Asura vs Akuma

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majid86
I got this idea from this video:

http://youtu.be/8wks1GrqTFo

BloodRain
Akuma from Street Fighter or Asura's Wrath?

Sin_Volvagia
If this is Akuma from Street Fighter, Asura punts his overpowered hobo ass to the moon. If this Akuma from Asura's Wrath, don't ask me; I've only played the main game minus the unlockable chapter.

KingD19
Well in the unlockable episode 2, Oni Akuma seems to be a match for Mantra Asura.

No End N Site
I have to ask, what's the difference between AW akuma's full power and SF akuma's full power, As i have not played asura's wrath, nor do I ever plan to?

KingD19
Visually, a lot. Actual power wise, Oni Akuma and Mantra Asura are basically tied with Asura possibly having an almost imperceptible edge. But Asura still has another form that would take Akuma down with no problem.

No End N Site
What I'm asking is, has Akuma done anything in AW that he clearly can not do in SF?

Also, you seem to be unaware that Oni Akuma also has a Shin Oni form. It appears not to be present in AW, I would assume, lookin only at the clip? He also has never been shown fightin a single person in canon past his normal form, so to assume Asura can win at any rate is highly suspect.

This is why I would like to know which Akuma this is so one could gauge his power which should be easy to do since AW Akuma can't go Shin Oni, but actually has showings in his lesser Oni form. The SF version does not have showings as either Oni or Shin Oni, 'cept for the volcano feat in normal Oni mode.

NemeBro
Originally posted by No End N Site
He also has never been shown fightin a single person in canon past his normal form, so to assume Asura can win at any rate is highly suspect. So I guess you know absolutely nothing about Asura then?

No End N Site
You make it sound like such a bad thing. What's an Asurs? lol

But seriously, no, not really? But I know everything about an Akuma. So to ignore, "He also has never been shown fightin a single person in canon past his normal form" and the fact that he has an even stronger version of his Oni form, would be an act of hilariously poor judgement. An egregious act which is constantly demonstrated by most, unfortunately.

And yes, I know Asura has a giant planet sized form, but that form requires an outside means and is not a lvl he can just hop into with a thought. It is inadmissible in a 1 on 1. I know that much. If there's somethin else I should know about Asura and Akuma's normally achieved heights regardin this thread, feel free to inform.

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by BloodRain
Akuma from Street Fighter or Asura's Wrath?

SF Akuma would get stomped based on feats as his higher forms are more or less featless, while AW Akuma is going to end up losing in the third lost episode, so does it matter?

NemeBro
Originally posted by No End N Site
You make it sound like such a bad thing. What's an Asurs? lol

But seriously, no, not really? But I know everything about an Akuma. So to ignore, "He also has never been shown fightin a single person in canon past his normal form" and the fact that he has an even stronger version of his Oni form, would be an act of hilariously poor judgement. An egregious act which is constantly demonstrated by most, unfortunately.

And yes, I know Asura has a giant planet sized form, but that form requires an outside means and is not a lvl he can just hop into with a thought. It is inadmissible in a 1 on 1. I know that much. If there's somethin else I should know about Asura and Akuma's normally achieved heights regardin this thread, feel free to inform.

Asura even in his normal Vajra mode has destroyed planet-sized foes. By punching them really hard.

You could harp on about how Akuma's true power has never been shown, but what he has shown isn't just less than Asura, it is less by millions of orders of magnitude.

I can't comment on Akuma's AW feats. Haven't played.

KingD19
Well the vids are up on the tube, I watched both. Akuma was basically matching Asura. Then he got beat so hard that he transformed into Oni Akuma. To match that, Asura amped up to Mantra. Then they went at it...blew up the moon in the process, flew around space punchin each other for a bit. It was kinda like the final fight in S-Cry-Ed. Then they land on earth, throw a final punch and they apparently hit each other so hard they turn to stone. 500 years later a bird lands on Asura, and he starts moving, then Akuma starts moving, and they go to hit each other before it fades to black.

ares834
Here is the video:

pmVCkTyHmds

Moon busting is at about 12:45.

No End N Site
Originally posted by NemeBro
Asura even in his normal Vajra mode has destroyed planet-sized foes. By punching them really hard.

You could harp on about how Akuma's true power has never been shown, but what he has shown isn't just less than Asura, it is less by millions of orders of magnitude.


I had alot to say but I'm gonna just leave it at this, goin any further is an act of futility. If it is debatable whether or not Shin Akuma can destroy a world endin meteor. He blew it apart, which means he'd have to be millions of times more powerful than said meteor since he had way less of a distance to travel had to fight gravity to get to the meteor and had less time to unleash a force to combat it, this commin off a form that has shown to bust, just islands leaves Oni too far in the air to even try and gauge.

And thanks for lettin me know, if I cut a 5 story tree down with a chainsaw, this allows me to cut down a steel buildin of the same size with the same saw. You don't wanna go there cuz this opens up an entertainin can of worms with countless instances of double standards.

NemeBro
Your argument (The saw analogy) only applies if these beings were less durable than the Earth.

Gohma Vlitre (Or however its spelled) is the Earth, and reveals itself by bursting through the planet. A single one of its heads is the size of a continent.

Also, to the first part of your post: No. That kind of thinking effectively makes debate impossible. Could Akuma be a planet buster at full power? Sure it could happen. But nowhere in the series (Short of noncanon Ingrid cocksuckery) is that level of power even hinted at, the best feats ranging around the city/mountain/island busting levels from the top-tiers, including Akuma. So for the sake of debate, until Akuma gets better feats, we can assume Asura wins this.

KingD19
Oni Akuma broke the moon with Asura's assistance. Asura at his lowest level killed someone bigger than the Earth. And several more times he had even bigger feats than that.

No End N Site
If this is AW Akuma, than okay. I don't know anything about that Akuma. But if this is SF, this needs to be said. I'm not sayin any form of Akuma stands a chance against Asura, I'm sayin the SF version cannot be used. That's it.Originally posted by NemeBro
Your argument (The saw analogy) only applies if these beings were less durable than the Earth.

Gohma Vlitre (Or however its spelled) is the Earth, and reveals itself by bursting through the planet. A single one of its heads is the size of a continent.

Also, to the first part of your post: No. That kind of thinking effectively makes debate impossible. Could Akuma be a planet buster at full power? Sure it could happen. But nowhere in the series (Short of noncanon Ingrid cocksuckery) is that level of power even hinted at, the best feats ranging around the city/mountain/island busting levels from the top-tiers, including Akuma. So for the sake of debate, until Akuma gets better feats, we can assume Asura wins this.

The chainsaw is Asura's power, the tree is clearly suseptible to death by chainsaw, the trees are Asura's foes in my analogy. The buildin is the Earth, which has no predisposition to being killed by chainsaw. No doubt Asura can bust planets and stars N' what not, cuz he actually does it pretty easily, from what I hear. But he's not in the same form he's in when he's fightin Akuma.

You forget that the top tiers are leagues above the rest of the cast. And just like Akuma, they're top lvls aren't even hinted at, in the slightest.

This wouldn't be a problem if their fullest was, at least, implied to some degree. Debate with so lil to use as ammo should be impossible. People exclude certain characters from discussions all the time, for these same reasons. You're puttin him in a fight where he would lose in base form. But the thread is not limitin'im to base form and he has no canon feats oustide of his base form. But the nature of the thread clearly requires him to untie one of his hands to spur on any sort of discussion. That does not make sense. Why is this character in a debate (goin all out) with this type of foe in the 1st place? Why is he in debates with this type of character. . .all the time?

