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Luke encounters Vitiate and he assumes that Luke is just another Jedi Master. Fight to the death and everything goes.

really?

Originally posted by truejedi
really?


That would, admittedly, be an interesting fight to see.

Shame that Karpyshyn castrated the True Sith Order/Species.

I'm sure if they were like the True Sith Kreia had eluded to, Ragnos-esque, that the Dark Lord of the True Sith Empire would have given Luke one hell of a run for his money.

taking into account the number of times that Luke killed various incarnations of Abeloth ALONE, i don't see how vitiate can win.

He very likely wouldn't.
Vitiate's only salvation is to enthrall Luke, who managed to resist {ultimately, though not initially} compulsion from UnuThul. But without prep-time and an enemy who underestimates him, the odds of success are slim.

Once it comes down to the crossing of blades and hurling of objects, Vitiate is crushed.

Originally posted by truejedi
taking into account the number of times that Luke killed various incarnations of Abeloth ALONE, i don't see how vitiate can win.
Actually this isn't the whole picture.

Luke did destroyed several bodies which Abeloth possessed but this happened due to Abeloth's reckless attempts to subdue Luke with physical means and Luke used the surroundings to damage the possessed bodies.

In addition, Abeloth also got chances to kill Luke but wasted the opportunities - blame the story arc, I guess.

Vitiate isn't much different from Abeloth in capabilities with the plus point of being not so reckless like her. Granted that he can make miscalculations too but same is true for Luke.

This fight will be challenging for Luke.

Originally posted by ybrotes_Sargon
He very likely wouldn't.
Diagreed. Luke is no GOD and neither invincible.

Originally posted by ybrotes_Sargon
Vitiate's only salvation is to enthrall Luke, who managed to resist {ultimately, though not initially} compulsion from UnuThul. But without prep-time and an enemy who underestimates him, the odds of success are slim.
Luke countered UnuThul's influence by using his PAST history with UnuThul against him. Luke has no history with Vitiate.

Originally posted by ybrotes_Sargon Once it comes down to the crossing of blades and hurling of objects, Vitiate is crushed.
Vitiate can handle Luke with the Force. However, Luke may find a way to stab Vitiate. At the most - Vitiate's physical body will be terminated. But not Vitiate himself.

Luke did destroyed several bodies which Abeloth possessed but this happened due to Abeloth's reckless attempts to subdue Luke with physical means and Luke used the surroundings to damage the possessed bodies.
In addition, Abeloth also got chances to kill Luke but wasted the opportunities - blame the story arc, I guess.
In which fight she tried to recklessly subdue Luke? All her attempts were before fights started. Surroundings? You mean surroundings, when Sith turned on him and he had to fight both Abeloth and Sith? First time he chased her down and killed. Second time he defeated her by displaying his superior brasilian ju-jitsu skills . The only chance she got was, when he was exhausted after killing her second body.


Taking over bodies and imprisoning souls. Controlling multiple bodies simultaneously, while in different parts of galaxy(multiple entity). Being more powerful, than either Son and Daughter, requiring their combined effort to be defeated, while The Ones are the most powerful Force entities known. Ye, isn't much different.

He didn't give definite answer to be disagreed. Is it that necessary to disagree on opinions that are close to neutral?
And to be honest Luke is as close to GOD as EU character could be. Potential inherited from chosen one, miraculous Force exhausting feats, lightsaber badass, good personality and high morals. There is simply no room for improvement.

Neither did Abeloth.



Surprisingly you are right. Jedi don't overpower but strike down foes with lightsaber. I am, also, of opinion that Vitiate can handle Luke with the Force but not for long.

Why you even bring the topic about spirits and avatars? It would be counted as loss anyway.
Also, with loss of original body Vitiate will suck as he will never find new body as strong as his original and will need to consume another planet, which will be unlikely with weaker body.

Originally posted by Arhael
And to be honest Luke is as close to GOD as EU character could be. Potential inherited from chosen one, miraculous Force exhausting feats, lightsaber badass, good personality and high morals. There is simply no room for improvement.


Luke FTW

There's definitely room for improvement: Abeloth and arguably the Ones/Anchorites/Force Wielders are more powerful.

