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I made a thread of this because I figured it wouldnt get read if I posted it on The Avengers thread.This more than anything was what pissed me off about The Avengers.I never read the comicbook but I know enough about The Hulks character tp know they just could not get his character right or decide on it. Such as when Black Widow finds him in mexico I believe it was? cant remember. well when she finds him she says to him-thats your secret to staying calm huh,being in a stress free environment? or close to those lines anyway. and he says no.Thats wrong because that is his secret is a stressfree environment.

Here though is when they really started to betray his character though.When they fired onto Shield,Black Widow and Banner fall down a few floors below.Banner experiences pain and slowly turns into the hulk.Check.thats how it happens.

He has to have a trigger to become the hulk.he cant just turn it on anytime he wants to.He has to get angry,scared,or experience pain to become The Hulk and that was the trigger then was the pain he experienced.

This is where they betrayed his character though.I know enough about The Hulk to know that when he transforms into The Hulk,even if its just a stranger he never met before who is around him at that time,he doesnt run after them and try to kill them like he did with Black Widow who was hardly a stranger.He only goes after someone that has harmed him and he still takes it easy on them.He doesnt try to kill them. He was trying to kill her.He was getting ready to hit her before Thor showed up and save her bacon.That would have killed Black Widow.She wouldnt have been able to take the abuse Thor was able to from him. That was just absurd he came after her like that for no reason.He would have done what he started off to do,walk away and smashed things.Hulk Smash!!!

Then when he became The Hulk the second time,they REALLY betrayed his character in spades.That was so stupid when they were saying to him-Doc nows a good time to get angry.Then he replies-Thats my secret,Im always angry.Yeah you're always angry, thats why you're not always the hulk. He cant freaking transform into The Hulk just because he wants to.

Like I said before he has to get angry,scared,or experience pain.None of those things happened. Also the second time around, they got his metaphoris totally wrong.It takes at least 30 seconds for him to transform into him.They got it correct the first time.The second time they screwed it up it was a joke.Not only does he have to have one of those 3 reasons to be able to turn into The Hulk,he cant do it in just seconds like he was able to do either.


Then when he finally does,THIS time he is friendly with them and and understands what captain america is saying where before,he could not with Black Widow.

Damn even both Hulk movies which I both hated at least got THAT much right,that he cant just transform anytime he wants and do it in seconds like superman.sheesh. they couldnt make up their mind about his character. Everything else I had no problem with,just that one thing.

That was the biggest(if only) gripe I had with the film. How the hell is he gonna just turn at will without being provoked?

He's transformed at will in the comics several times before.

Don't care about the gripes, movie still kicked ass and so did hulk so I really don't care or choose to question

Originally posted by Darth Martin
That was the biggest(if only) gripe I had with the film. How the hell is he gonna just turn at will without being provoked?

Me and you both.Exactly.that was the ONLY thing about the movie i could not stomach either.I so much hated that.

I loved everything else about it.That was the only negative for me in the film.Dont forget to include what I mentioned on how he went after Black Widow and tried to kill her.Man he doesnt even go after someone innocent who is a complete stranger to him he has never met before who who has done no wrong to him.

Says it all really.

I actually thought it him turning at will was unexpected and a nice twist. My only gripe about the film was having Thanos at the end...It restricts where the next film can go.

Originally posted by Mr Parker


He has to have a trigger to become the hulk.he cant just turn it on anytime he wants to.He has to get angry,scared,or experience pain to become The Hulk and that was the trigger then was the pain he experienced.


http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans/H123_Transformation.JPG

LoL.

The reason he was "friendly" the second time was because it was a self-induced transformation and he wasn't being subjected by Loki's staff like he was the first time.

Originally posted by ares834
The reason he was "friendly" the second time was because it was a self-induced transformation and he wasn't being subjected by Loki's staff like he was the first time.

Thats what I told my friends

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Dont forget to include what I mentioned on how he went after Black Widow and tried to kill her.Man he doesnt even go after someone innocent who is a complete stranger to him he has never met before who who has done no wrong to him.

