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Who is "Gautama Buddha"?

And Jesus's last name was not Christ.

Am I the only one who finds JIA posting a link to a pirated version of Passion to be a tiny bit funny?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Who is "Gautama Buddha"?

And Jesus's last name was not Christ.

I apologize for the Guatama Buddha error. I fixed it.

I know that Jesus' last name is not Christ. The term "Christ" denotes Jesus' Messianic office or function in His Father's plan.

"Christ" means "Anointed One and His anointing."

Jesus Christ was anointed to fulfill His mission as Savior of the world.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I know a guy named Bodhisattva, it's a pretty easy gig to get into.

Wow! Really? Hippies parents.

Ya, we (all of us) are considered to be Bodhisattvas of the Earth.

I am actually the prohpetess of Allah, and you're wrong, JIA.

That is all.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I am actually the prohpetess of Allah, and you're wrong, JIA.

That is all.

Really? You're the prophetess of allah?

Why do you claim that I am wrong?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Lord Jesus is not a bodhisattva because His purpose had nothing to do with Buddhist teachings.

Do you know what a bodhisattva is? If you did, then you would agree, regardless of what religion you are talking about.

Dieing on the cross for the sins of others is exactly what a bodhisattva would do. A Buddha would not need to do that.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You don't understand JIA's view of Christianity at all.

Actually I do. I used to think and believe just like he does.

The sheer arrogance of this thread is funny, JIA trying to tell a Buddhist of many long years what Buddhism is about.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Actually I do. I used to think and believe just like he does.

The fact that you disagree with him about what Christianity is about should be more than enough evidence that you didn't "think and believe" exactly the same as him.

Originally posted by Robtard
The sheer arrogance of this thread is funny, JIA trying to tell a Buddhist of many long years what Buddhism is about.

While the Buddhist tells him what Christianity is about.

Actually go back and look at their interactions. There is very little difference between how the two of them argue. They just state a thing as fact and stop.

Shakaya: Hell is a state of mind.
JIA: No, hell is a place.
Shakaya: No, hell is a state of mind.
JIA: No, hell is a place.
Shakaya: No, hell is a state of mind.
JIA: No, hell is a place.
Shakaya: No, hell is a state of mind.
JIA: No, hell is a place.

Originally posted by Robtard
The sheer arrogance of this thread is funny, JIA trying to tell a Buddhist of many long years what Buddhism is about.

No. Just offering my two cents just as you do concerning Islam and Christianity.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The fact that you disagree with him about what Christianity is about should be more than enough evidence that you didn't "think and believe" exactly the same as him.



While the Buddhist tells him what Christianity is about.

Actually go back and look at their interactions. There is very little difference between how the two of them argue. They just state a thing as fact and stop.

Shakaya: Hell is a state of mind.
JIA: No, hell is a place.
Shakaya: No, hell is a state of mind.
JIA: No, hell is a place.
Shakaya: No, hell is a state of mind.
JIA: No, hell is a place.
Shakaya: No, hell is a state of mind.
JIA: No, hell is a place.

With all due respect Symmetric Chaos your post made me laugh, but not in a bad way.

It is true that Shakyamunison and I go back and forth.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No. Just offering my two cents just as you do concerning Islam and Christianity.

Except the Islam/Christianity bit we're discussing in another thread isn't "my two cents", it's fact both religions and Judaism share the same God, with varying beliefs/interpretations though.

I've not told you "Islam is right and Christianity is wrong".

edit DP

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The fact that you disagree with him about what Christianity is about should be more than enough evidence that you didn't "think and believe" exactly the same as him...

Understanding and agreeing are not the same thing.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
With all due respect Symmetric Chaos your post made me laugh, but not in a bad way.

It is true that Shakyamunison and I go back and forth.

Yes, we are friends. I enjoy talking to JIA. Even when he bugs me.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, we are friends. I enjoy talking to JIA. Even when he bugs me.

Me bug you?

Not possible.

Originally posted by Robtard
Except the Islam/Christianity bit we're discussing in another thread isn't "my two cents", it's fact both religions and Judaism share the same God, with varying beliefs/interpretations though.

I've not told you "Islam is right and Christianity is wrong".

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is triune.

The god of the Quran is not triune.

The God of the Bible has begotten a Son.

The god of the Quran does not have a son.

The idea of begetting a son is monstrous to allah.

The God of the Bible sent His Son to die for the sins of the world in order to redeem fallen, sinful humanity, and bring us back to God.

The Holy Bible reveals that Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures.

The god of the Quran denies emphatically that Jesus Christ died .



I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the God of the Bible and the god of the Quran could not be and--are not--the same.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Me bug you?

Not possible.



Ya, your right.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ya, your right.

Mohammed at least 7/10

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Actually I do. I used to think and believe just like he does. yeah, me too.

Originally posted by Deja~vu
yeah, me too.

We are the song birds that have been set free.

It is not acceptable to have a belief where the alternative is punishment. That's how you train dogs, not develop people.
-paraphrased from a Taoist text

Originally posted by Digi
It is not acceptable to have a belief where the alternative is punishment. That's how you train dogs, not develop people.
-paraphrased from a Taoist text

I agree, but I like what Lewis Black had to say about the OT.

Paraphrase:

His people needed this kind of treatment, because they were three hairs shy of being Baboons.

He said it better...

Originally posted by Digi
It is not acceptable to have a belief where the alternative is punishment. That's how you train dogs, not develop people.
-paraphrased from a Taoist text

Question...does the potter not have power over the clay?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Question...does the potter not have power over the clay?

A potter cannot create clay out of nothing.

^ How is that at all relevant to his response which was to Digi's point?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Question...does the potter not have power over the clay?
So God can do whatever he wants because he's All-Powerful? God isn't subject to his own morality?

Originally posted by Placidity
^ How is that at all relevant to his response which was to Digi's point?

Skipping ahead. I know where he is going, and a potter is Not a good analog for god.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Skipping ahead. I know where he is going, and a potter is Not a good analog for god.

Actually it was an analogy for the authority of God, not the existence.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So God can do whatever he wants because he's All-Powerful? God isn't subject to his own morality?

God isn't violating his own "morals", that's impossible, at least in the understanding of the Judeo-Christian God, because the nature of God himself determines morals. He might be violating what you define as moral though, yes. If you want to be a bit fancier though (I suspect you may) the discussion could get real messy, but I don't think I'm interested. But then again, you weren't addressing me in the first place...

Originally posted by Placidity
Actually it was an analogy for the authority of God, not the existence.

Not a good analogy for anything to do with god. A potter would have to make the clay out of nothing, and the vases the potter would make would always be perfect. The greater the potter the better the pot, therefore god would be the perfect potter and his pots would also be perfect. We are not perfect, therefore god is not a perfect potter.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Question...does the potter not have power over the clay?

