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Versus
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Time and space have whisked two teams of Sith warriors to a neutral Dark side location in the universe.

Luke Skywalker has fully accepted and embraced his tutalge as a Sith Lord and he and Darth Sidious, in a reborn clone body, stand ready to defend their claim to the mantle of the Rule of Two.


Darth Nihilus has seen use in accepting an alliance with Darth Traya - and both see the other Sith duo as potentially-agitating thorns in their plan for the destruction of the galaxy.


Nihilus and Traya seek to destroy all life in the universe.

Palpatine and Luke want to rule over it.

Both team members stand 10 feet apart - facing the opposing couple, 20 Feet away.

Who will win, in this ultimate battle of Sith teacher/pupil couplings?


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Settingxun, Jungle Clearing.


Which Sith Master/Student Team, are the superior force?

"...But sometimes, the only way to stop evil is not with good. You must confront it with another kind of evil..."

Palpatine mind-dominates N. and uses him as a weapon against Traya.

As soon as N. finishes her off, Palpatine teleports him to the nearest star, thereby assuring Nihilus's demise.

Meanwhile Luke whines in the corner, as he wasn't allowed to take part in the actual combat.

Dood luck to Sids seeing as Nilihus both doesn't have a brain, thinks on a different wavelength to palaptine anddoesn;t evn speak the same language.

What does speaking the same language have to do with anything?

How do I read your mind if I can;t even understand you bro?

With the Force.


Seriously, language isn't a barrier, not mentally.
Besides, Nihilus knows Basic. And the connections to the languages are therefore in his head. Sidious could read those and understand Nihilus' speech.

It would still be like Emma Frost trying to mind control The Living Tribunal. Plus Nihilis has no physical brain for Palpatine to work with. How does Palpatine even find his thoughts? he ha snever come across someone whos thoughts are located in their armour.

It more likely Niihlus contorl palpatine, but he doesn;t need to.

I like how that drawing of Nihilus has a charcoal-coloured body behind the mask.

worst nihilus draEING EVER.

.....


Know what? I am not even going to argue. Just another stupid troll account.


Anyways, Sidious and Luke win.

Erm.. you is the one who is clearly trolling. I made valid points and you insult me. Facto of the matter is that Nihilus is basically a God of a compeltely different kind of existence to the human Sidious, and he's also far more powerful. You haven't made a veyr good argument why palpatine will just easily control him.

Nihilus should be able to solo this, and Kreia would be able to take Luke out of the fight probably anyway, who by Dark Empire is still not too powerful.

The KotOR Campaign Guide referred to Nihilus's plot against Traya as a "calculated " and his machinations regarding Vaklu, Tobin, the remnants of the Jedi order, et al. all indicate the presence of a fully functioning and rather capable intellect, if not literal brain tissue.

Just another example of where Nihilus has been exaggerated.

Wasn'*** Sion';s plan to betray Atris and not Nihilus?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I like how that drawing of Nihilus has a charcoal-coloured body behind the mask.


Almost like a ghostly-apparition.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Erm.. you is the one who is clearly trolling. I made valid points and you insult me. Facto of the matter is that Nihilus is basically a God of a compeltely different kind of existence to the human Sidious, and he's also far more powerful. You haven't made a veyr good argument why palpatine will just easily control him.

Nihilus should be able to solo this, and Kreia would be able to take Luke out of the fight probably anyway, who by Dark Empire is still not too powerful. Alright then, I will explain it.

Nihilus was human. Now he is a dark force apparition bound to the physical armor.

Language when it comes to the Force is not a limitation. Neither is a physical brain. In this case, Palpatine would subdue Nihilus' will, using subtle machinations and Dun Moch. DE Sidious has been stated to be the most powerful Sith Lord to exist. (somebody else will have to get the source, I can't remember EXACTLY where it came from, and I am procrastinating from school work for this) While yes, its touted about, DE Sidious is easily more powerful. Giga-drain or no, Nihilus is PROBABLYthe weakest one here in terms of mastery and such. Luke comes next, but he makes up for it by being the strongest with the Force, because he is Luke (and his POWER in the Force never changed Just his mastery.) Traya is behind Sidious. However, we do not know much about her, and therefore Nihilus may well be ahead of her. However, he is an instinctual thing, driven by hunger to consume as much Force essence as he can. He is currently faced by (arguably) the 2 most powerful mortals to ever live (I do not count Abeloth as mortal, but something else) and frankly, eventually he will want to eat. I do not see that going well.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
Palpatine mind-dominates N. and uses him as a weapon against Traya.




In order to dominate Nihilus - you would have to destroy his alliegance to his one true Master - Hunger.

Nihilus's Hunger to just eat Palpatine and Luke in the moment would be too great and his Hunger would have him ignore Palpatine's commands - and begin to feast.





Originally posted by axel_jovan

Palpatine teleports him to the nearest star, thereby assuring Nihilus's demise.



- I thought that too, a while back. However, our resident Sidious expert debunked that, and he and other experts explained how Palpatine can't control his Wormholes/Storms at close range.

Plus on the other hand, there's always a chance Nihilus could eat the wormhole, too.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
In order to dominate Nihilus - you would have to destroy his alliegance to his one true Master - Hunger.

Nihilus's Hunger to just eat Palpatine and Luke in the moment would be too great and his Hunger would have him ignore Palpatine's commands - and begin to feast. I don't know about that. I mean, this is the guy who spoke to the Jedi High Council, Yoda, Mace Windu, and all of them, and hundreds of other Jedi, and yet not a single one sensed the darkness in his Force presence. I could see him dominating Nihilus, overcoming even the hunger that consumes him.


Plus, Nihilus would get fat. That would be quite humorous.....

If he had the power to enthrall Nihilus, Palpatine wouldn't need to overcome Nihilus's hunger, just redirect it.

Originally posted by Pwned
I don't know about that. I mean, this is the guy who spoke to the Jedi High Council, Yoda, Mace Windu, and all of them, and hundreds of other Jedi, and yet not a single one sensed the darkness in his Force presence. I could see him dominating Nihilus, overcoming even the hunger that consumes him.


Plus, Nihilus would get fat. That would be quite humorous.....



Palpatine could break Nihilus's ravenous Hunger, that is so deep and set that it causes him to need to feed on entire Planet-fulls of people and makes up his very being?

So Nihilus has a quick snack in front of him - his Hunger about to be sated in a few seconds, and Palpatine persuades him not to?


By the way, is this before or after Traya has hit Luke and Palpatine with her own Giga-drain?

Palpatine tells Nihilus about nearby planet full of life. Nihilus gets intrigued, Traya starts protesting but Nihilus gets annoyed and strips her of the Force. Nihilus comes to the planet according to Palpatine's coordinates. Palpatine orders Luke to shoot planet down with Death Star. The End.

I doubt Sidious could enthrall Nihilus. Palpatine has great psychic feats sure, but as we saw with Marek it takes him time to subdue a powerful opponent in that way and he can be interrupted. If this was not a 2v2 fight I wouldn't put it passed him to be capable of it, but I doubt Traya, who is also an accomplished telepath, won't assist her teammate should he come under mental assualt.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I doubt Sidious could enthrall Nihilus. Palpatine has great psychic feats sure, but as we saw with Marek it takes him time to subdue a powerful opponent in that way and he can be interrupted. If this was not a 2v2 fight I wouldn't put it passed him to be capable of it, but I doubt Traya, who is also an accomplished telepath, won't assist her teammate should he come under mental assualt.


