The Worthy vs Phoenix 5

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Nihilist
Who wins?

JakeTheBank
Absorbing Man and Juggernaut are key to this.

DickBlazer
Phoenix five stomp

janus77
Nul would probably be the only "Worthy" to be worthy of this match-up.

The rest are burned to cinders. P5 stomp.

guy222
p5

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by janus77
Nul would probably be the only "Worthy" to be worthy of this match-up.

The rest are burned to cinders. P5 stomp.

maybe... I thought Kuurthy had the best showings out of the Worthy...

Power Cosmic II
phoenix 5. Thor held his own against worthy hulk and thing...and phoenix emma shat all over thor.

Damborgson
I wonder if Grey Gargoyle could affect any of them.

zopzop
Originally posted by Damborgson
I wonder if Grey Gargoyle could affect any of them.
Of course he could. Just like Thor "affected" Emma's PF enhanced Diamond Form. But how well did that wind up working for him in the end?

P5 stomp the Worthy.

TheGodKiller
P5 take this .

Damborgson
Originally posted by zopzop
Of course he could. Just like Thor "affected" Emma's PF enhanced Diamond Form. But how well did that wind up working for him in the end?

P5 stomp the Worthy.

That doesn't seem like a good comparison. Thor shattered Emma but thats all. Gargoyle would be changing her from diamond to stone. then smashing her. No guarantee it'd be the same.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Damborgson
That doesn't seem like a good comparison. Thor shattered Emma but thats all. Gargoyle would be changing her from diamond to stone. then smashing her. No guarantee it'd be the same.

And why do you think that the Phoenix Force wouldn't be able to re-transmute her stone fragments back to diamond and resurrect Emma the way it did with Thor ?

zopzop
Originally posted by Damborgson
That doesn't seem like a good comparison. Thor shattered Emma but thats all. Gargoyle would be changing her from diamond to stone. then smashing her. No guarantee it'd be the same.
eer

guy222
worthy lose badly

KingD19
Why do we think his stone powers would work on her at all? It didn't work on Iron Man and all he had was a suit.

Lord Feron
Originally posted by KingD19
Why do we think his stone powers would work on her at all? It didn't work on Iron Man and all he had was a suit.

which has nothing to do with power level and only due to the fact that tony didn't look at dragon man with his own eyes. A leisure that the P5 do not have. And to assume that they can retranmute themselves if at all before being turned to rubble is debatable at the very least.

KingD19
Gargoyle turned the whole city to stone. You can't think each and every person looked at him with their own eyes, as people inside were found petrified as well.

JakeTheBank
If Creel touches one of them, which is a high possibility, the outcome of this match is anything but a clear victory for the five.

Lord Feron
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If Creel touches one of them, which is a high possibility, the outcome of this match is anything but a clear victory for the five.

none of them had a exo skeleton to rely on.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Lord Feron
which has nothing to do with power level and only due to the fact that tony didn't look at dragon man with his own eyes. A leisure that the P5 do not have. And to assume that they can retranmute themselves if at all before being turned to rubble is debatable at the very least.

Phoenix does have transmutation based powers , since its the collective psionic energy of the universe , not to mention that Piotr could even be affected by Grey Gargoyle is also debatable , as he is empowered by the PF as well as Cyttorak .

KingD19
Also, Cyclops gave "life" to moon dust. He turned it into an accurate representation of Jean and even gave it psuedo-sentience. I'm pretty sure if Gargoyle could affect him or any of the others, they could fix it.

Damborgson
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
And why do you think that the Phoenix Force wouldn't be able to re-transmute her stone fragments back to diamond and resurrect Emma the way it did with Thor ?

Why should I? It was still diamond. Unless you think Thors hammer changed it from Diamond to some other matter with the strike.

Is that what happened though? I have a pretty limited knowledge on Emma Frost obviously. She can't reform her diamond form without the Phoenix Force?

Originally posted by zopzop
eer

Go ahead an explain yourself. Taking the smiley as a way out isn't helpful to either of us. Since I have a pretty limited knowledge of Emma other than some of her telepathic feats. So help me out?

DarkSaint85
To my knowledge, no, she can't. Not under her own power, anyway - last time she got shattered, Phoenix had to step in and reassemble her,

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Damborgson
Why should I? It was still diamond. Unless you think Thors hammer changed it from Diamond to some other matter with the strike.

Is that what happened though? I have a pretty limited knowledge on Emma Frost obviously. She can't reform her diamond form without the Phoenix Force?



This is Emma with the Phoenix Force . It(the PF) possesses transmutation abilities .
Emma in her standard level , is incapable of such a major reformation feat under her own power .

Again I ask you , why do you think that turning a PF-holder(even if its only 1/5th of the Force they are wielding) into stone(which is debatable in itself) can actually put a P5 member down .

