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Nihilus nomz the galaxy.

/thread.

yeeeeeeeessssssssssssssss

I actually thought about this a few days ago.

It would be a good fight.

Abeloth is infinitely more powerful and is surprisingly resistant to a Force drain while grappling with Krayt and Luke. But then Nihilus's drain is several orders of magnitude more potent.

Also Abeloth doesn't know the defense.

Wasn't Krayt's drain back firing though? I seem to recall it was weakening Abeloth, but it was weakening Krayt as well.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also Abeloth doesn't know the defense.

Nor does Nihilus to physical implosion. She vaporized a town full of trained Sith Lords by accident.

He doesn't? I wasn't aware you needed a special defense against that, kukuku.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Nor does Nihilus to physical implosion. She vaporized a town full of trained Sith Lords by accident.

Nihilus did tank the MSG.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Nihilus did tank the MSG.

Did he? What stated he was actually on the planet when the MSG was detonated and not part of the fleet like Exile or Revan?

Originally posted by Nephthys
He doesn't? I wasn't aware you needed a special defense against that, kukuku.

Clearly you must be a mortal Force wound. Nihilus is only a Force wound and therefore lacks the power to stand up to Abeloth. 131

I don't even know how to respond to that.


u srs bro?

Originally posted by ares834
Did he? What stated he was actually on the planet when the MSG was detonated and not part of the fleet like Exile or Revan?


Because he had to pull the Ravager out of Malachor V's orbit afterward, to leave the planet. Duh.


Jesus Christ, what is with these stupid questions, sometimes? Just sayin'.

Concession accepted. 313

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Because he had to pull the Ravager out of Malachor V's orbit afterward, to leave the planet. Duh.


Jesus Christ, what is with these stupid questions, sometimes? Just sayin'.

Which still doesn't mean he was on the planet and tanked the blast. The MSG tore down ships when it was set off including Republic vessels. Nihilus's could easily have been on one of those in which case he simply survived his ship crashing onto the planet.

The fact that Nihilus was stranded on Malachor (which is stated in that sourcebook thingy that Gideon knows where to find) proves that he was either on the planet or part of the fleet that the MSG decimated.

I actually don't have a copy of the KotOR Campaign Guide anymore, but I'm sure someone can torrent it.

Not that I endorse such piracy of the non-butt variety.

Originally posted by ares834
Which still doesn't mean he was on the planet and tanked the blast. The MSG tore down ships when it was set off including Republic vessels. Nihilus's could easily have been on one of those in which case he simply survived his ship crashing onto the planet.


I'd love to low-ball the f*ck out of this feat, too.

But from what I can recall, he was on the surface of the world when it was set off, survived it and wrenched le warship out of orbit to escape.

Surviving the shipwreck would still be impressive, too, though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The fact that Nihilus was stranded on Malachor (which is stated in that sourcebook thingy that Gideon knows where to find) proves that he was either on the planet or part of the fleet that the MSG decimated.

I have the KotOR sourcebook too. I'll try to host the excerpt later.

Checked Nihilus's profile in the Campaign Guide didn't see anything saying he was stranded on Malachor V. Still, I will admit it is likely he was.

Why can't you people post the damn thing for all of us to see? I did it with the Fact File, which was an obscene pain in the ass.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Surviving the shipwreck would still be impressive, too, though.

Don't see why. Many character's have survived their ships crashing. Some even bail ship and use the force to survive the fall.

Well obviously not as impressive, but wasn't Nihilus a nobody in the Force in terms of both strength and training prior to his hunger or whatever?

We don't know a thing about him before Malachor iirc.

Your lack of knowledge displeases me.

His name was Bob and he was a spaceship mechanic.

I still wish they could find a way to make him Zayne Carrick from the KotOR comics.

I hate Nihilus.

Don't let Zamp read that.

IMO Nihilus has the best character design of a Sith Lord barring Vader and Revan.

And he's pretty ****ing badass and cool even without that. A very well done character.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
I hate Nihilus.

This is harsh, man. Nihilus hasn't done anything to you.

You don't like Dooku's stylish beardsword? The man is never unarmed.

Btw, do I need to get rid of this signature or what?

I hate that thanks to his stupid drain, he can beat the most powerful Sith.


That's not fair, KOTOR II writers f**k you.


Edit - well it does make me look like I don't think Sidious is the most powerful, which I do, but whatever. Gideon's signature was WAY cooler though...

Originally posted by Nephthys
IMO Nihilus has the best character design of a Sith Lord barring Vader and Revan.

