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Coruscant, evening twilight - Palpatine's Office.

A ship of Sith origin parks itself in one of the docking bays of the Rotunda.

A lone figure makes it's way up the building's steps; heavy boots shaking the pavement slightly. T-thump, t-thtump.
Making it's way to the office of one Senator Palpatine, the figure is stopped by a pair of Senate Guard - who are then flung into the walls behind them with a bloody, sickening craaaa-aaack.

The muffled wet sound echoes and reverates across the walls of Palpatine's inner office.
The figure stops outside the doors. The doors whoosh open. And he makes his way inside.

Stopping inside Palpatine's office doorway, the figure says, "I am Bane, of the Sith."

Palpatine sits in his chair, seemingly unmoved by the rude entrance and looks back at the man apathetically.
"Oh, yes." He says simply.
Darth Bane glowers down upon the shorter, older man before him.
"In the name of the Rule of Two, I hearby claim the title of Dark Lord from you."
A faint smile touches Palpatine's lips.
"You can't kill me. I am more powerful than you."
Bane simply stared back at him and then spoke, his tone ominous.
"I am the Dark Lord of the Sith. And you, are no more."
A lightsaber snapped to life in Bane's hand and burned bright.

Palpatine spoke back, his voice an angry strangely-deep rasp. "I AM the Dark Lord.

"Not, yet."

Palpatine's voice became calm and resolute, and he began to rise out of his seat - a lightsaber slipping out of his robe and into his hand, igniting.
"So it's to the death, then?"

With a sudden inhuman scream he leapt and whirled through the air - to meet his opponant.


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1. Sabers

2. Force

3. All. Out.

The Chancellor's office dueling chamber in Jedi Academy is boss.

Also, Bane rapes Sidious. /thread.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The Chancellor's office dueling chamber in Jedi Academy is boss.

Also, Bane rapes Sidious. /thread.


Jesus Christ you're fast, Moose.

Vapaad Master of KMC.

I see ur shatterpointz!

Also, my internet is pretty fast.

I added a Poll to get an accurate gauge of Sidious-Bane's power in the duel according to everyone, so this should get interesting.

I believe I've made my thoughts on this clear over the last few days so I dunno if I need to bother to repost arguements, but I voted for Bane to win overalll. He's the superior combatant.

And it seems the poll agrees with me.

Awsum. I just went ahead and up-voted all of the Bane options.

How did you do that? :O

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Awsum. I just went ahead and up-voted all of the Bane options.





Well this should become interesting!

Originally posted by Nephthys
How did you do that? :O

It's a multiple-choice poll. So I could choose any or all.

I agree. With the shenanigans he was given, Bane is superior to Sidious at this point. DE Sidious I could see beating him.




Though I must say Battlemaster, you do tend to have a nice OP. A little bit of narration is enjoyable

Originally posted by Pwned
I agree. With the shenanigans he was given, Bane is superior to Sidious at this point. DE Sidious I could see beating him.




Though I must say Battlemaster, you do tend to have a nice OP. A little bit of narration is enjoyable


You are very much welcome, Sir.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
It's a multiple-choice poll. So I could choose any or all.

I-I never knew that.....

Neither did I...........



I am not alone though!

Sabers: Bane

Force: Bane

All Out: Bane

First people accept that Nihilus can beat Sidious and now Bane.

Oh kind Lord, you really didn't have to get me anything. It isn't even my birthday.

Originally posted by Nephthys
First people accept that Nihilus can beat Sidious and now Bane.

Oh kind Lord, you really didn't have to get me anything. It isn't even my birthday.






Common sense is taking over, Neph.

And you are fulfilling your destiny. devil

The Circle is complete.

When I got here I was but a learner. Now I am the Master.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Circle is complete.

When I got here I was but a learner. Now I am the Master.


- Only a Master of awesomeness, Darth.

I foresee you becoming greatest of all the Debators..

Originally posted by Nephthys
First people accept that Nihilus can beat Sidious and now Bane.

Oh kind Lord, you really didn't have to get me anything. It isn't even my birthday.

You hate Sidious, don't you?

Bane wins everything. Now that I've read DoE, I can't disagree.

Besides, Bane's f**king badass, so I don't care if he's that powerful.


Edit - Correction, I LIKE that he's become that powerful.

Waiting for some of the Sid's supporters to drop by.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Waiting for some of the Sid's supporters to drop by.

They've been surprisingly quiet.

Eh, don't care enough about RotS Palps to argue against multiple people. Plus I think the fight is actually quite close with Bane taking sabers and Palps taking force. All out is pretty much a split IMO.