Originally posted by ybrotes_Sargon
There's definitely room for improvement: Abeloth and arguably the Ones/Anchorites/Force Wielders are more powerful.
But would he still be a Jedi after that? Power corrupts. He could have become much more powerful as Sith but power wouldn't grant him as much victories as lightside did.

Given that Anakin's potential surpasses all the above, I'm sure Luke could become stronger in the Force without surrendering his allegiance to the Jedi.

Originally posted by ybrotes_Sargon
Given that Anakin's potential surpasses all the above, I'm sure Luke could become stronger in the Force without surrendering his allegiance to the Jedi.
In Fate of The Jedi series many times he ended up being Force exhausted and continued fighting and using the Force even after that at expense of his cells burning out, which implies that he tested his limits in a way Marek did. In last book he got electrocuted by Abeloth touching him right into chest for quite long time and he not only survived it but had enough strength to Force pull three Sith into a pit. God, there must be some immense power to survive lightning of supposedly the most powerful Force being.
Really the only way to gain even greater power would be to become Sith. Alternatively, he could bath in Pool of Knowledge or/and drink from Font of Power, which would make him as powerful as Abeloth but both sources are darkside nexuses, they corrupt. It is unclear, if he would retain his sanity and as we know insane person cannot think adequately. For example, Abeloth at beginning wasn't bad, there was mutual love and caring between her and the Ones.

Originally posted by Arhael
Taking over bodies and imprisoning souls. Controlling multiple bodies simultaneously, while in different parts of galaxy(multiple entity).
Now do some digging about:

1. Voice of the Emperor
2. Emperor's Hand
3. Children of the Emperor
4. First son of the Emperor
5. Vitiate's hold over his Elite Guard

Originally posted by Arhael
Being more powerful, than either Son and Daughter, requiring their combined effort to be defeated, while The Ones are the most powerful Force entities known. Ye, isn't much different.
Abeloth is very powerful. No question about this. However, power alone does not makes you highly effective combatant. Smart decision-making is very important too. Abeloth isn't very smart. But Vitiate is.

Originally posted by Arhael
He didn't give definite answer to be disagreed. Is it that necessary to disagree on opinions that are close to neutral?
And to be honest Luke is as close to GOD as EU character could be. Potential inherited from chosen one, miraculous Force exhausting feats, lightsaber badass, good personality and high morals. There is simply no room for improvement.
Correction: Luke is an over-hyped gary-stu whose story is being prolonged for revenue generation and his iconic status in the mythos. If his power and skills alone are to be put to test, he would have been DEAD.

Originally posted by Arhael
Neither did Abeloth.
Provide the details of when and how Abeloth attempts to mind-dominate Luke and how he resists her mental powers.

Originally posted by Arhael
Surprisingly you are right. Jedi don't overpower but strike down foes with lightsaber. I am, also, of opinion that Vitiate can handle Luke with the Force but not for long.
Vitiate can handle Luke with the Force. Long-term Force based duel will not work in Luke's favor. His best chance is to find a way to stab Vitiate and fast.

Originally posted by Arhael
Why you even bring the topic about spirits and avatars? It would be counted as loss anyway.
Intended point is that Luke's victory will be temporary, IF he wins.

Originally posted by Arhael
Also, with loss of original body Vitiate will suck as he will never find new body as strong as his original and will need to consume another planet, which will be unlikely with weaker body.
Interestingly, Vitiate seldom uses his original body. He prefers to possess other individuals and use them. If we are assuming Vitiate with his original body in this fight - mind you, he will be very effective with his original body.

As far as the possession goes, taking over an individual with high midichlorian count can be good enough for Vitiate's plans. He can augment the power of the possessed individual with his own powers.

No, it is not reckless strategy. First off all she grabbed by legs because she couldn't stay, she didn't have one leg, remember? Second, what else could she do? He would have felt Force attack, so snicking hiding in the Force was the best option.
Then trying to break voice box and drugging nails into ear clearly qualifies as attempt to kill him by choking or breaking throat cartilage. By Luke: "To fail was to die".
So that's what kind of surroundings you meant. Doesn't it qualify as part of combat? Doesn't it show that he is capable to come out of situation, when he is at great disadvantage?
Also, before all that happened he engaged her face to face combat, when he chopped off her arm and leg without need of surroundings and pushed her into a cleft. She lost to him in direct combat and partially succeeded only by sneak up attack.