Good point.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Palpatine could break Nihilus's ravenous Hunger, that is so deep and set that it causes him to need to feed on entire Planet-fulls of people and makes up his very being?

So Nihilus has a quick snack in front of him - his Hunger about to be sated in a few seconds, and Palpatine persuades him not to?


By the way, is this before or after Traya has hit Luke and Palpatine with her own Giga-drain? This is after the speed blitz from Sidious that kills Traya. Palpatine then uses tasty Force-Bacon to sate Nihilus for a moment. Then he murders him.



Anyways, when it comes down to it, Palpatine can dominate just about anybody. There is not much I put past his abilities. Besides, Luke is here. Luke as well could probably take Nihilus down, because the Giga-drain is a complete unknown on length of time and such and such, blah blah blah. Trays may not be powerful enough to take them both down on the first try. I mean, the son of the Chosen One and the most powerful Sith ever. There is some serious firepower there.

Originally posted by Pwned
This is after the speed blitz from Sidious that kills Traya. Palpatine then uses tasty Force-Bacon to sate Nihilus for a moment. Then he murders him.




Traya can strike with her Giga-drain in a second - I don't think Palpatine can cross 20 Feet in that time.

He gets struck in mid-air, stunned - and leaving Luke helpless to deal with the monster in front of him.

Good job, Palpatine.





Originally posted by Pwned

Anyways, when it comes down to it, Palpatine can dominate just about anybody.




Nihilus is already dominated by his Hunger - which is telling him that he's a few moments away from a good snack.






Originally posted by Pwned

Luke as well could probably take Nihilus down, because the Giga-drain is a complete unknown on length of time and such and such, blah blah blah.


One second to stun, and a couple more to kill.


You are new to Star Wars, or just KotoR?

I just haven't played KoToR 2 in over a year. Cousins broke the disc.


Palpatines speed blitz takes a second. And Traya had a couple seconds of time where she would probably have been building up power. We are using an imcomplete scene that changes depending on the playthrough for evidence, so we really can't debate it, honestly.

Rewatch the fight scene with the Jedi, I would say he crossed 20+ feet in a second, killing one on landing. And I think we can agree Traya is not so much a fighter as a manipulator, yes?

Luke.... Well, he's Luke. Unless he turns back to the Light in the middle of this fight, or he is enraged, I don't see him faring well. However, he could take down Traya. Especially since the Jedi masters did not seem prepared for a Force attack.


I am talking about the drain that can massacre everything, nothing to do about it. That is an unknown. Otherwise, he didn't even kill Mandalore or Visas with it. I don't think he will take down Palpatine or Luke.


Its cheating, but Sidious also has his whole "essence transfer" thing. So he just keeps coming back.

Originally posted by Pwned
I just haven't played KoToR 2 in over a year. Cousins broke the disc.




My heart goes out to you - that's never good.

Ah well, forgiveness is a virtue.






Originally posted by Pwned

Palpatines speed blitz takes a second.


Proof that he can cross 20 Feet in a second?





Originally posted by Pwned

And Traya had a couple seconds of time where she would probably have been building up power.


The amount of time needed to launch the attack never changes - it's one second.





Originally posted by Pwned

Rewatch the fight scene with the Jedi, I would say he crossed 20+ feet in a second, killing one on landing.



I counted around 15 Feet - and it took him two seconds - Palpatine gets close, but dies.





Originally posted by Pwned

Luke.... Well, he's Luke. Unless he turns back to the Light in the middle of this fight, or he is enraged, I don't see him faring well. However, he could take down Traya. Especially since the Jedi masters did not seem prepared for a Force attack.



They were prepared for a fight, Force or no - and were even prepared to strip the Force from their opponant.





Originally posted by Pwned

I am talking about the drain that can massacre everything, nothing to do about it. That is an unknown. Otherwise, he didn't even kill Mandalore or Visas with it. I don't think he will take down Palpatine or Luke.



You sound really confused.





Originally posted by Pwned

Its cheating, but Sidious also has his whole "essence transfer" thing. So he just keeps coming back.



He can only transfer his essence into Passive targets (I.E. Clones, Fetuses.)

Last I checked, neither Nihilus nor Kreia is one of those.

Originally posted by Pwned
Palpatines speed blitz takes a second.

No, it didn't.

Watch the first half minute here. At 0:22, Palpatine ignites his saber. By 0:28 seconds, he's landed his first fairly straightforward blow.

This is the point where I remind you that Traya can TK him like Yoda did successfully, stun him, or drain him if he's not prepped to defend it. It's not been established what the prep time for defending against a powerful Force drain, and the Exile gets a pass because her defense is always up, part of her nature.

Traya
Weak in terms of lightsaber combat(due to age like RotJ Palpatine). Though, she is exceptionally good with TK as demonstrated by her manipulation of 3 lightsabers simultaneously. Although she did get stripped of the Force by Nihilus, I believe she took lesson out of it and became stronger after that. Otherwise, it wouldn't be her the main villain of the story. Sion was Sith and achieved immortality even before she was born, yet, he became her apprentice. That's quite an achievement.

Nihilus
I am against idea of Nihilus being mind dominated as he is pure evil. The only emotion is hunger. The only way Palpatine could, possibly, expose his emotions is by persuading him to drain Traya. But as it was already mentioned as long as she is alive, she can prevent it, unless, Nihilus becomes uncontrollably insane.

Luke
There is a fair chance that Luke might be easy prey to Force drain, if it is DE Luke.
He demonstrated drain resistance much later with Lomi Plo and Krayt.
However, I did find source of him encountering Force drain during rebellion era: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/S'ybll . However, I don't know that story and how he managed to overcome Force drain.

Palpatine.
I simply don't accept idea of him falling prey to Force drain as he is master of it himself. Having knowledge passed to him from 1000 years of Rule of Two as well as direct advises from ancient Sith, his arsenal of defensive/offensive techniques supposed to be flawless.

Overall, while first team gets advantage with Force drain ability, which is subject to a lot of speculation, second team has advantage on combat feats as well as immense Force potential.

Also, Nihilus' drain ability doesn't make him immune to Force attacks. For instance, Force push is not the Force attacking opponent, it is effect caused by Force - "launching a concussive burst of pressurized air". And Force lightning is not a raw Force, it is electricity. So unless Nihilus keeps his Force defenses up, he will receive full TK impacts. Same for Traya, if she can't deflect/absorb Force lightning, she is cooked.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
My heart goes out to you - that's never good.

Ah well, forgiveness is a virtue.


Proof that he can cross 20 Feet in a second?



The amount of time needed to launch the attack never changes - it's one second.


I counted around 15 Feet - and it took him two seconds - Palpatine gets close, but dies.


hey were prepared for a fight, Force or no - and were even prepared to strip the Force from their opponant.


You sound really confused.




He can only transfer his essence into Passive targets (I.E. Clones, Fetuses.)

Last I checked, neither Nihilus nor Kreia is one of those. Thank you for your sympathy. That had been my favorite of the two....
I thought of it as about 20. Its a large office. And I am not counting the dramatic poses. They are not actually needed to strike a blow. That cuts it down to approximately 1 second.

