Top 15 Most Powerful Jedi and Sith

Major Valerian

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Jedis:

Hoth
Nomi Sunrider
Bastilla Shan
Revan
The Jedi Exile
Setale Shan
Yoda
Qui-Gon
Obi-Wan
The Sith Apprentice
Luke Skywalker
Kyle Katarn
Kyp Durron
Corran Horn
Kol Skywalker

Siths:

Ajunta Pall
Tulak Hord
Marka Ragnos
Naga Sadow
Freedom Nadd
Exar Kun
Malak
Traya
Nihilus
Sion
Atris
Vitiate
Bane
Plagues
Sidious

Okay, I am going to ask because this list seems completely irrational to me.

Why Hoth on #1? Why Bastila a number higher than Revan? What is Qui-Gon doing there?

What is Ajunta Pall, a practically unknown character, doing on the #1 spot? Tulak Hord? Naga Sadow? Marka Ragnos? We can only speculate their power... What are Malak and Traya doing above Nihilus and why? Ant the last two questions, and I emphasize:

WHAT IS ATRIS DOING ABOVE BANE, VITIATE, AND PLAGUEIS??? AND WHY IS SIDIOUS DEAD LAST????

no expression

Pwned

He said he put them in chronological order. Though I question some of them anyways.

Major Valerian

lawlz I missed the chronological order thing.

Major Valerian

But still, even though it is in chronological order, I question the order of everyone I asked about. Highly.

RE: Blaxican

Because your Mom.

NemeBro

Darth Ray Park

Anakin never came lose to achieving his potential and isn't a tenth of what he could be. h never managed to be able to challenge the Emporer and was never as powerful as even Yoda.

In his prime, which is RotS, in his battle with Obi-Wan, they were both equals with the Force, as evidented when the stalemate in the force push battle, but obi-wan have the superior lightsaber skills and it showed when he beated him.

why do you think he should make either list when there are somany powerful jedis and siths out there?

Nephthys

Personally I agree. Anakin may have had a lot of potential, but he was a ****ing awful Jedi who never amounted to even a third of what he could have been. If we were going by potential then we'd have to stick Leia in there as well, despite her being mediocre at best.

Edit: V Haha, dude, Qui-Gon ****ing sucks!

Darth Ray Park

Originally posted by Major Valerian
Okay, I am going to ask because this list seems completely irrational to me.

Why Hoth on #1? Why Bastila a number higher than Revan? What is Qui-Gon doing there?

What is Ajunta Pall, a practically unknown character, doing on the #1 spot? Tulak Hord? Naga Sadow? Marka Ragnos? We can only speculate their power... What are Malak and Traya doing above Nihilus and why? Ant the last two questions, and I emphasize:

WHAT IS ATRIS DOING ABOVE BANE, VITIATE, AND PLAGUEIS??? AND WHY IS SIDIOUS DEAD LAST????

no expression

Qui-Gon is at the very least second most powerful Jedi from the movies and was judged worthy to join the ones on mortis as a force ghost and become one of their family. Obviously i can't use his power as a one as he was no longer jedi then but to be judged worthy in first place tells you how powerful he was.

Out of thousands of years, Tulak Hord, Ajunta Pall, Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow were judged as being the very greatest and most powerful of the sith. THis is confirmed by Traya and the academy you come across in kotor 1 on korriban. Tulak Hord would have made the jedis of the exiles time look like kids playing with toys in combat, and ajunta pall was one of the greatest alchemists ever, and even as a force ghost almost kills you in kotor 1. And marka ragnos and naga sadow were greatest of the sith even during time of vitiate, which should tell you of theur power. Oh that reminds me, I forgot simus who was able to live without the rest of his body. He would maybe make the list too.

NemeBro

Vader would crush Atris, for one.

Darth Ray Park

Originally posted by Nephthys
Personally I agree. Anakin may have had a lot of potential, but he was a ****ing awful Jedi who never amounted to even a third of what he could have been. If we were going by potential then we'd have to stick Leia in there as well, despite her being mediocre at best.

Yep exactly. Neme you should probably play the kotor games, the forced unleashed and read tales of the jedi to know how powerful soe of these jedis get.

As an example, in fall of the sith empire, Naga sadow force crushed an entire sun and darth nihilus kill an entire race. Anakin isn't even close to people like TSA who lifted a star destroyer or bane who destroyed an entire temple with a force push. We also have people who are immortal like Sion and Simus, and Sidious later on in EU can summon wormholes. At end of Kotor 2 Traya predicted Jango's Death at hands of Mae Windu. But here's the good part. She did it over 7000 years before it even happened! I think now you may be starting to understand how powerful these people are.

Nephthys

To balance out my standing between you two, I'll say that yeah, Anakin could beat Atris, and Qui-Gon is absolutely not the second strongest Jedi in the movies.

Darth Ray Park

Atris is one of few to master both the lightside and the darkside, challenged and survived fight with Nihilus in her youth, channels the power of Taris and is declared the second Darth Traya. She is both following the footsetps of Kreia and acts as a rival to Nihilus. When you fight Atris she can destory droids with a gesture and use high level pwoers like force wave and force storm which as we know from later material gives her access to wormholes.

RE: Blaxican

"Mastering the dark side and the light side" would be a philosophical feat, not an indication of combat prowess.

Furthermore, game mechanics mean nothing. Unless she's shown in a canon scene the ability to use abilities like warp storms, nothing indicates that she has the ability.

Darth Ray Park

Qui-Gon is only Jedi to truly understand the forcr in the movies, receieved advanced training with the Whills and was first to become force ghost. He was later judged worthy to join the oens on mortis, where he becomes one of the most powerful force users ever. Add the fact that he was a jedi consular, and yet his technique with a lightsaber was arguably as good as anoon bondara's, and he regularly challenged both mace windu. As it was the force that was his forte i think the only jedi we can say is possibly better is master yoda. When he was younger he kills multiple dark jedi as well such as xanatos who almost assassinate master yoda.

Darth Ray Park

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
"Mastering the dark side and the light side" would be a philosophical feat, not an indication of combat prowess.

But by mastering both she can use advanced powers form both sides. She can use stuff like force wave and mass destroy droid, as well as force storm and mega drain. She knows advanced secrets from malachor and numerous advanced jedi and sith holocrons. She was premier historian after Traya.