It is the exact example I mentioned. Also, example of her coming with second body, when he is already Force exhausted(because of sneak attack from behind) hardly qualifies as her being able to kill him without distractions from other sources.

Vitiate could transfer his essence and his essence could be in one place only. Abeloth was fighting Jedi on Coruscant, while exactly at the same time her another essence was fighting Tahiri and Boba Fett. Multiple entity/Mind.

Ahah! Vitiate effective combatant? He simply used advantage of his overwhelming power. Staying in one place giving Force pushes, illusions or Force lightning in its banal form. What cleverness is in that? In no way he was an effective combatant, he simply overpowered others. Abeloth showed her self as smart and cunning as any Sith and beyond.

No less could be expected from an iconic characters. His powers and skills alone were tested countless times in situations, when he was at huge disadvantage and frankly he is still NOT DEAD. Moreover, Vitiate is an over-hyped gary-stu in his own right.

She couldn't. Luke was too powerful for any one to be able to mind dominate him. On the other hand Abeloth did attempt to mind dominate Tahiri but she managed to free from her mental grasp by withdrawing from the Force. Same way Vitiate couldn't mind dominate Jedi Knight second time as he become more powerful after first encounter and Vitiate stated himself that he is immensely powerful.

Jedi Knight's fight with Vitiate was long-term enough before he got stabbed. There is plenty of evidence showing Luke's incredible Force defenses, surely he can do better, than Jedi Knight. Also, he fought together with Krayt against Abeloth beyond shadows, without lightsaber, getting electrocuted straight into chest, engaging her in close combat and giving final blow. Quite long term battle.

It is not clear weather he still got his original body as dark energy inevitably consumes bodies. I actually admit that my assumption about him being weaker in other body is wrong. Abeloth was equally strong in different bodies, seems that power transfers with essence. The only difference was that body with high medichlorian count could last for her much longer.

Originally posted by Arhael
No, it is not reckless strategy. First off all she grabbed by legs because she couldn't stay, she didn't have one leg, remember? Second, what else could she do? He would have felt Force attack, so snicking hiding in the Force was the best option.
Then trying to break voice box and drugging nails into ear clearly qualifies as attempt to kill him by choking or breaking throat cartilage. By Luke: "To fail was to die".
Your assessment is illogical.

Why didn't Abeloth used her Force powers to subdue Luke? Why she exerted physically on Luke? Very idiotic decision-making.

In contrast;

Vitiate bombarded Revan with his Force powers and when Revan was down, he picked up his lightsaber to strike him.

See the difference in decision-making here?

Originally posted by Arhael
So that's what kind of surroundings you meant. Doesn't it qualify as part of combat? Doesn't it show that he is capable to come out of situation, when he is at great disadvantage?
You think that Vitiate cannot use surroundings to support him?

Originally posted by Arhael
Also, before all that happened he engaged her face to face combat, when he chopped off her arm and leg without need of surroundings and pushed her into a cleft. She lost to him in direct combat and partially succeeded only by sneak up attack.
You have misunderstood this segment as well. Abeloth's guard was down and Luke did not wasted any time. She attempted to do something physically and Luke struck her with his lightsaber.

Like it or not, Abeloth is all about raw power and manipulation but not much about effectiveness in combat situations. She clearly lacks in training and discipline of combat.

In contrast;

As soon as Revan entered the chamber of Vitiate and charged towards him, Vitiate started attacking him with his Force powers to prevent him from getting near him and use his lightsaber on him.

Originally posted by Arhael
It is the exact example I mentioned. Also, example of her coming with second body, when he is already Force exhausted(because of sneak attack from behind) hardly qualifies as her being able to kill him without distractions from other sources.
My point is about decision making. She could have killed Luke at that moment when he was vulnerable. She did not. Therefore.......

Originally posted by Arhael
Vitiate could transfer his essence and his essence could be in one place only. Abeloth was fighting Jedi on Coruscant, while exactly at the same time her another essence was fighting Tahiri and Boba Fett. Multiple entity/Mind.
Vitiate can accomplish the same with his telepathic powers. Many individuals were under his spell and they would do what Vitiate wanted them to do. Vitiate could remain in-touch with his puppets through his telepathic powers. It worked like a bond.