Damborgson
So the phoenix had a huge role in that fight then. It could probably turn her back from getting changed to stone then. Since healing has been bale to reverse the effects before. I imagine Phoenix could do the same.

zopzop
Originally posted by Damborgson
Go ahead an explain yourself. Taking the smiley as a way out isn't helpful to either of us. Since I have a pretty limited knowledge of Emma other than some of her telepathic feats. So help me out?
What way out? You telling me you don't know that the PF can manipulate molecules? Weaksauce PF Rachel used her power to reconstitute Cyclops and IW from their hound forms back to their normal selves.

Also Emma can't reform herself if shattered, unless I've missed something. With the PF she reconstituted herself and went on to wtfpwn Thor. Grey Gargoyle is doing NOTHING to her. Nothing.

P5 stomp the overrated "Worthy".

Damborgson
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
This is Emma with the Phoenix Force . It(the PF) possesses transmutation abilities .
Emma in her standard level , is incapable of such a major reformation feat under her own power .

Again I ask you , why do you think that turning a PF-holder(even if its only 1/5th of the Force they are wielding) into stone(which is debatable in itself) can actually put a P5 member down .

This is the second time you've had major reading comprehension issues. I literally never said that it would put her down. I wondered if it would affect her. And I didn't find Zopzops reply helpful. So I questioned it.

You need to stop trying so hard.

zopzop
Originally posted by Damborgson
This is the second time you've had major reading comprehension issues. I literally never said that it would put her down. I wondered if it would affect her. And I didn't find Zopzops reply helpful. So I questioned it.

You need to stop trying so hard.
WTF are you talking about. You asked if it would "affect" her and I said yes. Just like Thor "affected" her Diamond Form by shattering it (normal Emma can't reform from that kind of damage), yet thanks to the PF she reformed and crushed him. Grey Gargoyle would fare just as "well" as Thor did.

Understand?

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Damborgson
This is the second time you've had major reading comprehension issues. I literally never said that it would put her down. I wondered if it would affect her. And I didn't find Zopzops reply helpful. So I questioned it.

You need to stop trying so hard.

This reply of yours :
Originally posted by Damborgson
That doesn't seem like a good comparison. Thor shattered Emma but thats all. Gargoyle would be changing her from diamond to stone. then smashing her. No guarantee it'd be the same.
seems to imply that you think that there's a possibility that the outcome of Grey Gargoyle would be different from Thor shattering her , i.e she wouldn't be able to reform .
If you think that there is such a possibility , then that is as good as insinuating that he can put her down via this method . Where are my reading comprehension issues in all of this ?

It won't affect her at all , because the Phoenix has proven transmutation abilities and it has already demonstrated that it can reform her if she gets destroyed in battle .

I am not trying hard at all . This is a fairly simple argumentation . Try to keep up .

Damborgson
Originally posted by zopzop
What way out? You telling me you don't know that the PF can manipulate molecules? Weaksauce PF Rachel used her power to reconstitute Cyclops and IW from their hound forms back to their normal selves.

Also Emma can't reform herself if shattered, unless I've missed something. With the PF she reconstituted herself and went on to wtfpwn Thor. Grey Gargoyle is doing NOTHING to her. Nothing.

P5 stomp the overrated "Worthy".

The one I just said?

I didn't actually. I've only seen a couple showings of the PF. But ty for the information.

Ok calm down. I was wondering not declaring.

Yeah I'd give them my vote. Though it wouldn't be a wtf stomp imo. The worthy aren't really weak.

zopzop
Originally posted by Damborgson
Yeah I'd give them my vote. Though it wouldn't be a wtf stomp imo. The worthy aren't really weak.
It would be an absolute WTFstomp. Necrom with a sliver of the PF he had (he couldn't even access it without Feeb Rachel accessing her PF) : hurled the molten core of a planet at Rachel (think about how much hundreds of BILLIONS of tons that must have weighed), he flung two MOONS at her (think about how much they weigh), he ignited a gas giant into a star to incinerate her, then finally he destroyed an entire solar system. And the only way he was stopped was when she overloaded him by allowing him to draw the PF portion that was in her and he exploded. So yeah.................

Damborgson
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
This reply of yours :

seems to imply that you think that there's a possibility that the outcome of Grey Gargoyle would be different from Thor shattering her , i.e she wouldn't be able to reform .
If you think that there is such a possibility , then that is as good as insinuating that he can put her down via this method . Where are my reading comprehension issues in all of this ?

It won't affect her at all , because the Phoenix has proven transmutation abilities and it has already demonstrated that it can reform her if she gets destroyed in battle .

I am not trying hard at all . This is a fairly simple argumentation . Try to keep up .

I think it'd be different yes. That would it would put her down? Only you think that. I thought their was a possibility for problems. Because when Thor smashed her she was still diamond when the pieces came back down they reformed failry quickly. With the stone transformation I thought their could be room for temporary incapacitation. As far as losing the fight? no. Which is why I said from the beginning "affect" not beat.

