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Each fighter has faced off against Exar Kun - and each fighter won, narrowly.


Now, Bane of the Sith and Plagueis the Wise - will battle to the death, to see who of either will face off against their next opponant in the Sith Food Chain.

They meet in the middle of the central floor of the Korriban Sith Temple just beyond the Valley of the Dark Lords.

Their fight is bloodlusted and to the Death.

When they meet - they don't say a word - they both know what this means.

Starting Distance:10 Feet Apart.

Setting:http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/8480ca57.jpg
http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/026fe203.png

I think Bane is the better swordsman, but I see Plagueis having the edge in Force ability..

Darth Bane killed his (blade) master in a dual to the death.

Darth Plagueis killed his master via trickery when his master was completely unprepared.

Im going with Dessel here

Hmm, what about Force abilities, though?

I'm not sure Bane can hang with Plagueis in that department - which had more impressive Force Feats?

Bane was more like powerful combatant, than offensive Force user. His apprentice showed better command in the Force during their fight and that's why she won. It sort of fulfilled the idea of the Rule of Two that more powerful replaces weaker, even though she was weaker lightsaber combatant.

Originally posted by Arhael
Bane was more like powerful combatant, than offensive Force user. His apprentice showed better command in the Force during their fight and that's why she won. It sort of fulfilled the idea of the Rule of Two that more powerful replaces weaker, even though she was weaker lightsaber combatant.

lol..

plagueis

After some deliberation, I see Plagueis taking this very narrowly.

Bane bites his Plagueis finger off

I see Plagueis winning this duel. He is superior in the force, he just has to manipulate Bane's midichlorians and then Bane will be his next experiment. Also you have to take into account that Sidious c. TPM had to take Plagueis out in his sleep, which implys that he did not fancy his chances in a duel against his master.

Could somebody post Plagueis's feats? I am not up to date with the likes of him and Vitiate.

In terms of lightsaber prowess he's extremely strong and fast. He can punch through body armor with his bare hands while near death and can move fast enough to be a blur to a medical droids scanners.

In terms of the Force he is also extremely powerful, able to 'atomise' beings with the Force and manipulate the midicholians themselves to kill people.

He's also stated that he believes that he's the most powerful Sith Lord ever, but everyone thinks that so wgaf.

Personally i see him as a worthy adversary of Bane's, which is why I've abstained from commenting on the thread until now.

This is what I'm most interested in? How does he do this? Like, can he do it in combat or does he need to sit down and concentrate to do it? And can he do stuff like increase his own count and remove other people's? Also is there any defence?

He's never done it in combat, but theres no known defense. I don't really know if its applicable here though.

If he can he should realistically be able to defeat anybody really, except people that can speed blitz him, or someone like Nihilus who doesn't have them.

If he tries it on Nihilus, Nihilus will eat him.

Originally posted by Master_Galen
I see Plagueis winning this duel. He is superior in the force, he just has to manipulate Bane's midichlorians and then Bane will be his next experiment. Also you have to take into account that Sidious c. TPM had to take Plagueis out in his sleep, which implys that he did not fancy his chances in a duel against his master.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In terms of lightsaber prowess he's extremely strong and fast. He can punch through body armor with his bare hands while near death and can move fast enough to be a blur to a medical droids scanners.

In terms of the Force he is also extremely powerful, able to 'atomise' beings with the Force and manipulate the midicholians themselves to kill people.

He's also stated that he believes that he's the most powerful Sith Lord ever, but everyone thinks that so wgaf.

Personally i see him as a worthy adversary of Bane's, which is why I've abstained from commenting on the thread until now.


Well said, Gentlemen. I think we know who wins this.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Well said, Gentlemen. I think we know who wins this. Yep, Bane.

Originally posted by Pwned
Yep, Bane.

Really? How?

I did say that Plagueis was a worthy adversary, not a superior one.

Bane is still a titanic beast of a combatant.

If Plagueis can't use his midi-chlorian trick, Bane should win. Hasn't Bane actually already done pretty much every feat that was listed for Plagueis? He has better speed feats, he's the physically stronger guy, and he has also atomised people hasnt he? Plus he has done much more so I don't know why you would say Plagueis is better if he can't use the midis in combat.

Originally posted by Master_Galen
I see Plagueis winning this duel. He is superior in the force, he just has to manipulate Bane's midichlorians and then Bane will be his next experiment.

Prove he can do this in combat?

Also you have to take into account that Sidious c. TPM had to take Plagueis out in his sleep, which implys that he did not fancy his chances in a duel against his master.

And? Sidious c. TPM isn't particularly powerful, and taking him out in his sleep is simply smarter no matter how they stack up against eachother than doing it in real confrontation. It doesn't mean he couldn't.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
If Plagueis can't use his midi-chlorian trick, Bane should win. Hasn't Bane actually already done pretty much every feat that was listed for Plagueis? He has better speed feats, he's the physically stronger guy, and he has also atomised people hasnt he? Plus he has done much more so I don't know why you would say Plagueis is better if he can't use the midis in combat.

Yeah pretty much, although ironically enough despite being 7 ft tall and a mountain of muscle he doesn't actually have that many strength feats. He's never punched through a dudes armor and chest before, thats for sure.