...which displays a lack of understanding of my point. Or, more likely, tries to redirect the discussion to whatever you want to talk about. You're very annoying. Engage me, don't talk at me.

Originally posted by Digi
...which displays a lack of understanding of my point. Or, more likely, tries to redirect the discussion to whatever you want to talk about. You're very annoying. Engage me, don't talk at me.

I think his faith is too week for him to confront you directly.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
A potter cannot create clay out of nothing.

You've just buttressed my point even more than I saw originally.

Thanks to you not only does the potter have power over the clay (which would be sufficient to make my point), but based on your statement God is even more justified.

You see a human potter has power over the clay to do with it as he wishes--and he didn't create the clay from nothing. The human potter reserves this much power over clay that he manufactured from pre-existent materials.

However, God created the clay from nothing. So how much more power does God have over the clay than the human potter? I say even more power than the human potter.

Thanks Shakyamunison.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So God can do whatever he wants because he's All-Powerful? God isn't subject to his own morality?

God is not just omnipotent (i.e. all-powerful or almighty); God is also Love.

God is subject only to His Word.

Whatever His Word says, He must do or abide by.

For example, God says in His Word "Do not lie."

So God cannot lie.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You've just buttressed my point even more than I saw originally.

Thanks to you not only does the potter have power over the clay (which would be sufficient to make my point), but based on your statement God is even more justified.

You see a human potter has power over the clay to do with it as he wishes--and he didn't create the clay from nothing. The human potter reserves this much power over clay that he manufactured from pre-existent materials.

However, God created the clay from nothing. So how much more power does God have over the clay than the human potter? I say even more power than the human potter.

Thanks Shakyamunison.

It is obvious to me that you have never worked with clay. It is more of a dance then a dominating art.

There is no original creation, ever! The universe has always existed is one form or another. The universe is not a creation, but a creator. The clay was not made from nothing; it was made from simpler atoms in the heart of stars. We are star dust.

It is more likely that the universe is God then your man-made god.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God is not just omnipotent (i.e. all-powerful or almighty); God is also Love.

God is subject only to His Word.

Whatever His Word says, He must do or abide by.

For example, God says in His Word "Do not lie."

So God cannot lie.

Your god said do not kill, but then commanded the Jews to kill thousands of people. Your God also killed for more people in the story of Noah, so don't tell me that your god cannot lie.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Not a good analogy for anything to do with god. A potter would have to make the clay out of nothing, and the vases the potter would make would always be perfect. The greater the potter the better the pot, therefore god would be the perfect potter and his pots would also be perfect. We are not perfect, therefore god is not a perfect potter.

Actually it is a very good analogy. So good in fact that the Apostle Paul (who wrote two-thirds of the New Testament under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) used it.

Prior to Adam and Eve's fall and sin they were spiritually and morally innocent or righteous as far as keeping God's Word or law.

They did not have any sin or guilt in their heart or lives as long as they kept God's Word. So in a sense Adam and Eve were perfect (again, spiritually and morally) in God's eyes until their fall and sin.

At this juncture we are not perfect because sin resides in our members (i.e. our flesh or physical body). We have a sin nature. We think sin, talk sin, and commit sin.

But this is not a reflection on God (i.e. the Potter), this is a result of Adam and Eve's wrong choices. They chose to disobey God and it opened the door to sin and death.

The only fault if you would that you could lay to God's charge (for sake of this discussion although I affirm that God was not to blame in any way for Adam and Eve's disobedience) is that God created the first man and woman with the ability to choose right or wrong, good or evil, life or death.

God created Adam and Eve with a will.

Just like today we make wrong choices and then blame God for our stupidity.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It is obvious to me that you have never worked with clay. It is more of a dance then a dominating art.

There is no original creation, ever! The universe has always existed is one form or another. The universe is not a creation, but a creator. The clay was not made from nothing; it was made from simpler atoms in the heart of stars. We are star dust.

It is more likely that the universe is God then your man-made god.

Did you forget about my rebuttal?

Originally posted by Digi
...which displays a lack of understanding of my point. Or, more likely, tries to redirect the discussion to whatever you want to talk about. You're very annoying. Engage me, don't talk at me.

I am engaging you.

Why are you so upset?

I posed a question to you for your consideration. That is all.

Did it rub you the wrong way or did it explode your point?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Actually it is a very good analogy. So good in fact that the Apostle Paul (who wrote two-thirds of the New Testament under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) used it.

Prior to Adam and Eve's fall and sin they were spiritually and morally innocent or righteous as far as keeping God's Word or law.

They did not have any sin or guilt in their heart or lives as long as they kept God's Word. So in a sense Adam and Eve were perfect (again, spiritually and morally) in God's eyes until their fall and sin.

At this juncture we are not perfect because sin resides in our members (i.e. our flesh or physical body). We have a sin nature. We think sin, talk sin, and commit sin.

But this is not a reflection on God (i.e. the Potter), this is a result of Adam and Eve's wrong choices. They chose to disobey God and it opened the door to sin and death.

The only fault if you would that you could lay to God's charge (for sake of this discussion although I affirm that God was not to blame in any way for Adam and Eve's disobedience) is that God created the first man and woman with the ability to choose right or wrong, good or evil, life or death.

God created Adam and Eve with a will.

Just like today we make wrong choices and then blame God for our stupidity.

Adam and Eve are just a story in a book. There are older stories about Adam and Eve, and put aside this idea of purity. Humans have always been imperfect, just like all other animals that have evolved on this planet.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Wait, wait wait wait...Isn't Christianity's main point of a human sacrifice? Or God becoming a man to make the sacrifice.

Jesus WAS the human sacrifice. How do you blame devil for this...?

The main point of Christianity is that,

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."


So the crux of Christianity is love.

God the Father loves people.

The Heavenly Father loves people so much that He gave.

The Father God loves people so much that He gave His only begotten Son.

God the Father loves people, God the Son loves people, and God the Holy Spirit loves people.

The Heavenly Father offers eternal life to anyone who will believe in His Son Jesus Christ, and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and that God has raised Him from the dead

Christianity is a Person.

That Person is Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The main point of Christianity is that,

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."


So the crux of Christianity is love.

God the Father loves people.

The Heavenly Father loves people so much that He gave.

The Father God loves people so much that He gave His only begotten Son.

God the Father loves people, God the Son loves people, and God the Holy Spirit loves people.

The Heavenly Father offers eternal life to anyone who will believe in His Son Jesus Christ, and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and that God has raised Him from the dead

Christianity is a Person.

That Person is Jesus Christ.




Why all the hoops? If God is love, then Jesus was not needed.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Not a good analogy for anything to do with god. A potter would have to make the clay out of nothing, and the vases the potter would make would always be perfect. The greater the potter the better the pot, therefore god would be the perfect potter and his pots would also be perfect. We are not perfect, therefore god is not a perfect potter.

I'd note that, in the Genesis account, God never said his creation was "perfect" but "good".