BloodRain
Asura has those cores infused inside him. I see no reason he couldn't use this power when he wishes like he did in-game.


And Im not positive, but he doesnt need to be above planetary strength to destroy that meteor. He'd only need to be strong enough to destroy a rock at that size.

No End N Site
That's not the issue I have. What matters to me is, are these cores of his own makin, did they generate from his body cuz he gained a new lvl of power? And does he have'em in this fight. From what I read, Asura dies at the end of the game, so clearly, the DLC fight takes place before he dies. That's all I wanna know.

I didn't say he needed planetary strength, I said he needed to be more powerful than the meteor. Way more powerful. It would be like shootin a speedin car, head on, and the bullet destroyin the car...and survivin the collision in the same state it was in before it was fired.

ares834
These episodes where he fights Ryu and Akuma are non-canon for Asura.

No End N Site
Sweet JC, the fight is non canon for Asura, too?! Well If the thread is not attemptin to replicate the conditions of the DLC fight to some degree and both characters are capable of usin everything at their disposal, not enough about Akuma is actually known to fight someone of this caliber and established story. Akuma's status locked to base form and thus there is no discussion. He loses.

The whole wormhole scenario seemed very convincin. I thought it was canon.

BloodRain
The cores were implanted, now they're standard equipment. Plot-wise this DLC would be between the end of the Yasha fight where he got the cores and him meditating before the final fight. So post core.

I'd think it would be more like a grenade hitting a speeding car. I mean he's overpowering the meteors body not its force, right?

ares834
Doesn't fit. First, if it was post core Asura's energy would be multiple colors not just red. Secondly and even more importantly, his fight with Akuma takes over 500 years... It doesn't fit at all within the timeline.

BloodRain
Only if Asura uses the cores. The window I said is where it would take place, after that and it splits into an alternate path.

stargun
Canon feats only Akuma wouldn't stand a chance against any of the former eight guardian generals. Even Wyzen who is the weakest among them was able to destroy a country sized object (Gohma Carrier) with a single blow. Not to mention also the absurd gap in speed...

That said, I wish human Asura would be in Street Fighter V.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by ares834
Here is the video:

pmVCkTyHmds

Moon busting is at about 12:45.


http://static1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Holy+shit+that+.gif+_eb587ae408f6975ba125899c15813289.gif

No End N Site
Originally posted by BloodRain


I'd think it would be more like a grenade hitting a speeding car. I mean he's overpowering the meteors body not its force, right?

Unfortunately the the grenade doesn't have to be fired at the car to do damage. You could pull the pin and roll it near the car, unlike the bullet that actually needs to come direct contact with the car, like Akuma.

I'm not understandin how you can destroy a meteor by crashin into it, and not deal with it's force. You'd have to survive the force to come into direct contact with it.

NemeBro
I don't have the energy to respond to your post at the moment, but I will note that No End is completely correct in this context.

To do any signifigant damage to an incoming object with only kinetic energy (A punch), one would have to overpower the force of the object as well.

BloodRain
Originally posted by No End N Site
Unfortunately the the grenade doesn't have to be fired at the car to do damage. You could pull the pin and roll it near the car, unlike the bullet that actually needs to come direct contact with the car, like Akuma.

I'm not understandin how you can destroy a meteor by crashin into it, and not deal with it's force. You'd have to survive the force to come into direct contact with it.
Think you're getting a bit too literal with the metaphor. A speeding car has 4x the energy of a grenade, the grenade can make the car stop by destroy it without matching its output.

The meteors DC can be what it is buts its dura is still that of a rock of its size. Im positive a bomb/nuke wouldnt need the meteors force in order to blow up the rock body.

No End N Site
Originally posted by BloodRain
Think you're getting a bit too literal with the metaphor. A speeding car has 4x the energy of a grenade, the grenade can make the car stop by destroy it without matching its output.

The meteors DC can be what it is buts its dura is still that of a rock of its size. Im positive a bomb/nuke wouldnt need the meteors force in order to blow up the rock body.

No. . .the car and the grenade are usin energies in 2 completely different ways. The grenade is not destroyin the car by smashin into it. . .Like Akuma.


Unfortunately, the laws of motion do not agree with yur statement, brah. Once an object starts in a certain direction, it requires an equal or greater force to stop it from movin. Its durability is not a factor, you'd have to come face to face with its "force" before you can think about touchin the rock. Blowin the rock up means stoppin the rock. You can't destroy the rock without stoppin it, even if yur doin both at the same time.


Even in the grenade analogy you used, the grenade would have to generate more force than the car does to stop it, which it does. I'm not really sure if I believe a grenade has 4x less energy than a speedin car, but if it does, it's very clear that the car is usin less of this energy than a grenade does to preform its physical duties, the rest of the car's energy is just "there" and is useless.

BloodRain
What energy it uses is not the point. The point is that the object can be destroyed by its own dura than by countering its force.

I don't think the laws consider blowing something up. And durability is a factor. In Rugby/Football a guy can hold his ground mostly stationary (500J) and stop a charging player (3,500J) even with the energy difference.
Akuma hits it with whatever he has that causes the eruption of pink energy that destroys it. More akin to explosive force than pure strength.

Grenades are at about 500kJ, a 50m/s car hits with 2500kJ.


Actually it doesnt really matter, this wouldnt even change Akuma's strength by a whole lot. The destruction force of a meteor like that is Mountain level, which Akuma is already around iirc.

No End N Site
Originally posted by BloodRain
What energy it uses is not the point. The point is that the object can be destroyed by its own dura than by countering its force.

I don't think the laws consider blowing something up. And durability is a factor. In Rugby/Football a guy can hold his ground mostly stationary (500J) and stop a charging player (3,500J) even with the energy difference.
Akuma hits it with whatever he has that causes the eruption of pink energy that destroys it. More akin to explosive force than pure strength.

Grenades are at about 500kJ, a 50m/s car hits with 2500kJ.


Actually it doesnt really matter, this wouldnt even change Akuma's strength by a whole lot. The destruction force of a meteor like that is Mountain level, which Akuma is already around iirc. It's not "what" energy is being used, it's how it is being used. The only way to stop a movin object is to apply an equal or greater (in the case of destroyin or repellin an object) force in a direction opposite of its motion. "Dura" is at the bottom of the totem pole when considerin the haltin and destruction of a movin object. Especially since the properties of any given object change when in motion. A Speedin meteor, the size of a large town, that can cause a global catastrophe is radically harder and denser in motion, than at rest. Mountain bustin won't cut it. This is 5th and 6th grade science. Unless you live in a different dimension or in a black hole, there is no way around this.

In the case of the Rugby/Football scenario, all I gotta say is, "Newton's 3rd law". Refresh your memory of it. It explains why the stationary object stops the movin object. And yes, the stationary object is still usin an equal and opposite force. I'm too lazy to start a physics class so that I can explain this further.

And I think you may be confused. Yur usin joules, which is the measurement of the energy used in applyin a force, not the measurement of the actual force, itself. In a debate with fictional characters and super powers the words "force" and "energy" are left as interchangeable terms, to me. But when it comes down to units of measure and actual physics, force and energy are not the same and are measured differently.

NemeBro
That meteor was the size of a small country.

Mountain level?

