who is stronger Captain america or Beast?

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red sabre
i know many people will say beast but if we look at the feats we will find out Cap has the better ones , so what do you think who is stronger based on facts?

whacknasty
Err...if you consider feats as facts, then I suppose Cap would be stronger. Beast has the higher strength rating stated/ in the handbook though I believe : /

DTM
In terms of physical strength alone, Beast is definately stronger than Cap. Caps entire thing is that hes peak human, the pinnacle of what a human being can possibly be physically. Beast is superhuman in his strength, which is above peak human. Id give Cap the win over Beast in a fight, but just strength vs strength, Beast definately takes it.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by DTM
Caps entire thing is that hes peak human, the pinnacle of what a human being can possibly be physically.

He's actually more than that... but still below Beast, yeah.

DTM
Well Im sure hes been shown to push himself into the superhuman arena, though the very basis of Cap is that hes the peak of human physical perfection, thats what the SSS does. If Caps been shown to go superhuman in feats its probably more due to him pushing himself beyond his limits. Beast on the other hand has gone from 2 ton strength to 10 - 20 to 80+ tons (though that was during a specific run where he got dumber as he got stronger).

StiltmanFTW
There was a time when Cap's strength was significantly amped, too.

Existere
What has Beast done that puts him above Cap?

ExodusCloak
I was re-reading some of the earlier X-Factor issues and there are some feats there in his human form that could help Beasts argument here.

That was before Pestilence messed with him and he became strong enough to help the Grey Hulk and Thing pry open the High Evolutionary's prison (Grey Hulk and Thing tried together and they couldn't)...so that boost was significant anyway.

TheGodKiller
A gorilla is still much stronger than even a peak human .

namorsubby
Fact: Beast has super-human strengh.


Now somebody close this.

StiltmanFTW
So does Cap. Stop backseat modding.

namorsubby
Cap is a human. Having super human or meta human strength means having strength beyond what is humanly achievable.

Seriously, no ones closed this yet?

Lord Feron
Originally posted by namorsubby
Cap is a human. Having super human or meta human strength means having strength beyond what is humanly achievable.

Seriously, no ones closed this yet?

seriously...

Placidity
Batman wins.

Close.

BUSTER1
I believe Beast to be stronger. In the 1st incarnatioon of the Xmen, he was the nearest thing they had to the team strong man. This was before he had blue fur. When he mutated and grew the blue fur his stats increased. In Hanks feline form, his attack was sufficient to make Hulk's nose bleed in WWH

red sabre
Originally posted by DTM
Beast on the other hand has gone from 2 ton strength to 10 - 20 to 80+ tons

feats please , and i hope you are reffering to canon stories , as far as i know beast didnt do antyhing above 2 tons

red sabre
Originally posted by namorsubby
Cap is a human. Having super human or meta human strength means having strength beyond what is humanly achievable.

Seriously, no ones closed this yet?

by feats Cap is easily in the super human category, but i guess someone like you doesnt care too much about feats right? you got your wiki collection and its all that matters, present me feats of current beast being superior to Captain america in the strength department , i will spank your ass once again with the feats laughing

deathlife
Beast is stronger.

red sabre
Originally posted by deathlife
Beast is stronger.

based on what?

YFZ 350
Originally posted by namorsubby
Fact: Beast has super-human strengh.


Now somebody close this.

JakeTheBank
I think it's a valid thread, especially when people are asking for specific Beast feats in order to properly gauge how strong he is in comparison to Captain America.

Just shouting "Beast has super strength" doesn't really help the thread at all.

red sabre
yep, as i said i would really like to see some beast feats that put him above captain america in strength

CosmicComet
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
A gorilla is still much stronger than even a peak human .

Thankfully Cap isn't a mere peak human.

He's a guy strong enough to throw his shield so fast that it can catch up to ICBMs.

Don Corleone
Originally posted by DTM
Well Im sure hes been shown to push himself into the superhuman arena, though the very basis of Cap is that hes the peak of human physical perfection, thats what the SSS does. If Caps been shown to go superhuman in feats its probably more due to him pushing himself beyond his limits. Beast on the other hand has gone from 2 ton strength to 10 - 20 to 80+ tons (though that was during a specific run where he got dumber as he got stronger).

No way. Never have I seen such a display of strength from Beast. I'm sure he's got strength feats ( I have one of him lifting 500 pounds one handed), but not as high up as you're claiming.

Hyperion Prime
Beast is way stronger than Cap. First he was touched by pestilence, which put him in a state of stupidty. His strength did increase. The he was kiised by infectia which out him in a coma. When he came out of his coma he was way stronger than he had ever been. He did help the Hulk and hercules push some bars open that they could not open. Even at his weakest i think beast is stronger than Cap.

Mr.SunKing
Beast, no doubt

namorsubby
Originally posted by red sabre
by feats Cap is easily in the super human category, but i guess someone like you doesnt care too much about feats right? you got your wiki collection and its all that matters, present me feats of current beast being superior to Captain america in the strength department , i will spank your ass once again with the feats laughing Even if youre the peak of human potential strengh wise that does not make you super humanly strong. If it is within human potential it is not beyond human capability you moron. Super human strength is.