Seems to me that the universe/existence was always intended to be imperfect.

However, this is extremely subjective. To another person, like a Mormon, we would consider this "imperfection" actually the perfect existence for what it is intended. So, one person's imperfection is another person's perfection.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'd note that, in the Genesis account, God never said his creation was "perfect" but "good".

Seems to me that the universe/existence was always intended to be imperfect.

However, this is extremely subjective. To another person, like a Mormon, we would consider this "imperfection" actually the perfect existence for what it is intended. So, one person's imperfection is another person's perfection.

Yes, I would agree. The universe is perfect in it's imperfection.

I believe that there is no need for God to be perfect. My disagreement is the fact I don't believe in Satan.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, I would agree. The universe is perfect in it's imperfection.

I believe that there is no need for God to be perfect.


I don't think I could agree more.


Originally posted by Shakyamunison
My disagreement is the fact I don't believe in Satan.


I am not sure about this topic, personally. Satan could just be a concept personified...or he could be a real entity. In order to be sure, I'd have to have Objective Knowledge.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't think I could agree more.





I am not sure about this topic, personally. Satan could just be a concept personified...or he could be a real entity. In order to be sure, I'd have to have Objective Knowledge.

Well, he is too convenient for my taste. We always try to displace the blame for the things that we do wrong. The truth! we are the cause for the evil in the world.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I am engaging you.

Why are you so upset?

I posed a question to you for your consideration. That is all.

Did it rub you the wrong way or did it explode your point?



Engaging in this sense means responding to what someone posts. Your question was attempting to lead the witness, to use a legal term. I'm not interested in a one-way conversation.

You have a habit of trying to lead the discussion to only what you want to talk about though. I've pointed it out before, to no avail. You are very much not worth the time.

Originally posted by Digi
You are very much not worth the time.

haermm2

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, but prove that those are referencing an actual real entity and not just a concept. See, that's the problem I have. It could just be a concept.

"Mother nature". Well, we all know that the naturalist world is not actual female, sentient, and a caretaker of offspring. But we still call the natural world "mother nature". Same thing with father time.


"Evils of the World" become "The Devil".

The Bible already proves that the devil is a personal devil. I've listed several Scriptures that support this.

The Bible states that the devil--not a concept--will be cast into the lake of fire.

The Lord Jesus beheld satan like lightning fall from Heaven.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Bible already proves that the devil is a personal devil. I've listed several Scriptures that support this.

The Bible states that the devil--not a concept--will be cast into the lake of fire.

The Lord Jesus beheld satan like lightning fall from Heaven.

Only in Mormonism is it directly stated the that Devil is an entity/person/being.

In all your examples, they can also be read as a concept. "Evil will be cast into the lake of fire" is another, and more accurate translation of that same scripture.


Evil with a capital "E" can be a concept in all scriptures you mention. This is not a spiritual debate, it is a scholarly one. The concept of satan injected into scripture occurs after these scriptures were written. Associating Lucifer become Satan is something that occurs after those scriptures were written.


Only in Morminism (what I have found in my studies of religions, thus far) is "Lucifer turned Satan" associated with being an actual real being, not a concept.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Only in Mormonism is it directly stated the that Devil is an entity/person/being.

In all your examples, they can also be read as a concept. "Evil will be cast into the lake of fire" is another, and more accurate translation of that same scripture.


Evil with a capital "E" can be a concept in all scriptures you mention. This is not a spiritual debate, it is a scholarly one. The concept of satan injected into scripture occurs after these scriptures were written. Associating Lucifer become Satan is something that occurs after those scriptures were written.


Only in Morminism (what I have found in my studies of religions, thus far) is "Lucifer turned Satan" associated with being an actual real being, not a concept.

Jesus beheld satan as lightning fall from Heaven.

In other words, Jesus saw satan like lightning fall from Heaven.

How can you see an abstract concept fall from Heaven?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Jesus beheld satan as lightning fall from Heaven.

In other words, Jesus saw satan like lightning fall from Heaven.

How can you see an abstract concept fall from Heaven?

Jesus beheld Lucifer fall as an angel.

It also reads as very strong symbolism. Symbolic of how quickly God cast out Lucifer, the fallen angel, from heaven.


Here's a nice write-up on the confusion of "Satan is Lucifer":

http://newprotestants.com/LUCIFER.htm

Originally posted by dadudemon
Jesus beheld Lucifer fall as an angel.

It also reads as very strong symbolism. Symbolic of how quickly God cast out Lucifer, the fallen angel, from heaven.


Here's a nice write-up on the confusion of "Satan is Lucifer":

http://newprotestants.com/LUCIFER.htm

But the point is still maintained: Jesus beheld the devil i.e. a personal, created cherub, fall like lightning from Heaven.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-fall.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/Lucifer-Satan.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/King-of-Tyre.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-defeat.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/who-Satan.html

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But the point is still maintained: Jesus beheld the devil i.e. a personal, created cherub, fall like lightning from Heaven.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-fall.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/Lucifer-Satan.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/King-of-Tyre.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-defeat.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/who-Satan.html

And that means....that Satan could just be a concept of evil since he is not actually Lucifer unless you are Mormon and believe they are the same through other scriptures.

Just sayin': it's not as clear cut and dry as you want it to be.

I didn't realize that JIA was a Mormon.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And that means....that Satan could just be a concept of evil since he is not actually Lucifer unless you are Mormon and believe they are the same through other scriptures.

Just sayin': it's not as clear cut and dry as you want it to be.


I am a Christian.

It's very clear cut:

http://www.gotquestions.org/Lucifer-Satan.html

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
It's very clear cut:

Yes, sense both Lucifer and Satan are mythology, then there is no reason they can't both be Hates.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I am a Christian.

That does not directly answer the question of whether or not you are Mormon. But you are using Mormon-ish arguments for why Lucifer is Satan.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
It's very clear cut:

http://www.gotquestions.org/Lucifer-Satan.html

You obviously did not read the link I sent you because the passage in Isaiah is clearly addressed in what I linked you to.


But, so you can't avoid it, here is the text:

JIA, you seem to be posting the same post in different threads. This kind of posting could be considered to be spam. Please do not get yourself banned.

Originally posted by Robtard
So it's settled, the one prophesied in the OT could be Mohammad, Jesus or someone yet known, depending on personal taste/faith.

Eninn is therefore no more correct/incorrect than you are JIA.


No, nothing is up for grabs here. I've already provided a plethora of Scriptures that show that the Lord Jesus is the fulfillment of Moses' prophecy concerning God raising up a Prophet like him (just go back two posts).

In the book of Acts 3:22 it is recorded that the Apostle Peter cited Moses' announcement about God raising up a Prophet like him (Moses) because he (the Apostle Peter) knew that it was about the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Apostle Peter knew that the Lord Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of that prophecy.


Deuteronomy 18:15

15 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear,


Acts 3:22, 26

22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you.

