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Who wins?

How does Black Racer hurt Kuurth?

Originally posted by Stoic
How does Black Racer hurt Kuurth? this is getting beyond the joke

Originally posted by Nihilist
this is getting beyond the joke

Well do you have an answer? I asked because I did not know.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well do you have an answer? I asked because I did not know.
This is actually a good question. I know very little about Black Racer too but he looks so badass (not the old design, the most recent one pre Flashpoint).

All I know about him is that took a punch in the face from Superman that cracked a moon and he didn't even flinch.

Well Black Racer is a death god & iirc has some type of instant death touch or something like that.

BUT he had his heart ripped out...

Yes, yes, context etc etc.

Originally posted by zopzop
This is actually a good question. I know very little about Black Racer too but he looks so badass (not the old design, the most recent one pre Flashpoint).

All I know about him is that took a punch in the face from Superman that cracked a moon and he didn't even flinch.

Superman is not magical, Black Racer may not have been able to stand there if Captain Marvel was the puncher, or Kuurth.


Originally posted by byrdgang21
Well Black Racer is a death god & iirc has some type of instant death touch or something like that.

Kuurth is immune to aging, he neither needs to eat, sleep, or breathe. And that's without the Serpent.

Originally posted by Stoic
Superman is not magical, Black Racer may not have been able to stand there if Captain Marvel was the puncher, or Kuurth.

BR is vulnerable to magic? Where was this stated on panel?

Originally posted by zopzop

BR is vulnerable to magic? Where was this stated on panel?


His heart was pulled out by what appeared to be metaphysical forces, supported by the idea of the Source. Metaphysics is just another way of saying mystical, or spiritual right? Superman's inability to affect him with a nice punch may have been due to his physical state. On panel Billy has hurt guys that Superman could not put down, or even effect, just like with the BR..

BR was ultimately killed by having his soul ripped out of him. Not sure if Kuurth can do the same - otherwise, we might as well say every mystical character can do it.

Constantine vs BR, anyone? :-p

To say that Kuurth is capable of doing anything that Infinity Man empowered by the Source did is a laughable notion

Originally posted by Cogito
To say that Kuurth is capable of doing anything that Infinity Man empowered by the Source did is a laughable notion
Well well well. Seems like Team Kuurth left out that little bit of information. BR ftw!

Originally posted by zopzop
Well well well. Seems like Team Kuurth left out that little bit of information. BR ftw!

Some people find it convenient to leave out the facts.

First of all I was just going off of a D&D fictional law. There are characters in the D&D universe, and other RPG type games that can not be hit, or hurt by anything outside of a magical blade, or silver, iron, Captain Marvel/Teth Adams fists,,, etc...

Superman has displayed a weakness to Magic, and yet is highly resistant to anything that is not. Black Racer may be as well, because he is after all a magical being. This may be why Superman's punch did not faze him. In some fictional books the Black Racer would be considered an extra planar being. My point is that Kuurth may not be the particular magic that scores double damage on BR, but it does not mean that his hits would be ignores, because is is also an extra planar, or magical being.

Let's not pretend that this has not been adopted by comics writers. Colossus hurt the Adversary due to his body, but I doubt that Superman would have any effect, but I bet Thor would.

Using Superman as some form of proof that BR would not be affected by Kuurth's punches seems like a less than thorough way of looking at things. Kuurth may one shot him for all anyone knows. He's certainly stronger. I'm still wondering what BR could do to hurt Kuurth?

^ You're using D&D logic -- seriously?

The idea that magic is some sort of kryptonite to BR is nothing short of ridiculous. There is absolutely no evidence to support your claim, so I don't know why anyone would take it seriously.

Originally posted by Stoic
Using Superman as some form of proof that BR would not be affected by Kuurth's punches seems like a less than thorough way of looking at things. Kuurth may one shot him for all anyone knows. He's certainly stronger.

Who's certainly stronger? Kuurth is stronger than Superman? Not based on feats. Not at all.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm still wondering what BR could do to hurt Kuurth?
He's a death god. His touch kills. He deflected Superman's best punch like it was nothing (which is a superior durability feat to anything Kuurth took), and in the process stunned? KO'd? (can't remember) Superman (which is a greater feat than anything Kuurth has).