This can be clearly noticed in Jedi Knight story of SWTOR. After Vitiate turned the 4 Jedi in to his puppets, he used them separately for different objectives. However, he had complete control over them.

Originally posted by Arhael
Ahah! Vitiate effective combatant? He simply used advantage of his overwhelming power. Staying in one place giving Force pushes, illusions or Force lightning in its banal form. What cleverness is in that? In no way he was an effective combatant, he simply overpowered others. Abeloth showed her self as smart and cunning as any Sith and beyond.
You got this all wrong. Abeloth has her share of talents but she lacks in discipline of combat. She wasted many bodies in fights.

Originally posted by Arhael
No less could be expected from an iconic characters. His powers and skills alone were tested countless times in situations, when he was at huge disadvantage and frankly he is still NOT DEAD.
This seems like fanboyism mindset. Their have been situations in which Luke would not have made through without external assistance. One such situation is being discussed in this thread already.

Originally posted by Arhael
Moreover, Vitiate is an over-hyped gary-stu in his own right.
I seriously doubt this. He is under-rated actually. This is why so many debates about this character are taking place.

Originally posted by Arhael
She couldn't. Luke was too powerful for any one to be able to mind dominate him.
Again! I want evidence. In the same manner as I have provided in this thread to support my arguments.

Originally posted by Arhael
On the other hand Abeloth did attempt to mind dominate Tahiri but she managed to free from her mental grasp by withdrawing from the Force.
Interesting. Again! Actual canonical material will be appreciated.

Originally posted by Arhael
Same way Vitiate couldn't mind dominate Jedi Knight second time as he become more powerful after first encounter and Vitiate stated himself that he is immensely powerful.
Can you prove your point? How do you even know that Vitiate attempted to crush the will of this Jedi Knight again?

Originally posted by Arhael
Jedi Knight's fight with Vitiate was long-term enough before he got stabbed.
Hint: weakened condition of Vitiate

Originally posted by Arhael
There is plenty of evidence showing Luke's incredible Force defenses, surely he can do better, than Jedi Knight. Also, he fought together with Krayt against Abeloth beyond shadows, without lightsaber, getting electrocuted straight into chest, engaging her in close combat and giving final blow. Quite long term battle.
As evident from Revan's novel; in a prolonged battle - Vitiate continues to up his game with each attempt.

Vitiate started attacking Revan with his Force powers and continued to increase the intensity and effectiveness of his attacks with passage of time until he brought Revan down. Vitiate packs considerable strength, stamina, and endurance as pointed out in the novel.

Vitiate's FLS brought down Revan in few seconds. Luke might last some minutes? And Vitiate would have more up his sleeve.

Therefore, prolonged conflict will not be in favor of Luke. His best bet would be to take out Vitiate as early as possible with his lightsaber. Keeping in mind Luke's incredible speed and skills with the lightsaber, he may get the opportunity to stab Vitiate depending upon how events play out.

Originally posted by Arhael
It is not clear weather he still got his original body as dark energy inevitably consumes bodies.
Vitiate has kept his original body.

Originally posted by Arhael
I actually admit that my assumption about him being weaker in other body is wrong. Abeloth was equally strong in different bodies, seems that power transfers with essence. The only difference was that body with high medichlorian count could last for her much longer.
Acceptable. Thanks.

Your assessment is illogical.

Why didn't Abeloth used her Force powers to subdue Luke? Why she exerted physically on Luke? Very idiotic decision-making.
She did. She empowered her body. It seems she wasn't able to use Force lightning at the time, she started using it after possessing Sith body.
Also, in final battle they did engage in physical combat as well. Moreover, her final attack was, also, physical and it crippled Luke far more than Force lightning and all other attacks.

Attacking physically was more convenient. Should I mention UnuThul's Force push to remind you of Luke's Force defenses? On the other hand, when she tried to take over Tahiri's body, she easily summoned her into her grasp. But in terms of Luke, post DE we never see him overwhelmed by TK or Force choke no matter how powerful enemy was.