Darth Ray Park

Bantha got you tail Neme?

Nephthys

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Atris is one of few to master both the lightside and the darkside, challenged and survived fight with Nihilus in her youth, channels the power of Taris and is declared the second Darth Traya.

No she isn't, no she didn't, no she didn't and yeah, but that doesn't make her instantly a powerhouse.

Darth Ray Park

Have you played KotOr 2 with cut contnt restored?

Darth Ray Park

Bantha git your tail Neme?

RE: Blaxican

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
But by mastering both she can use advanced powers form both sides. She can use stuff like force wave and mass destroy droid, as well as force storm and mega drain. She knows advanced secrets from malachor and numerous advanced jedi and sith holocrons. She was premier historian after Traya. Do you understand what "game mechanics" are?

Darth Ray Park

Yes it is people who fix bugs that appear i game during testing as part as QC during beta.

Nephthys

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Have you played KotOr 2 with cut contnt restored?

Yes, though cut content isn't canon, so it matters not. Firstly, do you have any idea how many other Jedi Masters have turned to the dark side? Its a lot and it doesn't make Atris anything special. Secondly, she never fought Nihilus. She was the one who alerted him to the Jedi Conclave on Katarr but she herself didn't show up. Other than that Nihilus stays away from Republic space until Kotor 2. Thirdly, where the hell did you get that crap about her channelling the power of Taris? Fourthly, you are made of stupid.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Yep exactly. Neme you should probably play the kotor games, the forced unleashed and read tales of the jedi to know how powerful soe of these jedis get.

As an example, in fall of the sith empire, Naga sadow force crushed an entire sun and darth nihilus kill an entire race. Anakin isn't even close to people like TSA who lifted a star destroyer or bane who destroyed an entire temple with a force push. We also have people who are immortal like Sion and Simus, and Sidious later on in EU can summon wormholes. At end of Kotor 2 Traya predicted Jango's Death at hands of Mae Windu. But here's the good part. She did it over 7000 years before it even happened! I think now you may be starting to understand how powerful these people are. First of all, don't you ever think to condescend to me again by suggesting I play shit I have already played.

Naga Sadow didn't use his own Force power alone to destroy the sun. Stop lying.

Darth Nihilus is more powerful than Vader. Now, while you are clearly intellectually lesser than the common man, that is no excuse to strawman something I said.

Also, Anakin isn't close to Galen Marek? Are you high? He held his own against him in single combat quite a few times and at times held the advantage.

Traya predicting the death of Jango doesn't... Well it doesn't mean a lot in power.

Vader is 4/5ths as strong as Sidious pre-DE, that alone gives him the win above featless whores like Atris.

Darth Ray Park

Rearrange her letters and think about it for a while bro.

Nephthys

All that art of her fighting Nihilus on the box and disk and shit is complete bollocks, never happened.

NemeBro

Oh Jesus, is ****ing game art being taken as canon now?

Nephthys

No, but anagrams totally are!

Darth Ray Park

Originally posted by NemeBro
First of all, don't you ever think to condescend to me again by suggesting I play shit I have already played.

if you have played it then why have you forgotten mosyt of the tsuff that happens in it.

Also replay kotor 2 with cut content please. I will have you at disadvantage until you do. I really will.

Yes he did. he was in his ship and all he had to do was clench his fist, and "Boom" the star exploded.

WTF are you talking about?

Liar vader had to catch him off guard to get the better of him when theyt fight evenly any by the end of the game YTSA owns him with ease.And also, TSA isnlt even that powerful, he is like a slightly better version of Darth Maul who doesn;t even make te list.

Where else have you seen someone born without the eyes of a miralaka make such a foresight? This is perhaps greatest feat of all time of tht nature.

Vader isn;t even a tenth as powerful as sidious after obi-wan killed him, where you get 4/5ths from?

Darth Ray Park

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, but anagrams totally are!

haha it was a jokle> cool

But seriously read her behind the scenes, that is why they name her the anamagram because she represnets power of taris that was lost after malak bombed the shit out of it. The Siths in KotOR 2 all had really weird powers. TJE was wound in the force. Traya was the force bond. Sion is dead but still lives. Nihilus is the death of the force. Visas is the last of the miralaka. Atris is the embodiement of Taris, the power was collected on teloes polar academy when it is desotryed and atris collects it into her lightsaber.

Darth Ray Park

Originally posted by Nephthys
All that art of her fighting Nihilus on the box and disk and shit is complete bollocks, never happened.

Not true download the coruscant mod please.

Nephthys

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Liar vader had to catch him off guard to get the better of him when theyt fight evenly any by the end of the game YTSA owns him with ease.And also, TSA isnlt even that powerful, he is like a slightly better version of Darth Maul who doesn;t even make te list.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Not true download the coruscant mod please.

http://airstre.am/dopamine72/Nicolas%20Cage%20Laugh.gif

Darth Ray Park

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, though cut content isn't canon, so it matters not. Firstly, do you have any idea how many other Jedi Masters have turned to the dark side?

As it was on the disc at release and the mechanics just didnt have time to program it into game it is canon, especiall as bioware later endorse the mod and help by releasing voice logs for extra dialogue.

Many have turned to darkside, but few soend ever waking moment in a room full of deadly, dangerous, wicked, advanced, esetoric sith holocrons that speak to her endlessly. Atris has delved into the most forbidden secrets of both the jedi and sity, of thythos and malachor,m korriban and coruscant and dantooine. And she has mastered them all.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Not true download the coruscant mod please. kinda

Darth Ray Park

it is part of content resotration project, it is not fan made mod.

Darth Ray Park

I probbaly put anakin on par with Duron Qel-Droma. he also come from great force wielding dynasty and is powerulf and talented, and yet he got killed by a tarentek during the great hunt. revan solod 2 of them himself while he was sick and just been betrayed by yahura ban.

Darth Ray Park

Bantha got your tail Nephyts?

Nephthys

Oh yeah, thats it. I'm just trembling too much to type. Games over dude, you win. I know when I'm beat. You're just too fantastic!

Darth Ray Park

Your cheeks are red and yuour lips are moist bro you nervous?

Darth Ray Park

it is good that nemebro heeded my warning he was losing the debate and it is because he has not fully played the games nor read tales of the jedi. plus he dpes not regularly debate here so he is not very up to date with sw info.

