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Overall how do you view cyclops as a leader/tactician?

Second only to Cap in some cases, superior in others.

At the very least, one of the best tacticians/strategists/leaders in Marvel.

Yeah he is one of the best. Leadership was actually one of his powers in the X-men legends games along with Storm.

Tactician wise he is only second to Cap personally.

Behind Cap

* while Captain America was said to be the best leader and tactician in Marvel, Cyclops (esp. in the recent arcs before AvX) is shown to be better than Cap in most areas... in some instances they were together, Cyke ordered field tactics impromptu (when they are in the Negative Zone with Hope and Namor) and Cap obeyed like a soldier from a general... but most of the times, Cyke treats Cap with utmost respect, albeit because of his age, stature, position in government, etc., often addressing Cap as "sir"... given the age gap between them and their leadership and strategic skills are in paper-thin close, Cyke has the potential to surpass Cap...

He's fairly good until his personal life causes professional problems. Other than the X-Force problem and schism, he did cause inferno and all of its consequences.

That was more Sinister, imo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Second only to Cap in some cases, superior in others.

At the very least, one of the best tacticians/strategists/leaders in Marvel.

This.

Guy has been leading since he was a teenager.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That was more Sinister, imo.
Yes, I'm sure Sinister made him abandon his wife and kid and then hide his marriage from Jean and then avoid contacting Maddie after she disappeared and was nearly beaten to death by the Marauders and assumed that some random, horribly beaten redhead was Maddie and that his kid was dead. That's kind of why I like the original X-Factor it's three washed-up guys trying to regain their glory, a recently dead chick, and a horribly repressed walking nutcase being manipulated into starting a superhero team and hurting their own best interests by a genocidal terrorist posing as their friend.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Yes, I'm sure Sinister made him abandon his wife and kid and then hide his marriage from Jean and then avoid contacting Maddie after she disappeared and was nearly beaten to death by the Marauders and assumed that some random, horribly beaten redhead was Maddie and that his kid was dead. That's kind of why I like the original X-Factor it's three washed-up guys trying to regain their glory, a recently dead chick, and a horribly repressed walking nutcase being manipulated into starting a superhero team and hurting their own best interests by a genocidal terrorist posing as their friend.

He didn't abandon his wife and kid. uhuh

Besides, Maddie had already been in his head at this point.

What would you call walking out the door on his crying screaming wife and kid in X-Factor #1?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
What would you call walking out the door on his crying screaming wife and kid in X-Factor #1?

He was always going to come back, and iirc never said anything about wanting to end their marriage.

And when they went missing he was the one travelling across america trying to find her.

Yeah, after months of "nah, I won't call her, she dosn't pick up and she probably hates me and I definitely won't ask the X-Men...". It took Jean pressuring him after she coaxed the story out of him and Cameron Hodge leading him to a Daredevil style psychosis to go search for her. And then he sees the first redhead in a morgue, decides it's her, forgets his son, takes down Mastermold, and comes back in time to not prevent his friend's supposed suicide. Awesome.
As I recall, When those first 20 or so issues of X-Factor came out, people weren't defending Cyclops, they were going after Marvel exactly for the fact that they brought back Jean in a fashion that turned Scott Summers into an Ass Hole.
That's was one of the main themes of the original X-Factor's run (and possibly even before the with X-Men 201). Scott being horrible, facing the consequences of his actions, and then atoning for them.

* yes, it's the writers' fault, that's why they retconned some of it, like Madelyne messing Scott's head in his leadership duel against Storm... as far as i recall, the writers planned to make Scott and Madelyne "live happily ever after", and having him guest-star in X-men series in special occasions... but they really want to revive the original five X-men as the X-Terminators (X-Factor), so they went for it --- at Scott's expense...

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Yeah, after months of "nah, I won't call her, she dosn't pick up and she probably hates me and I definitely won't ask the X-Men...". It took Jean pressuring him after she coaxed the story out of him and Cameron Hodge leading him to a Daredevil style psychosis to go search for her. And then he sees the first redhead in a morgue, decides it's her, forgets his son, takes down Mastermold, and comes back in time to not prevent his friend's supposed suicide. Awesome.
As I recall, When those first 20 or so issues of X-Factor came out, people weren't defending Cyclops, they were going after Marvel exactly for the fact that they brought back Jean in a fashion that turned Scott Summers into an Ass Hole.
That's was one of the main themes of the original X-Factor's run (and possibly even before the with X-Men 201). Scott being horrible, facing the consequences of his actions, and then atoning for them.