What?

ares834
That's not ture. And object in motion is in no way notiably more durable or denser unless it's going a ridiciliously fast speed. And this is due to the mass of the object of the increasing depending on its speed not Newton's third law.

To destroy an object one does not have to first overcome it's kinetic energy and match said objects force... That's complete bull shit. If you are merely knocking the object away or stopping it in its track you would. But destroying... nah. Consdier a bullet, if someone shoots me it doesn't matter if I'm running or not. The bullet's going to pass through me despite having a significantly lower kinetic energy. And truly, no matter how fast I'm going this bullet will go through me.

NemeBro
Akuma stopped the meteor with a punch when he destroyed it.

ares834
Did he actually stop it or did it just crumble and the pieces still fall to earth?

NemeBro
If that happened, everyone in a multiple thousand mile radius would have died.

No End N Site
Originally posted by ares834
That's not ture. And object in motion is in no way notiably more durable or denser unless it's going a ridiciliously fast speed.And this is due to the mass of the object of the increasing depending on its speed not Newton's third law.



Prove this. And I don't wanna hear what you think. Quote a certified physicist to disprove me and Mr.Newton. And the meteor is goin ridiculously fast. That's why I said what said. Clearly.

Originally posted by ares834
To destroy an object one does not have to first overcome it's kinetic energy and match said objects force... That's complete bull shit. If you are merely knocking the object away or stopping it in its track you would. But destroying... nah. Consdier a bullet, if someone shoots me it doesn't matter if I'm running or not. The bullet's going to pass through me despite having a significantly lower kinetic energy. And truly, no matter how fast I'm going this bullet will go through me.

Prove this. And I don't wanna hear what you think. Quote a certified physicist to disprove me and Mr.Newton.

And I never said anything about "overcomin" and then matchin. You have to match the force to stop it our outmatch it to destroy it. That is a fact.

1. Bullets don't always go thru people. Sometimes...they get stuck there. Wonder why that is...hmmmm

2. I'm not gonna go into considerable detail about why you are wrong about the bullet other than to say, like Bloodrain, you are measurin the wrong things in yur analogy.

Force is not energy.
Any energy is a product of force.

ares834
True. But typically, movie, video games, and comics don't care about stuff like that. I mean there are tons of examples of it happening like Armageedon or when Supergirl destroy a comet in S:TAS.

No End N Site
Found somethin useful. If you're havin trouble undestandin the difference between force and kenetic energy, this is a must read.

http://www.cliffsnotes.com/study_guide/Work-and-Energy.topicArticleId-10453,articleId-10418.html

ares834
Well here is the thing, prior to the collision the forces aren't what matter it's the kinetic energy. The forces come into play durign and after the collision, these are called collision forces and include "fun" things like impact force. However, once again these are, usually, dependents on the kinetic energy of the objects not the force prior to collision. In fact, I'd assume that the meteor would have a negative acceleration as it's likely going faster than terminal velocity.

ares834
Originally posted by No End N Site
Prove this. And I don't wanna hear what you think. Quote a certified physicist to disprove me and Mr.Newton. And the meteor is goin ridiculously fast. That's why I said what said. Clearly.

Proove what? lol. Durability does not go up as force goes up. lol. Not a single law of Newton's says that. And, as I just said the meteor should have a negative force... And I doubt the meteor is going fast enough for the mass increase to have any notiable effect. That requires it to be going at a speed near that of light. I mean even if was going at a fifth the speed of light then it's mass increase would only be abou 2%...



Luckily Mr. Newton never once said what you are claming.



No it's not. To destroy an object one must not need to overcome the force. But to repell it, yes.



Because it didn't have sufficent energy to pierce through...



Sure. But it's energy that's used in collisions prior to the actual collision. Afterall, the bullet in my analagy has a negative force due to air resistance. The same holds true with your meteor.

No End N Site
Originally posted by ares834
Well here is the thing, prior to the collision the forces aren't what matter it's the kinetic energy. The forces come into play durign and after the collision, these are called collision forces and include "fun" things like impact force. However, once again these are, usually, dependents on the kinetic energy of the objects not the force prior to collision. In fact, I'd assume that the meteor would have a negative acceleration as it's likely going faster than terminal velocity.

For the most part, I agree and yur view is understandable.

However, Akuma and the meteor's kinetic energies become virtual non factors cuz Akuma is not a meteor, he is not the same size, he has not traveled for the same amount of time, length, and he is not made out of the same things. The way in which the meteor and Akuma generate the same force will be different and will require different amounts energy. Either way, the amount of force will be, either equal or greater. A human punch has more kenetic energy than a bullet, but the bullet still hits with greater force, cuz what kinetic energy the bullet does have is focused in a much smaller point and is transfered into the recievin object, almost, 100%, unlike the punch.

No End N Site
Originally posted by ares834
Proove what? lol. Durability does not go up as force goes up. lol. Not a single law of Newton's says that. And, as I just said the meteor should have a negative force... And I doubt the meteor is going fast enough for the mass increase to have any notiable effect. That requires it to be going at a speed near that of light. I mean even if was going at a fifth the speed of light then it's mass increase would only be abou 2%...

I never stated Newton said that. I said, Newton stated, "The velocity of a body remains constant unless the body is acted upon by an external force. The acceleration a of a body is parallel and directly proportional to the net force and inversely proportional to the mass. The mutual forces of action and reaction between two bodies are equal, opposite and collinear." The fact that an object's durability goes up as it accelerates at ridiculous speeds should be common sense. You shouldn't need help commin to that conclusion. The force required to destroy a giant rock will be far from equal as destryoin the same rock at 1/5 the speed of light.

And even a 1% increase in the mass of an object that strikes with the force to replicate 1 billion atomic bombs is considerable. It should be noted that I never stated the meteor in question is movin at anywhere near the speed of light, thus there is no major increase in mass. I was simply illustratin that the properties of objects change when in motion.


Originally posted by ares834
No it's not. To destroy an object one must not need to overcome the force. But to repell it, yes.

This is not true for a movin object. If you obliterate somethin in motion, you stopped it. laughing out loud



Originally posted by ares834
Because it didn't have sufficent energy to pierce through...

Clearly, but you spoke as if all bullets pierce thru and exit flesh...

Originally posted by ares834
Sure. But it's energy that's used in collisions prior to the actual collision. Afterall, the bullet in my analagy has a negative force due to air resistance. The same holds true with your meteor.

I explained this in my last post. And Akuma jumped into space to crush the meteor. Their is no air resistance in space. Infact all resistance is actually against Akuma and he still clashed with the meteor and destroyed it.

BloodRain
Originally posted by No End N Site
It's not "what" energy is being used, it's how it is being used. The only way to stop a movin object is to apply an equal or greater (in the case of destroyin or repellin an object) force in a direction opposite of its motion. "Dura" is at the bottom of the totem pole when considerin the haltin and destruction of a movin object. Especially since the properties of any given object change when in motion. A Speedin meteor, the size of a large town, that can cause a global catastrophe is radically harder and denser in motion, than at rest. Mountain bustin won't cut it. This is 5th and 6th grade science. Unless you live in a different dimension or in a black hole, there is no way around this.

In the case of the Rugby/Football scenario, all I gotta say is, "Newton's 3rd law". Refresh your memory of it. It explains why the stationary object stops the movin object. And yes, the stationary object is still usin an equal and opposite force. I'm too lazy to start a physics class so that I can explain this further.