Black Widow innocent?
You're kinda forgetting that she initially lied to Banner when they first met in India (not Mexico). She said she was alone to peacefully talk Banner into joining the mission. Banner saw through this & knew that a) Widow came with armed back up & b) He clearly did not have a choice with SHIELD interfering with his life.

I see no fault with the Hulk wanting to kill her when he transformed the first time, after all she did represent SHIELD & did lie & manipulate him.

Originally posted by Mr Parker

Then when he became The Hulk the second time,they REALLY betrayed his character in spades.That was so stupid when they were saying to him-Doc nows a good time to get angry.Then he replies-Thats my secret,Im always angry.Yeah you're always angry, thats why you're not always the hulk. He cant freaking transform into The Hulk just because he wants to.

Like I said before he has to get angry,scared,or experience pain.None of those things happened. Also the second time around, they got his metaphoris totally wrong.It takes at least 30 seconds for him to transform into him.They got it correct the first time.The second time they screwed it up it was a joke.Not only does he have to have one of those 3 reasons to be able to turn into The Hulk,he cant do it in just seconds like he was able to do either.


Then when he finally does,THIS time he is friendly with them and and understands what captain america is saying where before,he could not with Black Widow.



By Banner saying, "That's my secret, I'm always angry." I didn't see that as a contradiction, I simply took it as something cool to say before going into battle. Like Dirty Harry's, "Make my day." OR Arnie saying, "I'll be back."

As far as Banner morphing in seconds...you're forgetting too when Banner earlier explained how he tried to kill himself once by putting a gun in his mouth..."Then HE spat out the bullet." Obviously based on the situation this version of the Hulk can transform as quickly as the situation needs. I mean the first time he was knocked out unconscious as Banner & when he was slowly regaining his senses, the first things he felt was both pain & then anger, slowly triggering the change to Hulk.

Lastly yes, the Hulk is friendly with the rest of The Avengers...you're forgetting he did come back to join them in battle not to pick a fight with them or even run away from SHIELD & the alien invasion. He chose to stand & fight with them, so yeah that explains why he was friendly & even willing to listen to Cap.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
---I never read the comicbook---

It shows.

Originally posted by Mr Parker Such as when Black Widow finds him in mexico I believe it was?

India.

Originally posted by Mr Parker When they fired onto Shield,Black Widow and Banner fall down a few floors below.Banner experiences pain and slowly turns into the hulk.Check.thats how it happens.

He has to have a trigger to become the hulk.he cant just turn it on anytime he wants to.He has to get angry,scared,or experience pain to become The Hulk and that was the trigger then was the pain he experienced.

No he doesn't need provocation as the only way to change, I think you're thinking of the TV show where Banner got angry. But in the comics Bruce has figured more out the mental complexities of the Hulk.
The Hulk comes in multiple forms, sometimes they even look different (different colors) and display different levels of intellect. Heres my brake down of the the problem you perceive--

-The first time Hulk transformed Banner told everyone he had a "party trick". That was his ability to change at will because he already learnt to embrace and harness his anger. BUT THE REASON WHY HULK WAS BERSERK on the Heli-carrier, was because Loki was manipulating everybody on the team with his telepathic abilities and the Mind Gem. Hulk's form was that of an ENRAGED ANIMAL.

-Hulk in New York, Banner uses his "party trick" and changes in a calm state resulting in a co-operative, slightly moody Hulk. Without Loki's manipulations Hulk was free to crush his subordinates and eventually find and beat Loki himself.

I hope that answers your questions.

Originally posted by jaden101


I actually thought it him turning at will was unexpected and a nice twist. My only gripe about the film was having Thanos at the end...It restricts where the next film can go.

Well they could always have Thanos working behind the scenes testing the heroes of the earth what they're capable of.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
I never read the comicbook

Pretty much invalidates everything that follows.

And since Avengers is basically a combined sequel of all the previous Marvel movies, Bruce has mastered his Hulk transformation. As seen in the end of HULK, when Bruce(Norton) was meditating and triggered his transformation at will.

He's been able to change voluntarily in comics for years. But he can still turn involuntarily due to anger/stress whatever. He couldn't voluntarily turn in the TIH movie at first, but then that film took us down the path that he was gaining more control by the end. I don't see the issue tbh.