You think RotS Sidious, not DE Sidious, can take it in the Force battle?

Really?

Sure. He's got some impressive force powers as seen in Plagueis.

Palpatine butchered 3 Jedi masters, whom had reputations of being among the orders greatest swordsmen, in seconds. His lightning is powerful enough to reduce a giant sith spawn to ash. As an apprentice, him and Plagueis took out several hundred Kursid warriors with nothing but force pikes (no force use)- while evading arrows, blows from axes and other weapons.

I say papa Palpatine wins.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Palpatine butchered 3 Jedi masters, whom had reputations of being among the orders greatest swordsmen, in seconds. His lightning is powerful enough to reduce a giant sith spawn to ash. As an apprentice, him and Plagueis took out several hundred Kursid warriors with nothing but force pikes (no force use)- while evading arrows, blows from axes and other weapons.

I say papa Palpatine wins.


What about Bane's Feats?

Originally posted by Battlemaster
What about Bane's Feats?


Not my job. I'm a "Sid's supporter"

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not my job. I'm a "Sid's supporter"


In that case, you should be in Primary school right now.

It's fun to play hookey, I know. But it'll catch up with you.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
In that case, you should be in Primary school right now.

It's fun to play hookey, I know. But it'll catch up with you.

Hookey was fun though.

BTW, in your own opinion- without Janus making your mind up for you, who do you think wins?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
whom had reputations


Anyway, Bane's top speed feat >>>>>>> RotS's top speed feat.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Hookey was fun though.

BTW, in your own opinion- without Janus making your mind up for you, who do you think wins?



I think that after this battle, Bane has a new girlfriend - albeit an old one.

Sidious was indeed not in his best form but it doesn't necessarily prove that Bane is above him in lightsaber combat.
After all he fought Windu and Yoda on par. Does it mean that both Windu and Yoda aren't that good that they can't easily defeat Sidious, who was out of practice for very long time? Don't think so.

Makes you wonder how powerful Ventress must be then, considering she had Fisto on the floor in almost as much time as Sidious.

Perhaps maybe it should be her fighting Bane.

Not that powerful as in book Sidious had to fend off against Windu at the same time and in film Fisto didn't block a single strike before dying.

But good idea about Ventress vs Bane thread. The fact that she fought both Kenobi and Anakin simultaneously on several occasions and even Force choked them makes her worthy.

But Yoda and Dooku utterly dominated her, in some cases, without even using sabers but just the Force. So my point was, there's no argument for her. It's arguing the specific to the general.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

Yes, Banes feat with the rain is beyond impressive, but it's not the same as utilizing it in an actual duel.

Considering that every drop could be like the movement of a tiny precise cut from an enemy blade - and that every surgical-cut is parried and blocked without fail for 10 minutes.

It speaks of incredible speed, timing, control, precision and most importantly, endurance during a duel.

I like how Sidious can mow down hundreds and move faster than Maul can blink, etc., but Mace Windu can front-kick and disarm him.

Mace Windu must be so fast he rips space-time and burns his flesh and robes into ash when he fights.

EDIT: Actually, for the record, I -hate- EU more than ever now. The lack of consistency, character jocking by various authors, and the need to outdo each other in Force feats/etc. is just smacking of poor writing and a mythos so grossly incoherent in form that it deserves a painful and swift death.

I'm going to go back to reading Tolkien, where most issues occur because of date mix ups or you know, the guy dying before it was fixed.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I like how Sidious can mow down hundreds and move faster than Maul can blink, etc., but Mace Windu can front-kick and disarm him.

Mace Windu must be so fast he rips space-time and burns his flesh and robes into ash when he fights.

EDIT: Actually, for the record, I -hate- EU more than ever now. The lack of consistency, character jocking by various authors, and the need to outdo each other in Force feats/etc. is just smacking of poor writing and a mythos so grossly incoherent in form that it deserves a painful and swift death.

I'm going to go back to reading Tolkien, where most issues occur because of date mix ups or you know, the guy dying before it was fixed.


Yeah - I noticed the last time Star Wars was cool was like 2007.

NJO had just gotten done and Dark Nest coming around, and Luke couldn't Instant Transmission around the galaxy yet.

Seems like ever since The Force Unleashed or as I like to call it "A bunch of Star Wars-newbie producers playing around in a liscensed sand box-super special Adventure", it seems like the quality and meaningfulness in Star Wars has gone down with every passing year; every passing book.