When you opened your moth and attributed arguments that weren't mine. and the other day in the character ownage or wherever we were talking.

Ok thats what I wanted to know from the beginning. thanks.

You are. But you won't admit. You're a rookie trying to make a name and it's more than obvious in your posts.

But thank you for the information.

She'd be turned to

Damborgson
Originally posted by zopzop
WTF are you talking about. You asked if it would "affect" her and I said yes. Just like Thor "affected" her Diamond Form by shattering it (normal Emma can't reform from that kind of damage), yet thanks to the PF she reformed and crushed him. Grey Gargoyle would fare just as "well" as Thor did.

Understand?

About what we were talking about? Calm down your nerd rage btw. It's actually embarrassing. erm

Damborgson
Originally posted by zopzop
It would be an absolute WTFstomp. Necrom with a sliver of the PF he had (he couldn't even access it without Feeb Rachel accessing her PF) : hurled the molten core of a planet at Rachel (think about how much hundreds of BILLIONS of tons that must have weighed), he flung two MOONS at her (think about how much they weigh), he ignited a gas giant into a star to incinerate her, then finally he destroyed an entire solar system. And the only way he was stopped was when she overloaded him by allowing him to draw the PF portion that was in her and he exploded. So yeah.................

blink well then...

zopzop
Originally posted by Damborgson
About what we were talking about? Calm down your nerd rage btw. It's actually embarrassing. erm
Tard, you asked a question, I'm answering it without a "smiley face", understand?

Damborgson
Originally posted by zopzop
Tard, you asked a question, I'm answering it without a "smiley face", understand?

laughing out loud wow you are genuinely mad.

Calm down. I appreciate the answer honestly but this is getting even more embarrassing talking to you. If I insulted your comic love or something by accident well then....deal with it loser. stick out tongue

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Damborgson
I think it'd be different yes. That would it would put her down? Only you think that. I thought their was a possibility for problems. Because when Thor smashed her she was still diamond when the pieces came back down they reformed failry quickly. With the stone transformation I thought their could be room for temporary incapacitation. As far as losing the fight? no. Which is why I said from the beginning "affect" not beat.

When you opened your moth and attributed arguments that weren't mine. and the other day in the character ownage or wherever we were talking.

Ok thats what I wanted to know from the beginning. thanks.

You are. But you won't admit. You're a rookie trying to make a name and it's more than obvious in your posts.

But thank you for the information.

She'd be turned to

Rookie ? Trying to make a name ? WTH are you talking about ?

Opening my "moth" ? Sorry I am not an entomologist . I don't open up moths .

How can a stone transformation incapacitate her , if she simply reforms from it ? Sorry but if you think the incapacitation is
temporary , then it is no more temporary than Thor destroying her diamond form . The outcome isn't different at all in this case .

Its basically her reforming in moments after being smashed , and then going on to wtfpwn Gargoyle . Same as Thor .

This is very simple , nothing hard to think here .

zopzop
Originally posted by Damborgson
laughing out loud wow you are genuinely mad.

Calm down. I appreciate the answer honestly but this is getting even more embarrassing talking to you. If I insulted your comic love or something by accident well then....deal with it loser. stick out tongue
Not mad, annoyed. Big difference.

Enjoy the pretty pictures.
Originally posted by id369
Excalibur volume 1, issue #50
Rachael vs Necrom. Battle wise, good showings.
Asteroids, and moons are thrown at each other. Planetes are one shotted, and ignited to form a sun. Devastation to an entire Solar System.
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/2465/050p22ya5.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9704/050p23ww5.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1142/050p24hy7.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6325/050p25rw7.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2493/050p26eh6.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2250/050p27tn6.jpg
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9195/050p28zo7.jpg
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/8331/050p29gp6.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5117/050p30ux5.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4034/050p31mk6.jpg
P5 stomp.

Damborgson
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Rookie ? Trying to make a name ? WTH are you talking about ?

Opening my "moth" ? Sorry I am not an entomologist . I don't open up moths .

How can a stone transformation incapacitate her , if she simply reforms from it ? Sorry but if you think the incapacitation is
temporary , then it is no more temporary than Thor destroying her diamond form . The outcome isn't different at all in this case .

Its basically her reforming in moments after being smashed , and then going on to wtfpwn Gargoyle . Same as Thor .

This is very simple , nothing hard to think here .

About what you're doing? What else would we be talking about?

Yes I meant "moth" because that would totally fit the situation. You need to calm down also apparently.

That what I used to think? But I asked for information and I got it. So I agree. You really are arguing for nothing at this point other than getting the last word. Which is said to say the least. erm


For you it is I guess.

Damborgson
Originally posted by zopzop
Not mad, annoyed. Big difference.

Enjoy the pretty pictures.

P5 stomp.

