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1. Shield

2. No shield.

Who wins?

Originally posted by cdtm
1. Shield

2. No shield.

Who wins?


Is this

1) Felicia Hardy, who is better known as Spider-Man's "Black Cat",

2) Wildcat of DC's Justice Society of America,

or

3) some third character that I'm not familiar with?

how can you not be familiar with Julie "The Cat" Gaffney?

He's pretty obscure, so not surprised no one's heard of him. I only know of him because I've been gorging on 1970's Marvel martial arts lately.

Basically, he's Shangs peer in every way.. He's not a villain, he's just another Martial Arts master who happened to run into Shang Chi a number of times, and whom Shang could not defeat, or vice versa.

Not sure what a good analogy would be, but the bottom line is the two are so evenly matched, that they would have ended up killing each other.

Here's some of his best feats:





http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/th_HeroesForHire11p05.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/th_HeroesForHire11p08.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/th_HeroesForHire11p09.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/th_CableDeadpool07200405.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/th_CableDeadpool07200406.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/th_CableDeadpool07200407.jpg

It may not be much, but it's quality over quantity.

Siding with Shen Kuei.

Blitzing Danny f'n Rand alone would be enough, but handling Deadpool so easily cinches it. Cap's always had Wades number, but he's never taken him down as casually as Cat did.

Cap 7-8/10

hth 7

shield 8

Believing Cap wins, I have no problem with. But there's no reasonable way he's taking more than a slim margin over someone Shang Chi couldn't beat. Not any more than Cap takes more than a slim margin over Shang Chi himself, one of the top five martial artists in Marvel (If not THE top martial artist.)

He defeated Danny due to surprise. In the rematch a focused Danny defeated him rather easily as also did Taskmaster.

Either way Cap wins more then the Cat. Plus I'm not impressed with his victory over Deadpools since Wade practically worships him.

There's no reasonable way the Cat is taking a slim margin over Cap even if you disagree with my 7-8/10 majority stance.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
He defeated Danny due to surprise.

Translation: He outfought Danny.

Danny made the slightest mistake, in the middle of a confrontation, and got blitzed. Black Panther had far more extensive, and cheaper, openings, and couldn't put him down with his attacks.

Before unlike vs Panther, before the distraction they were dead even.

Also, what rematch? The v1 Heroes for Hire series only went for 19 issues and one annual, and I'm pretty sure issue 11 is the only time they meet..

In 12, Danny has a rematch with one of the villains, who also matches him in martial arts, but it's not Cat.

wow people here are nuts, captain america easily takes him out, and yes captain america vs shang chi will go the same way, both cat and shang are very skilled however they are facing someone who not only can match their skill level but basically got all stats to much higher degree, cap doesnt tire out but cat will tire, with the shield its an overkill for cap he can basically just hold his shield and let cat break his arms trying to punch it Lol

P.S the revamped Captain america thread is more than half done, i actually took all my cap comics and ordered from ebay others that i dont have just for that, i devided it not only into strength,fighting skills, speed, reflex, durability,stamina, shield showings, leadership showings, other skill showings, but i also devided it into timeline groups, i am basically putting all his feats into those categories from the 60s the 70s the 80s the 90s the 2000s and from 2010 and so on, so people could also see the difference from lets say his 70s strength feats and his more recent strength feats and that way people can also more easily compare how he was portrayed thruought the years and what are the changes, puting a lot of time money and effort into this hope you will like it.

Originally posted by red sabre
wow people here are nuts, captain america easily takes him out, and yes captain america vs shang chi will go the same way, both cat and shang are very skilled however they are facing someone who not only can match their skill level but basically got all stats to much higher degree, cap doesnt tire out but cat will tire, with the shield its an overkill for cap he can basically just hold his shield and let cat break his arms trying to punch it Lol

P.S the revamped Captain america thread is more than half done, i actually took all my cap comics and ordered from ebay others that i dont have just for that, i devided it not only into strength,fighting skills, speed, reflex, durability,stamina, shield showings, leadership showings, other skill showings, but i also devided it into timeline groups, i am basically putting all his feats into those categories from the 60s the 70s the 80s the 90s the 2000s and from 2010 and so on, so people could also see the difference from lets say his 70s strength feats and his more recent strength feats and that way people can also more easily compare how he was portrayed thruought the years and what are the changes, puting a lot of time money and effort into this hope you will like it. That's awesome. Hope its good.

Originally posted by cdtm
Also, what rematch? The v1 Heroes for Hire series only went for 19 issues and one annual, and I'm pretty sure issue 11 is the only time they meet..

In 12, Danny has a rematch with one of the villains, who also matches him in martial arts, but it's not Cat.


LOL that you didn't know Danny re-fought the Cat and defeated him easily.

Originally posted by cdtm
Translation: He outfought Danny.

Danny made the slightest mistake, in the middle of a confrontation, and got blitzed. Black Panther had far more extensive, and cheaper, openings, and couldn't put him down with his attacks.

Before unlike vs Panther, before the distraction they were dead even.