And I think you may be confused. Yur usin joules, which is the measurement of the energy used in applyin a force, not the measurement of the actual force, itself. In a debate with fictional characters and super powers the words "force" and "energy" are left as interchangeable terms, to me. But when it comes down to units of measure and actual physics, force and energy are not the same and are measured differently.

So if they sent a hypothetical, mountain-level nuke that explodes upon hitting the meteor, nothing would happen to it? Equal&Opposite reaction if it does would explain this point as much as it covers Akuma and the meteor. Both unequal forces, both the same result. The pink energy ruptures the rock, its not a basic punch.

Can use the joules for the energy of the moving bodies or the Newtons of the their force, but both are higher for the car.

Originally posted by NemeBro
That meteor was the size of a small country.

Mountain level?

What?

Top right. Its 2į from Earth level, and if it just started burning up it'd be 100km away. Makes the meteor 3.5km wide, length is double that for 7km. Snugly in the Mountain range.

No End N Site
My bad for leavin this hangin but I been a bit of a busy bee as of late. Soooooo yeah,


A nuke is virtually useless when being shot at an extinction class meteor. A nuke thats power's beyond what any country has revealed might break off a piece, maybe even slow it down, slightly. But blow it up to a point where its pieces will cease upon contact with the_atmosphere? That's a negative.

Here's a link providing proof of this...
http://science.howstuffworks.com/asteroid-nuclear-bomb.htm

Akuma is also using chi. Chi is an extension of physical and spiritual force which is why Ryu's Hadouken feels like a "solid kick" and not a laser blast or a fire ball. So when Akuma clashes with the meteor he's just smashing it with all his physical might. He is digging down deeper to generate more force than any human possibly could. The purple light is just a sign of that incredible force.

ares834
Yes, Nemebro already brought that up. However, this is where one must realize physics and video games or movies don't collide. The reason the nuke doesn't stop the asteroid isn't because it's more durable, after all it still shatters it, but rather that the shattered pieces would still crash into the Earth and cause as much if not more damage than the full asteroid.

Now it's possible that Akuma punched hard enough to shattered and repelled it, in which case you were right, but if he merely shattered it then the pieces still fell to earth then you would be wrong. Sure, you can say "but then the Earth would still be devastatedĒ but I would point out that almost all forms of media ignore this like in the movie Armageddon or Superman: TAS.

No End N Site
Our most powerful bomb "might cause great hunks of an extinction class meteor to break off, at the most". That's not destroyin the meteor. That's not Stopping the meteor.

The most powerful bomb we could possibly make, at this point, would most likely cause it to fracture into several pieces, large pieces of an even larger asteroid. That's not "shattering" or Stopping the meteor.

To obliterate/shatter/destroy = stop the movin object in its tracks, you must counter it's force before you can even worry about how durable it is. There is literally, no way around this. You can not destroy a movin object without stoppin it.

ares834
Yes, you can. The reason it's not blowing it into smitherieens is because the asteroid is gigantic in the post it says around 400 meters not because it's moving. A nuke doesn't reduce solid rock to rubble like that. If you can actually post something that directly states something that directly states durabilty is increased when an object is in movement I'll believe it. But until then, not at all.

Edit: And no when you shatter an object you don't have to stop it. Ever hit a thrown egg or water balloon with a baseball bat? The water/egg juice keeps moving.

Edit 2: Hell object's can break up in atmospheric reentry, yet clearly they don't need to be stopped.

No End N Site
BR said a nuke would destroy an EX meteor. I posted clear evidence that even our greatest weapon would to fail destroy the average EX meteor. And o'course the rock is gigantic, it's gonna wipe out mankind. The one that killed the dinos is way bigger than 400 meters. And I don't need to post anything to prove my point. You are tryin to refute a very basic law of physics.laughing out loud I mean seriously, this is as easy as askin yurself, what's more "durable", a 50 cal lead-bullet or a half foot of concrete?...The damn Concrete. But when the 50 cal is in motion from being fired with enough force...Leik really, c'mon. Some bullets break on impact with water, is a lake of water more durable than a 22 caliber bullet? Durability of anything is not the major factor in obliteratin a giant asteroid with'ya bare hands.

If the yolk/water is still movin...then clearly, you did not stop the object, let alone destroy it completely.

If the object does not dissipate in reentry before it touches the ground, obviously reentry didn't stop it or destroy it.

ares834
No it's not a basic law of physics, not one of them states an object's momentum must be stopped for it to be destroyed. And yes, the bullet is "more durable" than concrete as metal is significantly harder than concrete. And hell, your bullet breaking up in water example shows an object breaking up before it's stopped. It's the sudden deceleration/sudden force exerted on the object that breaks it.

Secondly, I did not say I stopped the egg/water balloon but merely destroyed it. And to destroy an object one does not need to erase it from existence or vaporize it. When a demolition crew destroys a building it isn't vaporized.

No End N Site
It does! An object in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by an equal or greater opposite force. If the object is shattered into tiny pieces and its pieces eventually stop or go off in opposite directions, it is stopped. I'm not gonna argue semantics about the word shattered or destroyed. To do what Akuma did, you would have to overcome the force of the meteor. The object should not be movin if it's completely destroyed. I'm leavin it at that.

Metal is harder than concrete, sure. But a half inch of lead is not more durable than 6"s of concrete. And the bullet STOPS (even if it's for a split second), shatters, scatters in the opposite direction, and then falls into the water. The same force that fires the bullet is not the same force that continues its decent into water. The force that fires the bullet has been met and overcome. Gravity takes control of the aftermath.

This is one of those things where you will never get the exact words you are lookin for, cuz this is somethin no one on Earth has tried to refute...until now.

ares834
Originally posted by No End N Site
It does! An object in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by an equal or greater opposite force. If the object is shattered into tiny pieces and its pieces eventually stop or go off in opposite directions, it is stopped. I'm not gonna argue semantics about the word shattered or destroyed. To do what Akuma did, you would have to overcome the force of the meteor. I'm leavin it at that.

This is true, if the pieces stop or go flying in the other direction! I have yet to see evidence that they do in this case rather than simply shatter but continue to fall toward to Earth.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Metal is harder than concrete, sure. But a half inch of lead is not more durable than 6"s of concrete. And the bullet STOPS, shatters, scatters in the opposite direction, and then falls into the water. The same force the fires the bullet is not the same force that continues its decent into water. The force that fires the bullet has been met and overcome. Gravity takes control of the aftermath.

Breaking concrete is actually quite easy, I've done it numerous times with a sledge hammer. Breaking and not merely deforming a bullet it is significantly more difficult.

And no, the bullet breaks upon contact with the water and at that point the bullet's momentum has not been met or overcome as it continues upon it's same trajectory for several meters. In fact, the idea that it breaks once it's momentum has stopped makes no sense as it would be experiencing very little forces then. It's when it first contacts the water, when it's velocity is greatest, that the forces the bullet expirences are greatest.



No one has tried to refute it because no one has ever stated such nonsense. On object can be destroyed while it's motion. It does not need to be stopped first.

No End N Site
The meteor has clearly been stopped by Akuma in the scan...

Again, continuin to go on about the concrete while forgettin the sheer amount being brought up. Anything less than a 50 cal will break half way through a 6 inch wall.

What you said about the water, is not destroyin the bullet, it is only breakin it. An object whose purpose is to move is not trully destroyed unless it is broken out of existence or ceases to function, completly.

Lmao You have a very silly definition of "destroy". If an object in pieces behaves as it does when whole, it is not destroyed. When things like google exist, I refuse to argue about the meaning of words beyond this.

ares834
Originally posted by No End N Site
The meteor has clearly been stopped by Akuma in the scan...