Vitiate stayed like a dummy occasionally throwing lightning bolts, what is intelligent in that? He had no discipline, nor training, he relied on his power and only. Exile could have killed him, should she have thrown lightsaber into him instead. Abeloth on the other hand fought multiple Sith quite effectively. In turn Luke, also, fought against Abeloth and Sith simultaneously.

Abeloth indeed wasted many bodies. However, in final book she was holding back only on Tahiri to possess her body, Saba for instance killed her in all out fight.

As you said we need to consider circumstances and she was given that chance because of them on first place.


So did Abeloth. But you still don't get it. Abeloth herself was in multiple places at ones doing different things simultaneously. While Jedi on Coruscant fought Sith Abeloth, Tahiri and Boba Fett fought another one in different part of galaxy and killing one affected another. In final Saba fought one Abeloth on Coruscant, Ben and Vestara another next to Font of Power and Luke with Krayt - third one beyond shadows, all three events in parallel.

He was winning and loosing depending on circumstances. He did mistakes and learned from them like in DE. However, in FoTH he was handling multiple Sith even, when he was Force exhausted. He has way to many feats. It's not my fault that authors made Mary Sue out of him doing miracles no one else did.


"Tahiri had no doubt it was Abeloth. It was a seething orb of darkness larger than any she had felt before, as hot in the Force as a fusion core, and it was reaching into her even as she reached for it.
Tahiri tried to shut down quickly, withdrawing for the Force and making her presence small, but it was not easily done. The thing had already started to sink its tentacles into her, and she could feel them writhing about inside, struggling to keep hold, until she finally closed herself off entirely. "

Why not? There was plenty of time, while he fought illusions. If he could mind dominate Jedi Knight, why not just do it instead of unleashing all sorts of other powers?

Final boss. Most powerful being in the center of darkside nexus. There is no way he would be weakened. This is baseless assumption you desperately trying to hold on to describing it as "rumors". Jedi Knight was immensely powerful and example of Jedi truly dedicated to lightside unlike Revan. This inner strength and clarity in mind helped him overcome Vitiate's outclassing powers.

Luke deflects lightning with lightsaber on first place and he does it well. Even if some bolts get through, it's not a big deal. Abeloth electrocuted Luke far longer than Revan pressing her hand right into his chest. Yet, after that he was still combat effective and handled three Sith with one Force wave. In final battle without lightsaber she was electrocuting him as well, yet, he survived and it got to close combat.

Originally posted by Arhael
She did. She empowered her body. It seems she wasn't able to use Force lightning at the time, she started using it after possessing Sith body.
She did not used Force powers on Luke in this particular duel. Bad decision.

Originally posted by Arhael
Also, in final battle they did engage in physical combat as well. Moreover, her final attack was, also, physical and it crippled Luke far more than Force lightning and all other attacks.
How potent is her Force Lightning?

Originally posted by Arhael
Attacking physically was more convenient.
No, it wasn't. It was a reckless assault.

Originally posted by Arhael
Should I mention UnuThul's Force push to remind you of Luke's Force defenses? On the other hand, when she tried to take over Tahiri's body, she easily summoned her into her grasp. But in terms of Luke, post DE we never see him overwhelmed by TK or Force choke no matter how powerful enemy was.
Luke certainly can put up formidable defence against TK based attacks. However, Abeloth was more powerful then him, so what was the issue?

Originally posted by Arhael
Vitiate stayed like a dummy occasionally throwing lightning bolts, what is intelligent in that? He had no discipline, nor training, he relied on his power and only.
This is a very short-sighted assessment of the duel.

Vitiate prevented Revan from reaching to him. This was the decision that Vitiate made and upheld during the duel.

This is how the events unfolded:

01. Revan charged
02. Vitiate Force pushed Revan and stopped his advance
03. Revan stood up and charged again
04. Vitiate attempted to crush Revan's will
05. Revan responded with a blast of power which send Vitiate packing in backwards direction
06. Revan charged again
07. Vitiate unleashed Force Lightning on Revan and stopped his advance
08. Revan defended himself and charged again
09. Vitiate unleashed more powerful Force Lightning on Revan and stopped his advance
10. Revan deflected the Force Lightning back at Vitiate
11. Vitiate got taste of his own medicine and was further pushed backward
12. Revan charged again
13. Vitiate unleashed FLS
14. Revan attempted to defend himself but got badly wounded
15. T3 stepped in to save Revan and engulfed Vitiate with flames
16. Vitiate defended himself and destroyed T3 with a blast of power in response
17. Revan was healing his wounds with the Force but could not respond
18. Vitiate picked up Revan's lightsaber to strike him with it
19. Meetra saved Revan

Now explain to me that how Vitiate lacks in combat discipline. Also on what basis have you assumed that Vitiate is not trained in the ways of the Force?