Translation: He won with circumstances.


Danny wouldn't normally make that mistake. Hence the rematch he didn't and won easily.

Yes!!!!!!!!!! I'm looking forward to it red sabre.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
LOL that you didn't know Danny re-fought the Cat and defeated him easily.

Because you're the most credible source, and not prone to bias. Riiiight.

Based on your posting history, I'm calling for issue and/or scan, or it didn't happen.

I have all 19 issues, and I'm not seeing this rematch. The fight happens in 11, the team gets captured by Silver Sables team, they talk through the misunderstanding that lead to the fight in the first place, and we never see Cat again.

And regardless of any supposed "rematch", you're ignoring that Black Panther, who could certainly hang with Cap in a fight, could not beat Danny down at all. With multiple distractions.

Nor, could Shang Chi beat Cat.

Originally posted by cdtm
Because you're the most credible source, and not prone to bias. Riiiight.

Based on your posting history, I'm calling for issue and/or scan, or it didn't happen.

I have all 19 issues, and I'm not seeing this rematch. The fight happens in 11, and we never see Cat again after he beats Danny, up to the end of the series.



Too bad for you then. Not my fault you don't have the fight Danny even mentions he only lost to the Cat due to being distracted and then goes on to defeat the Cat...LOL. Danny ended it with a high kick to boot.


And I see how you ignore Taskmaster defeating the Cat as well.

Originally posted by cdtm
And regardless of any supposed "rematch", you're ignoring that Black Panther, who could certainly hang with Cap in a fight, could not beat Danny down at all. With multiple distractions.

Nor, could Shang Chi beat Cat.


That fight between BP and Danny is different. That Danny would have wreaked the Cat. The Danny that defeated Cat easily wasn't trying to kill the Cat, like BP. Lucky for the Cat.


The Danny that was fighting BP was trying to kill the BP...LOL. While BP was in character the fact that BP could do what he did to Danny in that state is incredibly impressive.

Speaking about Bias? Coming from you that is a laugh.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Too bad for you then. Not my fault you don't have the fight

Neither do you, because there is no "other fight". I can't find a single website, post, or wiki on Cat that doesn't mention one, and ONLY one fight between Danny Rand and Shen Kuei.

You, my friend, are making shit up.



Danny didn't say that. But it's an easy mistake to make.. Not like the SCANS ARE RIGHT IN THIS THREAD.




Forgive me for not taking your word on it, but I'd like to see this for myself, since your memory is so bad you can't even remember details from scans that are posted right in front of you.

Post the scans, or give the issue numbers.

http://img168.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=66845_shen1_122_353lo.jpg

http://img157.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=66846_shen2_122_440lo.jpg

http://img34.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=66851_shen3_122_590lo.jpg

Originally posted by Daredevil1
http://img168.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=66845_shen1_122_353lo.jpg

http://img157.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=66846_shen2_122_440lo.jpg

http://img34.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=66851_shen3_122_590lo.jpg



Poor cdtm

Cat is great by defeating a distracted Danny.

And yet Danny straight up owns the Cat.

And he compares this fight to BP vs Danny...LOL.

Bias and doesn't know all about Cat's record.

And yes taskmaster defeated the Cat easily as well.

Originally posted by cdtm
Neither do you, because there is no "other fight". I can't find a single website, post, or wiki on Cat that doesn't mention one, and ONLY one fight between Danny Rand and Shen Kuei.

You, my friend, are making shit up.



Danny didn't say that. But it's an easy mistake to make.. Not like the SCANS ARE RIGHT IN THIS THREAD.




Forgive me for not taking your word on it, but I'd like to see this for myself, since your memory is so bad you can't even remember details from scans that are posted right in front of you.

Post the scans, or give the issue numbers.


I'm not making up anything. Danny owned Cat without circumstances. Circumstances that you use for a Cat win...LOL.

Cap 7-8/10

Also your comparison of BP vs Danny in comparison to Cat vs Danny is rather illogical at best.

DD, you should have posted the scans in the first place. That's how debating works.. Going the "LOL, I know something you don't know" route makes YOU look bad, not me.

But props for finally posting them. Yeah, those do make Danny look quite a bit above Cat. Do you know what comic this happens in?

Wonder what that says about how Danny stacks up against Shang Chi than? The two never really had many fights.. Their big one was back in a 1970's "Deadly Hands" black and white comic, but it's possible Danny could have gotten better than him since (And Shang did "retire" for awhile..)

Actually it makes me look great. Since you stated I'm making shit up...LOL.

Shows you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to comics or on logic of who wins in a vs.

Shang Chi, Danny Rand, Colleen Wing all on one team..

I believe that's the v2 Heroes for Hire. I take it the Taskmaster fight also happens there at some point?

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Actually it makes me look great. Since you stated I'm making shit up...LOL.

Shows you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to comics or on logic of who wins in a vs.

No.. no, you're pretty much making yourself look like a shit right now.

But carry on.

Originally posted by cdtm
No.. no, you're pretty much making yourself look like a shit right now.

But carry on.