I'm not saying that what he did was right, or that it was moral; I just don't consider it abandonment, because while it might have looked that way from Maddie's side, it never did on Cyclops' side.

Obviously the intention is that Cyclops is supposed to be a great leader and tactician. So he is up there with the best.

Now like most comic characters if you took the time to actually break down his plans you would probably think he wasn't but that's most comic characters.

Originally posted by peejayd
* yes, it's the writers' fault, that's why they retconned some of it, like Madelyne messing Scott's head in his leadership duel against Storm... as far as i recall, the writers planned to make Scott and Madelyne "live happily ever after", and having him guest-star in X-men series in special occasions... but they really want to revive the original five X-men as the X-Terminators (X-Factor), so they went for it --- at Scott's expense...

Actually, the more I think about it, Cyclops' whole Arc from Uncanny X-Men 198 through 201, then through all of the classic X-Factor and up to the mid-90's really is a good story of coming of age, fall, and redemption.

Originally posted by Newjak
Obviously the intention is that Cyclops is supposed to be a great leader and tactician. So he is up there with the best.

Now like most comic characters if you took the time to actually break down his plans you would probably think he wasn't but that's most comic characters.

For Kuurth alone, in the short span of time that they knew about him, he came up with over 26 plans to take him down.

Mayor: What if this doesn't stop him?
Cyclops: We go to Plan B.
Mayor: Plan B? You just keep going until you get to Z?
Cyclops: That would insinuate I only have 26 plans.

Not verbatim, but something along those lines.

Overall, I'd say Cyclops is a good leader/tactician. Great, actually.

Originally posted by -Pr-
At the very least, one of the best tacticians/strategists/leaders in Marvel.
This.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Second only to Cap in some cases, superior in others.
Not this.



"Leader" and "tactician" are really seperate skills and don't necessarily go together.


Leader:
I think it's unfair to compare Scott to cosmic-level characters and gods, so we'll just keep it restricted to Earth.

Ignoring what happens when you put Cyclops in a room with a hot telepath unsupervised, and focus ONLY on his performance during combat and team interaction, he is in the top ten but not the top five leaders. Cap, Fury, Doom, Magneto and T'challa command more respect and loyalty in my opinion. Keep in mind that three of these men have ruled their own countries, the collection of M day survivors Scott leads is simply not as impressive in comparison.


Tactician:
This is my comfort zone. I have been studying real-life tacticians and strategists all my life.

Once again, Cyclops in in the top ten, but can't crack the top five. Given equal strength forces and battle conditions, I think Cap, Fury, Doom, Sage and Mentac, The Living Computer (look him up!) could beat him. Reed Richards could beat Scott if he had proper time to plan, and Cable could beat him if there was no time to plan and all decisions would have to be made on the fly during combat. There is also the Gamesmaster, but I won't count him since he might all well be cosmic. Smart Alec deserves honorable mention as well, but can't handle the pressure of combat. He'd smash Scott at a game of chess though.

I know it seems like I'm bashing, but I'm really not trying to. The company Cyclops is in regarding leadership and tactics is quite impressive.

p.s.
Darth. Stop it now. Just stop. Take it from me, trying to convince Cyclops fanboys that their guy is a dirtbag is like trying to teach Zen to a bunch of monkeys. You won't succeed and you will get frustrated.

I don't agree, tbh.

And no, he's not a dirtbag.

At least he wasn't until Fraction and Kyle/Yost came along.

He's either the 1st or 2nd best leader in comics.

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Darth. Stop it now. Just stop. Take it from me, trying to convince Cyclops fanboys that their guy is a dirtbag is like trying to teach Zen to a bunch of monkeys. You won't succeed and you will get frustrated.

He all I said was he had a good character arc of fall and redemption and that his impressive leadership and tactical skills are hampered by his personal life's disastrous interference with his professional.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
He all I said was he had a good character arc of fall and redemption and that his impressive leadership and tactical skills are hampered by his personal life's disastrous interference with his professional.