Nephthys

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Your cheeks are red and yuour lips are moist bro you nervous?

I've shat my pantaloons, yes.

But surely you're used to that reaction. I can scarcely imagine the knicker that goes un-shat in your presence.

Major Valerian

And you said I was mean when I first addressed this guy. NOW U UNDERSTAND???

Darth Ray Park, there is SO MUCH WRONG with almost every single thing you've said throughout these three pages that it's not even worth discussing it with you.

RE: Blaxican

He's a sock-troll. Good job, guys.

Lord Lucien

But of who? Ush hasn't spotted him.

Major Valerian

You know what? I don't care if he is a sock/troll. I can't just stand by and watch him write all his bullshit. So,

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Qui-Gon is at the very least second most powerful Jedi from the movies and was judged worthy to join the ones on mortis as a force ghost and become one of their family. Obviously i can't use his power as a one as he was no longer jedi then but to be judged worthy in first place tells you how powerful he was.

Evidence, mate. You need it. Desperately. It is never stated Qui-Gon is the second most powerful Jedi from the movies, and there are at least three Jedi more powerful: Anakin, Yoda, and Mace. At least. He was never judged worthy to join the Ones and even if he was, there is no way you could possibly know it was because he had become powerful. On the other hand, he was a goddamn Force ghost. That doesn't even count.

Kreia is not omniscient. She is a character in the game, and character's opinions do not count as canon in any way. You need to get your facts straight. Secondly, Ajunta Pall almost kills you in KOTOR 1? As somebody has said before, you really need to learn what 'game mechanics' means. You only keep making a fool out of yourself by taking them into consideration for your arguments.

When Marka Ragnos was the ruler of the Sith Empire, Vitiate was not nearly as powerful as he 3as during his reign as Sith Emperor, so your point is moot. He gained power throughout the years and if you recall, chose to stay out the way during Marka Ragnos' reign, not even participating in the war against the Jedi and the Republic and not even interested in fighting for the throne when Ragnos fell. Your argument is baseless.

Falling to the dark side does not = 'mastering both the lightside and the dark side'. And no, he did not challenge and survived a fight with Darth Nihilus. It is never stated, not by a single source. And again, game mechanics. Learn what it means.

Cut-content is not canon. Understand this.

Marek destroys Maul, forcewise. And he destroys Vader. He is powerful.

This has absolutely nothing to do with power. How can this help in a battle against any opponent? Being able to foresee something does not make her all-powerful by any means, and not in any way.

Darth Vader after ROTS is stated to have 80% the power Sidious has. That is a lot considering that even by ROTS Sidious is considered to be one of the most powerful Sith ever.

ares834

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
But of who? Ush hasn't spotted him.

I'd think of Padawan Kenobi or whatever he called himself. You know the guy who claimed he worked on the movies and was friends with Ray Park.

Lord Lucien

Oh yeah...

Darth Ray Park

Sidious by RotS is really not very powerful. None of the Jedis in the movie are. The only reason Yoda, Qui-Gon and Ovi-Wan make the list is because Jedis ar emuch weaker than the Siths. Being 80% of him sound sabout right, at RotS. But afterwards Anakin onlky gets weaker and Sidious only stronger. ROTJ Vader isn;t a tenth of DE Sidioius.

She will be able to predict what opponent does and counter it before he does it. Traya will be ebtter at this than any other Jedi in the entire history of the Star Wars.

Maul is underrated force wise. He uses it as defence more than offence, but when it comes to defence its among the best. He devoted all of his force training to his force shield, has incredible potential and is completely immune to force lightning. Maul probably destroys Marek in a lightsaber duel too. He possibly wins all out bro.

No disagreements on second point.

He is powerful around the movie eras but he is not in league of nihilus or abeloth etc...

It is included on the disc, should have been in game but mechanics forgot to program it in, is endorsed by bioware and lucasarts and they even provided voice logs for extra dialogue to modding group. It is canon.

No. Mastering both the light and dark means masteirng both the light and dark. Atris is premier historian after traya and she spent all her time talking to ancient holocrons. She uses advanced powers like force storm in fight against exile.

You're right, "he" didn;t. "She" did. Play Kotor 2 with cut content reinstalled please.

A;ready asked and aswered next question please.

She is closest person there is being premier historian and premier seer in entire saga. If she says it, chances are its right. Plus it is no coincidence it was those 4 tombs that were placed directly in the valley of the jedi. They were the 4 greatest siths of their times, which was thousands of years.

Watch Clone WaRS CARTTOON please.

And Qui-Gon was the wisest Jedi in the movies easily, and wisdom usually translates into force power. He udnerstood the force better than anyone else, received advanced training, and was much bigger character than mace windu who was at best supporting character during prequels whereas quigon was main character during episode 1. And as said he regularly challenged anoon bondara and mace windu in lightsaber combat,m two lightsaber specialists when he was just a consular. Only other person like that is Yoda.

Darth Ray Park

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
He's a sock-troll. Good job, guys.

You know, there was only one time I was acting like a sock/troll:

I would like to take this back Valerian I will concede the point it is true that the Vitiate from those times wasn;t at his peak.

Nephthys

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Sidious by RotS is really not very powerful. None of the Jedis in the movie are. The only reason Yoda, Qui-Gon and Ovi-Wan make the list is because Jedis ar emuch weaker than the Siths. Being 80% of him sound sabout right, at RotS. But afterwards Anakin onlky gets weaker and Sidious only stronger. ROTJ Vader isn;t a tenth of DE Sidioius.

She will be able to predict what opponent does and counter it before he does it. Traya will be ebtter at this than any other Jedi in the entire history of the Star Wars.

Maul is underrated force wise. He uses it as defence more than offence, but when it comes to defence its among the best. He devoted all of his force training to his force shield, has incredible potential and is completely immune to force lightning. Maul probably destroys Marek in a lightsaber duel too. He possibly wins all out bro.

No disagreements on second point.

He is powerful around the movie eras but he is not in league of nihilus or abeloth etc...

It is included on the disc, should have been in game but mechanics forgot to program it in, is endorsed by bioware and lucasarts and they even provided voice logs for extra dialogue to modding group. It is canon.

No. Mastering both the light and dark means masteirng both the light and dark. Atris is premier historian after traya and she spent all her time talking to ancient holocrons. She uses advanced powers like force storm in fight against exile.

