer of reality, a black nothingness against which powers and energies have been shown to have no effect and are just absorbed.

Cubes are by canon below Celestials in power.

Chaos King is regarded by Eternity to be his equal in power and he proved it by consuming most of 616 before being tricked NOT overpowered. There was no known way to defeat him bar a creation event/Big Bang which reduces him to a god/Amatsu-Mikaboshi level.

Originally posted by Estacado
Thanos unless CK kick the cube out of his hand.....

Nice H'el sig dude

Thanks...313
Whenever I'm bored I just make a sig....

awesome work

Thanks..313
It's not that good Imo...

Thanos still stomps.

... at Cubes being allowed to rape Eternity,
or compress the Omniverse. I guess when they create Universes,
or re-arrange them,
or warp reality within RealitieS across Trans-Multiversal space-time,
they're supposedly being "allowed" therefore you know ... they're not exercising any power.

I don't know about yall, but the depths of bull shit have hit a new bottom.

"Abstracts played along" ... "All the powers played along with Beyonder"

My lord .. still over here.


PS. I guess mistress Death enjoys getting a taste of her own medicine:

Official Marvel Handbook ... Death's bio 2006 ...

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/14717320_B.jpg


What kind of game is this?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanos still stomps.

... at Cubes being allowed to rape Eternity,
or compress the Omniverse. I guess when they create Universes,
or re-arrange them,
or warp reality within RealitieS across Trans-Multiversal space-time,
they're supposedly being "allowed" therefore you know ... they're not exercising any power.

I don't know about yall, but the depths of bull shit have hit a new bottom.

"Abstracts played along" ... "All the powers played along with Beyonder"

My lord .. still over here.


PS. I guess mistress Death enjoys getting a taste of her own medicine:

Official Marvel Handbook ... Death's bio 2006 ...

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/14717320_B.jpg


What kind of game is this?

No game. Just exactly what we're told on panel.

If that does not fit in with your idea of the hierarchy, then go make some fan-fiction

Its stated on panel by LT and the Abstracts, even Kubik himself that the Cosmic Cube were permitted experiments, that the Beyonders wanted to study what less beings would do if great power was placed in their hands.

http://imageshack.us/a/img15/4220/beyondersexperiment.th.jpg

My last post on this matter above still holds strong.

The cubes/cube beings are considered by the Abstracts to be "minor omnipotents" cube beings themselves state that they are below the Celestials in power.

My scans in my previous posts above show Kubik explaining the point of differing levels of infinity. Something you fail to understand.

Your logic seems to be, if you can manipulate matter on a universal scale, if youre powerful enough to blow up a universe then youre Abstract level and likely greater than Eternity. WRONG

Just so this seeps into your head i will reiterate the example Kubik gave when explaining why he a cube being is nothing compared to a Celestial despite having infinite power and being able to create pocket dimensions etc

You have infinite even numbers.

You have infinite odd numbers.

Both of those infinite sets are encompassed by the greater category that is whole numbers.

So whilst beings like Odin, the Cube Beings, a fully powered Galactus. Elder Gods etc have practically infinite power and can effect matter on a universal scale, can do things which have multiversal effects, that does NOT make them abstract level.

If someone can manipulate matter on a universal scale, to create a universe it again does not necessarily place them on Abstract level.

It is all about the comparative ease with which these beings can pull off such feats.

Odin can manipulate energies powerful enough to blow up a universe, can unleash power that can be felt throughout the multiverse.

Can he do so to a greater extent than Cube Beings?

Can they do so to a greater extent than Eternity?

That is the very reason why the Beyonders had to make a request to the Abstracts, if they were so much greater in power it wouldve been more like The Infinites situation where they just came into 616 and did what they pleased manhandling Eternity without a thought.

If the Cube Beings say the power of the cubes is less than a Celestial then you must accept that.

Just because a Cube can manipulate universal scale matter does not mean a thing.

So can Odin and he is below Galactus.

Cosmic cubes rape eternity, yet Thanos beat one recently? Who writes this crap.

Huh, interesting case GS. I've always seen the cosmic cube beings below celestials since that what is stated, but normal cubes can be above certain abstracts depending on the user, no?

Originally posted by ThereIsHope
Cosmic cubes rape eternity, yet Thanos beat one recently? Who writes this crap.

And thats my point, its not the writers who are at fault, they've given us statements and references within continuity to the power level of the cosmic cubes, its forum reader faulty logic that has hyped them up to the nth degree despite whats stated in the comics about their standing in the hierarchy.

As stated on panel by the Living Tribunal, the cosmic cubes are just permitted experiments. An arrangement was made between the Beyonders and the Abstracts and LT to allow portions of cosmic power to enter 616 so that it could form cubes which would enable mortals to wield the power and for the Beyonders to observe what happens.

http://imageshack.us/a/img15/4220/beyondersexperiment.th.jpg

The Great Powers agreed to play along with the experiment and pretended to fall to the cubes power as a part of the process:


http://imageshack.us/a/img13/192/ffann02360.th.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img845/8558/ffann02361.th.jpg

As stated by the cube beings the Abstracts and Great Powers of the universe are full participants in the cosmic cube experiment and in the development from cube to cube being they had "dim reflections" face the cube beings power to aid its development, however it is acknowledged by Kubik that the power of a cube is NO MATCH for the Abstracts or the Great Powers such as the Celestials and Vishanti.

In a later Fantastic Four Annual again the point is made clear

"our power is AS nothing to that of the Celestials"

"yes our might is infinite but there are levels of infinity"

http://imageshack.us/a/img651/7086/ffann02656.th.jpg


Here the point is explained perfectly. There are infinite odd numbers, infinite even numbers both infinite in their own right, but both are just facets of an even more infinite quantity...whole numbers.

"a transfinite level of power many orders of magnitude beyond our own"

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/415/ffann02657.th.jpg

the power of a cube being is not enough to save it from a single Celestial, if judgement was against the two cube beings, he could have destroyed them both :

http://imageshack.us/a/img809/6136/ffann02658.th.jpg


Once again.

We have been told in continuity that the cubes/cube beings are below the Abstracts and Great Powers, we have been told there are differing levels of infinity and yet the flawed logic of forum readers has made many overlook these points, make up their own hierarchy and then find fault with writers when a showing from a character doesnt match the forums fabrication.

