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Peak conditions for both. To the death of course. Who takes it?

Peak conditions?

Then Oro knows about the eye stuff...but still fails because he is not a sage like Kabuto. The reason Kabuto did so well against the Uchiha brothers was his sage mode and uber perception while in that state. He could keep his eyes closed and fight among the best of them.

I think Oro is smarter and more perceptive than Kabuto because Kabuto just basically stole all of Oro's work. What Kabuto is now is what Oro had planned to become. However, I think Oro would have come out better.


So, if we get Oro in this same state as Kabuto, Oro would be much better at it. This is my opinion.

I like Kabuto...but I think Oro is better at being Oro than Kabuto.

Itachi.

Without difficulty.

Orochimaru still has nothing on the WTF Blade. Besides wasn't he kind of in peak condition when he took over Sasuke and used Yamata no Jutsu; I'm still mad that I don't know what it was suppose to do.

So Itachi wins.

BTW wonder if Orochimaru could use Snake Sage mode in Sasuke's body.

Peak, I think Orochimaru could make Itachi work for it, and Itachi'd definitely have to pull out his best stuff, but as mentioned he doesn't have an answer for Itachi's best moves.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka

BTW wonder if Orochimaru could use Snake Sage mode in Sasuke's body.

I assume he could; I strongly suspect that's why he wanted a cursed seal compatible body in the first place. It was said to be nature chakra related to Jugo's ability, and he didn't really have to risk giving it to Sasuke if he just wanted the sharingan. So my working hypothesis is a body capable of mastering his Heaven/Earth cursed seals is sage capable.

Kabuto is far move combat focused than Oro ever was. And I highly doubt Oro's smarts over Kabuto covers the gap created by Sage mode.


Wasn't Oro was terrified of facing Itachi?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Peak conditions?

Then Oro knows about the eye stuff...but still fails because he is not a sage like Kabuto. The reason Kabuto did so well against the Uchiha brothers was his sage mode and uber perception while in that state. He could keep his eyes closed and fight among the best of them.

I think Oro is smarter and more perceptive than Kabuto because Kabuto just basically stole all of Oro's work. What Kabuto is now is what Oro had planned to become. However, I think Oro would have come out better.


So, if we get Oro in this same state as Kabuto, Oro would be much better at it. This is my opinion.

I like Kabuto...but I think Oro is better at being Oro than Kabuto.

You can't replace Oro with Kabumaru to me. He was the original badass. Even if Kabu is pretty cool

But as far as the fight, another reason Kabuto did as good as he did was because the Uchiha brothers restrained themselves to non lethal force. Itachi had to keep Sasuke once I believe.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Orochimaru still has nothing on the WTF Blade. Besides wasn't he kind of in peak condition when he took over Sasuke and used Yamata no Jutsu; I'm still mad that I don't know what it was suppose to do.

So Itachi wins.

BTW wonder if Orochimaru could use Snake Sage mode in Sasuke's body.

Itachi's faced the Yamato no Jutsu before, or at least, he knows what it can really do.

Yes he could. The only reason he couldn't use Sage Mode was because he didn't have the right body to handle it. Plus what Q99 said about CS and Snake Sage Mode being related.

So imagine Sasuke with Snake Sage Mode. vin

Itachi wins. Oro could not handle amaterasu or susano. I think if they had wrote Oro using more varied ninjutsu like he is supposed to know, the fight might be different. the only way I see him winning is if he can pull off edo tensei before getting killed. Itachi would have a hard time repeating what Hiruzen did. Also, isn't Itachi faster than Oro? I think Itachi has the edge in almost every category.

Itachi could do what Hiruzen did with ease with his freaking sword. One, two, **** you Orochimaru.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Kabuto is far move combat focused than Oro ever was. And I highly doubt Oro's smarts over Kabuto covers the gap created by Sage mode.


Wasn't Oro was terrified of facing Itachi?

He did know he'd lose.


I will mention one advantage Orochimaru had and Kabuto did not- the sword. The sword that could extend a mile long pushing back a super-heavy chakra the entire time.

It's actually a pretty nice bit of kit.


