Starkillers Clone

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Nephthys
I just want to ask for a consensus for whether people think we should seperate Galen Marek's feats from that of his clone.

Surely as a clone is a perfect replica of a person, then the past feats of Marek should be transferred on to his clone and vice versa. What do you guys think about this?

Pwned
Its my own thought that Vader would have enhanced the clone beyond the original. I mean, he didn't mean for the clone to go haywire and follow the original's path, so it stands to reason he would have made it even more pwoerful so it would get stuff done faster. Plus, he would think he could take it out.

So yes, I do think we should separate the clones abilities from Mareks.

Nephthys
Is that possible? How would Vader enhance the clone?

Pwned
Idk. He had access to Sidious' libraries, he could have used some sort of Sith ritual to do so. TFU displays him as the type of person to do so.

I'll look into ways to do it and update as I find them.

heitoi_which
Pwned makes a convincing argument for why Vader would seek to increase the clone's power, but honestly, he'd have just as much reason to limit the clone's abilities whenever possible considering what happened the last time Vader and Starkiller tangled.

But then the problem is whether or not TFU2 Marek is a clone at all. Vader says yes, Kota says no, the game attempts to treat it with a level of ambiguity.

Pwned
Alright, I looked around and stuff, and I came up with a couple ideas on how he could have:
1- Midichlorians are living organisms in the cells, so when you clone the larger organism, some midichlorians are cloned as well. It would also explain why Jorus C'baoth was called a -meh- Jedi Master, while Joruus C'baoth was able to overpower Luke and Mara. -I see this as the most likely.
2- Seeing as how Plagueis studied Midichlorians and could manipulate them, it is not unreasonable to say that he recorded his data and methods somewhere. Give Vader scientists, a lab, the records (most likely in Palpatines library) and time, and he could feasibly cause the midichlorians to duplicate themselves. He had all those resources as the Emperors Fist, so its possible.
3- They wanted to make the player feel more badass.
4- PIS.
5- Canadians. shifty

Lord Lucien
We're clever like that.

Pwned
disgust





fish
Thats what we think of you Canadians......

Nephthys
Originally posted by Pwned
Alright, I looked around and stuff, and I came up with a couple ideas on how he could have:
1- Midichlorians are living organisms in the cells, so when you clone the larger organism, some midichlorians are cloned as well. It would also explain why Jorus C'baoth was called a -meh- Jedi Master, while Joruus C'baoth was able to overpower Luke and Mara. -I see this as the most likely.
2- Seeing as how Plagueis studied Midichlorians and could manipulate them, it is not unreasonable to say that he recorded his data and methods somewhere. Give Vader scientists, a lab, the records (most likely in Palpatines library) and time, and he could feasibly cause the midichlorians to duplicate themselves. He had all those resources as the Emperors Fist, so its possible.
3- They wanted to make the player feel more badass.
4- PIS.
5- Canadians. shifty

I'm not convinced that its possible. Theres no indication that its possible to enhance or limit a Force Sensitive clones power in the Force, nor that Palpatine would -or did- allow Vader access to his greatest secret, the ability to manipulate midi-chlorians.

Pwned
Eh, its speculation no matter how you phrase it. Those are just my opinions and scenarios I could think of.


Problem is, we can't rely on what Vader tells him because Vader is attempting to re-establish control over him (leads to a Kreia-scenario of statements being untrustworthy)

I'll keep checking around, and see if I can get some more plausible things.

I'll pull a Battlemaster here- Theres no evidence saying you can't enhance a clones power, so clearly you can!

Arhael
The clone used darkside and madness was his main source of power. It's just another perfect example that darkside gives greater power.
It's like Meetra Surik was - a meh, while Nihilus is over-hyped to have irresistible drain and even to be able to suck from Palpatine and Luke. No, not in that way!

Pwned
Was the clone done through a Spaarti? If it was, maybe it was done the same way as the Wayland clones, and created in a void in the Force. That may cause the midichlorians to be more effective. Idk.