Another mad response. I'm not stupid and you're terrible at hiding it. wink

So go relax.

thanks for the scans.

zopzop
Originally posted by Damborgson
Another mad response. I'm not stupid and you're terrible at hiding it. wink

So go relax.

thanks for the scans.
More scans for you. Remember that PIS about PF Emma not being able to handle Thor's mind?

Well here is weaksauce Rachel's power making Mastermind "one with the myriad splendors of the universe":
Originally posted by id369
Excalibur 26
Remember that certain level of Omniscience?
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6752/exc26p11rc5.jpg
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5633/exc26p12ht3.jpg

So if P5 attempt mindrape, sans PIS, they should be able to handle anything they find in the Worthys minds.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Damborgson
About what you're doing? What else would we be talking about?

Yes I meant "moth" because that would totally fit the situation. You need to calm down also apparently.

That what I used to think? But I asked for information and I got it. So I agree. You really are arguing for nothing at this point other than getting the last word. Which is said to say the least. erm


For you it is I guess.

I am calm . You called me a "rookie" and told me I was "trying to make a name" for myself , so that shows that you are somewhat unsettled .

I merely responded to the points that you made in your reply to me . I don't understand what misdeed I committed .

Damborgson
Originally posted by zopzop
More scans for you. Remember that PIS about PF Emma not being able to handle Thor's mind?

Well here is weaksauce Rachel's power making Mastermind "one with the myriad splendors of the universe":

So if P5 attempt mindrape, sans PIS, they should be able to handle anything they find in the Worthys minds.

are you just sharing scans with me now? Thanks I guess.

Damborgson
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I am calm . You called me a "rookie" and told me I was "trying to make a name" for myself , so that shows that you are somewhat unsettled .

I merely responded to the points that you made in your reply to me . I don't understand what misdeed I committed .

No you're not and it's hard to see.

Stating truths isn't a sign of being "unsettled." Your reactions are. "WTH?!?!?!?!?!?!??" laughing out loud

nice now you take the innocent route out. Give it a rest. You're not hard to see through.

zopzop
Originally posted by Damborgson
are you just sharing scans with me now? Thanks I guess.
Originally posted by zopzop
More scans for you. Remember that PIS about PF Emma not being able to handle Thor's mind?

Well here is weaksauce Rachel's power making Mastermind "one with the myriad splendors of the universe":

So if P5 attempt mindrape, sans PIS, they should be able to handle anything they find in the Worthys minds.
Nope, just anticipating the "Emma/Cerebra" argument and pointing out, sans PIS, the P5 shouldn't have that problem.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Damborgson
No you're not and it's hard to see.

Stating truths isn't a sign of being "unsettled." Your reactions are. "WTH?!?!?!?!?!?!??" laughing out loud

nice now you take the innocent route out. Give it a rest. You're not hard to see through.

Baselessly accusing someone will indeed solicit a "WTH" reaction .

What truths did you state ?

I don't need to take the "innocent route" out , when I didn't do anything wrong to begin with .

Damborgson
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Baselessly accusing someone will indeed solicit a "WTH" reaction .

What truths did you state ?

I don't need to take the "innocent route" out , when I didn't do anything wrong to begin with .

It wasn't baseless though and you really are mad.

About being a rookie and trying to make a name.

There it is again.

Originally posted by zopzop
Nope, just anticipating the "Emma/Cerebra" argument and pointing out, sans PIS, the P5 shouldn't have that problem.

Okay then....

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Damborgson
It wasn't baseless though and you really are mad.

About being a rookie and trying to make a name.

There it is again.


Whatever floats your boat , buddy .

Tar-Antado
Phoenix 5 dominates IMO.

deathlife
Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
phoenix 5. Thor held his own against worthy hulk and thing...and phoenix emma shat all over thor.

This basically.

Thor took out Nul and Angrir by himself but he got rape stomped (emphasis on the rape part) by Emma Frost.

carver9
He bfred Nul and a Thor that was out for the kill couldn't even prevent Nul from getting off of his ft. If Thor didn't bfr Nul, he would have died. Thor shattered Emma.

The worthys win.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Thor shattered Emma.

Means absolutely nothing.

nwg202
phoenix powered Soul Sword for the win.

Estacado
Well Thor was pwning some of the Worthy with P5 it's the otherway around....

The Sorrow
Phoenix > Serpent

Phoenix 5 > The Worthy

Tar-Antado
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Phoenix > Serpent

Phoenix 5 > The Worthy

Yes, I considered the power source too.

RyanAutumns
Originally posted by carver9
He bfred Nul and a Thor that was out for the kill couldn't even prevent Nul from getting off of his ft. If Thor didn't bfr Nul, he would have died. Thor shattered Emma.

The worthys win. your logic scares me

carver9
Originally posted by RyanAutumns
your logic scares me

That's what I am here for.