26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities



God raised up His Son Jesus to be a Prophet like Moses.

In what way was the Lord Jesus a Prophet like Moses?

First, Moses was a deliverer who led the Israelites from captivity to Pharaoh by the power of God. The Lord Jesus is the Deliverer (who Moses foreshadowed and was an Old Testament type of) who leads all who believe in Him by faith from captivity to the wages of sin and death, and from satan by the power of His Father God.

Second, Moses performed many miracles, signs, and wonders by the power of God. The Lord Jesus performed many miracles, signs, and wonders by the power of His Father. The Lord Jesus Christ stated that it was His Father in Him Who did (i.e. performed or accomplished) the works.

Third, Moses introduced the Law to the children of Israel. The Lord Jesus Christ introduced grace and truth (John 1:17), and fulfilled the Law of Moses.

Moreover, the Lord Jesus gave us a new law: the law of love.



Romans 13:8

8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law . 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.



The law of love fulfills the Law of Moses in that it not only supersedes it, but makes many of its precepts and ordinances obsolete through love.

You see, if you love God then you will not have any other gods before Him. So God doesn't have to tell a believer under the New Testament,



Exodus 20:3

“You shall have no other gods before Me.



In addition, if a Christian loves his neighbor (as the law of love commands) then he will not steal from him, murder him, or covet his wife etc.

Lastly, after Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandments his face shone (i.e. illuminated with the glory of God).



Exodus 34:29
Now it was so, when Moses came down from Mount Sinai (and the two tablets of the Testimony were in Moses’ hand when he came down from the mountain), that Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone while he talked with Him.


Exodus 34:30
So when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone , and they were afraid to come near him.


Exodus 34:35
And whenever the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses’ face shone, then Moses would put the veil on his face again, until he went in to speak with Him.




The Lord Jesus experienced the same phenomenon as Moses except the Lord's glory was infinitely greater.

Moses’ face shone with the glory of God, but Jesus' face and clothes shone and illuminated with the glory of God.



Mark 9:2-7

2 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John, and led them up on a high mountain apart by themselves; and He was transfigured before them.

3 His clothes became shining, exceedingly white, like snow, such as no launderer on earth can whiten them.

4 And Elijah appeared to them with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus.

5 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah”—

6 because he did not know what to say, for they were greatly afraid.

7 And a cloud came and overshadowed them; and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!” 8 Suddenly, when they had looked around, they saw no one anymore, but only Jesus with themselves.



Not only did the Lord Jesus' face shine, but the Bible reveals that it shone like the sun, and Jesus' clothes became exceedingly white, like snow, such as no launderer on earth can whiten them.

So not only did the Lord's face shine like Moses (but brighter--like the sun), but His clothes shined with the same intensity as His face.

Both happened in connection with a high mountain while being in the Presence of God.

Noticed that the Father God from a bright cloud commanded the disciples to Hear Him (meaning Jesus). This was also a fulfillment of the prophecy spoken by Moses in Deuteronomy 18.




Deuteronomy 18:15

15 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear,




So God fulfilled the prophecy of Moses, raised up a Prophet like Moses, and confirmed from the cloud He (i.e. the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth) it is who the disciples should hear.

Originally posted by The Rover
...Those last two videos are full of some of the most ludicrous and hate-filled drivel that I've ever seen.

...and they don't even realize that.

Originally posted by The Rover
...Those last two videos are full of some of the most ludicrous and hate-filled drivel that I've ever seen.

I don't follow you.

What about this:



http://bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm

kiL4ClvshN0

http://www.almightywind.com/whatsnew/071112buddhist.htm

NyTFtSl0IoI

Ask Jesus Christ (Yeshua Mashiach) to reveal to you the truth about Muhammad Ibn `Abd Allāh Ibn `Abd al-Muttalib, Siddhârtha Gautama Buddha, and all other false religions that lead people away from the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and into Hell.



and this is hate-filled?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I don't follow you.

What about this:...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
...and they don't even realize that.

Thank you for proving my point.

Mormonism is not the way, truth, or life.

All its adherents end up in Hell.

Please, ask Jesus Christ to save you from your sins.

9X3HbndmpfE

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Mormonism is not the way, truth, or life...

I believe that is true for all Christianity.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Mormonism is not the way, truth, or life.

IIRC, Mormons accept Jesus as their one true savior, ergo by your own beliefs they go to heaven. Condolences, you're sharing heaven with people who wear silly undergarments.

Originally posted by Robtard
IIRC, Mormons accept Jesus as their one true savior, ergo by your own beliefs they go to heaven. Condolences, you're sharing heaven with people who wear silly undergarments.

According to South Park, they are the only people in heaven.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Mormonism is not the way, truth, or life.

All its adherents end up in Hell.

Please, ask Jesus Christ to save you from your sins.

9X3HbndmpfE


Jeremiah 8:8

"How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain."

Here's a newer translation of that Middle English:

"How can you say, 'We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,' when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?"



Basically, even the bible admits that it is imperfect and full of lies because of what various "scribes" have done to the word over the years. Sometimes, it is written down corrupted from the beginning. Sometimes, it takes years. Sometimes, it is lost. The bible is not the end all be all and it is very imperfect.



But, there are plenty of LAD experiences from Mormons who visit the afterlife in spirit form. So, by the logical fallacy of argumentum ad populum, I reject your single questionable source and submit to you the body of "evidence" that says Mormons go to heaven.



"The judgment reported by Mormon near-death experiencers is essentially a self-judgment. This self-judgment is similar to the reported life reviews and self-judgment that are reported in near-death experiences. Experiencers report that they see a panoramic review of their entire life and then judge their own actions while awash in the "unconditional love" of the Being of Light. After the judgment, the spirit dwells with others that are most like it (Eyre, 1991). As with many other religious groups, Mormon near-death experiencers consistently report meeting with deceased family members, and being in the presence of a being of light which they call God. However, some Mormon near-death experiencers report two events that appear to be uncommon with non-Mormon experiencers. They report that they are requested to do something in the world, when they return to life, by the personage(s) they encounter during their experience. They also report that they receive religious and other types of instructions from the "other world" beings (Lundahl, 1982).

According to Lundahl (1982), members of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints report a high number of near-death experiences per capita of their religion. The high number of reported near-death experiences is probably due to the social values of the Latter-day Saints which encourages individuals to share their near-death experiences much more openly than most other social groups (p.166). Mormons interpret the near-death experiences as part of their religious beliefs and a glimpse of life after death."

Dr. David San Filippo

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/articles013.html





Originally posted by Shakyamunison
According to South Park, they are the only people in heaven.



Every now and then, my brother and I watch that episode for nostalgia. Good times.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Jeremiah 8:8

"How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain."

Here's a newer translation of that Middle English:

"How can you say, 'We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,' when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?"