I think that's because Jedis/Siths rarely have use for it. With access to a lightsaber, telikenisis and other force powers, they are rarely in positions where they really need to show off or use their physical strength. They need to damage someone or something, they use their lightsaber or destructive force powers. Need to lift something, TK.

So I'd usually go with the bigger, physically stronger guy, as long as the gap in force powers isn't massive as you cant really expect everyone to have strength feats, even when they probably are stronger than someone who does.

So you think Bane is physically stronger because you want him to be? Not how it works. Bane is a phsycial beast, but there is a big difference between that and pucnhing through armor.

It is not because I want it bro. Read my post again please. If Bane is the physically stronger guy, is probably more powerful in the Force, then why wouldn't his overall strength be superior? You can ask for strength feats, but as I showed, that's very unreasonable. You can't really expect a lot of weight lifting or power punching feats from people who can move objects with their mind and cut through anything with a laser sword. That isn't how it should work.

It is though. We rely on feats not supposition .

We can't have feats for everything though, and strength feats will always be hard to come by. Obviously physical strength is very important for how powerful your atatcks with a lightsaber are, for example it is reason Kas'im recommended that Bane use Djem So, and there are numerous times where it is somebody's physical strength that is talked about, or for example Anakin's robotic arm. We are never given any indication that the Force plays that big a factor there. If we saw padawan lift a Jedi starfighter with ease should we assume that he is stronger than Bane just because we haven't seen Bane lift anything that heavy?

Yes, lifting a starfighter is insane. Anyway... Quite simply Bane never displayed super strength like Plageuis did so there is no reason to assume Bane has it. As for strength feats, they do exist. Vader has many, Anakin has several, Galen Marek has some, etc...

Anakin/Vader has appeared in a thousand comics, they use every opportunity to get Galen to do something flashy or over the top, someone who only appears in three books on the other hand, that kind of feat will be harder to come by.

Replace Starfighter with Durasteel 24 seater table.

I place far more value on speed feats than strength feats and Bane has laods of them.

Bane has mastered the 7 forms, and knows how to beat people who use Jar'Kai/Double Blades. Plagueis is just outmatched in sabers, tbh.

When they use the Force, I see it being about even. How strong in Plagueis' lightning? We know Bane's can turn an armored man into ash as of RoT (without Orbalisk power) which means that by DoE he has some insane lightning feats. He has the cocoon of energy that he can pull up before a saber hits him, but after the swing was started, which causes an explosion, which admittedly did not kill either of them, it still threw Zannah about 30 feet. He also has the speed feats from the rain scene and from his fight with Zannah, where the two were hardly even a blur, nearly moving faster than the Huntress could see, and he was pwning her face in. And she is a master of multiple forms as well. Djem So vs Soresu, normally Soresu would win, but Bane just overwhelmed her.

He can crack ribs with a kick, which is also insanely hard. (Zannah fight, DoE, on Ambria, he cracked 3 ribs and she flew back 15 feet)

BTW, I gave Bane the win in sabers.

Originally posted by ares834
BTW, I gave Bane the win in sabers.

I also gave the win to Bane for sabers, after all Bane did learn every move that Kas'im knows (minus double blade).

I give Bane the win overall. Granted Plagueis will probably take one or two fights, he just isn't up to snuff.

Who gave Plagueis all those votes for better stats?

I gave him force and all out.

Originally posted by ares834
I gave him force and all out.

Same here.

If Plagueis wins Force and All Out - I see him beating Bane.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
If Plagueis wins Force and All Out - I see him beating Bane.

He would, but in a pure saber duel I can't see Bane losing.

So Plagueis is declared the all-out winner, then?

According to what? Bane has much better feats, given that Plagueis' midi-chlroian trick can't even be used in combat.

Apparently, there is a consensus that Plagueis wins the Force and All-out aspect of combat.

Wallabies! Wallabies EVERYWHERE! They are overrunning our position sir! We can't hold them!
Fall back to the second ring! FALL BACK!
But sir, the avocados took the second ring fifteen minutes ago!
Oh crap! Well, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em,



Apparently I just get to chime in and be ignored. Sweeeeeeeet.

Really I haven't seen a single posting saying why Plagueis wins.

Originally posted by Pwned
Really I haven't seen a single posting saying why Plagueis wins.

Darth Plagueis the Wise Wins. Fatality.

Originally posted by Pwned
Really I haven't seen a single posting saying why Plagueis wins.

Agreed.

Plagueis has a superior grasp of the force, you can see this in the way he has experimented with the midchlorians, also he has some strength feats like puching through armor, speed feats during duel vs Venamis and was a master sith sorceror/alchemist. As we have learned in Banes duel vs Zannah he does not fare well against sith sorcery.

I view that more as being a great scientist than practitioner of the Force. He understood that aspect of biology very well and could perform experiments with it. I don't see it as having anything to do with his grasp of the Force. Bane's combat feats are superior imo and Zannah was incredibly powerful (possibly one of the greatest potentials ever) as well as being just a practitioner of sorcery. He didn't fare well against her sorcery, and wasn't she being amped by Ambria or something?