Odin can manipulate energies which can destroy a universe:

http://imageshack.us/a/img28/2972/thorzone018.th.jpg

Odin is slightly weaker than a hungry Galactus and no match for an energised one:

http://imageshack.us/a/img690/7317/0902201107.th.jpg

Levels of infinity

Manipulating universal scale energies/matter does not automatically make a being above Eternity as ive just shown. Especially not when said beings state themselves they are many times inferior in power than even a Celestial.

Silver Surfer can destroy a planet and manipulate planetary scale matter. Can he do so as easily as Galactus? No.

Because Silver Surfer can do those things does that make him greater than Ego the living planet? HELL NO

Different levels of infinity

When was it confirmed that the Galactus Odin fought was a hungry one? He wanted the seed not to feed. Plus he had just fed on a planet in the same miniseries...

Originally posted by The Merchant
Huh, interesting case GS. I've always seen the cosmic cube beings below celestials since that what is stated, but normal cubes can be above certain abstracts depending on the user, no?

The cubes are stated to be many orders of magnitude below the Celestials, the other Great Powers such as The Vishanti and certainly below The Abstracts.

A cosmic cube is not beating a full powered Celestial or Abstract level being unless by plot device.

Its all about differing levels of infinity. That was the whole pont of those Fantastic Four Annuals and forum readers just ignore it and sat stuff like someone can manipulate universal scale energies,so theyre on par with Eternity

Surfer can manipulate planetary scale matter and destroy planets.

That doesnt place him on par with or above Ego, a living planet

But yeah, if you read that and believed the points then carry on believing because its true.

Dont be swayed by the misguided logic of other forum readers who will tell you to ignore whats stated on panel, to ignore what explanations are given on panel and believe what they tell you is happening in scans

Originally posted by Damborgson
When was it confirmed that the Galactus Odin fought was a hungry one? He wanted the seed not to feed. Plus he had just fed on a planet in the same miniseries...

Good point. I looked through the issue again and youre right i couldnt find anything conclusive to say he was hungry in that encounter, so ignore the hungry part and lets replace it with "an average Galactus" lol

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Good point. I looked through the issue again and youre right i couldnt find anything conclusive to say he was hungry in that encounter, so ignore the hungry part and lets replace it with "an average Galactus" lol

Much better lol

It still makes it retarded.

Galactus later rips apart Celestials, and fights off Scrier and the Other at the same time.

Fraction

Hey GS, thanks for the info. Also, if it is not too much trouble, can I see your heirarchy list, if you have one?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
It still makes it retarded.

Galactus later rips apart Celestials, and fights off Scrier and the Other at the same time.

Fraction

Galactus did eat 4 planets before he fought the Celestials though. Or something similar.

But yes, Fraction.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Galactus did eat 4 planets before he fought the Celestials though. Or something similar.

But yes, Fraction. He gets one shotted after he kills the first one, why would he still have the 4 planet amp when he tore a Celestial in twix?

The Scrier and Other one though is quite a ways above not doing anything offensively against Odin.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
He gets one shotted after he kills the first one, why would he still have the 4 planet amp when he tore a Celestial in twix?


http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8tr9aoSdw1qlvm0ao1_500.gif

just throwing shit out there to make it less retarded.

Originally posted by Damborgson
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8tr9aoSdw1qlvm0ao1_500.gif

just throwing shit out there to make it less retarded. Meh, the Odin "fight" (maybe), and the Thanos thing are like fed Galactus' lowest showings.

And are really the only low showings of fed Galactus I can think of. Tyrant if you include zopzop's reasoning too... which you shouldn't.

Wasn't Galactus just letting Odin wail on him?

Originally posted by The Merchant
Wasn't Galactus just letting Odin wail on him? Galactus pretty much watched Odin grow big and said "I am in no way about to even attempt to defend myself here" and then Odin knocked himself out headbutting Galactus.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Meh, the Odin "fight" (maybe), and the Thanos thing are like fed Galactus' lowest showings.

And are really the only low showings of fed Galactus I can think of. Tyrant if you include zopzop's reasoning too... which you shouldn't.

It was lower than I would expect for a fed Galactus no doubt, but in the end he still brushed it off more or less.

It's best to stay away from most things Zop Zop.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Hey GS, thanks for the info. Also, if it is not too much trouble, can I see your heirarchy list, if you have one?

A basic one would be

LT
The Abstracts
The Great Powers - Celestials, Vishanti, well fed Galactus
Cube Beings /Elder Gods
Average Galactus
Skyfathers / Hell Lords / Dormammu
Elders Of The Universe / Watchers
Heralds / Thor / Binary

Not an exhaustive list and some bits im open to suggestion, but thats it for now

Where would you put Omega mutants like MJJ, Franklin, etc?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Meh, the Odin "fight" (maybe), and the Thanos thing are like fed Galactus' lowest showings.

And are really the only low showings of fed Galactus I can think of. Tyrant if you include zopzop's reasoning too... which you shouldn't.
I didn't create the goddamn thing. Take it up with the writer. Fact is, Galactus prepped and fed on a planet that he said made him feel more powerful than he has in ages and he STILL lost to DP Tyrant after attempting to cheat and use his machines.

Imagine the day when Marvel finally clears up their hierarchy and tells us what each tier list can do.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Imagine the day when Marvel finally clears up their hierarchy and tells us what each tier list can do.
Impossible. It would take a company wide reboot for them to clear up that mess.

Hell they STILL haven't made sense out of that whole HoM bullsh|t and it's consequences yet.

Ughh, House of M. Don't get me started on that one.

Originally posted by zopzop
I didn't create the goddamn thing. Take it up with the writer. Fact is, Galactus prepped and fed on a planet that he said made him feel more powerful than he has in ages and he STILL lost to DP Tyrant after attempting to cheat and use his machines. which naturally reflects on his power level

Maybe Marvel Comics caught a virus after Annihilation that affected Higher Brain functions and thus ever since that they have written nothing but BULLSH!T

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
When a cosmic cube is retconned to being on par with the Abstracts as opposed to its current sub-Celestial power status, then Thanos with the Cosmic Cube stands a chance.