In that case can I see the scan?

Originally posted by No End N Site
Lmao You have a very silly definition of "destroy". If an object in pieces behaves as it does when whole, it is not destroyed. When things like google exist, I refuse to argue about the meaning of words beyond this.

When someone mentions something is destroyed I usually take it to be broken apart and not reduced to nothingness. For example, when I say "I destroyed a rock" I merely mean I broke it apart not reduced it to dust. I take "destroy a meteor" the same way.

No End N Site
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120414005151/streetfighter/images/b/b0/God_Akuma_CFE_Ending.jpg

He stops the meteor dead, as it's now polverized.

Drunkard Kid
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that Akuma Meteor scene from the extremely overpowered Udon comics, which has absolutely nothing to do with the actual Capcom continuity other than having licensing rights? IIRC, didn't the Udon King of Fighters comics have Iori Yagami set the atmosphere on fire with one of his techs?

I mean, by that same logic Akuma can be beaten by Phoenix Wright, who can go on to defeat high end cosmic beings like Dormmamu, Dark Phoenix, Shuma Gorath, Galactus and Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet by accusing them of murder. Heck, Karin's family somehow having an orbital laser that can destroy Bison's underground bunker at a call from her is more canon than that, as it actually happened in a possible (and hopefully not anywhere near serious) ending for one of the Alpha games.

In Asura's Wrath's completely non-canon DLC, base Ryu managed to harm a guy that can tank orbital reentry and fist fights with things that measure in the thousands of meters and wasn't seriously hurt from being punched all the way to the moon, Akuma was able to punch Ryu into space and create a wormhole and in Oni form the fight against Asura caused the moon to get shattered and the two of them to land on Earth. Also, both humans can breathe in space and for some reason Akuma is able to turn into stone for 500 years and return to life despite not being semi-divine cyborgs who did that repeatedly throughout their game like Asura was.

In terms of main continuity, Akuma/Gouki/Oni and Ryu/Evil Ryu don't even begin to approach the strength that base Asura has except MAAAAYBE with their most powerful super attacks, and definitely nowhere near the speed, agility, durability or experience (Asura was an adult of a species that doesn't seem to age appreciably over a period of 12,500 years and earned the rank of divine general during a millenia-spanning war and was trained by a guy at least as fight hungry as Akuma; he is literally orders of magnitude older than everyone in Street Fighter combined and has been fighting for most of that time). And Asura's stronger forms make his base form look like a pansy.

The DLC was just some fanservice for Capcom's de facto mascot(s), and was fine for what it was, even though I wish they'd done something more interesting with it than just put some tweaks on the Augus (Asura's aforementioned master) fight. It is not canon and definitely not representative of the Street Fighter cast's level or Asura's limits. In an actual fight, Asura would punch the SF cast into bloody stains six countries over before they can charge up their ultimate attacks (ie: the only things that could possibly harm his base form).

Drunkard Kid
Also, for what its worth, if you just break the meteor the increased surface area would mean that more of it gets burned up on re-entry. If you break it into small enough chunks, then most or even all of it may be burned away.

No End N Site
Originally posted by Drunkard Kid
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that Akuma Meteor scene from the extremely overpowered Udon comics, which has absolutely nothing to do with the actual Capcom continuity other than having licensing rights? IIRC, didn't the Udon King of Fighters comics have Iori Yagami set the atmosphere on fire with one of his techs?

UDON is actually quite famous for accurately portrayin SF and DS characters quite well. As such, while CFE is not canon (far from it, so I wont argue for the feats being canon) none of the feats in that game are "over powered". Infact, the game actually presents canon information, not yet introduced to US shores.

Originally posted by Drunkard Kid
I mean, by that same logic Akuma can be beaten by Phoenix Wright, who can go on to defeat high end cosmic beings like Dormmamu, Dark Phoenix, Shuma Gorath, Galactus and Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet by accusing them of murder. Heck, Karin's family somehow having an orbital laser that can destroy Bison's underground bunker at a call from her is more canon than that, as it actually happened in a possible (and hopefully not anywhere near serious) ending for one of the Alpha games.

Your logic does not apply. MVC is a multi-comapny crossover stated to take place in completely separate universes. CFE is an all Capcom production and is presented as a "what if", these characters ever met? This is further proven by the fact that all of the featured character's previous canons are left intact and are referenced quite often in the game, unlike MVC.


Originally posted by Drunkard Kid In terms of main continuity, Akuma/Gouki/Oni Evil Ryu don't even begin to approach the strength that base Asura has except MAAAAYBE with their most powerful super attacks

So you've seen Evil Ryu and Oni fight in canon? Pleez show me where you saw this. I've been waitin ages to see Evil Ryu and even Shin Akuma fight someone in canon. I'm glade someone's finally found somethin showin these characters in action.

Originally posted by Drunkard Kid Akuma; he is literally orders of magnitude older than everyone in Street Fighter combined and has been fighting for most of that time.
Wrong again. Your quoted above this statement is laughably false? He's not even older than Ryu and Ken combined, and there are a slew of characters older (way older) than Akuma. Infact, all but 1 of his peers in power is older than him, that being Bison. And hell, even Bison could be older than Akuma. Even Gill, in reality is twice as old as Akuma, at least.

ares834
Umm... He was saying Asura is older than every one in SF...

No End N Site
Was he? Oh my bad. Everything else he said tho, needed to be corrected. And I don't even know if Asura is older than "everyone" in SF, since Ingrid's age is not known, and is even further scewed by the fact that she's a time traveler.

Bro SMASH
Ingrid is likely not even canon.

No End N Site
Unfortunately, no. Accordin to Cap USA, she might (I say "might" cuz even tho she is stated to be, I refuse to accept it cuz it's retarded) actually be canon. And even still, she is further stated to be an actual SF character who could potentially appear again...and she does, unfortunately.

So in a general statement about the entire cast of SF, she damn well should be included...if you know yur shit.

Drunkard Kid
Originally posted by No End N Site
UDON is actually quite famous for accurately portrayin SF and DS characters quite well. As such, while CFE is not canon (far from it, so I wont argue for the feats being canon) none of the feats in that game are "over powered". Infact, the game actually presents canon information, not yet introduced to US shores.
If SF characters are fighting the top tier of Darkstalkers, then either one side was seriously depowered or the other side was seriously powered up.

CFE is about as logical as MVC since its basically fanservice of a bunch of characters that don't exist in the same universe as each other or on the same level of power as one another going around and punching each other in the face. It includes the likes of Dan/Sakura/Ryu/etc... fighting off against the Darkstalkers cast which includes Pyron, aka, Mr. Walking Sun Who Wears Planets As Rings In His Ending. It's about as indicative of canon feats as pretty much any other crossover game, which is to say not at all since they couldn't hope to sell a game where fan favorites end up being horribly murdered by ancient space monsters. Just because one company owns all the properties being crossed over, or even if there's some sort of story behind it all, doesn't mean that the characters are all at their original power levels. Look at Final Fantasy Dissidia, which has the likes of Sephiroth being considered peers of people like ExDeath, Kefka and Kuja despite having never having the opportunity to reach their level in the game (seeing as how his feats were much lower and he was stopped before he could achieve his ultimate form, which is pretty much unheard of in Final Fantasy).

