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OK, I'm in this argument with someone on another site over whether Thanos could beat Goku in a fight. Could he? Please give me feedback.

Um, yeah, he could.

Goku at what level?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Um, yeah, he could.

How?

Punching him should work.

Couldn't Thanos shrug off SS's attacks even BEFORE he became immortal?

thanos

Mind Rape.

Thanos destroys Goku. there's just nothing Goku has that can do anything against Thanos.

If its the Thanos that'll be in the next Thor film than Goku could win.

Otherwise, god no.

Any other reasons why Thanos could beat Goku?

cuz of the "SOLAR FLARE"

Here are his arguments on why Goku could beat Thanos:

1) GT is canon.
2) Thanos may be smarter in general, but Goku is a "fighting genius." They ain't doing rocket science so fighting and all aspects thereof are all that matters.
3) Thanos can't die so obviously he can't lose and is why he survives against the likes of Odin and Silver Surfer. So if dirty tricks like "not dying" are okay, Goku can use his greatest weapon; the Dragon Balls. Yeah, Thanos just lost. Hell, he could just destroy the current dimension and Instant Transmission to safety. Oh, how about fusing with Vegeta, becoming untouchable?

Yeah. It's in your favor not to go against my proposed Rules of Fairness, because Goku has the edge 10/10. Goku wins either way bro.

Sorry for the multi-messaging, using PS3 browser ATM.

Anyway, as for The Silver Surfer (TSS), he isn't as fast as Goku, nor as powerful offensively or defensively...but I gotta say, he's damn close in most regards, and is far more versatile. Thing is, Goku can move instantaneously. You don't get faster, you can only match it. And TSS can't.

Power is in Goku's favor, since he's capable of, as I stated, capable of universal destruction. Defense is in his favor because he can TAKE universe-destroying levels of attack and survive. Hell, weak ass Vegito pushed through a universe-breaker with ONE. BARE. FIST.

TSS's perception could be dangerous though, as he may be able to see the future, how Goku will strike. Question is can he prevent what he sees? I doubt it.


I read from Marvel's site that he was cursed with the inability to die by Death. If he can die, generally being caught in a force powerful enough to destroy the universal several times over does the trick. If it doesn't, a volley of faster than light attacks of that calibur taken point blank range by an Instant Transmission does.

Tell me, what's the strongest attack he's taken and survived in a state he can fight in? Do try to significantly trump a barrage of max speed, several-fold universe-annihilating attacks. Do try.
Your thinking is linear and closed; you read too much into his use of that form. Goku didn't have to be SSj4, he simply needed an adult body.

Way back, even before Majin Buu appeared, Goku could EASILY fly and train with 100 tons on his body in SSj1. By time Goku lifted that city, he was on a completely different level, so a city, mathematically speaking, is not heavy for Goku.

You should try thinking outside the box when perceiving a character or his actions, just FYI.

As you can see, he's a blind fanboy.

Originally posted by VG_Addict
1) GT is canon. Stopped reading.

If Goku were in Marvel, he'd be somewhere above a Celestial and below The Living Tribunal. Goku > Thanos 24/7.

Originally posted by Robtard
If Goku were in Marvel, he'd be somewhere above a Celestial and below The Living Tribunal. Goku > Thanos 24/7.

Not sure if trolling or just plain stupid.

Originally posted by VG_Addict
Not sure if trolling or just plain stupid.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120407183414/icarly/images/9/92/Not-sure-if-trolling-or-just-plain-stupid.png

I thought Badabing banned all Thanos related battles.

Jokes aside, are these battles even allowed in this forum?

Not that I disagree, but can anyone give a good in-depth reason for why Thanos can beat Goku?

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Not that I disagree, but can anyone give a good in-depth reason for why Thanos can beat Goku?
From my experience it really depends on the author whether or not he'd be able to defeat Thanos.

Originally posted by BloodRain
If its the Thanos that'll be in the next Thor film than Goku could win.

Otherwise, god no.

How would you know the feats of a film version of a character who has only stood and smiled at the screen.

His only feat was lifting the sides of his mouth

Originally posted by the ninjak
How would you know the feats of a film version of a character who has only stood and smiled at the screen.

Shot in the dark. If MovieThanos is to ComicThanos what MovieThor is to ComicThor, its a safe guess that he wont be that amazing.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Shot in the dark. If MovieThanos is to ComicThanos what MovieThor is to ComicThor, its a safe guess that he wont be that amazing.

We don't know that. The comic Avengers were pretty lackluster in their early appearances. And as the years went by they became stronger.

I have seen storyboards stating that Ironman is about to become immensly stronger in Ironman III. Who's to say the others won't evolve as well?

I agree with you that current film versions of Batman and Marvel heroes are weaksauce compared to current comic canon, but that has no baring on debating movie Thanos.

Mm they can get stronger, probably will too, wont be by much.

Currently Hulk and Thor would be lucky to contend with EoS DB Goku. To match your generic DBZ character Thanos would need to be massively faster and a planetary threat.

Its highly unlikely we'll see a planet buster in a movie that only has the one planet.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Its highly unlikely we'll see a planet buster in a movie that only has the one planet.

Well Thanos had a throne on a planetoid. In outer space. Plus the Infinite Gauntlet was in Thor as well as the Mind Gem in Avengers.

Thanos + Infinite Gauntlet = God powers in a potentential future Marvel flick so I see planets being turned into jelly.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Um, yeah, he could.

Quite easily too.