Star Wars is dead now - it's just like an animated corpse.

A friend of mine said that if he could join Lucas's company as a writer, he'd write books so shitty that it would sabotage the franchise and destroy it from the inside - just to save it, and allow it to rest in peace.

I feel so bad for Star Wars.

Sadly, the same thing is happening to the Dune franchise.

Yeah, but that sucked from the get-go.

Oh no he di'int!

Clearly Sandworms remind him of his tiny package and he feels emasculated in their presence.

Clearly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Clearly Sandworms remind him of his tiny package and he feels emasculated in their presence.

Clearly.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I like how Sidious can mow down hundreds and move faster than Maul can blink, etc., but Mace Windu can front-kick and disarm him.

Mace Windu must be so fast he rips space-time and burns his flesh and robes into ash when he fights.
I've always been dismissing speed feats as beautiful author portrayal. Obviously Force users are faster, than normal beings but to move faster, than blink of an eye?
Why then they struggle so much against mandalorians (even without beskar) and bounty hunters? Why then such pilots like Wedge Antilles and Jagged Fell fly as good as Jedi? And Yuuzhan Vong, Jedi didn't have speed advantage against them and had to rely on skill instead.

It's too bad Gid isn't here, or he could probably make a good case for Sidious.

Sabers - probably Sidious, idk
Force - Sidious
All Out - Sidious

It's confirmed - by the canon sources - that Sidious was most powerful Sith in history. So he takes it.

Originally posted by Zett
Sabers - probably Sidious, idk
Force - Sidious
All Out - Sidious

It's confirmed - by the canon sources - that Sidious was most powerful Sith in history. So he takes it.



Aren't those Canon sources based upon the Opinions of different people, though?

Some people in official sources may be of the opinion that Sidious is more powerful - but Bane's actual Feats, say the opposite.


I know George Lucas is one of those sources, but he's partially-retarded anyway, so I take it with a grain of salt.

Yoda also was one of those sources - but he's never had to fight Bane, so the experience of doing so is an unknown to him.

Realistically, Sidious was definitely the most powerful Sith Lord of his respective time period. But Bane would put him over his knee and rape him.

Bane died like, 123 years before Yoda was born.... Its weird to think of that, you know?



PoD takes place 1000 years before RotS, which is 23 years before RotJ. Yoda would be about 877 years old, leaving that time period. Its trippy, because the apprentice of Cognus was probably the Dark Lord of the Sith at that point, which is only 3 down from Bane. (Technically 2, because he accepted Cognus as an apprentice first, then Zannah trained her)

If they had lived in the same era, do you think they would have been lovers?

Originally posted by Battlemaster
You just don't like Dune because you're a redhead, and David Lynch's film offended you.
...they made a Dune movie?Originally posted by Nephthys
Clearly Sandworms remind him of his tiny package and he feels emasculated in their presence.

Clearly.


...it seemed like it was big enough for you, neph!

Originally posted by Battlemaster
It's too bad Gid isn't here, or he could probably make a good case for Sidious.
He already did.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t503589.html

Originally posted by axel_jovan
He already did.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t503589.html


It's just not the same without having him here in person.

Originally posted by Arhael
I've always been dismissing speed feats as beautiful author portrayal. Obviously Force users are faster, than normal beings but to move faster, than blink of an eye?
Why then they struggle so much against mandalorians (even without beskar) and bounty hunters? Why then such pilots like Wedge Antilles and Jagged Fell fly as good as Jedi? And Yuuzhan Vong, Jedi didn't have speed advantage against them and had to rely on skill instead.

Good points. Jedi speed was so inconsistently handled in the OT/PT that it never got the treatment it deserved, and confusion came about. Looking at the real-time fight between Obi-Wan and Fett, you'd think Jedi Knights were barely super human.

Dune was shiit...

I can't really argue for Sidious as I did not read material specifically dedicated to him, a lot of his feats are simply not well known.

However, I found a topic on another forum.

Here - person called Makoto_Shishio brings up a lot of less known feats and canon quotes about him. One of the most notable ones is that ancient Sith recognize him as the greatest and the strongest whoever lived.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Dune was shiit...


What was bad about it? You must be thinking of the Sci-Fi Miniseries.

I actually thought even that was pretty good.

And Children of Dune is a ****ing masterpiece.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
No, it is actually stated by an out-of-the-universe source that Sidious is indeed the most powerful.


That was from Darth Vader's perspective - a person who had never known or fought Bane, and likely had not even known Nihilus had ever existed.


Vader is making the simple and honest mistake of overestimating Sidious in terms of personal combat.