When you make up fake imaginary weight measurements for "your" feats you can make whoever youre siding with seem as strong as you want. However cap is no where near any of those ridiculous made up numbers strengh wise.

Please take the time to learn about characters you include in threads. Beast is not simply stated at a higher level of strengh, but he is actually stronger. His lowest level of 2 tons is higher than cap alone. He's been upgraded several times. No one would have to spoon feed you feats to prove his general strength level if you actually knew the character. But for good measure, look at what some of the feats these nice people have mentioned within this thread.

Existere
Originally posted by namorsubby
No one would have to spoon feed you feats to prove his general strength level if you actually knew the character. Ugh, troll.

Nobody has posted a strength feat yet that is out of either character's range. The best and only real feat mentioned for Beast was lifting 500 pounds in one hand, which is certainly not beyond Cap's ability to do.

ankur29
Originally posted by Existere
Ugh, troll.

Nobody has posted a strength feat yet that is out of either character's range. The best and only real feat mentioned for Beast was lifting 500 pounds in one hand, which is certainly not beyond Cap's ability to do.

616 cap can lift 500lbs with one hand???
I think he could do it, but it would be like a 1 rep lift if its overhead.

btw what is caps best strength feat.

id put him at press lift 0.5-1 tons...

ExodusCloak
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4573/83086272.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3710/27866871.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/5535/44739708.jpg

He lifted a car over his head as human beast, trying to find that. Think it was in one of the early X-Factor guest appearances.

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4573/83086272.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3710/27866871.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/5535/44739708.jpg

He lifted a car over his head as human beast, trying to find that. Think it was in one of the early X-Factor guest appearances.

Hyperion Prime
Man I miss Old school comic art. Beast is stronger by the way.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4573/83086272.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3710/27866871.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/5535/44739708.jpg

He lifted a car over his head as human beast, trying to find that. Think it was in one of the early X-Factor guest appearances.

CosmicComet
Someone post that scan of Cap ripping a rock out of the ground and tossing it at some gunman on a roof.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Someone post that scan of Cap ripping a rock out of the ground and tossing it at some gunman on a roof.

When Beast was infected by Pestilence he got stronger, but the stronger he got he got dumber. In Fall of the Mutants as human beast he picked up one of Apocalypse's machines and chucked it on him. The Ship came crashing down.

Beast was even stronger after his encounter with Infectia. She reverted him back to his animal form and he became even stronger after that.

And Frenzy is in She-Hulk class.

CosmicComet
I don't really care about Beast in this thread tbh. I just want to counter the idea that 500 lbs with one hand would be something impressive for Cap.

It would not be at all.

He's casually lifted i-beams which themselves can be damn near 1000 lbs.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/7604/1269114-captainamericav305061cs8_super.jpg

Forced the base of the statue out while being tied to it. A statue that size would weigh roughly 6 to 7 tons, if not more.

It's not just the weight itself, but the fact that he ripped out the base of it too, that is the most impressive part about it.

Calling Cap even a 1 tonner, is a complete low-balling. That motherphucker is STRONG.

Prep-Man
Man, I wish ZB Brox was still around. He had some awesome Beast feats of strength. I'd give the edge to Beast.

namorsubby
There those cap fans go again making up fake weights to make cap seem stronger than he is. What is the weight of that random, eagle-shaped statue in the scan? Undetermined

Cap is not a 2 tonner. He is not even a 1 tonner.

Mindset
Originally posted by CosmicComet
I don't really care about Beast in this thread tbh. I just want to counter the idea that 500 lbs with one hand would be something impressive for Cap.

It would not be at all.

He's casually lifted i-beams which themselves can be damn near 1000 lbs.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/7604/1269114-captainamericav305061cs8_super.jpg

Forced the base of the statue out while being tied to it. A statue that size would weigh roughly 6 to 7 tons, if not more.

It's not just the weight itself, but the fact that he ripped out the base of it too, that is the most impressive part about it.

Calling Cap even a 1 tonner, is a complete low-balling. That motherphucker is STRONG. I could do that.

JakeTheBank
Pretty sure that statue is like one hundred pounds, tops.

Yeah, sounds about right. thumb up

Raptor22
I saw a scan a while back with beast lifting either a big street lamp or a telephone pole over his head and throwing it. Does anyone know the scene I'm thinking of?

CosmicComet
Originally posted by namorsubby
There those cap fans go again making up fake weights to make cap seem stronger than he is. What is the weight of that random, eagle-shaped statue in the scan? Undetermined

Cap is not a 2 tonner. He is not even a 1 tonner.

No, moron, the weight is very easily ball-parked by a calculation based on the material and apparent size of the object.

Not to mention, simple referencing of real life objects whose weights are known.

Since the statue's weight isn't explicitly told to us, we are completely given free reign to come to a conclusion of its weight.

Cap is definitely not a 2 tonner. He's definitely not a 1 tonner either. That's far too weak.

1-2 tons represents the weight range of a small to large sized 4 door car.

