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Captain America
Thor
Hulk
Iron Man
Hawkeye
Black Widow

Vs.

Sebastion Shaw


Fight takes place in NY after the invasion as the Avengers are leaving the shawarma restaurant (consider them fully rested and healed/repaired/reloaded); Sebastion approaches them:

Sebastion: "I'm not happy, I was hoping the aliens would destroy the governments of the world; as I planned to rise-up with my mutants and retake the planet and rebuild it in my own image."

Thor: "Stand aside you lunatic mortal, I've just feasted and am in no mood."

Sebastion: *smiles* "Ah, the so-called demi-god, I have it on good word that Odin secretly bottoms for Heimdall's massive black cock."

Thor: *rages* "The All Father doth not bite pillow, mortal!" *rages some more*

Fight!

Avengers can net a win or two.

SHIELD will tell the Avengers of Shaw's powerset after a brief skirmish of Hulk punching Shaw and Shaw simply tanking it.

After that Cap tells everyone to withdraw as he tells Hulk to go underground and push the ground underneath Shaw and lift him into the air. Thor creates a hurricane that keeps Shaw airborne and dumps him off the coast.

Wouldn't Sebastion just absorb the lifting-force of the tornado?

Shaw's powerset is still in the end a mystery. He died so we couldn't see more.

If the ground beneath Shaw was risen would he rise as well? Lets say for instance whilst Shaw was on that submarine and Superman flew underneath the sub and lifted it into the sky could Shaw just halt himself and blast out of the sub and fall the the earth? I don't think so personally. The guy abosrbed heavy kinetic impact by "focusing" on it and then absorbing it.

Going by the same physics a constant barrage of passive wind rising him into the air can't be compared to the bullets and missile blast he received in XM:FC for the above reasons.

I don't know but I'm open for real theories on just how Shaw's powers worked in First Class.

He said (to the general) that he can absorb all forms of energy. The nuclear-power/radiation he absorbed wasn't kinetic in nature.

Wind-energy would be considered kinetic-energy though, iirc.

It seems like Shaw could be thrown if he was standing or inside something and that object was thrown. But Hulk couldn't grab and thrown him.

I never said that. I said Hulk or respectively Ironman could lift the ground underneath Shaw and raise him.

As I said before a constant current of wind isn't the same as a bazooka blast or a grenade. And Shaw took at least up to ten secs to come to grips with such explosions. Tornado levels of Wind is pressure and many tiny volumes of kinetic energy. Shaw theoretically could start to absorb the wind particles but there are so many more bursting from underneath and around him.


And regardless, how is Shaw going to kill the Avengers?

Originally posted by the ninjak
I never said that. I said Hulk or respectively Ironman could lift the ground underneath Shaw and raise him.

And I was agreeing.

But what does that accomplish, he could just jump off and become more powerful in line with how far he's fallen once he absorbs the kinetic energy of his body hitting the ground.

Hulk groung pounds like in ITH causing Shaw to fall and Thor places Mjlonir on Shaw pinning him down

Other than that or something similiar (making it so Shaw cant move) Shaw could thrash them

Originally posted by juggerman
Hulk groung pounds like in ITH causing Shaw to fall and Thor places Mjlonir on Shaw pinning him down

Other than that or something similiar (making it so Shaw cant move) Shaw could thrash them

Edit: I miss-read your post.

What would happen if Thor just flew next to him, picked him up and flew away?

I doubt the Avengers can kill Shaw, but they can definitely bfr him.

Just have Thor hug Shaw and then Hulk kick Thor really friggin' hard ... into orbit or something.

Thor then flies back (once he regains consciousness) and Shaw is left to drift in space.

This is a tactic Thor was born for, seeing as IM would died as a result of a kick from Hulk. Thor absorbs the brunt of the kick, Shaw only gets a little energy from it, not enough to get out of Thor's grip ..

So your tactic for an Avengers win is Thor giving Shaw a homosexual embrace and then getting pounded in the ass from the Hulk? Clever.

But I'm fairly sure they'd have attacked Shaw first for some time before realizing he's capable of taking massive damage and reusing it. So Show would likely he a power-house of stored energy before they came up with 'Operation Man-Hug".

Originally posted by Newjak
What would happen if Thor just flew next to him, picked him up and flew away?

Theoretically it would work. Lifting him isn't impact kinetic energy.

