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Silver Surfer
Gladiator
Nova
Quasar
Beta Ray Bill
Ronan

Vs

Thor
Hercules
Loki
Ares
Sersi
Ikaris

Team 1

Team 1 as well

This fight isn't even close. The gods absolutely stomp the Annihilators.

Good match, but Ill go with the Annihilators to win more than not.

Gods.

Ganna have to say Annihilators, I think it'd be tough though, with the Gods having Thor and Herc

Originally posted by byrdgang21
Silver Surfer
Gladiator
Nova
Quasar
Beta Ray Bill
Ronan

Vs

Thor
Hercules
Loki
Ares
Sersi
Ikaris

Thor and the surfer are a wash, with an edge to Thor. With any kind of prep Loki can take on any two of the other guys on team one. Sersi is beating anyone else on team one. Anyone on team 2beats Ronan. This fight isn't even fair.

Annihilators take this.

Annihilators

Originally posted by dmills
Annihilators
Aren't both nova and quasar helpless against magic? The biggest gun in annihilators i.e. surfer is a ***** of mjolnir. If thor decided to drain surfer, its over for baldy.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Aren't both nova and quasar helpless against magic? The biggest gun in annihilators i.e. surfer is a ***** of mjolnir. If thor decided to drain surfer, its over for baldy.

... What?
Your two sentances don't make sense, at all...



Here's how it would go:

Ronan is ****ed, so there's that. But all other members of Annihilators fly.
On the other hands, Ares and Hercules are stuck on Earth. I don't see Ikaris beating anyone but Ronan in the Annihilators. Thor will have his hands full with Surfer. Beta Ray Bill can destroy either Ikaris or Sersi. Loki will be a problem, but whatever. The Gods loose because two of them seriously lacks versatility, and most importantly, they can't fly.

Ronan is being undersold here

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Ronan is being undersold here

I like him a lot, but being grounded, he has to go against both Ares and Hercules, and I don't see him win that, at all

Originally posted by abhilegend
Aren't both nova and quasar helpless against magic? The biggest gun in annihilators i.e. surfer is a ***** of mjolnir. If thor decided to drain surfer, its over for baldy.

Has Thor ever been shown to drain the Surfer? Annihilators have an exact copy of Thor in BRB. He's more likely to drain Loki than Thor draining the Surfer. Gladiator is a beast and can potentially beat anybody on team 2. Nova and Quaze won't automatically keel over for magic users. Even the weakest guy in Ronan has a universal weapon that can protect him from Sersi and allow him to beat Ares.

Annihilators are just superior.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
I like him a lot, but being grounded, he has to go against both Ares and Hercules, and I don't see him win that, at all

He has way more versatility and options than they do

Originally posted by Endless Mike
He has way more versatility and options than they do

Oh yeah, for sure! But the problem is: what will happen when Hercules put his hands on him?
I see Ronan somewhere between Ares and Hercules, in term of power. Hercules rolls in the big league, and Ronan will have a hard time to deal with both him, and Ares

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
... What?
Your two sentances don't make sense, at all...



Here's how it would go:

Ronan is ****ed, so there's that. But all other members of Annihilators fly.
On the other hands, Ares and Hercules are stuck on Earth. I don't see Ikaris beating anyone but Ronan in the Annihilators. Thor will have his hands full with Surfer. Beta Ray Bill can destroy either Ikaris or Sersi. Loki will be a problem, but whatever. The Gods loose because two of them seriously lacks versatility, and most importantly, they can't fly.
Quasar and nova are both helpless against magic as their powers can't directly affect it. Surfer has one of the worst records against energy draining. Some space pirates have drained him to near powerlessness. Mjolnir is the best energy absorber weapon under skyfather level. Do the math. For the rest, flying isn't as much of an advantage as you are making it to be. Sersi would beat anybody save surfer here. Herc and Ikaris can hold their own against anyone here.Originally posted by Tar-Antado
Has Thor ever been shown to drain the Surfer? Annihilators have an exact copy of Thor in BRB. He's more likely to drain Loki than Thor draining the Surfer. Gladiator is a beast and can potentially beat anybody on team 2. Nova and Quaze won't automatically keel over for magic users. Even the weakest guy in Ronan has a universal weapon that can protect him from Sersi and allow him to beat Ares.

Annihilators are just superior.
Considering his track record against draining, it was good for surfer that thor didn't used it on him. BRB draining Loki, don't make me laugh. Lulz at Gladiator potentially beating ANYONE in team 2. Quasar and nova are completely helpless against Loki here. Ronan would get his ass beat by anyone here.

Annihilators wins.

Ares and Ikaris are the weaker links

No, Nova isn't helpless against magic.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Thor and the surfer are a wash, with an edge to Thor. With any kind of prep Loki can take on any two of the other guys on team one. Sersi is beating anyone else on team one. Anyone on team 2beats Ronan. This fight isn't even fair.

Anyone on Team 1 beats Ares, and maybe Ikaris and Hercules too. There's no prep in the OP stips.

You're right, this fight isn't fair. Team 1, pretty clear win.

Gods, but Annihilators aren't getting stomped unless some very specific match ups happen.

Originally posted by byrdgang21
Silver Surfer
Gladiator
Nova
Quasar
Beta Ray Bill
Ronan

Vs

Thor
Hercules
Loki
Ares
Sersi
Ikaris

Ikaris vs gladiator = wash
Ronan has shown great transmutation before effectively ending a threat that could slice through time/space with his mallet... Vs sersi. His raw strength and durability plus transmuting keeps her on her toes. She's powerful but doesn't react instantly. Wash.
Beta ray bill vs Thor: wash. Brb has gone or to toe without his own hammer. Their differences are not too great at this level. And either can use the others hammer so if Brb can disarm though... Slight edge to Thor.
Hercules and area are trapped on the ground while everyone fights overhead. :-/

Blah team one would take it for me. Loki right now is a child iirc and wouldn't be the same threat as an adult.

Originally posted by dmills
No, Nova isn't helpless against magic.
I thought I read it somewhere in Nova 31.

You know that you're a badass team when your supposed "weak link" is Ronan lol. Loved how he dispatched Stellaris in his Annihilation mini.

Originally posted by dmills
You know that you're a badass team when your supposed "weak link" is Ronan lol. Loved how he dispatched Stellaris in his Annihilation mini.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I thought I read it somewhere in Nova 31.

I don't do "hokus pokus" lol. He's got some pretty decent magic resistance feats under his belt though.

Originally posted by dmills
Nova has admitted that he can't do jack with magical powered beings.
shifty
dur

Didn't Thor beat SS and Beta Ray Bill at once?

Originally posted by keiththegreat
Didn't Thor beat SS and Beta Ray Bill at once?
No.

Silver Surfer vs Thor = Irrelevant. Neither will beat each other fast enough, so it's up to others to decide it

Gladiator vs Herc = Gladiator... pretty handily

Nova vs Loki = Decently long battle, so it's not the most relevant as well

Quasar vs Ares = Quasar smashes Ares

Beta Ray Bill vs Sersi = Beta fast enough to make a difference for his team

Ronan vs Ikaris = Pretty even fight

That leaves Glads, Beta, and Quasar to help out the others. Hell, even if just Quasar wins in the timeframe, it will lead to a win.

BRB is not beating Sersi. Not by a longshot.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Silver Surfer vs Thor = Irrelevant. Neither will beat each other fast enough, so it's up to others to decide it

Gladiator vs Herc = Gladiator... pretty handily

Nova vs Loki = Decently long battle, so it's not the most relevant as well

Quasar vs Ares = Quasar smashes Ares

Beta Ray Bill vs Sersi = Beta fast enough to make a difference for his team

Ronan vs Ikaris = Pretty even fight

That leaves Glads, Beta, and Quasar to help out the others. Hell, even if just Quasar wins in the timeframe, it will lead to a win.
Actually thor can just drain surfer with mjolnir considering surfer's track record against draining. Just a sample
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_05.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_06.jpg

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
BRB is not beating Sersi. Not by a longshot. Oh that's right... you think Sersi can beat Surfer.

Oh you

Originally posted by abhilegend
Actually thor can just drain surfer with mjolnir considering surfer's track record against draining. Just a sample
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_05.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_06.jpg Oh ya, because that's what Thor's going to do.

Surfer zips around Thor and spams him with blasts considering Thor's reaction speed.

Or they stalemate until someone comes to help.

Side Note, when's the last time Surfer's been drained? I know HE devolved him, and before that it was the guy with Gladiator's powers and the Uni-Power which ended with Surfer overloading him?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Oh ya, because that's what Thor's going to do.

Surfer zips around Thor and spams him with blasts considering Thor's reaction speed.

Or they stalemate until someone comes to help.

Side Note, when's the last time Surfer's been drained? I know HE devolved him, and before that it was the guy with Gladiator's powers and the Uni-Power which ended with Surfer overloading him?
I said IF thor wanted, he's done it before on Presence. Surfer has speedblitzed someone? News to me.

He was cut off from PC on skaar twice and drained in defenders v2 8. I haven't read that comic so can't tell.

Ikaris recent appear in HULK comic. He give Rulk a decent pounding. Anyone got some panels?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Oh that's right... you think Sersi can beat Surfer.

Oh you

I'd be curious to see where I said that. Are u implying that Bill can beat the Surfer... Because he can't.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer has speedblitzed someone? News to me.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I'd be curious to see where I said that. Are u implying that Bill can beat the Surfer... Because he can't.
Bill while weakened has two shotted surfer.*first was a sucker shot though*

Originally posted by abhilegend
Bill while weakened has two shotted surfer.*first was a sucker shot though*

In a forum fight he would stand zero chance.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
In a forum fight he would stand zero chance.
No.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I said IF thor wanted, he's done it before on Presence. Surfer has speedblitzed someone? News to me.

He was cut off from PC on skaar twice and drained in defenders v2 8. I haven't read that comic so can't tell. Surfer's speeding around blasting random ships and shit is about as relevant as Presence is to Surfer.
Also, I was talking about how in character it is, and Surfer zipping around spamming blasts isn't exactly you know... out of character.

Cut off isn't the same as being drained. And that was over ten years ago, and we don't know the context.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I'd be curious to see where I said that. Are u implying that Bill can beat the Surfer... Because he can't. I assumed when you said anyone else, you meant every character on team one. But if you don't think she can beat Surfer (which I hope you do), then carry on.

What does Sersi do to Bill though?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Surfer's speeding around blasting random ships and shit is about as relevant as Presence is to Surfer.
Also, I was talking about how in character it is, and Surfer zipping around spamming blasts isn't exactly you know... out of character.

Cut off isn't the same as being drained. And that was over ten years ago, and we don't know the context.

I assumed when you said anyone else, you meant every character on team one. But if you don't think she can beat Surfer (which I hope you do), then carry on.

What does Sersi do to Bill though?
Ok, thor drawing energy in mjolnir isn't OOC for him too. Surfer can zip around all he want. Context for defenders issue? Oh and panther also drained him. Its canon and unless surfer has some new showing where he resisted draining its all we have. Chain him in adamantium?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Surfer's speeding around blasting random ships and shit is about as relevant as Presence is to Surfer.
Also, I was talking about how in character it is, and Surfer zipping around spamming blasts isn't exactly you know... out of character.

Cut off isn't the same as being drained. And that was over ten years ago, and we don't know the context.

I assumed when you said anyone else, you meant every character on team one. But if you don't think she can beat Surfer (which I hope you do), then carry on.

What does Sersi do to Bill though?

Well I started by saying thor takes on the surfer, then a couple of lines later said she beats anyone else.

What she do to bill? Im posting on my phone right now... I'll reply to that later on.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ok, thor drawing energy in mjolnir isn't OOC for him too. Surfer can zip around all he want. Its canon and unless surfer has some new showing where he resisted draining its all we have. Chain him in adamantium? Drawing in energy is different than draining a character.

He resisted an energy vampire backed by Gladiator's power and many others, and the Uni-Power. And unless Surfer is just standing still as opposed to moving, and blocking with his board, he's not getting simply drained anymore... until Bendis gets his hands on him. I mean, the guy ****ing stopped a hammer swing. He's clearly a little more powerful now.

Bill loosens the chains IMO.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Drawing in energy is different than draining a character.

He resisted an energy vampire backed by Gladiator's power and many others, and the Uni-Power. And unless Surfer is just standing still as opposed to moving, and blocking with his board, he's not getting simply drained anymore... until Bendis gets his hands on him. I mean, the guy ****ing stopped a hammer swing. He's clearly a little more powerful now.

Bill loosens the chains IMO.
That's all thor has to do to absorb surfer's cosmic blasts.

I haven't read the comic, can you post the scans? Wow, gladiator's energy manipulation powers!! That's skyfather level feat right there.

You're in denial.uhuh
Injured thor. How does stopping a hammer swing automatically retcons all your low showings? Surfer has one of the worst records against draining.

What if the chain is around his dick?

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's all thor has to do to absorb surfer's cosmic blasts.

I haven't read the comic, can you post the scans? Wow, gladiator's energy manipulation powers!! That's skyfather level feat right there.

You're in denial.uhuh
Injured thor. How does stopping a hammer swing automatically retcons all your low showings? Surfer has one of the worst records against draining.

What if the chain is around his dick? He can do that. Doesn't really effect Surfer though.

No. I don't have access to them currently.
Meh, he was backed by Glad's powers. Which would increase his own. It was mostly to show that Surfer is vastly more powerful than Glads.

"Injured" Thor who wasn't said to be weakened, and hit Galactus really really hard.
It doesn't, but it makes him seem more powerful. The only "recent" power draining caused the guy to get killed, and involved him getting cut off due to discs and the planet.
Power draining in a Thor vs Surfer thread is about as relevant as Surfer's telepathy.

He doesn't have a dick

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Silver Surfer vs Thor = Irrelevant. Neither will beat each other fast enough, so it's up to others to decide it

Gladiator vs Herc = Gladiator... pretty handily

Nova vs Loki = Decently long battle, so it's not the most relevant as well

Quasar vs Ares = Quasar smashes Ares

Beta Ray Bill vs Sersi = Beta fast enough to make a difference for his team

Ronan vs Ikaris = Pretty even fight

That leaves Glads, Beta, and Quasar to help out the others. Hell, even if just Quasar wins in the timeframe, it will lead to a win.

i agree with thor/ss. and quasar (who has an even better energy absorbing record than thor imo) drained a star's worth of energy from ss and ss DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE. so yeah, you're right--energy drain=useless. absorbing blasts would work, but that just leads to an extended battle.

loki/nova might be a good battle. depends on how loki fights and whether you believe he could/would transmute nova or bfr him. the battle could be over quick--in loki's favor. i don't really see nova beating him at all, though he could prolong it, depending.

quasar/ares--quasar pwns him pretty quick.

bill/sersi--again, depends on your view of transmuting. she once gave thor gills without a problem so i think it's not impossible to say her transumting abilities COULD affect bill. if so, she could take him, but not in a straight up fight. sersi in these forum battles in difficult to figure.

ronan\ikaris--ronan's pretty tough but i'd side with ikaris for a pretty solid majority. he has some pretty good feats back in the day. it wouldn't be an easy or fast fight though.

herc/glads--glads could win quick but only if he resorts to bfr which would be very easy, unless they're in a dome. glads could always fly and use his vision powers to win eventually. if he fights in a traditional sense, the battle would not be a short one at all imo and if he goes all prideful warrior and stays h2h, i'd take herc.

i'd still go annihilators due to the simply greater overall versatility. herc and ares are too one-dimensional. quasar could easily bfr either one of the them at the start. that would make the numbers advantage too great immediately. the only way the gods could win is if sersi can transmute them, but that tends to fall into the limitless fallacy very quickly and is always a route i'm afraid to travel too far down.....

so, yeah. we agree. just some differences in how it might come about.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ok, thor drawing energy in mjolnir isn't OOC for him too. Surfer can zip around all he want. Context for defenders issue? Oh and panther also drained him. Its canon and unless surfer has some new showing where he resisted draining its all we have. Chain him in adamantium?