Cubes are by canon below Celestials in power.
In a GoTG comic, the Badoon enslaved the whole Celestial race using only a single cosmic cube. Of course it's an alternate future timeline and one could try and argue that those alternate future Celestials are apparently weaker than their mainstream counterparts, but that line of logic could be applied to the Mad Celestials that Franklin and Galactus fought as well.

Celestials in general just don't seem to be the same cosmic be all end all things they were made out to be in Thor#300. The negative fan reaction to that comic may have been the reason for why they were seemingly downgraded from armored space gods to a bunch of transformer-rejects who can't kill Ben Grimm, can be damaged by CCR-amped Johnny, get easily slagged to death by a random entropy gun in Reed's closet etc.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
In a GoTG comic, the Badoon enslaved the whole Celestial race using only a single cosmic cube. Of course it's an alternate future timeline and one could try and argue that those alternate future Celestials are apparently weaker than their mainstream counterparts, but that line of logic could be applied to the Mad Celestials that Franklin and Galactus fought as well.

Celestials in general just don't seem to be the same cosmic be all end all things they were made out to be in Thor#300. The negative fan reaction to that comic may have been the reason for why they were seemingly downgraded from armored space gods to a bunch of transformer-rejects who can't kill Ben Grimm, can be damaged by CCR-amped Johnny, get easily slagged to death by a random entropy gun in Reed's closet etc.

By that same token it was a single Celestial in GOTG who took charge and quickly took out Protege as he was just getting acclimatized to LT's power and saved the day.

The Celestial race is made up of individuals of varying power levels, not all are as powerful as Tiamut or Arishem. Plus those Celestials were from an alternate timeline so there are a number of ways we can explain that GOTG incident off.

As for the Mad Celestials, remember that the Celestials of 616 stated that when grown up Franklin had the potential to match them in power. Then you have adult Franklin showing that hes in the same ballpark as those Mad Celestials which some could use to argue that that proves the 616 Celestials point plus shows that those Mad Celestials were on par with those of 616.

Imo an average Galactus is a bit beyond a skyfather, but no match for a cube being or a powerful Celestial. When charged up on the energies of multiple planets Galactus gains parity with powerful Celestials.

Youve seen the evidence, it is stated clear as day by the cubes themselves that they are lower than the Celestials and the Abstracst etc in power

Youve heard explanations on panel which states that the cubes were permitted experiments that the Abstracts played along with at the request of the Beyonders for reasons of knowledge and enlightenment

Youve seen the cubes state themselves that yes theyre infinitely powerful, yes they can warp reality and manipulate matter on a universal scale, but there are levels of infinity and the Celestials and Abstracts can do so on a greater scale. All stated on panel by the power in question itself. So who are we as forum readers to say otherwise?

I then demonstrated the point with Odin manipulating and redirecting energies capable of blowing up the universe and yet just months before in the same title it established that Odin is at best on par with an average Galactus.

Just because you can blow up a planet or manipulate a planetary scale of matter does not necessarily make you greater than Ego.

Just because some characters can do the same to a universe does not necessarily make them greater than Eternity.

LEVELS OF INFINITY

Its all about the comparative ease with which feats can be achieved, its all about the comparative natures and characteristics of beings.

Its not as simple as he, can blow up a universe scale of matter so this guys greater than Eternity. Thats the basic logic thats had dominance in these forums for too long.

It is stated clear and explicitly that the Cubes are below the Celestials.

Do not let anyone come up in here and tell you different. If someones argument involves you having to overlook or ignore whats stated clearly on panel in favour of their interpretation of various ambiguous open to interpretation scans then do not have it.

REFUTE THAT BULLshit

What planet are you on?

Originally posted by CortSether
What planet are you on?

I dont follow mate.

If you disagree with what ive said then construct a proper response and refer to the parts you believe erroneous and couple that with some evidence to support your viewpoint.

Enjoy your day

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I dont follow mate.

If you disagree with what ive said then construct a proper response and refer to the parts you believe erroneous and couple that with some evidence to support your viewpoint.

Enjoy your day

No.

Originally posted by CortSether
No.

As you wish.

Cant please everyone

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As you wish.

Cant please everyone

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac186/Sise-Neg/Gifs/tumblr_lhnwijI4Sm1qazkdco1_500.gif

Originally posted by CortSether
http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac186/Sise-Neg/Gifs/tumblr_lhnwijI4Sm1qazkdco1_500.gif
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050621055346/marveldatabase/images/b/b9/Shuma_Gorath_001.jpg
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/23/magikano08065.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050621055346/marveldatabase/images/b/b9/Shuma_Gorath_001.jpg
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/23/magikano08065.jpg

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac186/Sise-Neg/Gifs/9utgk.gif

Soooo Chaos King wins?

Originally posted by ThereIsHope
Soooo Chaos King wins?

No, he loses hard.

Originally posted by CortSether
http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac186/Sise-Neg/Gifs/9utgk.gif

Originally posted by CortSether
No, he loses hard.

Not according to cube beings themselves who state on panel that they are below Celestials and the higher powers of the universe. Said higher powers also confirm the cubes are just permitted experiments.

Your OPINION to the contrary is meaningless in the face of that.

Again. Odin can manipulate energies capable of destroying the universe and potentially the multiverse as we found out in Mighty Thor. Does that make him greater than Eternity?

It does by your logic and that of your pimp.stupid

Who will no doubt show up with a scan spammage and say to all ignore whats explicitly stated and explained on panel, instead listen to my interpretation of how i think the Marvel Universe works

Im not making this up, im just relaying exactly whats stated on panel.

If believing in someone means ignoring whats on panel, then theres something wrong there mate.

Use your mind. Think for yourself. smartass

What about Owen and Post-retcon beyonder? They where fighting on trans-multiversal levels, although the abstracts didn't care, lol.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not according to cube beings themselves who state on panel that they are below Celestials and the higher powers of the universe. Said higher powers also confirm the cubes are just permitted experiments.

Your OPINION to the contrary is meaningless in the face of that.

Again. Odin can manipulate energies capable of destroying the universe and potentially the multiverse as we found out in Mighty Thor. Does that make him greater than Eternity?

It does by your logic and that of your pimp.stupid

Who will no doubt show up with a scan spammage and say to all ignore whats explicitly stated and explained on panel, instead listen to my interpretation of how i think the Marvel Universe works

Im not making this up, im just relaying exactly whats stated on panel.