And Cap's feats are far above handling things as light as cars. Like, you know, the statue ripping feat I posted already.

Does it bother you, that Cap lives up his physical hype on the forums so thoroughly, with actual feats--unlike some other dude? I know it does. And I enjoy your whining. smile

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Does it bother you, that Cap lives up his physical hype on the forums so thoroughly, with actual feats--unlike some other dude?

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj94/Lone_Wolf_album/batman_12.jpg

Who are you talking about here?

DTM
Originally posted by red sabre
feats please , and i hope you are reffering to canon stories , as far as i know beast didnt do antyhing above 2 tons

Yes, Im referring to canon stories. I actually never thought Beast having superhuman strength, or Cap having peak human strength, was ever in question. I mean, this thread is kinda like whos faster, Flash or Quicksilver. One can run at lightspeeds, the other like Mach10, this isnt a hard topic to discuss really.

DTM
Originally posted by Don Corleone
No way. Never have I seen such a display of strength from Beast. I'm sure he's got strength feats ( I have one of him lifting 500 pounds one handed), but not as high up as you're claiming.

Yes, very possible. smile

Mindset
Originally posted by DTM
Yes, Im referring to canon stories. I actually never thought Beast having superhuman strength, or Cap having peak human strength, was ever in question. I mean, this thread is kinda like whos faster, Flash or Quicksilver. One can run at lightspeeds, the other like Mach10, this isnt a hard topic to discuss really. QS can run at lightspeed.

DTM
Ah, I didnt know that, is that new-ish? Then lets say old school QS then, he has superspeed but is clearly slower than Flash, Cap is very strong but clearly not as physically strong as Beast.

Existere
Or let's use current QS, and run with the analogy that shows that you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

JakeTheBank
If the answer was so obvious, methinks this thread wouldn't have stayed open and took so long to get any scans/feats for Beast.

And really, the stuff that has been displayed isn't out of Cap's range.

DTM
Not knowing QS can now run lightspeed means I dont know what Im talking about, even though about 90% of those speaking on this thread seem to agree with who Im supporting here?

Chill out man, no need to be so rude here, these are supposed to be for fun.

Existere
Oh, don't worry.

I'm still having fun.

KingD19
Officially, Beast is stronger than Cap. In comics, Beast should be stronger than Cap. But it's Captain America. Because that's his name, he gets to do stuff that other people who are billed in the same range as him and sometimes slightly higher aren't capable of. Kinda like Batman hurting Wonder Woman or Darkseid with a kick just because he's Batman.

In a forum fight/contest though, all PIS/CIS/Wank aside, Beast is stronger.

namorsubby
Originally posted by CosmicComet
No, moron, the weight is very easily ball-parked by a calculation based on the material and apparent size of the object.

Not to mention, simple referencing of real life objects whose weights are known.

Since the statue's weight isn't explicitly told to us, we are completely given free reign to come to a conclusion of its weight.

Cap is definitely not a 2 tonner. He's definitely not a 1 tonner either. That's far too weak.

1-2 tons represents the weight range of a small to large sized 4 door car.

And Cap's feats are far above handling things as light as cars. Like, you know, the statue ripping feat I posted already.
Does it bother you, that Cap lives up his physical hype on the forums so thoroughly, with actual feats--unlike some other dude? I know it does. And I enjoy your whining. smile

Tell me what lead you to conclude that that statue weighed between 6-7 tons. Oh yeah, your raging cap boner.

you couldn't come close to providing anything concrete to support that made up estimation. If you guys are simply going to make up numbers as high as you desire for caps strengh feats then he's as strong as youre imagination dictates.

The fact is there is nothing legit to suggest cap could lift 2000lbs over his head, much less double that.

KingD19
Even if that statue was solid all the way through. It had to be light enough for a group of men to move into position. It might have weighed a ton or two, but it's not incredibly heavy. It's a small statue.

namorsubby
Beast can and has easily lifted and thrown cars. He is definitely stronger then cap. Which makes perfect sense seeing as hes ranked higher in strength.

Hulkbuster1
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj94/Lone_Wolf_album/batman_12.jpg

Who are you talking about here?

laughing You sure showed him Dad yes

red sabre
Originally posted by namorsubby
Even if youre the peak of human potential strengh wise that does not make you super humanly strong. If it is within human potential it is not beyond human capability you moron. Super human strength is.

When you make up fake imaginary weight measurements for "your" feats you can make whoever youre siding with seem as strong as you want. However cap is no where near any of those ridiculous made up numbers strengh wise.

