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Both at their best who takes this and why?

Somebody gonna spanked, and it's not the guy in the green jumpsuit.

Franklin Richards at his best is on par with a Celestial. They consider him a future peer when he grows up. I'm not betting against power like that.

Franklin was able to contend with 3 Celestials simultaneously, and ultimately destroyed 2 of them. I'd say he's beyond Celestial-level.

Anyway, if we are assuming Ion was capable of the same feats ZH Parallax preformed (which is logical considering they shared the same power source), then he likely wins.

Ion.

Originally posted by Galan007
Franklin was able to contend with 3 Celestials simultaneously, and ultimately destroyed 2 of them. I'd say he's beyond Celestial-level.

Anyway, if we are assuming Ion was capable of the same feats ZH Parallax preformed (which is logical considering they shared the same power source), then he likely wins.

I think we have only seen the tip of the iceberg so far :
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/hickmanfrankie.png/

I agree. After Hickman's stint, my opinion will likely change. Even now though, Frank>Celestial-level, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
I agree. After Hickman's stint, my opinion will likely change. Even now though, Frank>Celestial-level, imo.

Well , lets hope that AvX doesn't drain him to the point that he fails to deliver on his promise !

Ion didnt have many showings did he? He repowered the battery, but thats about it, He was able to be everywhere at once but as for showings he didnt do much.

Originally posted by Galan007
Franklin was able to contend with 3 Celestials simultaneously, and ultimately destroyed 2 of them. I'd say he's beyond Celestial-level.

Anyway, if we are assuming Ion was capable of the same feats ZH Parallax preformed (which is logical considering they shared the same power source), then he likely wins. If you're applying Hallax's Zero Hour feats because of the same power, then he's a far cry from Celestial level.

Originally posted by TheMask
Ion didnt have many showings did he? He repowered the battery, but thats about it, He was able to be everywhere at once but as for showings he didnt do much. Correct, not a whole lot, but he could could exist everywhere and anywhen he chose, and alluded he had an even greater control of the universe and timestream than Parallax/Hal did, in his conversation with Hal.

Other than that, he created Oblivion with a link to a fraction of that power before ever obtaining it, and also created the heros to help him through the story, all by accident.

Originally posted by Juntai
If you're applying Hallax's Zero Hour feats because of the same power, then he's a far cry from Celestial level. I was specifically talking about Franklin being quite a bit more powerful than a Celestial, in response to a comment that his 'power-cap' was exclusively Celestial-level. I wasn't referring to Hal or Kyle's power with that particular statement.

Originally posted by TheMask
Ion didnt have many showings did he? He repowered the battery, but thats about it, He was able to be everywhere at once but as for showings he didnt do much. He had the same power source as Hal, and Hal destroyed the universe (with ease) and began creating his own universe in its place--all while fighting multiple heroes (inc. Corrigan-Spectre.) Ion should logically be on at least that level.

Originally posted by Galan007
I was specifically talking about Franklin being quite a bit more powerful than a Celestial, in response to a comment that his 'power-cap' was exclusively Celestial-level. I wasn't referring to Hal or Kyle's power with that particular statement. I understood, I was just adding my two cents about the feat-sharing, mostly.

Just to clarify, Oblivion creation was not due to the energies of Parallax found in the sun. Oblivion did not seek out those energies until after he reunited with Kyle.

Oblivion was created due to Kyle, given form from his Ring energy.

Kyle ring/battery was truly a special one. Hal had invested a large amount Oan energy in Kyle personal battery. His ring had no limitations. The investment of Oan energy was so grand, that its inner dimension replicated Oa. Nor did it need a Central battery, making his personal battery completely independent.

Originally posted by "Id"
Just to clarify, Oblivion creation was not due to the energies of Parallax found in the sun. Oblivion did not seek out those energies until reuniting with Kyle.

Oblivion was created due to Kyle, given form from his GL Ring.

Kyle ring/battery was truly a special one. Hal had invested a large amount Oan energy in Kyle personal battery. His ring had no limitations. The investment of Oan energy was so grand, that its inner dimension replicated Oa. Nor did it need a Central battery, making his personal battery completely independent. I'm pretty sure leading up to the ION storyline that Kyle started unknowingly tapping into the power Hal left behind. He saw major leaps and bounds through the course of that year.

It even started frequently reassuring us of how powerful he was, and was becoming. Started dropping in tidbits, often comparing him to Hal.

Then this came to a culmination when Kyle and Nero were both growing in power from it.

Originally posted by Juntai
I'm pretty sure leading up to the ION storyline that Kyle started unknowingly tapping into the power Hal left behind. He saw major leaps and bounds through the course of that year.


Yes but that was some time after Circle Fire. The Plot makes clear reference of when, and why Oblivion was created. And puts a time frame of when Oblivion began to seek out the Oan energies left int he Sun.

I'm pretty sure that obilivion was created by kyle tapping hallax's energies.

Originally posted by Juntai
Then this came to a culmination when Kyle and Nero were both growing in power from it.

Yes but I am only pointing out the origin of Oblivion. Which is due to Kyle battery/ring. Members tend to think that his creation is partially due to Kyle tapping into the Ion energies. Which is incorrect.

Originally posted by "Id"
Yes but I am only pointing out the origin of Oblivion. Which is due to Kyle battery/ring. Members tend to think that his creation is partially due to Kyle tapping into the Ion energies. Which is incorrect. So you think Kyle started randomly creating other entities based on abstract concepts, with full identities and personalities and histories and powers of their own beyond his own powerset, and in full spectrum of color- and also a being that can casually cause massive cosmic events, tearing open black holes and creating supernovas and such. . . . completely randomly, because he's just a boss like that with an awesome ring?

Hmm...

I actually think Franklin should win, and part of that is because, if I remember correctly (it's been at least 9 years since I read Zero Hour last), Parallax was manipulating temporal instabilities in the Universe caused by the previous Crisis and Extant's manipulations of the timelines, he didn't just outright re-write the DC universe, and he was stopped.

Originally posted by Juntai
So you think Kyle started randomly creating other entities based on abstract concepts, with full identities and personalities and histories and powers of their own beyond his own powerset, and in full spectrum of color- and also a being that can casually cause massive cosmic events, tearing open black holes and creating supernovas and such. . . . completely randomly, because he's just a boss like that with an awesome ring?

Short answer. Yes.

I mean that is what the plot stated, he was born from. Energies expelled from his power ring blah bah. And Oblivion did taunt Kyle, that he was completely clueless about his power ring, and just how powerful it was.

But I feel that you are not understanding that its just not the power ring. Kyle's battery was like a mini central battery. If you check back to GL 3D Special. Kyle reveals that just prior to "Final Night" when Hallax sacrificed himself to save the sun. Hallax was making routine stops to Kyle's battery. Investing large amounts of Oan energy....this was all prior to Circle of Fire. Which makes Kyle already special battery, um more special.

As for the topic.

If we are allowed to scale off Zero Hour Parallax. I would give Franklin good odds, or at the minimum give him a hell of a fight. I see both as high end abstracts, with comparable power.

They would both take out a good portion of the universe. Indeed it would be an epic fight.