Goku isn't that powerful..there's no way he can beat Thanos..

this is fair battle right? No IG and No Dragon balls

Thanos only slightly faster than fastest human
thats Goku when he's a kid

Thanos can't handle small e.quakes
300x gravity no problem for Goku

Thanos got kicked in the face by spidey and almost fell
Spidey can't catch bullets, destroy moon like Roshi
Roshi PL is 139, that makes Spidey around 100 or less
Base Goku PL at least 10,000,000

If Goku's kick can't break Thanos neck, then Thanos is a pingpong ball

Originally posted by mindmyenglish
this is fair battle right? No IG and No Dragon balls

Thanos only slightly faster than fastest human
thats Goku when he's a kid

Thanos can't handle small e.quakes
300x gravity no problem for Goku

Thanos got kicked in the face by spidey and almost fell
Spidey can't catch bullets, destroy moon like Roshi
Roshi PL is 139, that makes Spidey around 100 or less
Base Goku PL at least 10,000,000

If Goku's kick can't break Thanos neck, then Thanos is a pingpong ball http://www.halforums.com/xenforo/attachments/c8a-gif.4305/

Goku does have the superior speed feats, but Thanos can mind-rape which should take less than a second. Goku better do a massive amount of damage during that time.

Thanos has tagged the Silver ****ing Surfer consistently.

Tagging Goku will be easy.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Thanos has tagged the Silver ****ing Surfer consistently.

Tagging Goku will be easy.

Surfer sucks at close combat and Goku sort of has precog with ki reading. I suppose the speed match -which is the only point in which Goki can actually defend himself here- really hangs on how do you expect Thanos to deal with him. Goku is nowhere near the Runner nor Surfer at top speed, but Thanos hasn't fought many speedesters explicitly using their speed -at least not that I remember right now-, he has been tagged by the likes of Wolverine and Gamora -enhanced speed, but still nowhere near Goku-. So it really depends in how much of a benefit of doubt we give Thanos, I'd argue that he has enough reflexes to use TP and quickly incapacitate Goku, because the saiyan must be just a few degrees of super sonic anyways.

Wolverine and Gamora tag everyone.

Silver Surfer has been tagged and beaten by mexicans with hammers.

Just because a character has super-speed doesn't mean that he'll constantly utilize it, Marvel comics are not written the same way as Dragon Ball. Thanos is no speedster.

Originally posted by Bentley
Goku does have the superior speed feats, but Thanos can mind-rape which should take less than a second.
What? He has never done that from what I can recall, not without the Mind gem. That would've served as a great strategy against the Champion though.

Recently I've reread a few miniseries featuring Thanos, and I am doubting his ability to take on Goku, even after his reincarnation. The main issue being speed.

Thanos telepathically shut down the Maker, a sort of aspect of the Beyonder who could replicate the Big Crunch.

The Maker was limited by being in human form and by being quite mentally unstable. And IIRC, she KOed Thanos during their initial encounter.

Beyond that, Thanos' TP would wreak havoc on Goku, and given the sheer amount of time it'd take for him to charge any sort of ki attack that would even begin to do damage to Thanos, I don't see much that Goku could do to even harm the Titan in a straight up fight.

Thanos. Every time.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Thanos telepathically shut down the Maker,
No. He lobotomized her with a heat vision attack as you can tell from the smoking dot on her forehead.

http://i.imgur.com/esPges.jpg

Goku's energy projection would be able to hurt Thanos. Not so much with kicks or punches though. But between shields and mind rape it's goku's match to lose. Even if we take those factors away Thanos doesn't exactly have weak energy projection himself. And given the time it takes for Goku to get off his kamehameha wave or other big moves I'd bet on Thanos beating him to the punch. Still Goku would have a chance at dealing some good damage if he teleported infront of Thanos' face right before letting out the wave.

of course those thoughts don't really matter since Goku would be a vegetable sooner than later.

Goku stomps 10/10

Forgot to add...Black hair Goku would win this.

Originally posted by Astner
What? He has never done that from what I can recall, not without the Mind gem. That would've served as a great strategy against the Champion though.

He did fought in a mental battle against the Goddess, beat the Maker with a mind blast and recently mind-controlled Hulk.

Thanos would be a statue to someone like Goku before he even got the chance to throw off a mind attack. Goku would have all the time in the world to test his power on Thanos.

He's not that strong though. at black hair levels he wasn't even able to move his limbs with 10 tons on each one. At those levels he'd be lucky for Thanos to even feel a punch.

Originally posted by Bentley
He did fought in a mental battle against the Goddess,
Actually Thanos' projection was spiritual, the mental projection was by Xavier.

http://i.imgur.com/I4rqms.jpg

Originally posted by Bentley
beat the Maker with a mind blast and recently mind-controlled Hulk.
I already addressed this, here.

Now for any future feat reference you'll make, I'll expect a scan.

Originally posted by BloodRain
If its the Thanos that'll be in the next Thor film than Goku could win.
.

Link??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugqguY96kTM

After Credit scene in the Avengers

Originally posted by Kazenji
Link??
To the clip? The part about him being in Thor 2 is just an assumption going around online.

Edit: Samurai.. >[

:P

14 minutes too late

..wow, I'm slipping. O_o

I love how Thanos appearing at the end of a movie makes people think that it's him we're using in battle, despite the fact that he's not canon and that he doesn't have any feats.

Goku smashes Thanos, no lube no grease. You have to give Thanos the Infinity Gauntlet for him to stand a chance and even then Goku could snatch it off his hand before he could react.

Originally posted by Astner
Actually Thanos' projection was spiritual, the mental projection was by Xavier.

http://i.imgur.com/I4rqms.jpg


I already addressed this, here.

Now for any future feat reference you'll make, I'll expect a scan.

There is no point in asking for a scan though, you don't seem like a receptive audience at this point in time.

Originally posted by Bentley
There is no point in asking for a scan though,
I wasn't asking for a scan. What I did ask was that you'd provide scans for future references you'd make. Because I've already addressed and refuted two of your claims, and I'm not going to read every comic you find referenced on Wikipedia.

Originally posted by Bentley you don't seem like a receptive audience at this point in time.
An ad hominem attack? You would've done better in conceding.

No ones using his movie self here. It was an example.

Originally posted by Astner
An ad hominem attack? You would've done better in conceding.