Originally posted by Stoic
First of all I was just going off of a D&D fictional law.
You crazy New Jerseyians
Originally posted by Cogito
He's a death god. His touch kills. He deflected Superman's best punch like it was nothing (which is a superior durability feat to anything Kuurth took), and in the process stunned? KO'd? (can't remember) Superman (which is a greater feat than anything Kuurth has).
Yup. Superman hit BR so hard, a freaking moon CRACKED, and BR didn't even flinch. Kuurth never went up against an attack of that level.

And Death God? According to that Captain Atom issue he's an actual Death Abstract, was that ever retconned?

Originally posted by Cogito
^ You're using D&D logic -- seriously?

The idea that magic is some sort of kryptonite to BR is nothing short of ridiculous. There is absolutely no evidence to support your claim, so I don't know why anyone would take it seriously.



Who's certainly stronger? Kuurth is stronger than Superman? Not based on feats. Not at all.


He's a death god. His touch kills. He deflected Superman's best punch like it was nothing (which is a superior durability feat to anything Kuurth took), and in the process stunned? KO'd? (can't remember) Superman (which is a greater feat than anything Kuurth has).


You see the problem with you is that you dismiss things without fully comprehending, or you comprehend but are too set in your mind to automatically disagree with me. I bet you didn't even understand my point lol. You do realize that what i said has occurred many times in comics. Comic writers have adopted the D&D laws in many cases that involve mystical, magical, or spiritual beings.

1. Many can not be hit by anything other than a certain material (Kurse).

2. The Adversary was able to all but resist without feeling any and every power that the X-Men had in their tank, but it was Colossus' steel form that hurt him.

I am not saying that Kuurth was his silver bullet, (you should reread what I wrote seriously) Not going to explain this til I'm blue in the face, you got it I know you did. You saying BR wins this because he is so and so, and of this and that, just doesn't cut it. How does he hurt Kuurth? There is more evidence pointing to Kuurth not being hurt that its not funny.

Cain as the Juggernaut is immortal, and can not die, as long as he is enchanted.

Like I said before, using Superman as the yard stick, does not work here. Kal is not a magical being. Kuurth on the other hand is saturated with magic, and would likely bust Superman's face due to his magical nature. Billy can do it, why can't another magical being do it. My ideas are not unfounded, go away with that noise bro.

Originally posted by Stoic
You see the problem with you is that you dismiss things without fully comprehending, or you comprehend but are too set in your mind to automatically disagree with me. I bet you didn't even understand my point lol. You do realize that what i said has occurred many times in comics. Comic writers have adopted the D&D laws in many cases that involve mystical, magical, or spiritual beings.

1. Many can not be hit by anything other than a certain material (Kurse).

2. The Adversary was able to all but resist without feeling any and every power that the X-Men had in their tank, but it was Colossus' steel form that hurt him.

I am not saying that Kuurth was his silver bullet, (you should reread what I wrote seriously) Not going to explain this til I'm blue in the face, you got it I know you did. You saying BR wins this because he is so and so, and of this and that, just doesn't cut it. How does he hurt Kuurth? There is more evidence pointing to Kuurth not being hurt that its not funny.

Cain as the Juggernaut is immortal, and can not die, as long as he is enchanted.

Like I said before, using Superman as the yard stick, does not work here. Kal is not a magical being. Kuurth on the other hand is saturated with magic, and would likely bust Superman's face due to his magical nature. Billy can do it, why can't another magical being do it. My ideas are not unfounded, go away with that noise bro.
Dude, NO ONE Kuurth fought hit him with the force Superman hit BR with. For sure Kuurth isn't killing or BFRing BR. The best you can hope for is an endless stalemate and even that's reaching. BR is a Death Avatar.

Originally posted by zopzop
Dude, NO ONE Kuurth fought hit him with the force Superman hit BR with. For sure Kuurth isn't killing or BFRing BR. The best you can hope for is an endless stalemate and even that's reaching. BR is a Death Avatar.


Titles as a trump card? Come on man. What i am saying is that because Superman is not extra-planar (magical), his blows could not affect BR, but there is no proof that a punch from a magical being could not affect him. Superman is not the yard stick, I can go with the eternal stalemate. Kuurth has lots of implied feats on his side as well.