If believing in someone means ignoring whats on panel, then theres something wrong there mate.

Use your mind. Think for yourself. smartass


http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac186/Sise-Neg/Gifs/opg1d.gif

Originally posted by The Merchant
What about Owen and Post-retcon beyonder? They where fighting on trans-multiversal levels, although the abstracts didn't care, lol.

When Odin fought Seth the effects could be felt across the multiverse also and theyre skyfathers

Levels of infinity.

Remember that.

There is so much fanboyism in this place. KILL IT OH GOD KILL IT

Originally posted by ThereIsHope
There is so much fanboyism in this place. KILL IT OH GOD KILL IT

I dont follow.

Who is being a fanboy here and why?

Because someones stating something you dont agree with? That doesnt make someone a fanboy.

If its because someone fanatically refuses to except explicit non ambiguous on panel proof then instead then why dont you critique the scans presented you take issue with and support your case with your own evidence?

Its easy to pop in and drop a comment. To construct a well justified argument however, that takes quite a bit more effort

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I dont follow.

Who is being a fanboy here and why?

Because someones stating something you dont agree with? That doesnt make someone a fanboy.
Normally that would be the case but your long history of exploding in your pants every time Phoenix is mentioned makes anything you post easily dismissible.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
By that same token it was a single Celestial in GOTG who took charge and quickly took out Protege as he was just getting acclimatized to LT's power and saved the day.

The Celestial race is made up of individuals of varying power levels, not all are as powerful as Tiamut or Arishem. Plus those Celestials were from an alternate timeline so there are a number of ways we can explain that GOTG incident off.

As for the Mad Celestials, remember that the Celestials of 616 stated that when grown up Franklin had the potential to match them in power. Then you have adult Franklin showing that hes in the same ballpark as those Mad Celestials which some could use to argue that that proves the 616 Celestials point plus shows that those Mad Celestials were on par with those of 616.

Imo an average Galactus is a bit beyond a skyfather, but no match for a cube being or a powerful Celestial. When charged up on the energies of multiple planets Galactus gains parity with powerful Celestials.
And that Celestial has never been seen since that comic took place. Also the way Eternity and Hawk God referred to him, it was pretty much established that he was a pretty special guy, even among other Abstracts. On the other hand, no such implication of special status was implied for the cube apart from the fact that it was the last one in existence iirc which in itself doesn't prove its specialty.

That depends on how vast the gap would be between the different breeds of Celestials. I mean on one hand we have specimens like Ashema and Arishem who can store whole pocket dimensions in their bodies or seal them off from the Earthly realm, and on the other we have goofballs like Devron and Gamiel who barely have herald level feats.

Adult Franklin showed that he was pretty much the Mad Gods' daddy on an individual basis. And the Mad Gods had feats all over the place with one of them one-shot half-killing a Starbrand user and then another being slagged to death by Reed's entropy gun.

An average Galactus fought alongside the 616-Celestials against the Galactus Engine, and the very same Galactus remained in the picture to defend the universe after all the other Abstracts involved fled from the scene. ABC logic between cosmic cubes, skyfathers and Celestials isn't enough imo to conclusively prove these characters' power levels.

In fact I can't believe that I am saying this, but I somewhat agree with Tom Brevoort's assessment of these characters in that at such immense scales of power anyone can beat anyone as required by the plot.
Edit: If you don't know what I am talking about, its the responses Brevoort gave to complains he got on his Formspring from fans who were dissatisfied with Galactus' good performance in Fantastic Four #603 in contrast to the skyfathers' performance in Thor # 300.

Let go of the Cube logic. Its not worth getting into. Look at it this way.

If not for Kubiks statement of inferiority to the Celestials. No one would have thought they where inferior in the first place. You than factor in, that writers have not respected that statement for years, which is provoking a building gap inconsistency within the versus forums. And finally, that statement was one time, 20 years ago.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
And that Celestial has never been seen since that comic took place. Also the way Eternity and Hawk God referred to him, it was pretty much established that he was a pretty special guy, even among other Abstracts. On the other hand, no such implication of special status was implied for the cube apart from the fact that it was the last one in existence iirc which in itself doesn't prove its specialty.

And has that particular cube been seen ever since? lol. What relevance to the debate does it have if that Celestial has never been seen since, virtually none of those characters except the Abstracts will be seen again because the story was set in an alternate future timeline. You mentioned about a Cosmic Cube controlling some Celestials in this alternate future timeline, i reminded you of the fact that a Celestial in the same comic saved reality from Protege. The point is that the Celestial race has members of varying different power levels. Thats well known canon. So some Celestials being "many orders of magnitude" greater in power than the cubes and some being on par or below them is entirely feasible. Regardless the cube beings made their comments and their explanation regarding differing levels of infinity and the canon fact that Celestials differ in power level from each other takes care of any discrepancies you perceive on panel.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
That depends on how vast the gap would be between the different breeds of Celestials. I mean on one hand we have specimens like Ashema and Arishem who can store whole pocket dimensions in their bodies or seal them off from the Earthly realm, and on the other we have goofballs like Devron and Gamiel who barely have herald level feats.

True. From what we've seen on panel their power levels differ dramatically, but given the Cube beings comments its safe to conclude that a powerful Celestial is considerably greater than a cube.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Adult Franklin showed that he was pretty much the Mad Gods' daddy on an individual basis. And the Mad Gods had feats all over the place with one of them one-shot half-killing a Starbrand user and then another being slagged to death by Reed's entropy gun.

I wouldnt go that far. Have a re-read of that battle sequence. Galactus powered up on those 4 planets did a better job fighting the Celestials en masse and was winning until they amalgamated. Franklin did ok one on one with the Celestials and started to get overpowered by the Celestial in a non amalgam form before having to unite and channel his power through Galactus. But thats me going off a tangent anyway lol. Focus.

Again. Youre just proving the known point that Celestial members have differing power levels. This explains away any discrepancies or inconsistencies and doesnt contradict the cube beings comments that the Celestials in general are far more powerful than they.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
An average Galactus fought alongside the 616-Celestials against the Galactus Engine, and the very same Galactus remained in the picture to defend the universe after all the other Abstracts involved fled from the scene. ABC logic between cosmic cubes, skyfathers and Celestials isn't enough imo to conclusively prove these characters' power levels.

An average Galactus? Says who?