You're right, "he" didn;t. "She" did. Play Kotor 2 with cut content reinstalled please.

A;ready asked and aswered next question please.

She is closest person there is being premier historian and premier seer in entire saga. If she says it, chances are its right. Plus it is no coincidence it was those 4 tombs that were placed directly in the valley of the jedi. They were the 4 greatest siths of their times, which was thousands of years.

Watch Clone WaRS CARTTOON please.

And Qui-Gon was the wisest Jedi in the movies easily, and wisdom usually translates into force power. He udnerstood the force better than anyone else, received advanced training, and was much bigger character than mace windu who was at best supporting character during prequels whereas quigon was main character during episode 1. And as said he regularly challenged anoon bondara and mace windu in lightsaber combat,m two lightsaber specialists when he was just a consular. Only other person like that is Yoda.

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/114/5/d/laughing_korra_gif_by_mijoo-d4xhpnk.gif

Darth Ray Park

Non Jedi/Sith list:

The Father
The Mother
The Son
The Daughter
Abeloth
Qui-Gon (as a One)
Zonama Sekot
+ her mother cnanot remember the name it is another planet
The Keeper
Shimmra
Durge
Boba Fett
Jango Fett
Canderous
HK-47

Major Valerian

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Sidious by RotS is really not very powerful. None of the Jedis in the movie are. The only reason Yoda, Qui-Gon and Ovi-Wan make the list is because Jedis ar emuch weaker than the Siths. Being 80% of him sound sabout right, at RotS. But afterwards Anakin onlky gets weaker and Sidious only stronger. ROTJ Vader isn;t a tenth of DE Sidioius.

ROTS Sidious is really that powerful. Few Sith before him would be able to take on Sidious and defeat him. Only the likes of Vitiate, Nihilus, and such. And please, don't go on to say Marka Ragnos. We can only speculate their power, no sources have actually stated how powerful they truly are; they are virtually uknown. It doesn't matter what you think, Kreia is not omniscient and her opinion isn't canon. Deal with it. And yes, he is 80%, in his Darth Vader machine-like form, post-ROTS. It is stated.

No, she won't. Being able to sense the future in the way that she does, which is purely by having Force visions, has nothing to do with combat. Predicting your enemies' moves is a completely different thing.

No, he's not underrated, he sucks. Maul doesn't have a single significant Force feat, and he never demonstrates in any way that he is competent in that area. And, immune to force lightning? No, he's not.

In a lightsaber duel, he probably does defeat him. All-out, no. Starkiller's command of the Force is infinitely superior to Maul's.

Is it somewhere stated that this cut-content is canon? If not, and since it doesn't appear in the original game, it can't be considered canon.

Not anywhere is it stated that Atris mastered both light and dark side. Not even hinted. Being a 'premier historian' and gaining knowledge from ancient holocrons does not instantly make you a master of both sides. Once again, game mechanics. Not canon.

My mistake there. Read what I said above about cut-content. And even if she did fight Nihilus, that still doesn't make her all-powerful. Why? Nihilus clearly didn't drain her, and if it wasn't for Nihilus' drain, he wouldn't be half as powerful. Battling Nihilus in a lightsaber duel means nothing. Nihilus isn't known for being the best duelist; as far as we know his lightsaber skills are not great.

You didn't even properly address it and just went on ignoring everything we have said.

Already addressed above.

Wisdom does not translate into force power... You're just making things up. When is this stated? Never.

Mace Windu is stated to be Qui-Gon's equal in TPM. After that, Mace Windu did become more powerful, and Qui-Gon was dead. And what does being a 'much bigger character' (which he arguably wasn't) has to do with anything? And again, it is never stated he 'understood the Force better than anyone else'. Stop making stuff up.

Nephthys

It's worth pointing out that the loading screens in Kotor 2 do state that during their stay on Malachor, each of the Truimvirate did study in depth a particular esoteric aspect of the Force. Sion studied his immortality technique, Nihilus studied his Giga-Drain and Traya studied her powers of clairvoyence. Those are their 'signature techniques' if you will.

Darth Ray Park

Originally posted by Major Valerian
ROTS Sidious is really that powerful. Few Sith before him would be able to take on Sidious and defeat him. Only the likes of Vitiate, Nihilus, and such. And please, don't go on to say Marka Ragnos. We can only speculate their power, no sources have actually stated how powerful they truly are; they are virtually uknown. It doesn't matter what you think, Kreia is not omniscient and her opinion isn't canon. Deal with it. And yes, he is 80%, in his Darth Vader machine-like form, post-ROTS. It is stated.

This is laughable. Siidous, by the movies, is not veyr great. he can use 2 handed lightning and throw senate pods, and margianlly move faster than he physically should do. that's pretty much it. there are at least 50 force users in canon who have deisplayed far more than that

Post source and statement please. It is mostly liekly an exaggeration or a joke or blatantly stupid as you cannot assign numbers to someone's overall command in battle it is like saying chael sonnen is 80% of anderson silva it is stupid.

Vader is slow and only has a fraction of his midichlorians, can use force choak and move things around. he is not powerful at all.

It is same rhing it is same aspect of the force just like force crushing an entire planet or SINGLE PERSON, either way the scale is different but it is using same skill.

Yes he is read the darth maul comics he walks through lightning with ease. A nightsister used it on him and he tanks it like a boss.

Not really maul just doesn;t seem all that great because he only concentrated as his skills as a warrior and force defence. As said he walks through lightning with ease.

It was in original game disc and it was due to mistakes/timing that it wasn;t properly programmed in. as said bioware endorse the mod project, helped them with it and consider it the true storyline.

Yes they are. They program abilities into her character to show that is what she can do. Canon.

Nihilus is sitll powerful without drain he holds his ship together and lifted the entire fleet out of malachor, his presence kills and corrupts and against sion he was able to use force drasin, lightning storm and telekinesis simultaneously. Atris represnts power of Trais and as already showed nihilus needs preperation to be able to drain entire planet.

I later rebutted what i said okay?

Didn;t see it.

When you finally do replay kotor2 with cut content check out character creatoion screen okay.

In swordsmanship. As Qui-Gon is a consular who's forte was the force and windu was a swordsman that is veyr impressive. And actually, qui-gon was stated as being on par with anoon bondara, who was better than windu. and windu already had vaapad and shatterpoint in tpm and does not become much more powerul at all.