Originally posted by Arhael
Exile could have killed him, should she have thrown lightsaber into him instead.
Yes, I know this. Vitiate's attention was on Revan and Meetra took advantage.

Originally posted by Arhael
Abeloth on the other hand fought multiple Sith quite effectively. In turn Luke, also, fought against Abeloth and Sith simultaneously.
Vitiate have comparable feats. The manner in which he dealt with the Jedi Strike Team is flawless and epic.

Originally posted by Arhael
Abeloth indeed wasted many bodies. However, in final book she was holding back only on Tahiri to possess her body, Saba for instance killed her in all out fight.
And Vitiate never wasted bodies like her.

Originally posted by Arhael
As you said we need to consider circumstances and she was given that chance because of them on first place.
She fights recklessely and also makes foolish decisions. Double plus for her.

Originally posted by Arhael
So did Abeloth. But you still don't get it. Abeloth herself was in multiple places at ones doing different things simultaneously. While Jedi on Coruscant fought Sith Abeloth, Tahiri and Boba Fett fought another one in different part of galaxy and killing one affected another. In final Saba fought one Abeloth on Coruscant, Ben and Vestara another next to Font of Power and Luke with Krayt - third one beyond shadows, all three events in parallel.
This example also reveals that Abeloth committed another blunder (bad decision making). She wasted so many bodies that it ultimately became her undoing.

I have pointed out to you that Abeloth lacks in combat discipline. She possessed lot of power but could not utilize it effectively due to bad decisions she made. This is why her opponents succeeded against her.

Originally posted by Arhael
He was winning and loosing depending on circumstances.
This is what dramatic conflict is all about.

Originally posted by Arhael
He did mistakes and learned from them like in DE. However, in FoTH he was handling multiple Sith even, when he was Force exhausted. He has way to many feats. It's not my fault that authors made Mary Sue out of him doing miracles no one else did.
Vitiate managed to collapse a gigantic building after getting struck down. He performed this feat in a bad condition. Now imagine what he could do in good condition.

Originally posted by Arhael
"Tahiri had no doubt it was Abeloth. It was a seething orb of darkness larger than any she had felt before, as hot in the Force as a fusion core, and it was reaching into her even as she reached for it.
Tahiri tried to shut down quickly, withdrawing for the Force and making her presence small, but it was not easily done. The thing had already started to sink its tentacles into her, and she could feel them writhing about inside, struggling to keep hold, until she finally closed herself off entirely. "
Thanks. This is Tahiri's part. Now where is the Luke's part?

Originally posted by Arhael
Why not? There was plenty of time, while he fought illusions. If he could mind dominate Jedi Knight, why not just do it instead of unleashing all sorts of other powers?
Story Arc?

Originally posted by Arhael
Final boss. Most powerful being in the center of darkside nexus. There is no way he would be weakened. This is baseless assumption you desperately trying to hold on to describing it as "rumors". Jedi Knight was immensely powerful and example of Jedi truly dedicated to lightside unlike Revan. This inner strength and clarity in mind helped him overcome Vitiate's outclassing powers.
The claim is baseless? On what merit can you challenge this claim?

SWTOR players have made this revelation. Here is one example; http://revanantzforcesguild.com/aboutswtor/game-info/character-bios/268-the-sith-emperor-defeated.html?article_id=268%3Athe-sith-emperor-defeated\

You are in no position to challenge this claim unless you have played SWTOR and completed all storylines.

Originally posted by Arhael
Luke deflects lightning with lightsaber on first place and he does it well. Even if some bolts get through, it's not a big deal. Abeloth electrocuted Luke far longer than Revan pressing her hand right into his chest. Yet, after that he was still combat effective and handled three Sith with one Force wave. In final battle without lightsaber she was electrocuting him as well, yet, he survived and it got to close combat.
Lightsaber is feasible to a certain extent. FLS is too big of blast of energy to contain with a lightsaber.