I was in a rush, let me elaborate: The Giga-drain that killed Katarr. We have no clue on that ability. The one he used on the Exile and co. would be a Hunger-Drain (thats how I classify ones more powerful than normal, but not much) which did not even kill Visas and Mandalore, despite affecting them.

When Traya drained the Council, they were ready for a saber fight, they did not actually expect an instant attack that would kill them. It IS possible to suprise people with a Force attack. It has been done a LOT. And she is the Lord of Betrayal.....


I didn't mean Nihilus and Traya, he would have clones somewhere else. So he goes to one of them, then he just keeps coming back. Maybe with the Eclipse or something. Maybe a bacon sammich?

Originally posted by Pwned
Thank you for your sympathy. That had been my favorite of the two....



It's a hard game to find - but maybe they'll re-release it for the 360?

It could happen.



Originally posted by Pwned
I thought of it as about 20. Its a large office. And I am not counting the dramatic poses. They are not actually needed to strike a blow. That cuts it down to approximately 1 second.



Considering Palpy was fighting for his life against four of the greatest Jedi warriors in the Order - those movements weren't done for flair.

They were necessary maneuvers aimed at enhancing his movements as he leapt.

And I counted somewhere between 13 and 15 Feet visually - though it could have been 16 or 17.

In other words - it's close, but no cigar. And also 1 second too late.

So, he would get really close, before succumbing and dying.

A valiant effort.







Originally posted by Pwned
I was in a rush, let me elaborate: The Giga-drain that killed Katarr. We have no clue on that ability. The one he used on the Exile and co. would be a Hunger-Drain



They're all the same Drain.

Kreia uses a weaker, less advanced version that can still stun and kill enemies in a moment.





Originally posted by Pwned
(thats how I classify ones more powerful than normal, but not much) which did not even kill Visas and Mandalore, despite affecting them.



Nihilus never attempted to drain them - only the Exile, when she popped the idea.





Originally posted by Pwned
When Traya drained the Council, they were ready for a saber fight, they did not actually expect an instant attack that would kill them. It IS possible to suprise people with a Force attack. It has been done a LOT. And she is the Lord of Betrayal.....




They were ready to fight an experienced Jedi who had possibly turned to the Dark side - and strip her of the Force.

It's safe to assume that at this point they were prepared for the worst.

Sabers, Force. Etc.






Originally posted by Pwned
I didn't mean Nihilus and Traya, he would have clones somewhere else. So he goes to one of them, then he just keeps coming back. Maybe with the Eclipse or something. Maybe a bacon sammich?



The setting battleground is Dxun - if Palpatine were to perish there and transfer his spirit somewhere else it would be forfeiting; he would leave Luke at the mercy of the two Sith monsters.

Also, as Nihilus's Drain eats Force energy, Palpatine's essence would make for a very tasty snack - so he won't be transferring anywhere, except for Nihilus's stomach.

No, I ment the "pull lightsaber back to attack, see Mace do the same" dramatic poses.

They were prepared to strip one person of their powers, which I am fairly certain is also NOT instantaneous. They would have the draw the power out.

He tried to drain Visas and Mandalore on mine. That much I do remember.

They is a difference. Hunger is different than a drain. Drains are not as effective as Hunger. Becuase you can't get an ability like Nihilus' in the game that auto kills them, you have to use the drain chain

Perception will differ between us I suppose. I count 20 feet. And you are right. I counted three seconds between the beginning of the leap to the first kill. But thats counting in the stupid dramatic poses. So yeah, 2 sounds about right.

Originally posted by Pwned
No, I ment the "pull lightsaber back to attack, see Mace do the same" dramatic poses.



He'll be dead before he lands, so it's moot.





Originally posted by Pwned

They were prepared to strip one person of their powers, which I am fairly certain is also NOT instantaneous. They would have the draw the power out.



There was also three of them. They were prepared for a fight.




Originally posted by Pwned

He tried to drain Visas and Mandalore on mine. That much I do remember.



Your memory does not serve you well. You need to play the game again.




Originally posted by Pwned

They is a difference. Hunger is different than a drain. Drains are not as effective as Hunger. Becuase you can't get an ability like Nihilus' in the game that auto kills them, you have to use the drain chain



Lol... while you raise a good point about the difference between Nihilus's Drain and drains in general, Kreia has the same Giga-drain as Nihilus - only much weaker. She made that clear in the game.





Originally posted by Pwned

Perception will differ between us I suppose. I count 20 feet. And you are right. I counted three seconds between the beginning of the leap to the first kill. But thats counting in the stupid dramatic poses. So yeah, 2 sounds about right.


Yep, either way, close - but no cigar.

Palpy dies.

I still don't buy that Kreia can just spontaneously murder anybody ever. Why didn't she do it to the Exile? I bet that that their Hunger will only work on people about as powerful as you. It also needs some way to keep them still or otherwise unresisting, I would wager. Every time it was used the victim was not moving. The Council were standing there like idiots. The Exile was frozen in place.

When did she say she had the Hunger?

Do you remember what happened when Nihilus tried to drain the Exile? Thats why Kreia didn't try it.

Kreia's slaughter of three Council members in combat hardly gives her a decisive advantage over Sidious anymore than Palpatine's ability to slaughter three Council members in combat gives him a decisive advantage.

Pwned, your debate is doomed for simple reason that you entered her field by admitting that Palpatine can be Force drained and instead rely on such things as his speed and essence transfer. Losing his body with possibility to lose more bodies after transfer is way too much embarrassment for Palpatine.

Originally posted by Pwned
I still don't buy that Kreia can just spontaneously murder anybody ever. Why didn't she do it to the Exile? I bet that that their Hunger will only work on people about as powerful as you. It also needs some way to keep them still or otherwise unresisting, I would wager. Every time it was used the victim was not moving. The Council were standing there like idiots. The Exile was frozen in place. When did she say she had the Hunger?


Again, it's obvious you need to play the game.

The Exile is what's known as a Force Wound - that's what Nihilus is - and the only Canonical immunity to his Giga-drain.

The Exile decided she would punk Nihilus for lulz and asked Nihilus to Drain her.

He obliged and weakened himself severely, while she fell to the floor laughing.

And yes, the Giga-Drain stuns the opponant so that even powerful High Council members were incapacitated.

Again, Kreia didn't attempt to Drain the Exile because she's a Force Wound.

Damn, it HAS been far to long since I have played that game XD I apologize for that severe stupidity on my part. Its inexcusable.



Anyways, I have a feeling that a Giga-Drain isn't just done on the spot. It seems like it draws to much power. I bet they have to raise their hand still. And drain isn't going to be their first move, will it? The fight with Nihilus, he didn't just drain on the spot. Kreia never showed a willingness to drain on the spot, I mean she took a weapon after Sion. She could have Giga-drained him.


You do realize that I am just saying that a speed blitz is a viable tactic, right? Im trying to avoid the "W0rmhol3s LUL!" thing. I mean, he could just fry them with lightning. No stopping that, considering how they never showed any form of resistance to it.



And Arhael: Thats because I can't find a copy of the book where he shows a way of stopping it. So I decided not to mention it because I can't actually grab a copy and back it up.