The only ABC logic here is held by those who would ignore the cube beings own comments about being under Celestials, LT's comments about the cubes being minor cosmics, the comments from both about the Great Powers just playing along with the Beyonders' experiment just because the cube beings can destroy or reshape a universe.

Its like people think Eternitys a universe. The cubes can destroy a universe. Cubes equal or are greater than Eternity That is ABC logic.

Odin and Surtur can destroy a universe as shown in Mighty Thor, however the comic also established Odin is below Galactus in the hierarchy.

It is not JUST being able to do something, its about the comparative ease with which you can do something and the nature and characteristics of the characters.

Silver Surfer can blow up planets and reshape planetary matter. He cannot take on Ego.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
In fact I can't believe that I am saying this, but I somewhat agree with Tom Brevoort's assessment of these characters in that at such immense scales of power anyone can beat anyone as required by the plot.
Edit: If you don't know what I am talking about, its the responses Brevoort gave to complains he got on his Formspring from fans who were dissatisfied with Galactus' good performance in Fantastic Four #603 in contrast to the skyfathers' performance in Thor # 300.

I agree with that completely. We can debate all we want here but ultimately when dealing with characters who can destroy universes and reshape reality, who wins in battle is ultimately down to plot. However how someone would fare in battle isnt the same as who is more powerful.

Originally posted by "Id"
Let go of the Cube logic. Its not worth getting into. Look at it this way.

If not for Kubiks statement of inferiority to the Celestials. No one would have thought they where inferior in the first place. You than factor in, that writers have not respected that statement for years, which is provoking a building gap inconsistency within the versus forums. And finally, that statement was one time, 20 years ago.

The statement was made June 1993, after major cube storylines such as Infinity War and at the same time as Infinity Crusade.

So i cant see how you'd come to the conclusion that it has been ignored.

If anything the fact that in Infinity Crusade multiple cubes were required to bring about universal domination is telling, given this cube retcon.

Can you tell me of any canon cosmic cube stories since which have completely rubbished Kubiks statements since they were made?

How the Cosmic Cubes power was brushed aside by Magus in the last couple years in Guardians of the Galaxy is again telling.

Originally posted by CortSether
Normally that would be the case but your long history of exploding in your pants every time Phoenix is mentioned makes anything you post easily dismissible.
The irony!

Originally posted by zopzop
The irony!

is not present.

i think the way breevoort looked at it is the BEST way to view it, and i think it's a stance that is taken more and more in comics by writers who seem to be flying in the face of some continuity. the establishment of a hierarchy seems to be of FAR greater relevance to fans, than it does to writers. i've always sort of thought this need to rank these supreme power-types was kinda silly.

Originally posted by leonidas
i think the way breevoort looked at it is the BEST way to view it, and i think it's a stance that is taken more and more in comics by writers who seem to be flying in the face of some continuity. the establishment of a hierarchy seems to be of FAR greater relevance to fans, than it does to writers. i've always sort of thought this need to rank these supreme power-types was kinda silly.

Agreed.

It keeps things a lot simpler.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

In a GoTG comic, the Badoon enslaved the whole Celestial race using only a single cosmic cube.

Of course it's an alternate future timeline and one could try and argue
that those alternate future Celestials are apparently weaker than their
mainstream counterparts, but that line of logic could be applied to the
Mad Celestials that Franklin and Galactus fought as well.

Celestials in general just don't seem to be the same cosmic be all end
all things they were made out to be in Thor#300. The negative fan
reaction to that comic may have been the reason for why they were
seemingly downgraded from armored space gods to a bunch of
transformer-rejects who can't kill Ben Grimm, can be damaged by
CCR-amped Johnny, get easily slagged to death by a random
entropy gun in Reed's closet etc.


Anyone who knows anything about CCUs knows they restrict (limit)
their power upon fully maturing as a Cube Being.

CCUs have done more than any Celestial save for Scathan.

And Cube Beings have also surpassed Celestials in feats.

Beyonder (Cube being) Remade All Creation in 2010.

I'll be posting other extraordinary feats unseen much.

nuff said'

Then how come Post-retcon Beyonder and Molecule Man where nothing to the Abstracts.

Originally posted by Mr Master


Anyone who knows anything about CCUs knows they restrict (limit)
their power upon fully maturing as a Cube Being.

CCUs have done more than any Celestial save for Scathan.

And Cube Beings have also surpassed Celestials in feats.

Beyonder (Cube being) Remade All Creation in 2010.

I'll be posting other extraordinary feats unseen much.

nuff said'

Celestials have varying powers as a race thats common knowledge and demonstrated by the GOTG incidents, a CC being able to enslave some members, whilst one Celestial took out Protege.

Reshaping a universe doesnt make you greater than Eternity. No more than planetary destruction or reshaping power makes SS greater than Gaea or Ego.

Levels of infinity.

The cube beings AFTER stories such as Infinity War and during the time of Infinity Crusade that their power is less than the Celestials, FAR less.

They acknowledged that they have infinite power and can do amazing things to space/time but they made it clear that there are levels of infinity and that despite what they are capable of, the likes of the Celestials and up are greater than them.

Unless you see within 616 a cosmic cube face down the Celestials or the Abstracts then you have no justification to try and claim as fact that that is not the case.

The characters in question, the cubes, state where they are in the hierarchy and explain about levels of infinity and that is enough to cover any discrepancies.

Odin can wield sufficient energies to destroy the universe if ALLOWED to. That does not make him greater than Eternity.

The cubes as stated on panel are permitted experiments that the Great Powers stated they played along with and allowed to be used and to develop with little interference save for some encouragement to help them develop into cube beings.

The cube beings power are not cut down in power from the cubes, however as sentient beings, the way they use that power is different. The power level remains the same. So Kubiks statement, his EXPLICIT statement remains secure within continuity.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Then how come Post-retcon Beyonder and Molecule Man where nothing to the Abstracts.