I hate to point this out, since I'm one of the least most apt people to try and twist a character's words in a ridiculous way - but he
might have been refering to Sidious as being the most politically powerful.

I know, I hate putting it that way. It seems stupid. But the other possibility of him being the most powerful Sith Lord ever known is just not true.

- Unless the galaxy had forgotten about Darth Nihilus - or even more likely - had never actually known of his existance in the first place.

That makes it more likely.

An even better question comes to mind: If OT Palpatine is more powerful than his RotS counterpart in the Force - then, is his OT counterpart capable of killing Bane reasonably well in a duel with said Force abilities?

That's a valid question right there.

Originally posted by Arhael
I can't really argue for Sidious as I did not read material specifically dedicated to him, a lot of his feats are simply not well known.

However, I found a topic on another forum.

Here - person called Makoto_Shishio brings up a lot of less known feats and canon quotes about him. One of the most notable ones is that ancient Sith recognize him as the greatest and the strongest whoever lived.





My God, man.

Honestly Battlemaster, I do not think that comes from Vader's perspective. I can see how you think so, as it really comes down to how you read it, but lines such as that always strike me as a blanket statement by the author.

Originally posted by Battlemaster



My God, man.
I read it myself. The guy from that post brings up a lot of quotes not mentioned in essay of Gideon.

"Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting."
-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72.

"Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned."
-- Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook

Empire's End, one of the Ancient Sith spirits on korriban: "He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes."

Essential Chronology: "the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave."

Also, that guy mentioned feats of him destroying 50 stormtroopers with single blast and 3 Prophets of the Sith, which I had no clue about before.

Sooooo.....

Which of these sources is created after TOR/Revan and after DoE Bane was envisioned?

Because if none of them, then that means they can be overwritten by newer canon. That kind of thing happens all the time.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
So, I was eating at Burger King one day, then I was mugged by a Bantha. Oh, and I am currently high. Just sayin' No, the added sentence after that. The "Vader could not hope to match the most powerful Sith Lord to ever live" That is the sentence I meant.

I read it as a statement by the author that Vader is not as powerful as the most powerful Sith Lord in history.


However, I know that was written quite a while ago, and that Sidious is not necessarily the most powerful. Top 3? Yes, most definately. I was just making a point, which you felt the need to attempt to insult me after.


That quote was just for the lulz.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
Out-of-universe. Not Vader's perspective... Vader's imaginings are out of universe?

They're not Vader's imaginings. The only thing Vader imagined was the power he could have if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule.


Edit - Besides, you'd really argue than somebody other than Nihilus or Vitiate can challenge DE Sidious? That pretty much clears things up.

That whole quote looks from Vader's perspective. And it looks an awful lot like a line from the novel Death Star, from Vader's thoughts.

Not really. It seems more like the author is actually agreeing with Vader's thoughts by writing that he alone could not hope to destroy Palpatine by himself. At least that's how I see it.


Originally posted by Major Valerian
Besides, you'd really argue than somebody other than Nihilus or Vitiate can challenge DE Sidious? That pretty much clears things up.

It seems more like the author writing a thought from Vader's perspective. Same with Yoda's thoughts on himself in RotS.

I've also lost the ability to equate grandiose Force powers with personal combative capabilities. Since when has a Force Storm bestowed fighting prowess?

Originally posted by Major Valerian
They're not Vader's imaginings. The only thing Vader imagined was the power he could have if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule.


Edit - Besides, you'd really argue than somebody other than Nihilus or Vitiate can challenge DE Sidious? That pretty much clears things up.
Kun, Bane, Sion, Raskta Lsu, Odan Urr, potentially Krayt. Malgus. Satele Shan. Edward Elric. Windu. Caedus. Mara Jade.

I'm willing to argue all of those (with the caveat that I haven't played TOR so I'll be copypasting for those characters).

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Sooooo.....

Which of these sources is created after TOR/Revan and after DoE Bane was envisioned?

Because if none of them, then that means they can be overwritten by newer canon. That kind of thing happens all the time.

Like I said earlier, some of these statements are up to how you read them.

If you need me to, next, I'll explain where babies come from.


You're making Ahrael look pretty smart right now.

You never learn do you?

I hoped that at expense of hating me you would learn your lesson and start treating other people normal way. Yet, you not only continued insulting people but, also, got me involved.

We had mutual rant, fine. I forgot, forgave and continued posting on forum like nothing happened. Is it really that hard for you to do the same?