Originally posted by Stoic
Titles as a trump card? Come on man. What i am saying is that because Superman is not extra-planar (magical), his blows could not affect BR, but there is no proof that a punch from a magical being could not affect him. Superman is not the yard stick, I can go with the eternal stalemate. Kuurth has lots of implied feats on his side as well.
Titles? It was SHOWN ON PANEL that Black Racer was Death Abstract as the Inevitable. Endless Death was Death Abstract as Compassionate Release and Nekron was Death Abstract as Cosmic Certainty/The Final Foe. It's not a title, it's his station. He's Death representing Death as Inevitability.

As to your other point, what proof have you that the reason why Superman couldn't hurt (and then later got owned by) Black Racer was because Superman is non magical?

And implied feats?

Originally posted by Stoic
You see the problem with you is that you dismiss things without fully comprehending, or you comprehend but are too set in your mind to automatically disagree with me. I bet you didn't even understand my point lol. You do realize that what i said has occurred many times in comics. Comic writers have adopted the D&D laws in many cases that involve mystical, magical, or spiritual beings.

But it didn't occur in this comic, therefore you're making it up. We can't have rational debates when the "proof" comes from D&D.

Its like arguing that since Kuurth could be teleported away (the Serpent did it when he was fighting Juggerlossus), then obviously, an multiplanar being could do it.

BR BFR FTW

Originally posted by Cogito
We can't have rational debates when the "proof" comes from D&D.
Don't hate! http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6088/vengerandtheshadowdemon.th.jpg

What beats Death? Characters that are immune to it's affects? In a comic CIS on I bet BR would never even attempt to face Kuurth, because it would be pointless. I'm edging towards Zop's idea of an eternal stalemate. The Juggernaut is incapable of dying, he does not need air, food, light he could float in space forever, and never die unless Cyttorak releases him. Add the Serpent, and you have quite the beast on your hands (far above Superman under certain close quarter conditions).

Has anyone ever seen a comic that two world destroyers fail to destroy a city, and yet they were going all out? Plot induced stupidity? Superman would break his hand on Kuurth's impossibly durable face, if he hit him like he hit Doomsday. He was twice the threat that he was, while only having the Juggernaut's abilities. He took Thor's best PIS shot to the face without flinching during the 8th day. The Serpent was seen to hold his own against a Juggernaut (Peter), and even fractured several bones in him. Cyttorak said on panel that he gives Peter more than he ever did Cain, meaning he can become far more than Cain ever could. I believe it to be his potential TBH. All the same they stacked as Kuurth, making Cain puny in comparison.

Look I was just discussing comics, and what i thought the possibilities could be. No one has to agree this fight will never happen.

Originally posted by Cogito
But it didn't occur in this comic, therefore you're making it up. We can't have rational debates when the "proof" comes from D&D.

This is where I lost you. Oh OK, let me explain it a little better for you. Sorry, I explained it in a way that you misinterpreted. I wasn't really talking about proof, but the concept. CONCEPT get it? Not proof. Do you understand what I mean now? No?

This is where I lose you. Let me explain it a little better for you.

You can't make up weaknesses because other completely unrelated people have completely unrelated weaknesses

Originally posted by zopzop
Titles? It was SHOWN ON PANEL that Black Racer was Death Abstract as the Inevitable. Endless Death was Death Abstract as Compassionate Release and Nekron was Death Abstract as Cosmic Certainty/The Final Foe. It's not a title, it's his station. He's Death representing Death as Inevitability.

As to your other point, what proof have you that the reason why Superman couldn't hurt (and then later got owned by) Black Racer was because Superman is non magical?

And implied feats?


Some characters can only be scored on by certain things, whether they be fetishes (voodoo dolls, paraphernalia), iron, steel, silver etc... It is known the BR was killed by magical forces. Who is to say that Cain could not score on him, but it having less to do with the impact, and more to do with the substance. It can be argued that's all that I am saying. It's not cut and dry, if BFR was off and they were forced to battle, neither may be hurt. They are both immortal. A Juggernaut cannot die.

Originally posted by Cogito
This is where I lose you. Let me explain it a little better for you.