Please take the time to learn about characters you include in threads. Beast is not simply stated at a higher level of strengh, but he is actually stronger. His lowest level of 2 tons is higher than cap alone. He's been upgraded several times. No one would have to spoon feed you feats to prove his general strength level if you actually knew the character. But for good measure, look at what some of the feats these nice people have mentioned within this thread.

you dumbass why do you keep repeating Cap is peak human? who said he is peak human? your wiki collection did? your ignorance is just ignorant Lol, i dont care what some 30 20 year old bio say i care about feats and how writers constantly portraying the character and Cap by feats is a super human so i dont give a **** where you came from with the peak human crap but going by feats Cap is a legit super human

blah blah blah beast had upgrades blah blah blah, i will repeat it again specially for special people like yourself, do you have feats for beast to suggest he is indeed stronger than Cap by strength? because as of right now all i heard is " he is stronger because he is super human"

me: can someone please show me feats of beast being superior to Cap in strength?
namorsnubby : **** you i aint showing you nothing beast is super human and cap is peak human thats it
me: but if we look at feats and consistant portrayel Cap is Super Human and beast didnt present any feats that i am aware off that put him above cap
namorsnubby: i said i dont give a crap beast is super human and cap isnt i dont need to prove anything

red sabre
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime


nice feats but how do you know to what degree beast helped them? maybe they did together 99% and beast only added the 1% that needed to overpower those bars?

beast punching someone out is a greater strength feat than Cap has? really? do i need to show who Cap can take out in a fighting? Lol do i need to show captain america owning beast himself in a fight? lets stick to strength feats and not fighting feats

beast in the beginning of his career was suppose to be the powerhouse of the x men team however marvel droped that idea very fast, so even if beast got some feats that i can count on 1 hand that show me being a powerhouse i still think its invalid to use them since it was a different and long time ago portrayel of the character, beast those days is not even half of what he was during that very very very short run

Batroc
http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b462/BatrocBeast/Beast/th_X-Men_-_Spider-Man_001_009.jpg

http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b462/BatrocBeast/Beast/th_TheBeast3-22.jpg

http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b462/BatrocBeast/Beast/th_Defenders106-18.jpg

http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b462/BatrocBeast/Beast/th_10-2.jpg

http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b462/BatrocBeast/Beast/th_X-Men009_05-1.jpg

red sabre
Originally posted by DTM
Yes, Im referring to canon stories. I actually never thought Beast having superhuman strength, or Cap having peak human strength, was ever in question. I mean, this thread is kinda like whos faster, Flash or Quicksilver. One can run at lightspeeds, the other like Mach10, this isnt a hard topic to discuss really.

then you wont have any problem proving it right? go ahead then

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by red sabre
nice feats but how do you know to what degree beast helped them? maybe they did together 99% and beast only added the 1% that needed to overpower those bars?

beast punching someone out is a greater strength feat than Cap has? really? do i need to show who Cap can take out in a fighting? Lol do i need to show captain america owning beast himself in a fight? lets stick to strength feats and not fighting feats

beast in the beginning of his career was suppose to be the powerhouse of the x men team however marvel droped that idea very fast, so even if beast got some feats that i can count on 1 hand that show me being a powerhouse i still think its invalid to use them since it was a different and long time ago portrayel of the character, beast those days is not even half of what he was during that very very very short run

Do you have any idea who Frenzy is?

OneDumbG0
Beast is stronger.

red sabre
Originally posted by Batroc
http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b462/BatrocBeast/Beast/th_X-Men_-_Spider-Man_001_009.jpg

http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b462/BatrocBeast/Beast/th_TheBeast3-22.jpg

http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b462/BatrocBeast/Beast/th_Defenders106-18.jpg

http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b462/BatrocBeast/Beast/th_10-2.jpg

http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b462/BatrocBeast/Beast/th_X-Men009_05-1.jpg

wow those are some feats i didnt see, and its not like 1 or 2 feats and its not even from the same era, great job man judging by those feats beast is indeed physically stronger than Captain america case closed thumb up

CosmicComet
Originally posted by namorsubby
Tell me what lead you to conclude that that statue weighed between 6-7 tons. Oh yeah, your raging cap boner.

you couldn't come close to providing anything concrete to support that made up estimation. If you guys are simply going to make up numbers as high as you desire for caps strengh feats then he's as strong as youre imagination dictates.

The fact is there is nothing legit to suggest cap could lift 2000lbs over his head, much less double that.

Very simple.
http://www.matweb.com/tools/weightcalculator.aspx
The body of the eagle statue has a cross section closest to a tube shape. Pick circle as the cross section (not circular tube because its for hollow objects, which tubes are since things pass through them).
Then put 2.8 g/cc as the density, which is equivalent to granite. Then put the length of the circle at 12 feet, (which is roughly how tall the statue is), and then put the diameter at 3 feet (which is roughly how wide it is around). And then hit calculate. You'll get a figure of 14829.451 pounds...which is 7.4 tons. smile
Granted the statue's width around isn't constant throughout its whole height, but its also not accounting for the fact that I'm not calculating the weight of the wings too.

Also, see this example?
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/28/atheists-sue-florida-county-to-remove-ten-commandments-monument/
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/wtsp_ten_commandments_120528a-615x345.jpg
That 5 foot tall statue of the ten commandments is stated at 6 tons as per the article.


And he can't lift 2000 lbs over his head? Why the hell not? A 16 foot Great White would weigh 2000 lbs. You're telling me that 12 foot + statue weighs less than a fleshy animal with no bony skeleton? Not to mention, he didn't just walk with it, he ripped the entire base of it out of the ground, which makes the feat even more impressive outside the mere weight of the statue, and more impressive than simply lifting it over his head.