Originally posted by Arhael
Pwned, your debate is doomed for simple reason that you entered her field by admitting that Palpatine can be Force drained and instead rely on such things as his speed and essence transfer. Losing his body with possibility to lose more bodies after transfer is way too much embarrassment for Palpatine.

If he is drained he won't be able to body hop.

Originally posted by Pwned
Damn, it HAS been far to long since I have played that game XD I apologize for that severe stupidity on my part. Its inexcusable.



Anyways, I have a feeling that a Giga-Drain isn't just done on the spot. It seems like it draws to much power. I bet they have to raise their hand still. And drain isn't going to be their first move, will it? The fight with Nihilus, he didn't just drain on the spot. Kreia never showed a willingness to drain on the spot, I mean she took a weapon after Sion. She could have Giga-drained him.


You do realize that I am just saying that a speed blitz is a viable tactic, right? Im trying to avoid the "W0rmhol3s LUL!" thing. I mean, he could just fry them with lightning. No stopping that, considering how they never showed any form of resistance to it.



And Arhael: Thats because I can't find a copy of the book where he shows a way of stopping it. So I decided not to mention it because I can't actually grab a copy and back it up.

Kreia drained the Council after her speech was done. All she did was raise her hand and do it. And when she fought Sion she was still partially cut off from the Force. Its unclear how much she had recovered from Nihilus draining her.

Plus she had just stopped being, well, dead.

But I agree that speedblitz is viable.

The problem is, there is the question of "Was she using that speech to cover up a build up of power in order to kill them?"

I believe yes, there was. On the basis that it seems so powerful that it would require a large amount of power.

Again, I haven't played that game in over a year. I can't remember every little detail.

Theres no proof or anything in the game that indicates the drain requires a build up to be able to use. You can speculate if you want, as have others, but in the end its just speculation.

Thats my problem with it, honestly. Its the fact that we know next to nothing about the cutscene. She gives a speech, holds up her hand, half a second later they die.

Though honestly, if somebody is up in her face attacking her with a lightsaber, will she try and drain them? Or will she be dodging and fighting back with her lightsaber (s? maybe some triple saber shenanigans)

Originally posted by Pwned
Damn, it HAS been far to long since I have played that game XD I apologize for that severe stupidity on my part. Its inexcusable.



No, it's excusable. Just make sure to re-acquaint yourself with the mechanics, when you can.






Originally posted by Pwned

Anyways, I have a feeling that a Giga-Drain isn't just done on the spot. It seems like it draws to much power. I bet they have to raise their hand still. And drain isn't going to be their first move, will it? The fight with Nihilus, he didn't just drain on the spot. Kreia never showed a willingness to drain on the spot, I mean she took a weapon after Sion. She could have Giga-drained him.



Sion is Immortal.

The Giga-drain takes a second to strike and it will pretty much be their first move in a deliberate duel - especially when Nihilus wants a snack.






Originally posted by Pwned

You do realize that I am just saying that a speed blitz is a viable tactic, right?



It's not. There is a 20 Foot space between Palpy and his opponants - and we already covered why he'll die - see above posts.

Luke wouldn't fare much better - so no, speed blitz isn't viable.





Originally posted by Pwned

Im trying to avoid the "W0rmhol3s LUL!" thing. I mean, he could just fry them with lightning. No stopping that, considering how they never showed any form of resistance to it.



Yeah, wormholes were deemed uneffective by people other than me - and lightning won't do anything.

Full-powered Nihilus could likely tank lightning like it's a joke - and besides - he can just eat it up.

Originally posted by Pwned
Thats my problem with it, honestly. Its the fact that we know next to nothing about the cutscene. She gives a speech, holds up her hand, half a second later they die.

Though honestly, if somebody is up in her face attacking her with a lightsaber, will she try and drain them? Or will she be dodging and fighting back with her lightsaber (s? maybe some triple saber shenanigans)


If she wants to, she'll be draining them, before then.

Nihilus never showed ANY resistance to lightning, ever. Palpatine could shoot lightning, could use mega-TK, speed blitz, whatever.


From the few cutscenes where they are fighting, neither seem inclined to just "DRAIN! LUL!" they fight with sabers or the Force, while waiting for a better time to eat them.


Again, where does Kreia say she can do EXACTLY the same type of draining as Nihilus? I could have sworn he was a special case.

While yes, Nihilus is driven by nothign BUT hunger, he doesn't just do it.


Sion is immortal in a vague sense of the word, I will admit. But if the drain is so powerful, it would kill him.

Nihilus doesn't have a physical body. What would Lightning do to him?

Kreia explains about what Nihilus' drain does if you ask her about it: that it completely drains a target of the Force. Later if you check the corpses of teh Council it says that they've been completely drained of the Force.

At last you gave truly good point.
As I said earlier Force lightning is electricity, which is effect caused by the Force, yet, it is electricity (energy), not the Force itself. Nihilus can absorb the Force but there is no evidence of him absorbing energy.
And TK is accelerated air particles sent in one or other direction. Force push cannot be absorbed in any way, it only can be blocked only by counter TK.

How? Unless his armor is made of something that can resist extremely high temperatures, you can't prove it.

Turn his armor into ashes, so there is nothing his spirit can stick to? Nihilus' body is his armor. You harm him by harming his armor.

Originally posted by Pwned
Nihilus never showed ANY resistance to lightning, ever. Palpatine could shoot lightning, could use mega-TK, speed blitz, whatever.


From the few cutscenes where they are fighting, neither seem inclined to just "DRAIN! LUL!" they fight with sabers or the Force, while waiting for a better time to eat them.


Again, where does Kreia say she can do EXACTLY the same type of draining as Nihilus? I could have sworn he was a special case.

While yes, Nihilus is driven by nothign BUT hunger, he doesn't just do it.


Sion is immortal in a vague sense of the word, I will admit. But if the drain is so powerful, it would kill him.




I'll get all the proof for this, tomorrow.

I have business to attend to. Night.

Originally posted by Arhael
At last you gave truly good point.
As I said earlier Force lightning is electricity, which is effect caused by the Force, yet, it is electricity (energy), not the Force itself. Nihilus can absorb the Force but there is no evidence of him absorbing energy.
And TK is accelerated air particles sent in one or other direction. Force push cannot be absorbed in any way, it only can be blocked only by counter TK.
Neither of these is necessarily correct.

FL did not work on the Vong; it arced around them instead of going into them. Obviously there is a Force-component that could be absorbed/redirected.

TK is usually described as being "gripped" or "shoved" rather than "blown." Even if Vastor was a huge bamf, for him to blow Mace Windu is anatomically impossible. i'm talking about blow jobs

Force lightning worked on the Vong when Jaina Solo used it.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Force lightning worked on the Vong when Jaina Solo used it.
o.0
source? I thought Traitor has a line saying that FL didn't work before Jacen got intimate with the Vong.

So now the novels contradict each other?

Originally posted by Major Valerian
So now the novels contradict each other?
Not necessarily. Ysalamri did not create the actual void in the Force. They created protective shell.

"Ysalamiri did not actually negate the Force; since all existence was infused with Force energy this would not be possible. Rather, they projected a bubble inside which users were unable to exert any influence over the Force." - I know same unreliable wookieepedia but it makes sense, why their bubble protects from Force lightning, while Vong's - doesn't.

remember the dark jedi that killed the vong with the force too....