Actually, Plagueis admits to being weak in sorcery, but he also believed that he could have eventually mastered anything in the force by asserting his will over it.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
I view that more as being a great scientist than practitioner of the Force. He understood that aspect of biology very well and could perform experiments with it. I don't see it as having anything to do with his grasp of the Force. Bane's combat feats are superior imo and Zannah was incredibly powerful (possibly one of the greatest potentials ever) as well as being just a practitioner of sorcery. He didn't fare well against her sorcery, and wasn't she being amped by Ambria or something?

Ambria didn't aid either one of them IIRC because the darkside energy had all been contained within the lake. It was simply that the sorcery couldn't be countered by any physical attack and Bane was not versed enough in it to overcome it through the force.

Anyway, I don't see any indication that Plagueis would have been capable of taking Bane with sabers noting that he held his own against Kas'im and ended the female jedi master and Farfalla as well as his skill shown during the rainstorm, a point at which he was already developing tremors within his body.

As to all out I honestly don't know enough about Plag to really comment on him, but I know it would take a great user to overcome Bane's ridiculous lightning, TK, and force wave attacks.

What are Bane's greatest speed feats besides just being able to move his lightsaber really really really fast. Plagueis can move his entire body as a blur.

Bane does have more destructive lightning though.

I believe that even during training at the Sith Temple before Bane goes on his quest off-world some of his strikes and movements were fast enough that the students watching weren't even sure what exactly how he had landed the blow or something to that effect.

The big problem is that we can't actually pit them against each other but for what it's worth Bane went toe-to-toe with both the Sith and Jedi saber practitioners considered to be two of the best ever to use blades and in the case with Farfalla was fighting both him and the female Master duelist at the same time. He did of course have his Orbelisk armor at the time though so take that for what it's worth.

Again my knowledge of Plag is incomplete but considering that Palpatine saw fit to poison him and not face him outright in battle perhaps attests to his skills.

When Bane was fighting Zannah, both of them were blurs to the Huntress.

Bane did not show a weakness to sorcery, he showed it could be used on him. Thing is, he studied how to defend against it, and showed he can. It will take him out of the fight for maybe a minute, cause no harm, and Plagueis can't attack him during that time because he has to keep up the illusion.

Punching through armor doesn't matter if you can't hit them. Remember, any rain drops that got past Bane's saber he dodged.

But really, Plagueis does not seem to have that many combat feats over Bane. Experimenting with midichlorians doesn't really matter, because
A) In Bane's time, I doubt they had been discovered.
B) He can't do that in the middle of a fight in any meaningful way
3) Bane showed extreme precision when he made his Holocron. He was moving microfilaments into exact positions and all within a short timeframe.

Looking into it, it seems Bane could have used that Death Field he used on Prakith anywhere. It will rapidly exhaust him, but it kills Plagueis.

Originally posted by Pwned
Punching through armor doesn't matter if you can't hit them. Remember, any rain drops that got past Bane's saber he dodged.

The reason I asked for more of Bane's speed feats, was not to down-grade his rainstorm feat, but because it is silly to assume that Bane cannot be touched because he can blocked every rain drop thats falling towards him. If we use that kinda logic for a lightsaber duel then master Kolar and master Tiin should have been able to at least react to Sidious before being slaughtered, seeing how they can each block dozens of blaster bolts. But sense Bane can also move his body as a blur (I'll take your word for now), then he may be able to take Plagueis in a duel.

I'll get back to the rest maybe later tonight.

im pretty sure the battle between Bane and Zannah was a blur to the newbie

Originally posted by Pwned

A) In Bane's time, I doubt they had been discovered.


Pretty good argument but this part is irrelevant. We're assuming that both have whatever attributes they are gifted with unless stated by the OP or unless their ability is location dependent. Plagueis has been able to study them so we'll assume whatever skills he has in interacting with them are intact for the duel.

That said, everything presented I still think the battle favors Bane, but again I'd really like to see more about Plag presented so that I can say for sure one way or the other.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
That said, everything presented I still think the battle favors Bane, but again I'd really like to see more about Plag presented so that I can say for sure one way or the other.

Darth Plag, I like it.

Originally posted by Pwned
Looking into it, it seems Bane could have used that Death Field he used on Prakith anywhere. It will rapidly exhaust him, but it kills Plagueis.

Based on?

The sentence, "He drew upon the energy of the temple to create a field of death that would normally exhaust him very rapidly"

(Paraphrased slightly due to my current lack of a book on hand)

That implies that he can do it elsewhere, but not for very long.

Originally posted by Pwned
The sentence, "He drew upon the energy of the temple to create a field of death that would normally exhaust him very rapidly"

(Paraphrased slightly due to my current lack of a book on hand)

That implies that he can do it elsewhere, but not for very long.

That is extremely paraphrased. This is the full passage, pardon the truncated sentences, I copied it straight from my PDF copy:



The implication is that even aided by the focusing energies of the temple, it would have continued to exhaust Bane had he not consumed the essences of his dying enemies. There is nothing that mentions his ability to replicate this feat elsewhere.

Thanks for posting that, like I said, I don't have my book on hand.