Originally posted by Robtard
So your tactic for an Avengers win is Thor giving Shaw a homosexual embrace and then getting pounded in the ass from the Hulk? Clever.

But I'm fairly sure they'd have attacked Shaw first for some time before realizing he's capable of taking massive damage and reusing it. So Show would likely he a power-house of stored energy before they came up with 'Operation Man-Hug".
Well given that he looks like ... Kevin Bacon, I'm sure Thor isn't going to be chucking mjolnir at him right-away. Hulk too, would wait and see what Shaw does (Hulk is usually a reactionary opponent).

The only ones I can see attacking Shaw, are BW and Hawkeye and their attacks aren't enough to power him up too much. In fact, it may just be enough of an amp for IM to notice and run scans on Shaw.


The Thor picking him up and floating off to space with him tactic would also work... but wouldn't be a true team effort, imo.

Similarly, Hulk could just roll Shaw up into a ball, really slowly, so that Shaw doesn't build-up too much power, then throw him into orbit.

Another tactic, Cap applies superglue to his shield, then sticks it on Shaw's arse, Hulk kicks shield (and Shaw) into space, the shield absorbs whatever energies the kick produced, whilst vibrating and preventing those energies from transferring to Shaw ... hmm

Originally posted by janus77
Another tactic, Cap applies superglue to his shield, then sticks it on Shaw's arse, Hulk kicks shield (and Shaw) into space, the shield absorbs whatever energies the kick produced, whilst vibrating and preventing those energies from transferring to Shaw ... hmm

Genius. Cap's shield can definitely be of use in this battle, as long as it isn't used by Cap.

What would happen if Hulk grapped Shaw and began applying a slow and steady pressure, would he absorb the energy fast enough to resist the pressure or would he simply die from being slowly crushed?

The problem as I see it, is that shaw's durability doesn't increase with the amount of energy he absorb (shown when the coin entered through his skull), so while I can see ways for the avengers to win, I'm simply in the dark as to how Shaw absorb beside that he has to move in order to absorb it. I mean he ran when Magneto threw the anchor and all after him, maybe a direct impact, while he had absorbed the energy would simply cause a blunt blow to large for his physical body to handle.

Yeah I'm fishing.

Shaw's ability to kinetically stop and absorb damage on film was based upon him consciously wanted to stop it.
Hence Mags punching him in the face whilst they were in the sub.

Originally posted by Utrigita
What would happen if Hulk grapped Shaw and began applying a slow and steady pressure, would he absorb the energy fast enough to resist the pressure or would he simply die from being slowly crushed?

The problem as I see it, is that shaw's durability doesn't increase with the amount of energy he absorb (shown when the coin entered through his skull), so while I can see ways for the avengers to win, I'm simply in the dark as to how Shaw absorb beside that he has to move in order to absorb it. I mean he ran when Magneto threw the anchor and all after him, maybe a direct impact, while he had absorbed the energy would simply cause a blunt blow to large for his physical body to handle.

Yeah I'm fishing.

Shaw took a grenade in his hands and then a RPG to the head, I think he can absorb energy nigh-instantly.

IIRC, Shaw's powers were down due to Xavier being in his head at the moment.

Shaw. Theres nothing they can do to him really.

Originally posted by Robtard
Shaw took a grenade in his hands and then a RPG to the head, I think he can absorb energy nigh-instantly.

IIRC, Shaw's powers were down due to Xavier being in his head at the moment.

That is pure energy however, a sudden burst, have we seen how he handles being hit by a character with the strength level of Hulk?

As I understand it Shaw's power was based on him requiring to move to absorb the energy, hence my question on what would happen if he was sqeeshed, and as such couldn't really move.

IIRC, I don't think he had to move to absorb energy, he had not problem sucking up the sub's nuclear reactor. He was also standing still when the CIA security guards were shooting him.

At the end of the movie Magneto was slamming him with metal and he just absorbed the kinetic energy and they instantly stopped moving. He didn't have to move or anything. He'd do the same to one of the Hulk's punches imo. And then punch him back with the energy.

Originally posted by Robtard
IIRC, I don't think he had to move to absorb energy, he had not problem sucking up the sub's nuclear reactor. He was also standing still when the CIA security guards were shooting him.

My point is that every time he was struck his body was in motion, you see his body react when it's hit by the bullet, you see his face going from side to side when he is drawing power from the nuclear reactor, that is what I mean with having to move to absorb it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
At the end of the movie Magneto was slamming him with metal and he just absorbed the kinetic energy and they instantly stopped moving. He didn't have to move or anything. He'd do the same to one of the Hulk's punches imo. And then punch him back with the energy.

wasn't he just pulling them down around Shaw?