Originally posted by KingD19
And since Avengers is basically a combined sequel of all the previous Marvel movies, Bruce has mastered his Hulk transformation. As seen in the end of HULK, when Bruce(Norton) was meditating and triggered his transformation at will.

I really enjoyed The Avengers. My really only beef with the Hulk was he was not played by Edward Norton.

I do not follow the Marvel films very well aside for watching them for entertainment value, so my opinion has little to no merit. I do not read any of the comics.

From IMDb:

"Negotiations between Norton and Marvel eventually broke down, and the role was instead offered to Mark Ruffalo, who accepted. Norton wrote a public response to the decision on his Facebook page, stating that he will not be appearing in The Avengers, but thanked Marvel Studios for considering letting him reprise the role. "

Least Norton wasn't a dick about it

I think Mark Ruffalow was a lot better personally, and that they should try to scrap the Hulk film completely from the Avengers Initiative canon as aside from different actor the original film really, really sucked.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
I think Mark Ruffalow was a lot better personally, and that they should try to scrap the Hulk film completely from the Avengers Initiative canon as aside from different actor the original film really, really sucked.

And the original film with Bana isn't part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

I'm talking about the one with Ed.

Yep...your bad

and why should they scrap the Ed Nortman movie?

Originally posted by sweersa
I really enjoyed The Avengers. My really only beef with the Hulk was he was not played by Edward Norton.



I thought the same before I saw the movie.

But honestly now I prefer Ruffalo. Norton makes Banner too cool. Ruffalo plays the better neurotic nerd.

Originally posted by jaden101
Says it all really.

I actually thought it him turning at will was unexpected and a nice twist. My only gripe about the film was having Thanos at the end...It restricts where the next film can go.

lol Restricts, how about opens up, many many door ways? Thanos should have been the Antagonist from the start, Loki, such a waste. My only gripe with this movie is that Thor was glazed over and added only as a second thought. Captain America...,well we all know he had no reason to be in this movie. Hulk and Iron Man. Thank Jon faverue, and Robert Downey jr, for this movie attempt naah im just shitting where i eat, it was a great rollercoaster movie. Good guys always, win. Thats the important part.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
lol Restricts, how about opens up, many many door ways? Thanos should have been the Antagonist from the start, Loki, such a waste. My only gripe with this movie is that Thor was glazed over and added only as a second thought. Captain America...,well we all know he had no reason to be in this movie. Hulk and Iron Man. Thank Jon faverue, and Robert Downey jr, for this movie attempt naah im just shitting where i eat, it was a great rollercoaster movie. Good guys always, win. Thats the important part.

Have you been drinking?

Looks like it....with alot of his posts that he does nowadays.

Nope, no drinking, no drugs..,just observation.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
I think Mark Ruffalow was a lot better personally, and that they should try to scrap the Hulk film completely from the Avengers Initiative canon as aside from different actor the original film really, really sucked.

I know you're banned, but I agree.


Ruffalow plays the "timid scientist type but under the surface he's a super genius"-type much better.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
lol Restricts, how about opens up, many many door ways? Thanos should have been the Antagonist from the start, Loki, such a waste. My only gripe with this movie is that Thor was glazed over and added only as a second thought. Captain America...,well we all know he had no reason to be in this movie. Hulk and Iron Man. Thank Jon faverue, and Robert Downey jr, for this movie attempt naah im just shitting where i eat, it was a great rollercoaster movie. Good guys always, win. Thats the important part.

You haven't been drinking because I agree with you.

Loki such a waste in this ?!?

far from a waste in the movie.

Originally posted by dadudemon


You haven't been drinking because I agree with you.

Yeah but...

BXRZ5c6I-vo

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Black Widow innocent?
You're kinda forgetting that she initially lied to Banner when they first met in India (not Mexico). She said she was alone to peacefully talk Banner into joining the mission. Banner saw through this & knew that a) Widow came with armed back up & b) He clearly did not have a choice with SHIELD interfering with his life.

I see no fault with the Hulk wanting to kill her when he transformed the first time, after all she did represent SHIELD & did lie & manipulate him.

