(FotJ) Luke Versus DE Sidious Versus Darth Nihilus
Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.
Battlemaster
Had a thought.
With the apparent revelation that destroying a full-powered Nihilus was possible, not through trying to out-power or out-absorb the Giga-drain (because the Giga-drain would win) but by curtailing it and if Palpatine couldn't or didn't have the destructive force neseccary to throw at Nihilus - he would simply bring Nihilus, to that destructive force, destroying the Lord of Hunger.
I thought of Luke, and what he could do to Nihilus.
Slash him with a lightsaber? A weakened Nihilus likely took many lightsaber blows while fighting Surik and her companions on the Ravager and there's no telling how many strikes he could tank while using his massive Force energies to defend himself.
Nihilus's Giga-drain is pretty much insta-kill, and the stun-effect is definitely instantanious so a hit would mean death, anyway - so I was wondering..
Is there anything Luke can do?
Will Electric Judgement even harm Nihilus? A black-hole of Force energy, bonded to armor - would Nihilus eat that up?
Luke could always Foldspace his lightsaber (as it is a extension of his body) into Nihilus's "head" - but would that even do anything?
Nihilus's TK is at least on par with Luke's - if not greater.
So what can Luke do?
Palpatine can Wormhole Nihilus into a Star - but if Nihilus is killing Luke in the middle of this, can Palpy win?
What happens?
This battle takes place on a cold tundra-field on the world of Hoth.
All three opponants stand 20 feet apart, in a circle - kind of like the ending of The Good, The bad and The Ugly.
Battlemaster
In retrospect, this is actually a good match-up...
Stealth Moose
Well, if Sids drops a wormhole twenty feet away from himself, he's toast.
Also, Nihilus soaks the cold, eats the other two.
Battlemaster
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Well, if Sids drops a wormhole twenty feet away from himself, he's toast.
Isn't Wormhole different from the Storm function, though?
Sidious couldn't control a Storm without killing himself - but when Sidious created a Wormhole to grab Luke and R2 - both Jedi and Droid were perfectly fine in the encounter.
It stands to reason that Palpatine can create Wormholes at close proximity without damage to himself.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Also, Nihilus soaks the cold, eats the other two.
Woaw, hardcore. I like your style.
dgeoro_scattere
Force Storms can distinguish between targets; Luke and R2D2 were, along with a veritable mountain of debris, sucked into the vortex but only Luke and the droid were funneled into the Lictor-class dungeon ship. It can destroy targets and safely transport others.
Now whether Sidious could maintain this control under duress is an entirely different story.
Nephthys
Yeah, I doubt he could maintain the Wormhole while travelling through it himself.
Battlemaster
Originally posted by dgeoro_scattere
Force Storms can distinguish between targets; Luke and R2D2 were, along with a veritable mountain of debris, sucked into the vortex but only Luke and the droid were funneled into the Lictor-class dungeon ship. It can destroy targets and safely transport others.
Now whether Sidious could maintain this control under duress is an entirely different story.
So Palpatine couldn't defeat Nihilus, then?
Battlemaster
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, I doubt he could maintain the Wormhole while travelling through it himself.
What about attacking Nihilus with it (from the front)?
GenomeFrozener
For me, it's more of Luke and Sidious clashing with each other in disagreement than focusing on Nihilus, I can see them be distracted easily.
Nephthys
Originally posted by Battlemaster
What about attacking Nihilus with it (from the front)?
Again, Sidious himself is only a few meters from Nihilus. I doubt Sidious is precise enough to only pull Nihilus in.
Battlemaster
Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
For me, it's more of Luke and Sidious clashing with each other in disagreement than focusing on Nihilus, I can see them be distracted easily.
That would mean Nihilus would win, though..
Battlemaster
Originally posted by Nephthys
Again, Sidious himself is only a few meters from Nihilus. I doubt Sidious is precise enough to only pull Nihilus in.
Hmm...
dgeoro_scattere
Possibly. Luke was unconscious by the time he materialized elsewhere.
I see no reason to believe Nihilus would survive a Force Storm and Palpatine is unquestionably the more skilled and masterly combatant. Whether or not he could loose a Force Storm in time {which he could, I suppose, if he concealed himself in the Force and then conjured one with "mere thought and inclination"}. But the odds are that he'd die from the vortex.
GenomeFrozener
Oh geez, if they're THAT close, what's stopping Nihilus from eating Luke or Sidious from the get go? KOTOR II shown us when he sees prey, he's not gonna stop and talk to them.
dgeoro_scattere
...That's actually what he did with the Exile.
Battlemaster
Originally posted by dgeoro_scattere
I see no reason to believe Nihilus would survive a Force Storm and Palpatine is unquestionably the more skilled and masterly combatant. Whether or not he could loose a Force Storm in time {which he could, I suppose, if he concealed himself in the Force and then conjured one with "mere thought and inclination"}. But the odds are that he'd die from the vortex.
Nihilus might just as likely eat the Force Storm...
And if he didn't (which he probably would) then all 3 of them would die in the vortex..
Making this a non-win.
So either they all die - or Nihilus wins.
Battlemaster
Originally posted by dgeoro_scattere
...That's actually what he did with the Exile.
True - this is to the death, though.
dgeoro_scattere
I realize, I was just pointing out the humorous contradiction between what he said and what Nihilus did in the game.
Battlemaster
I don't think a Force Storm is going to do jack to Nihilus.
But a Force Wormhole is going to send him somewhere where he can die..