You can't make up weaknesses because other completely unrelated people have completely unrelated weaknesses


Well then prove how BR wins, and please do it without using titles, and he is this of this. Just drop it. Why does BR win? Why is this not a stalemate? Why cant Kuurth hurt BR? do it to it man.

Originally posted by Cogito
This is where I lose you. Let me explain it a little better for you.

You can't make up weaknesses because other completely unrelated people have completely unrelated weaknesses


And yet his heart was pulled out by extra-planar forces, so we now know without a shadow of a MOFO doubt, that BR has a weakness. Am I correct?

Originally posted by Stoic
Some characters can only be scored on by certain things, whether they be fetishes (voodoo dolls, paraphernalia), iron, steel, silver etc... It is known the BR was killed by magical forces. Who is to say that Cain could not score on him, but it having less to do with the impact, and more to do with the substance. It can be argued that's all that I am saying. It's not cut and dry, if BFR was off and they were forced to battle, neither may be hurt. They are both immortal. A Juggernaut cannot die.
Bro I'm about to suplex you off the Palisades and into the Hudson!

BR was killed by ELITE/abstract magical forces. Infinity Man tapping into Source Wall. Serpent or Cytorrak aren't that level, let alone their servant. So it's safe to say BR has nothing to fear from Kuurth.

FP Kuurth did nothing, absolutely NOTHING impressive on panel. BR tanking a moon cratering/cracking punch without flinching and CASUALLY beating Superman is >>>>>>>>>>>anything Kuurth has done.

Aside from being an aspect of death (literally), BR damn-near killed an enraged Superman with the merest twitch of his eyeball (literally.) Kuurth has no chance (literally.)

Superman breaking his hand on kuurth? Colossus didn't and what is this nonsense about superman unable to affect magical beings which BR is not to start with? Superman has koed captain marvel in two punches who is pure magical.

Oh and Infinity man is not a magical being.

BR BFRs Kuurth. Don't say that Pixie couldn't do it; The Serpent could.

Black Racer is up there in terms of power; Kuurth is obviously weak to BFRing by sufficiently powerful forces.

Therefore, Black Racer BFRs Kuurth for the easy win.

Oh, and even though the Infinity Man tore his heart out, guess what - he was there chasing Barry at the end of Infinite Crisis - so he obv ain't weak to that lol.

Originally posted by zopzop
Bro I'm about to suplex you off the Palisades and into the Hudson!

BR was killed by ELITE/abstract magical forces. Infinity Man tapping into Source Wall. Serpent or Cytorrak aren't that level, let alone their servant. So it's safe to say BR has nothing to fear from Kuurth.

FP Kuurth did nothing, absolutely NOTHING impressive on panel. BR tanking a moon cratering/cracking punch without flinching and CASUALLY beating Superman is >>>>>>>>>>>anything Kuurth has done.

You see that's your opinion, but it still does not mean that BR wins this. Titles mean nothing when the guy that you are facing cannot die, and is literally out of you reach. BR holds no power over Kuurth, there are no reprisals for Cain to suffer He can not die. This is simple. You see I have always noticed that titles and prestige take precedence over ability here on this forum. Zop it's a stalemate man.

Also anything, about Cyttorak's full power has never been written. Aside from being the destroyer of all things. Sounds pretty powerful to me.

Originally posted by Galan007
Aside from being an aspect of death (literally), BR damn-near killed an enraged Superman with the merest twitch of his eyeball (literally.) Kuurth has no chance (literally.)

Superman has no enchantment protecting him like Cain as Kuurth had. The Serpent was a huge spell caster, how the hell can anyone be sure that that portion of Cain could not manipulate death? There's some things to be considered here whether anyone wants to or not. BR certainly can do no harm to a creature beyond death.

Originally posted by Stoic
You see that's your opinion, but it still does not mean that BR wins this. Titles mean nothing when the guy that you are facing cannot die, and is literally out of you reach. BR holds no power over Kuurth, there are no reprisals for Cain to suffer He can not die. This is simple. You see I have always noticed that titles and prestige take precedence over ability here on this forum. Zop it's a stalemate man.

Also anything, about Cyttorak's full power has never been written. Aside from being the destroyer of all things. Sounds pretty powerful to me.