Iron Man has beaten SS by drainage of TPC too...

Originally posted by leonidas
loki/nova might be a good battle. depends on how loki fights and whether you believe he could/would transmute nova or bfr him. the battle could be over quick--in loki's favor. i don't really see nova beating him at all, though he could prolong it, depending.

bill/sersi--again, depends on your view of transmuting. she once gave thor gills without a problem so i think it's not impossible to say her transumting abilities COULD affect bill. if so, she could take him, but not in a straight up fight. sersi in these forum battles in difficult to figure.

ronan\ikaris--ronan's pretty tough but i'd side with ikaris for a pretty solid majority. he has some pretty good feats back in the day. it wouldn't be an easy or fast fight though.

herc/glads--glads could win quick but only if he resorts to bfr which would be very easy, unless they're in a dome. glads could always fly and use his vision powers to win eventually. if he fights in a traditional sense, the battle would not be a short one at all imo and if he goes all prideful warrior and stays h2h, i'd take herc.
Nova can teleport, and I believe he's got some resistance to transmutation as well (not sure on that).

Ya, she's a pickle. I figure a ferocious Beta can get close enough to **** her up though.

No, it wouldn't be. I mean, Ronan's given fits to Surfer/Thor back in the day, so I figure he could hold Ikaris off long enough for someone to pass by and help him.

Meh, I figure if Glads can take him in a close fight as well. It's not that he doesn't have shit showings, it's that his higher end working together should be able to take out Herc. Even his durability when he's getting smashed is pretty high end. If he just throws him too, he can help out others.

Even if Beta and Glads can't win fast, Quasar is going to tear through Ares, which no other battle can make the same statement on either side. It makes it lopsided in an otherwise decently matched battle. Quasar is the trump card

Originally posted by abhilegend
I said IF thor wanted, he's done it before on Presence. Surfer has speedblitzed someone? News to me.

He was cut off from PC on skaar twice and drained in defenders v2 8. I haven't read that comic so can't tell.

To me this is like saying if Surfer can turn Thor into a frog if he wanted to. Pure hypothetical with no practical.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Nova can teleport, and I believe he's got some resistance to transmutation as well (not sure on that).

Ya, she's a pickle. I figure a ferocious Beta can get close enough to **** her up though.

No, it wouldn't be. I mean, Ronan's given fits to Surfer/Thor back in the day, so I figure he could hold Ikaris off long enough for someone to pass by and help him.

Meh, I figure if Glads can take him in a close fight as well. It's not that he doesn't have shit showings, it's that his higher end working together should be able to take out Herc. Even his durability when he's getting smashed is pretty high end. If he just throws him too, he can help out others.

Even if Beta and Glads can't win fast, Quasar is going to tear through Ares, which no other battle can make the same statement on either side. It makes it lopsided in an otherwise decently matched battle. Quasar is the trump card

yeah, quasar seems to be the difference--the gods simply can't win enough 1on1 matches due to a lack of versatility. i've looked at a few other ways to match up, but no god can really get a stomp minus transmutation. i suppose loki could bfr glads immediately and maybe ronan (can't recall if he's shown teleporting.) having to resort to bfr to try and get some wins if kinda lame though. overall, i really can't see any way the gods can win.

Team 1's top 3 are just as powerful as team 2's ace. Their next 2 are just a notch below. Team 2 is simply outmatched.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster

Ronan is ****ed, so there's that. But all other members of Annihilators fly.

Wait, are you saying Ronan can't fly?

http://i1.cdnds.net/10/32/550w_comics_the_thanos_imperative_4.jpg
http://comicattack.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/annihilators1.jpg

Team 1 takes this. Ronan, Gladiator, Quasar over Ares, Ikares, and Herc easily. All Nova, Surfer, and Bill has to due is stall their opponent long enough for their team to assist.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Wait, are you saying Ronan can't fly?

http://i1.cdnds.net/10/32/550w_comics_the_thanos_imperative_4.jpg
http://comicattack.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/annihilators1.jpg

Team 1 takes this. Ronan, Gladiator, Quasar over Ares, Ikares, and Herc easily. All Nova, Surfer, and Bill has to due is stall their opponent long enough for their team to assist.

Oh, I didn't even know that!

Oh well. I guess the gods get an ass-whoopin

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Silver Surfer vs Thor = Irrelevant. Neither will beat each other fast enough, so it's up to others to decide it

Gladiator vs Herc = Gladiator... pretty handily

Nova vs Loki = Decently long battle, so it's not the most relevant as well

Quasar vs Ares = Quasar smashes Ares

Beta Ray Bill vs Sersi = Beta fast enough to make a difference for his team

Ronan vs Ikaris = Pretty even fight

That leaves Glads, Beta, and Quasar to help out the others. Hell, even if just Quasar wins in the timeframe, it will lead to a win.

Kinda my thought process. There's very few matchup permutations where the gods win.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
He can do that. Doesn't really effect Surfer though.

No. I don't have access to them currently.
Meh, he was backed by Glad's powers. Which would increase his own. It was mostly to show that Surfer is vastly more powerful than Glads.

"Injured" Thor who wasn't said to be weakened, and hit Galactus really really hard.
It doesn't, but it makes him seem more powerful. The only "recent" power draining caused the guy to get killed, and involved him getting cut off due to discs and the planet.
Power draining in a Thor vs Surfer thread is about as relevant as Surfer's telepathy.

He doesn't have a dick

There goes the spamming blast attack.

Sorry, can't say anything without reading the comic or scans.

He's already more powerful than gladiator, what's new?

He was injured and if it wasn't stated that he was full power than its automatically assumed that he was weakened. Hitting galactus hard means what exactly? Thor can hit hard while injured?

That's just an excuse. His entire history is canon and one ambiguous showing (according to me as I haven't seen it ) doesn't makes surfer somehow better against energy draining than he was in past.

Thor has resisted better telepaths than surfer though.

Sif is a total whore then.
Originally posted by leonidas
i agree with thor/ss. and quasar (who has an even better energy absorbing record than thor imo) drained a star's worth of energy from ss and ss DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE. so yeah, you're right--energy drain=useless. absorbing blasts would work, but that just leads to an extended battle.

You talking about this

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/50070/949627-quasar_vs_surfer_super.jpg

Well lets see how does surfer do against energy draining in general

Against Motherboard

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-15.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-16.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-17.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-18.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-19.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-20.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-21.jpg

Against stranger

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3027-12.jpg

Against demonstar

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3039-12.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3039-13.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3039-14.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3039-15.jpg

Dynamo city

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3040-10.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3040-11.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3040-12.jpg

Captain reptyl

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3012-01.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3012-02-03.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3012-06.jpg

Some space pirates

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/05.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/06.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/07.jpg

Dampyre

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/StarMasters3017.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/StarMasters3019.jpg

Need more? These are just for starters.

Close fight, not sure who wins. On one hand, I think the Annihilators would probably win more individual match ups but Loki and Thor fighting side by side? I have a hard time picturing the Annihilators stopping them. Not sure even Surfer, Bill and Quasar together would beat that combination.

Also, the Annihilators is an atrocious name. Just horrible. Is that really the best DnA could come up with?

Originally posted by leonidas
she once gave thor gills without a problem

Issue number or scans? That's news to me.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
The only "recent" power draining caused the guy to get killed, and involved him getting cut off due to discs and the planet.


You were talking about this

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/th_CaptainUniverseSS1-17.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/th_CaptainUniverseSS1-18.jpg

Very impressive feat for surfer. But not very good use for surfer here.

Originally posted by Tar-Antado
To me this is like saying if Surfer can turn Thor into a frog if he wanted to. Pure hypothetical with no practical.
That was Loki with the power of twilight sword. Thor reverted back to his god form as soon as its power was cut off from loki. Surfer doesn't have that much power.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus Loki and Thor fighting side by side? I have a hard time picturing the Annihilators stopping them. .

This. Plus everyone is forgetting Sersi has transmuted people on the level of at least some of the Annihilators. If she handles even ONE OF THEM by transmuting them, she can then help whoever else needs help on a fight. Also Hercules is being underrated here. Yeah he can't fly, but that didn't help the sentry against him. And how can he or Area be BFR'ed when their team mates can help bring them back?

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
This. Plus everyone is forgetting Sersi has transmuted people on the level of at least some of the Annihilators. If she handles even ONE OF THEM by transmuting them, she can then help whoever else needs help on a fight. Also Hercules is being underrated here. Yeah he can't fly, but that didn't help the sentry against him. And how can he or Area be BFR'ed when their team mates can help bring them back?

How specifically does Loki and Thor on a team make them more powerful?

This isn't a comic fight, it's a forum fight. Herc's lacking of flight can and would hurt him. He could be easily ignored or BFR'd, essentially making them a man down. Their teammates will be fighting for their lives. Think they have time to go rescue their weak links while getting double-teamed by equal or superior opponents?

Ares remains the weakest link here. Herc might be the 2nd. Unless you can show that Sersi just mass transmutes a team with a few matter transmuters, gods lose.

I won't deny that Ares is the weakest guy here, but Loki, Thor, silver Surfer and Sersi are the most powerful, and 3 of the 4 are on one team Loki cam amp people to hundreds of times thier power. He can give Herc flight. He's turned thor into a frog (if he can do that to Thor, he can do it to bill). Sersi can drop gladiator in 5 seconds by making some radiation around him, or like I said transmute at least one of the team members. Hell Loki can turn clouds into dragons.... Their teams options are nearly unlimited. Loki can be a lot like dr strange... It's a question of what can't he do. I vaguely remember him trapping the hulk, silver surfer and some other heroes in forcefields ... Though I can't remember the circumstances... I'll need to look through some of my comics when I get home.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I won't deny that Ares is the weakest guy here, but Loki, Thor, silver Surfer and Sersi are the most powerful, and 3 of the 4 are on one team Loki cam amp people to hundreds of times thier power. He can give Herc flight. He's turned thor into a frog (if he can do that to Thor, he can do it to bill). Sersi can drop gladiator in 5 seconds by making some radiation around him, or like I said transmute at least one of the team members. Hell Loki can turn clouds into dragons.... Their teams options are nearly unlimited. Loki can be a lot like dr strange... It's a question of what can't he do. I vaguely remember him trapping the hulk, silver surfer and some other heroes in forcefields ... Though I can't remember the circumstances... I'll need to look through some of my comics when I get home.

Surfer, Bill, Thor, Quasar, and others all have more high showings than Loki. And he's not winning a straight-up fight with almost anyone on the team. He'd have to out-plan, and this is not a prep fight. Because I think you said Loki could take any two on their team, which is a gross overestimation of him. He loses to Thor all the time, who has at least 1-2 equals in this fight.

As mentioned, the Annihilators have transmuters too, and skilled ones. I don't deny there's advantageous matchups here and there for the gods, but you're assuming they would dictate the matchups. With the undoubtedly slower team, and one non-flyer, they would not.

That dragon feat was from the 70's, iirc, and was a pretty lame feat. Did you read that off a bio...I remember reading that off a bio.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
He's turned thor into a frog (if he can do that to Thor, he can do it to bill).

Actually, Loki tapped into the power of the Twilight Sword to transform Thor so it's not valid evidence for him transmuting Thor.

That being said, Loki has owned Bill and the rest of the Thor Corps easily. Outside of his fights with Thor (Which is close but he's on the losing side of), he has a great track record, better than most villains. His worst showing that I can think of is his death at the hands of the Void, which he planned and allowed (It was revealed he could have prevented it).

The magic angle is the gods only hope. Because the Annihilators have speed, raw power, no obvious BFR'able weak links, no easy outs (Ares), and arguably as much versatility.

Originally posted by Digi
Surfer, Bill, Thor, Quasar, and others all have more high showings than Loki. And he's not winning a straight-up fight with almost anyone on the team. He'd have to out-plan, and this is not a prep fight. Because I think you said Loki could take any two on their team, which is a gross overestimation of him. He loses to Thor all the time, who has at least 1-2 equals in this fight.

Seriously underestimating Loki there. His easily the favorite over either Bill or Quasar in a fight. I'd give him the nods over Surfer too personally.

Even in his battles against Thor, his had some good showings such as taking the advantage or even winning.

Originally posted by Digi
That dragon feat was from the 70's, iirc, and was a pretty lame feat. Did you read that off a bio...I remember reading that off a bio.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Sorcery/LokiTransmutation07JIM92.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Sorcery/LokiTransmutation14401.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Sorcery/LokiShapeshifting07aMarvelFanfare37.jpg

So what happens if Loki turns bill into a frog, while Thor occupies the Silver Surfer? Then Sersi turns Ronan into a tree? Or Loki captures the entire team in some forcefields and then let's one out at a time for the team to beat them down? Yeah I know I'm picking and choosing match ups, and even making some assumptions, but these are nonetheless all still viable scenarios. And while ares is a weak link, so is Ronan IMO compared to the heavy hitters on the gods team. And I don't know why you're downplaying Loki... He's fought skyfathers before and performed pretty darn good. And I didn't read that in a bio... Not that it should even matter if I did, where I read or saw it doesn't matter to the fact that it happened.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I vaguely remember him trapping the hulk, silver surfer and some other heroes in forcefields ... Though I can't remember the circumstances... I'll need to look through some of my comics when I get home.

Don't think I've ever seen this.

Although there was a one shot written by PAD where Loki had a nice showing of power. IIRC, a small portion of his might empowered a mortal to the point he was doing Loki's reality warping shtick (Turning into a mountain, shaping a castle out of thin air and so on) and created a stand-in Midgard Serpent/Hela. The Avenger line up wasn't impressive but Hulk was on it IIRC and he barely beat one of the monsters even with armor/weapons.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Don't think I've ever seen this.




I'm not sure I did either. I haven't dipped into my really old comics in a while. I'll get back to u tonight when I get home and double check.

Can you PM if you do find it?

Yeah I'll let u know eIther way.

If Herc is match with Ronan than he take it because ronan do't have to firepower to put herc down. Talking about skyfather Hercules have gone against skyfather and held his own. He fought death gods and elder of the universe and held his own ronan is not beating him

The only one on the Annihilators who CAN'T manipulate matter is Gladiator.
Surfer has some retarded feats under the belt that would make Sersi blush of envy.
Also, what happens if any member of the team enguage Sersi h2h?