Don't be upset because I can quantify strength feats on my own. I'm not so ignorant as to be lost without a writer holding my hand and telling me what something is--like you apparently are demonstrating. smile

Cap is an EASY multi-tonner---by FEATS.

BUSTER1
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Very simple.
http://www.matweb.com/tools/weightcalculator.aspx
The body of the eagle statue has a cross section closest to a tube shape. Pick circle as the cross section (not circular tube because its for hollow objects, which tubes are since things pass through them).
Then put 2.8 g/cc as the density, which is equivalent to granite. Then put the length of the circle at 12 feet, (which is roughly how tall the statue is), and then put the diameter at 3 feet (which is roughly how wide it is around). And then hit calculate. You'll get a figure of 14829.451 pounds...which is 7.4 tons. smile
Granted the statue's width around isn't constant throughout its whole height, but its also not accounting for the fact that I'm not calculating the weight of the wings too.

Also, see this example?
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/28/atheists-sue-florida-county-to-remove-ten-commandments-monument/
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/wtsp_ten_commandments_120528a-615x345.jpg
That 5 foot tall statue of the ten commandments is stated at 6 tons as per the article.


And he can't lift 2000 lbs over his head? Why the hell not? A 16 foot Great White would weigh 2000 lbs. You're telling me that 12 foot + statue weighs less than a fleshy animal with no bony skeleton? Not to mention, he didn't just walk with it, he ripped the entire base of it out of the ground, which makes the feat even more impressive outside the mere weight of the statue, and more impressive than simply lifting it over his head.

Don't be upset because I can quantify strength feats on my own. I'm not so ignorant as to be lost without a writer holding my hand and telling me what something is--like you apparently are demonstrating. smile

Cap is an EASY multi-tonner---by FEATS.

So how strong do you rate Cap as being. Would you rate him as high as 10 ton?

CosmicComet
Yes.

the ninjak
Beast is surely stronger.

namorsubby
Captain America is no where near 10 class. Anyone who believes so is no less than retarded.

Beast strength is sufficient enough to easily lift and throw cars. He is stronger than cap.

quanchi112
Originally posted by namorsubby
Captain America is no where near 10 class. Anyone who believes so is no less than retarded.

Beast strength is sufficient enough to easily lift and throw cars. He is stronger than cap. Why don't you try to support your position as opposed to bashing all those who disagree with your opinion.

namorsubby
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Very simple.
http://www.matweb.com/tools/weightcalculator.aspx
The body of the eagle statue has a cross section closest to a tube shape. Pick circle as the cross section (not circular tube because its for hollow objects, which tubes are since things pass through them).
Then put 2.8 g/cc as the density, which is equivalent to granite. Then put the length of the circle at 12 feet, (which is roughly how tall the statue is), and then put the diameter at 3 feet (which is roughly how wide it is around). And then hit calculate. You'll get a figure of 14829.451 pounds...which is 7.4 tons. smile
Granted the statue's width around isn't constant throughout its whole height, but its also not accounting for the fact that I'm not calculating the weight of the wings too.

Also, see this example?
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/28/atheists-sue-florida-county-to-remove-ten-commandments-monument/
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/wtsp_ten_commandments_120528a-615x345.jpg
That 5 foot tall statue of the ten commandments is stated at 6 tons as per the article.


And he can't lift 2000 lbs over his head? Why the hell not? A 16 foot Great White would weigh 2000 lbs. You're telling me that 12 foot + statue weighs less than a fleshy animal with no bony skeleton? Not to mention, he didn't just walk with it, he ripped the entire base of it out of the ground, which makes the feat even more impressive outside the mere weight of the statue, and more impressive than simply lifting it over his head.

Don't be upset because I can quantify strength feats on my own. I'm not so ignorant as to be lost without a writer holding my hand and telling me what something is--like you apparently are demonstrating. smile

Cap is an EASY multi-tonner---by FEATS.

Your height, width, material, and density are all made up based on you looking an object in a comic book and coming up with whatever estimation you see fit. You are surely out of your mind if you think cap is a multi-tonner much less class 10. Do you even read cap comics? When the hell has he ever lifted something 20,000lbs over his head? You have to be smoking.

namorsubby
Originally posted by quanchi112
Why don't you try to support your position as opposed to bashing all those who disagree with your opinion. The notion that someone needs to actually disprove cap being class 10 is even more idiotic than the notion that cap is class 10.

quanchi112
Originally posted by namorsubby
The notion that someone needs to actually disprove cap being class 10 is even more idiotic than the notion that cap is class 10. If it's so easy to do then do it. You really don't even fathom what debating is yet have the nerve to insult those with a different opinion than yours.

Existere
Really though - when you have Quan jumping in on an exchange to call you out on your bullshit, you gotta quit or troll harder.

I definitely don't think Cap is class 10, and I'm not really sure what number I'd peg for his strength level. At least Comet though, who's making that assertion, is backing up what he thinks with pretty clear argumentation.