Basically, even the bible admits that it is imperfect and full of lies because of what various "scribes" have done to the word over the years. Sometimes, it is written down corrupted from the beginning. Sometimes, it takes years. Sometimes, it is lost. The bible is not the end all be all and it is very imperfect.



But, there are plenty of LAD experiences from Mormons who visit the afterlife in spirit form. So, by the logical fallacy of argumentum ad populum, I reject your single questionable source and submit to you the body of "evidence" that says Mormons go to heaven.



"The judgment reported by Mormon near-death experiencers is essentially a self-judgment. This self-judgment is similar to the reported life reviews and self-judgment that are reported in near-death experiences. Experiencers report that they see a panoramic review of their entire life and then judge their own actions while awash in the "unconditional love" of the Being of Light. After the judgment, the spirit dwells with others that are most like it (Eyre, 1991). As with many other religious groups, Mormon near-death experiencers consistently report meeting with deceased family members, and being in the presence of a being of light which they call God. However, some Mormon near-death experiencers report two events that appear to be uncommon with non-Mormon experiencers. They report that they are requested to do something in the world, when they return to life, by the personage(s) they encounter during their experience. They also report that they receive religious and other types of instructions from the "other world" beings (Lundahl, 1982).

According to Lundahl (1982), members of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints report a high number of near-death experiences per capita of their religion. The high number of reported near-death experiences is probably due to the social values of the Latter-day Saints which encourages individuals to share their near-death experiences much more openly than most other social groups (p.166). Mormons interpret the near-death experiences as part of their religious beliefs and a glimpse of life after death."

Dr. David San Filippo

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/articles013.html


So, if you believe in NDE, you would have to except the testimony of Mormons who have had NDEs.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, if you believe in NDE, you would have to except the testimony of Mormons who have had NDEs.

As a skeptic, I would have to accept that some to all of the NDEs are not exactly as they are portrayed while being a Mormon means I have to leave the possibility open for NDEs confirming my religious bias.

Originally posted by dadudemon
As a skeptic, I would have to accept that some to all of the NDEs are not exactly as they are portrayed while being a Mormon means I have to leave the possibility open for NDEs confirming my religious bias.

I understand, but it is an interesting wedge.

Originally posted by dadudemon
...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Mormonism is not the way, truth, or life.

All its adherents end up in Hell.

Please, ask Jesus Christ to save you from your sins.

9X3HbndmpfE

Did you watch this powerful testimony?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
...




Originally posted by dadudemon
Jeremiah 8:8

"How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain."

Here's a newer translation of that Middle English:

"How can you say, 'We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,' when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?"



Basically, even the bible admits that it is imperfect and full of lies because of what various "scribes" have done to the word over the years. Sometimes, it is written down corrupted from the beginning. Sometimes, it takes years. Sometimes, it is lost. The bible is not the end all be all and it is very imperfect.



But, there are plenty of LAD experiences from Mormons who visit the afterlife in spirit form. So, by the logical fallacy of argumentum ad populum, I reject your single questionable source and submit to you the body of "evidence" that says Mormons go to heaven.



"The judgment reported by Mormon near-death experiencers is essentially a self-judgment. This self-judgment is similar to the reported life reviews and self-judgment that are reported in near-death experiences. Experiencers report that they see a panoramic review of their entire life and then judge their own actions while awash in the "unconditional love" of the Being of Light. After the judgment, the spirit dwells with others that are most like it (Eyre, 1991). As with many other religious groups, Mormon near-death experiencers consistently report meeting with deceased family members, and being in the presence of a being of light which they call God. However, some Mormon near-death experiencers report two events that appear to be uncommon with non-Mormon experiencers. They report that they are requested to do something in the world, when they return to life, by the personage(s) they encounter during their experience. They also report that they receive religious and other types of instructions from the "other world" beings (Lundahl, 1982).

According to Lundahl (1982), members of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints report a high number of near-death experiences per capita of their religion. The high number of reported near-death experiences is probably due to the social values of the Latter-day Saints which encourages individuals to share their near-death experiences much more openly than most other social groups (p.166). Mormons interpret the near-death experiences as part of their religious beliefs and a glimpse of life after death."

Dr. David San Filippo

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/articles013.html

Did you read this powerful post?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Mormonism is not the way, truth, or life.

All its adherents end up in Hell.

Please, ask Jesus Christ to save you from your sins.

* look JIA, i'm a Christian and i don't even agree with you... attacking other religious belief that does not use the Bible as basis is stupid because there is no point of argument... even if you throw gazillions of Bible verses, it won't matter...

* and YOU don't tell anyone who goes to hell and who goes to heaven... you're not God... in fact - since you use the Bible - God is the Savior of ALL people, believers and non-believers (I Timothy 4:10)...

Originally posted by peejayd
* look JIA, i'm a Christian and i don't even agree with you... attacking other religious belief that does not use the Bible as basis is stupid because there is no point of argument... even if you throw gazillions of Bible verses, it won't matter...

Thanks, man. You're good people.

I would note, however, that Mormons do use the bible and quite often. We just consider the Book of Mormon to be on relatively equal grounds as the bible, spiritually.

Originally posted by peejayd
* and YOU don't tell anyone who goes to hell and who goes to heaven... you're not God... in fact - since you use the Bible - God is the Savior of ALL people, believers and non-believers (I Timothy 4:10)...

OH SNAP! lol

But, yes, this is what I communicated to Batdude in another thread.


peejayd, I have a question.


Will people like Shakyamunison be saved by Christ's atonement? Meaning, will he go to heaven when he dies? I think Shakya has lived a good enough life and lived it well enough that he should (I cannot judge). But he doesn't believe that Jesus is his Savior and so forth.


For me, this has been a gray area of mine, for years. I do not know for sure. God knows the content of man's heart, right? Or He is supposed to. So only He can know for sure if that man rejected the gospel. What I mean is "truly rejected" where the individual received testimony from the Holy Ghost, recognized it as eternal truth, and then rejected it. I feel that, for many atheists, most of them did not receive that truth, quite yet. That means I don't think they would be "doomed" as some Christians put it. I still think there is hope for them as well as everyone. I choose to believe in a omnibenevolent God rather than a mean petty God...without solid evidence.

you said mohammed and Buddha but I don't see anything about them here

I think a lot of confusion disappears if the Bible and other holy writings are interpreted metaphorically, especially within the mystical / consciousness context. For example:

To "sin," to "reject" the Gospel, etc is to live one's life on autopilot: automatic / mechanical / habitual consciousness, ie, ordinary consciousness where we are lost in inner dialogue, out of touch with the here-and-now, and certainly out-of-touch with our deepest feelings, wherein "God" may be found. Jesus is the Way and the Truth in that he is a metaphor for rising out of this functional trance we live in, and becoming self- or situationally aware, ie, becoming conscious of being conscious. This is the common thread, the universal truth in all mystical systems, the perinnial philosophy. Now because "training one's attention" is highly intangible and can be difficult to grasp, which is where (imho) organized religion comes in (at least as initial intent): translating this intangible into simplified ("watered down" instruction and concrete behaviors, so that the common man, especially en masse -- who generally has more immediate survival/material concerns to deal with -- can apply these truths in some fashion in his life.