Heck, the Asura's Wrath DLC is an intra-company crossover that starts with Ryu just walking out of a portal and challenging Asura (who should right now be too busy fighting a one man war against those who have betrayed him, stole his daughter, and are abusing humanity) to a fight. And has base Ryu surviving being punched to the moon and both base Ryu and Akuma being able to breath on the moon. And Akuma somehow being turned to stone and fighting on 500 years later without being a divinely powered cyborg who did that repeatedly throughout the game.

Actually, let's go back to that for a second: BASE Ryu (the guy who canonically lost against both Sakura and Ken during SF Alpha -admittedly, due to not focusing- if the headband swaps are canon, which it looks like they are going by the various costumes, IIRC) took an uppercut that ended with him being smashed into the moon, and survived mostly unharmed. That alone should show how insanely their power levels have been jacked up; unless there's some evidence that Ryu is a million times more powerful than anyone else in SF, and that using the Satsui no Hadou multiplies your power a thousandfold, then everything he and Akuma did are insanely out of line for anything they actually have feats for.

Ryu carved Sagat's chest open when he gave into the Satsui no Hadou and hit him with a full out (Shin?) Shoryuken while his guard was down, and, IIRC, did not launch him into the sun. Also he went full out evil and started smacking down C. Viper in the canon prequel for SFIV, and while he was overwhelmingly powerful for the normal SF power levels, he wasn't leveling the country they were standing in or traveling at hypersonic speeds.

IIRC, Canonically Gouki went full out against Gouken and Gen off screen, who while impressive, weren't in the moon-shattering tier by any measure. IIRC, Shin Oni suggests that Cody might be on his tier if he ever went full out.




Yeah, its already been noted that I was talking about Asura, but, Gods above, I will never forgive you for reminding me about Ingrid.

Geez, yeah she might be a billion trillion years old and spent all that time beating up Yahweh, Zeus, and Vishnu for their cosmic lunch money until she went back in time to the future to marry Ryu and Ken's kid and have a baby which turns out to be herself who then goes on to marry Draco Malfoy, or something equally ridiculous.

So let me correct myself: barring characters of unknown age that have pretty much zero actual impact on the main canon and seem like they fell out of some horrible fanfic, Asura is at least 2 orders of magnitude older than everyone else in the SF canon combined and spent most of that time fighting against highly skilled warriors and the stone and lava monsters formed from the Wrath of the Earth itself.

Bro SMASH
Originally posted by No End N Site
Unfortunately, no. Accordin to Cap USA, she might (I say "might" cuz even tho she is stated to be, I refuse to accept it cuz it's retarded) actually be canon. And even still, she is further stated to be an actual SF character who could potentially appear again...and she does, unfortunately.

She hadn't made any other SF appearance besides Alpha 3. Unless you wanna count that SFxT comic, which is also non-canon.

Originally posted by No End N Site
So in a general statement about the entire cast of SF, she damn well should be included...if you know yur shit.

I really see no reason to.

stargun
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
She hadn't made any other SF appearance besides Alpha 3. Except Alpha 3 IS canon.

Bro SMASH
Originally posted by stargun
Except Alpha 3 IS canon.

That doesn't mean her appearance is canon.

stargun
Unless word of god says otherwise yes it does. Ingrid's every bit as canon as R. Mika and Karin, both of which have only been in Alpha 3 just like her.

No End N Site
Originally posted by Drunkard Kid
If SF characters are fighting the top tier of Darkstalkers, then either one side was seriously depowered or the other side was seriously powered up.

1. DS top tiers are notorious for holdin back.

2. Besides Rose, what SF character actually fought a DS in that game's story?

3. Beatin other characters is not a show of strength or a feat, it's a plot detail. It doesn't discredit any feat shown in the game.

Originally posted by Drunkard Kid
CFE is about as logical as MVC since its basically fanservice of a bunch of characters that don't exist in the same universe as each other or on the same level of power as one another going around and punching each other in the face. It includes the likes of Dan/Sakura/Ryu/etc... fighting off against the Darkstalkers cast which includes Pyron, aka, Mr. Walking Sun Who Wears Planets As Rings In His Ending. It's about as indicative of canon feats as pretty much any other crossover game, which is to say not at all since they couldn't hope to sell a game where fan favorites end up being horribly murdered by ancient space monsters. Just because one company owns all the properties being crossed over, or even if there's some sort of story behind it all, doesn't mean that the characters are all at their original power levels. Look at Final Fantasy Dissidia, which has the likes of Sephiroth being considered peers of people like ExDeath, Kefka and Kuja despite having never having the opportunity to reach their level in the game (seeing as how his feats were much lower and he was stopped before he could achieve his ultimate form, which is pretty much unheard of in Final Fantasy).

laughing out loudA wall of text that completely ignores what I told you. To make things worse, respondin to it would require me to repeat myself. Not gonna do it.

Originally posted by Drunkard Kid Heck, the Asura's Wrath DLC is an intra-company crossover that starts with Ryu just walking out of a portal and challenging Asura (who should right now be too busy fighting a one man war against those who have betrayed him, stole his daughter, and are abusing humanity) to a fight. And has base Ryu surviving being punched to the moon and both base Ryu and Akuma being able to breath on the moon. And Akuma somehow being turned to stone and fighting on 500 years later without being a divinely powered cyborg who did that repeatedly throughout the game.

That crossover does not behave in the same way CFJ does. To explain this would require me to, again repeat myself, since you ignored my previous simple statement. Not gonna do it.

Originally posted by Drunkard Kid
Actually, let's go back to that for a second: BASE Ryu (the guy who canonically lost against both Sakura and Ken during SF Alpha -admittedly, due to not focusing- if the headband swaps are canon, which it looks like they are going by the various costumes, IIRC) took an uppercut that ended with him being smashed into the moon, and survived mostly unharmed. That alone should show how insanely their power levels have been jacked up; unless there's some evidence that Ryu is a million times more powerful than anyone else in SF, and that using the Satsui no Hadou multiplies your power a thousandfold, then everything he and Akuma did are insanely out of line for anything they actually have feats for.

The above statement is actually so ridiculous that it deserves a nasty insult, but I wont do it.

The same series you refer to has Ryu in his early to mid 20s (over 10 years before his current form), tankin island smashin punches in a fight with Akuma. The same series you refer to has Ryu one shots an opponent who reduces cities like Hong Kong, to dust on a whim. I'm not arguin that Ryu can tank a punch to the moon (idk that, Ryu's current lvl of power is unknown) but basin the fact that he can't off of a very old set of prequel games is...well...it's just stupid.

Originally posted by Drunkard Kid
Ryu carved Sagat's chest open when he gave into the Satsui no Hadou and hit him with a full out (Shin?) Shoryuken while his guard was down, and, IIRC, did not launch him into the sun. Also he went full out evil and started smacking down C. Viper in the canon prequel for SFIV, and while he was overwhelmingly powerful for the normal SF power levels, he wasn't leveling the country they were standing in or traveling at hypersonic speeds.

Ryu didn't turn into Evil Ryu when he fought Sagat and he didn't go Evil Ryu when he fought Viper. He used a very lil bit of the SNH and when he fought Sagat, Ryu may have been still in his teens. Do you even know what Evil Ryu looks like?

Originally posted by Drunkard Kid
IIRC, Canonically Gouki went full out against Gouken and Gen off screen, who while impressive, weren't in the moon-shattering tier by any measure. IIRC, Shin Oni suggests that Cody might be on his tier if he ever went full out.
laughing laughing out loud rolling on floor laughing This is ridiculous.

