Socialist Obama

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Omega Vision
Alright, so here's what I'm asking.

1) Why is Obama a socialist?

2) Why is socialism bad (and don't bring up strawmans that confute socialism with totalitarianism/communism)?

RE: Blaxican
1. He's not a socialist. He might of approve of some socialist practices, but he is not a socialist.

2. The problem I have with socialism is that I think it's anathema to human nature. The idea of putting the needs of the many over those of the few goes against our desire to be better than everyone else. As such, in a socialist systrm it would only be a matter of time before the system gets corrupted and it reverts back to a rat race anyway

That aside, I don't have anything against socialism, personally. It's one of those "gee, that'd sure be nice to see" things.

meep-meep
so controlled anarchism is the way, then.

inimalist
http://americanextremists.thecomicseries.com/images/comics/55/2d09f0eca28aa43daf344a4e27623cef1674197071.png

Shakyamunison
Are you better off then you were 4 years ago?

I am Not!

inimalist
to be fair: "are Obama's policies effective" and "is Obama a socialist" are two different questions.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by inimalist
to be fair: "are Obama's policies effective" and "is Obama a socialist" are two different questions.

That is true. Rather he is a socialist or not doesn't matter to me. I would be happy with a effective socialist, as long as that means the economy is in good shape. Ideology aside, I need to pay the mortgage and put food on the table.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Alright, so here's what I'm asking.

1) Why is Obama a socialist?

2) Why is socialism bad (and don't bring up strawmans that confute socialism with totalitarianism/communism)?

It's interesting people think socialism is bad. It isn't that bad. Free education, for example, police, firemen, general emergency services, benefits for the disabled and such are all socialist policies.

I don't believe these are bad at all. (health care is an issue which Americans disagree on, but from the European perspective, since that's free, it's also socialist).

Par contrast, China claims it's a communist country, yet healthcare there isn't free.

Mix and match of sorts, really.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
It's interesting people think socialism is bad. It isn't that bad. Free education, for example, police, firemen, general emergency services, benefits for the disabled and such are all socialist policies.

I don't believe these are bad at all. (health care is an issue which Americans disagree on, but from the European perspective, since that's free, it's also socialist).

Par contrast, China claims it's a communist country, yet healthcare there isn't free.

Mix and match of sorts, really.
China isn't communist, it's Post-Maoist stick out tongue

red g jacks
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
It's interesting people think socialism is bad. It isn't that bad. Free education, for example, police, firemen, general emergency services, benefits for the disabled and such are all socialist policies.

I don't believe these are bad at all. (health care is an issue which Americans disagree on, but from the European perspective, since that's free, it's also socialist).

Par contrast, China claims it's a communist country, yet healthcare there isn't free.

Mix and match of sorts, really. i think one source of confusion is that everyone seems to use their own definition of socialism.. especially here in america where the term has essentially been turned into sort of a taboo with which one can selectively demonize certain uses of government money, whilst supporting some of the more basic services you listed above. i personally like the idea of a government/society which collectively provides those services, including healthcare.

other people link socialism to the more fundamental idea of social ownership of the means of production, which is an experiment i'm not particularly confident in.

but i do think there is some practical value in trying to educate and uplift the masses through a proper infrastructure. i don't believe competition can be removed from the equation, but i do think you can improve competitiveness through direct investment.

Kennedypjp
Good thinking.http://forexjobs.info/g.gif

Mairuzu
A good laugh. Mostly facepalms

nNtJO3VUyNA

Omega Vision
The Occupy Movement is the Republican Party's dream come true. Every day it provides a new straw liberal to point the magnifying glass on, and it makes the Tea Party Movement look organized and sensible.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Omega Vision
The Occupy Movement is the Republican Party's dream come true. Every day it provides a new straw liberal to point the magnifying glass on, and it makes the Tea Party Movement look organized and sensible.

Ya, I was thinking the same thing. laughing out loud

Mairuzu
At least there are the few who know what they're talking about. Rare to spot in that crowd though.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mairuzu
At least there are the few who know what they're talking about. Rare to spot in that crowd though.

...and any reporter, when confronted with 100 nuts and 1 smart guy, will interview the nuts. That makes better news. sad

Darth Jello
1. Obama is not a Socialist. He embraces the Corporatist policies of Lemon Socialism (the government financially prompting up industries and brands with no merit such as big banks) and the concept of wealthy people and artificial people privatizing profits while socializing losses. In other words, just another conservative douchebag proving that the Democrats haven't run a good viable candidate in a general election since 1972.
2. Socialism is bad because it is an inefficient extreme, just like free market capitalism. Socialism stifles innovation and can lead to disasters via central planning, not to mention a lack of consumer choice. However, two flavors of socialism-Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy (depending on the nation) are ideal forms of government as they provide the freedoms of liberalism with the protections of socialism. A free democratic society pays high taxes resulting in high purchasing power, high wages, universal services, the diminishing of importance, though not the elimination of class along with entrepreneurial opportunity for all along with greater self-determination as economic restrictions in education and health care are eliminated.

jinXed by JaNx
Obama isn't a socialist? Hahaha...,He's something, alright. I think he's a Frackin terrorist.

RE: Blaxican
I don't think you know what a terrorist is.

