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This is my first VS battle and sorry if it was done already but here are 2 great pairs going head-to-head! ALL OUT BATTLE, and they use whatever they normally do for a battle!

Battleground: Tatooine: Mos Eisley Cantina
Distance Appart: 10 meters

I say Sidious and Exar Kun win lightsaber combat but Bane and Revan win a Force Powers

How Bane and Revan can win with Force powers, if Bane was less powerful than his apprentice and Revan was less powerful than Vitiate?

Arhael, Bane actually should have won that fight. A Deus Ex Machina was invoked, and Bane actually did nearly win.

First: Does Bane have his orbalisks?

Second: I see it being Revan vs Kun, and Bane vs Sidious to start. Revan will take Kun down fairly quickly (due to Kun being a *****) and Sidious and Bane will definately draw out. Though if Sidious tries to lightninzor, it will probably be pretty ineffective. Bane can defend against it, and Revan can catch it.

Bane was definitely better, than Zannah with lightsaber but not in power. She was on the offensive with the Force whole fight and, when Bane went on the offensive with Dark Transfer, his spirit was weaker.

Sidious lightning has never been ineffective. Even in RotS, where he was out of form. Revan might be unable to absorb it same way as Vitiate's. Well, I might be wrong because his lightning didn't do a thing to DE Luke. But assuming that Sidious lightning is weaker, than Vitiate's makes no sense. Lightning intensity depends on power levels and Sidious is considered the most powerful. If his lightning sucks, then I don't see any point of having that power.

About Bane I don't know. But Obralisk can be deciding factor.
As for Kun vs revan, Kun has much more feats with the Force, has his potential boosted by talismans and, unlike Revan, has lightsaber combat feats and pretty good ones.

Kun doesn't really have jack in the way of saber feats that can't be chalked down to, "I made a whole new type of saber. None of you have any clue how to fight against it. G'day."

I never said Sidious' lightning was ineffective, I said that Bane and Revan both know how to defend against it, and Bane's is about equal.
Didn't assume Sidious' was weaker than Vitiate's either. Don't dig yourself a grave, man ;p

If Bane has his orbalisks, its over before it starts. Neither Sidious nor Kun can really stand up against him.

Yeah, I think there should be clarification as to whether or not Bane has orbalisk armor or not because with hit his abilities are magnified ridiculously and his body becomes almost impervious to strikes.

As to Zannah vs. Bane, she didn't push him back until she began using her sorcery on him, which he had almost no knowledge of how to counter. As far as "standard" offensive Force abilities Bane was shown to be stronger than she was, though I don't know that it's fair to play down what she can do just because her abilities took different forms. She was able to turn more than one person mad instantly, including a rather able Jedi knight, though we never did get to see her using her powers against any Master except for Bane.

What are Revan's best speed feats?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
What are Revan's best speed feats?
He's got Force speed ability that gives him extra strike or two and allows him run like a donkey.

Ha! Well in that case...Palpatine blitzes him.

Nah.


Master Flurry + Master Speed = Revan solos

Master Bation + Revan = The old years.

Bane ended up having to crush his opponent by other means when he fought Kas'im dual-wielding, but he held his own against Raskta Lsu. To act as though Bane would be incapable of taking on Sidious simply because he was utilizing two sabers is baseless. It's also out of place to assume that Sidious would carry a second saber simply because he was going to face Bane when aside from the above situation he has shown preference for a single saber.

If we're going to act as though little quirks would catch Sith Masters unaware then lets assume Sidious would be at a disadvantage because he doesn't generally go up against opponents wielding a hooked handled saber. I find that to be equally as silly.

This is what KMC has come to? Awful, awful debating from you.

Palpatine has never 'gone up against opponentswielding a hook saber?' Try a different argument. Remember the guy named, oh, Darth Tyranus? His apprentice for ten years, who Palpatine was effortlessly far stronger than, with either saber or force?

It's equally idiotic to assume Palpatine wouldn't have a second saber when the Revenge of the Sith novel flat out states he does.

Bane has...no defense against Palpatine's superior force lightning, nor Palpatine simply using the same technique he and Plagueis invented to kill the Orbalisks, forcing them to poison Bane.

Sorry, kids, but Palpatine's confirmed as Bane's superior multiple times.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It's equally idiotic to assume Palpatine wouldn't have a second saber when the Revenge of the Sith novel flat out states he does.

According to the leaked Maul book Sidious has access to 2 lightsabers that he uses to dual wield in his duel with Maul and Savage Opress.

Oh, good, direct and complete proof then.

If you want to check it out someone posted the fight on page 1348 of the Battle Bar.

Do we know that Sidious was better than Dooku with a lightsaber or that he even trained with him all that much at all?

Palpatine stomping the living hell out of Maul and Savage simultaneously with a saber when Dooku had considerably more difficulty.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
This is what KMC has come to? Awful, awful debating from you.