Yeah, his design was great. As was the concept and buildup. But the actual character and confrontation were terrible.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
I hate that thanks to his stupid drain, he can beat the most powerful Sith.


That's not fair, KOTOR II writers f**k you.

Boo hoo.

Force drains are nothing new and have been immensely stupid from virtually day one. But then so is the whole Quey'tek nonsense and Force Storms and essence transfer and all that stuff.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
You don't like Dooku's stylish beardsword? The man is never unarmed.

Btw, do I need to get rid of this signature or what?

Kyle Katarns beard is infinately kewler.

I dunno.

No.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Kyle Katarns beard is infinately kewler.

I dunno.

Kyle's beard can't very well challenge Dooku's to a duel, can it?

Thanks for the non-answer. Is it disrupting our emotional & sexual harmony?

Originally posted by ares834
I still wish they could find a way to make him Zayne Carrick from the KotOR comics.


Lacasfilm Ltd. has particularly talented knack for ****ing it's own stories to shit.

Every time they make a sub-story with decent characters, they kill them off or downgrade them.

What they did to KotoR itself, was sad.

As the industry trudges on, it will begin to destroy itself, because they will have taken a good story - and stretched it past the brink of it's own structural threshold.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Kyle's beard can't very well challenge Dooku's to a duel, can it?

Thanks for the non-answer. Is it disrupting our emotional & sexual harmony?

But he cuts it with a lightsaber. Which makes it >>>

No, I say a lot of stuff. I don't really care. Is your quote in my profile unsettling your ego?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Boo hoo.

Now that's not nice. Remember when you threw a b1tch fit at the rumor of how SWTOR was handling the late Darth Traya? Maybe we should have responded like you did with the Major instead of our unparalleled sensitivity. ahuh

Originally posted by Nephthys
But he cuts it with a lightsaber. Which makes it >>>

No, I say a lot of stuff. I don't really care. Is your quote in my profile unsettling your ego?

Dooku's beard endures all, my son.

Good. And no, because the quote in my signature is infinitely cheerful.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Now that's not nice. Remember when you threw a b1tch fit at the rumor of how SWTOR was handling the late Darth Traya? Maybe we should have responded like you did with the Major instead of our unparalleled sensitivity. ahuh

That was because I thought they had fvcked up my favourite character and disrespected her memory by turning her into that fat pillock Baras' Force-*****. Valerian is just peeved that Nihilus can beat up Sidious in a fight.

There was this guy Gideon who had a great signature.

Maybe the Major feels the same way about the idea of Nihilus being able to defeat Sidious. You should be more considerate. uhuh

Originally posted by Nephthys
Valerian is just peeved that Nihilus can beat up Sidious in a fight.

I do admit that's the only reason I hate the faceless bastard.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Maybe the Major feels the same way about the idea of Nihilus being able to defeat Sidious. You should be more considerate. uhuh

Yeah but no.

No but yes.

What'd I ever do to you, Neph? Be more considerate you hurt my feelings

He's always moody, Major. Just take it in stride.

Maybe he needs sex. Go fetch, Gid.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
What'd I ever do to you, Neph? Be more considerate you hurt my feelings

I just don't like your face.

He bites when he's irritable.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I just don't like your face.

The women disagree.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
The women disagree.

When bribed.

Bribed or not. They like what the Major has to offer.

Itchy genitals?

Candy?

Does it really matter as long as they like it? I think not.


Edit - I mean it more in a sexual way, ares.

Candy on itchy genitals?

Originally posted by Major Valerian
Does it really matter as long as they like it? I think not.

I'm sure your junk is very chic.

Read my edit.

You read your edit.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
I'm sure your junk is very chic.


Originally posted by Major Valerian
The women disagree.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
I mean it more in a sexual way, ares.

Oh, I realized it. Just thought you preffered them a little younger.

Who doesn't?

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Who doesn't?


Well, Paula sure as hell prefers my genitals over candy.

Who's Paula?

Me.

You know, you liar.

Either you remember, or I'll give you this:


parm_smh

So me, Nemebro, and now the Major? Are you competing for KMC's biggest whore? ahuh

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
So me, Nemebro, and now the Major? Are you competing for KMC's biggest whore? ahuh

I said the name assuming you remembered her. YOU DO YOU JUST LOVE LYING TO ME

I wasn't aware there was any competition.

That's a tough line up.

I'm bad with names. At least I remembered her hair color!