Battlemaster
Originally posted by dgeoro_scattere
I realize, I was just pointing out the humorous contradiction between what he said and what Nihilus did in the game.
Yeah, I know.
It was an astute point.
But this fight is to the death - and Nihilus is interested in Luke and Sid's - not Hoth.
Stealth Moose
Keeping it real here that the only one to not be annoyed or distracted by cold ripping winds would probably be Nihilus, who has no real physical body beneath his armor.
Also, he froze the Exile so he could nomz. Not sure why that's problematic here. We've never seen anyone post-TOR era freeze anyone, last I checked. It's doubtful if they can even resist it.
Battlemaster
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Keeping it real here that the only one to not be annoyed or distracted by cold ripping winds would probably be Nihilus, who has no real physical body beneath his armor.
Also, he froze the Exile so he could nomz. Not sure why that's problematic here. We've never seen anyone post-TOR era freeze anyone, last I checked. It's doubtful if they can even resist it.
Damn.. good point..
Shit, I knew there was a reason you were among the top-tier debators here.
No wonder your debates with Gideon are like watching Mace Windu and Darth Sidious go toe-to-toe.
GenomeFrozener
Originally posted by dgeoro_scattere
I realize, I was just pointing out the humorous contradiction between what he said and what Nihilus did in the game.
I wouldn't doubt that Nihilus would do the same thing to any force sensitive he sees. He's hungry, and he wants his food the best way possible.
Battlemaster
Wow...maybe I was wrong about the Wormhole.
I guess Nihilus really is more powerful than these two..
dgeoro_scattere
It's doubtful he can even pull that off against Sidious or Luke.
Stealth Moose
Originally posted by dgeoro_scattere
It's doubtful he can even pull that off against Sidious or Luke.
On the basis of what exactly?
dgeoro_scattere
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
On the basis of what exactly?
That's the question I pose to you and since you made your claim first...
Stealth Moose
There's the simple fact that Force Freeze is virtually unheard of in latter eras. Neither practiced nor defend against obviously.
Assuming a defense of it without a precedent is a very weak position to argue from. Potentially, they may defend against it because of sheer will and/or overall Force knowledge. Or, it may have been lost to time before their era and they're caught unprepared.
It's extremely iffy.
ares834
In RoT Bane breaks out of a force stasis simply through sheer force.
"Farfalla released the power he'd been gathering in a single concentrated burst. Bane was suddenly encased in a shimmering stasis field of light-side energy, freezing him where he stood. But his command of the dark side was too powerful for it to hold him for more than a split second. The shimmering field exploded into fragments as the Dark Lord broke free, though the momentary delay had allowed the Echani to place herself between the Ithorian and the Sith."
axel_jovan
Sidious mind dominates Nihilus and uses him as a weapon against Luke.
Sensing the danger, Luke uses his mind powers to subdue Nihilus and turns him against Sidious.
The battle continues untill both of them die due to old age.
As they perish, N. wins. /thread
Pwned
Plus it the Bane series, defending against a Force attack seemed to have pretty much just been a wall of your own will and Force energy to stop it. Seemed that way to me. Meaning if you outclass your opponent to a degree bordering or in the absurd, you won't be hurt badly, if at all. I think Luke outclasses Nihilus to about that degree based on feats and not speculation.
Arhael
While, it is true for non-Force users, who cannot put any defenses whatsoever, experienced Jedi/Sith can resist it.
As of Luke. He can't use electric judgement nor will he have oneness with the Force to have all that overwhelming lightside energy to convert into lightning. And assuming him experience this state during this confrontation would be unfairly biased. Plus, it is darkside power.
Luke doesn't use fold space during combat and unlikely can. The only example in combat is Abeloth during her first fight with Sith and Jedi. But she was teleporting herself, never did objects.
As for Palpatine. Both Force storm and wormhole are channeling powers involving a lot of concentration, non of it would be used in combat as it would lead to silly death.
As of Nihilus. During combat with Surik he couldn't even drain his former apprentice and a non-Force user mandalorian. Though Force drain does work during combat as I know examples confirming it in books.
Regarding Luke and Palpatine's resistance. In Anakin's case he had to find teachings of Kel-Droma because no one in Order ever encountered it nor there was a practitioner of it to learn by practice. But Luke encountered drain on more than one occasion and Palpatine did it himself.
Although, it is implied that no one could withstand Nihilus' drain, he simply was more powerful, than Jedi of that time, even with knowledge of resistance they would be overpowered. However. both Luke and Palpatine are immensely powerful in their own right.
Luke tactic: use Force only for defensive purposes and use only lighsaber for offensive.
Palpatine: offensive powers mostly against Luke. Could try Force lightning agaisnt Nihilus. There is no evidence of him absorbing Force lightning. And as we know Force lightning is not a pure Force, it is energy produced by Force, which is essentially electricity heating objects to extreme temperatures.
Nihilus: he noms.
Lomi Plo froze Luke completely in place by exposing his fear, he literally froze in place and couldn't move for a while. Yet, after he got read of his doubts, he didn't give a fohh about all her arcane abilities.
In Crosscurrent Anzat froze Jaden Corr in order to consume his brain.
Jacen froze Aurra Sing in one place in order to save his daughter.
Force Freeze is just another way of calling mind domination, more powerful user mentally forces weaker one to freeze. In game this ability is given to every Force-sensitive playable character and to majority powerful enemies. There is a reason in game victim is shown having dizziness as he experiences mess in his head. How you concluded that it is some entirely unique ability I have no clue.
Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.
Copyright 1999-2024 KillerMovies.