Problems arise when these watered-down instructions are taken literally, and problems mount exponentially when "sinful" people use them to feel superior to and to control others.

I wrote this quick so I hope it makes sense.

Originally posted by Mindship
I think a lot of confusion disappears if the Bible and other holy writings are interpreted metaphorically, especially within the mystical / consciousness context. For example:

To "sin," to "reject" the Gospel, etc is to live one's life on autopilot: automatic / mechanical / habitual consciousness, ie, ordinary consciousness where we are lost in inner dialogue, out of touch with the here-and-now, and certainly out-of-touch with our deepest feelings, wherein "God" may be found. Jesus is the Way and the Truth in that he is a metaphor for rising out of this functional trance we live in, and becoming self- or situationally aware, ie, becoming conscious of being conscious. This is the common thread, the universal truth in all mystical systems, the perinnial philosophy. Now because "training one's attention" is highly intangible and can be difficult to grasp, which is where (imho) organized religion comes in (at least as initial intent): translating this intangible into simplified ("watered down" instruction and concrete behaviors, so that the common man, especially en masse -- who generally has more immediate survival/material concerns to deal with -- can apply these truths in some fashion in his life.

Problems arise when these watered-down instructions are taken literally, and problems mount exponentially when "sinful" people use them to feel superior to and to control others.

I wrote this quick so I hope it makes sense.

No, that makes sense. All of the major positive religions are about some form of enlightenment/transcendental consciousness.

Originally posted by dadudemon
...Will people like Shakyamunison be saved by Christ's atonement? Meaning, will he go to heaven when he dies? I think Shakya has lived a good enough life and lived it well enough that he should (I cannot judge). But he doesn't believe that Jesus is his Savior and so forth.


For me, this has been a gray area of mine, for years. I do not know for sure. God knows the content of man's heart, right? Or He is supposed to. So only He can know for sure if that man rejected the gospel. What I mean is "truly rejected" where the individual received testimony from the Holy Ghost, recognized it as eternal truth, and then rejected it. I feel that, for many atheists, most of them did not receive that truth, quite yet. That means I don't think they would be "doomed" as some Christians put it. I still think there is hope for them as well as everyone. I choose to believe in a omnibenevolent God rather than a mean petty God...without solid evidence.

dadudemon, lets cover all the bases. When I die, have me baptised.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
dadudemon, lets cover all the bases. When I die, have me baptised.




Nice.

Originally posted by dadudemon
peejayd, I have a question.

Will people like Shakyamunison be saved by Christ's atonement? Meaning, will he go to heaven when he dies? I think Shakya has lived a good enough life and lived it well enough that he should (I cannot judge). But he doesn't believe that Jesus is his Savior and so forth.

For me, this has been a gray area of mine, for years. I do not know for sure. God knows the content of man's heart, right? Or He is supposed to. So only He can know for sure if that man rejected the gospel. What I mean is "truly rejected" where the individual received testimony from the Holy Ghost, recognized it as eternal truth, and then rejected it. I feel that, for many atheists, most of them did not receive that truth, quite yet. That means I don't think they would be "doomed" as some Christians put it. I still think there is hope for them as well as everyone. I choose to believe in a omnibenevolent God rather than a mean petty God...without solid evidence.

* according to the Bible, as i've said before, God is the Savior of all people, believer or non-believer (I Timothy 4:10), God desires all people to be saved (I Timothy 2:3-4) and He does not wish anyone to perish (II Peter 3:9)... with that kind of character, eventhough a person does not believe in Jesus - like Shakya - that person can be saved...

* but of course, the basis of judgment is different from a believer... and yes, God can search the mind and try the heart (Jeremiah 17:9-10), only He can know if a person is truly a good person or bad... what is the basis? since the person is not a believer, God will not judge him according to his faith, but rather according to his works (James 2:24, Romans 2:13)... it does not matter if the person heard the Gospel or not, but what's more important is if he was obeying the Gospel or not...

* maybe you're next question is, how can a person know the Gospel without hearing it first? in Romans 2:15, God already wrote a law in our hearts, that's why eventhough we have not heard any law, Gospel or preaching, we know deep inside our hearts that it's wrong to kill, to steal, and to do other bad things... we have conscience...

* there are atheists that because of their culture/custom, was deprived to know the existence of God, which is obviously pardonable, God is a God of mercy and righteousness, right? but there are also atheist that really knows there is God but because of stubbornness, pride and wise in his own conceit, chooses to reject the existence of God - and that is foolish (Psalms 14:1, 53:1)...

Originally posted by peejayd
* according to the Bible, as i've said before, God is the Savior of all people, believer or non-believer (I Timothy 4:10), God desires all people to be saved (I Timothy 2:3-4) and He does not wish anyone to perish (II Peter 3:9)... with that kind of character, eventhough a person does not believe in Jesus - like Shakya - that person can be saved...

* but of course, the basis of judgment is different from a believer... and yes, God can search the mind and try the heart (Jeremiah 17:9-10), only He can know if a person is truly a good person or bad... what is the basis? since the person is not a believer, God will not judge him according to his faith, but rather according to his works (James 2:24, Romans 2:13)... it does not matter if the person heard the Gospel or not, but what's more important is if he was obeying the Gospel or not...

* maybe you're next question is, how can a person know the Gospel without hearing it first? in Romans 2:15, God already wrote a law in our hearts, that's why eventhough we have not heard any law, Gospel or preaching, we know deep inside our hearts that it's wrong to kill, to steal, and to do other bad things... we have conscience...

* there are atheists that because of their culture/custom, was deprived to know the existence of God, which is obviously pardonable, God is a God of mercy and righteousness, right? but there are also atheist that really knows there is God but because of stubbornness, pride and wise in his own conceit, chooses to reject the existence of God - and that is foolish (Psalms 14:1, 53:1)...

Peejayd, are you a Mormon?

If so, can you tell me whether Mormons abide by, uphold, believe, or keep the teachings, beliefs, or messages found in the following works:

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith
The Doctrine and Covenants
The Journal of Discourses
The Pearl of Great Price
The history of The Church

Are these considered official Mormon works as far as church doctrine, beliefs, and tenets?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Peejayd, are you a Mormon?

* no, i'm not... and as a Christian, please don't tell people if they'll go to heaven or hell --- you are not God, please understand, ok?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Did you read this powerful post?


Can you tell me whether Mormons abide by, uphold, believe, or keep the teachings, beliefs, or messages found in the following works:

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith
The Doctrine and Covenants
The Journal of Discourses
The Pearl of Great Price
The history of The Church

Are these considered official Mormon works as far as church doctrine, beliefs, and tenets?