Originally posted by Utrigita
My point is that every time he was struck his body was in motion, you see his body react when it's hit by the bullet, you see his face going from side to side when he is drawing power from the nuclear reactor, that is what I mean with having to move to absorb it.

Seems like absorbing energy causes his body to move/react, not he needs to move to absorb energy. He was standing still with his hand out when the grenade exploded, as another example.

Originally posted by Utrigita
wasn't he just pulling them down around Shaw?

No, he smacks him right in the head a few times. They were full-on strikes. I just checked. He does stagger a bit though.

So basically Shaw is invincible to non-speedsters because it would take someone with enough speed to beat the shit out of him before he can activate his powers, amirite?

Basically.

Sebastion Shaw of First Class is in the unique position among superhero movies of being possibly the most broken character to be in one (While Superman and others are more powerful, Shaw's powers effectively resemble cheating, "lul ur attack can't hurt me and just makes me stronger i win".

Magneto's attacks were doing jack-diddly to him, and Magneto's magnetic "strength" for lack of better term at least rivals Hulk's physical strength.

Shaw wins by taking enough hits to allow him to take out the team.

Originally posted by Robtard
Seems like absorbing energy causes his body to move/react, not he needs to move to absorb energy. He was standing still with his hand out when the grenade exploded, as another example.

Yet his hands reacted and moved outwards, and then he forced the energy into his own body. What I mean is that Shaw requiring to move in some way, shape or form, is the only logical conclusion I can find to why the Coin could move through his skull, but as said before I also think this clearly shows that Shaw's durability doesn't increase with the energy he absorbs.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, he smacks him right in the head a few times. They were full-on strikes. I just checked. He does stagger a bit though.

Will have to check, I can't recall. But I still find it strange that he ran from Magneto's anchor.

If Magneto sunk the ship while he was on it, he would have drowned.

He can't absorb water! Except through the mouth! awecraz

Originally posted by Utrigita
Yet his hands reacted and moved outwards, and then he forced the energy into his own body. What I mean is that Shaw requiring to move in some way, shape or form, is the only logical conclusion I can find to why the Coin could move through his skull, but as said before I also think this clearly shows that Shaw's durability doesn't increase with the energy he absorbs.

He only needs to use his hands when he wants to gain energy around him, e.g an explosion that spreads omni-directionally. Anything that strikes him directly gets absorbed without Shaw having to consciously absorb it. Personally I think he uses his hands because the writers thought it looked cool, how else are they gonna make it look like he is absorbing the energy of a grenade for example - just standing there?

The coin scene is just broken whichever way you look at it. A coin moving at that speed would've simply pushed his head back, not enter it. That's the bottom line. I've thought about counter-arguments but they all have answers. Writers simply not thinking about the physics/logic of that scene is the most obvious reason, any other explanation is just trying to somehow rationalize the scene to fit a certain theory.

As others have said, Shaw was stronger than Hulk when he fought Magneto at the end. He was completely at ease against Magneto that was giving everything he had pushing that metal beam. The same Magneto that just lifted a submarine - deep underwater, and travelling in the opposite direction.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
So basically Shaw is invincible to non-speedsters because it would take someone with enough speed to beat the shit out of him before he can activate his powers, amirite?

I don't believe he even needs to "activate" it when energy strikes him directly.

Here's an interesting question. Since we know Cap's shieldis a special material that absorbs energy as well. If Cap launched it at Shaw does anyone think it would be able to counter Shaw's powers?

And thus would he basically act like a normal human when being hit by the shield?

Originally posted by Newjak
Here's an interesting question. Since we know Cap's shieldis a special material that absorbs energy as well. If Cap launched it at Shaw does anyone think it would be able to counter Shaw's powers?

And thus would he basically act like a normal human when being hit by the shield?
If Cap launches it at Shaw, Shaw absorbs and amps from the force of its strike.

The shield absorbs and redistributes the power of an attack, pretty much like Shaw, but it does move due to force (or else Cap wouldn't be able to throw it in the first place).

The only way I see the shield working to the team's advantage is if they can attach it to Shaw and then hit the shield to prevent Shaw from getting any energy transfer.