In movies qui-gon is portrayed as much better swordsman than mace as well.

No arguably about it he was much more important and much bigger a character than mace windu in the movie windu had nothing personal in the movies he was always on the sidelines and had few action moments in later films, in tpm qui-gon was actually a real main character with real character and motives and ideology and he understood the living force better than anyone and knew that anakin must be trained.

Major Valerian

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
This is laughable. Siidous, by the movies, is not veyr great. he can use 2 handed lightning and throw senate pods, and margianlly move faster than he physically should do. that's pretty much it. there are at least 50 force users in canon who have deisplayed far more than that

It is not laughable.

Sidious even by RotS is stated by various sources as "the most powerful Sith Lord of all time". Of course, this was prior to the creation of characters such as Vitiate, Bane, or Nihilus, but it is still to be considered when talking powerhouses. He took out three of who are also stated to be some of the 'best swordsmen in the Order' in a matter of seconds. Besides that, you judge only by what you see in the movie. It doesn't matter what he does or what he doesn't do against Yoda, it doesn't make him any less powerful. And it was against Yoda, one of the most powerful Jedi up to RotS. The fact that you regard Yoda or other Jedi appearing in the movies as 'not that powerful' is not my problem, and you are an idiot to do so since everything has been stated by various sources. I am not making this up, unlike you.

I don't have the sources with me, but I am pretty damn sure it has been stated. I honestly don't care if you believe me or not. You, on the other hand, other than planning out your arguments out of facts and statements, present them in a matter of baseless opinions and reckless assumptions.
And yes, yes you can.

Vader is slow? You do realize the OT movies were made more than thirty years ago, right? Knowing this, don't you think technology and budget might have something to do with the fact that Vader is portrayed as slow as he is in the OT movies?

Seriously. Logic. Use it.

No, it isn't.

The fact that the lightning of a Nightsister doesn't affect Maul that much does not make him immune to Force lightning. The power the lightning carries varies depending on how powerful the one using this power is. This is demonstrated and also stated in the novel Revan. Revan is able to absorb and redirect Nyriss' lightning, but he isn't able to do so with Vitiate's lightning. Why? Vitiate's lightning is infinitey more powerful.

You really think Maul would be able to withstand Vitiate's or Sidious' lightning using their maximum power? Reconsider your argument, please.

If he never demonstrated he is a Force powerhouse and it is never stated by a single source, you just assume he is. Assumptions don't make good arguments without any facts to back them up.

Unless it is not stated as canon, it isn't canon. Period.

No, no they're not. Seriously, you have to learn what the term game mechanics refers to. You have no clue of what it means, clearly. And you didn't address my point concerning Atris.

Yeah, without the drain Nihilus is still very powerful, forcewise. Swordsmanship is a whole other matter.

No, no he is not. The fact that Qui-Gon is defeated by Darth Maul and Mace Windu defeats Darth Sidious speaks for itself.

Lord Lucien

Actually, judging from the movies alone, Qui-Gon is the better swordsman to Mace. If TPM had anything, it was nice fight choreography.

Major Valerian

I still wouldn't say (judging from the movies alone) he's better. Mace's fight with Sidious is everything you need to know that.

Lord Lucien

No, Yoda's fight with Sidious is everything I need to consider Sidious above Qui-Gon. His fight with Mace was slow, cumbersome, and dreadful.

Major Valerian

But that's irrelevant, he was still able to defeat Sidious... Judging by that, you'd still think Qui-Gon is the better swordsman? Judging by the movies, of course.

Darth Ray Park

Originally posted by Major Valerian
It is not laughable.

Sidious even by RotS is stated by various sources as "the most powerful Sith Lord of all time". Of course, this was prior to the creation of characters such as Vitiate, Bane, or Nihilus, but it is still to be considered when talking powerhouses. He took out three of who are also stated to be some of the 'best swordsmen in the Order' in a matter of seconds. Besides that, you judge only by what you see in the movie. It doesn't matter what he does or what he doesn't do against Yoda, it doesn't make him any less powerful. And it was against Yoda, one of the most powerful Jedi up to RotS. The fact that you regard Yoda or other Jedi appearing in the movies as 'not that powerful' is not my problem, and you are an idiot to do so since everything has been stated by various sources. I am not making this up, unlike you.

I don't care abpout what your sources say they are wrong and whoever wrote them are stupid if they think those jedi are the most powerful swordsmen and sidious is the most powerful sith. I judge what we see them do and they all sucked Kit Fisto was a master of schi cho the most basic form, seasee tinn was first and foremost a pilot and agen kolar got his ass handed to him by quinlan vos who was a padawan at thr time. And worst if all, when you watch them the first two barely react and kit fisto's defence was terrible. Sidious did not look great, the jedi just looked terrible.

This will not be good enough.

he is portrayed the same way in other media and George actually stated that he made him like that on purpose as he was a machine and lacked the fitness of a physical body. Not eveyrone can be a yoda and use the force to compesnate their phsyical deifniciencies.

Bullshit it stems from same power it is just using it with a different scale.

Lightning is lightning it will always have the same current and temperature. The difference is size but as maul could tank it on some parts of his body he can tank it on all parts.

Aside from Force Storm, yes.

The way he tanks lightning makes him a force powerhouse imo as it was defencive application of force that was his speciality.

If it is included in product which it was as the files were on the disc it is.

Why program the charater with loads of imagianry powers unless they want to communicate that that is what she can do in a fight?

That she spends all ehr time learning from these advanced holocrons and then demonsrtates those abilities in the fights shows that she is a mastr.

If he could harm her with the force he probably would have. And he is dangerous in lightsabers too as he does not have a body he has no vital organs and doesnt feel physical pain, so he can keep going if you pierce the armour or destroy bits, the only thing you can do to compeltely physically kill him is to destroy all traces of the armour, or you can at least TKO him by cutting off his limbs. And we don;t know full details of their fight it could have been force battle as well and as i said atris both represents the power lost from the desturction of taris, as well as a true rival for nihilus.

See Lucien's post please.

And lol at idea that sidious is even half swordsman that maul is. Maul is without a doubt the best saber practitione rin entire star wars trilogies.