None. But I don't see how newer canon can overwrite older in this case because both TOR and Bane stuff happened in completely different older time era. Canon statements about Palpatine being the most powerful cover all the Sith of the past, no matter how many new characters are created. Even ancient Sith recognized him as the greatest and the strongest.
It can be overwritten only by creating more powerful Sith, which lived after Palpatine.

In any case, to me it doesn't really matter. Other powerful Sith had their own advantages and uniqueness. I never say that one powerful Sith can stomp another because all of them have enormous feats and what we give more weight depends utterly on who we favor more.

Originally posted by Arhael
Canon statements about Palpatine being the most powerful cover all the Sith of the past, no matter how many new characters are created. So... inconsistencies are A-OK.


Yeah, f*ck that.

Statements made before the creation of characters with power that seriously questions Palpatine's status as the most powerful lose weight when such characters are introduced.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So... inconsistencies are A-OK.


Yeah, f*ck that.
What inconsistencies? Thinking that some older Sith are more powerful, than Palpatine, will always be only an opinion.

As will the opinion that Palpatine is more powerful than them despite older material being overridden.

It's never said to be overridden. We only assume it has been overridden. There hasn't been a single statement which said Vitiate, Bane, or Nihilus were indeed the most powerful ever, while on the other hand various sources, even if considered fallible, have stated this. Why would they do this? Why would writers write such things if they didn't believe it themselves? It makes no sense.

"Yeah, all those characters thought Sidious was the most powerful, but really, he wasn't"... It's not logical.

Even if it was Vader's opinion and not the author's, why would the author let us know Vader believes Sidious' to be the most powerful ever if he wasn't? Why would they make many characters think he was the most powerful if he wasn't?

IMO, they are suggesting that he is (if not stating it themselves) by making characters think that he was and by writing it in the New Essential Chronology. I mean, this is a credible chronology, created by the historical council of a galactic organization that had access to nearly unlimited resources... It's far from being an unsubstantiated or a baseless claim made by a fallible individual.

Why would they do this if it wasn't true? To make us think he was the most powerful and then go, "GOTCHA! He's really not"?

I seriously doubt it.


But that's just my opinion, anyway.

I don't get what material was overridden? TOR and Bane were put into unknown past of the EU without affecting older material with later era events in any way.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
It's never said to be overridden. We only assume it has been overridden. There hasn't been a single statement which said Vitiate, Bane, or Nihilus were indeed the most powerful ever, while on the other hand various sources, even if considered fallible, have stated this. Why would they do this? Why would writers write such things if they didn't believe it themselves? It makes no sense.

"Yeah, all those characters thought Sidious was the most powerful, but really, he wasn't"... It's not logical.

Even if it was Vader's opinion and not the author's, why would the author let us know Vader believes Sidious' to be the most powerful ever if he wasn't? Why would they make many characters think he was the most powerful if he wasn't?

IMO, they are suggesting that he is (if not stating it themselves) by making characters think that he was and by writing it in the New Essential Chronology. I mean, this is a credible chronology, created by the historical council of a galactic organization that had access to nearly unlimited resources... It's far from being an unsubstantiated or a baseless claim made by a fallible individual.

Why would they do this if it wasn't true? To make us think he was the most powerful and then go, "GOTCHA! He's really not"?

I seriously doubt it.


But that's just my opinion, anyway. A.) An official chronology designed within the universe is about as useful and trustworthy as any other character's opinion.

B.) An official chronology designed outside the universe is as subject to being overridden as any piece of source material.

C.) No official at LucasArts gives as much of a rat's ass about canon as any of us. They'll change, add, subtract and f*ck up whatever they wish in order to piece together something 'cool' that will sell.

But it's really not about as useful and trustworthy as any other character's opinion. It depends on who makes the opinion.

Other than that, I know a chronology designed outside the universe can be overridden, but since all of those characters who I believe can defeat different versions of Sidious (Bane, Vitiate, and Nihilus) came before Sidious, it doesn't really matter. It'd be overridden if they came after. That's why, thanks to their feats, we can only assume they'd be able to defeat Sidious and assume they are just as powerful.

This is reaching, bro. Why would the makers of KotOR write it so that people thought Revan was dead, if he wasn't? Basically, lines about Sidious coming from Vader tell us more about Vader than they do Sidious. I see a character utterly cowed, awestruck by the only person "on his side."

(Emphasis mine)

But that's only Vader, the New Essential Chronology is a lot different.