And you'd be right.

Originally posted by Sabretooth
"Leader" and "tactician" are really seperate skills and don't necessarily go together.


Leader:
I think it's unfair to compare Scott to cosmic-level characters and gods, so we'll just keep it restricted to Earth.

Ignoring what happens when you put Cyclops in a room with a hot telepath unsupervised, and focus ONLY on his performance during combat and team interaction, he is in the top ten but not the top five leaders. Cap, Fury, Doom, Magneto and T'challa command more respect and loyalty in my opinion. Keep in mind that three of these men have ruled their own countries, the collection of M day survivors Scott leads is simply not as impressive in comparison.

* mind you, one of your list just kneeled in front of Scott with utter submission, and as of today, he is still on Scott's side...

* what happens when you put Cyclops in a room with a hot telepath unsupervised? do you realize that telepaths are attracted to Scott, and not the other way around?

* as much as i hate to use Namor's argument, but being a "leader" and being a "ruler" are also two different things... Namor acknowledges and respects Scott's leadership, but he says Scott's "rulership" sucks...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Tactician:
This is my comfort zone. I have been studying real-life tacticians and strategists all my life.

Once again, Cyclops in in the top ten, but can't crack the top five. Given equal strength forces and battle conditions, I think Cap, Fury, Doom, Sage and Mentac, The Living Computer (look him up!) could beat him. Reed Richards could beat Scott if he had proper time to plan, and Cable could beat him if there was no time to plan and all decisions would have to be made on the fly during combat. There is also the Gamesmaster, but I won't count him since he might all well be cosmic. Smart Alec deserves honorable mention as well, but can't handle the pressure of combat. He'd smash Scott at a game of chess though.

I know it seems like I'm bashing, but I'm really not trying to. The company Cyclops is in regarding leadership and tactics is quite impressive.

* in the "Origins of the Marvel Universe" graphic novel, Steve Rogers said on his files that Scott is a charismatic, powerful and effective leader, and strategic and tactical genius...

* Nick Fury's files says Scott is a natural born leader and a master strategist, the less time he has to hink, the better...

* he was the first one who taught Cable basic (to advanced) survival skills (when he was talking to Hope in Negative Zone)...

Originally posted by Sabretooth


p.s.
Darth. Stop it now. Just stop. Take it from me, trying to convince Cyclops fanboys that their guy is a dirtbag is like trying to teach Zen to a bunch of monkeys. You won't succeed and you will get frustrated.

* another one of your anti-Cyclops rant? thanks for admitting you're not succeeding and you're frustrated... btw, defending Scott is not being a fanboy... we're not arguing that Scott can beat Thanos, are we?

Scott Summers is a damn good leader. Been an X-Man since the age of 15. I think he is a great tactician and it might have to do with his genes. His father was leader of the Starammers,his brother Havok is a leader,his son Cable was a leader and great tactician too.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't agree, tbh.

And no, he's not a dirtbag.
We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Originally posted by peejayd
* mind you, one of your list just kneeled in front of Scott with utter submission, and as of today, he is still on Scott's side...
Cyclops followed the lead of Professor X for years. I guess that makes Charles a better leader by your logic. You know, I think you're right. I now consider Professor X a better leader than Scott, so he's also on my list. Scott still can't crack my top five.

Originally posted by peejayd
* do you realize that telepaths are attracted to Scott, and not the other way around?
So you're saying he wasn't attracted to Jean, Betsy, OR Emma??!?

So does that make him gay or dead?

Usually you make at least somewhat valid points. Ima forget about this one and give you a chance the read what you typed again without the ruby lens glasses on.

Scott needs to have at least some accountability for his personal life. He's a grown-ass man, makes his own decisions, and needs to own up to the consequences of his actions without making excuses. I'm pretty sure he'll just keep sulking through life, waiting for hairy, industructible mutants to tell him what a dirtbag he is, so he can blast them through windows though...

Originally posted by peejayd
* as much as i hate to use Namor's argument, but being a "leader" and being a "ruler" are also two different things... Namor acknowledges and respects Scott's leadership, but he says Scott's "rulership" sucks...
Agreed. Storm is a better ruler than Scott, but she's not on the list because he's a better leader. I still say everybody else I named commands more loyalty and respect.