Originally posted by truejedi
remember the dark jedi that killed the vong with the force too....
Ye, with Force net. I was discarding it because it is not lightning but now wondering why discard other variations of Force attacks at all. Even Force push worked on Vong with less effect. Clearly they still were affected by effects caused by the Force.
So Nihilus still gets pleasure from being pounded by TK and getting his armor burned by lightning.

Didn't Nihilus survive the destruction of Malachor V's surface via Mass Shadow Generators?

Also, this "hurdur we don't know how much time Giga Drain takes to use" shit needs to go away.

I assume everyone here has seen the comic where Nihilus destroys Visas's world? According to it, it was with a word. You can argue against that, but you'd only look stupid in doing so.

Traya is probably the weakest character here IMHO. She's certainly far less powerful than Nihilus. Since he sort of dominated her the one time they fought.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Didn't Nihilus survive the destruction of Malachor V's surface via Mass Shadow Generators?

Also, this "hurdur we don't know how much time Giga Drain takes to use" shit needs to go away.

I assume everyone here has seen the comic where Nihilus destroys Visas's world? According to it, it was with a word. You can argue against that, but you'd only look stupid in doing so.

Traya is probably the weakest character here IMHO. She's certainly far less powerful than Nihilus. Since he sort of dominated her the one time they fought.

Succinct and brutal. I like it.

I argued against it with Nai once. Nothing was resolved.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Didn't Nihilus survive the destruction of Malachor V's surface via Mass Shadow Generators?

Also, this "hurdur we don't know how much time Giga Drain takes to use" shit needs to go away.

I assume everyone here has seen the comic where Nihilus destroys Visas's world? According to it, it was with a word. You can argue against that, but you'd only look stupid in doing so.

Traya is probably the weakest character here IMHO. She's certainly far less powerful than Nihilus. Since he sort of dominated her the one time they fought.


Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Succinct and brutal. I like it.



Pretty astute. I agree.

mK8UiRGIltY

0:54 would make a great scene in a live-action movie..

Nihilus, just standing there over her - like Death.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Didn't Nihilus survive the destruction of Malachor V's surface via Mass Shadow Generators?

Also, this "hurdur we don't know how much time Giga Drain takes to use" shit needs to go away.

I assume everyone here has seen the comic where Nihilus destroys Visas's world? According to it, it was with a word. You can argue against that, but you'd only look stupid in doing so.

Traya is probably the weakest character here IMHO. She's certainly far less powerful than Nihilus. Since he sort of dominated her the one time they fought. Actually.... No, I have not read that. What's the title? I will look up a pdf of it or something.


I think Nihilus was one of the Jedi in orbit. He survived, but he became the Lord of Hunger.

I agree, Traya really is not the front line fighter here.

Nemebro is talking about the video Battlemaster posted above you. It shows the comic.

Ah. That hadn't loaded the first time.
It appears it hardly takes any time for him to destroy a world.

Luke is not very powerful by Dark Empire. Traya is more powerful umo.

Originally posted by Pwned

I think Nihilus was one of the Jedi in orbit. He survived, but he became the Lord of Hunger.



You know, you could always research stuff you don't know - instead of pulling stuff out of your ass, and looking vaguely stupid for it.



Originally posted by Pwned

I agree, Traya really is not the front line fighter here.



Her Giga-drain is her only saving grace - but it's enough.




Originally posted by Pwned
It appears it hardly takes any time for him to destroy a world.


Such an honor to meet Sherlock Holmes, in the flesh. euro

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Luke is not very powerful by Dark Empire. Traya is more powerful umo.


I'd say by Dark Empire Luke is definitely formidable - and almost on par with Yoda.

In terms of conventional combat, he surpasses Traya by a little bit - however Traya's probably still better at mindrape - and of course, her Giga-drain trumps anything Luke has in his arsenal.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Luke is not very powerful by Dark Empire. Traya is more powerful umo. He is at his pick at that time. Another matter is that he is not as skilled, yet, to utilize his power in most effective way.


You should say "probably" instead of "of course" as I have already shown evidence that he encountered Force drain prior to DE. And he still has got his AT-AT crippling TK, which can as easily trump her before even trying anything.

As has been said - he did manage to tank the blast that leveled the surface of Malachor V via Mass Shadow Generators - so a little bit of lightning won't do much to him, other than tickle him.
You've got amazing logic. Let me apply it elsewhere.
Ja Ja bings during invasion of his home world destroyed many droids and war tanks. - so a few of assassin droids won't do much to him.

Most powrful Sith of all time gets crushed like a cockroach and Luke is on par with Nihilus and beyond Sidious in TK... Do you smoke?

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
It more likely Niihlus contorl palpatine

Not even close. Palpatine has proven to be the strongest will in the entire mythos.

Also (for anyone who might know): Would Palpatine's control over his wormholes be an impressive feat with TK? If so, how impressive?

I'd say Bane has the strongest will personally considering her lived in constant pain from the Orbalisks for about 10 years.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'd say Bane has the strongest will personally considering her lived in constant pain from the Orbalisks for about 10 years.

But lost to to Zannah in a battle of wills....

?
Palpatine's mastery of the Force Storm technique has nothing to do with what we consider to be telekinesis unless you get absolutely strict with the definition.



I'd say that's more accurately a description of pain threshold than sheer willpower.

Ok, then Zannah has the strongest will. Although when he lost to her he was in incredible agony, had his arm lopped off and was dying, so yeah.

I consider that will. To live in that state for 10 years would require unspeakable discipline imo.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not even close. Palpatine has proven to be the strongest will in the entire mythos.

Also (for anyone who might know): Would Palpatine's control over his wormholes be an impressive feat with TK? If so, how impressive?

I don't think his control over Wormhole's has anything to do with TK.

He just projects energy that peels back time and space, projects it toward a location with an object, and has it transport the object somewhere else.

Kind of apples/oranges.

Plus, despite his will, he couldn't even control his own storms.

Nihilus has Palpy firmly beat in the TK area.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
?
Palpatine's mastery of the Force Storm technique has nothing to do with what we consider to be telekinesis unless you get absolutely strict with the definition.

Summoning them, no. I mean like controling it's direction and size.

I guess it depends how much you consider willpower to be akin to telepathy.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Summoning them, no. I mean like controling it's direction and size.

As I said, it depends on how strict you get with the definition.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Summoning them, no. I mean like controling it's direction and size.



More of a matter of energy - like controlling Force lightning's direction and width as you project it - and not a matter of manipulating a physical object, through the Force, which is what TK, is.

I can see we must be desperate, if we're grasping for anything we can here.

A wormhole would be a projected energy vortex - with the ability to fuel it's own movements, and send an object through a displacement field - and back to it's point of origin, or another.

In other words, it's an energy weapon - reversed, and not TK, but an energetic fuel-cell.

Apparently, though, he can't make these things close to him, and doesn't have perfect control with them. (I thought he did, initially)

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Plus, despite his will, he couldn't even control his own storms.

He did control his force storms though. The only time he lost control was when Luke and Leia bathed him in a "wall of light", which took far more concentration and time from them than it was for Palpatine to summon a one.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
More of a matter of energy - like controlling Force lightning's direction and width as you project it - and not a matter of manipulating a physical object, through the Force, which is what TK, is.