Anyway, that's why I said it's only my opinion. Nothing can really be done or argued in favour of Sidious without truly infallible evidence, I know that.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
Nothing can really be done or argued in favour of Sidious without truly infallible evidence, I know that.

This is the opposite!

There is no such thing as "truly infallible evidence" and it is only Gideon's specter that wants you to think that there is.

So I fell for it? Damn you, Gideon.

Ignore that. Stupid moment.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
A.) An official chronology designed within the universe is about as useful and trustworthy as any other character's opinion.

B.) An official chronology designed outside the universe is as subject to being overridden as any piece of source material.

C.) No official at LucasArts gives as much of a rat's ass about canon as any of us. They'll change, add, subtract and f*ck up whatever they wish in order to piece together something 'cool' that will sell.

Well said

Originally posted by Battlemaster
What was bad about it? You must be thinking of the Sci-Fi Miniseries.

I actually thought even that was pretty good.

And Children of Dune is a ****ing masterpiece.

Nah I was reffering to the film which i thought was pretty bad (just really boring and theatrical). I also didnt like Balderunenr and thought Prometheus was way better than it and Aliens.

Bladerunner is amazing. You must not have seen Director's Cut though.

Also, love Blax's anti-Ragnos rant.

Originally posted by ares834
Odan Urr? Rastka Lsu? Mara Jade? I can see the rest succesfully argued for but any of those three should be toast against RotS Sidious IMO.
I'll cede Raskta Lsu, but if Mara Jade came at Palpatine the way she did to Caedus, I think he'd go down hard.

Odan Urr has some impressive feats (that I'd have to go mining for, so I'll cede him too).

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Bladerunner is amazing. You must not have seen Director's Cut though.

Also, love Blax's anti-Ragnos rant. After watching Confused Matthew's review on it, I'm making a point of seeing the Director's Cut. It'll be my fourth time watching Blade Runner, so if I'm not intrigued this time 'round, I'm giving up.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

Mara won her fight with Caedus because she was a far more skilled and smarter fighter than he was, which is not an advantage she will have against Palpatine. One thing that Plagueis trained Palpatine well in, was how to kill. Palpatine is more vicious, more faster, and far more powerful than Mara is.
Yep. Sidious the politician is a much more skilled, tactically aware, and brutal fighter than Caedus, who is known for is poor pain tolerance and complete unfamiliarity with battlefield situations.

I commend your well thought out and exhaustively sourced argument, and simply cannot find a single chink in its armor.

I could condescendingly put it into pseudoformal notation; would that help?

If your ability to condescend is as rusty as your ability to debate, probably not.

I lol'd for real.

Bloodlusted, prepped Mara does not cede the advantages of being "more vicious, more faster, and far more powerful" than Sidious.

excellent



Either I read that wrong or you wrote it wrong, because that looks terribly much like you saying "bloodlusted, prepped Mara isn't more vicious, faster, and powerful than Sidious."

Originally posted by Col. Novine
excellent



Either I read that wrong or you wrote it wrong, because that looks terribly much like you saying "bloodlusted, prepped Mara isn't more vicious, faster, and powerful than Sidious."
"does not cede the advantage of being" = "continues to be" = "is"

Bloodlusted Mara is "more vicious, more faster, and far more powerful" than Sidious.

Danke.
And based on what?

More Vicious: (See cave fight)
More Faster: (See cave fight)
More Powerful: Given that this limits Palpatine to RotS feats, he's basically got Sithisis and RotS to draw from. Mara has her 3x force power bubble, cross-galaxy awareness (routine as a hand as well as her link w/Ben) and the whole manhandling a Skywalker descendant charism

your loss
Your fear is my ally
Your wish to protract your inevitable defeat amuses me but I am pleased that your a boy of your word

Originally posted by Col. Novine

your loss
Your fear is my ally
Your wish to protract your inevitable defeat amuses me but I am pleased that your a boy of your word

wutyou're as intimidating as bengay lubeyou've never beat me

exactly
Given that your anus is likely as large and hollowed as the cavern in which Caedus slayed Mara, your disregard for lube is unsurprising

Zampano would you like me to report to Ushgarak for intimadating you?