Despite the Cubes stating they are below the abstracts and Celestials, despite them explaining that regardless of the things they can do and their infinite power, that there are levels of infinity and the Celestials are greater than them, Mr Master is possessed of the basic logic that if you can warp reality, or possess enough power to destroy a universe then you are greater than Eternity

Odin can wield and manipulate energies capable of destroying the multiverse:

http://imageshack.us/a/img28/2972/thorzone018.th.jpg

and yet the same series made it clear that in the hierarchy he is below an average Galactus in power :

http://imageshack.us/a/img715/8497/0902201106.th.jpg

What Mr Master needs to acknowledge is that the cube beings, the things in question have made explicit statements about the matter we're debating, statements which counter discrepancies he may perceive (feats that seem too great for the cubes stated place in the hierarchy)

Characters like Odin show that universal scale destructive or manipulative power isnt automatically an indicator of a position in the hierarchy greater than the Abstracts.

levels of infinity

Its all about the comparative ease with which beings can pull off the same feats. Its all about how they fare in battle (whilst considering any factors which may determine whether they win or lose beyond pure power) and it is about the nature and characteristics of the entities i.e their roles, agendas

Odin can destroy the multiverse if he was allowed to. Many characters could. However that doesnt make him greater or on par with Eternity. He couldnt pull off the feat as easily as Galactus, who couldnt pull it off as easy as Eternity, who couldnt do it as easily as LT.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Celestials have varying powers as a race thats common
knowledge and demonstrated by the GOTG incidents, a CC being
able to enslave some members, whilst one Celestial took out
Protege.

Reshaping a universe doesnt make you greater than Eternity. No
more than planetary destruction or reshaping power makes SS
greater than Gaea or Ego.

Levels of infinity.
The cube beings AFTER stories such as Infinity War and during the
time of Infinity Crusade that their power is less than the Celestials, FAR less.

They acknowledged that they have infinite power and can do
amazing things to space/time but they made it clear that there are
levels of infinity and that despite what they are capable of, the likes
of the Celestials and up are greater than them.

Unless you see within 616 a cosmic cube face down the Celestials
or the Abstracts then you have no justification to try and claim as
fact that that is not the case.
The characters in question, the cubes, state where they are in the
hierarchy and explain about levels of infinity and that is enough to
cover any discrepancies.
Odin can wield sufficient energies to destroy the universe if
ALLOWED to. That does not make him greater than Eternity.
The cubes as stated on panel are permitted experiments that the
Great Powers stated they played along with and allowed to be used
and to develop with little interference save for some
encouragement to help them develop into cube beings.
The cube beings power are not cut down in power from the cubes,
however as sentient beings, the way they use that power is
different. The power level remains the same. So Kubiks statement,
his EXPLICIT statement remains secure within continuity.
facepalm

Same ol same ol ...

This comedy is such, I just can't stop laughing over here.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Despite the Cubes stating they are below the abstracts and Celestials, despite them explaining that regardless of the things they can do and their infinite power, that there are levels of infinity and the Celestials are greater than them, Mr Master is possessed of the basic logic that if you can warp reality, or possess enough power to destroy a universe then you are greater than Eternity

Odin can wield and manipulate energies capable of destroying the multiverse:

and yet the same series made it clear that in the hierarchy he is below an average Galactus in power :

What Mr Master needs to acknowledge is that the cube beings, the things in question have made explicit statements about the matter we're debating, statements which counter discrepancies he may perceive (feats that seem too great for the cubes stated place in the hierarchy)

Characters like Odin show that universal scale destructive or manipulative power isnt automatically an indicator of a position in the hierarchy greater than the Abstracts.

levels of infinity

Its all about the comparative ease with which beings can pull off the same feats. Its all about how they fare in battle (whilst considering any factors which may determine whether they win or lose beyond pure power) and it is about the nature and characteristics of the entities i.e their roles, agendas

Odin can destroy the multiverse if he was allowed to. Many characters could. However that doesnt make him greater or on par with Eternity. He couldnt pull off the feat as easily as Galactus, who couldnt pull it off as easy as Eternity, who couldnt do it as easily as LT.
Get this hyperbolic garbage out here dogs.

I could care less about verbal boastings
when the character hasn't done jack to warrant such esteem.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Get this hyperbolic garbage out here dogs.

I could care less about verbal boastings
when the character hasn't done jack to warrant such esteem.

Verbal boastings?

Who? The cubes or Odin?

The cubes are stating their power is inferior so they have nothing to boast about.

And Odin isnt boasting, he simply acted and channeled energies capable of destroying the multiverse.

Yet the same series establishes hes below Galactus

Your ABC logic, this character can destroy a universe so theyre abstract level is denied on panel and is a superficial assessment and conclusion.

I admire your passion for comics though

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Verbal boastings?

Who? The cubes or Odin?

The cubes are stating their power is inferior so they have nothing to boast about.

And Odin isnt boasting, he simply acted and channeled energies capable of destroying the multiverse.

Yet the same series establishes hes below Galactus

Your ABC logic, this character can destroy a universe so theyre abstract level is denied on panel and is a superficial assessment and conclusion.

I admire your passion for comics though
Still NOTHING!

Let's see a Celestial performing a Universal feat.

Let's see a Celestial creating and/or destroying even a single universe.

Let's see a Celestial defeating someone who's even just universal.
(oops, universal Franky is killing Celestials)

Let's see a Celestial's mean something to even just the Universe.

hm

Aside from Scathan ... there is no Celestial that has done anything of cosmic significance.

While Cube beings and Containment Units have perfomred on a Universal level,
Multiversal level,
TRANS-Multiversal level,
and Omniversal level.

Next.

Originally posted by "Id"

Let go of the Cube logic. Its not worth getting into. Look at it this way.

If not for Kubiks statement of inferiority to the Celestials. No one
would have thought they where inferior in the first place. You than
factor in, that writers have not respected that statement for years,
which is provoking a building gap inconsistency within the versus
forums. And finally, that statement was one time, 20 years ago.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The statement was made June 1993, after major cube storylines
such as Infinity War and at the same time as Infinity Crusade.

So i cant see how you'd come to the conclusion that it has been ignored.

If anything the fact that in Infinity Crusade multiple cubes were
required to bring about universal domination is telling, given this
cube retcon.
"Universal domination?"

The Goddess was going to conquer All RealitieS with the 30 Cubes:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14775598_Goddess1.jpg

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14775599_Goddess2.jpg

==================

So there was a little debate over Kubik's statements
concerning Celestials being above Cube beings.
Does this verbal claim still hold weight, are Cube beings still below Celestials?

Kubik made that claim back in 1993.