Yeah but because Banner has a good heart and is a kind person that part of him is why The Hulk wont kill people.He may toss them and hurt them but not try and kill them.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
By Banner saying, "That's my secret, I'm always angry." I didn't see that as a contradiction, I simply took it as something cool to say before going into battle. Like Dirty Harry's, "Make my day." OR Arnie saying, "I'll be back."

As far as Banner morphing in seconds...you're forgetting too when Banner earlier explained how he tried to kill himself once by putting a gun in his mouth..."Then HE spat out the bullet." Obviously based on the situation this version of the Hulk can transform as quickly as the situation needs. I mean the first time he was knocked out unconscious as Banner & when he was slowly regaining his senses, the first things he felt was both pain & then anger, slowly triggering the change to Hulk.

Lastly yes, the Hulk is friendly with the rest of The Avengers...you're forgetting he did come back to join them in battle not to pick a fight with them or even run away from SHIELD & the alien invasion. He chose to stand & fight with them, so yeah that explains why he was friendly & even willing to listen to Cap.

Well I assumed that it was the same kind of slow morph that occured when he Hulked out the first time on the aircraft when that happened.spitting out the bullet.

You didnt seem to understand what i was getting at when he said-Thats my secret.im always angry.That was lame because if he is always angry,then he should always be the hulk.That was just too lame.It would have been far more believable if while that alien monster was flying towards them if it had like maybe swatted a car and the car hit him causing pain of course which would trigger him becoming the hulk.something like that.

something more plausible than that lame-Thats my secret,Im always angry line.they could have come up with something a lot better than that.after all that really was why he was able to keep from being the hulk while in India was it was a stress free environment.Seeing that monster of course coming at him though would trigger that stress so they should have just left it at that.Let the monster trigger the stress which triggers the hulk.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Well I assumed that it was the same kind of slow morph that occured when he Hulked out the first time on the aircraft when that happened.spitting out the bullet.

You didnt seem to understand what i was getting at when he said-Thats my secret.im always angry.That was lame because if he is always angry,then he should always be the hulk.That was just too lame.It would have been far more believable if while that alien monster was flying towards them if it had like maybe swatted a car and the car hit him causing pain of course which would trigger him becoming the hulk.something like that.

something more plausible than that lame-Thats my secret,Im always angry line.they could have come up with something a lot better than that.after all that really was why he was able to keep from being the hulk while in India was it was a stress free environment.Seeing that monster of course coming at him though would trigger that stress so they should have just left it at that.Let the monster trigger the stress which triggers the hulk.

He shot himself in the mouth with the barrel in his mouth. There was no possibility of a slow morph. Hulk would have had to instantly change to stop him from dying, since a pistol round on average is around 1200 fps. That means if he hadn't changed instantly, the bullet would have been out the back of his head before anything.

And it's very plausible. Him always being angry means he can regulate just how angry he is and control his transformation. He already showed he could do it at will by the end of Hulk(o8), so him doing it now is no surprise.

Originally posted by KingD19
He shot himself in the mouth with the barrel in his mouth. There was no possibility of a slow morph. Hulk would have had to instantly change to stop him from dying, since a pistol round on average is around 1200 fps. That means if he hadn't changed instantly, the bullet would have been out the back of his head before anything.

And it's very plausible. Him always being angry means he can regulate just how angry he is and control his transformation. He already showed he could do it at will by the end of Hulk(o8), so him doing it now is no surprise.

You think maybe, he was being metaphorical? The deleted scene in The Incredible Hulk has Banner trying to shoot himself up in the arctic, but when he gets close to pulling the trigger his heart rate gets fast enough that he hulked out and crushed the handgun. So maybe him saying "I put a bullet in my mouth and the 'other guy' spat it out" was just an effective way of saying in that tense argument scene that he's tried to kill himself to end the Hulk and it doesn't work - just as storing him in that special cell wouldn't work out in the end, either.

This whole thread is a waste of time, when you have the OP openly saying he doesn't even read Hulk comics, and comes here to nitpick.