Ok, I conceed. If I found you a non receptive audience it was my perception given the sense I inferred for your comment, something entirely subjective; I did use the word "seem", but if you felt offended in anyways I apologize.

w/o ig goku wins, w/ ig thanos wins. Goku posses the power to destroy planets with out the aid of anything thanos can't with out some help. But with IG thanos recreated the universe. Dragon balls are over rated not even capable of killing low level vegeta.

Blowing up a planet doesn't mean you could beat Thanos.

yeah it does, can Thanos destroy a planet? Does he even posses the ability to destroy a planet? think of it this way a sword (Thanos) is sharp and can cut through a lot of thing, a nuke (Goku) can blow up and incinerate anything within it radius. Thus the damage a nuke can cause makes it more powerful than a sword. Just like how Goku can blow up planets make him stronger than Thanos who can't.

Goku fighting Thanos is like bringing a sword to fight a guy with a nuclear bomb.

Originally posted by Samurai100
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugqguY96kTM

After Credit scene in the Avengers

I've seen Avengers and just because they've show that for the after credits scene doesn't mean its for the next Thor movie.

Originally posted by JackSThor
yeah it does, can Thanos destroy a planet? Does he even posses the ability to destroy a planet? think of it this way a sword (Thanos) is sharp and can cut through a lot of thing, a nuke (Goku) can blow up and incinerate anything within it radius. Thus the damage a nuke can cause makes it more powerful than a sword. Just like how Goku can blow up planets make him stronger than Thanos who can't.

Goku fighting Thanos is like bringing a sword to fight a guy with a nuclear bomb.

The analogy would be truer if Thanos's sword could cut through anything and Goku was facing an opponent who is near invulnerable.

it works fine but i will revise it just for you

can Thanos destroy a planet? Does he even posses the ability to destroy a planet? think of it this way a sword (Thanos) is sharp and can cut through anything , a nuke (Goku) can blow up and incinerate anything within it radius. Thus the damage a nuke can cause makes it more powerful than a sword. Just like how Goku can blow up planets make him stronger than Thanos who can't.

Sure he might be near invulnerable but not immortal and have been shown to get knocked out with enough power. I would post a link here but just been told that I need to be more well known before posting link

Therefore being hit with just one kamehameha with enough power to blow up the planet will surely knock out Thanos, then a supercharge spirit bomb finishes the job.

Three things that Goku has over Thanos, range, speed and power.
What Thanos has? near invulnerability, but Goku posses that to so it

Give me a scenario where Goku loses?

Thanos is stronger, tougher, smarter and has uber shields that give Galactus trouble. He also has vast telepathic abilities and since he trained Gamora should be not too far behind Goku in fighting skills.

he still lacks pure power, speed and range. Smart true he knows more like sciency stuff in term of war and fighting tactics let says it's equal.
So goku can;t blast thru his shield ok, although I think the shield is not part of his innate ability, then in true DB fashion when an opponent can;t be blown to smithereens, then blast them to the sun.

How will thanos kill goku if he can;t even touch him?

^Teleporting, time powers, Telekinesis, telepathy, some magic attack, cosmic energy.

Can't Thanos walk through everything the DB verse can fire at him?

Some of those powers where given through IG or is techonology based. We are talking about just pure innate power that Thanos can dish out without side assitance. Becuase with IG will he can pretty much literally own the universe and who can beat that?

Wolverine with jobber aura.

Heck if I know what his non-IG powers are. But being able to tangle with Thor, Hulk and SSurfer, I reckon he'll be fine.

Originally posted by JackSThor
Some of those powers where given through IG or is techonology based. We are talking about just pure innate power that Thanos can dish out without side assitance. Becuase with IG will he can pretty much literally own the universe and who can beat that?

Why are we keeping Thanos from using his standard equipment?

Thanos is virtually immortal to boot.

Arguing Thanos with IG is retarded.

Originally posted by JackSThor
yeah it does, can Thanos destroy a planet? Does he even posses the ability to destroy a planet? think of it this way a sword (Thanos) is sharp and can cut through a lot of thing, a nuke (Goku) can blow up and incinerate anything within it radius. Thus the damage a nuke can cause makes it more powerful than a sword. Just like how Goku can blow up planets make him stronger than Thanos who can't.

Goku fighting Thanos is like bringing a sword to fight a guy with a nuclear bomb.
No, I don't think you understand me. Thanos has survived planet explosions and has beaten people capable of destroying planets.

So yeah. Destroying a planet doesn't mean you can beat Thanos.

Honestly, Goku can't beat many of the people below Thanos, like Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by StyleTime
No, I don't think you understand me. Thanos has survived planet explosions and has beaten people capable of destroying planets.

So yeah. Destroying a planet doesn't mean you can beat Thanos.

Honestly, Goku can't beat many of the people below Thanos, like Silver Surfer.

Thanos has tanked black holes.

Given that he had enough power to blast Galactus across a gotdamned moon with an energy blast, I'd say that Thanos has sufficient power to down Goku. Not sure where the "BUT HE CAN'T DESTROY A PLANET" misconception came from.

Thanos has never tried to destroy a planet. Doesn't mean he couldn't do it. You see Thanos doesn't need to resort to planet busting like the silly DBZ bad guys. He simply beats the shit out of anyone who stands in his way.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/37079/739941-440938_strength5dh3_super_super.jpg

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Thanos has never tried to destroy a planet. Doesn't mean he couldn't do it. You see Thanos doesn't need to resort to planet busting like the silly DBZ bad guys. He simply beats the shit out of anyone who stands in his way.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/37079/739941-440938_strength5dh3_super_super.jpg



He'd very likely mind rape the entire DBZ universe and make it work for him.

Thanos' reflexes and speed are above normal human levels. While not able to compete in this area at the level of speedier, more agile heroes like Spider-Man, Thanos is far faster than a being of his size ( 6'7" in height, 985 lbs of mass. ) should have a right to be.

The looseleaf edition of the HBOTMU states that both his speed and agility are at the "enhanced human" level

Anyway...

and

mindrape? where?