Palpatine has never 'gone up against opponentswielding a hook saber?' Try a different argument. Remember the guy named, oh, Darth Tyranus? His apprentice for ten years, who Palpatine was effortlessly far stronger than, with either saber or force.

Excellent job both misquoting what I said and taking it out of context. I was arguing that that same premise would be just as justified as the one presented above that was equally foolish.

The dickery is heavy in this thread. Debates require no condescension; state your case and move on.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Excellent job both misquoting what I said and taking it out of context. I was arguing that that same premise would be just as justified as the one presented above that was equally foolish.

The dickery is heavy in this thread. Debates require no condescension; state your case and move on.

If you're going to argue a premise is justified, then present a justifiable premise.

To say Bane 'held his own' against Raskta Lsu ignores wholly that he'd have died in the opening seconds of the engagement as he fought without the orbalisks. Being much taller, bigger and armored in every place save for small wrist gaps and his head kind of help a little, plus the ENORMOUS boost in power and reflex the orbalisks give him.


As stated, Bane has little to stand against what Palpatine and Plagueis developed together. What does he do if his midichlorians are flipped off? Or worse, if Palpatine targets his orbalisks? when they die, you know what happens

Hmm wasn't aware of that. However in the fight business we have a saying that goes "styles make fights". Basically the result or details in a fight can sometimes have a lot to do with how the opponents match up stylistically, and not just in terms of general strength and skill. Makashi is modeled after fencing which is a 1-on-1 discipline so that could have a lot to do with it, and as we know that it can be weak to the power of even Djem So so maybe two opponents would have similar effect.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
If you're going to argue a premise is justified, then present a justifiable premise.

To say Bane 'held his own' against Raskta Lsu ignores wholly that he'd have died in the opening seconds of the engagement as he fought without the orbalisks.

If he didn't have the orbalisks then he wouldn't have charged in so recklessly and ignored defense enough to be hit like that, so that's a faulty assumption. Later he was capable to ducking around the blows aimed for his head well enough.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If he didn't have the orbalisks then he wouldn't have charged in so recklessly and ignored defense enough to be hit like that, so that's a faulty assumption. Later he was capable to ducking around the blows aimed for his head well enough.

As I said: Had he fought the same way. Does anyone actually believe Bane would've done as well as he did sans the orbalisks? His powers, his anger, his strength, speed and reflexes? Enhanced, plus the armor he got.

Bane was capable of dodging Raskta's blows at his head as she forced him back, but he promptly disengaged and went for Worror.

Bane had an enormous advantage in only having to guard his head. If Raskta was cutting all over and his entire body was vulnerable, this is another story.

Yes, but as you mentioned Raskta and all of the other Jedi were enhanced by Worror's Battle Meditation so that has to be taken into account. I still say that he held his own effectively against her as Zannah did against her opponents in the same battle.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Yes, but as you mentioned Raskta and all of the other Jedi were enhanced by Worror's Battle Meditation so that has to be taken into account. I still say that he held his own effectively against her as Zannah did against her opponents in the same battle.

Let's be fair then. The Jedi are enhanced by the meditation.

Bane is enhanced by the orbalisks AND gets a massive boost in protection from them.

And Zannah barely 'held her own.' She survived as long as she did because Johun was an idiot who couldn't let Sarro handle Zannah.

This discussion has given me the inspiration for my next thread...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
To say Bane 'held his own' against Raskta Lsu ignores wholly that he'd have died in the opening seconds of the engagement as he fought without the orbalisks. Being much taller, bigger and armored in every place save for small wrist gaps and his head kind of help a little, plus the ENORMOUS boost in power and reflex the orbalisks give him.

Bane had orbalisks, thus he held his own. What is so difficult to understand here?


You act as if Plagueis is going to be messing with Bane's midichlorians during the fight. A big LOL to that one.

Originally posted by suck it cowboy
Bane had orbalisks, thus he held his own. What is so difficult to understand here?


You act as if Plagueis is going to be messing with Bane's midichlorians during the fight. A big LOL to that one.

He can pull off an out of body experience with Venemsis to analyze everything around him, but he can't do something he can do when being tortured to death?

Again with putting words into my mouth. I didn't say he can't do it but you're not providing any real argument to him being able to throw it out like nothing.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
As I said: Had he fought the same way. Does anyone actually believe Bane would've done as well as he did sans the orbalisks? His powers, his anger, his strength, speed and reflexes? Enhanced, plus the armor he got.

Bane was capable of dodging Raskta's blows at his head as she forced him back, but he promptly disengaged and went for Worror.

Bane had an enormous advantage in only having to guard his head. If Raskta was cutting all over and his entire body was vulnerable, this is another story.

Against Raskta or the entire Jedi team?