Namorsubby responds with tripe about not being required to back up anything ever.

GTFO.

namorsubby
Do what? Disprove that cap is a 10 tonner? Are you serious? Do you want me to simply post every cap appearance in which he had never lifted anything that weighed 20,000lbs? I'm not the imbecile claiming cap is class 10. Why dont you or whoever else believes actually show something to suggest so? Oh wait, you can't because theres absolutely nothing to suggest cap is any where near that level strength wise. Not in feats, not in rankings, nowhere but in the imagination of caps fondest admirers.

Originally posted by Existere
Really though - when you have Quan jumping in on an exchange to call you out on your bullshit, you gotta quit or troll harder.

I definitely don't think Cap is class 10, and I'm not really sure what number I'd peg for his strength level. At least Comet though, who's making that assertion, is backing up what he thinks with pretty clear argumentation.

Namorsubby responds with tripe about not being required to back up anything ever.

GTFO.

Hes backing up that cap is class 10? Is there something in the air around here?

quanchi112
Originally posted by namorsubby
Do what? Disprove that cap is a 10 tonner? Are you serious? Do you want me yo comply post every cap appearance in which he had never lifted anything that weighed 20,000lbs? I'm not the imbecile claiming cap is class 10. Why dont you or whoever else believes actually show something to suggest so? Oh wait, you can't because theres absolutely nothing to suggest cap is any where near that level strength wise. Not in feats, not in rankings, nowhere but in the imagination of caps fondest admirers. You're bashing those who disagree with you. If it's not the norm then it shouldn't be a hard case to prove. If you can't prove it then kindly disappear into the shadows.

If debating was what you defined as debating kmc wouldn't have lasted a summer.

namorsubby
If someone claims spider-man is class 100, or daredevil is class 15, how exactly do you go about disproving that? Why would you even feel the need to something so obviously incorrect? You want me to show cap never lifting 20,00lbs?

Existere
Originally posted by namorsubby
If someone claims spider-man is class 100, or daredevil is class 15, how exactly do you go about disproving that? Why would you even feel the need to something so obviously incorrect? You want me to show cap never lifting 20,00lbs? How tall do you think that statue was?

How wide?

Give your best estimate.

Glorificus
I've always thought of Captain America as Class 5-ish or so.

Human Beast was beyond that.

Blue ape beast was much stronger than Human Beast.

Blue cat beast is even stronger than Blue ape Beast.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by namorsubby
Your height, width, material, and density are all made up based on you looking an object in a comic book and coming up with whatever estimation you see fit. You are surely out of your mind if you think cap is a multi-tonner much less class 10. Do you even read cap comics? When the hell has he ever lifted something 20,000lbs over his head? You have to be smoking.

Lol.

So you're argument is that your admitted ignorance of the actual magnitude of a feat means you get to dictate the level of the feat?

You do realize how f*cking backwards that is, yes?

Not only this, you are admitting to taking a blind eye to very easily discernible scale of the object at hand, with the argument that somehow figures are being 'made up' despite a clear cut figure with a known size that's available as a reference being within the frame (Captain America).

You won't accept the statue as being multi-ton, let alone over 7 tons as a I said, but you DO realize just how massively different the actual figures for the statue would have to be from my guesstimations in order for the statue to be a more acceptable figure to you (guessing 1000 lbs is the max you are willing to concede), right? The statue would be so immensely smaller so as not to even be remotely confusable to be anywhere near the same size it is now.

Not only did I offer you a calculation, but I offered you a real life example of a 'comparable scale' object weighing 6 tons.

The onus is on you to prove the statue is less than multi-ton, let alone less than ONE ton.

And oh please. The only reason who doesn't read Captain America comics is you. Otherwise, you wouldn't be so fixated on a dumb ass, misleading handbook type of designation as 'peak human' for him. But then again, maybe you simply don't want to believe the facts, so continue to cling to that woefully incorrect terminology.

I mean, the fact that you even have to be convinced that a person who can do things like rip off the arms of robots larger than him, bust through steel doors while weakened, throw his shield so strongly that it has enough speed to catch up to a launched ICBM, hold up large chunks of buildings and rip up statues that are about twice as tall, twice as deep, and significantly wider off of their base is easier to compare to legit superhumans (like Wolverine or Spiderman) than a mere 'peak human', is telling enough of your agenda.

Cap is a superhuman multi-tonner, inarguable. Handling 2000 lbs+ handily is nothing he hasn't been doing his whole career.

namorsubby
His strength feats do not compare to spider-man's. He is actually class 10+.

Giving that I do not know the material, height, width, volume, or density(could be hollow) of the object, I don't attempt to draw a rough estimate based on nothing. I do however know that caps strength range is no where near within the 6-7 ton range. Therefore, I conclude that the object is not 6-7 tons. This is called logic.

Beast lifts and throws cars. Beast is ranked higher in strength. Beast is stronger

Existere
To be fair, we don't know how strong you have to be to throw a car.

I mean, we don't attempt to draw rough estimates of a feat like that. We don't know the material, height, width, volume or density of the car.