A) It's not a title, it's his station! He's a freaking aspect of Death. Death as Inevitability.

B) He has better on panel showings than Kuurth.

C) Cytorrak has ZERO on panel feats worth mentioning except shutting down 1/5 of the PF while in his dimension. Compare that to Mephisto stalemating Galactus in his Hell with 616 reality being wrecked as a result.

EDIT :
Beyond Death? One of the beings empowering Kuurth is.............wait for it...................DEAD.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman breaking his hand on kuurth? Colossus didn't and what is this nonsense about superman unable to affect magical beings which BR is not to start with? Superman has koed captain marvel in two punches who is pure magical.

The New Gods do not have a magical nature? It's about Kuurth being made or enchanted by sterner stuff than Superman. Yes I am directly saying, that if they were both bombarded by increasingly greater doses of punishment until one was turned to mush, Kuurth would be standing while Superman would be meat. Superman was unable to affect black Racer because his natural state did not register with BR's natural state. It's like shooting a missile at an Angel and expecting it to affect it. One is physical the other is immune to the physical, being metaphysical.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh and Infinity man is not a magical being.

Does the Infinity Man Forever People, or any of the other NG's have magical natures, or metaphysical natures? Are you splitting hairs? I'm not playing that game.

Originally posted by zopzop
A) It's not a title, it's his station! He's a freaking aspect of Death. Death as Inevitability.

B) He has better on panel showings than Kuurth.

C) Cytorrak has ZERO on panel feats worth mentioning except shutting down 1/5 of the PF while in his dimension. Compare that to Mephisto stalemating Galactus in his Hell with 616 reality being wrecked as a result.

EDIT :
Beyond Death? One of the beings empowering Kuurth is.............wait for it...................DEAD.


The Juggernaut wait for it.... Cannot die. That's really all that they are, are titles, so if you want to call them staions go for it. It still does not mean shyt to a guy outside of BR's influence. Cain is outside of Deaths influence. The feats that we saw from Kuurth may have been smaller in scale, but that does not automatically chart Kuurth's true level of power level. This is really one of those things that can never be proven. I have yet to see how BR hurts Kuurth, without there being an argument to oppose it's validity. Oh well. I'm done here.

Originally posted by Stoic
The New Gods do not have a magical nature? It's about Kuurth being made or enchanted by sterner stuff than Superman. Yes I am directly saying, that if they were both bombarded by increasingly greater doses of punishment until one was turned to mush, Kuurth would be standing while Superman would be meat. Superman was unable to affect black Racer because his natural state did not register with BR's natural state. It's like shooting a missile at an Angel and expecting it to affect it. One is physical the other is immune to the physical, being metaphysical.

New gods are just extra-dimensional beings like asgardians and olympians. There is nothing magical or meta-physical about them. Considering superman has punched through his own death I find your nonsensical prattle about meta-physical and what not just that.....nonsensical.

Superman punches through his own death.
Superman: where is thy sting.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_supersting-57.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_supersting-58.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_supersting-59.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_supersting-60.jpg

Not to mention that he was pounding away successfully on "meta-physical" Infinity man, I find this even more hilarious

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/DeathOfTheNewGods07b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/DeathOfTheNewGods07c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/DeathOfTheNewGods07d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/DeathOfTheNewGods07e.jpg

Black racer didn't flinch on superman's punch because he is that durable. Oh and if you are trying to compare superman's feats to juggernaut's or kuurth's feats, don't. You wouldn't like to compare feats of durability to superman. For example this is what happens to galactus when sandwiched by two colliding planets

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/38425/1114785-998020_t_06_10_super_super.jpg

Barely alive. Now under the same writer i.e. Starlin this happened when superman was sandwiched between two planets

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Crazy%20Feats/DeathOfTheNewGods08a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Crazy%20Feats/DeathOfTheNewGods08b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Crazy%20Feats/DeathOfTheNewGods08c.jpg

Now I'm not saying that superman is more durable than galactus but to compare high end feats with superman is futile.



No they are neither magical nor meta-physical.