If Thanos has any problem, it will be because of speed. Even if for some reason you decide to ignore Thanos's telepathy he can simply BFR Goku.

Originally posted by Bentley
Even if for some reason you decide to ignore Thanos's telepathy he can simply BFR Goku.
What telepathy?

There:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=12617&pg=5

Its in the respect thread btw.

He also said that Raditz was FTL.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Thanos has tanked black holes.
I know. I just got caught up on the planet busting thing. It's annoying when dbz fans think planet busting is the greatest thing ever. It doesn't even put you above herald level, much less Thanos.

Originally posted by mindmyenglish
Thanos' reflexes and speed are above normal human levels. While not able to compete in this area at the level of speedier, more agile heroes like Spider-Man, Thanos is far faster than a being of his size ( 6'7" in height, 985 lbs of mass. ) should have a right to be.

The looseleaf edition of the HBOTMU states that both his speed and agility are at the "enhanced human" level

Anyway... Originally posted by mindmyenglish
and Originally posted by mindmyenglish
mindrape? where? http://gliyo.com/files/3831d_Successful-troll-Is-Successful.jpg

Originally posted by StyleTime
I know. I just got caught up on the planet busting thing. It's annoying when dbz fans think planet busting is the greatest thing ever. It doesn't even put you above herald level, much less Thanos.

Too bad Goku IS above Herald level and I'm talking about Black hair Goku.

Let's see... Goku's durability is under herald, Goku's versatility is under herald... Yeah, not seeing it.

EoS DB characters are low-herald at the very best.

Originally posted by Bentley
Let's see... Goku's durability is under herald, Goku's versatility is under herald... Yeah, not seeing it.

Goku durability is above Herald, Goku power is above Herald. Goku stomps.

"Typical Herald - level abilities include:

- Able to destroy planets and stars
- Degree of cosmic awareness (ability to perceive the happenings of the universe)
- Usually a good degree of matter/energy manipulation (such as transmutation)
- Faster Than Light speed travel
- Some limited level of Time Travel/Manipulation"



DB has destroying planets.. that is all.

Originally posted by BloodRain
"Typical Herald - level abilities include:

- Able to destroy planets and stars
- Degree of cosmic awareness (ability to perceive the happenings of the universe)
- Usually a good degree of matter/energy manipulation (such as transmutation)
- Faster Than Light speed travel
- Some limited level of Time Travel/Manipulation"



DB has destroying planets.. that is all.

King Ki has shown with what would equate to 'cosmic awareness'.

Namekians have 'Magic Materialization', which is the ability to create matter out of nothingness. Far superior to transmutation. Transmutation does exist in DBZ though.

Goku (and others) can use 'Instant Transmission'. Which would equate to faster-than-light speeds.

Time-Travel exist in BDZ. (Future)Trunks did it as an example.

Really low scale transmutation (making clothes), using machines to time travel isn't by their own power, and Instant transmission is teleportation which has nothing to do with speed.


As said, the strongest characters in DB are low-herald.

Turning a simple club into dimensional sword isn't "low scale", as an example. Magic Materialization (something from nothing) surpasses transmutation though.

Instant Transmission is equal/better than FTL travel.

So the only real thing is time-traveling without the use of a machine.

It is pretty low. And making things out of magic has nothing to do with and is below manipulating matter to your whim.

No, its teleporting. Speed is covering a distance, teleporting does not include distance. Speed =/= teleporting. Also Goku can only use it as fast as his reactions are, which is below FTL.

Originally posted by BloodRain
It is pretty low. And making things out of magic has nothing to do with and is below manipulating matter to your whim.

No, its teleporting. Speed is covering a distance, teleporting does not include distance. Speed =/= teleporting. Also Goku can only use it as fast as his reactions are, which is below FTL.

No, that example wouldn't be low. Creating electrical energy from nothing is more impressive than turning a teacup into electrical energy. This isn't debatable.

Yes; which is more impressive. Teleporting anywhere in the galaxy instantly is superior in having to travel from point A to B at ridiculous speeds.

You posted a list of "typical herald powers" and are now asserting that more impressive powers don't matter, since they don't meet your insanely strict demands you're imposed.

It is. Theres a reason why there's an endless amount of characters that can create energy, electricity, fire etc and only a handful that can break down and rewrite /any matter/ into something completely different. The point is that DB has manipulation as blasts and low transmutation levels, and yes low seeing as the best feat is turning people into food or making clothes.

1- He can't teleport anywhere without sensing ki first, which takes a while. 2- He couldn't go to Namek without King Kai's senses. 3- Teleporting is only useful when crossing distance while speed gives you movement, combat speed and reactions. Can't really argue that Nightcrawler's teleports are more impressive than Silver Surfer's FTL speed.

'insanely strict'? No, what I'm saying is that the top tiers are low herald as no one has the speed, a few characters have limited matter manipulation, less have cosmic awareness. For that list above the top characters (Buuhan and Vegito) are planet busters with mid-low matter control. Around low herald.

Originally posted by carver9
Too bad Goku IS above Herald level and I'm talking about Black hair Goku.
Only if you ignore the feats of all the heralds.

Originally posted by Astner
What telepathy?

So... Do you think Thanos can mind-rape Goku if given time or what?

Originally posted by Bentley
So... Do you think Thanos can mind-rape Goku if given time or what?
No, not without equipment such as the mind gem.

Originally posted by Bentley
There:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=12617&pg=5
How is this a telepathic feat?

In the next page you see Hulk fighting the Avengers against his own will via Thanos' telepathy.

I think Thanos can mind control Goku just fine, soul gem or not.

Originally posted by Astner
No, not without equipment such as the mind gem.


How is this a telepathic feat?

Mind control is a very common use of telepathy in comics. Thanos is clearly shown controlling Hulk.

It seemed very clear to me

Originally posted by carver9
Forgot to add...Black hair Goku would win this.

http://i47.tinypic.com/9awpaq.png


That's some funny shit right there.