RyanAutumns
lol the worthy would get wtfowned by the Phoenix 5, Iread Fear Itself and the Worthy have nothing on the Phoenix. Kuurth (forget his name) got owned by Colossusnaut and now Colossusnaut has the PF boost so yeah. and as for GG transmutating the P5 get real, the PF would just transmute them back... look what happened to PF Namor, Wanda molecular deconsrtucted him and the PF bought him back... and PF Cyclops, Emma and Namor all owned Thor who The Worthy had trouble with.. didnt Thor kill Angir (Thing)?

ODG
It'd be a fight. But the Phoenix Five should win. It's the Phoenixforce, after all.

h1a8
How would any of the P5 put Kuurth down?
I'm not sure any of the p5 can break enchanted uru or adamantium so Nul may be a problem.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
How would any of the P5 put Kuurth down?
I'm not sure any of the p5 can break enchanted uru or adamantium so Nul may be a problem.

They transmute Kuurth into a jelly.

Nul can be BFR'd.

wxyz
Can Kuurth be transmuted though?

And if so, can't he just come right back like he did when he was bfr'd?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by wxyz
Can Kuurth be transmuted though?

And if so, can't he just come right back like he did when he was bfr'd?

Well, Adam X ignited his blood. It worked well - too well, in fact.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
They transmute Kuurth into a jelly.

Nul can be BFR'd.

I disagree.
1. What are the PFive transmuting feats? I never seen them just transmuting beings with great durability.
2. The hammer allows Nul to get back to the BF.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
I disagree.
1. What are the PFive transmuting feats? I never seen them just transmuting beings with great durability.
2. The hammer allows Nul to get back to the BF.

1. You don't need great durability. Adam X turned Kuurth's blood into fire. Moreover, Emma was shattered and put herself back together. Moreover, we have Magik, whose Soulsword is magical Kryptonite. MOREOVER, we have the Phoenix Force as a sentient force of its own.

2. You're getting mixed up with Kuurth. When Thor BFRd Nuul, he didn't return.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
1. You don't need great durability. Adam X turned Kuurth's blood into fire. Moreover, Emma was shattered and put herself back together. Moreover, we have Magik, whose Soulsword is magical Kryptonite. MOREOVER, we have the Phoenix Force as a sentient force of its own.

2. You're getting mixed up with Kuurth. When Thor BFRd Nuul, he didn't return.
Durability resists transmutation.
Otherwise Surfer can turn anyone into a table (Odin, Thor, Hercules, etc)


Adam x didn't transmute any part of Kuurth. Do you know how his powers work? He transfers oxygen to the blood and then sends an electric pulse to ignite it.

Kuurth can reform himself from changes made to him. Look how he reformed his helmet and became normal after his bloods was ignited.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
Durability resists transmutation.
Otherwise Surfer can turn anyone into a table (Odin, Thor, Hercules, etc)


Adam x didn't transmute any part of Kuurth. Do you know how his powers work? He transfers oxygen to the blood and then sends an electric pulse to ignite it.

Kuurth can reform himself from changes made to him. Look how he reformed his helmet and became normal after his bloods was ignited.

You're forgetting that Magik has her Soulsword. Which would negate magic. Which makes the durability moot.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You're forgetting that Magik has her Soulsword. Which would negate magic. Which makes the durability moot.

I don't recall Magik transmuting Kuurth.
Even so then how is that relevant to the P5?
Not only they need to show that they are capable of transmuting something but they also need to show the propensity to do so.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
I don't recall Magik transmuting Kuurth.
Even so then how is that relevant to the P5?
Not only they need to show that they are capable of transmuting something but they also need to show the propensity to do so.

No no...I meant that Magik's sword can dispel magical links.

She is one of the P5.

She can cut Kuurth off from the Serpent. Turning him into.....Cain Marko.

DarkSaint85
Her Souldsword:
https://i.imgur.com/5bnwst3.jpg

Against Asgardian magic (like what Cul uses!):
https://i.imgur.com/K1vSS5W.jpg

This isn't BFR, btw - this is Magik bringing Limbo to her:
https://www.zonanegativa.com/imagenes/2012/07/5617.jpg

Once in Limbo - she cut Colossus from Cytorrak when he was the Juggernaut:
https://i.imgur.com/RG0VDYJ.jpg

This fight has brought a team of magical entities.....against magical Kryptonite.

DarkSaint85
As for the propensity argument- you forgot who the Worthy are fighting. Cyclops is the leader, and he preps, and he KNOWS Kuurth and his capabilities ( as do the rest of the P5).

So yeah, they're going to use trump cards from the get go.

Sin I AM
Didn't the Xmen try to bfr Cain and fail?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Didn't the Xmen try to bfr Cain and fail?
They did.

Hence why I'm not saying they BFR Cainthumb up

StiltmanFTW
Sin's every single post in 2020:

https://i.gifer.com/5xxa.gif

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No no...I meant that Magik's sword can dispel magical links.

She is one of the P5.

She can cut Kuurth off from the Serpent. Turning him into.....Cain Marko.