No, force lightning is not comparable. At the center of the storm is a gravitational force strong enough to pull ships in, ripping them to pieces. It seems like it would take a lot of control with TK to move it's direction and then to close it back up.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
I can see we must be desperate, if we're grasping for anything we can here.

lol... Not at all girl. It was just a question.

One of the theories about Force Storm is that Sidious applied Force TK to accelerate particles to move at enormous speed as result creating wormholes.

Possibly, but I've seen nothing to confirm or suggest this. All he mentions is "anger" and "will" and "murderous wrath" and all that Hallmark nonsense.

Originally posted by Arhael
One of the theories about Force Storm is that Sidious applied Force TK to accelerate particles to move at enormous speed as result creating wormholes.

Darth Rivan iirc, made a staff that did a similar effect. If true, that would imply that he imbued an object with enough Force/TK power to do things we cannot do in our own era.

That kind of upsets the applecart.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Darth Rivan iirc, made a staff that did a similar effect. If true, that would imply that he imbued an object with enough Force/TK power to do things we cannot do in our own era.

That kind of upsets the applecart.
That's magic!

Back before a certain point, Force -was- magic. Then GL made midi-chlorians.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He did control his force storms though. The only time he lost control was when Luke and Leia bathed him in a "wall of light", which took far more concentration and time from them than it was for Palpatine to summon a one.



I've been led to believe before, that Palpy still needed much concentration to cast Storms, and that his control of them was still very fragile and limited.





Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

No, force lightning is not comparable. At the center of the storm is a gravitational force strong enough to pull ships in, ripping them to pieces. It seems like it would take a lot of control with TK to move it's direction and then to close it back up.



Basically, a hole in space/time is opened - a cyclonic-action is generated one-way, to allow objects to pass into the hole - and an opening is opened elsewhere in the universe to bring those objects out the other side.

Since the cyclonic-action does all the job of moving the physcial matter itself - moving the funnel would take zero TK strength - since you're just moving non-corporeal energy - almost like how a child wouldn't have a problem moving a long/thick lightsaber blade.

Somebody could go, "That kid is five, it's huge! He shouldn't be able to move it so easily!"

"It's just energy."

Closing the hole back up is a matter of simply having it recede the time/space layers, which again, is more of an energy-based matter.




Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

lol... Not at all girl. It was just a question.



Wigga, please.

Originally posted by Arhael
One of the theories about Force Storm is that Sidious applied Force TK to accelerate particles to move at enormous speed as result creating wormholes.


I think I actually saw that in a Fanfic before.

I swear, the "GIGA-DRAIN WINZ LUL" is getting really old. Its on here for like, 3 pages (Note, I did not go back to confirm that, screw it)


Sidious and Luke win. Traya's ONLY hope is the drain, and she has been shown to do it ONCE against targets who were PREPARED for a fight, but not prepared to have the life sucked out of them (as it seems it was a fairly unknown technique, considering how she just did it to them and if they were "prepared for anything" they would have been prepared for it)
And Nihilus has less in-fight TK feats than anybody here (barring Traya, not sure about her) because it takes a LOT of concentration for major TK, as has been shown quite often.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Back before a certain point, Force -was- magic. Then GL made midi-chlorians.



Midi-chlorians made Star Wars almost like DBZ. sly

Originally posted by Pwned
I swear, the "GIGA-DRAIN WINZ LUL" is getting really old. Its on here for like, 3 pages (Note, I did not go back to confirm that, screw it)


Sidious and Luke win. Traya's ONLY hope is the drain, and she has been shown to do it ONCE against targets who were PREPARED for a fight, but not prepared to have the life sucked out of them (as it seems it was a fairly unknown technique, considering how she just did it to them and if they were "prepared for anything" they would have been prepared for it)
And Nihilus has less in-fight TK feats than anybody here (barring Traya, not sure about her) because it takes a LOT of concentration for major TK, as has been shown quite often.




WrjwaqZfjIY

Warship stuck in Gravity Well>3 Senate pods

With TK, Nihilus crushes Luke and Sid's like bugs.

With the Planet-level Giga-drain that is related to Kreia's as confirmed by the Canon postings you must have missed or not read carefully enough, Nihilus om-noms the two poor Sith.

In a way, adding Traya is overkill.

Edit: Canon states there is no defense against her Drain - except being a Force Wound.

If Sidious and Luke can turn themselves into Force Wounds - then they've got a fighting chance.

Originally posted by Pwned
I swear, the "GIGA-DRAIN WINZ LUL" is getting really old. Its on here for like, 3 pages (Note, I did not go back to confirm that, screw it)


Sidious and Luke win. Traya's ONLY hope is the drain, and she has been shown to do it ONCE against targets who were PREPARED for a fight, but not prepared to have the life sucked out of them (as it seems it was a fairly unknown technique, considering how she just did it to them and if they were "prepared for anything" they would have been prepared for it)
And Nihilus has less in-fight TK feats than anybody here (barring Traya, not sure about her) because it takes a LOT of concentration for major TK, as has been shown quite often. Nihilus casually keeps his flagship together by sheer force of will in space. While also mentally enslaving those under him.

I'm pretty sure large-scale TK isn't that taxing for the guy who eats planets with a word. Nihilus is less of a Sith and more like a force of nature.

Also, your argument sucks. "Herp no battle TK feats" ***** please, Nihilus's feat of telekinesis is as far as my recollection goes the best here, yet you would have us believe that somehow the others can apply their telekinesis in combat better "just cuz"? **** no, feats or gtfo.

Nihilus was on Malachor V, a dark side nexus, when he pulled the starships from the gravity well. Additionally, canon never states that the only defense against the technique is by being a Force wound.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Nihilus casually keeps his flagship together by sheer force of will in space. While also mentally enslaving those under him.

I'm pretty sure large-scale TK isn't that taxing for the guy who eats planets with a word. Nihilus is less of a Sith and more like a force of nature.

Also, your argument sucks. "Herp no battle TK feats" ***** please, Nihilus's feat of telekinesis is as far as my recollection goes the best here, yet you would have us believe that somehow the others can apply their telekinesis in combat better "just cuz"? **** no, feats or gtfo.


Amen to that.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
canon never states that the only defense against the technique is by being a Force wound.


Canon displays that it is, and it has not been refuted or altered by another source, since.

.......


Your arguments..... They have not changed since the first page.


All I said was, "The "GIGA-DRAIN WINZ LUL" thing is getting old."

Also, its a field of shadows. Looking it up, I do not see anything implying a gravity well, apart from there being a planet (which obviously has one, but it is not as difficult to breach a planets for strong Force users)

Show me the exact statement where it says NOTHING can defend against that drain except for being a wound.


With TK, Nihilus TRIES to crush Luke and Sidious like bugs, but then they end up killing him.



Looking it up, he was a jedi in orbit of Malachor that survived. He was Human Male, in fact. (Wookieepedia, but it doesn't really matter, just saying I wasn't pulling it from my ass)

But that isn't the same thing.
Since Luke hasn't been killed in combat yet in the EU, could we accurately say that "canon says Luke is immortal"?

The game did not show a teachable technique to defend against Nihilus's drain. But that does not mean that canon says the only way to defend against it is being a Force wound.

Originally posted by Pwned
.......


Your arguments..... They have not changed since the first page.