==================


The last Beyonder retcon took place within a canon story revisiting Secret Wars.

The Beyonder is once again the same ol' Beyonder that came from the Beyond Realm.

And, since the latest Handbooks haven't changed that, even mentioned it,
we still have this published 3 years after Illuminati
so ... his CCU status, still remains.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12101887_Cube_beings_2008_bio.jpg

(OHotMU 2008 Lord Chaos/Master Order bio)

---------------------------------------------------------


Anyway, the story centers around Spiderman. (2010, 4 issue mini)

Dr Doom, right before he absorbed most of the Beyonder's power,
he allowed it to be absorbed by Wolverine and Spiderman, (who he brought along for the ride)
for one billionth of a second,
in order to test the power,
and to see how the lives of others would play out with the power,
before he (Doom) took it for himself.

---------------------------------------------------------


Ok, so here it is, Doom first gives the power to Wolverine:

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/12100770_Cube_being_-_all_powerful6.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------


We don't get to see what Wolvy experiences, but then Spiderman gets the power:

and well ... enjoy!

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100806_Cube_being_-_all_powerful7.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100812_Cube_being_-_all_powerful8.jpg

"In that moment I gained the powers ...

I was Everywhere ... and Everything ... and Everyone ...

In that moment, which is this moment. I remade all of creation."

---------------------------------------------------------


It's not just talk either, we see what Spiderman is talking about,

... he remade All Creation:

He also knocks mighty Galactus out with a single punch,
on top of rewinding all time effortlessly:

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100435_Cube_being_-_all_powerful1.jpg
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100438_Cube_being_-_all_powerful2.jpg
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100442_Cube_being_-_all_powerful3.jpg
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100444_Cube_being_-_all_powerful4.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------


This scan below follows up from the ones above.

Yes, it's still Spiderman curious about how he got the power
so he's actually looking into Future
watching Dr Doom explain what I told yall about using Wolvy & Spidey as test subjects.

Doom also tells us:

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100447_Cube_being_-_all_powerful5.jpg

"The power I now possess reaches into the Past, the Future, All Time and Space"



http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/12101158_Cube_being_-_all_powerful9.jpg

"This is a power beyond anyone's control"


==================


Well then,
not only were Molecule Man and Beyonder able to warp reality on a Trans-Multiversal scale.

But most of Beyonder's power on its own was able to REMAKE ALL CREATION!

Now go ahead and tell me Celestials are above this.

Wait, in the engagement of this debate I've lost myself.

My goodness ..
that shit's incredible what Spiderman and Doom did/were with most of a Cube being's power.

Len Kaminski is the writer for both stories:

"Riddle of the Celestials" ... and ... "Molecular Psychology"

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/12092229_Cube_beings_retcon1.jpg

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/12092228_Cube_being_retcon2.jpg

"M P" ... was published one year AFTER ... "RotC" ...

------------------------------------------------------------------


So Kubik stated Celestials were above Cube Beings in 1993.

Now the same Writer that had Kubik state that,
has Cube beings doing this:

Post-Beyonder and Molecule Man warping Reality withIN Realities across the Omniverse!

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/12092280_Cube_beings_retcon6.jpghttp://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/12092283_Cube_beings_retcon7.jpg


And killing a Cube being would wreck the Multiverse!

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/14776656_Kubik_says.jpg

------------------------------------------------------------------


Len Kaminski came up with the intricate explanation in the Kubik scenario defining the Celestials
involving levels of infinity based on Cantor's theorem.

Yet, he clearly thought differently one year later as to where Cube beings stand in the "infinity" department.

Warranting the attention of the LT,
having the LT state, restrained "Owen Reece is one of the most powerful beings in all creation,"
and most importantly making New updated statements via a character infinities above Kubik,
and furthermore putting them (Owen/Beyonder) to demonstrate a Trans-Multiversal feat,
and even more, letting us know to kill a Cube being means to F up the Multiverse.

Just sayin.

=======================================


In 2002 the Cube performs on a ridiculous level and is considered to be GOD itself!

=======================================


Here a Single CCU is used to give all the heroes & villains of reality 9777 their own Universe!

(616 characters were involved in this story)

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14776825_CCU_X1.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14776826_CCU_X2.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14776827_CCU_X3.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14776828_CCU_X4.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14776829_CCU_X5.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14776830_CCU_X6.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14776831_CCU_X8.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------------


This is an incredible On Panel read about that CCU above ^^^ being GOD!















http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14776839_CCU_X16.jpg

"How can this be GOD?"

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14776840_CCU_X17.jpg

"How can I possibly hold GOD in My hand?" ...

Originally posted by Mr Master
Still NOTHING!

Let's see a Celestial performing a Universal feat.

Let's see a Celestial creating and/or destroying even a single universe.

Let's see a Celestial defeating someone who's even just universal.
(oops, universal Franky is killing Celestials)

Let's see a Celestial's mean something to even just the Universe.

hm

Aside from Scathan ... there is no Celestial that has done anything of cosmic significance.

While Cube beings and Containment Units have perfomred on a Universal level,
Multiversal level,
TRANS-Multiversal level,
and Omniversal level.

Next.

Your point is irrelevant when Odin performs universal and multiversal scale feats, whilst still being shown and stated to be below Galactus in the same series. And recent continuity shows Galactus is on par with the average Celestial and likely inferior to the most powerful.

Is Odin more powerful than the Celestials and Abstracts because of his on panel feat in light of this?

If you can wield universal energies it does not put you on abstract level.

Many can and have the power to destroy a universe, but as the cube stated its all about levels of infinity.

They are less infinite than the Celestials or the Abstrcats so those feats they can pull off would be a lot easier to pull off by those higher in the hierarchy.

Originally posted by Mr Master
=======================================


In 2002 the Cube performs on a ridiculous level and is considered to be GOD itself!

=======================================


Here a Single CCU is used to give all the heroes & villains of reality 9777 their own Universe!

(616 characters were involved in this story)

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14776825_CCU_X1.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14776826_CCU_X2.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14776827_CCU_X3.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14776828_CCU_X4.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14776829_CCU_X5.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14776830_CCU_X6.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14776831_CCU_X8.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------------


This is an incredible On Panel read about that CCU above ^^^ being GOD!















http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14776839_CCU_X16.jpg

"How can this be GOD?"