Originally posted by roughrider
You think maybe, he was being metaphorical? The deleted scene in The Incredible Hulk has Banner trying to shoot himself up in the arctic, but when he gets close to pulling the trigger his heart rate gets fast enough that he hulked out and crushed the handgun. So maybe him saying "I put a bullet in my mouth and the 'other guy' spat it out" was just an effective way of saying in that tense argument scene that he's tried to kill himself to end the Hulk and it doesn't work - just as storing him in that special cell wouldn't work out in the end, either.

This whole thread is a waste of time, when you have the OP openly saying he doesn't even read Hulk comics, and comes here to nitpick.

well yeah I can see him Hulking out before he fires the bullet the way that would stress him out like that doing that and I already knew him being in the cell would not do any good,no need to tell me that as far as the other part though of him saying-thats my secret, im always angry.well according to that logic of his,he should ALWAYS be the hulk. Its just lame,they could have come up with anything better than that.


And it's very plausible. Him always being angry means he can regulate just how angry he is and control his transformation. He already showed he could do it at will by the end of Hulk(o8), so him doing it now is no surprise.

He implied earlier when he was talking to Stark though that he couldnt control it though when he said to Stark-But you can control it? That sounded to me like he was implying he could not control the hulk the way Stark could with the metal in his gut. Oh and okay then he did that in the comics.Just because he did do that in the comics it still doesnt sit well with me.

Even in the two movie adapatations he had to have a trigger of pain,fear or anger to become the hulk and then all of a sudden they changed it in this movie.Doesnt sit well with me even though it did happen in the comics.

For example just because Gwen Stacy died in the comics,i dont want that to happen in the movies.I know it will but I dont like it.. always hated those a holes when they killed her off and always will.same here,bad idea then and bad idea for him to be able to morph without a trigger all of a sudden now.it just doesnt make sense.

I never could have got into the hulk tv show in the first place if he had just been able to do it at will like superman getting into his costume.It would just seem too corny for even a comicbook character. Thats the same with superman,i could never get into him because i always thought it was corny as hell for people to not to recognize him just because he had on glasses.Well being able to morph anytime he wants quickly sounds just as corny to me.Glad I never read the comic now that i know that.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
-thats my secret, im always angry.well according to that logic of his,he should ALWAYS be the hulk. Its just lame,they could have come up with anything better than that.

Again...Banner was being metaphorical. He was learning various meditating techniques by the end of TIH, to try and have the Hulk just below the surface, rather than fight desperately to keep him contained like before. Because the Hulk seems to be more out of control when he comes out over Banner's will. He managed to stop Blonsky and save the people in Harlem by willing himself to change, for once. So trying to make a mental accommodation with him was what he was looking to achieve. Saying 'I'm always angry' is his way of saying he's in touch with his inner sociopath (a line from Banner in the climax of The Ultimates vol. 2.)

If someone states "I never read the comicbook" and then goes on to try and rip apart a film based on a comic on the grounds that it didn't follow the comic, it's futile to debate with them. They have an agenda; listening to reason isn't part of it.

Save your keystrokes, people.

Originally posted by Mr Parker


Banner ran & hid in India. Being a doctor with a good heart, he was seen helping the sick & poor with limited medicine & medical equipment, much less help...

Seriously do you really think, that's a "stress-free environment"?

Banner would be constantly frustrated in India, feeling like he's losing a battle against the sick, thus the tag, "I'm always angry."

The movie is incredible

Originally posted by KingD19
He shot himself in the mouth with the barrel in his mouth. There was no possibility of a slow morph. Hulk would have had to instantly change to stop him from dying, since a pistol round on average is around 1200 fps. That means if he hadn't changed instantly, the bullet would have been out the back of his head before anything.

And it's very plausible. Him always being angry means he can regulate just how angry he is and control his transformation. He already showed he could do it at will by the end of Hulk(o8), so him doing it now is no surprise.

I like to think his healing factor instantly kicked in as he transformed.

I always saw it as the staff's infuence caused Hulkie to go apeshit for awhile since they had to shoehorn a Hulk vs The Avengers plotline.

he did grab the staff in the carrier without realizing it, iirc..