Originally posted by peejayd
* in the "Origins of the Marvel Universe" graphic novel, Steve Rogers said on his files that Scott is a charismatic, powerful and effective leader, and strategic and tactical genius...

* Nick Fury's files says Scott is a natural born leader and a master strategist, the less time he has to hink, the better...

* he was the first one who taught Cable basic (to advanced) survival skills (when he was talking to Hope in Negative Zone)...
And what do you think Scott's files say about Cap and Fury?

As for Cable, I agree. he got his start in the art of warfare from one of the best. Somebody also was Bruce Lee's first teacher. It doesn't make him better than Bruce, just the first to teach him.

I'll also add the Punisher to the list of people who can out-think Scott tactically as long as the fight is one on one.

Seriously people. He's NOT Marvel's answer to Batman. That statment sounds just as stupid as saying Wolverine can take Thanos.

Originally posted by peejayd
* another one of your anti-Cyclops rant? thanks for admitting you're not succeeding and you're frustrated... btw, defending Scott is not being a fanboy... we're not arguing that Scott can beat Thanos, are we?
I love it when fanboys try and justify their fanboyism to me.

Seriously people. He's NOT Marvel's answer to Batman. That statment sounds just as stupid as saying Wolverine can take Thanos.

By the way, how's that trying to convince the public that Marvel's most popular hero ever really sucks going for you peejayd? Still haven't succeeded huh? Well, keep trying. Everybody but you has got to be wrong one of these days...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
So you're saying he wasn't attracted to Jean, Betsy, OR Emma??!?

he was attracted to all three. is it any coincidence, though, that all three women were the aggressors in trying to start something? jean came on to him. betsy came on to him. emma came on to him. he reacted. scott has, for years, been naturally attractive to telepathic women.



he has done. more than once.

and logan is in no position to talk down to scott, tbh.



scott was never meant to be a ruler. that was supposed to be charles' job. scott is, or at least was before their character assassination, doing a decent job of it imo.



popularity is only a measuring stick of that: popularity. just because something is popular doesn't make it superior.

Originally posted by -Pr- logan is in no position to talk down to scott, tbh.
True that. He's probably the only X-Man that is a bigger man-whore than Scott.

Originally posted by -Pr- scott was never meant to be a ruler. that was supposed to be charles' job. scott is, or at least was before their character assassination, doing a decent job of it imo.
Maybe Marvel should make Storm the ruler and Scott the true power behind the throne.

Originally posted by -Pr- popularity is only a measuring stick of that: popularity. just because something is popular doesn't make it superior.
That statment was a response to peejayd's anti-Cyclops rant accusation. I was just basically saying people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

For the record, I'm no Wolverine fanboy. Far from. I like the character, but I can admit he's not the best a everything he does.

Sabretooth is. The best at everything he does. Everything.

Maybe someday we'll find something Sabretooth isn't the best at. And if that day ever comes, I'll be the first to admit it.

Reed Richards school him as a leader too.

Originally posted by Sabretooth




Maybe someday we'll find something Sabretooth isn't the best at. And if that day ever comes, I'll be the first to admit it.

Beating Omega Red.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Reed Richards school him as a leader too.

I thought about him, but I don't think Reed would have any hope of getting the "gruff loner" that is Wolverine to play team ball. Point Scott.

Imo scott is arguably the best tactican and strategist in Marvel. As far as being a "leader", that's something else.

There are few who can make a plan come together like Cyke.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Imo scott is arguably the best tactican and strategist in Marvel. As far as being a "leader", that's something else.
If you REALLY want to open up the "All of Marvel" box, I have to say that's a pretty strong statment. I don't think Scott would have any chance against Loki, Warlock, Thanos or just about any cosmic level characters who have minds that work in ways Scott could barely comprehend with his mortal mind. We're talking about Universal Forces and GODS here. Characters that have the wisdom and experience of eons. Think about it.