Originally posted by BloodRain
"Typical Herald - level abilities include:

- Able to destroy planets and stars
- Degree of cosmic awareness (ability to perceive the happenings of the universe)
- Usually a good degree of matter/energy manipulation (such as transmutation)
- Faster Than Light speed travel
- Some limited level of Time Travel/Manipulation"

DB has destroying planets.. that is all.

Just want to clear things up:

-Saiyan Arc Vegeta at power level of 18000 could one shot the Planet Earth, the highest recorded power level is 150,000,000. Cell stated he could destroy the whole Solar System with a full power Kame Hame Ha.
(Not all Heralds can destroy Planets and no Herald can destroy a star with raw energy blast, but few of them can through transmutation and chain reaction)


-Kaioh could perceive the happenings in the universe and after life. Goku can if he concentrates.
(Firelord and Silver Surfer are the only Heralds that can use Cosmic Sense/Knowledge)


-Kami recreated the moon. Buu changed the entire population of the city into candies and clays.
(Silver Surfer is the only Herald who can use transmutation)


-Instant Transmission
(Not all Herals can travel faster than light, ex. Terrax, Firelord, Stardust, Morg, Red Shift)


-DragonBall characters can't time travel under their own abilities
(not all the Heralds can Time Travel)



Silver Surfer is not the standard measurement of a typical Herald but the strongest Herald.

Typical for Heralds:

-Usage of Power Cosmic/Cosmic Energy to augment their attributes

-Does not need to eat, sleep and breathe

-Can travel unaided in space



Heralds are simply created to look for energy rich worlds for Galactus to consume.

Heralds are not created to fight or go to war.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
Just want to clear things up:

-Saiyan Arc Vegeta at power level of 18000 could one shot the Planet Earth, the highest recorded power level is 150,000,000. Cell stated he could destroy the whole Solar System with a full power Kame Hame Ha.
(Not all Heralds can destroy Planets and no Herald can destroy a star with raw energy blast, but few of them can through transmutation and chain reaction)



I'm getting sick tired of people using flawed power levels as an argument to support anything. The power level system is flawed and was debunked years ago with simple math. Here's a recap: A farmer with a shotgun was rated with a power level of 5. While Roshi when he vaped the moon had a power level of 180. Using this power level argument If took say 36 farmers with shotguns their combine power level would be the same as Roshi. So, according to DBZ 36 farmer with shotguns can vape the moon.

cell was trying to outmatch gohan to the best of his ability when their beams stalemated (for a time)--it's safe to say no solar systems were harmed by more than 200% of that alleged power cell said he had

Originally posted by Classic NES
I'm getting sick tired of people using flawed power levels as an argument to support anything. The power level system is flawed and was debunked years ago with simple math. Here's a recap: A farmer with a shotgun was rated with a power level of 5. While Roshi when he vaped the moon had a power level of 180. Using this power level argument If took say 36 farmers with shotguns their combine power level would be the same as Roshi. So, according to DBZ 36 farmer with shotguns can vape the moon.

And I'm getting sick of tired people debunking Toriyama's work as if they are more knowledgeable than the author. Kaiohken and Super Saiyan multiplies power, it was stated in the manga and databooks. You can't debunked anything that was stated by the author. You're just a nobody in Dragon Ball franchise.

-Power Level of 139 alone cannot destroy the moon. It requires Ki -Control and Technique.
-Shotgun has no Ki Signature.
-Power Level of 5 is the standard Power Level for NORMAL HUMANS.
-Farmer can't use Ki control and Ki technique.

Using your Logic:
Imperfect Cell absorbed humans/life extract/ki from several towns are enough to overpower Super Namek Piccolo and No. 17.
Are you telling me that humans from several towns could beat Freeza? LOL

So, your opinion is still debunked or will remain as personal biased opinion unless Toriyama himself or the databook will point us that the power levels are flawed, if not, live with it.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
cell was trying to outmatch gohan to the best of his ability when their beams stalemated (for a time)--it's safe to say no solar systems were harmed by more than 200% of that alleged power cell said he had

It's safe to assume that your statement is anime filler. So, big no, Cell wasn't trying to outmatch Gohan to the best of his ability.

Originally posted by nij-ayias

-Power Level of 139 alone cannot destroy the moon. It requires Ki -Control and Technique.
-Shotgun has no Ki Signature.
-Power Level of 5 is the standard Power Level for NORMAL HUMANS.
-Farmer can't use Ki control and Ki technique.

-I stated PL 180 not 139.
-So, why did it effect radditz scouter?
-Okay, So, 36 humans without shotguns could destroy the moon.
-What does that have to do with his power level?


Originally posted by nij-ayias

Are you telling me that humans from several towns could beat Freeza? LOL

No, because his power level is in the millions. Moon busting power levels aren't even remotely close to that figure. So, that's an irrelevant red herring.

Originally posted by nij-ayias

So, your opinion is still debunked or will remain as personal biased opinion unless Toriyama himself or the databook will point us that the power levels are flawed, if not, live with it.

It doesn't matter since his system has a critical flaw. Apparently 36 farmers with shotguns combined have enough power to vape a moon.
Such a flawed system can't be scaled off because it's inherently silly.

Originally posted by Classic NES
-I stated PL 180 not 139.
-So, why did it effect radditz scouter?
-Okay, So, 36 humans without shotguns could destroy the moon.
-What does that have to do with his power level?

Did you read my post?

Shotgun is inanimate object, it doesn't have life signature.

Normal Humans can't use KI Control and KI Technique. Unless you can prove us that Normal Humans can.

Gohan in his first appearance who couldn't use KI Control and KI Technique has a power level of over 1000, can he bust the moon?
Of course not.



Originally posted by Classic NES

No, because his power level is in the millions. Moon busting power levels aren't even remotely close to that figure. So, that's an irrelevant red herring.

Yet Imperfect Cell who consumed humans from several towns defeated No. 17 and Super Piccolo. LOL
Normal Humans who can't use KI is irrelevant red herring.