To me, it implies that he had to draw upon the energy in the temple or it would have quickly exhausted him. Consuming their essence was what allowed him to keep it up for as long as he did.

Then you're reading it wrong. The "however" refers to him sucking up the life essence of the dying not the temple.

Edit: Ah, I see what you are saying. It's impossible to say whether he could use it without the temple or not.

If he can, there is no way possible I see Plagueis winning. If he can't, then Bane still takes it, but by a much narrower margin.

Why? We don't know how effective it would be against a force user. Truthfully, I feel Bane has a far better chance based on his saber skills and other powers rather than this one-off power.

If the ability was truly that powerful then he would have used it against Zannah.

He didn't use it against Zannah due to PIS, obviously.



But really, how could Plagueis win this? I am not so well versed in his abilities, and I am not going to use Wookie as a know-all perfect-reliability source.

Originally posted by Pwned
Thanks for posting that, like I said, I don't have my book on hand.


To me, it implies that he had to draw upon the energy in the temple or it would have quickly exhausted him. Consuming their essence was what allowed him to keep it up for as long as he did.

Consuming the essence of Malevolence cultists is what the text identifies as enabling Bane to continue the attack; he's already drawing on the temple's energies when he muses that the effort would have quickly exhausted him, indicating that even drawing on such a nexus, his ability to apply the attack would have dwindled quickly had it not been for the presence of the aforementioned cultists. With that in mind, I see no reason to conclude he could conjure the technique elsewhere, particularly since he fails to wield it against Zannah (as Nephthys notes). Moreover, as ares reminded us, the Malevolence cultists were non-Force sensitives: there's no reason to assume the attack, even if Bane could wield it bereft of a dark side nexus and/or fodder for him to consume, would be remotely effective against a trained Force user, particularly one of Plagueis's caliber.

Actually, there is a way to tell if it would work.


Plagueis is roughly on par with Bane, that is the consensus, correct? As the passage describes, it is, "A field of pure dark side energy" the same as Zannah's tentacles, just in a different form, with a different way of utilizing this particular power/skill. That means that it would work on just about anybody, as the tentacles showed to be insanely powerful creations. Maybe I am just trying to make Bane sound cooler, but thats how it seems to me. Both appear to be the very similiar, especially in how they are carried out.

Though I grant it may only be possible for him to do it on a nexus, as with Zannah and the tentacles. I can accept that. Plagueis still loses.

Given the almost meditative-level of concentration Bane utilized to kill mundane cultists, that is a bold claim to make. His adversary is a highly trained and extremely powerful Force user who would be able to draw upon the same energies that linger in the Valley.

Meditative-level of concentration to create a field of dark side energy that will instantly kill anything that touches it. Yeah, thats so easy.

Seriously, nobody has said why Plagueis wins, so therefore, with arguments supporting Bane, and none Plagueis, Bane logically wins.

Actually no, if there is no opposing argument, then the argument that has been presented is typically declared the winner, on basis that there is no opposition to their claims.



My "butchered paraphrasing" that I did from a 1 1/2 month memory, without my book on hand to actually type it out. You can hardly fault somebody for not reading a book in a while.

Actually, most of the Malevolence cult was Force sensitive, thats why they were there. They were just barely more sensitive than normal people, and likely would never have been accepted into any established order (such as Jedi or Sith) but they were sensitive.

Like I said, there has been no argument in favor of Plagueis. Therefore, his actions are up to whatever the opposing argument sets out. If I think that he is going to attack Bane with a lightsaber, which I will remind you is approximately 1 1/4-1/2 meter in length counting hilt, and Bane throws up a 10 meter field of pure dark side energy that will kill him, then Plagueis will die. Nobody has set any other course of action for him.

Oh, and I am fairly certain that, "It never was explicitly used against somebody of this caliber, so it can't be said to work on them" is either a logical fallacy or plain stupid. Either or.

In other words both showed something over the top. Both didn't fight anyone of significant caliber to make at least relative comparisons in power. So it's 50/50.
Unless there is a training session between Plagueis and already prime Sidious, where Plagueis overpowers him with lightsaber or the Force or at least equals.

Well considering how there has been absolutely nothign said about Plagueis' Force abilities that he has shown in the middle of a fight, then I have to assume an attack with what I do know he does. Use a lightsaber.

Considering how their debate was never started, there was no winner. There was no debate.

"Doesn't work at all" and, "They have shown no defense against such a technique" is different. If Plagueis can atomize Bane as simply as waving his hand, then he wins. But I want the passage that he does so to anybody.

Thank you, now that I have somebody saying Plagueis wins and WHY, then it matters.


As to atomizing him, Bane hasn't shown any method of defending against it. But it did require him to, "Stop to conjure" it. While Bane did not immediately create the aura, I would say their insta-kills are roughly the same time frame to make, as Plagueis barely paused, and Bane, while having to "gather strength" did not seem to take much time due to the onrushing cultists.

