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Adult Franklin Richards from Hickman's latest run , decides to test his mettle against the strongest Earth god . He challenges Rune King Thor to a fight to death .

Battle takes place in an empty region of space in the 616-universe . Contestants can only win by killing their opponent under their own power . No help , bfr , extra weapons beyond the characters standard gear , any amps or prep allowed .

Who takes this ?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=564163

Your thread didn't specify any special conditions regarding their fight . Plus it also had a poll . Until and unless a mod comes along and decides to close this thread , it goes on .

Even with the new conditions, I think the results would end up pretty close to what was already discussed/voted on here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...threadid=564163

Franklin.

So Franklin is out of his mind powerful? Just ordered all the FF serious gonna check it out.

Originally posted by TheMask
So Franklin is out of his mind powerful? Just ordered all the FF serious gonna check it out.

You should read some of Hickman's latest run on Fantastic Four and Future Foundation . And then you'll know that only a fanboy would make a case for Thor . Any version of Thor .

FR wins this, it's not even close, to say other wise is fanboyism!!

So Franklin is a dues ex machina for the Future Foundation?

Franklin can beat all version of Thor put together..

So everytime they get into trouble they just grab the kid, or what?

Originally posted by TheMask
So everytime they get into trouble they just grab the kid, or what?

Depends from writer to writer .

Franklin annihilates

Franklin puts RKT in a box and verbally berates him to tears.

RKT is 100000x more powerful therefore he wins.


Assumption based on nothing, just like the above posters.You also can't dismiss it since RKT's upper limits are unknown.

Originally posted by Sabro
RKT is 100000x more powerful therefore he wins.


Assumption based on nothing, just like the above posters.You also can't dismiss it since RKT's upper limits are unknown.

Who has RKT faced , which is on the same level as Celestials ? We aren't making assumptions based on nothing . When you compare their best on-panel combat feats , then Franklin definitely comes out on top .
And no , RKT isn't 100000x more powerful . Franklin at full potential has been multiple times(one of them was a confirmation by a 616 Celestial herself) stated to be an equal to a 616 Celestial .

Now , Kubik , a fully functional , evolved cosmic cube , stated(for a 616 Celestial) that "a single Celestial possesses power several orders of magnitude beyond our own" .
Now several orders of magnitude can be anywhere between 2 to 10 . The mean value here is 6 , so for an AVERAGE power level , we'll take it as 6 .
Now an order of magnitude is defined as an exponent of 10 , therefore , for an average power-level , a single Celestial is 10^6 times more powerful than a CCU like Kubik(who can crush an entire universe in his hand) .
That's a power gap of 1000000 times !
Therefore , its safe to conclude from Kubik's own statements , that the average Celestial is 1000000 times more powerful than a CCU . And Franklin Richards(adult and full potential achieved) , is , at the very least , the equal of a 616 Celestial in terms of his overall power output .
So , basically Franklin is 1000000 times as powerful as a CCU .

In your opinion , based on on-panel statements and feats , how much is RKT above the a high end skyfather like Odin ?

Though I agree with what you are saying, you're getting too far into it.

Kubik has gesturely warped an entire universe into a palm-sized ball that he could've crushed in his palm. Despite having power of that magnitude, Kubik still stated that a random/no-name Celestial was FAR more powerful than himself, and went on to state that there was no possible way he or Kosmos could beat one.

Franklin not only battled several Mad Celestials simultaneously, but also destroyed a few of them. Granted, they were technically 'alternate reality' Celestials, but they still have feats to contend with any 'mainstream' Celestial out there, me thinks (the Council of Reeds, who had access to numerous IGs and UNs, were terrified of them for a reason, after all.)

So if we are assuming the Mad Celestials are roughly equal to mainstream Celestials, then: Frank >> Celestials >g_infinity Cube Beings >g_infinityg_infinity Skyfathers like RKT.

Originally posted by Galan007
You're getting too far into it.

Kubik has gesturely warped an entire universe into a palm-sized ball that he could've crushed in his palm. Despite having power of that magnitude, Kubik still stated that a random/no-name Celestial was FAR more powerful than himself, and went on to state that their was no possible way he or Kosmos could beat one.

Franklin (and Galactus) not only battled several Mad Celestials simultaneously, but they destroyed them with a fair amount of ease. Granted, they were technically 'alternate reality' Celestials, but they still have feats to contend with any 'mainstream' Celestial out there, me thinks.

So if we are assuming the Mad Celestials are roughly equal to mainstream Celestials, then: Frank >> Celestials >g_infinity Cube Beings >g_infinityg_infinity Skyfathers like RKT.

I am merely using the characters'(in this case Kubik) own statements to show the discrepancies between power-levels .
And no , when did I say that a mad Celestial is on par with their 616 counterpart ? Franklin has , multiple times , on-panel , been stated to be the equal of a 616 Celestial in terms of overall power output , at his max potential . IMO , the Mad Celestials are very close , but not at the exact same power-level as their 616 counterparts .
Also , Full Potential FR > ONE Mad Celestial , based on how he was able to dispatch one without much effort , before summoning/reviving Galactus . He ended up (according to the theory being floated on KMC) killing himself when he took that dive into the falling Mad Eson .
Therefore , based on all the on-panel evidence we have so far in relation to these characters' respective power-levels , I don't see how I was "getting too far into it" .