Look, Kaiohken and Super Saiyan multiplies power and here you are dividing it back which is irrelevant red herring, LOL.


Originally posted by Classic NES

It doesn't matter since his system has a critical flaw. Apparently 36 farmers with shotguns combined have enough power to vape a moon.
Such a flawed system can't be scaled off because it's inherently silly.

How is it flaw when haters are the only one dividing it and not the manga or any Dragon Ball Databooks. LOL

Prove it, since when did Toriyama used power level division in any of his technique, LOL.

Originally posted by nij-ayias

Normal Humans can't use KI Control and KI Technique. Unless you can prove us that Normal Humans can.

Gohan in his first appearance who couldn't use KI Control and KI Technique has a power level of over 1000, can he bust the moon?
Of course not.



I'm not just talking about Ki control, It's energy. 36 humans combined have enough energy to destroy the moon. The fact that you're being defensive about it shows you realize how stupid this is? Toriyama would have you accept that a large classroom of people, combined have enough power to destroy the moon.




Originally posted by nij-ayias

Yet Imperfect Cell who consumed humans from several towns defeated No. 17 and Super Piccolo.

We don't know how much humans he consumed. So, you can't factor into your arbitrary power levels. Sorry.



Originally posted by nij-ayias

How is it flaw when haters are the only one dividing it and not the manga or any Dragon Ball Databooks. LOL



Weren't you the one who was earlier trying to scale PL using math? So, only DBZ fans can use math to prove their silly arguments. But, when I use it it doesn't count because I'm a "hater"?

Originally posted by Classic NES
I'm not just talking about Ki control, It's energy. 36 humans combined have enough energy to destroy the moon. The fact that you're being defensive about it shows you realize how stupid this is? Toriyama would have you accept that a large classroom of people, combined have enough power to destroy the moon.

I'm not defensive, I'm telling you, there's no such thing as power level division.

And Gohan without Ki Control/Technique with a power level of 1000 couldn't bust a moon. LOL, energy is nothing without application.







Originally posted by Classic NES

We don't know how much humans he consumed. So, you can't factor into your arbitrary power levels. Sorry.



No, I'm asking you using your logic if the humans from several towns can defeat Freeza. LOL.



Originally posted by Classic NES

Weren't you the one who was earlier trying to scale PL using math? So, only DBZ fans can use math to prove their silly arguments. But, when I use it it doesn't count because I'm a "hater"?

??

Power Level multiplication came from canon Kaiohken and Super Saiyan.

Now, where did you get your Power Level Division.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
I'm not defensive, I'm telling you, there's no such thing as power level division.

And Gohan without Ki Control/Technique with a power level of 1000 couldn't bust a moon. LOL, energy is nothing without application.

So, 36 humans applying their energy together would destroy the moon. Point still stands. Doesn't matter if it's shotguns or Ki blast.

Originally posted by nij-ayias

No, I'm asking you using your logic if the humans from several towns can defeat Freeza. LOL.

Which has nothing to do with destroying the moon.


Originally posted by nij-ayias

Power Level multiplication came from canon Kaiohken and Super Saiyan.


And, you can multiply 36 times PL5 to get the PL 180.

Originally posted by Classic NES
So, 36 humans applying their energy together would destroy the moon. Point still stands. Doesn't matter if it's shotguns or Ki blast.

36 NORMAL HUMANS does not equate to 1 Superhuman with a power level of 180.

Originally posted by Classic NES

Which has nothing to do with destroying the moon.

Freeza is above destroying the moon. LOL.
Your argument is group of normal humans, are you saying 36 Normal Humans could match Roshi? Prove it.

Using your logic:

Normal Humans from several towns can beat Freeza? Prove it

All Normal Humans from the Planet Earth can beat Kid Buu? Prove it.


Originally posted by Classic NES

And, you can multiply 36 times PL5 to get the PL 180.

KI/Energy fused probably since it's already a single and different method , but 36 NORMAL HUMANS gathering together NO. What can 36 Normal Humans do? Nothing.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
36 NORMAL HUMANS does not equate to 1 Superhuman with a power level of 180.

They equal the same power level combined.

Originally posted by nij-ayias

Your argument is group of normal humans.

No, my argument is that 36 humans combined energy output rivals roshi's. I've proven it with simple math and it proves that scaling of PL is silly because the whole PL system isn't well thought out.


Originally posted by nij-ayias

KI/Energy fused probably since it's already a single and different method

Or the PL method is gimped.

Originally posted by Classic NES
They equal the same power level combined.

If it is fused, it's no longer Normal Human's power level of 5. That's super human.


Originally posted by Classic NES

No, my argument is that 36 humans combined energy output rivals roshi's. I've proven it with simple math and it proves that scaling of PL is silly because the whole PL system isn't well thought out.

Again, combined energy is no longer Normal Human's power level of 5. Look, in Marvel's way Cap is 2x the normal human, is he a normal?
It's the same as combined energy from several town that overpowered No. 17 and Super Piccolo.
It's the same as combined energy from Earth that erased Majin-Buu.



Originally posted by Classic NES

Or the PL method is gimped.

Look, 36 normal humans will not read as 1 power level. Your making it gimped just to win an argument, you can't even provide proof on your claims, my proof is the Kaiohken Multiplier, what's yours? Nothing but hater's opinion.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
If it is fused, it's no longer Normal Human's power level of 5. That's super human.

And, the total is the same. 36 humans combined have the power to bust the moon.

Originally posted by nij-ayias

It's the same as combined energy from several town that overpowered No. 17 and Super Piccolo.



We don't know how many people they were.

Originally posted by nij-ayias

It's the same as combined energy from Earth that erased Majin-Buu.


That was more than 36 people.

Originally posted by nij-ayias

Look, 36 normal humans will not read as 1 power level. Your making it gimped just to win an argument, you can't even provide proof on your claims, my proof is the Kaiohken Multiplier, what's yours? Nothing but hater's opinion.