Bane has shown to utilize the Force in ways to force his opponent into doing what he wants, and moving where he wants. In his fight with Zannah in the Stone Prison, he sent out carefully measured bursts of lightning to force her where he wanted her. Over the trilogy, he has also shown a remarkable talent for using the Force defensively, as he has a near-impenetrable "shield" that he uses against TK. His lightning also tears through almost any "shild" as well, with it being said to be a million volts.
He also has shown a resilience to sorcery, in that Zannah could not use it to take him out of the fight permanently, only for a short period. Bane can create a cocoon of purple energy which will shield him from an attack, which then proceeds to explode. He also has one of the highest tolerances for pain ever shown, if not THE highest, due to living with Orbalisks for a decade.

You've confused a sarcastic remark that exposed the flaws in your argument for a literal claim as though I have a stake in this. I do not believe Plagueis would be able to atomize a Force user of Bane's pedigree, especially if Bane is prepared and has erected shields.



You have no basis for making such a comparison and its conclusions are faulty. Bane deactivated his lightsaber and stood perfectly still to channel his powers; Plagueis "stopped" breaking necks and crushing windpipes to conjure the Force wave. There is no indication that Plagueis had to act with the same level of concentration and focus that Bane did. More importantly, Plagueis managed to do all of this at a period of intense physical disadvantage: a double case of cardiac arrest and severe blood loss. At full health, preparation, and with access to a dark side nexus, the attack may very well be more potent and more effortless.

But it doesn't matter, as I don't believe Bane would just fall victim to atomization.



I'm not interested in whether or not Bane could beat Plagueis, you can find your opponent elsewhere. I'm here simply to correct your errors, the outcome of this thread is inconsequential.

Yeah, I still have to say I'm not reading anything that gives me a clear sense of what Plag can do against another high-level Force user in combat. The example above was similar to Bane's at the temple.

As of now my main weight for any of Plagueis skills again goes to the fact that Sidious chose not to face him in open combat but instead poisoned him, leading me to believe that his former Master was rather formidable.

Agreed.

Frankly, Existentialist, you can point out my flaws as much as you want. I welcome the improvement I can gain from them.


Though, the, "I am not sure Plagueis would win, but the fact Sidious didn't want to fight him head on makes me think he might" doesn't make much sense. Whether Sidious did or did not want to fight him has no relevance.

Originally posted by Pwned
Frankly, Existentialist, you can point out my flaws as much as you want. I welcome the improvement I can gain from them.

That's why I'm doing it.

Originally posted by Pwned
Though, the, "I am not sure Plagueis would win, but the fact Sidious didn't want to fight him head on makes me think he might" doesn't make much sense. Whether Sidious did or did not want to fight him has no relevance.

It (likely) stems from the belief that, since Sidious is more powerful than Bane (confirmed by sources ranging from The Dark Side Sourcebook to The Complete Visual Dictionary), Plagueis's superiority over Sidious would indicate superiority over Bane.

How that would necessarily result in Plagueis's ability to defeat Bane in the context of a strict duel remains to be seen, but then, so does the idea that Sidious was weaker than Plagueis.

Becuase being more powerful than someone indicates victory in all cases. Thats why Abeloth has routinely obliterated Luke in combat.

Funny, many people here consider Bane to be roughly on par with Sidious.

Originally posted by Pwned
Funny, many people here consider Bane to be roughly on par with Sidious.

First and most importantly, you should learn not to trust what most people consider or believe here. Not only is blind acceptance of popular opinions fallacious, a lot of people think Bandon could take Dooku, Revan could take Luke, Ragnos could take the rest. If you want a KMC poster with supernatural precision and an uncanny ability to make valid arguments and objective conclusions, seek out Gideon. Not sure if he comes here anymore, but he's your best bet.

Second, Sidious being more powerful than Bane doesn't mean that the disparity is tremendous. They can still be on par with one having an edge.

Originally posted by Existentialist
a lot of people think Bandon could take Dooku,

And they would be right.

Originally posted by ares834
And they would be right

to kill themselves, yes.

Originally posted by Existentialist
to kill themselves, yes.

Despite what you apparently think, I do not blindly accept what people here say. I consider Bane to be on par with Sidious, and I say, "some people" because I am not the only one.

I've actually been here since '04, and Gideon wasn't as uber as you try to make him seem. He was good at it though.

And they are right. Bandon could TOTALLY take them.

Originally posted by Pwned
Despite what you apparently think, I do not blindly accept what people here say.

I'm sure.

Originally posted by Pwned
I consider Bane to be on par with Sidious, and I say, "some people" because I am not the only one.

I'm sure Goebbels wasn't the only one who believed Hitler was a cool dude, too. See where I'm going with this?

I kid, I kid

Originally posted by Pwned
I've actually been here since '04, and Gideon wasn't as uber as you try to make him seem. He was good at it though.

Nah, Gideon was definitely the best debater this place has ever seen. Eminence was good, too, though.

Originally posted by Pwned
Despite what you apparently think, I do not blindly accept what people here say. I consider Bane to be on par with Sidious, and I say, "some people" because I am not the only one.

I've actually been here since '04, and Gideon wasn't as uber as you try to make him seem. He was good at it though.

And they are right. Bandon could TOTALLY take them.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You're join date is 2010...

lol

Edit - If I reported you right now it's very likely you would get permenantly banned... lol

I wouldn't do that though.