Originally posted by Col. Novine

exactly
Given that your anus is likely as large and hollowed as the cavern in which Caedus slayed Mara, your disregard for lube is unsurprising


For all that you parade pictures of your "girlfriend" around online, you're awfully interested in the anuses (anii?) of the guys around youWould Neph appreciate you coming on to me like this?I'm not your type (my voice has dropped, bro)

you and I have both posted pictures online of attractive people but the only relevant difference is I happen to be dating one whereas....
Neph and I are not committed
Dropping from soprano to tenor means you're still in my wheelhouse

Originally posted by Col. Novine

you and I have both posted pictures online of attractive people but the only relevant difference is I happen to be dating one whereas....
Neph and I are not committed
Dropping from soprano to tenor means you're still in my wheelhouse

The pictures of myself were very attractive, thank you!...whereas you have to put up pictures where proximity to attractive features might confuse the viewer into thinking you possess such qualities yourselfNeph is going to have you screaming the next time he sees you (you're being a very bad boy!)If you have to pretend that you're the one calling the shots w/r/t your users, I'm embarrassed for you!(That means you're choosing every DP and Bearded-Lady fetishist that uses you )

Your interest in my sex life is titillating...
...Do you think of me when you're with him?

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2012/05/Avengers-Hulk-Loki-1337008016.gif

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2012/05/Avengers-Hulk-Loki-1337008016.gif

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2012/05/Avengers-Hulk-Loki-1337008016.gif

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2012/05/Avengers-Hulk-Loki-1337008016.gif

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2012/05/Avengers-Hulk-Loki-1337008016.gif

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2012/05/Avengers-Hulk-Loki-1337008016.gif

I'm going to assume I'm the green muscular fellow and you're the dainty gentleman in my hand?

Honestly, that's what I'd imagine the bf would do to you if you ever met.
(In an intellectual sense, of course.)
((But also a physical sense))

Inmates, Col.? You're aware that outside of the bizarre cult that's been using you as a disposable wet-wipe it is customary to refer to one's peers as "friends"
or "acquaintances"
or, in Kentucky,"cousins."

Confronting Galen Marek (who could move star destroyers) with Force alone without lightsaber pretty much showed that Sidious' power is unquestionable. Also, it would make perfect sense, if Marek survived that lightning explosion as he was younger, fitter and more durable, while Sidious was very old, frail and decaying from his own power. Yet, Sidious survived and stud up like nothing happened, while Marek died.


I wouldn't downgrade Caedus that much. He showed his own skill and smartness as much as her and that's why he won. She put stone avalanche on top of him, yet, he still managed to survive the fight. Also, his skill, smartness and versatility ones again was proven superior during fight with unrestrained Luke.

I, also, side with opinion that Mara has a chance against Palpatine. I agree that she is nowhere near as powerful as Palpatine but same is true for Luke and Windu who managed to defeat him in lightsaber combat. Also, there is plenty of evidence that weaker Force users can successfully defend against Force attacks of more powerful ones. So, if Mara can manage to engage with him in lightsaber combat, that will be her best chance.

@ZampanoScarecrow:


or, in your case: figments
friends, acquaintances, and cousins aren't mutually exclusive




Damn it, Arhael. We were kindly insulting one another before you rudely intervened with your debate

I don't get, why debates about common interest even need to result in insults...

Originally posted by Col. Novine
@ZampanoScarecrow:


or, in your case: figments
friends, acquaintances, and cousins aren't mutually exclusive



it's true that only in my imagination have I met anyone highly skilled, profoundly intelligent, or jaw-droppingly attractive enough to qualify as my "peer."
In Kentucky, I imagine that every friend or acquaintance must be a cousin
I'm calling you inbred, ok?

Originally posted by Arhael
I don't get, why debates about common interest even need to result in insults...

Yeh I know.

This guys has been here not even 7 hours and he has targeted zampano who is one of nicest and most popular memebrs here and been hounding him persisnetly with insults.

I report Ushgarak so he should be here soon to hand out temporary warning.

Arhael
I don't get, why debates about common interest even need to result in insults...

We may or may not be kidding and this may or may not be all in the name of good fun.

@Scarecrow:

given your recreational homosexual proclivities, I imagine you drop your jaw quite a bit.
i am implying you provide oral sex to other men and this act, conducted by one homosexual man to another, should be taken as an insult

careful, that may get Scarecrow himself into trouble as a willing participant in this banter
In light of that, I vouch for Scarecrow's conduct. He was clearly only kidding.

Originally posted by Col. Novine
We may or may not be kidding and this may or may not be all in the name of good fun.
He withdrew from beginning debate, yet, you kept him by starting throwing insults.

May or may not is irrelevant as others will think you are stupid.

You may or may not care about opinions of others about you. But, if you care, then it is weird as you only gain negative reputation. And if you don't, then why participating in this forum at all?

Originally posted by Col. Novine
We may or may not be kidding and this may or may not be all in the name of good fun.