Originally posted by Sabretooth
If you REALLY want to open up the "All of Marvel" box, I have to say that's a pretty strong statment. I don't think Scott would have any chance against Loki, Warlock, Thanos or just about any cosmic level characters who have minds that work in ways Scott could barely comprehend with his mortal mind. We're talking about Universal Forces and GODS here. Characters that have the wisdom and experience of eons. Think about it.

scott has raw talent though. i mean, you can have plenty of knowledge and experience, but being able to think strategically is something that is very hard to learn at all, never mind learn well.

Look at the kind of people who have deferred to Scott's leadership in the past; it's a long list.

The same can be said of any of the talented strategists as well. No way Scott figures out a way to get the Infinity Gauntlet off Thanos' hand. Warlock was all over that.

Originally posted by Sabretooth
The same can be said of any of the talented strategists as well. No way Scott figures out a way to get the Infinity Gauntlet off Thanos' hand. Warlock was all over that.

i don't agree, tbh. Cyclops has shown an unusual ability to feint and double feint his opponents, and has shown an unerring ability to have plans to suit any situation.

He just tends to lack the firepower within himself or his team. Look at Kuurth, for example.

Originally posted by Sabretooth
I thought about him, but I don't think Reed would have any hope of getting the "gruff loner" that is Wolverine to play team ball. Point Scott.

Reed don't need Wolverine.
He can build gun that puncture celestials.
... And he's the longuest running leader around.

Point Richards

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Reed don't need Wolverine.
He can build gun that puncture celestials.
... And he's the longuest running leader around.

Point Richards

Being smart doesn't make him a leader. It makes him a genius. And just because he's led a four man team this long doesn't make him a great leader.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i don't agree, tbh. Cyclops has shown an unusual ability to feint and double feint his opponents, and has shown an unerring ability to have plans to suit any situation.

He just tends to lack the firepower within himself or his team. Look at Kuurth, for example.

Kuurth is FAR from the strategist and forwand-thinker Thanos is. He's just a thug who is really,really powerful. Batman might be the only mortal I think would have a shot at taking down Thanos.

Sorry man, I don't think the good guys would have beaten Thanos if Scott was in charge. As I've stated before Cyclops isn't Marvel's answer to Batman.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Reed don't need Wolverine.
He can build gun that puncture celestials.
... And he's the longuest running leader around.

Point Richards
What does any of that have to do with getting people to do what you tell them?

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Kuurth is FAR from the strategist and forwand-thinker Thanos is. He's just a thug who is really,really powerful. Batman might be the only mortal I think would have a shot at taking down Thanos.

Sorry man, I don't think the good guys would have beaten Thanos if Scott was in charge. As I've stated before Cyclops isn't Marvel's answer to Batman.


What does any of that have to do with getting people to do what you tell them?

I wasn't talking about Kuurth's intelligence; I was talking about his raw power.

Warren Ellis disagrees with you.

Even then, though, he doesn't have to be Batman to be one of the best.

Earlier you said "Scott is arguably THE best tactican in Marvel". Now you have changed your statment to Scott is only "ONE OF the best".

I'll agree with the latter. No way on the former.

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Earlier you said "Scott is arguably THE best tactican in Marvel". Now you have changed your statment to Scott is only "ONE OF the best".

I'll agree with the latter. No way on the former.

the terms aren't mutually exclusive, and yes, i believe you could make a case for him being that good.

so no, i'm just elaborating, not changing my mind.

in terms of being a leader, i'd say he's easily top two in terms of actual, tactical team leading.

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Cyclops followed the lead of Professor X for years. I guess that makes Charles a better leader by your logic. You know, I think you're right. I now consider Professor X a better leader than Scott, so he's also on my list. Scott still can't crack my top five.

* i don't get this... i was talking about Magneto...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
So you're saying he wasn't attracted to Jean, Betsy, OR Emma??!?

So does that make him gay or dead?

* well, as expected, you retorted to dumb responses... just what Pr had said, they came on to him and Scott reacted... on your previous post, you imply that Scott will transform into a love-crazed puppet if you put him in a room with a hot telepath unsupervised... i'm just telling you that's not his character...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
As for Cable, I agree. he got his start in the art of warfare from one of the best. Somebody also was Bruce Lee's first teacher. It doesn't make him better than Bruce, just the first to teach him.

* Cable had said he was taught by one of the best... or maybe he's biased because he is his father...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
I'll also add the Punisher to the list of people who can out-think Scott tactically as long as the fight is one on one.