Originally posted by Pwned
Funny, many people here consider Bane to be roughly on par with Sidious.

In that case then Bane must be miles above Plagueis. Afterall, Palpatine can move at sublight speeds.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In that case then Bane must be miles above Plagueis. Afterall, Palpatine can move at sublight speeds.



You're so butthurt. Wait 'til you see his arguments about Plagueis.

Let me guess, he can blow up galaxies with his farts.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Let me guess, he can blow up galaxies with his farts.

I honestly can't wait for both debates between you two; he's attacking two of your very favorite characters, which means you'll engage with superhuman ferocity. It will be popcorn-grade entertainment.

Now go please me. uhuh

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
lol

Edit - If I reported you right now it's very likely you would get permenantly banned... lol

I wouldn't do that though. Actually, I had a whole different IP, and the only reason I made a new one was because I lost my previous email due to switching providers. Had no way to get the old one back.

Originally posted by Pwned
Actually, I had a whole different IP, and the only reason I made a new one was because I lost my previous email due to switching providers. Had no way to get the old one back.

Sucks when that happens.

Originally posted by Existentialist
Gideon was definitely the best debater this place has ever seen
Advent, LS, and Enyalus would disagree.

Come to think of it, Gideon might disagree as well.

We all know Gideon liked to use his socks for *ahem* private things. But, what can you do?

And I agree with Zampano. Those are the disagree'ers. Disagreeers? Disagrers? Who cares

This is probably one of the closest fights I have ever seen...

(Just checked the Poll)

Originally posted by Battlemaster
This is probably one of the closest fights I have ever seen...

(Just checked the Poll)

I'll skew the results for you, one sec.

And done. Up-voted Bane on all three categories.

6e2x4_XIokk&autoplay=1

Plagueis loses sabers , the rest might be close, but not sabers.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'll skew the results for you, one sec.

And done. Up-voted Bane on all three categories.

Thanks..


Honestly, I don't know who I'm rooting for here..

I like both characters.

Bane is a bad ass with a lightsaber, and just awesome in general - and Plagueis was incredible with the Force - and caused Sidious to piss his pants..

This is one hell of a fight.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
...

You did that with the other thread, too.

Well, I think that at this point, we should say: We almost got 7 pages of pure nothingness. We iz awl Bawsses.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Thanks..


Honestly, I don't know who I'm rooting for here..

I like both characters.

Bane is a bad ass with a lightsaber, and just awesome in general - and Plagueis was incredible with the Force - and caused Sidious to piss his pants..

This is one hell of a fight.

I'd like to see it, for one. Would be better than any PT fight we've seen.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
You did that with the other thread, too.

It's a trap.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
Bane is just awesome in general

Too bad he would get layed and prayed by Brock Lesnar for 25 minutes if they ever competed in a wrestling match. In fact... it's very likely Brock would have his way with him if you took away bane's lightsaber and offensive force powers. There isn't much bane can do when he finds both his arms and legs pinned to the ground and in bottom control underneath an absolute beast of a man in Brock Lesnar.

GTFO with that nonsense Ray.

Originally posted by Master_Galen
It's a trap.

http://nickopotamus.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/its_a_trap.jpg



http://forum.i3d.net/attachments/huiskamer-dutch/138d1133595102-stfu-shutup.jpg

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Too bad he would get layed and prayed by Brock Lesnar for 25 minutes if they ever competed in a wrestling match. In fact... it's very likely Brock would have his way with him if you took away bane's lightsaber and offensive force powers. There isn't much bane can do when he finds both his arms and legs pinned to the ground and in bottom control underneath an absolute beast of a man in Brock Lesnar.

Wrong Thread.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'd like to see it, for one. Would be better than any PT fight we've seen.

No kidding.

Originally posted by Existentialist


It (likely) stems from the belief that, since Sidious is more powerful than Bane (confirmed by sources ranging from The Dark Side Sourcebook to The Complete Visual Dictionary), Plagueis's superiority over Sidious would indicate superiority over Bane.

How that would necessarily result in Plagueis's ability to defeat Bane in the context of a strict duel remains to be seen, but then, so does the idea that Sidious was weaker than Plagueis.

I just thought it speaks to Plag's overall abilites if Sidious was unwilling to challenge him outright. We know that Bane and Sid's are somewhat comparable and if Sid's thought his Master a challenge to be wary of then Bane likely would as well.

In the end though part of it may simply relate to the mindset of both Plagueis and Sidious as it was instilled in him duriung his training. Both seemed to favor subtlety and cunning over direct confrontation at times, so perhaps Sidious simply thought of it as a greater testament to his Sith abilities that he could take his Master unaware with poison.

Is there anywhere that explains exactly what happened in-depth?

Undoubtedly Sidious regarded Plagueis as a challenge; the prologue of the novel has him "concern for his own safety" when he briefly senses a disturbance in the Force and fears Plagueis returned from the dead. But that is insufficient reasoning to conclude he would beat Bane.

And what do you mean by "what happened"? Plagueis's death?