Simple math 36 times PL5 to get the PL 180.

Originally posted by Classic NES
And, the total is the same. 36 humans combined have the power to bust the moon.

Are we going circles here? Again, 36 normal humans have no ability to combined their KI because they are normal. Even if they could, they need to give that energy to a person who can use KI Control/KI Technique.

What's the problem if it's combined? A combined Ki of Krilin, Namek Arc Gohan and Namek Arc Piccolo could knock down Final Freeza once.

Originally posted by Classic NES

We don't know how many people they were.



That was more than 36 people.

And we don't know Super Piccolo and Kid Buu's power level as well. What I'm saying is it's the same logic.


Originally posted by Classic NES

Simple math 36 times PL5 to get the PL 180.

It's not evidence but opinion.

Normal Humans won't endure Kaiohken Multiplication, you need high power levels to do that. Goku at 8000 power level couldn't make Kaiohken x 5. What makes you think Normal Human's power level of 5 can? Provide source please.

Originally posted by nij-ayias

What's the problem if it's combined? A combined Ki of Krilin, Namek Arc Gohan and Namek Arc Piccolo could knock down Final Freeza once.

Oh, so, you're okay with 36 humans having enough energy to vape the moon?

Originally posted by nij-ayias

And we don't know Super Piccolo and Kid Buu's power level as well. What I'm saying is it's the same logic.

But, we have no numbers. Especially, such a low number like 36 being enough to moonbust.


Originally posted by nij-ayias

It's not evidence but opinion.

Math isn't my opinion.

Originally posted by nij-ayias

Normal Humans won't endure Kaiohken. . .

Doesn't matter since 36 humans have enough energy to vape the moon.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Oh, so, you're okay with 36 humans having enough energy to vape the moon?

Hey, KID? Did I say humans?I said KI. If they'll make the same process as what Imperfect Cell did or Goku did to erase Buu. Probably.

But 36 humans on their own,without assistance of any Ki Users. NO.


Originally posted by Classic NES

But, we have no numbers. Especially, such a low number like 36 being enough to moonbust.

Use your logic, normal humans from several town can't do a thing to Imperfect Cell.
36 Normal Humans can't do shit unless someone will absorb them or use their KI.


Originally posted by Classic NES

Math isn't my opinion.

It's opinion because it was not stated in manga or databooks.


Originally posted by Classic NES

Doesn't matter since 36 humans have enough energy to vape the moon.

36 Normal Humans can't do shit. OK, show us 36 normal humans manipulating KI.

Originally posted by nij-ayias

But 36 humans on their own,without assistance of any Ki Users. NO.

But, they still have the energy, Technicalities won't change that.

Originally posted by nij-ayias


36 Normal Humans can't do shit unless someone will absorb them or use their KI.

But, they still have the energy

Originally posted by nij-ayias

It's opinion because it was not stated in manga or databooks.


But, the numbers are.


Originally posted by nij-ayias

36 Normal Humans can't do shit.

Except blow up the moon.

What will happen if Thanos decides to teleport into space? Because Thanos is a villian that doesn't have any restrictions.

Originally posted by Classic NES
But, they still have the energy, Technicalities won't change that.

But, they still have the energy

Namek Arc, Gohan, Krilin and Piccolo have the energy but couldn't knocked down Freeza. But when combined, they did. Use that logic.

36 Normal Humans can't do shit. But if someone will absorb them, the same as Imperfect Cell absorbed people or Goku uses Genkidama, probably.


Originally posted by Classic NES

But, the numbers are.

Scans please, scans stating normal 36 humans can blow up the moon.



Originally posted by Classic NES

Except blow up the moon.

Look, you said fused energy, now normal humans, you don't make any sense here.

Originally posted by dvampire
What will happen if Thanos decides to teleport into space? Because Thanos is a villian that doesn't have any restrictions.

Cosmic Characters are too overpower in space.

Then Thanos wins because it's his ability to win a fight. He's not weak, it only shows how superior he is to Goku. Do you think it's fair for Thanos to limit himself to Goku's standards just because he can't breath in space? And you don't want to post scans because you don't want to be proven wrong.

Originally posted by dvampire
Then Thanos wins because it's his ability to win a fight. He's not weak, it only shows how superior he is to Goku. Do you think it's fair for Thanos to limit himself to Goku's standards just because he can't breath in space? And you don't want to post scans because you don't want to be proven wrong.

Make the fight in Kaiohshin Kai or Kid Buu vs Thanos.
Thanos couldn't properly hit Capt America.

I'm tired to post scans because you'll just make an excuse.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
Namek Arc, Gohan, Krilin and Piccolo have the energy but couldn't knocked down Freeza. But when combined, they did. Use that logic.

What's that got to do with the moon?

Originally posted by nij-ayias

36 Normal Humans can't do shit.

Except blow up the moon.

Originally posted by nij-ayias

Scans please, scans stating normal 36 humans can blow up the moon.


http://i50.tinypic.com/2meczzb.jpg

Farmer PL 5

http://i50.tinypic.com/2wlyis0.jpg

Roshi PL 139 confirmed moonbuster

How many people would it take to exceed Roshi PL?

36 X 5= 180

PL higher than Roshi is achieved with only 36 people. Which is also enough to moonbust.


Originally posted by nij-ayias

Look, you said fused energy, now normal humans, you don't make any sense here.



I said 36 normal humans = moonbuster.

Originally posted by Classic NES
What's that got to do with the moon?

Gathering together and fusing energy is different.


Originally posted by Classic NES

Except blow up the moon.


Originally posted by Classic NES

http://i50.tinypic.com/2meczzb.jpg

Farmer PL 5

http://i50.tinypic.com/2wlyis0.jpg

Roshi PL 139 confirmed moonbuster

How many people would it take to exceed Roshi PL?

36 X 5= 180

PL higher than Roshi is achieved with only 36 people. Which is also enough to moonbust.

Yes if someone will absorbed their KI and fused it similar to how Goku, Imperfect Cell and Piccolo did, yes. But without assitance, NO.