Originally posted by Nephthys
I wasn't aware there was any competition.


I was going to tell you about it. Eventually.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I wasn't aware there was any competition.

Uh, you know I've been working my ass off (in more ways than one, eh?) for that title. Thanks for pulling the proverbial rug out from under me, b1tch.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
I'm bad with names. At least I remembered her hair color!

Considering she was the only girl in your forums and the only reason anyone ever posted, you should remember her name, you failure.

Why does everyone in my life hate me so?

Originally posted by Major Valerian
I was going to tell you about it. Eventually.

I meant for KMC's biggest whore. I mean jeezus, I know Paula's can't compete with me, c'mon!

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Why does everyone in my life hate me so?

I love you, I just have a hard time admitting it


ohwait

ily2

So Lucas is largely retiring from LFL and the new Star Wars uber-game has been announced. It sounds cool.

So did TFU and TOR. I'm not going to get my hopes up for this one.

TFU was fun, TOR was meh. This sounds more like Star Wars meets Splinter Cell or some such.

What uber Star Wars game?

Behold

1313

He's going to go to my link first. stoned

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Behold

Looks interesting.

Danke.

De nada.

Nihilus tries to drain her and gets weakened. Because she is far worth, than some wound in the Force.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
I hate Nihilus.
But N. is such a perfect distillation of what the dark side really is! Think about it this way: In KotOR, being really really evil made you grow horns and cracked skin and rage and shit. Being good to the same degree made your posture better. The light side is simply the action of life forms being the best that they can be. Meanwhile, the Dark side is a corruption/perversion of those life forms; they become cut off and isolated from their fellow beings. N. is the embodiement; the ultimate articulation of the illusion of separation. For a series founded at least partially in the ideas of Buddhism, that is a perfect lesson: To be separate is to kill yourself.

More to the point, N.'s appearanace is so perfectly arranged. He sends a minion to project his power, and then gets tripped up by arrogance. Much like Galactus, he is (meant to be) a force beyond any specific combatant.

U fubd B, ti be nire ubterestubg because he is tied in--"keyed in"--to the universe's metaphysical nature. He is actually part of the cosmology.

I love Darth N.

Originally posted by crisis_ryitua
Behold


That actually looks really good.


Like a modern version of the first Dark Forces almost.

He was played by a woman in the original ESB theatrical release.....

With eyes of a lemur superimposed over for effect no less.

But I think my point is that lumping the title of "best at everything" on Sidious diminishes his strengths that no other Sith have, and in Gideon's words turn him into a Gary Stu apparently on the level of Revan. If he was very good at combat, but matched by the best of his era very closely or even overmatched, but smarter and outmaneuvered them all, fell to his own hubris (which seems to be the upfront message the movies convey to me), then I'd be totally happy. He's got strengths and weaknesses, but he's not a god. And he doesn't have to be. The concept that intellect can be more useful to a villain than strength makes the villain entirely fun to watch.

Would you want to see Hannibal if he was straight up murdering everyone with his hands in addition to outsmarting them all? Taking out FBI cops and judo masters like Bruce Lee with Rambo's spirit harnessed inside? Of course not. We don't expect Loki in the Avengers to beat down Hulk or Thor with his fists/magic staff of convenience. And we don't expect Saruman to come down from his tower and utterly beatdown the companions when he's clearly surrounded and broken in power.

So this cult worship of "Sidious it the most powerful ever, most smartest ever, best this ever" just smacks of ****ing boring characterization, and becomes an utter lack of consideration for any EU that doesn't directly fellate the character. In short, it sucks.

I'd agree if the EU's stories were at least on par with the OT. But they're not. TotJ the Bane Trilogy... Are, honestly, quite awful. Sure there are some stories almost as good like KotOR (and I'd be fine if characters like Revan and Malak were on par with Yoda and Palpatine) but it's the exception and has been pretty much ruined by TOR. Truthfully, I find that almost every single story not set around the movies to be horrible. Basically, I don't want the antagonists of these "bad" stories being stronger than the antagonists of "good" ones.

Pretty interesting commentary from le Moose and the god of war.

Originally posted by Erspei_Suggest
Pretty interesting commentary from le Moose and the god of war.

eurgh. whatever

My substantive, exhaustive, and unbeatable response is forthcoming.