Yeah. I only know of what he mentioned in ROTS when telling that Plag was poisoned by his Apprentice, whom we later learn was Sidious. I haven't read anything that gives details of how it came about.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Yeah. I only know of what he mentioned in ROTS when telling that Plag was poisoned by his Apprentice, whom we later learn was Sidious. I haven't read anything that gives details of how it came about.

Ah. Well, you should read Darth Plagueis, the novelization by James Luceno, released earlier this year.

Sidious gets Plags very drunk and after a brief "bar fight" Sids uses force choke to kill Plags.

Or that.

It sounds so stupid when put like that. But it's actually a pretty cool scene. And yeah, I highly recommend the novel. It's one of the best.

Still about an 8/8.5 out of 10 for me, but I wish it had forged its own complete narrative rather than what we actually got.

Sings: "You know it's hard out there for a Sith..."

After the most difficult duel of his life - Bane stands over the corpse of Plagueis the Wise.

Albeit with bleeding gashes and lightsaber burns, Bane stands - the winner.

Originally posted by ares834
Sidious gets Plags very drunk and after a brief "bar fight" Sids uses force choke to kill Plags.
So there is actually a fight between them? 0_o

No, Plagueis never attempts to attack Sidious but instead tries to rally his midi-chlorians to save his life.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
After the most difficult duel of his life - Bane stands over the corpse of Plagueis the Wise.

Albeit with bleeding gashes and lightsaber burns, Bane stands - the winner.
I'mcurious if you've ever made a correct conclusion.

What prevents Plagueis from overpowering him with the force? Or the saber? Or jut deactivating his midichlorians now?

Plagueis has been directly confirmed as more powerful than Bane...so have Zannah and Cognus and all those that followed

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'mcurious if you've ever made a correct conclusion.

What prevents Plagueis from overpowering him with the force? Or the saber? Or jut deactivating his midichlorians now?

Plagueis has been directly confirmed as more powerful than Bane...so have Zannah and Cognus and all those that followed

I indeed have.

For the record, I wasn't sure who would win between these two.

The win was decided mostly off of roughly calc'ing everyone else's viewpoints on it.

And apparently, most people saw Bane crushing Plagueis.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
I indeed have.

For the record, I wasn't sure who would win between these two.

The win was decided mostly off of roughly calc'ing everyone else's viewpoints on it.

And apparently, most people saw Bane crushing Plagueis.

I'm curious. If you went to a forum and saw the people there believing 2+2=5, does that make it so? Or if you go to certain places where the consensus is evolution isn't real?

Are you familiar with 'appeal to popularity' fallacy? People ignoring what Plagues can do and aggrandizing what Bane can doesn't a victory make.

Lightsnake are you saying that Plagues can manipulate midi-chlorians in combat? Because the question had been asked int his thread and nobody was able to say that he can. And outside of that most people think Bane's speed, TK and lightning feats greatly eclipse those of Plagues.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm curious. If you went to a forum and saw the people there believing 2+2=5, does that make it so? Or if you go to certain places where the consensus is evolution isn't real?

Are you familiar with 'appeal to popularity' fallacy? People ignoring what Plagues can do and aggrandizing what Bane can doesn't a victory make.


I actually agree with that viewpoint - just because a group of people believe something, does not make it so. But such is the nature of human ignorance.

I do wonder though, have you read the new Bane books, by chance?

Palpatine was capable of doing it while killing Plagueis,

There is simply no reason Plagueis cannot. It's not a costly force technique, and it's one Plagueis has been shown to do it with zero effort. Can he do telekenisis in battle?Force lightning? Why is just talking to midichlorians any different? why was he able to focus enough to try to save himself when Palpatine was murdering him? While he was startled, drunk and helpless (he failed, but because Palpatine knew just how to stop him.)

I don't really care what most people think, especially with the level of reasoning I've seen from many of them here, either. Bane has never pretty much ATOMIZED someone with a force wave as Plagueis has.

Originally posted by Battlemaster
I actually agree with that viewpoint - just because a group of people believe something, does not make it so. But such is the nature of human ignorance.

I do wonder though, have you read the new Bane books, by chance?

I have read every insulting, terrible page, yep.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Bane has never pretty much ATOMIZED someone with a force wave as Plagueis has.

He has disintergrated 12 combatants at once however.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He has disintergrated 12 combatants at once however.

I recall him doing this with a death field, which is a considerably different technique. And let's not tout Bane too heavily in that fight as he ended up losing it pretty handily with the Huntress there.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I recall him doing this with a death field, which is a considerably different technique. And let's not tout Bane too heavily in that fight as he ended up losing it pretty handily with the Huntress there.


No, he did this in RoT against the technobeasts. Would you like the quotes?

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, he did this in RoT against the technobeasts. Would you like the quotes?

I'll pull up Rule of Two, and mention that he had the orbalisks then as well.

Moreover?
Plagueis atomizes half a dozen (potentially a full dozen if you interpret the quote a certain way) while mortally wounded. Bane is in peak condition and has the orbalisks empowering him.

And Plagueis also manipulated the wave after he used it through his opponents

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'll pull up Rule of Two, and mention that he had the orbalisks then as well.