Arhael
In Thrawn Trilogy using Isalamiri only allowed faster growing, so clones didn't become mad like Joorus or died.
Sidious seemed more powerful in his clones but we, also, know that newer bodies were decaying much faster, which could mean that he no longer needed to restrain himself to sustain his body and abused Force on bigger scale.
With introduction of Abeloth and Vitiate Midichlorians don't matter anymore. Vitiate in his voices is as powerful as in original body. And Abeloth was as powerful in non-sensitive bodies, the only problem was that those bodies couldn't contain her for long.

Also, considering feats of original Marek, I don't see any room for improvement. smile

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Arhael
In Thrawn Trilogy using Isalamiri Muslim Thrawn?

Battlemaster
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Muslim Thrawn?


laughing laughing laughing

"Islamamiri" stick out tongue



Islamamiri: "We refer to your "Force" as Allah - and Dooku is our Prophet - may peace be upon him.

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/dae64f46.jpg

Allah Hafiz.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Nephthys
I just want to ask for a consensus for whether people think we should seperate Galen Marek's feats from that of his clone.

Surely as a clone is a perfect replica of a person, then the past feats of Marek should be transferred on to his clone and vice versa. What do you guys think about this? They should be separated, for the simple fact that there is a decent chance of them being separate characters, and it is just safer to separate the feats of both so as to not inspire anusballs.

RE: Blaxican
Originally posted by Battlemaster
laughing laughing laughing

"Islamamiri" stick out tongue



Islamamiri: "We refer to your "Force" as Allah - and Dooku is our Prophet - may peace be upon him.

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/dae64f46.jpg

Allah Hafiz. Ah, Janus.

Master_Galen
DE Sidious's clone body feats are counted with Sidious's feats, I see no reason why Starkiller's should be seperated from Galen Marek's.

Nephthys
That would be my thinking. A clone is a clone after all. Logically they should be the same, Force-wise. I just don't see the point in seperating them other than that they might technically not have done the feats that the other has. As a clone, that doesn't matter imo.

And if he's not a clone, even better.

Master_Galen
Originally posted by Nephthys
And if he's not a clone, even better.

They were both referred to as Subject 1138. Coincidence, I think not.

Pwned
Originally posted by Master_Galen
DE Sidious's clone body feats are counted with Sidious's feats, I see no reason why Starkiller's should be seperated from Galen Marek's. The thing is, Marek's clone was flash trained with his memories, while Sidious directly transferred his essence into his clones. That makes a world of difference to me.

Arhael
Why it matters? Did clone do anything original couldn't? Did he surpass original in anything? The only thing I am aware of that stands out is that he beat Vader but so did original one.

Pwned
Yeah, the clone showed a LOT more stuff than the original. The designers wanted a bigger WOW factor.

Lord Lucien
Which is why in the next game, Vader/Palpatine and the clone's climactic duel will be even more epic than the second game.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Arhael
Why it matters? Did clone do anything original couldn't? Did he surpass original in anything? The only thing I am aware of that stands out is that he beat Vader but so did original one.

The clone had better TK feats. But didn't show much in Sabers. Except stalemating Vader. Whilst the Original beat Vader and just had better Saber showings and statements.

Darth Truculent
I have a friend who worked on both projects and he said don't expect another TFU game for awhile because they are out of material. Why? Luke comes into the picture and you can't exactly have the son of the Chosen One alongside a new insanely powerful Jedi Knight.

Reason why Marek had trouble beating Vader in the 2nd one is due to the 2 lightsabers. The Jar'Kai fighting technique is far more difficult to master, especially while employing Juyo. Although defending against 2 lightsabers seems impossible, it can be done. Darth Power has it perfectly written.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
I have a friend who___ I love it when Internet poster do this.

Arhael
What actual TK feats clone showed that it compares to moving star destroyer, pulling Vader's lightsaber away, lifting him up and at the same time throwing objects at him?

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Arhael
What actual TK feats clone showed that it compares to moving star destroyer, pulling Vader's lightsaber away, lifting him up and at the same time throwing objects at him?