Originally posted by Classic NES

I said 36 normal humans = moonbuster.

Goku and Piccolo's Ki are not read as a single KI.

Gohan, Piccolo and Krilin's Ki are not read as a single KI.

36 normal humans would not read as 180 but 5 each.

No, unless you fuse that 36 humans, probably, yes.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
Gathering together and fusing energy is different.

They still have the combined energy of a moon buster.

Originally posted by nij-ayias

But without assitance, NO.

But, you agree that your PL system leads to 36 humans combined having enough energy to destroy the moon.

Originally posted by nij-ayias


No, unless you fuse that 36 humans, probably, yes.

Or count their collective energy.

Originally posted by Classic NES
They still have the combined energy of a moon buster.



But, you agree that your PL system leads to 36 humans combined having enough energy to destroy the moon.



Or count their collective energy.

I said, probably since using that logic, combined KI of humans from several town can overpower Piccolo and No. 17 or blow up the planet. Why not?

Piccolo and No. 17 >>> Moon

There's no flaw. Toriyama created it that way.

I can't believe you baited this guy into saying that 36 humans combined has enough energy to overpowered Piccolo, lol.

Originally posted by nij-ayias


There's no flaw. Toriyama created it that way.

So, you have no problem with 36 humans collectively having enough energy to vape a moon?

Originally posted by NemeBro
I can't believe you baited this guy into saying that 36 humans combined has enough energy to overpowered Piccolo, lol.

And humans from several towns could beat Super Piccolo and No. 17, what' wrong with that?

I said probably, but it happens thrice in the series.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
And humans from several towns could beat Super Piccolo and No. 17, what' wrong with that?

I said probably, but it happens thrice in the series.

smh

Originally posted by Classic NES
smh

Any idiot would not understand what I meant of Imperfect Cell absorbed humans from several towns overpowered Super Piccolo and No. 17.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
Any idiot would not understand what I meant of Imperfect Cell absorbed humans from several towns overpowered Super Piccolo and No. 17.

No, only a special breed of idiot would understand.

Originally posted by Classic NES
No, only a special breed of idiot would understand.

Yeah, Einstein is idiot too right?

Originally posted by nij-ayias
Yeah, Einstein is idiot too right?

What?

Originally posted by Classic NES
What?

How sure you're not an idiot if you can't answer the simple Strength of Materials?

Originally posted by nij-ayias
How sure you're not an idiot if you can't answer the simple Strength of Materials?

Because it's painfully easy to see that you're trying to save face by bringing up something completely irrelevant. Might as well start talking about statistics or algebra.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Because it's painfully easy to see that you're trying to save face by bringing up something completely irrelevant. Might as well start talking about statistics or algebra.

Oh, you're the one who brought up Math Induced Stupidity here, then you can't use it now, pathetic.

Saying group of Normal Humans without assistance can bust the moon.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
Oh, you're the one who brought up Math Induced Stupidity

Because it was relevant, how is strength of materials relevant here?

Originally posted by Classic NES
Because it was relevant, how is strength of materials relevant here?

Relevant to make something stupid.

Strength of Materials have math too, you used Math Induced Stupidity here. Why can't I use Strength of Materials if you use yours for stupidity while I use mine for your benefit?

I used Kaiohken Multiplication which is stated in the manga.

In the end, you were proven wrong, they need assistance, that's no longer 36 and no longer 180.

Originally posted by nij-ayias


Strength of Materials have math too

And, how is that math relevant here?

Originally posted by Classic NES
And, how is that math relevant here?

Because you said it's relevant.

While yours in reality, are not, LOL.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
Because you said it's relevant.


Not in regards to Strengths of materials.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Not in regards to Strengths of materials.

Yes because this is math and you use math for stupidity,

Originally posted by nij-ayias
Yes because this is math


Not in regards to Strengths of materials.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Not in regards to Strengths of materials.

It will benefit someone like you instead of using Math for stupidity.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
It will benefit someone like you instead of using Math for stupidity.

Still not relevant, Strength of materials that is.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Still not relevant, Strength of materials that is.

Math Induced Stupidity is not relevant as well as it's not found in any manga or databooks.

As were not even sure if 36 Normal Humans combined could or could not blow up the moon, we don't know it's mechanics, it will end up in opinions.

As for Kaiohken Multiplier it was stated in the manga that it multiplies all the attributes.

As for Super Saiyan, it's x50.

So where's your Math Induced Stupidity?

Originally posted by nij-ayias
Math Induced Stupidity is not relevant as well as it's not found in any manga or databooks.


All my numbers come from canon.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2meczzb.jpg

Farmer PL 5

http://i50.tinypic.com/2wlyis0.jpg

Roshi PL 139 confirmed moonbuster

How many people would it take to exceed Roshi PL?

36 X 5= 180

PL higher than Roshi is achieved with only 36 people. Which is also enough to moonbust.

Originally posted by Classic NES
All my numbers come from canon.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2meczzb.jpg

Farmer PL 5

http://i50.tinypic.com/2wlyis0.jpg

Roshi PL 139 confirmed moonbuster

How many people would it take to exceed Roshi PL?

36 X 5= 180

PL higher than Roshi is achieved with only 36 people. Which is also enough to moonbust.

But not the mechanics. It's irrelevant, because you're making stupidity of the given number.

Originally posted by nij-ayias
But not the mechanics.

But, the energy is still there.

Power levels were so retarded. So retarded they had to drop them.

Originally posted by Classic NES
But, the energy is still there.

But Toriyama or Goku himself doesn't know what will happen, it's all plot. Remember, Goku stated that the fusion with Mr. Satan will either make him weaker or stronger.

With NORMAL HUMANS WITH NO KI CONTROL/TECHNIQUE, we don't know the result, probably it can, probably it won't. Plus the assistance, how strong is he?

Your mechanics is pure opinion while mine was not because of the Kaiohken and Super Saiyan.