@Scarecrow:

given your recreational homosexual proclivities, I imagine you drop your jaw quite a bit.
i am implying you provide oral sex to other men and this act, conducted by one homosexual man to another, should be taken as an insult


No, you are the one whose sexual proclivities are worthy of social disapproval and public ostracism. Your penchant for incestuous rendezvous, coupled with your sexual preference for prepubescent mammals of multiple species is shameful. Bizarre is the word to describe how your likes and turn-ons are fundamentally atypical.http://images.wikia.com/swfanon/images/c/c1/Insidious_Smile.jpg

Originally posted by Arhael
He withdrew from beginning debate, yet, you kept him by starting throwing insults.

May or may not is irrelevant as others will think you are stupid.

You may or may not care about opinions of others about you. But, if you care, then it is weird as you only gain negative reputation. And if you don't, then why participating in this forum at all?



You are taking this far too seriously.
Zamp and I are joking, this is nothing new between him and I. He promised a proper response to the debate by Friday in a new thread.

I told you he is one of most popular members bro. You shiuld have tried trolling someone else who epople dont like as much like NemeBro.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Perhaps you should let someone else handle this. Your doing a very poor job.


Well, I appreciate you getting up off the floor, and tearing yourself away from your coloring-books to tell me this.




Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

Vader's line's in ESB has nothing to do with whether or not Sidious being the most powerful comes from Vader's opinion or not.



If Canonically from an in-universe historical-standpoint, Sidious was supposed to be the most powerful Sith Lord ever known, then Vader would likely know his Sith history and would indeed know his Master as the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

Add to the fact that his Master had also managed to take down the Republic and annihilate the Jedi Order, as well as defeat Grandmaster Yoda.

Vader knew, and his lines in ESB reference this somewhat subtly, that his Master was the most powerful Sith Lord that history knew.




Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

I can see why Pwned would think the statement is out-of-universe. It does seem like the author has his mind made up about Sidious being the most powerful sith.



Because for all intents and purposes - according to what history remembers - he is.




Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

For example, if you read "Bob was a foreign exchange student in Africa. There, he stayed with a very welcoming family and became best friends with one of the sons. At night Bob imagined what it would be like to take his best friends place and grow up in a black family."Wouldn't you automatically assume that the family was black? Or would you assume that it's only in Bob's imagination that they were black?



Vader already knew his Master was the most powerful according to what history could remember. It likely wouldn't remember Nihilus anyway, since he was essentially a rogue Sith Lord who kept a low-profile even when he was "alive", and after he died, there isn't good evidence to suggest the Jedi Order (much less the Republic) knew of, or could remember his existence, afterwards.




Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

It's easy to get confused.



Especially for you.




Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

Also, I find it silly that you feel the need to insult others when you can't even form an opinion on your own. You need SM's approval.



Stealth Moose is as cool as the other side of the pillow, and besides, alot of the other Debators on here who are extremely skilled and adept usually have similar opinions to mine, anyway. It's not unusual.




Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

I think it's them who should be laughing at you.


I think your unfinished coloring-books are calling to you..

They beckon and besides, I think your mom just left a flesh plate of hot goey chocolate cookies there - you better go investigate.

Originally posted by Arhael
You never learn do you?

I hoped that at expense of hating me you would learn your lesson and start treating other people normal way. Yet, you not only continued insulting people but, also, got me involved.

We had mutual rant, fine. I forgot, forgave and continued posting on forum like nothing happened. Is it really that hard for you to do the same?



That'll do, Pig. That'll do.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Bladerunner is amazing. You must not have seen Director's Cut though.

Also, love Blax's anti-Ragnos rant.



Bladerunner rocks.

I lol'd at Zamp vs. Gideon.


I also lol'd at the fact that Arhael and Park thought they were genuinely insulting each other and shit.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
I told you he is one of most popular members bro. You shiuld have tried trolling someone else who epople dont like as much like NemeBro. I find it infinitely amusing that I have been posting here for like a week and I am already more highly regarded than you could ever hope to be.

Also I'm smarter.

I hate what this place has become.

But I love it so.

Winner, Bane.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
alot of the other Debators on here are extremely skilled and adept because they usually have similar opinions to mine, anyway.

Fixed

Originally posted by NemeBro
I find it infinitely amusing that I have been posting here for like a week and I am already more highly regarded than you could ever hope to be.

Also I'm smarter.

Nephthys and Re: Blaxican are only people who know you bro.estahuh

Your knowledge of Star Wars ias at best... pedestrian.

You know nothing of post RotJ lore bro.