Originally posted by ares834
I'd agree if the EU's stories were at least on par with the OT. But they're not. TotJ the Bane Trilogy... Are, honestly, quite awful. Sure there are some stories almost as good like KotOR (and I'd be fine if characters like Revan and Malak were on par with Yoda and Palpatine) but it's the exception and has been pretty much ruined by TOR. Truthfully, I find that almost every single story not set around the movies to be horrible. Basically, I don't want the antagonists of these "bad" stories being stronger than the antagonists of "good" ones.

Hm. I can certainly understand a knee-jerk reaction against "poor media". Things like Tales of the Jedi for example is bathed in poor story telling, coming out before the prequels and generally just setting bad precedents everywhere. But it's as much "respectable canon" as is Dark Empire or Jedi Academy. Each era has its measure of iffy or meh canon material; the Old Republic era is just maligned with having less canon to choose from by comparison. Try Deceived or Fatal Alliance for a start. You may be surprised.

I formally retract the strawman if it is so, but it seems to me that you were of the mind that Random Sith Mook #432 from KotOR should be on par or in excess of film!Sith: could you clarify further?
I'm confused as to what you mean by ignore anything but film + film EU continuity: could you clarify further?





It seems we've both committed a strawman. The movie era isn't the only one of merit, but it is the dominant one

Originally posted by Erspei_Suggest

I formally retract the strawman if it is so, but it seems to me that you were of the mind that Random Sith Mook #432 from KotOR should be on par or in excess of film!Sith: could you clarify further?

This is still a strawman. I've asserted -no such thing-. What I have said clearly is that holding up G-canon as superior by virtue of (insert reason here) and the rest of EU not aiding to this grand legacy as being mere shit and all Sith Lords therein guilty by association and shit themselves is a pretty heavy-handed way of dealing with debating in an EU section.



It seems to me that, given the Sparknotes of Love you provided earlier, your only interest is in the G-canon eras and EU pertaining to or building on that era. Therefore, why not just ignore the other stuff in your own personal head-canon? Why are you so intent on stomping out any EU threats to G-canon greatness? Seems like pushing water uphill for fun.



This is to address Ares' post. See above.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Hm. I can certainly understand a knee-jerk reaction against "poor media". Things like Tales of the Jedi for example is bathed in poor story telling, coming out before the prequels and generally just setting bad precedents everywhere. But it's as much "respectable canon" as is Dark Empire or Jedi Academy. Each era has its measure of iffy or meh canon material; the Old Republic era is just maligned with having less canon to choose from by comparison. Try Deceived or Fatal Alliance for a start. You may be surprised.

Don't get me wrong I'm not stating that all the media centered around the movies is good but rather that the films, specifically the originals, are. They way I see it the movies are the core of their era while the rest of it is "fluff". Yes, much of the fluff may be rotten like TFU or the Republic Commando novels but the films themselves, the core of this era's story, are quite strong.

For a comparison lets look at the TOR era. I find the actual story of TOR to be weak and uninspired. Sure, its fluff may be great (you mentioned Deceived which is honestly one of my favorite EU novels) but the main story of the era, the very centerpiece and linchpin of the era, is boring. It's for that reason I wouldn't want Vitiate to be greater than Palpatine. Now if Bioware created a very intricate and engaging storyline for TOR's expansion I'd be fine if they created a Sith whose combat prowess exceeds Palpatine. However, as of now I'm not.

Forgive me, you have neglected things I "have said clearly", favoring implications over assertions
Fair play's a b1tch
No one called anything shit





Because ignoring stuff I don't like is, in this sense, irresponsible
And I find plenty of the non-movie EU enriching

Originally posted by ares834
Don't get me wrong I'm not stating that all the media centered around the movies is good but rather that the films, specifically the originals, are. They way I see it the movies are the core of their era while the rest of it is "fluff". Yes, much of the fluff may be rotten like TFU or the Republic Commando novels but the films themselves, the core of this era's story, are quite strong.

For a comparison lets look at the TOR era. I find the actual story of TOR to be weak and uninspired. Sure, its fluff may be great (you mentioned Deceived which is honestly one of my favorite EU novels) but the main story of the era, the very centerpiece and linchpin of the era, is boring. It's for that reason I wouldn't want Vitiate to be greater than Palpatine. Now if Bioware created a very intricate and engaging storyline for TOR's expansion I'd be fine if they created a Sith whose combat prowess exceeds Palpatine. However, as of now I'm not.