She has to be in limbo to attempt to cut him off.
Your scans don't prove she can just make limbo appear anywhere and her opponents inside of it.
Scott may be the leader but nowhere has he or any of the P5 thought about transmuting anyone (assuming they can).

You haven't even shown that they have the capability of doing it.
Don't argue potential, argue power and know how.
Conclusive showings that prove any of the P5 can transmute a being.
Conclusive reasoning or showings that they will even think about it ever.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
She has to be in limbo to attempt to cut him off.
Your scans don't prove she can just make limbo appear anywhere and her opponents inside of it.
Scott may be the leader but nowhere has he or any of the P5 thought about transmuting anyone (assuming they can).

You haven't even shown that they have the capability of doing it.
Don't argue potential, argue power and know how.
Conclusive showings that prove any of the P5 can transmute a being.
Conclusive reasoning or showings that they will even think about it ever.

Erm...she brought Limbo to Earth to use as a prison.

I'm not arguing potential. I am arguing that Magik, using her sword (which is standard equipment), would negate the Serpent.

She uses her sword like, all the time.

Know how = Cyclops knows what Kuurth is capable of.

I am arguing that Magik would use her sword and depower Kuurth.

wxyz
I'm not convinced Kuurth can be transmuted.

I'm also not sure about Magik cutting Kuurth off from BOTH of his power sources (Cytorrak, Serpent).

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by wxyz
I'm not convinced Kuurth can be transmuted.

I'm also not sure about Magik cutting Kuurth off from BOTH of his power sources (Cytorrak, Serpent).

Magik without 20% of the Phoenix Force was already able to cut Cytorrak off, casually, and could have done it at any time she wanted. Cytorrak's unstoppable enchantment, btw, was so powerful Kuurth was unable to stop it.

There's literally nothing stopping her from using her stepping disks to cut EVERY other Worthy member off, casually, actually.

Plus, Hope managed to transmute his helmet off:

https://i.postimg.cc/5ycHDhjV/RCO018-1468918580.jpg

All this is by the by, incidentally.

Even IF the Worthy manage to defeat, say, Namor or Emma - that only makes the others stronger.

Emma was shattered into pieces, and thrown into space - she reformed and kicked Thor's ass:
https://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/thoremmafrostbattle8.jpg

At the end, when it was just Cyclops, he was existing all across the globe simultaneously, and was having mental dinner with Emma whilst fighting the Avengers and having his mind attacked by Prof X - then later, Wolverine was putting his claws through his head etc etc.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Magik without 20% of the Phoenix Force was already able to cut Cytorrak off, casually, and could have done it at any time she wanted. Cytorrak's unstoppable enchantment, btw, was so powerful Kuurth was unable to stop it.

There's literally nothing stopping her from using her stepping disks to cut EVERY other Worthy member off, casually, actually.

Plus, Hope managed to transmute his helmet off:

https://i.postimg.cc/5ycHDhjV/RCO018-1468918580.jpg

All this is by the by, incidentally.

Even IF the Worthy manage to defeat, say, Namor or Emma - that only makes the others stronger.

Emma was shattered into pieces, and thrown into space - she reformed and kicked Thor's ass:
https://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/thoremmafrostbattle8.jpg

At the end, when it was just Cyclops, he was existing all across the globe simultaneously, and was having mental dinner with Emma whilst fighting the Avengers and having his mind attacked by Prof X - then later, Wolverine was putting his claws through his head etc etc.

Magik has to be in her domain to access that power.
She just can't gesture and then both her and her opponent is in her domain.

Even if she could then that would be leaving the battlefield, which is not allowed.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
Magik has to be in her domain to access that power.
She just can't gesture and then both her and her opponent is in her domain.

Even if she could then that would be leaving the battlefield, which is not allowed.

She can bring her domain to Earth. So she's not leaving.

But she CAN BFR every other Worthy member ,at once.

So it becomes The Phoenix 5.... against Kuurth.

She then brings Limbo to Earth
Depowers him.

Then.....wins.

Magik could solo this.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She can bring her domain to Earth. So she's not leaving.

But she CAN BFR every other Worthy member ,at once.

So it becomes The Phoenix 5.... against Kuurth.

She then brings Limbo to Earth
Depowers him.

Then.....wins.

Magik could solo this.
2 problems
1. Her having brought it to Earth (past tense) doesn't mean she can make it appear anywhere on Earth or make it suddenly appear around her and her opponent.

2. A portal, which is located on the battlefield, and that leads to another dimension, still allows the person who goes through it to leave the battlefield.

Think of it this way, if an observer was watching two combatants fight on the battlefield then suddenly Magik and her opponent entered her domain then the observer wouldn't see them anymore since they are no longer on the battlefield but in her domain instead.

The spirit of the rule would be violated regardless.