Another statement well worth its wait in ridicule. The events you mentioned took place before even SFI. All, except Gen were much weaker than they are now. Akuma didn't even have a "Shin" form at that point. And Gen doesn't need moon smashin when he can kill you with a touch.


Originally posted by Drunkard Kid
So let me correct myself: barring characters of unknown age that have pretty much zero actual impact on the main canon

Oh she had alotta impact...You seem like a decent guy but if you aint gonna check yur facts before you post'em, I'm gonna ignore you from here on out.

DEUCES!!

__________________________________________________
________________

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
She hadn't made any other SF appearance besides Alpha 3. Unless you wanna count that SFxT comic, which is also non-canon.

SFxT counts as an appearance. It shows Ingrid has not been forgotten, she's still a SF character.



Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I really see no reason to.

Capcom USA (the people who own SF) said, if a character appears, regularly selectable in a main SF game, they were there. It sounds stupid but that's word of God. So you may see no reason to, but you'd be factually incorrect in doin so.

No End N Site
Originally posted by stargun
Unless word of god says otherwise yes it does. Ingrid's every bit as canon as R. Mika and Karin, both of which have only been in Alpha 3 just like her.

Hell, what about Eagle and Maki? Were they not in SFA3? Now I agree it's totally stupid for Yun (absolutely nonsensical) and Ingrid to be their. But hey, it is what it is.

Drunkard Kid
Originally posted by No End N Site
1. DS top tiers are notorious for holdin back.

2. Besides Rose, what SF character actually fought a DS in that game's story?

3. Beatin other characters is not a show of strength or a feat, it's a plot detail. It doesn't discredit any feat shown in the game.



laughing out loudA wall of text that completely ignores what I told you. To make things worse, respondin to it would require me to repeat myself. Not gonna do it.



That crossover does not behave in the same way CFJ does. To explain this would require me to, again repeat myself, since you ignored my previous simple statement. Not gonna do it.



The above statement is actually so ridiculous that it deserves a nasty insult, but I wont do it.



Very well. How about "CFE is a non-canon What If crossover with no viable feats except that they reference events that happened in their own crossover timeline that we never saw, and therefore mentioning it or bringing up a feats that happened in an ending that probably wasn't even the canon one (assuming that there is even a canon ending) and is lightyears beyond anything that any character in his own timeline has ever even come close to beginning to conceive of approaching is a disingenuous distraction at best?"



Island smashing punches from whom? Akuma, who sank his own mysterious island that seemed to be linked to him somehow after fighting Ryu and drastically holding back the entire time to test him out? The same Ryu who Akuma told would find that the fights up to then would be child's play once he mastered the Satsui no Hadou? The same Ryu who, when Akuma punched the ground and caused a relatively small explosion was to basically go "What the hell is happening?" before the island "disappeared" along with Akuma's presence? The same Ryu that, in Oro's ending, was shown straining while holding up a boulder the size of a van during the ending of SFIII (as well as Oro, who was sitting on top of the boulder and casually balancing a significantly smaller boulder on his finger tips), the most recent SF in canon?

And did Ryu ever actually get hit by the attack that vaporizes Hong Kong, or did the person who did that move have any indication that his durability is anywhere in the same region as that? Cause if you're referring to SFA Bison, in his ending he blew up that city by draining Ryu's ki (or that of anyone who lost against him in their bad endings, IIRC) and running it through his Psycho Drive and using it to fuel an orbital laser, while in Ryu's ending, Bison tried to possess Ryu and Ryu fought off the corruption and uppercut Bison's empty body which caused him to explode... just like what happens when pretty much anyone beats Bison? Dude was basically a hand grenade filled pinata in that way.

Are you gonna claim that Karin is a city buster who can beat someone with Hong Kong razing power because she ordered an orbital strike on Bison's facilities with him in them in what was hopefully a joke ending?

In any case, though, Even if Ryu or Akuma are somehow durable enough to tank a punch to the moon, they doesn't have any way of returning or breathing in space, so the much faster Asura wins by default.

SFA's Evil Ryu ending was pretty clear that Ryu had turned to Evil Ryu at the time that he'd scarred Sagat. Even though its not the canon ending, it probably counts as canon info since its referencing something that happened before the game, and that the retcon is consistent with the rest of the series. As for what he looked like, SFIV's Evil Ryu changed his character design from SFA's but its the same character.


The heck? "Shin" Akuma isn't a separate form, its the designation for when Akuma isn't holding back (before that Oni thing came along which is when Akuma releases his morals and Shin Oni which is when Oni pushes past the last fragments of Akuma's resistance). It's his natural state, when he's not just testing someone out. Is there any indication that Akuma, the guy who had mastered his art decades ago and rarely ever finds anyone worth fighting, got any stronger at all during the series? EDIT: Removed Gen line because I misunderstood your statement. My bad.

And fortunately, Asura is well more than strong enough to kill Akuma with a touch, especially if he's unfortunate enough to fight Vajra or Mantra Asura, like he was in that DLC. Assuming he doesn't choose to just destroy him from a distance with a machine gun hail of attacks that can hit blow up massive space ships/armadas tens/hundreds of miles away almost instantly.
Her impact was that she was allegedly stronger than Bison/Rose, which wasn't carried out by feats, that she was the source of the Psycho Power, which was never mentioned again in any SF game after Alpha III, and her ending isn't even canon since it would involve taking away a statue that was there for all subsequent games. So yeah, no affect on actual canon, and no one in the series references her except in SFvsT, which is also not canon.

Also, fun fact: In the epilogue of Asura's Wrath, FULLY HUMAN Asura sees a meteor about to hit the city and runs forward to catch it, though the game ends there wihtout showing what happens next.

Bro SMASH
Originally posted by stargun
Unless word of god says otherwise yes it does. Ingrid's every bit as canon as R. Mika and Karin, both of which have only been in Alpha 3 just like her.

Just simply appearing in SF doesn't mean it was a canon appearance. That goes for plenty of fighting games. Plus, Ingrid was added in a much later upgrade, while R. Mika and Karin have been there since the first version. They were meant to be there from the beginning, unlike Ingrid.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Capcom USA (the people who own SF) said, if a character appears,
regularly selectable in a main SF game, they were there. It sounds stupid but that's word of God. So you may see no reason to, but you'd be factually incorrect in doin so.

Not really. They likely weren't referring to Ingrid when they said that because remember, Yun was in that game. But both of them were added long after the canon events of the game was complete.

Of course, I'm not disputing over rather or not she's a SF character but even if she is, she still may not be part of the canon storyline.

No End N Site
Yeah, I'm not gonna waste the time givin you long drawn out responses since you refuse to check the shit you slap up here; so that you can be better armed for a proper debate.

Originally posted by Drunkard Kid
Very well. How about "CFE is a non-canon What If crossover with no viable feats except that they reference events that happened in their own crossover timeline that we never saw, and therefore mentioning it or bringing up a feats that happened in an ending that probably wasn't even the canon one (assuming that there is even a canon ending) and is lightyears beyond anything that any character in his own timeline has ever even come close to beginning to conceive of approaching is a disingenuous distraction at best?"

Wrong. You are either ignorin me or not understandin what's being told to you.