And how potent is Force Lightning of Abeloth?

Vitiate has demonstrated most potent Force Lightning to date. He can melt metal with it. He knocked out an extremely proficient Tutaminis user with it in few seconds.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
She did not used Force powers on Luke in this particular duel. Bad decision.
She did use her Force powers.
"He pushed back with the Force, reinforcing his larynx and trying to throw her off. It was no good. Abeloth had a dozen times the Force strength Luke had, and he could do no more than keep her from crushing his throat." The straggle was Force based as much as physical. Whatever was her intention, your assumption of her not using her full capabilities to subdue Luke are illogical.

As potent as her superior power. Force lightning strength directly depends on power, is it not??? It was potent enough to successfully electrocute Coran Horn, who's specific strength and unique talent is absorbing Force and energy.

You are entitled to your own opinion, what exactly would be more effective in that case?


Vitiate was way more powerful, than Jedi Knight, even if we consider "fan assumption of him been weakened", so what was the issue?

This is not the decision, this is the only way to survive. There is nothing intelligent in that whatsoever. Even complete idiot will know that it is better to keep away from a guy with knife. On the other hand he made very smug and foolish decision by picking up lightsaber and approaching Revan instead of finishing him straight away, which could have cost him life.

There is no discipline in staying in one place relying utterly on his superior power. He never try to outsmart anyone in direct confrontation as due to his superior power is was not needed. Don't twist my statements, I never said he was not trained in the ways of the Force.

Yes, it is. They were not powerful enough to counter him and Jedi Knight had still much to learn. And I am not denying that he had comparable feats. Also, apparently, there is a limit to maximum power that can be achieved. For that reason Abeloth started multiplying as pure Darkside power in one body couldn't get purer.


Of course he didn't, he was hiding on Dromund Kaas in the middle of Darkside nexus the whole time and Jedi Knight happened to be the only truly powerful foe he faced apart from Revan.
While I agree that she got killed by Tahiri and Boba Fett because she wanted her body and she had twisted idea of making Son and Daughter out of Ben and Vestara. Fights with Saba and Luke and Krayt were all out with no mercy.
She does fight very effectively, which is evidenced on many occasions. In very first fight she was attacked by 4 Sith and 2 Jedi, yet, she fought them simultaneously and was teleporting around, on top of that control web was brought down on her. On her runaway she killed 3 random Sith like an inconvenient obstacle. After Luke ripped Callista out of her, over 20 Sith attacked Luke, Ben and Vestara, and another strike team attacked Abeloth and she was tearing them apart as well. It is clear that unless there is someone truly powerful against her like Luke or Saba, they go down more or less instantly.

So why trying to mitigate his feats and capabilities, if it plays both ways around?

Why imagining, if he showed what he could do in good condition during the actual fight?

There is no example as she couldn't. But she definitely would as it is the easiest option. There is a reason why she kept trying to trick him and using his former girlfriend's essences. It is Luke with potential of chosen one in his peak, remember? His will is unbreakable as he's already had all possible trials, she needed to expose his emotions and doubts to break his will.

Hmm. You were talking so much about his intelligence and decision making earlier on, perhaps, I will now use your weapon against you. It was reckless to use Force bolts instead of Force Lightning Storm! It was reckless not to try to mind dominate him considering all the time spent for conversation and battling illusions! It was reckless to use ones again Force Lightning instead of Force Lightning Storm and on top of that walk towards him instead of keeping distance! He is so unintelligent and reckless in combat!

On the merit that it is not canon. It is not revelation, it is naked statement of a random fan from a random website. I can find for you website with revelation that Ja Ja Binks was uber powerful and destroyed more droids, than majority of Jedi.


That's your opinion. Which was proven wrong by Jedi Knight, Luke on several occasions, Windu and many other characters I am lazy to name.

That's, also, your opinion, which you rightfully entitled to. What metal did he melt with it? It was Revan's skin melting and sticking to mask.
"His skin began to boil and blister, the flash of his face melting and sticking to the superheated metal of his mask".

luke