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14776840_CCU_X17.jpg

"How can I possibly hold GOD in My hand?" ...

Out of continuity im afraid. A wasted post.

Originally posted by Mr Master


"Universal domination?"

The Goddess was going to conquer All RealitieS with the 30 Cubes:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14775598_Goddess1.jpg

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14775599_Goddess2.jpg

The goddess' INTENTION was to eventually do so.

NOT simultaneously. One by one going by the effort to take over 616 with all of those cubes and yet still failing to do so.

INTENTION means nothing. She was thwarted

Originally posted by Mr Master
Len Kaminski is the writer for both stories:

"Riddle of the Celestials" ... and ... "Molecular Psychology"

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/12092229_Cube_beings_retcon1.jpg

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/12092228_Cube_being_retcon2.jpg

"M P" ... was published one year AFTER ... "RotC" ...

------------------------------------------------------------------


So Kubik stated Celestials were above Cube Beings in 1993.

Now the same Writer that had Kubik state that,
has Cube beings doing this:

Post-Beyonder and Molecule Man warping Reality withIN Realities across the Omniverse!

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/12092280_Cube_beings_retcon6.jpghttp://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/12092283_Cube_beings_retcon7.jpg


And killing a Cube being would wreck the Multiverse!

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/14776656_Kubik_says.jpg

------------------------------------------------------------------


Len Kaminski came up with the intricate explanation in the Kubik scenario defining the Celestials
involving levels of infinity based on Cantor's theorem.

Yet, he clearly thought differently one year later as to where Cube beings stand in the "infinity" department.

Warranting the attention of the LT,
having the LT state, restrained "Owen Reece is one of the most powerful beings in all creation,"
and most importantly making New updated statements via a character infinities above Kubik,
and furthermore putting them (Owen/Beyonder) to demonstrate a Trans-Multiversal feat,
and even more, letting us know to kill a Cube being means to F up the Multiverse.

Just sayin.

And yet Odin and Seths battle (2 skyfathers) was causing havoc across the universe and just these two skyfathers were creating effects that were felt across the multiverse.

Cube beings are higher up than skyfathers so their battle wasnt just shaking the multiverse it was having limited warping effects randomly across it.

AGAIN. Levels of infinity.

As you go up the tier the same feats become easier and greater in scale.

Odin a skyfather who is below Galactus wielded enough power to destroy the multiverse, the potency of the power was confirmed on panel and he channeled it, no boasts he channeled it.

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/7936/thorzone008.th.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img28/2972/thorzone018.th.jpg

Odin is below the Cubes and below Galactus

Your logic would dictate hes greater than Eternity

facepalm

I know everyone sees you for what you are.

Odin .. LOL!

Anyway .. you're right.

You're a waste of my time.

Hopefully the onlookers will look at the evidence notice the circus here.

I mean dogs, you were bad, but this is a new low.
Originally posted by Mr Master

==================


Spiderman gets the power:

and well ... enjoy!

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100806_Cube_being_-_all_powerful7.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100812_Cube_being_-_all_powerful8.jpg

"In that moment I gained the powers ...

I was Everywhere ... and Everything ... and Everyone ...

In that moment, which is this moment. I remade all of creation."

---------------------------------------------------------


It's not just talk either, we see what Spiderman is talking about,

... he remade All Creation:

He also knocks mighty Galactus out with a single punch,
on top of rewinding all time effortlessly:

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100435_Cube_being_-_all_powerful1.jpg
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100438_Cube_being_-_all_powerful2.jpg
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100442_Cube_being_-_all_powerful3.jpg
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100444_Cube_being_-_all_powerful4.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------


This scan below follows up from the ones above.

Yes, it's still Spiderman curious about how he got the power
so he's actually looking into Future
watching Dr Doom explain what I told yall about using Wolvy & Spidey as test subjects.

Doom also tells us:

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100447_Cube_being_-_all_powerful5.jpg

"The power I now possess reaches into the Past, the Future, All Time and Space"



http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/12101158_Cube_being_-_all_powerful9.jpg

"This is a power beyond anyone's control"


==================


Well then,
not only were Molecule Man and Beyonder able to warp reality on a Trans-Multiversal scale.

But most of Beyonder's power on its own was able to REMAKE ALL CREATION!

Now go ahead and tell me Celestials are above this.

Wait, in the engagement of this debate I've lost myself.

My goodness ..
that shit's incredible what Spiderman and Doom did/were with most of a Cube being's power.
How that taste?

Here the point will be reiterated. I felt it was getting lost in your spam.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm


"our power is AS nothing to that of the Celestials"

"yes our might is infinite but there are levels of infinity"

http://imageshack.us/a/img651/7086/ffann02656.th.jpg


Here the point is explained perfectly. There are infinite odd numbers, infinite even numbers both infinite in their own right, but both are just facets of an even more infinite quantity...whole numbers.

"a transfinite level of power many orders of magnitude beyond our own"

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/415/ffann02657.th.jpg

the power of a cube being is not enough to save it from a single Celestial, if judgement was against the two cube beings, he could have destroyed them both :

http://imageshack.us/a/img809/6136/ffann02658.th.jpg


Odin can manipulate energies which can destroy a universe:

http://imageshack.us/a/img28/2972/thorzone018.th.jpg

Odin is slightly weaker than a hungry Galactus and no match for an energised one:

http://imageshack.us/a/img690/7317/0902201107.th.jpg

Levels of infinity

Manipulating universal scale energies/matter does not automatically make a being above Eternity as ive just shown. Especially not when said beings state themselves they are many times inferior in power than even a Celestial.

Silver Surfer can destroy a planet and manipulate planetary scale matter. Can he do so as easily as Galactus? No.

Because Silver Surfer can do those things does that make him greater than Ego the living planet? HELL NO

Different levels of infinity

All youre doing is proving my point and the cube beings points about differing levels of infinity.

Simply being able to destroy a universe or manipulate universal scale matter does not place you on or above Eternitys level.

Odin can and has manipulated energies yet he is below Galactus.

Odin and Seth fought and the battle had universal and multiversal consequences.

But guess what?

Cos the cube beings are a tier above skyfathers, when they thought, they didnt just shake up the multiverse, there were limited warping effects in random places throughout it as their energies radiated.

As you go up the tiers the same feats are easier to pull off and can be done on a greater scale.