Loki is a wildcard, or he would be, if that had mattered. The enormous lacks of versatility of some members of the "Gods" team seal the team.

Originally posted by abhilegend
There goes the spamming blast attack.

Sorry, can't say anything without reading the comic or scans.

He's already more powerful than gladiator, what's new?

He was injured and if it wasn't stated that he was full power than its automatically assumed that he was weakened. Hitting galactus hard means what exactly? Thor can hit hard while injured?

That's just an excuse. His entire history is canon and one ambiguous showing (according to me as I haven't seen it ) doesn't makes surfer somehow better against energy draining than he was in past.

Thor has resisted better telepaths than surfer though.

Sif is a total whore then.


You talking about this

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/50070/949627-quasar_vs_surfer_super.jpg

Well lets see how does surfer do against energy draining in general

Against Motherboard

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-15.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-16.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-17.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-18.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-19.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-20.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-21.jpg

Against stranger

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3027-12.jpg

Against demonstar

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3039-12.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3039-13.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3039-14.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3039-15.jpg

Dynamo city

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3040-10.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3040-11.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3040-12.jpg

Captain reptyl

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3012-01.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3012-02-03.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3012-06.jpg

Some space pirates

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/05.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/06.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/07.jpg

Dampyre

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/StarMasters3017.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/StarMasters3019.jpg

Need more? These are just for starters.

in general he does very well. so yeah, i'll need more.

those first scans show he was cut up. how you try to say he was being drained i have no idea. the whole scene is strange and he still retained more than enough power to win in the end.

stranger literally cut him off from his source of power and stranger is perhaps skyfather level.

did you read the demonstar scans? ss could have stopped him had he chosen to do so--but elected to be defeated rather than kill him. he easily stopped the first drain attempt.

as for the others--reptyl drained him after he was beaten. tyrant did the same thing to him. both kept him weak. dynamo city and dampyre? meh, low showings, but they mean little to me when the pre-iminent drainer in comics--quasar--can't do anything to a po'd ss, and when a ss who is also fighting for the lives of every hero in the world gives up HALF his power but STILL goes equally against someone like murrungo-mu.

no way in hell thor drains ss for a win. absorbing blasts is one thing. pulling a presence on him? no chance that would ever happen.

@rage--that's a good question. i'll have a look back and see if i can find it.

Originally posted by Digi
How specifically does Loki and Thor on a team make them more powerful?

This isn't a comic fight, it's a forum fight. Herc's lacking of flight can and would hurt him. He could be easily ignored or BFR'd, essentially making them a man down. Their teammates will be fighting for their lives. Think they have time to go rescue their weak links while getting double-teamed by equal or superior opponents?

Ares remains the weakest link here. Herc might be the 2nd. Unless you can show that Sersi just mass transmutes a team with a few matter transmuters, gods lose.

I really think Loki's being slept on here as far as his combat acumen goes.

Originally posted by abhilegend
There goes the spamming blast attack.

Sorry, can't say anything without reading the comic or scans.

He's already more powerful than gladiator, what's new?

He was injured and if it wasn't stated that he was full power than its automatically assumed that he was weakened. Hitting galactus hard means what exactly? Thor can hit hard while injured?

That's just an excuse. His entire history is canon and one ambiguous showing (according to me as I haven't seen it ) doesn't makes surfer somehow better against energy draining than he was in past.

Thor has resisted better telepaths than surfer though.

Sif is a total whore then.


Against stranger

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3027-12.jpg
Thor absorbing every blast if Surfer was zipping around spamming blasts would be impressive, no doubt about that

That would make him like 50 times more powerful at least... funny enough

He was injured without it showing him being hindered. And him hitting Galactus that hard was like his greatest feat in decades...

His entire history is canon, but throughout that he's been getting vastly better at using his powers, and also got a powerup since the last time he was drained. Plus most of the draining has been tech based, and I have hard time seeing Thor just reaching out and draining Surfer, especially when it's been shown to take time for Thor, and Surfer would have to be standing still for a couple seconds...

Like who?

She is

Here's what happened when Stranger tried that again:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/SurferandStranger.jpg

I know you don't like Surfer, but arguing that Thor drains him in a CIS on forum fight, because I said they stalemate is laughable to say the least

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I have hard time seeing Thor just reaching out and draining Surfer, especially when it's been shown to take time for Thor, and Surfer would have to be standing still for a couple seconds...

Thor's energy absorption depends on the situation but it has been shown to work instantaneously, even in battle.

While I think Thor could potentially drain Surfer (Mjolnir could draw in and absorb Surfer's cosmic bolts IIRC and I'd personally take Mjolnir over Surfer in that pissing contest any day) the likely hood is so unlikely at this point, it's not worth mentioning unless there are extenuating circumstances.

Originally posted by leonidas
in general he does very well. so yeah, i'll need more.

those first scans show he was cut up. how you try to say he was being drained i have no idea. the whole scene is strange and he still retained more than enough power to win in the end.

Really



He directly said he was losing energy and she has the command of the energy in that place. Can't be more simple to convey that he was being drained. And? He was just powerful enogh to send a little bolt and was on the verge of defeat where he himself said that he was too weak.



What? He was pulling the power cosmic as starlight from his body as surfer said himself. How is that relevant when all stranger did was to remove the light from surfer's surroundings?



No, he said that he would have to slay demonstar to stop her, that doesn't mean he would have stopped her draining. That was just the bands of negative energy shocking him, not draining him.


Who knows, an evolved and more powerful reptyl was easily stomped by surfer later. I don't believe reptyl could've beaten surfer in his weaker form, do you? Not comparable in the least.

A high showing which doesn't show that surfer can resist draining but that he has very vat reserves which on other ocassions have been drained rather quickly. Only because somehow murrungo-mu is a ***** who couldn't drain surfer because of his skin which has never stopped other from draining him. Eh, surfer was getting stomped untill he blasted that ship which housed murrongo's powers. I like how you skipped the pirates draining surfer.



Only if we go by one high feat and ignored all the other showings. As usual highballing surfer, we've seen Iron man draining and taking out surfer but Thor can't? This isn't a comic though.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Thor absorbing every blast if Surfer was zipping around spamming blasts would be impressive, no doubt about that

Yeah, it would be and yet he is quite capable of it.



Meh, let carver cry about it. Enigma-force doesn't always amp everyone to 50 times though and as it was shown in the comic, Enigma-force itself said that it doesn't work like that and after it was released, it said that it was a prisoner.



Not really as he was shown in the pain before that fight. And? Thor just most likely killed Demogorge who was depicted as an eternity level being. Fraction thor is notably more powerful than his depictions in previous two decades except with odin force.



Doesn't negates the draining aspect as T'challa and HE showed us. What, annihilation power up? That's one of the most ambigious powerup I ever saw in comic and it can be argued either way. Plus T'challa drained him after annihilation.

So pirate tech>mjolnir now. I don't see that too, but its a viable option for thor and I'm just suggesting that it can be done after seeing the bad record of surfer against draining.



Ask rage.sneer


Yeah, glad we agree upon that.



He dodged the sphere!! Wow, I'm so impressed with surfer's energy drainn resistance.



I like the surfer a lot, I've read almost every surfer appearance before I actively started to post here. I don't like the wanking though. I didn't say it because you said that they stalemate here, I said it because its a viable option for thor who has done it before. I give Thor 6/10 against surfer with or without draining, so no big deal. I'm not arguing that Thor would just drain surfer as soon as match starts, not at all. I'm just suggesting that thor can do it IF he wanted to do it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He directly said he was losing energy and she has the command of the energy in that place. Can't be more simple to convey that he was being drained. And? He was just powerful enogh to send a little bolt and was on the verge of defeat where he himself said that he was too weak.

so....where was she actively draining him again...? he was somehow, what? sliced up? his body wasn't even together? in the unilord saga that didn't really seem to matter. that whole scene is way too ambiguous to say she was draining him.



it's relevant because ss continually REPLENISHES his store of power FROM the ambient cosmic radiation all around him. he was surrounded and CUT OFF from his source of power. hence the reason why he was drained so easily--by a skyfather level being.



lol wut? if he retained enough power to kill her, and he easily blocked the drain the first time, the battle would have been over. and if someone is dead, it's hard for them to drain someone. and even after a prolonged draining effort, he still had power to kill. no reason on earth why ss couldn't simply block or break free of any active attempt thor made to drain him. or he could avoid the effort like he did stranger's, or it is at least equally his reserves would simply make the drain attempts meaningless.




how did ss find himself in that draining trap?



so you accuse someone of highballing, then......lowball? always two sides of that particular coin.



lol so he was being beaten at half power by a being who beat--easily--all of earth's heroes and was said to be a peer of galactus and you count that as a......win for you somehow?



oops. ss does seem to have some lower feats regrading tech related drain (though he's standing still when they do it and i'll check the context later) like the ironman feat. his high feats more than make up for the lower ones though, and he's never been drained while in motion, or moving at speeds forum battle would allow.



you're right--it's not a comic and therefore would never ever happen.

Originally posted by leonidas
so....where was she actively draining him again...? he was somehow, what? sliced up? his body wasn't even together? in the unilord saga that didn't really seem to matter. that whole scene is way too ambiguous to say she was draining him.

It was just an illusion of his mind as he sees it. He wasn't sliced up

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-15.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-21.jpg

Unilord saga isn't canon for 616 surfer.



Ah, ok. It was done by dynamo city as well though.





I'm not denying that he didn't have enough power to kill her but he didn't stop the draining just broke free from "suffocating grip of the bonds". Again my point wasn't that he doesn't have vast reserves and he can be drained fully by any other energy manipulator out there. No, I just wanted to show that he can be drained and weakened by it.





Bar-fight. No, seriously.





Yeah, I am saying that you are highballing by saying "No way in hell thor can drain surfer because quasar failed and all the other showings are just low showings which shouldn't be taken into account". What else is highballing in your view?





I didn't count that as a win for me. I was just saying how someone like murringo saying that surfer's skin is impenetrable to his power as the reasoning he can't drain surfer is just laughable since just in the same page he shattered surfer's coating with a casual blast. I never said that surfer standing up to murringu isn't impressive but it isn't a proof of his draining resistance. He was fully powered when he beat mirrungu by destroying his ship BTW.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_58.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_59.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_60.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_61.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_62.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_63.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_64.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_65.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_66.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_67.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_68.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_69.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_70.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_71.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_72.jpg





Yeah, he does have his low showings which is what I'm saying all along. There is no context here or in the Iron man scene in which tony drained surfer by an EMP and it resulted in a double ko IIRC. Surfer doesn't have many combat speed feats to his credit though and that's not how it works that if you've been drained while being stationary and never while being in motion which is wrong in this case as motherboard did just that, you are automatically immune to draining while in motion. You can say that surfer wouldn't give thor a chance to drain him.

Here is the scan with Iron man

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r172/TETRA001/norad35bd.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r172/TETRA001/norad48uz.jpg





Yeah, like I said if only we ignore all of surfer's low and average showings which are in dozen and just take one or two of his high showings as norm.

Surfer's draining resistance is fairly inconsistent. Never heard it brought up in the context of Thor v Surfer, but its food for thought I suppose.

Though some of his fans do have a tendency to hyperbolize his feats to the nth degree lol. If he punches someone "its the greatest punch Eva!" lol.

It's true, as far as energy draining/manipulation inferring with Surfer goes, he does have a pretty spotty record. It's caused him problems more than a few times over the years.

That being said, I haven't been keeping up with the discussion so I can't speak to the validity of any argument. Except Thor draining Surfer, I don't find that to be a likely possibility based on the way Thor's approached their battles in the past. Thor's the favorite though.

The two are having a battle in the Thor annual in a few months and it's being written by a huge Surfer fan, perhaps after all this time, he'll finally be shown to have the edge in battle. Although I'll be annoyed if that does turn out to be the case.

Originally posted by dmills
Surfer's draining resistance is fairly inconsistent. Never heard it brought up in the context of Thor v Surfer, but its food for thought I suppose.

Though some of his fans do have a tendency to hyperbolize his feats to the nth degree lol. If he punches someone "its the greatest punch Eva!" lol.
Yeah, I'm not arguing that thor would even use draining on surfer, just that IF thor uses draining surfer is in trouble.

Surfer is the most highballed character on any forum. Anybody arguing that he has low or average showings is automatically a hater just as bieb labeled me.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, I'm not arguing that thor would even use draining on surfer, just that IF thor uses draining surfer is in trouble.

Surfer is the most highballed character on any forum. Anybody arguing that he has low or average showings is automatically a hater just as bieb labeled me. Well you are a hater uhuh

Originally posted by Newjak
Well you are a hater uhuh





osheet









Who cares?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's true, as far as energy draining/manipulation inferring with Surfer goes, he does have a pretty spotty record. It's caused him problems more than a few times over the years.

That being said, I haven't been keeping up with the discussion so I can't speak to the validity of any argument. Except Thor draining Surfer, I don't find that to be a likely possibility based on the way Thor's approached their battles in the past. Thor's the favorite though.

The two are having a battle in the Thor annual in a few months and it's being written by a huge Surfer fan, perhaps after all this time, he'll finally be shown to have the edge in battle. Although I'll be annoyed if that does turn out to be the case.

Would it be that shocking?

Recently, they were showed as equals, in the past, Thor got more victory than lost against Surfer, so, if he falls one time, I don't think it be big deal at all

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, I'm not arguing that thor would even use draining on surfer, just that IF thor uses draining surfer is in trouble.

Surfer is the most highballed character on any forum. Anybody arguing that he has low or average showings is automatically a hater just as bieb labeled me.

High balled, but you have to admit that his feats can back him too, no?

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
High balled, but you have to admit that his feats can back him too, no?
Yeah, totally. Surfer is the highest of high heralds out there for a reason BUT he has his limits, vulnerabilities and low showings like everyone else. To presume that only the high feats matter here is just foolish.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, totally. Surfer is the highest of high heralds out there for a reason BUT he has his limits, vulnerabilities and low showings like everyone else. To presume that only the high feats matter here is just foolish.

But arguing with his low showing for his durability is low-balling him.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
But arguing with his low showing for his durability is low-balling him.
By his low showing I mean getting two shotted by a weakened BRB, getting koed twice by meteors like stuff not getting koed by a brick, laser, rock trolls against whom BLACK KNIGHT looked better. These type of showings balance out crazy high end feats. I'm not saying that on average meteors ko surfer but it happened and its not ridiculous enough to declare PIS. Do you get what I'm saying here?