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by Major Valerian
But that's irrelevant, he was still able to defeat Sidious... Judging by that, you'd still think Qui-Gon is the better swordsman? Judging by the movies, of course. Movies alone. No EU. Visuals only. Yes. Judging Qui-Gon's swordplay when he fought Maul, versus Sidious' swordplay when he fought Mace... Qui-Gon is more impressive. Sidious is cumbersome, slow, and amateur by comparison. His one spry backflip off that piece of office decor was his greatest move--and it was utterly useless. His speed and dexterity shoots up when he faces Yoda though, so judging by those visuals, he's superior.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
See Lucien's post please.

And lol at idea that sidious is even half swordsman that maul is. Maul is without a doubt the best saber practitione rin entire star wars trilogies. But within the confines of the EU, Sidious is portrayed as far more impressive and skilled than Qui-Gon. And Maul.

Pwned

Just.... Just leave, please. you hurt my brain after reading that.

I do not understand why some people think its "cool" to make sock accounts and troll people.

Darth Ray Park

As a swordsman? Possibly better than qui-gon but definitely not maul.

Darth Ray Park

Originally posted by Pwned
Just.... Just leave, please. you hurt my brain after reading that.

I do not understand why some people think its "cool" to make sock accounts and troll people.

This is not the first timr you've called me a troll, man. These are my opinion you dont have to read them if you dont want to.

Pwned

Its not reading if you don't understand them.

Is English your primary language? I felt the need to ask.

Darth Ray Park

No English is my second language I also speak Swedish. But I have been speaking it for over 20 years now so this shouldn;t eb problem.

Darth Ray Park

Firstly, Maul was trained by his training droid among other martial arts experts and swordsmen. Palpatine did not have time to train him in lightsabers as he was too busy planning his takeover of the senate. He left Maul's training to others.

Second it is not just about skill. Maul as well as being skilled is incredibly athletic, possibly the most athletic person we ever come across in the entire canon. That is what makes him so dangerous, his physical abilities, his skill with both martial arts and the lightsaber, and his Force defence making him a very tough matchup for most jedis and Siths.

Read my post again please.

And what is purpose of these if not to design what appears in game? It is no coincidence that atris can use these. she was programmed with them for a reason.

So it doesnt matter how pwoerful you are it always has the same properties no matter how powerful you are, only difference is how big but as maul cna already tank it it doesnt matter how much of his body is englufed.

Different sale as in the moment of combat, the living force, and over long periods of time, the unifiying force. idiot.

Prove it. george also said that vader was weaker than all the ejdis we see in episodes 1-3 as well btw.

So because the encyclopedia says it it is fact no matter what we see the characters do int he strories? I dont think so hun. I;m not buying it.

So what that is just force enhanced precision no way he can do that in a fight. BTW just before thet maul, when he was sick and starving, was about to kill palpatine in their fight but stops out of loyalty at last second.

More worthless encyclopedia quotes. The encyclopedia is to give general overview it does not rpelace the novels and comics and those are what we use for these debates.

Kit Fisto
defeated grivous was complete fluke and he had to tap into the darkside. grievous isn;t even that good anyway in a fair fight, and he doesn;t use the traditional forms as he uses his own customised four saber form. Another worthless quote for dooku btw.

Major Valerian

awehuh

You're so stupid there's no way to even discuss with you.

Pwned

Since English is not your primary, I forgive you for all the spelling errors and grammatical mistakes (English is a *****, and its my primary)

But, please, go read the books again. Then go watch the movies. You really do not know what you are talking about......

Major Valerian

My response will probably be useless since you just refuse to listen and understand, but oh well. Here it goes, anyway.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Firstly, Maul was trained by his training droid among other martial arts experts and swordsmen. Palpatine did not have time to train him in lightsabers as he was too busy planning his takeover of the senate. He left Maul's training to others.

Oh, really? And where exactly is this stated? Oh, right... nowhere. You just make it up as you clearly have no rebuttal.

The whole concept of the Rule of Two centers around the fact that the master has to teach everything he knows to his apprentice. That is the whole point. If you're going to make things up, at least make them coherent.

This is irrelevant. Athleticisim has nothing to do with who is superior or inferior in terms of lightsaber combat. Yoda is probably the best example of this.

That's stupid. It's like saying it doesn't matter how hard you punch a guy in the face, since it always has the same properties.

Your words don't make sense.

When I find the quote, I'll be right back at you. He said that?

Prove it.

See what I did there?

It's not about you buying it. It's a f**ing fact. And yeah, pretty much. Since that source is not in-universe and those words were written by an unquestionable source, it makes it fact. It becomes a statement. You can't question it, you'd be stupid to do so.

Oh, wait... You did.

'No way he can do that in a fight'? Did you even understand the quote?

He is fighting. Against Maul. He's training him...

And what does that have to do with anything other than Maul being loyal? If you're implying he could've killed Sidious because he was more powerful, you're taking it over the edge.

The encyclopedia is canon. It's a source. It provides information about events or characters. It can be used in debates. I used it, and you have no rebuttal. Again.

First of all, what does the fact that he tapped into the dark side have to do with anything? He was able to overpower him, one way or another. In what way whas it a fluke, exactly? You have no argument.

Yeah, so worthless they are proving that your idea that the 'Jedi in the movies are not that powerful' is complete bullshit.

Darth Ray Park

Originally posted by Major Valerian
My response will probably be useless since you just refuse to listen and understand, but oh well. Here it goes, anyway.

Oh, really? And where exactly is this stated? Oh, right... nowhere. You just make it up as you clearly have no rebuttal.

It is in very siurce you posted earlier genuis.

Not every sith followed the rule of two that strictly. Not all of them taught their apprentice everything as some wanteds to keep some stuff to themselves and feared their apprentices becoming more powerful. And not all the elarning of a sith always comes form the master. Count dookue for example receuved training in the dark side from andeddu's holocron. TSA had to be trained by Proxy. It is same with Maul he had an assortment of trainers and rainign droids at his disposal. Sidious did not train him personally in martial arts or lightsaber combat.

Yes it does. Yoda is someone who can use the force to compensate for his physical deficienciesh. Now imagine how good he would be without thsoe deifniciencies? You don;t have to be athletic to be physically good when you have the force on your side, but it does help. And Maul is quite possibly most athletic sith of all time.

Read my post again. Moron. Lightning is lightning it has same temeprature and current no matter who summons it.