Originally posted by Placidity
He only needs to use his hands when he wants to gain energy around him, e.g an explosion that spreads omni-directionally. Anything that strikes him directly gets absorbed without Shaw having to consciously absorb it. Personally I think he uses his hands because the writers thought it looked cool, how else are they gonna make it look like he is absorbing the energy of a grenade for example - just standing there?

The coin scene is just broken whichever way you look at it. A coin moving at that speed would've simply pushed his head back, not enter it. That's the bottom line. I've thought about counter-arguments but they all have answers. Writers simply not thinking about the physics/logic of that scene is the most obvious reason, any other explanation is just trying to somehow rationalize the scene to fit a certain theory.

As others have said, Shaw was stronger than Hulk when he fought Magneto at the end. He was completely at ease against Magneto that was giving everything he had pushing that metal beam. The same Magneto that just lifted a submarine - deep underwater, and travelling in the opposite direction.

It's more a way of coming up with a explanation as to why the coin worked, when other objects like bullets did not, and in that regard I found that the only logical scenario I could come up with was Shaw's inability to move or act like he did every other time he absorbed energy.

Originally posted by Placidity
I don't believe he even needs to "activate" it when energy strikes him directly.

Sure he does. Otherwise, Magneto wouldn't have been able to beat him. Xavier was basically preventing his powers from activiating.

Shaw is retarded.

There. Said it.

Originally posted by Utrigita
It's more a way of coming up with a explanation as to why the coin worked, when other objects like bullets did not, and in that regard I found that the only logical scenario I could come up with was Shaw's inability to move or act like he did every other time he absorbed energy.

Bullets move at sufficient velocities to penetrate a human skull, a slow moving coin doesn't. The problem is the scene was not thought-out and illogical (physically impossible), yet people try to rationalize it somehow, it doesn't work.

Originally posted by ares834
Sure he does. Otherwise, Magneto wouldn't have been able to beat him. Xavier was basically preventing his powers from activiating.

I've already posted my explanations for this, some of it again in the above comment.

The coin went through his head because a class 100 pushed it through, and Shaw was effectively frozen in time and unable to use his powers.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The coin went through his head because a class 100 pushed it through, and Shaw was effectively frozen in time and unable to use his powers.

What do you mean frozen in time? Xavier just froze his mind, like he did to all those people in the mall in X2.

tZ2JZxRY2tk

Watch 1:51-1:54, that's what exactly would and should have happened to Shaw as the coin pushed against it. Doesn't matter if it's class 1 or class 1 billion it would have the same effect in that situation.

Regardless of the physics issue that a slow object would have pushed Shaw instead of cutting into him, it's clear that his powers were effectively nullified due to Xavier being in his mind.

It's little different with the suspension of belief we had to have when Superman lifts that island, when he should have drilled right through it instead, when we factor in the power he was exerting over the surface area of his body and the composition on the island.

Originally posted by Placidity
What do you mean frozen in time? Xavier just froze his mind, like he did to all those people in the mall in X2.

tZ2JZxRY2tk

Watch 1:51-1:54, that's what exactly would and should have happened to Shaw as the coin pushed against it. Doesn't matter if it's class 1 or class 1 billion it would have the same effect in that situation. I know how Xavier's powers work. But also notice that a physically normal girl was able to push a grown man and tilt him, which she could not do were he not frozen.

Also, lol. This is a comic book movie. I don't see you complaining about Hulk's fist traveling slow enough for guys like Captain America to react to, but being capable of busting a building sized leviathan thing with a punch (His fist would have to be traveling at some ridiculous hypersonic speed to manage that shit, velocity x mass ****er).

It's the exact same principle.

Shaw died 'cause he needs to concentrate to absorb the energy. A telepath is the only real way to beat him... otherwise, he'll just wait out the attacks.

Originally posted by Robtard
Regardless of the physics issue that a slow object would have pushed Shaw instead of cutting into him, it's clear that his powers were effectively nullified due to Xavier being in his mind.

It's little different with the suspension of belief we had to have when Superman lifts that island, when he should have drilled right through it instead, when we factor in the power he was exerting over the surface area of his body and the composition on the island.

Also @NemeBro

I completely understand the suspension of belief sentiment, and under other circumstances, I would not feel the need to question it or put it up against critical scrutiny.

However, it is different in this case, because people are trying to use this single and illogical (in my reasoning) feat to infer how Shaw's ability works, and then use that as a basis for another argument.