Lord Shadow Z
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
benefits for the disabled

That's being quietly eradicated in England right now, lots of seriously ill people are getting kicked off by the draconian Atos company (endorsed by the government).

Robtard
Fox add that was pulled after complaints

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/600048/original.jpg

This was after Obama saying on ABC that he now supports the right for gays to marry: http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/president-obama-affirms-his-support-for-same-sex-marriage.html

Mairuzu
http://i50.tinypic.com/11ag3me.jpg

Robtard
It's a risky move, as there is a lot of bad sentiment towards gays and gay-marriage.

Look what happened in CA not that long ago, no one thought California of all states would vote against it, yet it happened

Mairuzu
I guess it depended on the amount of people who actually voted but yeah.


I'm sure these guys are careful with their decisions. It probably wont favor well to the people who already aren't supporting him like old republicans.

Mairuzu
http://rasica.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/12452906271071.jpg

Shakyamunison
Wouldn't that make Obama a flip-flopper?

Robtard
I'm sure it was done for political reasons and his advisers told him to do it now, possibly to gain support with the female demographic (or other), if he happened to be showing low numbers there.

It's just something I think that could easily blow-up in his face and lose him more votes that he initially had in total.

Mairuzu
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Wouldn't that make Obama a flip-flopper?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/Maverick-X/evolvingisnotflipflopping.jpg


Originally posted by Robtard
I'm sure it was done for political reasons and his advisers told him to do it now, possibly to gain support with the female demographic (or other), if he happened to be showing low numbers there.

It's just something I think that could easily blow-up in his face and lose him more votes that he initially had in total.

That's one reason. This is another...?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/10/romney-bully-gay-bullying_n_1506382.html




Hmmm

Robtard
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Wouldn't that make Obama a flip-flopper?

If this is the first time he's changed his mind on gay-marriage, no, it would be a mind-change. IIRC, it is. When he ran in 2008, he said "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman." Now he's rescinded.

"Flip-Flopper" is someone who goes back-and-forth on a stance(s). Romney is a perfect current example and a master of the tactic.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Robtard
If this is the first time he's changed his mind on gay-marriage, no, it would be a mind-change. IIRC, it is. When he ran in 2008, he said "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman." Now he's rescinded.

"Flip-Flopper" is someone who goes back-and-forth on a stance(s). Romney is a perfect current example and a master of the tactic.

Well, I heard that when he was a Senator he was for gay marriage. If that was true, then he is a flip-flopper, and for political reason to boot.

Robtard
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Well, I heard that when he was a Senator he was for gay marriage. If that was true, then he is a flip-flopper, and for political reason to boot.

Well, if you have some proof that he's gone back and forth, then sure, he's a flipper-flop.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Robtard
Well, if you have some proof that he's gone back and forth, then sure, he's a flipper-flop.

Well, flip-flopping is what politicians do.

Robtard
and fish out of water.

Mairuzu
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Well, flip-flopping is what politicians do.

Unless you're a square like Ron Paul. stick out tongue

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Mairuzu
Unless you're a square like Ron Paul. stick out tongue

Perhaps, but if he was better looking, then he would flip-flop too. stick out tongue

Mairuzu
Whatttt. Ron Paul gets the bitches. He was a pretty good lookin young man i'll have to admit. My girlfriend seems to think so and all those "ron paul girls".

You havent seen the Ron Paul bras lately?

http://i47.tinypic.com/2el58h4.jpg

Omega Vision
Lol, digging up something from pre-2008.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Mairuzu
Unless you're a square like Ron Paul. stick out tongue

Good on him, sticking to his horrible idiotic policies without the slightest thought.

Also he's gone back and forth on both the death penalty and global warming. Not to mention that he talks out one side of his mouth about government waste while piling on the pork, which makes him a flip-flopper every time he complains about the federal government.

dadudemon
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I don't think you know what a terrorist is.

Depends on the perspective. Using drones to execute an American Citizen could be considered terrorism for some.

inimalist
ya, but using that standard, you will be hard pressed to find a president who isn't a terrorist

dadudemon
Originally posted by inimalist
ya, but using that standard, you will be hard pressed to find a president who isn't a terrorist

No, by that standard, only Bush and Obama could be considered terrorists.

Mairuzu
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Lol, digging up something from pre-2008.


You must be gay to notice that haermm

Enjoy. stoned


http://i47.tinypic.com/14462ya.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/xe0s2s.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/2h2qf0i.jpg



and lololol


http://tizona.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ronpaul_01.jpg

Mairuzu
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Good on him, sticking to his horrible idiotic policies without the slightest thought.

Maybe its you who needs to do more thinking? stick out tongue

Or do you depend on the government for that too? Lol


Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

Also he's gone back and forth on both the death penalty and global warming. Not to mention that he talks out one side of his mouth about government waste while piling on the pork, which makes him a flip-flopper every time he complains about the federal government.


Back and forth? Exaduration and a strawman, lol. Its his personal opinion on the matter and not some stance he would take as president seeing how they only appoint the judges and not make the law on death penalty. Nice try.

I'd say it was a pretty wise decision to go against. Name a real flip flop?


Piling on the pork? Explain. stick out tongue

inimalist
Originally posted by dadudemon
No, by that standard, only Bush and Obama could be considered terrorists.

ok, but then they would be among the only terrorists, ever, as really no other people on the planet have used drones to kill civilians...

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