All I said was, "The "GIGA-DRAIN WINZ LUL" thing is getting old."

Also, its a field of shadows. Looking it up, I do not see anything implying a gravity well, apart from there being a planet (which obviously has one, but it is not as difficult to breach a planets for strong Force users)

Show me the exact statement where it says NOTHING can defend against that drain except for being a wound.


With TK, Nihilus TRIES to crush Luke and Sidious like bugs, but then they end up killing him.



Looking it up, he was a jedi in orbit of Malachor that survived. He was Human Male, in fact. (Wookieepedia, but it doesn't really matter, just saying I wasn't pulling it from my ass)

The Mass Shadow Generator is really some sort of gravity weapon. Obviously shadows didn't destroy those fleets, I mean cmon, thats just a name.

Why doesn't it collapse upon his death?



This is contextually unimpressive as EU!Sidious has mentally enthralled millions on Coruscant, billions on Byss, and the "tens of trillions" of Imperial fleet personnel.



Nihilus's highest telekinetic showing comes from being empowered on a dark side nexus {Malachor V}. His manipulation of The Ravager has not, to my knowledge, been conclusively proven. His highest canonical showing of telekinesis was putting Kreia on her ass when he overthrew her with Sion's aid.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Why doesn't it collapse upon his death? He has a very good point there.





Neph: I had forgotten the details, I had figured it was some kind of energy that looked like shadows. Thanks for the reminder.

Additionally, if Nihilus is constantly leeching away at the Ravager's crew, it could provide him with sufficient power to hold the ship together {if he is}.

Originally posted by Pwned
Also, its a field of shadows. Looking it up, I do not see anything implying a gravity well, apart from there being a planet (which obviously has one, but it is not as difficult to breach a planets for strong Force users)




You're either a moron, or very new to Star Wars.

When a ship travels in Hyperspace, celestial bodies and planets in real space leave what's called a "Gravity shadow" - where a planet leaves it's gravity signature.

The Mass Shadow Generator was a weapon developed to be able to crush and destroy objects with the force of a planet's weight, like a naturally-occurring Gravity Shadow.

When that weapon went off, and blasted the sufrace of malachor V - one lone man tanked the blast and wrenched one of the Warships caught within the gravity well, and used it to escape.

Our Nihilus.





Originally posted by Pwned

Show me the exact statement where it says NOTHING can defend against that drain except for being a wound.




Go back and read the Canon I've posted, very carefully.





Originally posted by Pwned

With TK, Nihilus TRIES to crush Luke and Sidious like bugs, but then they end up killing him.



Random Magic ftw.





Originally posted by Pwned

Looking it up, he was a jedi in orbit of Malachor that survived. He was Human Male, in fact. (Wookieepedia, but it doesn't really matter, just saying I wasn't pulling it from my ass)



Not in orbit, Retard. He was on the surface where he tanked the effects of the Mass Shadow generator - pulled a Warship from it's influence, and escaped.

Either you can't read properly, or have trouble understanding concepts. It might be #2.

To be fair, you didn't word it very well.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
To be fair, you didn't word it very well.



My faith in his intelligence isn't broken yet.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
My faith in his intelligence isn't broken yet.

Yeah, but he's right: there's a difference between "being a Force wound is the only known way of defending from the Force drain" and "canon states you must be a Force wound to defend against the Force drain." The former may be true; the latter, to my knowledge, definitely isn't.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Yeah, but he's right: there's a difference between "being a Force wound is the only known way of defending from the Force drain" and "canon states you must be a Force wound to defend against the Force drain." The former may be true; the latter, to my knowledge, definitely isn't.


It would take me a while to go back and find a quote.

I'll just stick with Canon for now.


Edit: Canon displays that it's the only defense, either way.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
You're either a moron, or very new to Star Wars.

When a ship travels in Hyperspace, celestial bodies and planets in real space leave what's called a "Gravity shadow" - where a planet leaves it's gravity signature.

The Mass Shadow Generator was a weapon developed to be able to crush and destroy objects with the force of a planet's weight, like a naturally-occurring Gravity Shadow.

When that weapon went off, and blasted the sufrace of malachor V - one lone man tanked the blast and wrenched one of the Warships caught within the gravity well, and used it to escape.

Our Nihilus.










Go back and read the Canon I've posted, very carefully.









Random Magic ftw.









Not in orbit, Retard. He was on the surface where he tanked the effects of the Mass Shadow generator - pulled a Warship from it's influence, and escaped.

Either you can't read properly, or have trouble understanding concepts. It might be #2. Double checked, you were right, he was on the surface. My bad.

Or maybe I live in a small town with little to no access to material as it is released? Seriously, I can't even get e-books because of money issues. And my local library is a joke.


The canon you posted.... You mean the stuff I did read? Some of it I haven't even addressed. And with what I am saying, I am leaving it to the side for other points. If you think it overlaps, then go ahead, I didn't intend for it,

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Why doesn't it collapse upon his death?

Was the Ravager even moving at that point? Why would it collapse instantly in the case that it wasn't.


Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
This is contextually unimpressive as EU!Sidious has mentally enthralled millions on Coruscant, billions on Byss, and the "tens of trillions" of Imperial fleet personnel.

I don't believe Nemebro was using that as a standalone feat, but was pointing out that Nihilus was holding the Ravager together whilst simultaneously dominating the minds of his thralls.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Nihilus's highest telekinetic showing comes from being empowered on a dark side nexus {Malachor V}. His manipulation of The Ravager has not, to my knowledge, been conclusively proven. His highest canonical showing of telekinesis was putting Kreia on her ass when he overthrew her with Sion's aid.

Even if Malachor doubled his power it is still a greater telekinetic feat than any Sidious has ever performed. A dark side nexus doesn't increase a persons power that much, as shown by Dooku's rather small boost from Vjun.

Originally posted by Pwned
Double checked, you were right, he was on the surface. My bad.

Or maybe I live in a small town with little to no access to material as it is released? Seriously, I can't even get e-books because of money issues. And my local library is a joke.


The canon you posted.... You mean the stuff I did read? Some of it I haven't even addressed. And with what I am saying, I am leaving it to the side for other points. If you think it overlaps, then go ahead, I didn't intend for it,


I am nothing, if not a soft-hearted Debator!!

Because Tobin mentioned that Nihilus was holding it together. If Nihilus is gone, the ship should have collapsed.



Given all the things Sidious did while enthralling the fleet or transforming Byss or whatever else, this multitasking is quite frankly unimpressive relatively.



Well, as much as you want it to be, Malachor V and Vjun are not the same planets and so it is very possible that Malachor, having experienced a far travesty in terms of a body count and physical devastation, has a much more powerful dark side nexus than Vjun.

Vjun- Dark Side is present in the planet. Gave Dooku enough of a boost that he could singe Yoda.
Malachor V- Unknown, but with major travesty occuring.
Ambria- Gave a Sith the ability to give form to the Dark Side of the Force.
Endor- An echo of the death of Palpatine (the guy was so powerful in ROTJ that his death left a dark side nexus)
Mon Calamari- Has squid people.


Each planet is different in what it can do in regards to a nexus.

Mon Cala is a dark side/Force nexus?

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Mon Cala is a dark side/Force nexus?