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was just an illusion of his mind as he sees it. He wasn't sliced up

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-15.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-21.jpg

so it was all in his mind? then how do you know he was actually being drained? he also thought he was sliced up. i should just go back and read the stupid thing myself.....



huh? where'd you hear that? news to me. if that's true, that's.......utterly ridiculous.



well, of course--it's pretty obvious draining has a chance to work on him to some degree. you ARE low-balling him though. badly. and some of your examples are just wrong, or are missing context. by showing those types of examples, you take the stance--by default--that anyone can drain ss and take him out. that in turn leads to replies that you deam high-balling. why is him ignoring quasar without notice a high-balled feat, but some space pirate draining him unconscious NOT low-balling?



which of course was my point--he was already beaten (as stupidly as he was) when he was trapped. the draining kept him weak. exactly the way tyrant did.



as i said--your reply implied a stance that you now seem to be backing away from. you seemed to be saying that if thor tried to drain him ss would be finished. i mentioned an instance where it proves that is not true--at all. to support your side you showed some instances that i find faulty, missing context, or just flat out wrong. there are a couple that DO support the idea that ss can be affected by an energy drain though--by beings who are significantly below ss's own level--yet you DON'T see that as low-balling. i find that strange.



don't really see the relevance of any of that. the point was that this was another attempt to support the idea that drain attempt=/=insta-loss for ss. by showing some random space pirate draining him, your implied stance (whether you like it or not) is that ANYONE can beat him by draining, and showing and bringing up instances to the contrary is high-balling. i think that stance is ridiculous.



he doesn't need combat speed at all. he has dozens of dodging feats. and that is exactly what i was saying.



i certainly didn't see a dozen instances. i saw a couple. even the ones i did see would never be applicable in a forum setting.

can draining him have an affect? of course. would it be indefensible? not at all imo. he would have dozens of options for dealing with it. could it simply be avoided? absolutely, imo. to say that if thor tried it that ss would be finished is pretty ridiculous in, again, mo.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer is the highest of high heralds out there

baka

Originally posted by abhilegend
osheet









Who cares? You do

That brings up another discussion for another thread. I'd like to see a comparative analysis of their fights with foes they have in common.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, it would be and yet he is quite capable of it. If we're stretching the limits of what's likely to happen? No



Originally posted by abhilegend
Meh, let carver cry about it. Enigma-force doesn't always amp everyone to 50 times though and as it was shown in the comic, Enigma-force itself said that it doesn't work like that and after it was released, it said that it was a prisoner.
Even if, it still would have put him at twice as powerful.

He was draining off a bunch of beings, Glads, and had the Enigma force which we saw was a sizable amount above Gladiator in the series.


Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really as he was shown in the pain before that fight. And? Thor just most likely killed Demogorge who was depicted as an eternity level being. Fraction thor is notably more powerful than his depictions in previous two decades except with odin force. Was he shown to be hindered anywhere?

Eternity level... and he killed him by smashing into his exposed heart.

Fraction Thor is depicted above Odin Force Thor IMO. Not saying he'd be more powerful, but Fraction is writing him at a very high level. Which makes it all the more impressive for Surfer to stand against him "injury" or not.



Originally posted by abhilegend
Doesn't negates the draining aspect as T'challa and HE showed us. What, annihilation power up? That's one of the most ambigious powerup I ever saw in comic and it can be argued either way. Plus T'challa drained him after annihilation. Oh God, I forgot about Black Panther. Judging by that series BP didn't even need to drain him.
Plus I believe he completely drained Surfer from absorbing a blast, didn't he? That series was tripe, but if you want to count it... I mean, he is one of your favorite characters.

...

The HE thing seemed like de-evolution since it literally melted off his skin which HE seemed to reclaim. And that's sort of his thing.

Galactus said on panel he was going to give him renewed will, new powers, and take away the remorse. Surfer cut him off at the remorse part but never said anything about power.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/annihilationsilversurfer03page18aj1.jpg

Then there's him actually taking attacks from Thor (when his first appearance was weaker than Thor with Loki's added powers), creating black holes, smashing Ravenous right after, and whatnot. If he wasn't powered up, he certainly gained a lot of "will".

Originally posted by abhilegend
So pirate tech>mjolnir now. I don't see that too, but its a viable option for thor and I'm just suggesting that it can be done after seeing the bad record of surfer against draining. Yes. It certainly works faster anyway.

It's about as viable as Surfer creating black holes, blitzing, and using telepathy. Maybe if something urged him to use this, but Thor certainly wouldn't.
I don't have as much a problem with Surfer having shitty feats vs draining as I do at the notion of Thor actually draining him.



Originally posted by abhilegend
Ask rage.sneer


Yeah, glad we agree upon that. No.

Yes, it appeases me too.



Originally posted by abhilegend
He dodged the sphere!! Wow, I'm so impressed with surfer's energy drainn resistance. It shows he was keen on it.

Plus, with how slow Thor's draining has shown to work, Surfer moves out of the way or blocks it with his board.

"I feel my power slowly slipping away, I better stand still"



Originally posted by abhilegend
I like the surfer a lot, I've read almost every surfer appearance before I actively started to post here. I don't like the wanking though. I didn't say it because you said that they stalemate here, I said it because its a viable option for thor who has done it before. I give Thor 6/10 against surfer with or without draining, so no big deal. I'm not arguing that Thor would just drain surfer as soon as match starts, not at all. I'm just suggesting that thor can do it IF he wanted to do it. You don't like the wanking so you lowball him?
You argue against him in many threads, post low feats whenever possible, and never give him any props at all. If you liked Surfer, you'd probably show it, because your persona certainly doesn't say "I like Surfer".
Plus I mean, Thor power draining Surfer being brought up in itself is such an out of left field tactic.

If Thor wanted to, he could beat pretty much any character, Superman included. Thor could simply BFR Hulk without an attack in comics. He's got many ways to beat characters... it doesn't mean he's going to use them.
Basically what you're bringing up is something I bet you have a problem with Surfer doing in threads. And that's something he rarely does. Black holes, blitzing, telepathy, transmutation, etc.

Either way, Surfer/Thor is not ending before any of the other battles in this thread.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
If we're stretching the limits of what's likely to happen? No




Even if, it still would have put him at twice as powerful.

He was draining off a bunch of beings, Glads, and had the Enigma force which we saw was a sizable amount above Gladiator in the series.


Was he shown to be hindered anywhere?

Eternity level... and he killed him by smashing into his exposed heart.

Fraction Thor is depicted above Odin Force Thor IMO. Not saying he'd be more powerful, but Fraction is writing him at a very high level. Which makes it all the more impressive for Surfer to stand against him "injury" or not.



Oh God, I forgot about Black Panther. Judging by that series BP didn't even need to drain him.
Plus I believe he completely drained Surfer from absorbing a blast, didn't he? That series was tripe, but if you want to count it... I mean, he is one of your favorite characters.

...

The HE thing seemed like de-evolution since it literally melted off his skin which HE seemed to reclaim. And that's sort of his thing.

Galactus said on panel he was going to give him renewed will, new powers, and take away the remorse. Surfer cut him off at the remorse part but never said anything about power.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/annihilationsilversurfer03page18aj1.jpg

Then there's him actually taking attacks from Thor (when his first appearance was weaker than Thor with Loki's added powers), creating black holes, smashing Ravenous right after, and whatnot. If he wasn't powered up, he certainly gained a lot of "will".

Yes. It certainly works faster anyway.

It's about as viable as Surfer creating black holes, blitzing, and using telepathy. Maybe if something urged him to use this, but Thor certainly wouldn't.
I don't have as much a problem with Surfer having shitty feats vs draining as I do at the notion of Thor actually draining him.



No.

Yes, it appeases me too.



It shows he was keen on it.

Plus, with how slow Thor's draining has shown to work, Surfer moves out of the way or blocks it with his board.

"I feel my power slowly slipping away, I better stand still"



You don't like the wanking so you lowball him?
You argue against him in many threads, post low feats whenever possible, and never give him any props at all. If you liked Surfer, you'd probably show it, because your persona certainly doesn't say "I like Surfer".
Plus I mean, Thor power draining Surfer being brought up in itself is such an out of left field tactic.

If Thor wanted to, he could beat pretty much any character, Superman included. Thor could simply BFR Hulk without an attack in comics. He's got many ways to beat characters... it doesn't mean he's going to use them.
Basically what you're bringing up is something I bet you have a problem with Surfer doing in threads. And that's something he rarely does. Black holes, blitzing, telepathy, transmutation, etc.

Either way, Surfer/Thor is not ending before any of the other battles in this thread.

pretty much. you heard the unilord saga was officially considered non-canon somewhere? it was a convoluted mess, i know that, and i think there was some confusion with a spiderman book or something (can't recall all the details) but far as i know, it is still canon by marvel's standards at least, and i believe the forums's.

Originally posted by leonidas
pretty much. you heard the unilord saga was officially considered non-canon somewhere? it was a convoluted mess, i know that, and i think there was some confusion with a spiderman book or something (can't recall all the details) but far as i know, it is still canon by marvel's standards at least, and i believe the forums's. Rather than try to explain it, I'll let Rols say it

Originally posted by Ambient
I have to disagree on the continuity part Darth, if you flip through
SS #121, we see Unilord Surfer emerged through the cosmic swell and then hit/merged to 616 Surfer.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa312/RRoldz/Surfer/th_SS_v3_121_17a.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa312/RRoldz/Surfer/th_SS_v3_121_17b.jpg

Here's another look..

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa312/RRoldz/Surfer/th_SS_v3_122_03a.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa312/RRoldz/Surfer/th_SS_v3_122_03b.jpg

A temporal merging if you call it, dough the Unilord story is a else world/What if arc it still affected 616 Surfer through the merging.. My 2 cents.. Originally posted by Ambient
Spiderman team up must have happened before SS #121 - 122, Surfer had reminiscences about the encounter with outrider While SS # 122 had him remember none of it..

Here let me exp..

Issue 111..

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa312/RRoldz/Surfer/th_SS_v3_111_09a.jpg

After Surfer fallowed/traced 1-1-1 code believing it was a distressed signal, the code was then downloaded to him..

The code contains the navigational chart/history of the Unilord/Blockbodies.

Quite clear he should fully remembers knows about the code..

Issue 122..

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa312/RRoldz/Surfer/th_SS_v3_122_03b.jpg

After the merge, Surfer remembers none of the code/distress signal, he even said " i should but it hurts to even try." Therefore the Spiderman team up happened before the merging (SS#121) as he had recollection of the outlander, so i guess during that time the unilord saga was not in continuity but as soon as the merging happened it became canon.. My 2 cents..

Also, while looking for this, I found a couple decent speed feats... just to throw out there. Not saying he'd do it since Thor's not draining him.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Fights some cruisers. Displays speed, some neat powers, and intangibility.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/sste-041.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/sste-042.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/sste-043.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/sste-044.jpg

Shows some good speed against guards who had captured pretty much every hero on Earth.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/sste-057.jpg
Who they captured:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/sste-076.jpg

Wipes the floor with the Fantastic Four. Again, shows good speed.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/FF155_05.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/FF155_08.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/FF155_09.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/FF155_12.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/FF155_13.jpg

cool. i didn't think it was official in any way. just confusing.

Annihilators anihilate.
Good discussion. Looking foward to that showdown rage mentioned.
Carry on.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The two are having a battle in the Thor annual in a few months and it's being written by a huge Surfer fan, perhaps after all this time, he'll finally be shown to have the edge in battle. Although I'll be annoyed if that does turn out to be the case. A stalemate would suffice for me.

What I'm more interested is about the Galactus/Oblivion thing. And if there's another big character involved.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
A stalemate would suffice for me.

What I'm more interested is about the Galactus/Oblivion thing. And if there's another big character involved.

A couple of DeMatteis creations: The Other and Scrier. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes Galactus job to one or both of these.

Originally posted by Tar-Antado
A couple of DeMatteis creations: The Other and Scrier. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes Galactus job to one or both of these. You have single handedly made me not look forward to that annual

Originally posted by leonidas
so it was all in his mind? then how do you know he was actually being drained? he also thought he was sliced up. i should just go back and read the stupid thing myself.....

Of course and when you totally understand it, call me.





Here you go

Originally posted by darthgoober
So I've been going through some old Surfer stuff and stumbled across a piece of bad news for Surfer fans... the Unilord Saga's not actually canon to 616 Surfer . Sorry to everyone about promoting it as canon this whole time, the story's kinda complicated and I always ended up a little confused when I tried reading it. Anyway since Surfer's fans will want to know my reasoning behind now saying that it's not canon I'll explain...


This is from Silver Surfer vol. 3 #112 and it shows Surfer successfully riding the Cosmic Swell...
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3112p07.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3112p08.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3112p09.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3112p10.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3112p11.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3112p12.jpg

And for the rest of issue #112 and through #113 we see a story taking place that features Surfer. BUT then at the beginning of issue #114 this is what we see...
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3114p02.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3114p03.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3114p04.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3114p05.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3114p06.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3114p07.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3114p08.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/SilverSurferv3114p09.jpg

... So everything we see Surfer do in that other universe is actually a 'What if' contained in Surfer's series. Further conformation that it's not actually canon can be found in Spiderman Team Up #2 when he talks about the difficulty of surfer the Cosmic Rift and how he was unable to save Outrider Seven's people...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Spider-ManTeam-Up2p12.jpg


So that's my bad on promoting the arc .





Now we're talking.

Not at all when you compare what mjolnir has done to what has troubled surfer in the past. I might've been a "little" overzealous in this scenario but still mjolnir can drain him based on the poor record against draining.

Which was out of context? I gave the whole fight scenes page by page leaving nothing out. You think I'm taking the stance that anyone can drain surfer by showing these examples when I have said many times in this thread alone that I don't think so.

So, we ignore all other times when he's been drained and been weakened by it just on the basis of a high end feat against quasar? I'm not saying that Thor can just drain him as quickly as those pirates did or anywhere close to as fast. Just that there are a lot more bad showings for surfer against draining than he's good showings against it.





He wasn't beaten though, he beat all the other guys in that bar and then reptyl confronted him and the issue ended after that. The next we see surfer is that he is conscious and drained in the next issue. Considering in SS 64 surfer stomped a more powerful and evolved reptyl, its unlikely that reptyl beat him in direct confrontation.




Not at all.
I'm still saying that IF thor tried draining surfer.

I provided more than one instance where it worked perfectly fine.

You still didn't tell me where I left context in my scans. Flat out wrong?

What? Surfer has had problems with people far less than his supposed level in forums throughout his history of publication. Next you would demand that anytime someone affects somebody above his own weight class, its low balling. I find it rather amusing like I said any mention of surfer's low or average showings is low balling, he only has high level feats.





The drainage never happened in the first place because murringu mo couldn't penetrate surfer's skin to siphon his power which strangely enough he does in the same page with a casual blast.

If you follow what I said throughout this thread then you would know that isn't what I'm saying here. Pirates draining surfer isn't the only case it happened either and you would've a case for me lowballing if I had only one instance to fall back to support my theory, which isn't the case here. You think surfer shrugging off quasar's draining is the norm while numerous instances contradict it, suit yourself.

I've seen more ridiculous stances. Just now on herochat, a fellow surfer fan of yours darthgoober is proclaiming that surfer can manipulate IMP magic.





What? You think that energy draining is some type of energy beam attack which can be dodged? I'm surprised to know that.





I left many instances, like sonic shark, dr doom, black panther, High evolutionary etc. I can bring them if you like to see. By those people, I agree but against mjolnir most certainly possible.



Now we're making some kind of progress seeing you claimed that "no way in hell thor can drain surfer".

Like? I am curious to see all those options.