Says you...LOL

cdtm makes it too easy.

Originally posted by cdtm
Siding with Shen Kuei.

Blitzing Danny f'n Rand alone would be enough, but handling Deadpool so easily cinches it. Cap's always had Wades number, but he's never taken him down as casually as Cat did. Cap always had Wade's number? They only fought twice. And it didnt go too well for Cap. As for the fight with Cat.. Deadpool is almost gay for him, so CIS was involved. I think Cap takes this.

Cap wins.

Originally posted by SamZED
Cap always had Wade's number? They only fought twice. And it didnt go too well for Cap. As for the fight with Cat.. Deadpool is almost gay for him, so CIS was involved. I think Cap takes this.

Wades last fight with Cap was under Daniel Way, wasn't it?

I know Way has a bad rep when it comes to healing factors, but he always seemed to right a fairly formidable Deadpool, and Cap basically dominated the fight, brief though it was..

Anyways, like I said earlier, even discounting Cat vs Deadpool, his early history is that of a martial artist on par with Shang Chi.

And while it's true he only beat Iron Fist on a distraction, he also seemed to match his skills. So with this history in mind, it looks like Shang = Cat = Danny on raw skill, up until we get to that second fight Daredevil posted where Danny basically punks him.

And I have absolutely no problem with Danny beating Cat, or even Shang Chi, on pure skill. But that "was" kind of easier than I think it should have been... I can't comment much more on that until I read the comic for myself though.

At this point though, I'm wondering if I overestimated the board consensus on how Shang Chi and Captain America stack up with each other.. I realize we have a segment that holds Wolverine in higher esteem than martial artists like Danny or Shang, and some feel that Captain America and Wolverine represent the very top of the martial arts tier in Marvel, and maybe in all comics, but I always figured them as a vocal minority.. (And I DO believe Wolverine, and of course Cap, is highly skilled in martial arts.)

Originally posted by YFZ 350
Cap wins.


Agreed. To strong, to durable, to fast, and very skilled.

Originally posted by SamZED
I think Cap takes this.



Agreed. Those that think Cat wins would probably be the minority.


Going by feats and fights. Caps just the over all package in comparison to this character.

Originally posted by cdtm
Wades last fight with Cap was under Daniel Way, wasn't it?

I know Way has a bad rep when it comes to healing factors, but he always seemed to right a fairly formidable Deadpool, and Cap basically dominated the fight, brief though it was..

Anyways, like I said earlier, even discounting Cat vs Deadpool, his early history is that of a martial artist on par with Shang Chi.

And while it's true he only beat Iron Fist on a distraction, he also seemed to match his skills. So with this history in mind, it looks like Shang = Cat = Danny on raw skill, up until we get to that second fight Daredevil posted where Danny basically punks him.

And I have absolutely no problem with Danny beating Cat, or even Shang Chi, on pure skill. But that "was" kind of easier than I think it should have been... I can't comment much more on that until I read the comic for myself though.

At this point though, I'm wondering if I overestimated the board consensus on how Shang Chi and Captain America stack up with each other.. I realize we have a segment that holds Wolverine in higher esteem than martial artists like Danny or Shang, and some feel that Captain America and Wolverine represent the very top of the martial arts tier in Marvel, and maybe in all comics, but I always figured them as a vocal minority.. (And I DO believe Wolverine, and of course Cap, is highly skilled in martial arts.) Yes, it was him. Way has his moments with Wade but usually his Deadpool isn't very impressive. In a recent issue he barely survived an ambush from Paste Pot Pete.

In their last fight DP wasn't fighting back though so it's hard to determine a winner. Their first fight ended with Deadpool's hand on Steve's neck and they seemd pretty close skill wise. DP even let Steve take some free shots. There was another short encounter in DP's first mini but it was so short and so full of CIS that it's not worth mentioning.

Im not arguing that Cat is on Shang's level of skill (and so must be Cap's peer) but Steve is physically superior and has more showings as well as impressive victories. That should count for something.

Originally posted by cdtm

At this point though, I'm wondering if I overestimated the board consensus on how Shang Chi and Captain America stack up with each other


Yeah, I think Cap is a touch above Shang, actually. Shang is somewhat faster (when he wore those bracers he was blocking bullets like wonder woman) but not stronger, and cap is absurdly durable. Skill is a toss up.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's awesome. Hope its good.

it should be, i already recieved all the comics i ordered and basically almost done with the job, in 2 more days we will have a revamped Cap respect thread with so many feats and categories you wont even believe

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Shang is somewhat faster (when he wore those bracers he was blocking bullets

dude are you still on with that crap? saying character A is faster than Cap because he can block bullets? was i talking to a wall when i gave you cap feats and showed you Cap outracing a bullet after it was shot and deflect it? or when i gave you random feats of cap dodging and avoiding bullets? avoiding 3 bullets shot at him at the same time? doing a matrix thing? and you try to tell me that holding your arms to the direction the bullets are fired is >>> all that? really? really??

http://www.westseattlefunblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/060512dude-really.jpg