Having not played all storylines to completion, I'm not inclined to agree or disagree with you here. In retrospect, TOR failed to keep me playing, but probably more because of the end-game appeal to WoWers instead of everyone else, and the fact that I can't afford a subscription at this time than being brutally unplayable or poor storytelling. Some storylines I've been told were exceptionally good (Smuggler, Imperial Agent, for example) and others were generic (Jedi Knight, Sith Warrior). The Sith Inquisitor line, which is the only one I finished, -was- good. It was compelling, steeped in Sith lore and history, filled with backstabbing and maneuvering, and had the character working to overcome superior opponents by intelligently gaining power and allies.

You end it by becoming a Darth on the Dark Council, and one of the more formidable ones at that, having achieved amazing power and a considerable cult of personality. You're charged with guiding Sith lore specifically and become instrumental in the war effort. All in all, it's a damn good storyline.

If you're really saying "I don't like the storyline for Vitiate as written by Drew in Revan", then okay, I understand that. Drew wrote some incredible Mass Effect books, so I give him credit where due, but Revan could have been worlds better. Vitiate will never have the insidious cunning of Palpatine, but he's going for the hybrid of Sidious and Nihilus. At least he's different. The era becomes less about him though and more about his lieutenants simply ruining his war effort, and the Jedi struggling to overcome a near-fatal defeat by the Sith.

I think the era is exciting and has potential. Certainly far more than the thirteen minutes of the Clone Wars they haven't filmed left, or the time where Luke did something vague in the future.

Originally posted by Erspei_Suggest

Forgive me, you have neglected things I "have said clearly", favoring implications over assertions
Fair play's a b1tch
No one called anything shit





Because ignoring stuff I don't like is, in this sense, irresponsible
And I find plenty of the non-movie EU enriching


So basically "Blah blah I'm being contradictory blah".

I'm not in the mood for what Vene succinctly put as petulant little shit routine (possible paraphrasing), Gideon. If you can't reasonably discuss this with me, please at least try not to be so boring in your rebuttals. Oh wait, nevermind. You just strawman, mislead and cherry pick. Rinse, repeat.

Don't let me ruin your night because I might not agree with you. Because gods know that hasn't happened before or anything.

Revan sucked more male genitalia than half the women in my family and a couple of the men, too
The titular character was given all the depth of a contact lens
Vitiate is the lamest baddie since Triclops
Bastila was utterly defanged

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
So basically "Blah blah I'm being contradictory blah".

I'm not in the mood for what Vene succinctly put as petulant little shit routine (possible paraphrasing), Gideon. If you can't reasonably discuss this with me, please at least try not to be so boring in your rebuttals. Oh wait, nevermind. You just strawman, mislead and cherry pick. Rinse, repeat.

Don't let me ruin your night because I might not agree with you. Because gods know that hasn't happened before or anything.


It was "snarky shit" or some such, I believe
As I said, fair play's a b1tch
This is just banter anyway, don't get so upset
I answered your questions:

Thinking about it further, for a Sith to surpass Palpatine he would have to show an absurd amount of power. Which is incidentally one of my biggest problems with much of the EU. I find using the force to destroy planets, to summon wormholes to tear apart fleets, or other displays of such power to be ridiculous and outlandish. I prefer keeping the Jedi and Sith to be more inline with the movies and make lifting an X-wing to be a grand gesture of power. Once again I don't care if such a thing is surpassed but making a character rip down Star Destroyers is too much.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I think the era is exciting and has potential. Certainly far more than the thirteen minutes of the Clone Wars they haven't filmed left, or the time where Luke did something vague in the future.

Oh, certainly. I may like Luke but the vast majority of post-RotJ EU is terrible and contains some of my least favorite material.

Blame all the Sidious fanboys who decided to make a story where Sidious opens a ****ing wormhole in time and space to destroy a fleet of ships, setting a precedent for bullshit Force nonsense.

At least Nihilus has the decency to be not so much a character, but more akin to a Dark Side abomination, a force of nature that is controlled by his power. As well as, yes, being from a long-past time of Force wielders and using a Sith technique that was apparently lost, so it could be handwaved as the older Sith and Jedi simply being more powerful since the modern ages have lost much knowledge.

Sidious is just teh uberest of teh Sithz who ttly razes planetz with his Force bewmz. I nearly shit myself when I found out that, rather than being a pretty fast and powerful psychic with a lightsaber of dewm, the dude could drain planets and open destructive wormholes in space in the ****ing EU.

IMHO, Sidious's power in the EU is just so much more jarring than Nihilus's, because Nihilus provides a disconnect from the films, even if Nihilus may be overall stronger or whatever.

Closed due to posters interacting with socks.