Originally posted by Drunkard Kid
Island smashing punches from whom? Akuma, who sank his own mysterious island that seemed to be linked to him somehow after fighting Ryu and drastically holding back the entire time to test him out? The same Ryu who Akuma told would find that the fights up to then would be child's play once he mastered the Satsui no Hadou? The same Ryu who, when Akuma punched the ground and caused a relatively small explosion was to basically go "What the hell is happening?" before the island "disappeared" along with Akuma's presence? The same Ryu that, in Oro's ending, was shown straining while holding up a boulder the size of a van during the ending of SFIII (as well as Oro, who was sitting on top of the boulder and casually balancing a significantly smaller boulder on his finger tips), the most recent SF in canon?

Wrong again. Akuma blows the island up with a punch, you can see the pieces rain down on Ryu in his ending. Akuma was holdin back by not goin Shin, unless you wanna make the silly claim he was holdin back while holdin back. laughing out loud

SFIII Ryu is as powerful as SFIII Shin Akuma. A huge jump in power lvls since SFA. So judgin what Ryu can and can't take based on SFA is, again, stupid. My advice, don't do it

Originally posted by Drunkard Kid
And did Ryu ever actually get hit by the attack that vaporizes Hong Kong, or did the person who did that move have any indication that his durability is anywhere in the same region as that? Cause if you're referring to SFA Bison, in his ending he blew up that city by draining Ryu's ki (or that of anyone who lost against him in their bad endings, IIRC) and running it through his Psycho Drive and using it to fuel an orbital laser, while in Ryu's ending, Bison tried to possess Ryu and Ryu fought off the corruption and uppercut Bison's empty body which caused him to explode... just like what happens when pretty much anyone beats Bison? Dude was basically a hand grenade filled pinata in that way.

Are you gonna claim that Karin is a city buster who can beat someone with Hong Kong razing power because she ordered an orbital strike on Bison's facilities with him in them in what was hopefully a joke ending?

Clearly, you haven't done a lick of research. The P.Drive shoots Psycho Power. laughing out loud Bison wields Psycho Power. There is literally no reason to assume he can't replicate,at his fullest, what he was able to do with his own power, havin a single person in the Drive. Especially since the P.Drive is shown blowin up Hong Kong with no one in it, in several endings. The victim in the P.Drive is needed cuz his body can't handle 6 billion somethin souls fuelin his power. The city bustin is Bison usin the power of 1 person to fuel his Psycho power. Possessin the body of Ryu or Cammy would allow Bison to wield the entire world supply. And by your own statements, SFA3 Ryu has the power to blow up cities, which is the same as him fightin someone who can blow up cities. lmao

Originally posted by Drunkard Kid
SFA's Evil Ryu ending was pretty clear that Ryu had turned to Evil Ryu at the time that he'd scarred Sagat. Even though its not the canon ending, it probably counts as canon info since its referencing something that happened before the game, and that the retcon is consistent with the rest of the series. As for what he looked like, SFIV's Evil Ryu changed his character design from SFA's but its the same character.

No.



Originally posted by Drunkard Kid
The heck? "Shin" Akuma isn't a separate form, its the designation for when Akuma isn't holding back (before that Oni thing came along which is when Akuma releases his morals and Shin Oni which is when Oni pushes past the last fragments of Akuma's resistance). It's his natural state, when he's not just testing someone out. Is there any indication that Akuma, the guy who had mastered his art decades ago and rarely ever finds anyone worth fighting, got any stronger at all during the series? EDIT: Removed Gen line because I misunderstood your statement. My bad.

The events you mention (lmao which took place before the very 1st SF) was Akuma at a state before he even needed to hold back cuz he wasn't as strong as he is now. When Akuma goes all out, his hair turns white or his gi turns purple or both. None of that happened in the events you name.

And indication of Akuma gettin any stronger than SFA? Please tell me yur jokin. This has to be the most ridiculous statement ever asked in regards to this. I know some vets around here who are gonna have a great laugh at this one. So in the ten years between SFA and SFIII, every single one of Akuma's endings has him trainin his ass off, yet there is reason to question whether or not Akuma has gotten any stronger?

Wait so let me get this straight, Ryu trains and by the time of SFIV, not only does he surpass his SFA self, he surpasses SFA2 Akuma and by the time of SFIII he surpasses Shin Evil Ryu who was strong enough to beat up SFIV Shin Akuma. And even though Akuma is shown trainin at greater extremes than Ryu, Akuma's power may not have increased at all, but boy did Ryu's sky rocket.

This is hilarious! Source guides state that Ryu, by the time of SFIII, completely replaces the SNH with another power. Evil Ryu in SFIV is an even more powerful boss over Shin Akuma (right bellow Oni) and that power is surpassed or equaled in SFIII, yet and still, Ryu who is equal to or stronger than Shin Evil Ryu at this point, loses to a one armed Oro. Akuma then stalemates Oro (both holdin back). Akuma stalemates a character who is more-way more powerful than he himself was a few years ago. Still there are some people in the world who would question whether or not Akuma increased in power between the time of SFA2 and SFIII. This is a definitely a classic!

Originally posted by Drunkard Kid
Her impact was that she was allegedly stronger than Bison/Rose, which wasn't carried out by feats, that she was the source of the Psycho Power, which was never mentioned again in any SF game after Alpha III, and her ending isn't even canon since it would involve taking away a statue that was there for all subsequent games. So yeah, no affect on actual canon, and no one in the series references her except in SFvsT, which is also not canon.

Again, no.

This post was even worse than the last one. You can respond to this if you want to, I'll give you the last word. But I'm just gonna ignore you on this subject til' I see some progress in yur game, good sir.

No End N Site
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Just simply appearing in SF doesn't mean it was a canon appearance.

Accordin to Capcom, this is all it takes. Being in a main SF game and not being a secret character makes you canon.


Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Not really. They likely weren't referring to Ingrid when they said that because remember, Yun was in that game. But both of them were added long after the canon events of the game was complete.

Of course, I'm not disputing over rather or not she's a SF character but even if she is, she still may not be part of the canon storyline.



No, it was in fact, a direct question regardin Ingrid. Before you disagree with me about it, just coulda just google it 1st, damn! I'll try and find the interview.

If you've read my above posts, I agree that the statement is dumb cuz of the very fact they Yun was there. But they said what they said so...You gotta remember, Capcom doesn't give a damn about a story, at least when it's a fightin game.

Bro SMASH
Yeah, I do want to see this interview because I sure don't remember it.

I did read your above post about Yun but sometimes, you just can't go by everything Capcom says. The fact that Capcom never even explained her absence during the events of SF4 kind of makes it seem like Ingrid was dropped as a SF character.

No End N Site
It appears as tho the site where the Q&A originally took place no longer exists. However, the statement has raised a ton of eyebrows so the transcript of that section of the interview is posted everywhere and here it is

Mike's Question
Lastly, letís stop the fan bickering and confusion right now. As far as your concerned is Ingrid truly a Street Fighter character? Because of the way she was introduced and the version of Street Fighter Alpha 3 she was in, people feel she does not belong. Please clear this up so fans know whether or not to complain about her not being included in Super Street Fighter IV.

Seth's Response
Full disclosure: Iím a friend of Ingridís creator (who also snuck a few of her concepts into Yattaman #2 in Tatsunoko Vs Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars), so I might be biased. That said, while Iím not sure about her future, I do think her inclusion in Capcom Fighting Evolution cemented her place in the official Street Fighter canon.


Here's where I found the transcript...

Bro SMASH
That doesn't sound like a 100% confirmation.

I am Vegeta
Asura from Asura's wrath could probably solo street fighter

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