Originally posted by peejayd
* no, i'm not... and as a Christian, please don't tell people if they'll go to heaven or hell --- you are not God, please understand, ok?

Are you of any particular denomination?

* yes, Members Church of God International... mcgi.org...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Are you of any particular denomination?

What is your denomination? It seems like a fair question, sense you have asked someone else that.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What is your denomination? It seems like a fair question, sense you have asked someone else that.

I am non-denominational.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I am non-denominational.

Then you are going to hell.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then you are going to hell.

* THIS --- made me lol...

Originally posted by peejayd
* THIS --- made me lol...

Now if I can just get JIA to laugh.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Now if I can just get JIA to laugh.

I'll laugh, but not at what you posted.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I'll laugh, but not at what you posted.





But it was funny. I assume you believe in direct church linage from Jesus, but you are not a member of any of the churches that might be in direct linage. That's hilarious!

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But it was funny. I assume you believe in direct church linage from Jesus, but you are not a member of any of the churches that might be in direct linage. That's hilarious!

I believe that Jesus Christ instituted the ekklesia (i.e. called out ones) or church.

I'm not sure I follow what you mean by direct lineage.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I believe that Jesus Christ instituted the ekklesia (i.e. called out ones) or church.

I'm not sure I follow what you mean by direct lineage.

Well, if you are not part of the church that Jesus established (direct lineage), then you might as well be a Mormon.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Well, if you are not part of the church that Jesus established (direct lineage), then you might as well be a Mormon.

No disrespect to Mormons, but I'm definitely not a Mormon.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No disrespect to Mormons, but I'm definitely not a Mormon.

The Mormon thing was just a friendly jab.

How can you say you are going to heaven when you are not a part of the true church?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The Mormon thing was just a friendly jab.

How can you say you are going to heaven when you are not a part of the true church?

Fairly simple: my faith is not in the church...my faith is in a Person--Jesus Christ!

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Jeremiah 8:8 does not support your claim that the Bible is not perfect (i.e. the infallible Word of the living God).

If Jeremiah 8:8 were a proof text to support your premise then the entire Jewish nation of Israel, all of the Old Testament prophets, all of the prophecies, the Lord Jesus Christ, His apostles, and all of His disciples would not have referred to it, quoted it, and lived their lives according to it (i.e. the Law of Moses and other Scriptures that constitute the canon of the Bible)


Actually, it directly supports that the bible is fallacious as the scribes themselves are clearly referenced as having an agenda, ignorant, or are deliberately being bad with the word.

The "word" you profess to be so inerrant and perfect says it is not by referencing the scribes responsible for the "word".


Sorry, JIA, but you cannot have your cake and eat it, too. The bible is full of problems. Historical, scientific, theologically, etc. Sure, sometimes, jerks try twist the meanings and words (sometimes, knowingly, which is obviously evil) to make contradictions, but other times...yeah...there are clear problems and contradictions.


Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I'm not sure I follow what you mean by direct lineage.

Mormons and Catholics can trace their priesthood all the way back to Christ.

As far as I am aware, we are the only two types of churches that can do this.

I know who my father was ordained by, I know who ordained that person. I know who ordained that person. I know who ordained that person. I know who ordained that person. And I know Jesus Christ Ordained that person.


So we can trace our priesthood lineage all the way back to Christ. Mormons just think that the Catholic Church apostatized and lost the priesthood power.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Actually, it directly supports that the bible is fallacious as the scribes themselves are clearly referenced as having an agenda, ignorant, or are deliberately being bad with the word.

The "word" you profess to be so inerrant and perfect says it is not by referencing the scribes responsible for the "word".


Sorry, JIA, but you cannot have your cake and eat it, too. The bible is full of problems. Historical, scientific, theologically, etc. Sure, sometimes, jerks try twist the meanings and words (sometimes, knowingly, which is obviously evil) to make contradictions, but other times...yeah...there are clear problems and contradictions.




Mormons and Catholics can trace their priesthood all the way back to Christ.

As far as I am aware, we are the only two types of churches that can do this.

I know who my father was ordained by, I know who ordained that person. I know who ordained that person. I know who ordained that person. I know who ordained that person. And I know Jesus Christ Ordained that person.


So we can trace our priesthood lineage all the way back to Christ. Mormons just think that the Catholic Church apostatized and lost the priesthood power.

I will address the issue of Bible infallibility but first I want to touch on the issue of priests in Mormonism.

Priest? What is the purpose of Mormons being priests? (I have much to say but I need to lay the foundation first).

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I will address the issue of Bible infallibility but first I want to touch on the issue of priests in Mormonism.

Priest? What is the purpose of Mormons being priests? (I have much to say but I need to lay the foundation first).

Let me clarify your foundation, first. Why is it important to know what the purpose of "priests" in CoJCoLDS is? Can you not know that from reading the bible?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Fairly simple: my faith is not in the church...my faith is in a Person--Jesus Christ!



But the church is Jesus, according to the bible. That means if you are not a member of the true Church (not just believe), then you cannot go to heaven.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But the church is Jesus, according to the bible. That means if you are not a member of the true Church (not just believe), then you cannot go to heaven.

The church is not Jesus literally but metaphorically, in a spiritual sense.

We are referred to as the body of Christ to illustrate how we are to work together in accomplishing His will on earth (i.e. proclaiming the gospel, spreading His love, growing spiritually, walking in love etc.) as His hands, eyes, feet, and mouthpiece.

However, one's salvation is not based on church membership or belonging to any particular group.

Salvation is based on one's personal relationship with the Savior Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The church is not Jesus literally but metaphorically, in a spiritual sense.

We are referred to as the body of Christ to illustrate how we are to work together in accomplishing His will on earth (i.e. proclaiming the gospel, spreading His love, growing spiritually, walking in love etc.) as His hands, eyes, feet, and mouthpiece.

However, one's salvation is not based on church membership or belonging to any particular group.

Salvation is based on one's personal relationship with the Savior Jesus Christ.

But you cannot have a relationship with Jesus unless you are a member of his body, and that is the church.

Based on Christian mythology.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Let me clarify your foundation, first. Why is it important to know what the purpose of "priests" in CoJCoLDS is? Can you not know that from reading the bible?

It is important for me to know what the purpose of priests in Mormonism is because I don't believe they are necessary.

As touching me knowing from reading the Bible, according to you the Bible is fallible, so how can I know anything from reading it?

Besides, the Bible's purpose for the Aaronic-Levitical, Old Covenant/Testament priesthood had a definite purpose that I do not believe it has anymore.

So, can you as a Mormon inform me what the purpose is for priests in your religion?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But you cannot have a relationship with Jesus unless you are a member of his body, and that is the church.

Based on Christian mythology.

My relationship with Jesus Christ is not because I am a member of His body, it is because I believe on Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, as my Redeemer and God.