Moreover?
Plagueis atomizes half a dozen (potentially a full dozen if you interpret the quote a certain way) while mortally wounded. Bane is in peak condition and has the orbalisks empowering him.

And Plagueis also manipulated the wave after he used it through his opponents

So? Disintergrating an opponent with TK is a matter of skill and mastery of telekinesis, not raw power. If anything the orbalisks would make it harder to do that with the pain and adrenaline messing up his concentration. Furthermore in that fight he had to deal with nanobots causing him extreme pain and disorientation, and he still disintergrates 2 technobeasts as he's fighting them off at one point. Peak condition my ass.

And even if it was a matter of power, Bane specifically notes that he's trying to conserve power during that fight, but that he can still afford to use the Force in that way and fight for over an hour. Considering this, as well as the fact that he disintergrates 12 of them at once, indicates that he would be capable of doing it even without the boost from the orbalisks.

When taking Cognus into account though, you have to also take into account that weird ability she has. She unconciously disrupts the Force near her, leaving Bane slower and not as capable as he normally is due to a, admittedly very minor, disruption in his connection to the Force.

Originally posted by Pwned
When taking Cognus into account though, you have to also take into account that weird ability she has. She unconciously disrupts the Force near her, leaving Bane slower and not as capable as he normally is due to a, admittedly very minor, disruption in his connection to the Force.

We've seen Jedi adjust themselves, however, when blockers or Ysalmiri are present...and don't forget the yuuzhan Vong.


Neph:



When is this noted? Sith in pain make them MORE dangerous as they focus through it and it gives them more power.



Once again, there is no evidence that being in intense pain breeds disorientation. "There is no Pain where Strength Lies" remember? Does this make Vader unfocused and weak because he's in horrible agony every waking moment?


He noted, actually, he's preserving power/energy AFTER the fight. Not during.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
We've seen Jedi adjust themselves, however, when blockers or Ysalmiri are present...and don't forget the yuuzhan Vong. But also take into account what happened the first time they encountered it.

I also see a difference between blocking and disrupting, which I need to say before you read this next part:

While they have adapted, it takes time. And Cognus will be on your ass the whole time, combined with her inherent precog, she is quite formidable. Not to mention that he had to extend more concentration to draw on the Force, thus weakening him even further. Her little ability there is quite powerful.

The first time Mara encountered a Yuuzhan Vong, she ended up killing him, as I recall.

And this isn't Cognus when she was an amazing Sith Lord, it's Cognus, the force assassin. This is also something Cognus did instinctively, not an ability she refined. It's not something a high level Sith Lord has any business falling to.

We know for a fact from the visual guide that the Sith of the Banite line kept surpassing one another to boot. Plagueis would be a good sight stronger.

And you're back with the typical baseless assertions and reaching. Please show us where it was "confirmed". Show us where it is also stated that each sith lord was more powerful than the first.



Stating that you can't find a good reason for a force user not to do action A, B, or C doesn't mean said force user can do action A, B, or C.

Originally posted by suck it cowboy
And you're back with the typical baseless assertions and reaching. Please show us where it was "confirmed". Show us where it is also stated that each sith lord was more powerful than the first.

The Rule of Two is that when the apprentice has surpassed the master they kill them, then they become master and get their own apprentice, who in turn surpasses and kills them.

To surpass is to become better, stronger, and logically more powerful.

Originally posted by Master_Galen
The Rule of Two is that when the apprentice has surpassed the master they kill them, then they become master and get their own apprentice, who in turn surpasses and kills them.

To surpass is to become better, stronger, and logically more powerful.

That's not a "confirmation". Furthermore, the point is valid only if each master faced his apprentice in the same manner that Bane and Zannah did, and not defeat the master through subterfuge.

Originally posted by suck it cowboy
And you're back with the typical baseless assertions and reaching. Please show us where it was "confirmed". Show us where it is also stated that each sith lord was more powerful than the first.
Sure:
""For a millennium, the Sith maintained their order in secrecy, passing down their evil heritage. As they gained knowledge of the dark side of the Force, their powers increased with each generation." (pg. 16)"


So Plagueis can't do something very, very basic? Even when he could do more complicated maneuvers against Darth Venemis?

The power of the sith increased with every generation. Congratulations, you proved the sith order become more and more powerful throughout the ages.



I didn't say he couldn't, I said that not finding a good reason for a force user to not do something doesn't necessarily mean he can do it.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Neph:



When is this noted? Sith in pain make them MORE dangerous as they focus through it and it gives them more power.

Do you not remember the subplot where Zannah convinces Bane that the orbalisks are more trouble than they're worth because he can't concentrate properly and they affect his control?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Once again, there is no evidence that being in intense pain breeds disorientation. "There is no Pain where Strength Lies" remember? Does this make Vader unfocused and weak because he's in horrible agony every waking moment?

I said pain and disorientation. The nanobots attack his brain, the frontal lobe specifically, which obviously wouldn't be good for his concentration. Furthermore Bane describes that has lapses in concentration throughout the fight and gets struck down during those time. Its clear that Bane's concentration suffered throughout that fight.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He noted, actually, he's preserving power/energy AFTER the fight. Not during.

No, during the fight it specifically says that hes 'conserving his Force abilities'.