Also , the Council's 3 KNOWN IG holders clearly mentioned that their IGs only worked in their home realities . However , considering the piss-poor performance of the only Reed who did manage to activate his(although it can also be excused by the fact that the Reed who was acting as the living portal to that IG's native reality , quickly broke down under the strain , and caused that IG to get deactivated again) , I think you might be on the right track , in regards to the power-level of the Mad Celestials .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Therefore , based on all the on-panel evidence we have so far in relation to these characters' respective power-levels , I don't see what was wrong with my post . I didn't say anything was wrong with your post, did I? I just said that you're making it more complex than it needs to be.

From a feat/speechification standpoint, the Mad Celestials are roughly equal to mainstream Celestials. Frank > a Mad Celestial (he destroyed one with ease, and contended with several of them simultaneously.) Even a no-name Celestial was FAR more powerful than Kubik/Kosmos--and Kubik already had a universal-warping feat under his belt when he made that statement about the Celestials.

Therefore, Frank > Celestials > Cube Beings > RKT. It's that easy/simple. We're on the same page either way.

Originally posted by Galan007
I didn't say anything was wrong with your post, did I? I just said that you're making it more complex than it needs to be.

From a feat/speechification standpoint, the Mad Celestials are roughly equal to mainstream Celestials. Frank > a Mad Celestial (he destroyed one with ease, and contended with several of them simultaneously.) Even a no-name Celestial was FAR more powerful than Kubik/Kosmos--and Kubik already had a universal-warping feat under his belt when he made that statement about the Celestials.

Therefore, Frank > Celestials > Cube Beings > RKT. It's that easy/simple.

I edited my post just recently . I admit you never specified that I was wrong in any way . My bad for that one . However , the power gap between Cube Beings and 616 Celestials(and any alternate counterparts on par with them) is greater than what people have been led to believe .
In your opinion , how does a skyfather like Odin match up against an INCOMPLETE Cube Being like Post-Retcon Beyonder or the Molecule Man ?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I edited my post just recently . I admit you never specified that I was wrong in any way . My bad for that one . However , the power gap between Cube Beings and 616 Celestials(and any alternate counterparts on par with them) is greater than what people have been led to believe .
In your opinion , how does a skyfather like Odin match up against an INCOMPLETE Cube Being like Post-Retcon Beyonder or the Molecule Man ? Post-retcon Beyonder still created his own universe, and had full control over it--something FAR beyond a Skyfather's ability.

So yeah, even an incomplete Cube Being like Beyonder would be WELL above the likes of Odin, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Post-retcon Beyonder still created his own universe, and had full control over it--something FAR beyond a Skyfather's ability.

So yeah, even an incomplete Cube Being like Beyonder would be WELL above the likes of Odin, imo.

I was referring to incomplete Cube Beings and Odin , because both have a multiversal level feat . Odin's being more recent that the Cube Beings' , btw .

Also , the guy I originally responded to @Sabro , thinks that Marvel's Elder Gods "make all the cosmics look like germs" :
Originally posted by Sabro
Well, how can one be so wrong in just 1 post.Stating things he has no idea about , so clueless.

For one you have one of the mightiest celestials having nightmares about Elder God and you are assuming Celestial > Elder God.

Then you have Cyttorak who The Vishanti are very weary of and they were shown to be cappable of destroying hundreds of universes as collateral damage in a fight and also not paying any respect to LT.And then there is his avatar The Juggernaut who during his classic period was able to beat Classic Nightmare in his own realm and then you are saying Odin is some kind of a big deal and just a tier below Elder Gods.

And then there is Chthon who may or may not have been responsible for Wanda's feats but its a fact that the Chaos Wave that she was warping the omniverse with has a link to Chthon since Chaos Magic is Chthon's magic.Not to mention that Chthon was used in the same sentence with God(the shadow that cripples beneath God's feet ~~ and he is the only power significant enough to be compared to God)


In fact Marvel's mystics are the beings of the highest order in Marvel but on this board Elder Gods are assumed to be some Skyfather+ beings while in fact they make all cosmics look like germs.For instance CW Herc was amped to multiversal levels by Gaea(iirc, can't remember if she amped him or he had that inner power in himself but its a fact that he is her grandson so his power originated from her) instantly making him multi-eternity level.Thats how powerful Elder Gods are.

Beyonder IS (or at least was at the time) an incomplete cube being... So I don't get what you're asking..? Either way, Odin "shaking the multiverse" or w/e << the "trans-multiversal" damage Beyonder/MM's post-crisis brawl caused.

That guy's an idiot, btw.

Originally posted by Galan007
Beyonder IS (or at least was at the time) an incomplete cube being... So I don't get what you're asking..? Either way, Odin "shaking the multiverse" or w/e << the "trans-multiversal" damage Beyonder/MM's post-crisis brawl caused.

That guy's an idiot, btw.

The mutiversal feat was in reference to the fact that despite their greater range of (on-panel displayed)power , both these types of characters(skyfathers and incomplete cube beings) are well below a celestial in terms of overall power .
It actually has to do with the MJJ VS Adult Franklin Richards thread , but never mind , since this'll devolve into an unnecessary off-topic discussion .