Originally posted by abhilegend
New gods are just extra-dimensional beings like asgardians and olympians. There is nothing magical or meta-physical about them. Considering superman has punched through his own death I find your nonsensical prattle about meta-physical and what not just that.....nonsensical.

Superman punches through his own death.
Superman: where is thy sting.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_supersting-57.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_supersting-58.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_supersting-59.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_supersting-60.jpg

Not to mention that he was pounding away successfully on "meta-physical" Infinity man, I find this even more hilarious

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/DeathOfTheNewGods07b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/DeathOfTheNewGods07c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/DeathOfTheNewGods07d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/DeathOfTheNewGods07e.jpg

Black racer didn't flinch on superman's punch because he is that durable. Oh and if you are trying to compare superman's feats to juggernaut's or kuurth's feats, don't. You wouldn't like to compare feats of durability to superman. For example this is what happens to galactus when sandwiched by two colliding planets

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/38425/1114785-998020_t_06_10_super_super.jpg

Barely alive. Now under the same writer i.e. Starlin this happened when superman was sandwiched between two planets

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Crazy%20Feats/DeathOfTheNewGods08a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Crazy%20Feats/DeathOfTheNewGods08b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Crazy%20Feats/DeathOfTheNewGods08c.jpg

Now I'm not saying that superman is more durable than galactus but to compare high end feats with superman is futile.



No they are neither magical nor meta-physical.


None of that mattered in the least. You say nonsensical in an attempt to dismiss, without really proving a thing. Superman has been cut by things that would not cut Kuurth. Superman can die, Kuurth can not, if you placed Kuurth in an airless non lit frozen void, and placed Superman right there with him, guess who would die first? Yeah thats right. Sing it.

You have nothing to prove that Kuurth will lose. None of what you showed bears any relevance.

"New Gods are incredibly powerful living ideas from a kind of platonic, archetypal world.":
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12552326_n1.jpg

That is likely why Orion's body (which, again, is composed almost entirely of pure energy) began 'dissipating' back to the Source immediately after he was killed:
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12552333_n2.jpg

So I think I could agree with the notion that New Gods are metaphysical beings. However, they are certainly not 'magical' beings. Never once have they been defined as such... They are no more 'magical' than Monitors are.

Originally posted by Stoic
None of that mattered in the least. You say nonsensical in an attempt to dismiss, without really proving a thing. Superman has been cut by things that would not cut Kuurth. Superman can die, Kuurth can not, if you placed Kuurth in an airless non lit frozen void, and placed Superman right there with him, guess who would die first? Yeah thats right. Sing it.

You have nothing to prove that Kuurth will lose. None of what you showed bears any relevance.
Really? What has cut superman? Not even persuader's axe has cut superman

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well, wolverine isn't cutting superman.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_adventuresof602a.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_adventuresof602b.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_adventuresof602c.jpg

That's persuader's axe and later in the same comic cut open a rift in time and space.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_as602p16.jpg

Take it with shatterstar blinding juggernaut

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/109340/2147811-shatterstarvjug1.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/109340/2147812-shatterstarvjug2.jpg

What did kuurth faced that was so powerful that superman couldn't withstand it?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Really? What has cut superman? Not even persuader's axe has cut superman



Take it with shatterstar blinding juggernaut

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/109340/2147811-shatterstarvjug1.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/109340/2147812-shatterstarvjug2.jpg

What did kuurth faced that was so powerful that superman couldn't withstand it?

Juggernaut was cut by a magical blade, why do you think that Wolvies claws slide off of him? Cmon man.

Doomsday's punches have always had a way of cutting Superman. I don't have time for the BS Abhi. You know as well as anyone that Superman has been cut by things that would bounce off of the Juggernaut. Every time Captain Marvel punches Superman he opens the bridge of his nose. Are you starting to remember? Kuurth would twist Superman head off, once he realizes that his punches do no damage and his heat rays are useless. He will then try the grappling technique and get owned.

You really arent arguing that Superman is as resilient as Cain are you? He isn't, nor can he outlive Cain. Juggernaut does not tire, he requires nothing, Superman on the other hand. you get me?

Originally posted by Stoic
Juggernaut was cut by a magical blade, why do you think that Wolvies claws slide off of him? Cmon man.