Literally controlling a Frigate under his own power. Walking through it's reactor core, without being touched, and finally exploding the Frigate into a million pieces (and surviving that!)

Nephthys

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys
And remember Arheal, this is the guy who was no match for Sidious and struggled against Vader. Still think C'baoth is more powerful than Palpatine? wink

It was kind of silly though him stalemating Vader after those crazy ass feats.

He must be crap in Sabers (as of TFUII). That's the only explanation.

I don't recall him having any notable Saber feats or descriptions of his style being particularly good in TFUII.

ares834
Or, god forbid, Vader's just that good.

DARTH POWER
We need Saber feats from TFUII Galen to know how good "that good" is.

And nothing will change the fact that Lucas says in the ANH commentary that the Lightsaber fight in that movie wasn't as good as the prequel ones because Vader is crippled and Ben is old.

ares834
Lucas then contradicts this statement with character like Dooku and Grievous.

Edit: Not to mention he also places Vader at 80% of Palps.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by ares834
Lucas then contradicts this statement with character like Dooku and Grievous.

Just because Dooku was capable at an old age doesn't mean Ben would be too.

George Foreman was boxing in his old age. Doesn't mean any boxer can.

So that's not necessarily a contradiction at all.

Grievous was 100% Cyborg, so they could construct an entire mechanical body for him making it as fast and agile as they wanted.


Originally posted by ares834
Edit: Not to mention he also places Vader at 80% of Palps.

Not talking about overall power. Just Saber ability.

But even in the Force his feats don't come close to Galen's.

ares834
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Just because Dooku was capable at an old age doesn't mean Ben would be too.

George Foreman was boxing in his old age. Doesn't mean any boxer can.

So that's not necessarily a contradiction at all.

Grievous was 100% Cyborg, so they could construct an entire mechanical body for him making it as fast and agile as they wanted.

It is a contradiction. Lucas was stating that the reason Kenobi's skills weren't up to par was because he was old. It's age that prevented him from being up to skill hence referring to him as an "old man". The notion being here, old men aren't energetic duelists. Similarly, with Vader, in this case it being because he was part machine, yet with Greivous we see this isn't the case.

Not that it matters. Lucas doesn't say they weren't skilled combatants but rather that they aren't as energetic.

SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, just because Vader doesn't do a bunch of back flips, or leaps all over the place like Ventress or Yoda doesn't mean that his defenses and saber strikes are not fast and sufficient.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, just because Vader doesn't do a bunch of back flips, or leaps all over the place like Ventress or Yoda doesn't mean that his defenses and saber strikes are not fast and sufficient.

Firstly it's not my argument. It's Lucas's. It is a crap argument. I hated it when I heard him say that. But he still said it and that can't be changed (unless he specifically takes it back).

Secondly whether it's true or not we still need Saber feats from Vader that put him in league with say ROTS Obi-Wan. I don't think anyone would put him above that level (in Sabers that is).

BlackZero30x
Originally posted by Nephthys
That would be my thinking. A clone is a clone after all. Logically they should be the same, Force-wise. I just don't see the point in seperating them other than that they might technically not have done the feats that the other has. As a clone, that doesn't matter imo.

And if he's not a clone, even better.

Was it ever stated as a fact that he was a clone? Based on anything other then just Vaders say so that is.

Even if he is just a clone though I don't see why they wouldn't count. What I got from reading the books and playing the games Starkiller had a flash back to this quote "We are not limited by the force, The force is limited by us by our minds" or at least something similar. So it was my understanding that in TFUII that because of his "memory loss" and thanks to his flashbacks it was easier for him to accept and understand that his only limitation was the one he set for himself. Kind of like the matrix in a way.

GenomeFrozener
Pretty sure he's a clone.

Lord Lucien
Until the next game or something comes out and declares him to be "not a clone", he's a clone. Not to mention this picture:

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/d/de/Galen_Marek%27s_dead_body.png

BlackZero30x
Ok I was just wondering if it was ever stated for sure if if it was just Vaders trickery to manipulate him into becoming his apprentice again.

Either way I stick by my other point.

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