Must be the Cthulhu influence.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Because Tobin mentioned that Nihilus was holding it together. If Nihilus is gone, the ship should have collapsed.

Why?

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Given all the things Sidious did while enthralling the fleet or transforming Byss or whatever else, this multitasking is quite frankly unimpressive relatively.

Ah, but Sidious achieved that by unknown means, possibly ritualistic in nature. Theres no indication that he needs to constantly maintain the domination in order for it to be effective. In contrast we know how Nihilus enthralled his crew: The same way the Exile enthralled hers.


Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Well, as much as you want it to be, Malachor V and Vjun are not the same planets and so it is very possible that Malachor, having experienced a far travesty in terms of a body count and physical devastation, has a much more powerful dark side nexus than Vjun.


There isn't a single instance of a dark side nexus being even nearly as effective as you are claiming. There is no nexus that powerful. And still, even if it doubled Nihilus' power (a completely absurd figure), the feat would still be more powerful than any Sidious has ever performed.

.....

I am not even going to mention that Mon Cal was a joke in there..... I didn't think it needed to be said. But I mentioned it.



Yes, Battlemaster, it is the influence of Cthulu.

Dxun is a Dark side nexus. *Cough cough* *Wink wink*

Because the source of the power holding the ship together is dead?



Which doesn't make it more impressive?



The disaster at Malachor V was powerful enough to generate two Force wounds; it stands to reason that, given the catastrophe it endured, it is much more powerful than the nexus at play on Vjun. More importantly, Nihilus achieved that by unknown means, possibly ritualistic in nature.

Originally posted by Pwned
.....

I am not even going to mention that Mon Cal was a joke in there..... I didn't think it needed to be said. But I mentioned it.



Yes, Battlemaster, it is the influence of Cthulu.


angel_not

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
The disaster at Malachor V was powerful enough to generate two Force wounds; it stands to reason that, given the catastrophe it endured, it is much more powerful than the nexus at play on Vjun. More importantly, Nihilus achieved that by unknown means, possibly ritualistic in nature.


Nihilus didn't know Sith rituals at the time.

Cthulu is the creator of the Quarren, meaning everything bad that happened there is his fault.

Originally posted by Pwned
Cthulu is the creator of the Quarren, meaning everything bad that happened there is his fault.



Lulz.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Nihilus didn't know Sith rituals at the time.

Ritualistic. Nihilus could have meditated on such an obviously powerful dark nexus and used the borrowed energies in such a way that would not be available to him elsewhere.

I wasn't aware that was possible.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Ritualistic. Nihilus could have meditated on such an obviously powerful dark nexus and used the borrowed energies in such a way that would not be available to him elsewhere.


Eh, sounds shady.

If Canon could confirm it, that would be good.


Otherwise... I'm going to steal it and use it in a Fanfic.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I wasn't aware that was possible.

Using meditation to amplify abilities?

Malachor, while it IS a nexus, does not have a clear power level. While I agree it is probably powerful, we do not have proof and shouldn't use it as such.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Eh, sounds shady.

If Canon could confirm it, that would be good.


Otherwise... I'm going to steal it and use it in a Fanfic.



You mean like if canon could confirm that being a Force wound is the only way to defend from Nihilus's drain?

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua


You mean like if canon could confirm that being a Force wound is the only way to defend from Nihilus's drain?





Show me a Canon source that states otherwise, and I'll laugh with you.

Show me a canonical source that says otherwise about Nihilus using meditations or rituals on Malachor and I'll laugh with you.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Using meditation to amplify abilities?

Borrowing energies in such a way. Maybe through sorcery, but Nihilus is no sorcerer.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Show me a canonical source that says otherwise about Nihilus using meditations or rituals on Malachor and I'll laugh with you.



He wasn't taught Sith disciplines yet.

When I said canon source, I didn't mean you.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Borrowing energies in such a way. Maybe through sorcery, but Nihilus is no sorcerer.

Sion borrows the energies of dark side sites to maintain his invulnerability and he's not a known sorcerer.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
When I said canon source, I didn't mean you.


He was taught Sith disciplines after he left Malachor.

I don't believe it was said that he actually was borrowing from dark side nexus'. I thought it was just the general boost that a nexus gives all dark siders abilities.

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/SW_Visionaries_047.jpg

That manifests in functional immortality? Kreia, who is probably more powerful than Sion, doesn't share such powers but instead receives an extraordinarily enhanced sense of precognition, which Sion is not known to share. The specificity and differentiation of the manifestations indicate something else at work beyond standard boosts.

We know from the situation with Vjun and the Works that the loss of life can create a dark side nexus. Given that Malachor V experienced a catastrophe that is, in some ways, completely unique (in that it generated two Force wounds) and witnessed a colossal loss of life {what was the body count?} and empowered Traya's precognition to extraordinary levels, it sounds like Malachor V is an unusually potent dark side nexus.

I checked, and apparently Traya found him and taught him after he left Malachor.

Which is funny, because she went and dragged him back afterwards.




Sidious can fly with the Force? What?

Being an obstinate contrarian today was fun, it actually generated a good discussion.

Originally posted by Pwned
Which is funny, because she went and dragged him back afterwards.



Bingo. That's where he was trained later on.





Originally posted by Pwned

Sidious can fly with the Force? What?



Most powerful Force users can levitate themselves.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Why doesn't it collapse upon his death?

Probably because it was stationary and sort of blew the **** up a few minutes later.

I'm sorry, please don't try to argue against the feat in this fashion. I've heard this argument before. Just concede that Sidious's feats of telekinesis don't match up.



And he did that while holding together a kilo+ long flagship did he at all times and without effort?

And he did this while starved and weakened, like Nihilus did, did he? And then was further weakened and drained from trying to eat the Exile? As well as a possible third draining via Visas either killing herself or disrupting Nihilus's power over the Force?

Oh, and don't forget, he can do all of the above, and still has enough energy to eat the occasional planet.

No but let's be real: Nihilus's telekinesis is better by feats, unless I can't recall something of Sidious's (Which hey, could be the case).



And is leagues more impressive than Sidious's TK showings. Also, let's be real: Tobin outright tells us that it was his fleet, not just the flagship, that was pulled. And the "fallible third party character" argument falls apart because there is frankly no basis to claim Tobin was lying or mistaken about it. Why would he be? Do you think Nihilus lied to Tobin to make himself sound more powerful?



It was stated several times that the ship should fall apart, and only Nihilus's will holds it together.

Stop downplaying to substitute for your lack of an argument.

Ha, no, it really wasn't.

Speaking of ships falling apart, do you know what's better than sinking your opponent's battleship? Having your opponent scuttle it for you.



You'll find that I never claimed Sidious was the superior telekinetic, so I needn't concede anything. I'm enormously clever that way.



Proof he did so without effort?



I was merely pointing out that Sidious is the vastly superior telepath. U mad, bro?









Tobin was a non-Force sensitive whose mind was deteriorating under Nihilus's influence. Hardly a reasonable authority on the matter. More importantly, why would Nihilus tell Tobin that he tore the fleet to begin with? Negotiating for Tobin's allegiance? Trying to impress his grunts?



Unaided? Yes, yes it was.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Most powerful Force users can levitate themselves. But most of them can't levitate themselves into motion (I do so believe, probably wrong. I just haven't seen it)

I mean lateral motion, not vertical.