I haven't seen somebody avoiding energy draining by moving away or dodging energy draining ray. Cool story bro, that's what we're debating here, aren't we?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
If we're stretching the limits of what's likely to happen? No

Eh, he wouldn't do that while CIS on but it is certainly possible.






Like I said, who really cares besides carter.



Cool story bro, we can reach to the conclusion that he couldn't contain surfer's power AND all the power he had absorbed earlier. Obviously surfer came off looking many times powerful than gladiator.




Your point? Was he shown to be in the pain before and after the fight?



You are talking about the guy who wrote "Odin headbutt".



Again, that's cool with me. All I am saying is that Thor was injured and most likely wasn't at 100% power. Yeah, that was quite impressive for surfer, I'm not denying that.




One UBER PIS scene doesn't invalidates everything in that series. BP was using a machine that drained surfer in the past and it drained him there too. What's wrong with that scene if the exact same thing has happened before.

Yeah, if only we go to "DURRRRR, armbarrrr" route and declare everything PIS in that series. I mean batman survived punches from a bloodlusted superman in sacrifice which is even bigger PIS than armbar situation, I should call his fight with wonder woman PIS. You are amazing bieb.


Yeah, he is. Otherwise I wouldn've read almost every appearance of him.



Or maybe its just visual confirmation that he was depowered. His glaze has been melted off of him many times IIRC, he was once knocked out by a clay clone of his created by puppet master and it was melted off. Meh, it can be argued that he was just reclaiming the power or PAK thinks that surfer's glaze is dependent on power. HE devolving surfer to norrin radd doesn't makes any sense when you consider that its him all along under that galactic glaze.




http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/annihilationsilversurfer03page18aj1.jpg

Like I said, it could be argued both ways. Galactus says that he can heal surfer, give surfer new powers alongside removing his remorse and surfer declines. You can argue that he didn't decline the offer of new powers but galactus' offer to heal surfer makes me doubt it. Galactus restoring surfer's powers is also supported by this.

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/719/noupgrade3mb3.jpg



Nothing that indicates an increase of power seeing that at that time Thor was the most powerful guy on the block and seeing surfer's stock rising in last two decades. I mean thor was able to throw both hulk and namor trying to restrain him around the same time too. Yeah, that's totally a power up, creating black holes and beating a guy who was later beat up by ronan IIRC. IOW he is getting more respect from writers concerning his power levels.



Yeah, rigggggght. Tell that to null bomb and all the energies mjolnir has absorbed.



I am not saying that thor is going to draining at all, I'm just arguing that IF thor uses it surfer is in trouble.

I know that feeling.




Your loss.


What about thor when his supposed true love leaves him for a dickless horse.





Eh, I haven't seen mjolnir being unable to absorb energy from a source which is moving. Have you? Does that somehow negates power drainage, I didn't know that mjolnir had a range where it can absorb energy.





I don't lowball him, I just try to balance the highballing going on in a thread as usual for surfer. I know what he is capable of and what he isn't. Unfortunately most thread involving surfer is either superman/surfer or thor/surfer where I like both more than surfer, so I have to defend them against surfer. Actually I give him props whenever possible, I have given him wins over almost every other herald level guy save a split to thor. I give him 6.5/10 against superman, 7/10 against hal and so on. Even in this thread I give him split against thor. If by "liking him" you mean saying that surfer takes 8/10 against superman, 7/10 against thor and speedblitzes every other guy, then sorry bieb. I'm not a fanboy of surfer.


Why, because no one tried it before?


Phail bieb, phail.

I don't care about hulk and I'm saying non-stop that it isn't likely that Thor would use this tactic at all. Doesn't mean he can't do it and that's what I'm saying here.


Not at all, nice try though.


I agree.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Rather than try to explain it, I'll let Rols say it



Also, while looking for this, I found a couple decent speed feats... just to throw out there. Not saying he'd do it since Thor's not draining him.
Doesn't makes it canon for 616 surfer even then, I mean heroes reborn hulk and 616 hulk merged into one, does that mean heroes reborn is canon for 616 hulk?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course and when you totally understand it, call me.

so you admit to not even fully understanding the scene yet you felt like showing it anyway, even though the whole thing could have been in his head. and you wonder why i have a problem with it?



you need to be a lot more specific--he has had some issues with tech-related draining. it makes sense to me though, at least in many of the cases. a lot of the time the tech is specifically created to drain power cosmic--reed, doom, panther. even the collection agency was supplied with tech from the elder COLLECTOR (and ss was able to OVERLOAD those weapons, btw, some context that was left out....) with prep, tech can be designed to handle him. has he fallen to other tech drains? yes. but what you're talking about is NOT a tech drain. why are they different? beats me. but his history against non-tech drains is a lot better for.....whatever reason.

So, we ignore all other times when he's been drained and been weakened by it just on the basis of a high end feat against quasar? I'm not saying that Thor can just drain him as quickly as those pirates did or anywhere close to as fast. Just that there are a lot more bad showings for surfer against draining than he's good showings against it.

the quasar feat is the most analogous to what you're saying thor would do.



but......you don't know what happened to get him there......



not really, at least nothing truly relevant.



of course he's had trouble with people below him. so has superman. and? that's why pis is eliminated in the forum.



the effects of a drain VARY on ss. you seem to want to make a blanket 'average' statement. that is wrong and the way you present it and the conclusions you're looking to have drawn from people are based on low-balling. anytime BOTH sides are not presented or raised, it IS low-balling. maybe you didn't actually know that....



that is ridiculous.



it's not?



the shark was teh ghey.



like moving at superspeed. like breaking contact like presence couldn't. like blasting thor before he becomes to weak. like ignoring the effects like he did against quasar. hell, it would be funny as sh!t to see him turn the hammer back to the stick! unlikely? sure. probably about the same odds as thor draining him.



so it should be easy to show thor drain something moving or actively avoiding it.

show some non-tech related stuff draining him and you will have a stronger case.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Doesn't makes it canon for 616 surfer even then, I mean heroes reborn hulk and 616 hulk merged into one, does that mean heroes reborn is canon for 616 hulk?

doesn't not. forum still sees the unilord saga as canon.

Originally posted by leonidas
so you admit to not even fully understanding the scene yet you felt like showing it anyway, even though the whole thing could have been in his head. and you wonder why i have a problem with it?

I was just joking man, of course I understand what was going on.





Really, I thought I was specific about the tech and otherwise draining. I didn't know that that the guy here was an agent of collection agency, so sorry about that.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3062-13.jpg

Only because the devices could only siphon power cosmic in increments and surfer used everything he has got in a single attack.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_08.jpg

I haven't seen a better energy absorber under skyfather level than mjolnir, have you? He's been drained by non-technical means too but I admit his record against non-tech drains is much better. Mjolnir however isn't a normal energy absorption tool though, so its moot anyway.




And? One high end feat doesn't dictates what would happen here, maybe on CBR but here we take averages in consideration and sadly surfer's average falls short to what mjolnir is capable of.





I know that reptyl couldn't have beaten him straight up as shown later. You know how did surfer got captured without energy drainage which is the most likely possibility considering surfer and nova both were conscious when the drainage was shown.




Why not?





Of course, everytime someone troubles guys above him in weight class its PIS. Sorry my friend, that's not how things work outside CBR. They are called low showings.





I agree that it varies. I don't want to reach a blanket "average" statement though. I just look on the whole picture not some very low or very high showings. I think I now what is lowballing having dealt with carver myself in the past.




That's darthgoober. I can provide links if you want.





I've seen it as a area type attack like a magnet attracting iron fillings.




Totally agree.




I haven't seen anything that says it would work.
I didn't see him having to touch presence to draw his power
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir193-EnergyAbsorption.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir50-EnergyAbsorptionSS04.jpg

Sorry bro, thor isn't a pussy like quasar . Not happening.

While thor is holding mjolnir? Almost impossible.




Yeah, I think that mjolnir has absorbed energies while moving on its own accord.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir84-EnergyAbsorption223.jpg



Dampyre

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/StarMasters3017.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/StarMasters3019.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas
doesn't not. forum still sees the unilord saga as canon.

Not really, if its non canon then it maters little what forum thinks. Its unusable for 616 surfer.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I was just joking man, of course I understand what was going on.

not really. the whole thing COULD have been in ss's mind.



'everything he's got'. maybe some hyperbole. but again, it shows he's NOT defenseless against draining, and that he can figure out ways (see stranger) to avoid or defeat it.



yes, quasar.



nor does a low end feat dictate what would happen. has it happened that ss has been taken down by tech-related drains? yes. is it true many such devices were made with him in mind during prep situations? yes. can thor absorb his bolts? yes. can he forcibly drain the pc from ss? no chance that would happen imo--or if it did, ss would be able to combat the effect in the ways i mentioned. and if thor was using the hammer to drain him, i doubt he could ALSO absorb a random blast shot at the ground or thor himself. you're seeming to go all 'forum thor' all of a sudden and want me to think the hammer is some broad spectrum vacuum. it's most certainly not.....



i'm not even saying the thought isn't logical. just that it wasn't shown that draining is what beat him.



lol everyone will remember you said that in the next superman discussion......

and of course it's not ALWAYS pis. you keep wanting to make these all-encompassing statements. but when ss has problems with lower guys, it's like when supes does--he's a pacifist and rarely (almost never) uses the full range of his powers.



you can't find an 'average' showing doing what you did. both sides should be looked at and mentioned. otherwise you come across (as you did) as something WORSE than a fanboy--you come across as an ANTI-FANBOY.



this forum is MORE than enough for me, thanks though.



where? and what's the area you're talking about? forcibly draining someone like ss is nothing i've ever seen thor do. ss is an uber energy wielder himself, and an uber absorber. i see no reason to think he couldn't cut off his energy flow, teleport, will contact to be broken, blast randomly, fly straight at thor and hit him physically, etc...... if ss willingly stood there, defenseless, and said, 'drain me!', maybe thor could do so (though quasar couldn't), but a ss who is fighting back?? i MIGHT be able to see thor ATTEMPTING it 1/10 fights. but i don't see it being overly effective in 1/100 fights.



that's when he drained wrecker, isn't it? didn't he call out the asgardian energy there, or am i confusing the scene? he drew the energy from presence BECAUSE the presence blasted him. thor just KEPT pulling his energy and didn't allow presence to break contact. i don't see that working on a ss who is far more powerful and skilled.



i agree--but not much more far-fetched than thor holding his hammer and vacuuming some massive area in some sort of 'energy drain zone.'



sure, contact was made. be like thor sticking the hammer in a flame and absorbing it. that's not what i was saying. unless you now think thor will send the hammer on its own to chase and touch ss to absorb his power.




yep, that's one....... he also failed miserably when he tried to absorb quasar's energy....



lol

true, except YOU don't get to decide what's canon. there is no stance from marvel that indicates it, and the forum has no rule against it, so, for the purposes of any debate, the unilord saga is absolutely viable. darthgoober likes ss and knows him, that doesn't mean he dictates what is and isn't canon for the ss. though i'm sure he'd love hearing that you seem to be giving him that power.

oh, while we're on the topic of the aoe vacuum drain power--could thor do the same to superman? seems like it would be a lot easier to do to kal since he doesn't even have ss's energy control..... just wondering.

Annihilators.

Originally posted by leonidas
oh, while we're on the topic of the aoe vacuum drain power--could thor do the same to superman? seems like it would be a lot easier to do to kal since he doesn't even have ss's energy control..... just wondering.

I've brought it up in the past, no one wants to touch it though.

Well, that's annoying. I just wrote a large response, and it got erased because I searched "Katy Pervy" in google and it used this tab to search it... and I was completely done in like three more sentences.

Might as well take the time to revisit some things, while trying to remember what I wrote.

Time to end this charade.

---

Also, the response I posted from Rols/Ambient was actually in response to Darthgoober... which Abi should have known seeing as he found Darth's response on the same page. Rols seems to have convinced Darth.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Eh, he wouldn't do that while CIS on but it is certainly possible.
That's my whole point.

With CIS on, that shit doesn't happen. But since you seem to be a big fan of arguing CIS off for your character, I don't see why I can't play the same game.

If Thor is going into battles with power draining in his back pocket against Surfer of all people, then why wouldn't Surfer be zipping around spamming blasts... and keep in mind, that's something Surfer actually does in comics. I see you have a problem with many tactics being brought up against you, yet keep on going "well if Thor drains him..."
Do you not see the hypocrisy involved in your arguments?

Hell, a little later you say that Surfer using exotic tactics isn't the same, yet keep on the "Thor draining" path. You're not a fan of your own logic being used against you? You're not opposed to acting the same way as many Surfer fans I bet make you seeth with rage?

Keep in mind, I'm only bringing this shit up to combat your use of it. And your use of it was against me just saying they stalemate... oh wait, you're not actually saying he'll do it, but you also are...

But more on that later.






Originally posted by abhilegend
Like I said, who really cares besides carter. I figured you would since he's one of your "favorite characters", and you're not the biggest fan of Gladiator (boy was I wrong). But you're stuck in argument mode, when all that's needed is a discussion.




Originally posted by abhilegend
Cool story bro, we can reach to the conclusion that he couldn't contain surfer's power AND all the power he had absorbed earlier. Obviously surfer came off looking many times powerful than gladiator. But the overloading wasn't the only thing shown to look bad against Glads.
That being had Gladiator's power, and the Enigma Force (along with many others). The Enigma Force earlier in the series allowed Sue to beat the shit out of Gladiator, which on it's own would put it above Glads. Couple that with Gladiator's actual powers, and Surfer almost toying with said being... well, Surfer seems quite a ways above Glads.

Also, I believe that being had those powers before he had the Enigma Force (not sure on that), so if true, and if the Enigma Force increases his power IN ANY WAY, then we should be able to assume that it raised his limits to a considerable degree.
Plus there's the fact that he fought Surfer in an extended battle and still tried to absorb his powers. Which if he were anywhere close to his limits, this would be a very very stupid character.

Surfer wasn't the straw that broke the camel's back, he was the elephant that broke the camel's back... IMO at least.

I know you disagree, but I thought you'd like that since you know, "favorite character", and "Superman knockoff" and all... but what do I know?

Not saying the absorbing thing is a fact, but him fighting the being with all those powers was however.





Originally posted by abhilegend
Your point? Was he shown to be in the pain before and after the fight? My point spoke for itself. Was he shown hindered before the fight?

I understand he was in pain, but that pain wasn't shown once to hinder him in battle. Especially when you look in all things involving Thor feats. He never stopped mid battle and went "ahh, my ****ing side", or "I would find this easier had I not been in such pain", and many such things along those lines. Thor never attributed the pain to a lack of being able to accomplish anything. He was never stated he be weakened, or any of the like. He was just stated to be hurt. Does that mean his battle prowess was down, or that he was in pain?

There's also the adrenaline excuse but I'm not sure that flies in the comic world.




Originally posted by abhilegend
You are talking about the guy who wrote "Odin headbutt". That's irrelevant to what happened in the Demogorge scene. He didn't take Demogorge head on, he attacked his heart while he was inside of him. Yes he killed a powerful being, but he did it by attacking it's weakpoint while it had no way to defend itself. Does that make it a be all end all feat? No.
I think we've already had this discussion about Sun Eaters and PC characters. Thor would have never been able to accomplish this from outside of Demogorge, or away from his ****ing heart. You know, the small organ that's very vital to anyone with a heart, and evidently vital to Demogorge too.