DarkSaint85
Magik doesn't go through the portals with her targets...... She closes them behind them.

https://m.imgur.com/s9vKkfI

And with your first point.....she did beforehand, not sure why suddenly this isn't proof she can't lol

Sin I AM
Hmm so if Magik can just casually depower someone how come her and Colossus went to beg Cytorrak to do it?

DarkSaint85
If only someone posted the scan explaining why on the preceding page..,.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
If only someone posted the scan explaining why on the preceding page..,.

Must've missed that post.

DarkSaint85
Probably.

But then you also missed my post where I specifically said Nuul was the one being BFRd not Kuurth.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Probably.

But then you also missed my post where I specifically said Nuul was the one being BFRd not Kuurth.

No i saw it i just ignored it.

DarkSaint85
Probably ignored the scan that answered your question too.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Magik doesn't go through the portals with her targets...... She closes them behind them.

https://m.imgur.com/s9vKkfI

And with your first point.....she did beforehand, not sure why suddenly this isn't proof she can't lol
You just gave proof of her Bfr people, not suddenly making her and her opponent become in limbo.


Let's assume she can, just like in the scan you showed.
You didn't address ALL my points. The other point was that would be considered leaving the battlefield (which is against the rules). The very scan above shows this. The men are no longer on the battlefield.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
You just gave proof of her Bfr people, not suddenly making her and her opponent become in limbo.


Let's assume she can, just like in the scan you showed.
You didn't address ALL my points. The other point was that would be considered leaving the battlefield (which is against the rules). The very scan above shows this. The men are no longer on the battlefield.

My first scan, posted on the previous page, addressed this.

She brought Limbo to Earth.

So let's say the two teams face off.

Magik sends the Worthy into Limbo.

Kuurth alone remains, because....well, he can't be BFRd.

She then brings Limbo to the battlefield (as she did when she created the prisons around the world to contain rhe P5's enemies).

The battlefield is now Limbo on Earth. OP never specifies it is limited to Earth, btw.

Magik is now all powerful, as she is now in her domain. Uses the Sword.

This, by the way, is only Magik. We are ignoring the fact that the other P5 members are there. And that every single time a P5 member is defeated, the others become stronger.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My first scan, posted on the previous page, addressed this.

She brought Limbo to Earth.

So let's say the two teams face off.

Magik sends the Worthy into Limbo.

Kuurth alone remains, because....well, he can't be BFRd.

She then brings Limbo to the battlefield (as she did when she created the prisons around the world to contain rhe P5's enemies).

The battlefield is now Limbo on Earth. OP never specifies it is limited to Earth, btw.

Magik is now all powerful, as she is now in her domain. Uses the Sword.

This, by the way, is only Magik. We are ignoring the fact that the other P5 members are there. And that every single time a P5 member is defeated, the others become stronger.

Wrong. If she enters limbo then she disappears from the battlefield.
The battlefield is a featureless environment that is 0.5km in distance.
The entire Earth is not the battlefield.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
Wrong. If she enters limbo then she disappears from the battlefield.
The battlefield is a featureless environment that is 0.5km in distance.
The entire Earth is not the battlefield.

But Limbo is on the battlefield. It IS the battlefield.

See my previous scan. She brought Hell to Earth. That doesn't mean Earth was replaced, or that continent was suddenly replaced. No.

Forum rules:



This last point even ignores mine, about bringing Limbo to Earth - but if needed, she can.

Moreover, you kinda ignored all the other points.

1. She doesn't have to enter the stepping discs to BFR. So match starts, the rest of the Worthy all get sent to Limbo.

2. That leaves Kuurth against the Phoenix 5.

3. IF any of the 5 get defeated, the remaining ones get stronger.

wxyz
Assuming Magik can't sever Kuurths' power source.

What evidence is there the P5 can put him down?

Even if Kuurth defeats 4 of them and leaves one of the P5 at full power, can that one person put Kuurth down?

Parmaniac
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This last point even ignores mine, about bringing Limbo to Earth - but if needed, she can.

Moreover, you kinda ignored all the other points.

1. She doesn't have to enter the stepping discs to BFR. So match starts, the rest of the Worthy all get sent to Limbo.

2. That leaves Kuurth against the Phoenix 5.

3. IF any of the 5 get defeated, the remaining ones get stronger. If we take Magik out, do you think Kuurth could take the P5 (or better P4)?

ShadowFyre
The Phoenix already ****ed the popular brother for like thousands of years so she should have a good idea what the Serpent is bringing to the table

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by wxyz
Assuming Magik can't sever Kuurths' power source.

What evidence is there the P5 can put him down?

Even if Kuurth defeats 4 of them and leaves one of the P5 at full power, can that one person put Kuurth down?

The reverse is also true.

Kuurth could maybe take out Namor and Colossus (maybe).

Emma was literally smashed into bits and thrown into space. Didn't hurt her, and she turned Thor into Swiss cheese.

Cyclops was existing simultaneously all around the world,and was immune to physical and mental damage.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But Limbo is on the battlefield. It IS the battlefield.