I assume the car that Beast threw was inflatable. mmm

KingD19
Well the smallest cars are on average of maybe 1-2 tons, sometimes 3 if they're like full size sedans. So you have to at least have the strength to lift that much weight over your head, and then even more strength to throw it any distance at all.

I consider it comparable to bench pressing or overhead pressing. A guy may be able to lift 300lbs over his head, but tossing it any significant distance requires a lot more strength than just lifting it. I'm not a math and physics major like most of these other guys apparently though.

DTM
Marvel in numerous bios has stated that Cap was capable of lifting 800 lbs, personally Id go closer to 1000 - 1200 pounds myself, which to me fits right in to his Peak Human physique ideal (which is the basis for What Cap Is) than him being Class 5 - 10 in strength.

red sabre
are people still argue with this nuthead namorsnubby? no matter what people bring him his answer will always be " but but i read on wikipedia that Cap is peak human" and therefor no matter what feats of Cap you show him that are canon and happened more than once his answer will still be the same

as the statue feat, namorsnubby tell me something are you that dumb and mentally chanllenged that you need every single thing to be stated for you on panel? you need every weight to be stated for you? do you really need to see superman lift a car and the narration state in a buble "car weight 2 tons", or spider-man lift some chunk of building and narration state "concrete chunk 1 ton", seriously you dumb?

when someone lift a car how do we know the weight of that car? we dont have the size weight right? we can just speculate the weight, we dont know the matirial that car is made of right? it could be an aluminium car who knows right? was there an engine inside that car? maybe the cops were fixing the car and they took out all the parts inside of that car? and when beast lifted that chunk of concrete we dont know the exact weight of that dont we? you see i could be an A hole like you and go strawman but i dont because thats just retarded and basically trolling

that statue was much taller wider and overall bigger than cap, we all agree that statue was made out of stone right? doesnt matter concrete or any other type of stone, when cap ripped it out of the ground we could see it wasnt hollow inside right? therefor our healthy logic and overall physics knowledge can easily tell us it weighted several tons, how much exactly? i dont know but it was indeed more than 2 tons without a doubt, unless you are a complete idiot of course

namorsubby
You guys cannot simply state whatever number you want not based in fact and then proclaim that cap all of a sudden is able to lift 6 or 7 tons. It doesn't add up. It contradicts his general strength level according to feats, rankings, and instances where numbers are actually known. ***** all you want, but the fact is cap has never been a multi-tonner according to feats or anything else.

red sabre
Originally posted by namorsubby
. It contradicts his general strength level according to feats.

but the feats ARE the ones who claim Cap is a multi toner

you need every single weight to be stated by the narration just because you are mentally challenged?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by KingD19
Well the smallest cars are on average of maybe 1-2 tons, sometimes 3 if they're like full size sedans. So you have to at least have the strength to lift that much weight over your head, and then even more strength to throw it any distance at all.

Wasn't Beast amped in that instance?

KingD19
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wasn't Beast amped in that instance?

I really don't know. Just putting my 2 cents in on what I saw. Would you consider his current strength level capable of pulling that off?

namorsubby
Originally posted by red sabre
but the feats ARE the ones who claim Cap is a multi toner

you need every single weight to be stated by the narration just because you are mentally challenged?

No, the numbers you guys artificially attached to these feats claim that. your so called estimations are much higher than any actual number given in any of caps strength feats or rankings. As well as any quantifiable testament to caps strengh. Why do you think that is? Don't you think that if all these numbers you guys came up with were any where near reasonable that they'd be reflected in at least one quantifiable, precise, feat? If this was how strong he was truly potrayed throughout his comic history thered be something to suggest besides numbers some kmc posters conjured up.

red sabre
Originally posted by namorsubby
No, the numbers you guys artificially attached to these feats claim that. your so called estimations are much higher than any actual number given in any of caps strength feats or rankings. As well as any quantifiable testament to caps strengh. Why do you think that is? Don't you think that if all these numbers you guys came up with were any where near reasonable that they'd be reflected in at least one quantifiable, precise, feat? If this was how strong he was truly potrayed throughout his comic history thered be something to suggest besides numbers some kmc posters conjured up.

as i already pointed out while specific numbers perhaps cannot be given we still are able to messure the range of the feat, are you suggesting to just ignore the feat just because no specific number was given? so now we should just ignore all strength feats ever given that doesnt have a clear number describing the weight? just shut up

the funniest thing is your double standard, when debating for slade you mentioned some hollow sarcofag that brok to pieces and yet you claimed it was a 3 ton feat, now we have a statue bigger than the sarcofag, made out of stone and not hollow and yet you suddenly ignore the feat and trying to lowball the feat ignoring it was a multiple ton feat

you sir are stupid and dont deserve to be called sir in the first place

CosmicComet
Originally posted by namorsubby
His strength feats do not compare to spider-man's. He is actually class 10+.

I said his strength feats are easier to compare to a bonafide Superhuman like Spiderman, than a Peak Human (Batman for instance).