Not enough to make up for everything else, but still.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Itachi could do what Hiruzen did with ease with his freaking sword. One, two, **** you Orochimaru.

Yeah, he is just going to completely own two hokages easily. I don't think so. Not saying he can't pull it off, but I think it is far from the cakewalk you are making it out to be. But yeah, Oro still loses. I think old Jiraiya was definitely best of the bunch.

If the Kage fought like they did against Hiruzen, Itachi would be able to kill them easily.

Such is the reason power creep sucks. Though really it was only that one fight that got hurt really bad.

I don't quite follow. They both used some high level jutsus that Hiruzen had to think quick to counter. Had Hiruzen had no prior knowledge of these attacks, he probably would have been killed there. Plus, he succeeded in stopping the revival of minato, would Itachi be so lucky. Even if he does stop two kages who really don't desire to fight, could he stop those three? Of course this assumes that Itachi doesn't place Oro under a genjutsu before he can pull it off.

My bad, I realized after re-reading that Minato can't be resurrected. I forgot about that.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Itachi.

Without difficulty.

This.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Peak conditions for both. To the death of course. Who takes it?

Peak conditions are very hard to determine since neither one of them have been peak condition since the manga began. Itachi was sick and dying and Oro's vessel was rejecting him. Without knowing their peak forms, it's really hard to tell. i would like to have seen them. However, of what we have seen of them, Itachi wins.

Originally posted by socool8520
I don't quite follow. They both used some high level jutsus that Hiruzen had to think quick to counter. Had Hiruzen had no prior knowledge of these attacks, he probably would have been killed there. Plus, he succeeded in stopping the revival of minato, would Itachi be so lucky. Even if he does stop two kages who really don't desire to fight, could he stop those three? Of course this assumes that Itachi doesn't place Oro under a genjutsu before he can pull it off.

The high level jutsu used on Sarutobi is actually far below the things used on Itachi later on. Only the one genjutsu Hashirama used would be a really defining factor but I think Itachi could deal with that.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
The high level jutsu used on Sarutobi is actually far below the things used on Itachi later on. Only the one genjutsu Hashirama used would be a really defining factor but I think Itachi could deal with that.

How does he deal with a giant forest coming at him? Or a tidal wave. Or both at the same time. amaterasu doesn't burn things that quickly and his sword and susan'o can't block everything. Could he eke out the win, sure, but if Oro pulls the two kages out on him, it's gonna be hard fought.

Originally posted by socool8520
How does he deal with a giant forest coming at him? Or a tidal wave. Or both at the same time. amaterasu doesn't burn things that quickly and his sword and susan'o can't block everything. Could he eke out the win, sure, but if Oro pulls the two kages out on him, it's gonna be hard fought.

Dude has literally almost be placed inside a miniature moon and has taken a huge lightning dragon(faster than anything the kage have attacked with before) without difficulty. He also had more than a broken sword. He has the mirror of absolute brokneness that would at the very least be able to reflect the tidal wave.

Though I believe if Orochimaru wasn't as confident as he was during the Hiruzen fight that Hashirama could push Itachi's shit in. He is just that good.

Originally posted by socool8520
How does he deal with a giant forest coming at him? Or a tidal wave. Or both at the same time. amaterasu doesn't burn things that quickly and his sword and susan'o can't block everything. Could he eke out the win, sure, but if Oro pulls the two kages out on him, it's gonna be hard fought.

Burn down the forest, cut it down, or just block it with Susano'o, like Hiruzen did with his Enma-cage.
Itachi is at the very least capable of replicating ET Tobirama's best and only offensive feat

ET Tobirama and ET Hashirama have nothing on Itachi.

He can cut down an entire forest quicker than Hashirama can push it at him? Really? Also, his susan'o can handle that force? Madara's was broken punctured by a punch from A. I hardly see Itachi's susan'o being better than Madaras. I mean it took several naruto clones with big ball rasengans to neutralize the tech. There is no way a susan'o trumps that. come on now.

Itachi's Susano'o stood up to this:

tyikK3BXxtc

Itachi's Susano'o>Madara's.