Doomsday's punches have always had a way of cutting Superman. I don't have time for the BS Abhi. You know as well as anyone that Superman has been cut by things that would bounce off of the Juggernaut. Every time Captain Marvel punches Superman he opens the bridge of his nose. Are you starting to remember? Kuurth would twist Superman head off, once he realizes that his punches do no damage and his heat rays are useless. He will then try the grappling technique and get owned.

You really arent arguing that Superman is as resilient as Cain are you? He isn't, nor can he outlive Cain. Juggernaut does not tire, he requires nothing, Superman on the other hand. you get me?
Nope. You are the one going by feats and what not. Doomsday has cut superman at less than full power in DOS and when he was adapting in H/P. Captain marvel has only bloddied superman when he was weakened by kryptonite otherwise it was just a concussion.

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/3388/140261-jla_02915_super.jpg
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/3388/140262-jla_02916_super.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/75/160517705_d1c22936d0_o.jpg

Cap has a specific weakness of superman with almost equal strength to him. Shatterstar doesn't. Your fantasies have no place here. You are just riding on Juggernaut's so called invulnerability. Well so much for his vaunted invulnerability

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/11/118368/2333161-juggernaut_vs_hulk_comic_i15.jpg

Oh and everybody pretends this doesn't exist

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/juggernaut19.jpg

Where are all the feats of kuurth shrugging of attacks that would kill superman? All I'm doing is giving feats which you are not.

The Hulk knocked Juggernaut's helm off, and hit him with a very powerful TP backlash. Onslaught was an off panel situation, so anything could have happened there. Artist depictions differ. Do you have the scans of McGuiness's art in Batman/Superman when Billy pops Superman in the face? You should get that one. Doomsday has cut him where you see blood fly out of his mouth. how many guys has made blood fly out of Superman's mouth. Be honest. Cain was reduced to a skeleton by magical forces and remained on his feet. I think the guy that did that to him was named D'spayre? Something like that.

It's not the attacks that Kuurth shrugged off, but that he was far more powerful than he was when he shrugged off Thor's double hammer. Superman would have felt that hit. Cain again in a much weaker form did not. It would take far more to turn Cain into a skeleton than it would for Superman. That's all that matters here, not what Kuurth went through that Superman could not.

Originally posted by Stoic
The Hulk knocked Juggernaut's helm off, and hit him with a very powerful TP backlash. Onslaught was an off panel situation, so anything could have happened there. Artist depictions differ. Do you have the scans of McGuiness's art in Batman/Superman when Billy pops Superman in the face? You should get that one. Doomsday has cut him where you see blood fly out of his mouth. how many guys has made blood fly out of Superman's mouth. Be honest. Cain was reduced to a skeleton by magical forces and remained on his feet. I think the guy that did that to him was named D'spayre? Something like that.

It's not the attacks that Kuurth shrugged off, but that he was far more powerful than he was when he shrugged off Thor's double hammer. Superman would have felt that hit. Cain again in a much weaker form did not. It would take far more to turn Cain into a skeleton than it would for Superman. That's all that matters here, not what Kuurth went through that Superman could not.
Juggernaut was on his knees gasping for his breath with two hits from professor hulk as shown on panel. There is no mention of a TP backlash. Except it was just a physical attack which sent juggernaut from one country to another and it koed him. Superman was weakened by kryptonite in that instance and doomsday only bloddied him after a prolonged battle when his solar reserves were depleted and in H/P when he specifically adapted to superman's physiology to produce a poison which weakened superman. Otherwise he tanked a punch from doomsday initially without even budging

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Durability/impacts/superman074a.jpg

Again superman tanks an attack without any scratch which nearly killed galactus

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/38425/1114785-998020_t_06_10_super_super.jpg

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Crazy%20Feats/DeathOfTheNewGods08a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Crazy%20Feats/DeathOfTheNewGods08b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Crazy%20Feats/DeathOfTheNewGods08c.jpg


As for godblast, superman survives the destruction of the source wall here

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/DOTNG7p21-22.jpg

Oh and about thor being unable to affect juggernaut. It was his force-field which kuurth doesn't have on him. Without his force-field Thor nearly koed juggernaut with just punches

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/JuggernautvsThor6.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/JuggernautvsThor7.jpg