And this is absolutely true. Cap is the same guy who has held up a chunk of a skyscraper. Lol @ that not being a Spiderman comparable feat. Or ripping a multi-ton statue out of the ground. Or ripping an 8 to maybe 10 foot tall robot's arm off. Or throwing his shield with enough force to catch up to a launched ICBM.

That's not to say I think Cap is at Spiderman's level of strength however. Just that he's closer to Spiderman than Batman.


You know its made of rock. And even if it were made of something as implausible as coal (which is very light, and has a density of ~1.2 g/cc, meaning its barely any denser than our own bodies) the statue would STILL weigh 3 tons. Oh hey, turns out a large statue made of rock is going to way in the category of tons regardless. Which of course is obvious to anyone who isn't an idiot. After all, even something as hollow and light as a car can weigh a ton.



Sure you do. Unless you're admitting to being blind? Which would not surprise me in the least bit, on top of everything else you are.
You know the height, width, and depth, because Cap is there as a reference, and you know that he's significantly smaller in all regards there. The exact dimensions aren't even important here, because as I said, your estimations for the dimensions would have to be VASTLY different than mine in order to get the weight down to 1000 lbs or so.


Also, I know you aren't particularly bright, but listing off volume in order to sound smart, is just being redundant. After all, volume is just the totality of the three dimensions themselves. smile


Hah. Except we see the statue breaking apart and its not hollow. It's solid.

And even if I lowballed it to the the point of being completely ridiculous and I gave it a density equal to a HUMAN body. (which is just 1.01 g/cc), it would STILL weigh ~2.7 tons. laughing out loud

You're phucked anyway you try to split this.



Oh, but it certainly isn't based on nothing. It's based on a *gasp* on-panel FEAT.

You know nothing, and because you are ignorant of plausible calculation and comparison methods (this is why I gave you a picture of something to compare with that was 6 tons, to dumb things down), you conclude its not 6-7 tons. That is the very opposite of logic. That is, as I said, admitted ignorance. Regardless, the notion of it being over 7 tons isn't even IMPORTANT. The important issue here, is that the statue itself is inexorably multi-ton no matter how you slice it. No matter how you try to break it down, that statue is going to be multi-ton--so at least 2 tons. And that, is something you will not be able to bring up an argument against, just like anything else.

You also know shit about Cap's strength range. You will just keep repeating some tired handbook refrain of peak human and ignore the actual superhuman feats--let alone the fact that WRITERS have commented on this shit and denied the idea that Captain America is just a peak human. Oh no. That's not what he was ever meant to be. He was meant to be a...what's the word? Oh yeah, 'Super' Soldier. That's right.
Brubaker, has mentioned that very thing, and nixed the idea that Captain America is equivalent to 'Batman with a shield'. He's not. He's super human, not something that can be achieved with training, which is what a peak human is.




Beast is irrelevant to my posts here. I never argued against the notion of Beast being stronger. Either way, throwing a ~1 ton car is superior to ripping a multi-ton statue out of the ground? I don't believe so--it depends on how far the car is thrown.

Not to mention, Cap has tossed Terrax before. Who weighs just about 2,800 lbs--which is on the same scale as a car. smile

namorsubby
The simple fact is that cap is no where near class 10 because he had never lifted anything close to 20000lbs over his head. The numbers you guys made up are not supported by anything concrete in comics or elsewhere. Cap is not even class 2. Any idiot can simply attach a number to a feat they thought up themselves and try to rewrite a characters history. Then you turn around and try to insult my intelligence. Morons

red sabre
Originally posted by namorsubby
The simple fact is that cap is no where near class 10 because he had never lifted anything close to 20000lbs over his head. The numbers you guys made up are not supported by anything concrete in comics or elsewhere. Cap is not even class 2. Any idiot can simply attach a number to a feat they thought up themselves and try to rewrite a characters history. Then you turn around and try to insult my intelligence. Morons

thats comming from a guy that was claiming some hollow sarcofag weights 3 ton without any reason behind it? the numbers we are giving are based on minimal speculations that were based on simple logic and physics knowledge, cap peaking up a concrete chank in his own size and throw them to one shot a freakin building is easily a ton feat

cap dragging a supply trcuk that minimaly weighted 15 tons across the desert while the wheels couldnt help because they were stuck in the sand and therefor it was even heavier is indeed a several ton strength feat because while not lifting it draging 15+ tons is obviously a good indication to the strength level

closing by brute strength silo doors that just by the look of it are easily weighting tons on top of tons

lifting and tearing out of the place a stone statue that is by far bigger and wider than him and cary it on his back is easily above 2 tons feat

thats the difference between someone who use logic to analyze things and someone that demands the comics to clear every single thing for him, i can do so as well and just claim prove the cars thrown at people are full weight cars because we dont know if there are engines inside those cars or any other parts, thats how dumb your so called logic sounds

CosmicComet
I'm really curious to know just exactly what the guy considers to be a 2-ton feat at bare minimum.

thanos-prime
Beast is stronger.

JakeTheBank
Bios are shit. For all the talk of Cap being "peak human" over "superhuman", his actual feats crap on that notion. Brubaker being more overt about it helps, but really, he's been superhuman according to feats for decades.

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