And I'm having a problem seeing Demogorge in that scene as an Eternity level being as well.




Originally posted by abhilegend
Again, that's cool with me. All I am saying is that Thor was injured and most likely wasn't at 100% power. Yeah, that was quite impressive for surfer, I'm not denying that. If Thor wasn't 100% than Fraction is going to need to up the ante when he shows him utilizing his full power. I mean, when his best feat is him supposedly being injured... not only injured but he outperformed his 70's self when his 70's self also cheapshotted a Galactus, yet that Galactus was weakened, and his 70's self was at full power. Color me dubious.

And no, I'm not saying he wasn't in pain, but I see no reason his power was decreased because of this pain, especially when his feats in the series were that impressive.

If he wasn't at 100%, he sure as hell seemed close in power. Hell, if he wasn't 100% then Fraction Thor is most likely the most powerful Thor, minus King or Rune King. Him not being at 100% in that series would have been 120 in most others.

Which like I said, is a good basis for a powerup from Surfer's Annihilation escapades. Thor was written high, and it'd be hard to see Surfer matching this in raw power mind you, without some sort of powerup (as opposed to just the suspension of disbelief).



Originally posted by abhilegend
One UBER PIS scene doesn't invalidates everything in that series. BP was using a machine that drained surfer in the past and it drained him there too. What's wrong with that scene if the exact same thing has happened before.

Yeah, if only we go to "DURRRRR, armbarrrr" route and declare everything PIS in that series. I mean batman survived punches from a bloodlusted superman in sacrifice which is even bigger PIS than armbar situation, I should call his fight with wonder woman PIS. You are amazing bieb.
One pis scene? In two issues he managed to show that Storm can rip apart Stardust easily, Storm can make Surfer reel from an attack while acknowledging he flies through suns, Johnny can knock Surfer off the board, Johnny can eat a board to the face, Black Panther can take a cheapshot from Stardust that's a constant blast and not be KO'ed, Gravity can hurt Galactus, Gravity can fill up Galactus, Stardust has to worry about two small event horizons when she's previous made one of the more impressive black holes we've seen in comics, Storm is fine after being shot in the back from Surfer, etc.
It wasn't just one stupid part of the series, and if you think that you must not have read the series. And if you think it was just one stupid moment, then you must think you're arguing with Carter here (which I'll get to later).

Doom got the drop on Surfer and grabbed him from behind. Black Panther complete drained Surfer from absorbing one three panel blast... apparently a couple second blast is Surfer's full power. Does that sound right to you?
Surfer's entire power source can be drained by one quick blast through one hand. The easiest time Surfer's ever been drained is when even you admitted he was "restored" in power.

Oh yes, because Batman hasn't been on the positive side of what some would call "PIS". Some might call that PIS, I call that an average.
Plus, many people call that Wonder Woman fight PIS anyway... what with the super hearing, and him being bloodlusted, and WW winning, and whatnot is what the kids are saying.

Could you have picked a worse example? Doubtful.


Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, he is. Otherwise I wouldn've read almost every appearance of him. Or you just read all his issues so you could pick out low feats... don't worry, I've done that before.

From reading all of his series, you sure found a lot of low feats. My question to you however, is why haven't you posted any decent feats at all? Why do I not see you in threads defending him from a character "you don't like" ever? Why do I always see you arguing against him?

At some point in time you have to realize this looks suspicious if you keep claiming you don't hate him.

I mean, it's exactly like Carter (except better written) claiming he loves Thor yet he shits all over him in every thread. Is that what you want to be known as? Carterlegend

Originally posted by abhilegend
Or maybe its just visual confirmation that he was depowered. His glaze has been melted off of him many times IIRC, he was once knocked out by a clay clone of his created by puppet master and it was melted off. Meh, it can be argued that he was just reclaiming the power or PAK thinks that surfer's glaze is dependent on power. HE devolving surfer to norrin radd doesn't makes any sense when you consider that its him all along under that galactic glaze. Surfer is still supposed to have super strength and defense against space shit with just his silvery glaze... not that it's been used often in comics, but that's it's supposed to do.
Taking away absolutely everything gives him no connection to any power, and makes him much more human. Which I think at least Pak was trying to portray but you never know with that guy.

Korvac also melted his skin off, and he still rammed into the bomb killing both of them.

You realize you just talked about what Pak was doing and then said something else doesn't make sense. Welcome to Pak 101. It doesn't have to make sense.

Surfer having all that cosmic power could be seen as an evolution, somewhat akin to the X-gene via added powers. Devolving it would turn him back into a "human". At least it makes sense in this guy's brain right here.

Lot's of shit HE does doesn't make sense though. I mean he evolved people by turning them into werewolves and shit. And he evolved Galactus by turning him into a giant brain. As far as I'm concerned, the Surfer example makes more sense than most of his history.



Originally posted by abhilegend
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/annihilationsilversurfer03page18aj1.jpg

Like I said, it could be argued both ways. Galactus says that he can heal surfer, give surfer new powers alongside removing his remorse and surfer declines. You can argue that he didn't decline the offer of new powers but galactus' offer to heal surfer makes me doubt it. Galactus restoring surfer's powers is also supported by this.

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/719/noupgrade3mb3.jpg Let's just take what you just posted as an absolute fact, ok?

You realize that it says restore, right? You can't be restored to power and stay at the same level. You're reinforcing my point I hope you know.

Which means Galactus restored Surfer to a level that he was at previously, which likely meant that he restored him to his highest level, and the only possible permanent cut I can possibly think that could have happened was during his first appearance. Actually, Galactus says right before that an Earth woman was the cause of Surfer's will being gone.
http://i46.tinypic.com/34t22xy.jpg

Couple that with "restoring powers" and it seems he's talking about when he blasted Surfer on Earth. So right there he's talking about very early in the history of Surfer. Which means Surfer was restored to a power level above what he's shown in a strong majority of his history, so how off would it be to call it a powerup? Not in the least.

So even if he just restored Surfer, that means Surfer walked out of Annihilation even more powerful than he did when he came in. Which means everything after Annihilation was him being powered up, and most of what happened before Annihilation was him being weaker.

Either way, it would have been a powerup.

So...




Originally posted by abhilegend
Nothing that indicates an increase of power seeing that at that time Thor was the most powerful guy on the block and seeing surfer's stock rising in last two decades. I mean thor was able to throw both hulk and namor trying to restrain him around the same time too. Yeah, that's totally a power up, creating black holes and beating a guy who was later beat up by ronan IIRC. IOW he is getting more respect from writers concerning his power levels. There was two different eras of Thor being greater than Surfer. Blood and Thunder, and Surfer's 4th issue. Unless you think over two decades difference is around the same time...
Blood and Thunder treated Surfer like a flea to Thor. And Thor was more powerful than Surfer with Loki's added powers in the 4th issue (even though Surfer won).
The recent fights have vastly increased his performance against Thor. So much so that Surfer is actually seen to be able to match him, and even take his hits without using outside sources to try and prove this. Previously Blood and Thunder one shotted him, and he didn't even have to touch Surfer in the first fight for Surfer to admit inferiority. In the Fraction fight he is seen taking everything but the kitchen sink.

I was wrong, Surfer created a black hole before his powerup. My mistake. It still doesn't change much.
Between Surfer taking attacks from Galactus level beings (when he's been one shotted numerous times by Galactus before hand), matching Thor, dispatching Ravenous much more easily, beating the shit out of Skaar h2h, and currently doing a lot of stupid shit in the Defenders, he seems more powerful.

Surfer had trouble with Ravenous before his powerup. He had a lot less trouble and even seemed to play with him a little bit while fully knowing his weakness. "I tire of this" he said, and then promptly destroyed the Curr's and Ravenous' will.

Also, Ronan beat Ravenous when Ravenous wasn't connected to his Currs via Super Skrull just killed them. That would have made Ravenous quite a bit weaker as the Currs supplied the power. I'm sure you'll question me, but I'll give my reasons.
Here Surfer states that the Currs are the ones supplying the power:
http://i47.tinypic.com/w70lsy.jpg

And here is Skrull killing the Currs on Ravenous right before Ronan breaks his face:
http://i47.tinypic.com/a0gy9z.jpg

Ronan did not beat a full power Ravenous. Surfer did, twice (well, the second time he cut him off from the Currs himself). Plus, it took Ronan's most powerful attack to beat him. The guy smashed his hammer over his face. That wasn't just a hammer shot.

Well, you already posted that Surfer got "restored" in power so I can't fathom why you're going against a powerup still.
And yes he's getting more respect from writers as well, but that doesn't mean his in comic explanation of a power up is overuled.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, rigggggght. Tell that to null bomb and all the energies mjolnir has absorbed. How about you use feats where Thor's actually drained characters?

It took him three pages to absorb Presence and left him in a state where he was still functional.

He drained Kang quickly, however Kang was gloating about radiating energy that would kill the Avengers, and he overloaded Kang with the ten fold energy he unleashed back at him... and then Kang escaped. He also didn't seem to absorb too much from Kang as well.

He also drained power from... oh no wait, he didn't.

There's two times... you really think twice over 40 years is viable enough to bring it up in battle against a guy he's fought many times and never used it against him? At least give an actual reason that Thor would absorb him other than "Surfer gets drained, Thor drain once or twice". Maybe if Surfer was radiating energy or radiation, or something of the sort, but just regular Surfer? Not a chance. Not in character.

Two characters... that's your trump card. Seriously.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I am not saying that thor is going to draining at all, I'm just arguing that IF thor uses it surfer is in trouble. You're not saying, but you are saying, and then you're not saying, but also don't forget that you're saying.

If you're not saying, then why the **** are you so heavily arguing it? You realize you got one argument going that stems entirely from Surfer's power draining resistance and feats, and another argument that stems from Thor actually using power draining?
But you sure as **** aren't saying it, amirite?

If if if if

You want to play the if game? If Surfer opens up a black hole, then that's going to be a huge distraction for Thor which allows Surfer to unload whatever he can. If Surfer goes astral mode and attacks Thor, it's going to greatly damage him. If Surfer starts blasting Thor from the front, and whips his board really hard at the back of his head, it's going to create a huge opening. IF

But, let's open up this can of CIS, and go with your "IF".

If Thor decides to drain Surfer, and if for some reason Surfer is standing still, then yes, Surfer is in trouble. Also, Surfer will be standing still as soon as he gets hit by the first sign of getting his power drained, and won't try and shield it with his board or whatnot.

Yes, IF it all goes to plan, then Surfer is in a real pickle. It's too bad he's not going to use it since we argue in characters here and Thor draining Surfer isn't even a blip on the radar. I could have probably just ignored it going by forum rules, but then we wouldn't be in this little debate.


Originally posted by abhilegend
I know that feeling.




Your loss.


What about thor when his supposed true love leaves him for a dickless horse.
You know that feeling? Yet you're acting like the people who gave you that feeling? You know exactly what's it's like when someone says "oh Surfer just throws down a black hole!", so if some random fuddy duddy says it to you, it's open field in any other thread?

You hate highballing, so you're going to bring out a very rarely used tactic to give someone the edge against Surfer! Does this make sense to you?



Beta's probably got a huge cock.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Eh, I haven't seen mjolnir being unable to absorb energy from a source which is moving. Have you? Does that somehow negates power drainage, I didn't know that mjolnir had a range where it can absorb energy. I haven't seen Thor absorb energy from a target moving away from him that capable of very quick movement and not just straight forward movement. Have you?

Whenever Thor drains energy it's usually in somewhat close proximity to Mjolnir, still, or coming right at him, and it's you know... energy. Not a being moving around.

But you're acting like you got an ace up your sleeve, no? I'd like to see Thor drain energy from a being that's moving all over the place rather than straight for his hammer. I'd like to see Thor draining energy from something moving away from him at a good speed. No, it doesn't even have to be a being, let's just see him draining energy from something a good distance away from Mjolnir that's not coming straight for him.

You want to appeal to a no limits fallacy, then by golly you should have some proof to back up your case.

And to answer your sarcasm, yes, of course Mjolnir has a limit on range. What a silly thing to say. Mjolnir isn't a no limit weapon.

Also, Mjolnir being thrown at a big ball of energy isn't relevant, unless you think Surfer is going to get full drained from the hammer hitting him, and if you think Surfer is just going to stand there.




Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't lowball him, I just try to balance the highballing going on in a thread as usual for surfer. I know what he is capable of and what he isn't. Unfortunately most thread involving surfer is either superman/surfer or thor/surfer where I like both more than surfer, so I have to defend them against surfer. Actually I give him props whenever possible, I have given him wins over almost every other herald level guy save a split to thor. I give him 6.5/10 against superman, 7/10 against hal and so on. Even in this thread I give him split against thor. If by "liking him" you mean saying that surfer takes 8/10 against superman, 7/10 against thor and speedblitzes every other guy, then sorry bieb. I'm not a fanboy of surfer.
What ****ing highballing is going on in this thread? You're the only one who's highballing or lowballing Surfer here. Boo hoo, Surfer gets highballed, it doesn't mean you have to start lowballing him in a thread where he's getting almost no props at all, or barely even mentioned.
You think you're being a neutral force in a thread where Surfer is barely being talked about and you're throwing ifs and buts all over the place and just looking for a reason to post low feats? You're the guy to balance everything out when Surfer is stated to "stalemate Thor for a period of time", and you're going to balance it out against none of Surfer's feats with a bevy of low feats?
Please.

You have to defend him against Thor and Superman? What does your code of honor say when Surfer isn't getting almost any props? You don't have to lowball him in a thread where you yourself admitted he likely splits... or God forbid, Surfer is getting any props.

I'm sure those wins are handed out with an asterisk. I haven't any doubt that the majority of those threads were you arguing against Surfer but admitting that "well, I guess he wins". I bet if I went to a Hal vs Surfer thread you'd be in there arguing that Hal isn't to trifled with and the like. Be honest, am I wrong here?

By like him I mean don't bring up low feats every chance you get and don't argue against him every chance you get. He's one of your favorite characters, yet you have a fit when his high feats are brought up, and look for ways to go against that? Allow me to be dubious Carter... I mean, certainly in no way acting like Carter. I mean, Carter loves Thor, and you love Surfer... you guys are just being true to the character, amirite?

On that note, I bet those pictures were freshly added to your photobucket, and you were just looking for a chance to post them. What better way to spam a thread with low feats than to do so in a strategy that "you don't really believe in". You figured you could tack it onto Thor having that one time where he absorbs someone's energy, and there we go.

A reason to post a bunch of low feats!

I mean, look at how fair and honest you're being when you're combatting all the highballing!

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Silver Surfer vs Thor = Irrelevant. Neither will beat each other fast enough, so it's up to others to decide it Originally posted by abhilegend
Actually thor can just drain surfer with mjolnir considering surfer's track record against draining. Just a sample
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_05.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_06.jpg

Does that look like a post from a guy who likes Surfer? Or does it look like a post from a Surfer hater?