My relationship with Jesus Christ began with my confession of faith that Jesus Christ is Lord (my Lord), and that I believe that God has raised Him from the dead.

I repented from my sins and turned towards Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord. When I did this by faith the Holy Spirit baptized me into the body of Christ, and I became a (spiritual) member of Christ's body i.e. the church.

So a person does not become a member of the body of Christ and then have a relationship with Christ, a person has a relationship with Christ first--and then becomes a member of the body of Christ.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
My relationship with Jesus Christ is not because I am a member of His body, it is because I believe on Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, as my Redeemer and God.

My relationship with Jesus Christ began with my confession of faith that Jesus Christ is Lord (my Lord), and that I believe that God has raised Him from the dead.

I repented from my sins and turned towards Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord. When I did this by faith the Holy Spirit baptized me into the body of Christ, and I became a (spiritual) member of Christ's body i.e. the church.

So a person does not become a member of the body of Christ and then have a relationship with Christ, a person has a relationship with Christ first--and then becomes a member of the body of Christ.

Both you and I have something in common. We are both not Christians.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Both you and I have something in common. We are both not Christians.

You've missed something.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
My relationship with Jesus Christ is not because I am a member of His body, it is because I believe on Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, as my Redeemer and God.

My relationship with Jesus Christ began with my confession of faith that Jesus Christ is Lord (my Lord), and that I believe that God has raised Him from the dead.

I repented from my sins and turned towards Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord. When I did this by faith the Holy Spirit baptized me into the body of Christ, and I became a (spiritual) member of Christ's body i.e. the church.

So a person does not become a member of the body of Christ and then have a relationship with Christ, a person has a relationship with Christ first--and then becomes a member of the body of Christ.

I am a Christian.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You've missed something.



I am a Christian.

No you are not.

You are like the coffee house Buddhist who when asked what school of Buddhism they follow, say "I just try to live a good life".

You are a coffee house Christian. You don't belong to any church, but you just try to live a good life.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No you are not.

You are like the coffee house Buddhist who when asked what school of Buddhism they follow, say "I just try to live a good life".

You are a coffee house Christian. You don't belong to any church, but you just try to live a good life.

There is only one church (i.e. one spiritual organism of those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ).

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There is only one church (i.e. one spiritual organism of those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ).


Too bad you are not a member.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Too bad you are not a member.

What constitutes membership to you and to the Bible are too different things.

According to the Bible I am a member of the spiritual body of Christ, and hence a Christian.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What constitutes membership to you and to the Bible are too different things.

According to the Bible I am a member of the spiritual body of Christ, and hence a Christian.

You can't have the sacrament (lord's supper) by yourself.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You can't have the sacrament (lord's supper) by yourself.

That's not the issue.

The issue is whether I am a Christian or not, and based on what I've previously told you I am.

You didn't ask me whether I attend church though which I do.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That's not the issue.

The issue is whether I am a Christian or not, and based on what I've previously told you I am.

You didn't ask me whether I attend church though which I do.

Without the lord's supper, you cannot be in the body of Jesus.



Christianity can be so... distasteful.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Without the lord's supper, you cannot be in the body of Jesus.



Christianity can be so... distasteful.

Communion does not save a person from their sins, although whenever my church has communion I participate.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Communion does not save a person from their sins, although whenever my church has communion I participate.
Wait! You told me you were not in a church.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Wait! You told me you were not in a church.

I think you should define church as you understand it because I don't recall posting that.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
It is important for me to know what the purpose of priests in Mormonism is because I don't believe they are necessary.

But can you not know that from reading the bible? Let me rephrase...why can't you just read about it in the bible to know for what purpose they serve?


Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
As touching me knowing from reading the Bible, according to you the Bible is fallible, so how can I know anything from reading it?

Well, the way you word it, it does not sound quite what I said. The bible is full of problems and contradictions, but the entire thing is not "fallible". Consider it more like a history book, on the spiritual, that was written by experts and layman, over thousands of years. Obviously, there will be tons of problems, but the general ideas/teachings would be captured for the most part.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Besides, the Bible's purpose for the Aaronic-Levitical, Old Covenant/Testament priesthood had a definite purpose that I do not believe it has anymore.

And what were those purposes?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So, can you as a Mormon inform me what the purpose is for priests in your religion?


I do believe I have answered your question already but you don't really want to acknowledge it. I am putting the burden on you because you claim to want to open my eyes. So, tell me, what was the purpose of all priesthood holders in the bible (old and new testaments)?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I think you should define church as you understand it because I don't recall posting that.

A particular Christian organization founded by Jesus.

What is the denomination of your church?


Denomination:
A recognized autonomous branch of the Christian Church.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
A particular Christian organization founded by Jesus.

What is the denomination of your church?


Denomination:
A recognized autonomous branch of the Christian Church.



I don't belong to any Christian organizations because Christianity is not an organization it is a Person. Hence, I am not affiliated with any denomination.

Besides, denominations don't save a person Christ does.

Moreover, when I use the word church I am not referring to a denomination I am talking about those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, or the physical sanctuary building where said persons congregate.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I don't belong to any Christian organizations because Christianity is not an organization it is a Person. Hence, I am not affiliated with any denomination.

Besides, denominations don't save a person Christ does.

Moreover, when I use the word church I am not referring to a denomination I am talking about those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, or the physical sanctuary building where said persons congregate.



I know understand: You are a member of a cult.

Originally posted by dadudemon
But can you not know that from reading the bible? Let me rephrase...why can't you just read about it in the bible to know for what purpose they serve?




Well, the way you word it, it does not sound quite what I said. The bible is full of problems and contradictions, but the entire thing is not "fallible". Consider it more like a history book, on the spiritual, that was written by experts and layman, over thousands of years. Obviously, there will be tons of problems, but the general ideas/teachings would be captured for the most part.



And what were those purposes?



I do believe I have answered your question already but you don't really want to acknowledge it. I am putting the burden on you because you claim to want to open my eyes. So, tell me, what was the purpose of all priesthood holders in the bible (old and new testaments)?

I can read about the priesthood in the Bible and I already have, but that still does not answer my question concerning why there are priests in Mormonism.

In the Old Testament the high priest on earth was the mediator between God and the children of Israel. The high priest's job was primarily to sacrifice certain animals for his sins and for the sins of the people, and use its blood to atone for his sins and for the sins (both willful and inadvertent) of the people, so that God could have a relationship with them.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
...Question: did Jesus Christ belong to a Christian organization?...

He was the human who started Christianity. In other words, he was a cult leader. The only reason we don't call Christianity a cult today is because it has become so popular

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
He was the human who started Christianity. In other words, he was a cult leader. The only reason we don't call Christianity a cult today is because it has become so popular

Jesus Christ is divine.

Jesus Christ is true God and true Man. Both natures simultaneously.

This is true of no other person in the history of the creation of the universe.

Jesus Christ is the Great God and Savior.

Jesus Christ is Lord.