I think Hashirama's forest technique>than lightning bolt. I thought we weren't allowed to use anime as a reference. I'm not against it, I just thought that was da rules.

It's not.

And since that isn't filler, it's fine for me to use it. The same thing happened in the manga.

On a side note, **** was Kirin awesome. I want to see it again so badly.

Originally posted by socool8520
He can cut down an entire forest quicker than Hashirama can push it at him? Really?

Yes he can, given Susano'o's speed.

Originally posted by socool8520
Also, his susan'o can handle that force?

Yes, his Susano'o can easily handle that force. If some monkey staff cage can stand up to it, Itachi's Susano'o certainly can.

Originally posted by socool8520
Madara's was broken punctured by a punch from A. I hardly see Itachi's susan'o being better than Madaras.

Madara's was broken by an amped punch from A. Previously, A couldn't so much as scratch Madara's base Susano'o. Madara's Susano'o has shown nothing that puts it above Itachi's. Sasuke's, yes, but not Itachi's. Itachi's Susano'o has withstood a small mountain busting attack.

Originally posted by socool8520
I mean it took several naruto clones with big ball rasengans to neutralize the tech. There is no way a susan'o trumps that. come on now.

ET Hashirama's usage of Wood release was pathetically inferior to Madara's usage of Wood release. It's why nearly everyone says that the Hiruzen-Oro fight was hurt immensely by the power creep.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It's not.

And since that isn't filler, it's fine for me to use it. The same thing happened in the manga.

On a side note, **** was Kirin awesome. I want to see it again so badly.

Wait. You mean it's OK or you can't do it? Cuz I think Nemebro told me anime was off limits in discussions.

I agree Kirin is a great prep ability. Ant the fact it can't be used often unless storms are already occurring, makes me like it more. However if sasuke starts spamming it in the future, I will be upset.

If it happened in the manga and the anime doesn't add anything, then it is fine.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yes he can, given Susano'o's speed.



Yes, his Susano'o can easily handle that force. If some monkey staff cage can stand up to it, Itachi's Susano'o certainly can.



Madara's was broken by an amped punch from A. Previously, A couldn't so much as scratch Madara's base Susano'o. Madara's Susano'o has shown nothing that puts it above Itachi's. Sasuke's, yes, but not Itachi's. Itachi's Susano'o has withstood a small mountain busting attack.



ET Hashirama's usage of Wood release was pathetically inferior to Madara's usage of Wood release. It's why nearly everyone says that the Hiruzen-Oro fight was hurt immensely by the power creep.

We must also consider the area they were fighting in as well. Obviously, he couldn't create a more powerful wood release on a rooftop enclosed in a barrier. Madara was literally in a desert with no real limitation. Same for the second Hokage. I truly believe that they would have much more impressive attacks in a different setting.

Also, Hashirama could root him up from under the ground and push him out of susan'o. I guess it would be a matter of can the two hokage dodge the sword long enough for that susan'o to wear off from Itachi's fatigue.

Originally posted by socool8520
We must also consider the area they were fighting in as well. Obviously, he couldn't create a more powerful wood release on a rooftop enclosed in a barrier. Madara was literally in a desert with no real limitation. Same for the second Hokage. I truly believe that they would have much more impressive attacks in a different setting.

Who knows. We can only go off what we saw. Based on what we saw in that fight, ET Hashirama and ET Tobirama were not very impressive, not with the standards Naruto currently has, and wouldn't have been very impressive in any other setting.
We know Hashirama was obviously far more powerful than he was depicted in that fight, so the logical choice is to conclude that Orochimaru was f***ing around and wanted Hiruzen to suffer psychologically.

I can agree with that. But we do know that at the time, Hashirama>Madara, and Madara>Itachi, although now it seems up for grabs. lol So in essence, hashiramu should stomp Itachi. I'm not saying that Itachi couldn't seal the two hokages, in fact, with them holding back somewhat due to fight against their will, I'm positive that Itachi coud. My only argument, if you go back that far, is that it would not be with little effort or great ease as someone stated.

I think itachi could probably kill orochimaru without using amaterasu or susano.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Itachi's Susano'o>Madara's.

I'm glad to see this changed for the better.