Nice reubattal genius. Just accept that it's the same catagary of power, just applied at different scales. I'm not saying it's the exact same thing. But a cross country runner will usually alos be a good sprinter.

What you did is play the fool jackass. he says it when referring to PT as Golden Age of the Jedi.

The encyclopedia is used to give general ovrview of stuff that has happened and it usually uses informal way of telling information. So it will tell us events and techical facts and details but the other stuff is just informal, irrelevant filler.

No it is as maul is about to kill sidious and stops, and the fight is over. That's when it happens. he wasn;t doing it to moving target, noob.

yes he could possibly as i said he is far better swordsman and he has awesome force defence.

Events and tehcnical details. That's it. You cannot jump on any word and terat it as formal and fact when the entire thing is mostly informal communication of events and technical deteals. You wnat dates confirmed, fine, it's great. WNT TO KNOW aTTAN rAND'S MIDI COUNT? sure it will do the trick. But it will not tell you who is more powerful when that is matter of opinion and value judgement anyway. Some people are skilled with the physical aspects of the force like tk and lightning. others with mind tricks and persuassion. others are gifted seers. there are people with unique abilities and unique talents. people with amazing defence, people with amazing offence. people who sue the force on themselves really well, people who are great with illusions. people cho have affinintiy with sorcery, people who cant do tk but can absorb energy.

There is huge variety of skills and differentr aspects of the force that cannot be mathematically compared. How do you compare bane's feat of destroying a tmeple and trayas feat of seing over 7 thousand years into future? You cannot, and so it will always be opinion of who's unique set of skills makes them the most powerful.

becuse he did not against sidious so it is not how he was in his fight with sidious.

It was burst of darkside driven power and he still only delayed grievous' attack and slightly sdiabled him, he didnt kill him or capture him and grievous was whooping his ass for most of the fight before.

Learn to analyse the original soruces itself then in act of desperation scouring encyclopedias for random statements that will support your argument.

Nephthys

Why are you still talking to him? Just do as I do, and laugh him off.

Major Valerian

Originally posted by Nephthys
Why are you still talking to him? Just do as I do, and laugh him off.

Yeah, you're right. I'm tired of him, anyways.

crylaugh0

NemeBro

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Movies alone. No EU. Visuals only. Yes. Judging Qui-Gon's swordplay when he fought Maul, versus Sidious' swordplay when he fought Mace... Qui-Gon is more impressive. Sidious is cumbersome, slow, and amateur by comparison. His one spry backflip off that piece of office decor was his greatest move--and it was utterly useless. His speed and dexterity shoots up when he faces Yoda though, so judging by those visuals, he's superior. The reason for this is because, for some insane reason, GL insisted that Ian performed the swordplay himself.

Of course an old ass man isn't going to carry a convincing fight scene.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Read my post again. Moron. Lightning is lightning it has same temeprature and current no matter who summons it. Are you retarded?

Lightning varies wildly IRL, let alone when it is being powered by what is effectively magic.

Its average speed is about 60,000 meters per second, but it can be up to far, far beyond that, at least over two million meters per second (The difference between about mach 200 and mach 6,600).

It is hot enough to be about thirty thousand degrees F on average, but can get at least up to over fifty thousand degrees.

And if you knew anything at all, you would know that lightning has different states, positive and negative lightning, etc. The average negative bolt has a current of about 30,000 ampere, but can get as high as 120,000.

Seriously, open a ****ing physics testbook.

Jinsoku Takai

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
This is not the first timr you've called me a troll, man. These are my opinion you dont have to read them if you dont want to.

You're definitely a sock if nothing else. And by the absurdity of your statements, you're either the dumbest mother ***ker I've ever known........ or trolling. God it pains me to think someone could be so dumb, so I choose to go with the latter option. And you've been reported. Have a nice day!

And BTW - you really should reevaluate whether or not you care about what credible (i.e. CANON) sources state about certain characters because, son, that's how we get it done here. In other words, your opinion means precisely jack ***king squat.

Darth Ray Park

Originally posted by NemeBro
Are you retarded?

Lightning varies wildly IRL, let alone when it is being powered by what is effectively magic.

Its average speed is about 60,000 meters per second, but it can be up to far, far beyond that, at least over two million meters per second (The difference between about mach 200 and mach 6,600).

It is hot enough to be about thirty thousand degrees F on average, but can get at least up to over fifty thousand degrees.

And if you knew anything at all, you would know that lightning has different states, positive and negative lightning, etc. The average negative bolt has a current of about 30,000 ampere, but can get as high as 120,000.

Seriously, open a ****ing physics testbook.

That is due to geologicak properties that influence lightnign beyond its natural state.

When it is being summoned by the force it is in its natural, base state as cloud, sky and wind properties have not influenced its nature.

Jinsoku Takai

Nephthys

Force Lightning isn't really comparable to RL lightning anyway. Force Lightning is composed of, well, the Force, and has unique properties because of that.

Major Valerian

You're right, but this:

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
So you're saying that Force users don't don't manipulate it beyond "its natural state"? Really man?

Is also true.

Zampanó

Darth Ray Park

Erm the Fore is simply summoning it as it exists the only thing unnatural is that they can do it in the first place but the lightning itself is default.

Nephthys

Clearly, I mean look at this completely naturally occuring purple lightning:

http://images.mmorpg.com/images/newsimages/122010/torfl.jpg

What do you mean lightning isn't naturally purple? MY IMMERSION!

Lord Lucien

Did they ever give a reason why they began changing Force Lightning from blue to purple?

Nephthys

I think there was some confusion over whether Sidious' lightning was blue or purple:

http://cdn.retrojunk.com/media/image/images/e89_985d4f0347.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmx3we7Z1S1qlr93co1_500.jpg

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/3/35/Vader_X-ray.jpg

Lord Lucien

Always looked 80% blue, 20% purple to me. And blue looks cooler.

Zampanó

Originally posted by Nephthys
Clearly, I mean look at this completely naturally occuring purple lightning:

http://images.mmorpg.com/images/newsimages/122010/torfl.jpg

What do you mean lightning isn't naturally purple? MY IMMERSION!
what game is that from?

Nephthys

TOR. All lightning in TOR is purple iirc.