Imo, even without the orbalisks, considering he can hold off Raskta, Farfalla and Johun while they're empowered, I think he could duel with Raskta by himself and do well. Even if she were empowered by BM still.

Though, this is all speculative. We can't tell how well he would do with the orbalisks at that point.

Because he can talk to his own to try to preserve his life when he's sleepy, drunk and getting tortured to death.

He has shown to do things that require more concentration in a fight, unless you have a reason to assume he can't, the onus is on you now.

Not exactly. We've seen Luke stand firm against the combined kilik colony, then get beat down by Lumiya. Being able to perform an impressive feat doesn't indicate it will happen under every circumstance. So claiming that he can do it under any circumstances because he's shown to do it isn't very intelligent.

Originally posted by suck it cowboy
Not exactly. We've seen Luke stand firm against the combined kilik colony, then get beat down by Lumiya. Being able to perform an impressive feat doesn't indicate it will happen under every circumstance. So claiming that he can do it under any circumstances because he's shown to do it isn't very intelligent.

He got beat the first time against Lumiya as he had never fought against a lightwhip before.

Originally posted by Master_Galen
He got beat the first time against Lumiya as he had never fought against a lightwhip before.

You're missing the point. Because he performed one massive feat, we don't assume he can do it on every occasion. There's a reason Luke isn't running around shooting Emerald Lightning at everybody.

I up-voted all of them.

Polls are so broken.

Originally posted by suck it cowboy
You're missing the point. Because he performed one massive feat, we don't assume he can do it on every occasion. There's a reason Luke isn't running around shooting Emerald Lightning at everybody.

Do you actually have a point, or proof that Luke can not replicate feats.

Wait where did I say Luke cannot replicate feats? Is the idiot convention in town or something?

Well, you're here. :3

touche

Actually it looks like its a big family reuinion atm. We just need Zam and Faunus.

Haven't seen Faunus in a long time.

I think he popped in for about 15 minutes a few months ago.

That sounds about right. Probably has this great wonderful life and no need for us poor saps.

Or he got caught transporting drugs across the border and he's now sharing a straw-lined cell in some third world country with a leper. Who knows?

Maybe the homo finally came out of the closet and couldn't handle it the way RH has? Or maybe he shut the blinds in his room and is going through an emo phase?

Originally posted by suck it cowboy
Not exactly. We've seen Luke stand firm against the combined kilik colony, then get beat down by Lumiya. Being able to perform an impressive feat doesn't indicate it will happen under every circumstance. So claiming that he can do it under any circumstances because he's shown to do it isn't very intelligent.

Lumiya didn't 'beat him down.' She took full advantage of Luke's reticence to catch civilians in crossfire, yes.

This is Plagueis's ultimate art. His magnum Opus. You might as well argue Bane can't focus to use force lightning at points.

Beat him down, beat him, didn't get murdered, it's all the same. The point is, knowing a technique doesn't mean you can apply it in every situation and that point still stands.

I used to struggle with Luke's radically inconsistent powers, until I realized that we're not actually scripting the duel or observing through the lens of a sci-fi-/action novel wherein drama must be wrought and maintained.

If this were a book, Luke would struggle with half the dark siders mentioned. But it's not, so we're free from what may be considered PIS.

Look at this, the day Janus and I post multiple times, there's like 10 people on this subforum. How's that for popularity, Ush?

That owes more to Lightsnake's return than yours.

Originally posted by Shadowbroker
That owes more to Lightsnake's return than yours.

No, I was on here last night when LS posted and it wasn't nearly as crowded. I win.

Originally posted by suck it cowboy
No, I was on here last night when LS posted and it wasn't nearly as crowded. I win.

You're here because of Lightsnake, as am I. Lightsnake is much like KMC's Force, he surrounds us, penetrates usyou with his superior arguments, and binds us together.

Just blow him already.

Originally posted by suck it cowboy
Just blow him already.

He might let you, just ask him nicely.

Wow, I never realized how much I missed the old banter....... Instead of, "HAHAHAHA LOOK AT WHAT I SAY THEY CAN DO" "NO THEY CANT" "UH HUH" "NOU" its funny. Slightly. To my half asleep brain.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Lumiya didn't 'beat him down.' She took full advantage of Luke's reticence to catch civilians in crossfire, yes.
Even that didn't help her much. Aleema was hiding in the Force, then she projected her hatred on Luke and he turned his head. And during that exact moment of distraction Lumya whipped him.

I say Sidious and Kun take this. I love Revan, but seeing how he couldn't handle Vitale's lightning, he cannot handle the lightning of someone who specialized in lightning. The revan fight will be long, but if Sidious can beat Revan, he can help Kun take out Bane.

Originally posted by ares834
Nah.


Master Flurry + Master Speed = Revan solos

Lol that's like 5 or 6 blows per second.

Sidious and Kun take all.