Or... or... or... does that look like a guy who collected a bunch of low feats and was just itching to post them?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why, because no one tried it before? No, because Thor's never done it in like the 7 battles they had with each other, duh. Because Thor's only done it twice in like a 40 years history, and one involved radiation that was going to kill the whole Avengers.

It isn't because it's happened to Surfer before. I'm not saying Surfer can't be drained (although I hope it'd be harder now), I'm saying that Thor isn't going to do it because it's not in character.

Actually, you want to hear something sad? Thor's actually Godblasted more times than he's drained people. If you're going to argue Thor drains people just because it might work, then you might as well start spamming "Godblast" in threads.


Originally posted by abhilegend
Phail bieb, phail. Oh ya, old toolbox Thor could never beat Superman. Thor with his millions of powers... how naive of me to say his name.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't care about hulk and I'm saying non-stop that it isn't likely that Thor would use this tactic at all. Doesn't mean he can't do it and that's what I'm saying here. I was bringing up Hulk because Thor it's Thor most common opponent and Thor could easily take Hulk out in something he's actually used many times. Yet you don't see people clamoring for Thor to BFR Hulk. If you don't see a correlation between this and Surfer, then I don't know what to tell you.
Actually, Hulk vs Thor is way worse since Thor has actually teleported Hulk before, and fought more battles. He's fought numerous Surfer ones as well, and never drained him (mind you, he has a lot fewer draining feats against other characters than he does BFR feats).
Same thing, but on a lesser level. Just because "Hulk" was mentioned, doesn't mean you have to go full on "he's not in this thread, I shall ignore him". That's all too often a cop out I see for many debators.

You're arguing non stop that it isn't likely, at the same time you keep saying if, he could, and doesn't mean he can't do it. Do you not see a conflict there? You're acting like a victim when you keep ****ing stating it. And what do you want me to do, just ignore one of the things you keep stating over and over to me and arguing with me about it? Do you want me to ignore you stating that Thor would drain Surfer or something while you're playing the victim card?

Pick a stance. You either think he's going to do it, or he won't. You're the only one arguing this. There is no "he could" when everything is coming from your mouth.

If you're going to try and reaffirm your stance then reaffirming the tactic of another stance isn't going to do it. Yes you argued that Thor likely wouldn't, but you just said in the same post that IF Thor used it... there is no if though, and the sooner you realize that, the sooner this argument will be over.

Actually, let me employ your logic for a second.
I'm not saying Surfer would use it, but if he attacked Thor's mind, he'd be in a lot of trouble (insert low feats of Thor's resistance, some feats of Surfer's offense). Look man, if Surfer did this, he would definately beat Thor. I'm saying he would, but he certainly COULD. And it doesn't mean he wouldn't!

Do you not see a big ****ing confusion brewing within that same post? That's you. That's what you're doing. You've contorted yourself into a spiraled penis.

If we're going to start using this logic, I might as well start arguing characters on the same level just start one shotting people. Something that actually happens in comics a lot.
Let's get a preview of things to come:

"Look, I'm not saying it would happen, but if Surfer hit Thor in the right spot with his board, he could certainly one shot him!
*scans of Thor getting knocked out*
*scans of Surfer throwing board*
This changes the entire dynamic of Thor vs Surfer as we know since Surfer could just one shot Thor if he hit him in the right spot!"

The amount of doors you open with your line of logic is delicious.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not at all, nice try though. It's exactly the same thing only you hide it behind a veil of "IF IF IF".

You're turning CIS off in your what if scenerio and then claiming that Surfer using a bunch of random powers isn't the same thing? How does that make sense? Seething hate isn't an answer.

How is Surfer using barely used battle ending tactics not the same as Thor using barely used "battle ending" tactics? Because one is Silvery? Like really, I don't get how they're not the same.

Unless you're implying that your use of the word "If" actually supersedes the uncanny resemblance between the two arguments. Which really doesn't work out since you keep on stating it over and over again, and would still make them much alike.



Originally posted by abhilegend
I agree. If you agree then why the hell would you bring up power draining? Devil's advocate?

I suspect I hit the nail on the head with an earlier response, but really, it makes no sense at all that you think this, yet are so vehemently opposed to the tactic in no way being relevant to this battle.

You agree to it being a stalemate, but you want to make sure that Thor's power draining is not forgotten. Shit doesn't work like that.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
It took him three pages to absorb Presence and left him in a state where he was still functional.

On the other hand, Thor was extremely pissed and probably wanted the Presence to suffer as he thought the Avengers were dead. He left him alive -just barely- because the Red Guardian said she could reverse the process.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Because Thor's only done it twice in like a 40 years history, and one involved radiation that was going to kill the whole Avengers.


That's not true.

Also, I'm assuming hoping you're referring to purely Thor draining actual opponents of their power and not just energy in general. Otherwise that's just crazy talk.

Would Thor draining the shield of Magneto and Mjolnir storing a portion of energy from each collective pantheon count? He stopped at Magneto's shield and the Skyfathers gave the energy, but if we're discussing Thor's capability -not willingness- to manipulate the energy of an organic who didn't initiate an attack, it's support.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
On the other hand, Thor was extremely pissed and probably wanted the Presence to suffer as he thought the Avengers were dead. He left him alive -just barely- because the Red Guardian said she could reverse the process.



That's not true.

Also, I'm assuming hoping you're referring to purely Thor draining actual opponents of their power and not just energy in general.

Would Thor draining the shield of Magneto and Mjolnir storing a portion of energy from each collective pantheon count? He stopped at Magneto's shield and the Skyfathers gave the energy, but if we're discussing Thor's capability -not willingness- to drain an organic who didn't initiate an energy attack, it's support. I realize. But for Thor to take Presence out completely with power draining, it took three pages. I don't doubt he could have killed him though in that same page.

Purely on Thor draining opponents.

A shields a shield. Pretty much the same as a blast.

They gave their Godly energy into a Godly enchanted hammer. Although how he got it was a lot more impressive. Beating Shiva and all.

I haven't once questioned Thor's capability. His willingness is a completely different story. CIS off is ridiculous for both Surfer and Thor.

Too close to call. Loki is a wild card here he could take quite a few on team two, but he isn't the most powerful on the field by a long shot.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I realize. But for Thor to take Presence out completely with power draining, it took three pages. I don't doubt he could have killed him though in that same page.

Purely on Thor draining opponents.

A shields a shield. Pretty much the same as a blast.

They gave their Godly energy into a Godly enchanted hammer. Although how he got it was a lot more impressive. Beating Shiva and all.

I haven't once questioned Thor's capability. His willingness is a completely different story. CIS off is ridiculous for both Surfer and Thor.

Also, it being 3 pages doesn't automatically mean it took a long time. The entire sequence could have lasted a minute and the Presence was very quickly rendered defenseless:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsPresence1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsPresence2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsPresence3.jpg

Alright, that makes more sense.

Fair enough I guess.

Off the top of my head, Thor draining and/or manipulating opponents of their internal energy include Marduk, Kang, Presence, X-ray, the Wrecking Crew, IIRC a Cosmic Vampire and there might be one or two more that I forget.

Yea, that's fanboy nonsense. Thor can use Mjolnir's energy absorption defensively but unless Surfer's about to unleash a blast that threatens the Earth forcing Thor to bring out the rape van, it's not happening.

Also, you guys were discussing Mjolnir's range and ability to draw in energy or whatever. It's shown that it can act like an energy vacuum, drawing in power from various -or all- directions at once a few times over the years. Scans can be posted if necessary.

There's probably more I want to discuss, but the wall of texts are irritating. F*cking nerds.

uhuh

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Also, it being 3 pages doesn't automatically mean it took a long time. The entire sequence could have lasted a minute and the Presence was very quickly rendered defenseless:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsPresence1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsPresence2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsPresence3.jpg

Alright, that makes more sense.

Fair enough I guess.

Off the top of my head, Thor draining and/or manipulating opponents of their internal energy include Marduk, Kang, Presence, X-ray, the Wrecking Crew, IIRC a Cosmic Vampire and there might be one or two more that I forget.

Yea, that's fanboy nonsense. Thor can use Mjolnir's energy absorption defensively but unless Surfer's about to unleash a blast that threatens the Earth forcing Thor to bring out the rape van, it's not happening. Not quick enough to be relevant to Surfer was my main point.

I forgot the X-Ray one, but the other two had a lot to do with magic, which I why I didn't include them.
The X-Ray one involved radiation, the Ghaur one (forget which one he fought) he just gathered up his energy form and sent him to the sun. That's three times, five if you count absorbing enchantments.
Thor's Godblasted that many times...

Pretty much.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Also, you guys were discussing Mjolnir's range and ability to draw in energy or whatever. It's shown that it can act like an energy vacuum, drawing in power from various -or all- directions at once a few times over the years. Scans can be posted if necessary.

There's probably more I want to discuss, but the wall of texts are irritating. F*cking nerds.

uhuh Can't resist defending Thor, can you?

You're talking about his whirlwinding energy up aren't you? Can't see how that's relevant to draining someone's power, but I digress.

Meh, I just wanted to get as much shit off the table as I could since I think I'm going to work tomorrow... of course, I've been hearing that for the past week, but it might be right this time. Hope not

Originally posted by leonidas
not really. the whole thing COULD have been in ss's mind.

The last page where motherboard realizes that surfer tempered with her data says otherwise.




Not really, when we clearly see surfer stating that he never felt so weak since dynamo city drained him completely. Yeah, we saw that he can overload a machinery which was built to drain his power cosmic in increments. Eh, surfer avoided a ball of darkness designed to cut him from starlight. Not sure how it would help him here.




I admit, I haven't read on quasar as much as I like to think but what are his best energy absorption feats?





Absolutely agree, the problem is surfer has too many of them.
Which were designed taking him in account? I can think of only two sonic shark and Dr. doom's device.
I respect your opinion but your methods are not quite able to convince me yet that he could combat it.

Eh, you think if thor is drawing PC from surfer, a blast from surfer wouldn't be drawn towards mjolnir with it considering the blast would be PC too. It certainly isn't a spectrum vacuum, but it doesn't need to be a vacuum.





So, what would you say was the thing that beat him? Maybe they meant to show the draining on first page to indicate that it was the draining that beat him.




Of course.



So what would be the line where we say its PIS in your opinion?





LOL, I'd like to think I don't come across like an ANTI-FANBOY but maybe you're right. The thing is when you read that surfer can manipulate and create 5-d magic, you don't know what to do with these kind of fanboys.





You loss.sneer





Against presence I suppose. I can see only teleporting as being effective here against draining for surfer here, so I think it is possible for him to combat draining based on his actual record against draining. Again I agree to disagree but let's leave it to that.





You are confusing the scene.



Eh, I re-read the scan and you're right. Has surfer done that, I mean cutting off the energy while it was drained from him? The closest I can think of is when Iron man did it.





Now when you describe it like that it really sounds ridiculous.





Yeah, it isn't quite what I would say is in the realm of possibility but you demanded a scan where Thor absorbed something that is moving and I produced one.






I know, right.





Yeah I know I can't decide what's canon or not. But there IS an instance which makes it non canon and that is the stance of parallel realities and merging of two different characters. Since the silver surfer which encountered unilord deviated from 616 surfer when he was unable to breach dimensional barrier, its not canon for 616 surfer. He later merged with 616 surfer sure but that doesn't mean it makes unilord saga canon for him any more than the merger of 616 hulk and heroes reborn hulk makes heroes reborn canon for 616 hulk. Oh no, I can read comics too leo and make my own mind upon it. That was just most convenient way to make my stance upon the mater.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Well, that's annoying. I just wrote a large response, and it got erased because I searched "Katy Pervy" in google and it used this tab to search it... and I was completely done in like three more sentences.

Might as well take the time to revisit some things, while trying to remember what I wrote.

Time to end this charade.

Aww, all this for just me. I'm flattered bieb but its far from over.





I knew about it and no, I just was arguing with darthgoober on this topic on herochat and he thinks its non-canon. Doesn't matter to me as I can come to conclusions on my own, but thank you to remind me.




What? I never said that surfer can't zip around and spam thor with blasts. You want to argue that he can do it while CIS on or off, go ahead. I accepted that thor wouldn't use draining while CIS on and was just discussing a hypothetical situation where he decides to use it on surfer. You want to discuss that surfer spams thor in a hypothetical or real battle, I have no problems with it. Actually surfer fans make me laugh with their extrapolation. The only guy who is looking like in a rage here is you with all these "Let's end this charade" and "Surfer of all people" like surfer is someone with clean record against energy draining and how dare someone use that against him.



You are? Could've fooled me. Of course not, you are giving yourself much more credit as usual. I was using it from the start

Originally posted by abhilegend
Aren't both nova and quasar helpless against magic? The biggest gun in annihilators i.e. surfer is a ***** of mjolnir. If thor decided to drain surfer, its over for baldy.



Yeah, we would see to that, don't we.








What? I acknowledged that surfer looked many times more powerful than gladiator already. I don't like gladiator at all. Yeah, you want to convince me that surfer is 50 or 100 times powerful than gladiator, go ahead. I'm listening.





Of course not.


Yeah and he was also shown to be flying from newyork to california while fully amped by uni-power and quite possibly at his top speed in two minutes. Suffice to say that gladiator was as impressive as always that means he gets beat up all the time. I already accepted that, bro.



Eh, I think he didn't have any kind of energy power before that, but I'd have to check that again. He was an energy vampire which aren't very intelligent people out there.



I can respect that.



I'm not sure what would you like me to say here. Surfer was shown to be multiple times powerful than gladiator? I already said that.


It was very impressive, I agree upon that.






Your definition for hindered is quite different than mine it seems. Thor had a gaping wound in his torso which was shown to give him pain and I would think that it can be said that he wasn't at his full strength.



Of course not when you consider who thor is. The guy has fought while his body was just liquid in an armor. Doesn't mean he was at full power.

Of course being hurt in comics automatically means a character is at 100% power unless stated otherwise. Oh wait........

It was acknowledged in the comic where they fought that he was wounded while retrieving the galactus seed. Here is thor saying that it hurts like hel, that obviously means he was at full power

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_09-02-201104.jpg



Good for you.






Who said it was a be all end all feat? He still killed demogorge and the attack on galactus was a flying from one one end of galactus's head to another which while hugely impressive isn't the be all and end all of his striking feats either.


Yeah, we did. Doesn't takes away anything from the feat that he killed a being several tiers above him. The way fraction is writing thor, I don't see him hurting thor being the indication that he is completely at 100% power.



Rage convinced me.uhuh






Thor is undoubtedly more powerful than his 70's self and galactus is too. You can be dubious all you want, but you wouldn't see a thor battling a hugely amped Thing and a hugely amped hulk by himself and coming out on top just after he got released from a prison after getting a huge thrashing from odin.



Doesn't makes any sense, if he was in pain with a wound across his gut then he wasn't fully healthy. Pure and simple. He just has a lot of damage soak.




I'm not denying any of that. I'm just saying that he wasn't at 100% power, he might have been 95% or 90% or anything in between.

Or maybe fraction gives surfer the respect he deserves, just look at surfer in defenders. Mind you attuma made surfer look like a ***** in the same event.