Darth Ray Park

Colour has nothing to do with it

Nephthys

Of course. It totally doesn't descredit the idea that Force Lightning is simply real lighting conjured by a Sith. No, that would make you look silly. And thats just impossible.

Darth Ray Park

You are acting the fool and evyone can see it. The lightning is not purple or blue., What is coloured is the darkside taint left when summoning the power. The lighning is regular colour, what you are seeing is the darkside shroud left behind after using the darkside. Look carefully and you will see this. The lughtning i no purple. It is white. The outline is pirple.

Darth Ray Park

BTEW if i didnt help you in the debate last week you would have your ass owned and handed to you mate.

Major Valerian

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
You are acting the fool and evyone can see it. The lightning is not purple or blue., What is coloured is the darkside taint left when summoning the power. The lighning is regular colour, what you are seeing is the darkside shroud left behind after using the darkside. Look carefully and you will see this. The lughtning i no purple. It is white. The outline is pirple.

Actually, you are the one acting like a fool, and everyone can see it. Not Neph.

And everytime we counter your so called 'arguments' you come up with some unsupported, unproven, non-existent bullshit you don't even know how to back up. Just shut up and leave before you embarrass yourself any further.

Darth Ray Park

I just proved that the lightning is not purple fool.

Major Valerian

No, you didn't. You just made that shit up and have absolutely no way to prove it.

Major Valerian

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Look at picture fool it is visiually white with purple or blue outlines.

You idiot.

"What is coloured is the darkside taint left when summoning the power. what you are seeing is the darkside shroud left behind after using the darkside"

You said that. This is my response:

Originally posted by Major Valerian
You just made that shit up and have absolutely no way to prove it.

Major Valerian

You're retarded. You don't even understand what I want you to prove.

Shoud I say it more directly? Okay.

PROVE THAT WHAT IS COLOURED IS DARK SIDE TAINT. PROVE THAT WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS A DARK SIDE SHROUD 'LEFT BEHIND AFTER USING THE DARK SIDE'.

Major Valerian

Originally posted by Major Valerian
PROVE THAT WHAT IS COLOURED IS DARK SIDE TAINT. PROVE THAT WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS A DARK SIDE SHROUD 'LEFT BEHIND AFTER USING THE DARK SIDE'.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
That is due to geologicak properties that influence lightnign beyond its natural state.

When it is being summoned by the force it is in its natural, base state as cloud, sky and wind properties have not influenced its nature. Bullshit.

Lightning's "natural state"? Lightning is simply an electric discharge created by geological properties.

For lightning to have a current of more amperes than average the cloud merely needs to have accumulated a stronger than average electric field, which also makes the lightning bigger.

This is ignoring that Force lightning relies on what is effectively magic to power it, so its properties need not be the same anyway.

Stop this.

Darth Ray Park

EENENENNGHGHNGNHGNG!

Wrong!!

Lightning starts out naturally from geological properties sure but it is then changed by passing throughe earth wind and clouds and that is how it gets its charge. Lightning when summoned with the force skips all of those other changes.

Jinsoku Takai

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
EENENENNGHGHNGNHGNG!

Wrong!!

Lightning starts out naturally from geological properties sure but it is then changed by passing throughe earth wind and clouds and that is how it gets its charge. Lightning when summoned with the force skips all of those other changes.

Moron - it STILL passes through atmosphere before reaching its target.

Moreover, it's STILL manipulated by the Force user who is utilizing it.

NemeBro

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
EENENENNGHGHNGNHGNG!

Wrong!!

Lightning starts out naturally from geological properties sure but it is then changed by passing throughe earth wind and clouds and that is how it gets its charge. Lightning when summoned with the force skips all of those other changes. The most signifigant change is that air friction can in fact slow the bolt down.

Also, you are aware that an electric charge is in fact induced in the Earth for the leader strike, right?

Stop this. And above all, stop being a whiny pissant. I laughed IRL when you stalked Nephthys to the Game of Thrones thread.

What a little girl.

Nephthys

It's ok, I'm used to people stalking me.

Don't act as if I wasn't the thing that brought you to this section. You couldn't resist my sexy charm. he

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
BTEW Does the 'E' stand for 'effing'?

Darth Ray Park

lol

Stealth Moose

1. Bandon.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
15. Bandon

/thread.

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
1. Bandon.
.?
.?
.?
.?
.?
.?
.?
15. Profit

/thread. Fixed. As much as Bandon would agree with your assessment, His B*tchinness has always had an appreciation of proper financial management. Why do you think he used a soldier to destroy that console? Life insurance/work-related damage=huge write off.

Stealth Moose

Good point. I concede.

Arhael

Originally posted by axel_jovan
IMO:
Galen Marek (Force beast, beat Vader)

I would keep him as Sith. Although, at the end he joined rebellion cause, he grew up as Sith. Even in final battle he naturally utilized darkside and his rage.

Also, I would add Saba Sebatyne, toyed another Master in combat and defeated Abeloth by biting her head off.

Major Valerian

1. Johun.

The rest don't matter.

ares834

So you reveal your true colors. An infidel and a follower of absolute evil, a servant of the Johun.

And here I thought you were a devout believer in truth as your acatar and sig hint at. But it clear now that it is merely a cover. But I... I do not fear you. For I have prayed to Bandon to fill me with the dark spirit of Ragnos. And my prayers... they have been answered.

Nephthys

Wait, I don't understand our made up religion anymore. Are Bandon and Ragnos part of the same church or what? Because if so my post in the other thread isn't as antagonistic as I'd wanted it to be.

Major Valerian

Originally posted by ares834
So you reveal your true colors. An infidel and a follower of absolute evil, a servant of the Johun.

And here I thought you were a devout believer in truth as your acatar and sig hint at. But it clear now that it is merely a cover. But I... I do not fear you. For I have prayed to Bandon to fill me with the dark spirit of Ragnos. And my prayers... they have been answered.

A few years back, I hated Revan.

Now, as practically everything about his life and his power has been revelead, I declare myself an honest follower of his ways.

So fear not, my friend. I am your ally, not your enemy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wait, I don't understand our made up religion anymore. Are Bandon and Ragnos part of the same church or what? Because if so my post in the other thread isn't as antagonistic as I'd wanted it to be.

Johun and Bandon = Christians and Jews. Ragnos... Jehovah's witness?

Or shall we not make it parallel to our world and find another fun shit for our own religion?