* a nudge to Castle in one-on-one... but never on team-versus-team tactics...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
I love it when fanboys try and justify their fanboyism to me.

* no problem... i always facepalm when desperate people tries to brand his opponent a fanboy, just to create a valid argument...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Seriously people. He's NOT Marvel's answer to Batman.

* seriously? Marvel has no answer to Batman... DC practically hyped his reputation as the god of detective skills and the god of prep... Cyclops is not Batgod...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
That statment sounds just as stupid as saying Wolverine can take Thanos.

* you're just frustrated, dude... admit it...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
By the way, how's that trying to convince the public that Marvel's most popular hero ever really sucks going for you peejayd? Still haven't succeeded huh? Well, keep trying. Everybody but you has got to be wrong one of these days...

* kidding aside, dude... when Scott stepped off from the shadows of Jean and Xavier, he's at his best in my opinion... and even way back until the road to X-men's Schism, when Marvel's most popular and overrated hero acknowledged that he would follow Scott's lead even in hell --- i already succeeded...

* by the way, Wolverine is just a blemish now... more recently, it was Namor who's getting in my nerves...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
That statment was a response to peejayd's anti-Cyclops rant accusation. I was just basically saying people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

For the record, I'm no Wolverine fanboy. Far from. I like the character, but I can admit he's not the best a everything he does.

Sabretooth is. The best at everything he does. Everything.

Maybe someday we'll find something Sabretooth isn't the best at. And if that day ever comes, I'll be the first to admit it.

* how could anyone mistake you for a Wolverine-fanboy? your username, sig and avvy says it all...

I think Schism showcased Scott's ascendance into a true leader and tactician and one of the best. When you have a character like Wolverine who is right now hyped as the most iconic X-Man (because of the X-Men movies) would rather blow up their home Utopia and even risk killing mutants just to flee from a robot you know something is wrong. You would have thought that rallying everyone to stand and fight would be his doing,but no,it was Scott who stood and fight.It was his determination that made the other mutants band together and defeat the sentinel. When you have people like Magneto,Namor praising Cyclops as a leader and standing by his side after others left that shows something.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm140/slim_dayspring/Decorated%20images/x-menschism05rznpg22-2.jpg

Originally posted by mastagambit
I think Schism showcased Scott's ascendance into a true leader and tactician and one of the best. When you have a character like Wolverine who is right now hyped as the most iconic X-Man (because of the X-Men movies) would rather blow up their home Utopia and even risk killing mutants just to flee from a robot you know something is wrong. You would have thought that rallying everyone to stand and fight would be his doing,but no,it was Scott who stood and fight.It was his determination that made the other mutants band together and defeat the sentinel. When you have people like Magneto,Namor praising Cyclops as a leader and standing by his side after others left that shows something.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm140/slim_dayspring/Decorated%20images/x-menschism05rznpg22-2.jpg

* other people don't see it like that though... they see Scott as a murderer esp in AvX and when he initiated X-Force... one of the best tacticians, Scott even managed to hold off Dracula with a bluff, that's freakin' awesome... and in somewhat part of his "showing off", i read somewhere that he's quite insulted when he was being asked if he has a Plan B, replying that the person asking was implying he has only 26 plans in his head...

Yup, that was during Fear Itself.

Current Cyclops is such a good leader.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yup, that was during Fear Itself.

* yes, and although i would love Scott showing off his GOML blast, his spatial awareness ricocheting blasts and his h2h skills every single comic he's in, i'd also want the writers to showcase his outstanding strategic and tactical skills...

The character of Cyclops always bored me as a child, but I've never once doubted his ability as a leader.

I think comparing anyone to Batman is unfair, as DC seems to have a hard-on for making him infallible.

according to Marvel he is a good leader people follow conviction not always the good guy.
He is a good leader his successes make him so.
Patton slapped the crap- out of a soldier suffering from ptsd insulted those commie bastard soviets and caused embarrassment many times and had his command stripped and given back not because ol blood and guts was a decent person but because he was one hell of a leader and a tactician.

Originally posted by Jedi Sheriff
The character of Cyclops always bored me as a child,

Same here and still sorta does.