Surfer has been hurt by storm's lightning before and johnny has knocked surfer out of his board too. I think he made a lot of errors writing heralds and galactus but draining surfer with something that has worked in the past isn't one of them.


Oh, I have read it. You think the whole series written by mcduffie was PIS, be my guest. But then we would've to do that with a lot of comics out there.



Doom also drained surfer in three panels IIRC.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_FantasticFourv105715.jpg

What would you think should've been occurred? You are complaining over panel times here?


Yeah, and?





Tell that to the wonder woman fangirls.

Why not? I could've picked annihilation.
131




Hahaha, really? You think I was going through reading all those comics before I even started to post here regularly was to find out low feats? You're just priceless.



Point me to a thread where surfer appeared against someone other than superman and thor recently and I haven't argued in favor of him, heck this was my first post in the superman vs silver surfer thread.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer wins 6/10. . I think the respect thread was done for the purpose of posting the decent feats and I found almost every one of the feats I found in the comics I found there already.



Don't try to turn this into another carver bashing argument. I like surfer, quite a lot and I've given him wins over almost every character in the the thread he appears. Just because I think Thor can drain him in a VERY special scenario doesn't means that I shit on his power.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Surfer is still supposed to have super strength and defense against space shit with just his silvery glaze... not that it's been used often in comics, but that's it's supposed to do.
Taking away absolutely everything gives him no connection to any power, and makes him much more human. Which I think at least Pak was trying to portray but you never know with that guy.

Yeah sometimes it is portrayed like that and sometimes not.


Yeah, I remember that.



You are right of course.



Interesting theory I would say but norrin wasn't evolved I would think. Do you have any on panel confirmation about this?



Yeah, it doesn't but I would still say that taking surfer's history and the fact that HE was using his powers later, its more of a case of power stealing.





Yeah, it could be taken as fact. Yeah, I think I know what I am doing, go ahead.



So what level that would be in your eyes? When he first appeared or before he was depowered by sonic shark? There must be a level which he was restored, right? I just want to know what level would that be?



I think you're confusing will with power here. He was talking about how surfer's will was damaged by the love of alicia masters which has happened many times in the past. It has also happened around the time when surfer went in the past with alicia around SS 141 and refused to become the herald of galactus again IIRC. Its too ambiguous IMO. The only way to determine if surfer has got an actual power up would be to compare his record against the opponents he's gone against in the past.



Not so fast bieb. If you're trying to push the idea that any low showing of surfer before annihilation isn't applicable to him anymore and only high showings are valid for him now then sadly its not the case here. Characters get power ups all the time yet relatively they all remain the same. Superman has got two official power ups since Byrne days and one after the last time he went against captain marvel. Would you say that he would beat cap throughly because of that power up?



Eh, like I said it can be argued both ways.


So.






I wouldn't say that. Surfer has looked better against many characters than Thor in the same time period like Wonder man, Hulk, Thor saying that surfer could've killed him with a warning shot etc.


He wasn't oneshotted IIRC. Just stunned for awhile. Yeah, he seemed more powerful than before in fraction fight.


Good.


I can see that but he had showings that can match or exceed, these showings like destroying planets against Morg, destroying the body of thanos which bested both thor and thing at the same time, his fight with mephisto, murringo-mo and the likes.



I would say that this was a lot more due to the his mindset than power.



Ah, I missed that. My mistake.



Yeah, I missed that.



I'm just curious to know what this restored power level for surfer is.



I already presented those.



Surely you wouldn't like to measure time by page count. And?



I didn't even used Kang as an example so there's that.


Huh?


Where did you get the idea that I'm using this as a tactic Thor is even going to use in this fight when I have already said that its very OOC for thor. Maybe you should read my posts again. I'm talking about a hypothetical scenario IF thor tried to use it as a tactic. Maybe 1% chance of it happening in a regular fight.



Not really.



Yeah, that's me.



Maybe because I like to find new ways to make a match interesting. There are hundreds of thor/surfer threads here, this would be just one more of them.



One more if.

Good for surfer.


Excellent.


Why so angry bieb? I wouldn't call it a little debate by any measure of the world.




Heh, the only difference being that I don't go harping about how thor wins here 10/10 via draining.



So much edge that I said that its a stalemate, right?





First no dick and then this?

That last quote by abhi and the response I found a bit disturbing.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I haven't seen Thor absorb energy from a target moving away from him that capable of very quick movement and not just straight forward movement. Have you?

Whenever Thor drains energy it's usually in somewhat close proximity to Mjolnir, still, or coming right at him, and it's you know... energy. Not a being moving around.

But you're acting like you got an ace up your sleeve, no? I'd like to see Thor drain energy from a being that's moving all over the place rather than straight for his hammer. I'd like to see Thor draining energy from something moving away from him at a good speed. No, it doesn't even have to be a being, let's just see him draining energy from something a good distance away from Mjolnir that's not coming straight for him.

You want to appeal to a no limits fallacy, then by golly you should have some proof to back up your case.

And to answer your sarcasm, yes, of course Mjolnir has a limit on range. What a silly thing to say. Mjolnir isn't a no limit weapon.

Also, Mjolnir being thrown at a big ball of energy isn't relevant, unless you think Surfer is going to get full drained from the hammer hitting him, and if you think Surfer is just going to stand there.

So surfer can move away to stop drainage?

Would this be enough

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DefeatsCesium.jpg







What? Using one high end feat of quasar to suggest that "no way in hell thor can do it" isn't highballing?


I'm just trying to have a different approach to a tested and tired discussion. I also gave it a stalemate if you didn't notice.



If I saw him getting lowballed in a thread against anybody then I would surely argue on his behalf. So unless surfer gets a majority, he's getting lowballed?



Yeah, I argued for superman when people are jumping up and down to claim that surfer beats him 9/10. I would post the first post saying that surfer wins in that thread too, right? Of course I would say that, Hal has the feats to take on any high herald and I would argue anybody who is lowballing him saying that he's getting steamrolled against surfer.



Actually, I don't throw a fit when somebody brings up high feats for surfer. I only object when it is extrapolated into being something it isn't. point me to a thread where I did that.



Your assumptions are hilarious. I knew about those instances for last six or eight months when I read up on surfer. I only added them because of a debate on herochat with goober.



Character ownage thread is here for just that.



Of course, bieb.





Good theory, bieb. Just answer this, why would I go for collecting some low feats when I know that it would be OOC for most characters in herald category to use energy drainage on surfer. If I was as desperate as you make me out to be, I would've posted them in character ownage first to enjoy commenting how pathetic surfer is, right since you know I hate surfer.



Obviously you didn't read my posts.



Yeah, you didn't read my posts.


Really? I didn't know that. Here I come KMC.



Of course not, he's superman.dur



Go in a hulk vs thor thread and all the thor fanboys would argue that he could take out hulk easily by BFR, I don't know which Thor vs hulk thread you are referencing here.. Hulk is easily the most lowballed character on KMC. i just wish I could give a dman about hulk to do something about it after seeing carver's lowballing of other characters and highballing of hulk.


Not at all.



It wouldn't be so complicated for you if you'd just read my posts. I'm not arguing that thor is going to drain him at all in this thread in character. Of course you can ignore me, nobody is forcing you to reply to me. I'm not playing any type of victim card here.



Easy, he isn't going to do it.



Yeah because my instance isn't clear from the start. Oh wait........



Absolutely possible.



I would say that you can be hilarious when you want to be. I actually laughed out loud at the last part.

Hahaha, I'm revolutionary my friend.

One last thing, I concede here. This was a pain in the ass to respond.

TLDR

Originally posted by Cogito
TLDR
fu

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hahaha, I'm revolutionary my friend.

One last thing, I concede here. This was a pain in the ass to respond. Haha, I just made a massive post that's almost done your first post before I hit refresh and did some other shit in real life.

I don't know if I should keep writing it or not now.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Haha, I just made a massive post that's almost done your first post before I hit refresh and did some other shit in real life.

I don't know if I should keep writing it or not now.
No more, please. No more.pray

I'm going to go poop and decide if I want to finish it

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Not quick enough to be relevant to Surfer was my main point.

I forgot the X-Ray one, but the other two had a lot to do with magic, which I why I didn't include them.
The X-Ray one involved radiation, the Ghaur one (forget which one he fought) he just gathered up his energy form and sent him to the sun. That's three times, five if you count absorbing enchantments.
Thor's Godblasted that many times...

Pretty much.

Debatable I think. And he's absorbed larger quantities, quicker than he did against the Presence. The duration and energy capacity of Mjolnir varies from writer and story but the one constant is that when shit is on the line, whether he's facing mundane or cosmic forces, he never fails.

Not sure why they wouldn't be included simply because Marduk and the Wrecking Crew gain their powers from mystical God energy. While I'd wager that Mjolnir has a preference for such power, any doubt of Mjolnir affecting energy on a different spectrum -with equal effectiveness- has been crushed. Basically, it's note worthy.

Fair point about Ghaur I guess, not sure why X-ray being empowered by radiation is distinction that changes something and what the God Blast has to do with this (Willingness is not my point of contention if that was the point).

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Can't resist defending Thor, can you?

You're talking about his whirlwinding energy up aren't you? Can't see how that's relevant to draining someone's power, but I digress.

Meh, I just wanted to get as much shit off the table as I could since I think I'm going to work tomorrow... of course, I've been hearing that for the past week, but it might be right this time. Hope not

Yea, I have a problem.

What instance in particular are you thinking of? I was referring to Mjolnir drawing in energy from all directions into it's head:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DrawsMagneticForces.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsMegatak4.jpg (That depowers him by the way)
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/NullBombAbsorb.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/DefeatsShiva3.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/AbsorbThanosEnergy1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/AbsorbThanosEnergy2.jpg

Not sure about draining individuals specifically or whatever, I simply remember Mjolnir's ability to absorb energy from various directions being discussed.

Like I said.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Debatable I think. And he's absorbed larger quantities, quicker than he did against the Presence. The duration and energy capacity of Mjolnir varies from writer and story but the one constant is that when shit is on the line, whether he's facing mundane or cosmic forces, he never fails.

Not sure why they wouldn't be included simply because Marduk and the Wrecking Crew gain their powers from mystical God energy. While I'd wager that Mjolnir has a preference for such power, any doubt of Mjolnir affecting energy on a different spectrum -with equal effectiveness- has been crushed. Basically, it's note worthy.

Fair point about Ghaur I guess, not sure why X-ray being empowered by radiation is distinction that changes something and what the God Blast has to do with this (Willingness is not my point of contention if that was the point). Yes, but when the argument is about draining energy out of beings... and the Presence still stands as one of the few instances where he's beaten a being fully by draining that we've seen in full. The other is the Robot you just posted (no timeframe), possibly Marduk although I'm not sure of that, X-Ray while he was releasing blasts, and removing the enchantment from the Wrecker.
None of these characters have as much energy as Surfer stored within them... of course, he's not the most reliable, but still.

Oh I realize. But in those two instances, Thor was pissed about them having Asgardian magic/power at their command.

Because radiation isn't just simple energy. It's not just a "zap and heal", it's ****ing radiation.

Remember when you jumped into answering posts? Ya, will was entirely my point in these instances. I'm not going to change my stance just because you didn't care to read an entire post.

Thor draining characters all factors included has been done about as many times as a Godblast.



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yea, I have a problem.

What instance in particular are you thinking of? I was referring to Mjolnir drawing in energy from all directions into it's head:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DrawsMagneticForces.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsMegatak4.jpg (That depowers him by the way)
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/NullBombAbsorb.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/DefeatsShiva3.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/AbsorbThanosEnergy1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/AbsorbThanosEnergy2.jpg

Not sure about draining individuals specifically or whatever, I simply remember Mjolnir's ability to absorb energy from various directions being discussed.

Like I said. "I disagree with abhi's stance, but I like Thor so I'm going to back up his stance."

I figured you were simply talking about him whirlwinding energy down into his hammer like he's done to the gamma bomb, and the like.

Only the top two are relevant, and the rest are really no different than just draining blasts. The first one's hilarious. Drawing in magnetic energy to magnetize a robot ftw.
And the second one involves him figuring out it was pretty much electricity.

Basically, judging by this, do you think Thor could drain Surfer if Surfer was flying around trying to avoid Thor?

Your posts have irked me enough to finish my wall of text to abi though

^You are pure evil. I am going to e-kill you for posting that wall of text.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Your posts have irked me enough to finish my wall of text to abi though

Originally posted by abhilegend
The last page where motherboard realizes that surfer tempered with her data says otherwise.

he also says his mind is clearing. i really have no idea what really happened there. you're welcome to your interpretation. it's meaningless anyway. tech-related drains can and have worked to varying degrees anyway.



but he was weakened and was still able to overcome it. that was the point. as was his ability to use his speed to avoid an attack. if you're going the whole aoe energy drain route, you're in a lot of trouble since you need to show thor draining in some wide areas. and any time i've seen him drain the energy source is either standing still right in front of him or the energy is swirling around him--in both cases he is very close to the source and the source is not actively trying to avoid it. i said already if ss stands there and says--hey thor, wanna try and drain me? i'd say thor could probably do so, assuming ss didn't try and defend in any way.



one of the best is this one where he does what even ss fails to do:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/maximumsecurity3265qp.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/maximumsecurity3291nq.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/maximumsecurity3352jq.jpg



reed's devices in the past were also designed with ss in mind. wasn't the energy siphon prepped as well when it was used against ss?





no, i don't think it would necessarily follow that if thor tried some aoe drain that a focussed blast at the ground or something would automatically 'suck in the bolt'. seriously. you're acting like it's going to be some energy magnet. i don't see that being the case--AT ALL. nor have i ever seen it behave that way and CERTAINLY never in the midst of a battle like this one would be. it's like you think......thor sticks up his hammer, ss enters some indefensible event horizon created by this energy vacuum you've built up. but you have no idea how far out the event horizon extends, and you seem to think it impossible for ss to deal with if it did happen 1/100 times. teleporting. bull-rushing. back attack with baord. tp assault (more likely than this hilarious energy vacuum you are trying to establish), random blast to break contact. simply willing himself past it or just ignoring it like he did against quasar. all are at least as likely as his falling prey to this imaginary drain you're talking about.



not sure, tbh. i'd need to go back and look. honestly, i'm too damn lazy to pull out my books. what issue was it anyway?



that's pretty subjective and would need to be discussed on a case-by-case basis. some random space pirates beating him is pretty retarded though. given his level of displayed cosmic awareness, pis may apply to ss more than any character in comics besides flash.



you'll always get that. the people who i find worse are the ones who go AGAINST a character because that characters idiot fans make said character out to be stupidly awesome. fanboys can wreck characters. how many people here hate hulk, thanos and logan not because of the characters, but because of the people who typically represent them to the nth degree? even thor and superman fall into that category. and it's easy to do. i know, i've fallen into the trap more than once.



i think that scan was actually kang though. and it did happen to wrecker, just not there.







oi vey...



you're free to believe what you'd like so long as you know the unilord saga IS fair game in any forum discussion.

noticed you skipped my question about this imaginary energy vacuum and it's ability to instantly drain the energy from superman.....