See my previous scan. She brought Hell to Earth. That doesn't mean Earth was replaced, or that continent was suddenly replaced. No.

Forum rules:



This last point even ignores mine, about bringing Limbo to Earth - but if needed, she can.

Moreover, you kinda ignored all the other points.

1. She doesn't have to enter the stepping discs to BFR. So match starts, the rest of the Worthy all get sent to Limbo.

2. That leaves Kuurth against the Phoenix 5.

3. IF any of the 5 get defeated, the remaining ones get stronger.

Wrong. If she travels to limbo then she would disappear off the battlefield. Stop being stubborn now. You can't be right all the time.

Fighters viewed from spectators would see her disappear (just like the men she Bfr) from the battlefield. They walk around searching for her saying, "where the hell did she go?"

Her base powers work on the battlefield yes.
Her disappearing off the battlefield is breaking the rules. Otherwise she can stalemate anyone that can't travel to limbo by simply going to limbo and staying there indefinitely.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
Wrong. If she travels to limbo then she would disappear off the battlefield. Stop being stubborn now. You can't be right all the time.

Fighters viewed from spectators would see her disappear (just like the men she Bfr) from the battlefield. They walk around searching for her saying, "where the hell did she go?"

Her base powers work on the battlefield yes.
Her disappearing off the battlefield is breaking the rules. Otherwise she can stalemate anyone that can't travel to limbo by simply going to limbo and staying there indefinitely.
She's not traveling to Limbo when dealing with Kuurth.

She's bringing Limbo to her.

When she deals with the other Worthy, she's not traveling with them. DO YOI NOT UNDERSTAND THIS? Or are you deliberately trying to be obtuse?

Once more:. WHEN SENDING THE OTHER FOUR WORTHYS TO LIMBO, SHE DOES NOT GO WITH THEM.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Parmaniac
If we take Magik out, do you think Kuurth could take the P5 (or better P4)?

So Thor, whilst injured, could fight Angrir and Nuul on his own. Had to resort to BFRing Nuul, sure, but he still fought them.

Whilst sharing power with the other 4, Cyclops alone could stop an enraged Thor with his index finger, casually:
https://i.postimg.cc/909v601F/RCO034-1475743076-1.jpg

And this is when he only had 20% of the PF.

When he had 50%, him and Emma were having a psychic dinner, whilst Xavier was fighting them mentally, and the X-men (heavy hitters like Storm etc) PLUS the Avengers (Thor/Rulk/Hulk etc) were fighting them:

https://i.postimg.cc/g2hngH3f/RCO014.jpg
....
https://i.postimg.cc/m2JP351Y/RCO015.jpg
....
https://i.postimg.cc/vmdDkxzD/RCO020.jpg
Note the last scan. They weren't even using their full power still.

When he had 100%? He was all over the entire globe, ripping it apart whilst simultaneously fighting everyone at once, and was immune to all physical damage:
https://i.postimg.cc/xTKwgkc6/RCO009-1475730126.jpg
....
https://i.postimg.cc/bwgKcK0b/RCO010-1475730126.jpg
....
https://i.postimg.cc/W1TQy2ZT/RCO011-1475730126.jpg

Even adamantium claws through his head did nothing:
https://i.postimg.cc/rFX6SGFd/RCO012-1475730126.jpg

And he was existing across time and space:
https://i.postimg.cc/Y96PRZSh/RCO008.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/sx3NNmBK/RCO011.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/hjWw9cck/RCO012.jpg

So if you were to ask me if a powerful tank who has a big hammer could take the P5 down? No, lol. Even if Magik wasn't present.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She's not traveling to Limbo when dealing with Kuurth.

She's bringing Limbo to her.

When she deals with the other Worthy, she's not traveling with them. DO YOI NOT UNDERSTAND THIS? Or are you deliberately trying to be obtuse?

Once more:. WHEN SENDING THE OTHER FOUR WORTHYS TO LIMBO, SHE DOES NOT GO WITH THEM.

Limbo is another dimension. She enters that dimension then she disappears from the battlefield. What would her opponent see if she enters the limbo dimension while on the battlefield? Her having vanished completely. How would the fight continue if she decides to stay there and not come back?

I'm solely arguing about Kuurth. Never argued about the other worthy.
She has to enter limbo to even have a chance of removing his powers. The other worthy can take her out first if they plan ahead (attack her first). But I digress.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
Limbo is another dimension. She enters that dimension then she disappears from the battlefield. What would her opponent see if she enters the limbo dimension while on the battlefield? Her having vanished completely. How would the fight continue if she decides to stay there and not come back?

I'm solely arguing about Kuurth. Never argued about the other worthy.
She has to enter limbo to even have a chance of removing his powers. The other worthy can take her out first if they plan ahead (attack her first). But I digress.

She brings Limbo to Earth.

https://i.postimg.cc/02XcxPMp/7058384-0540584757-z1-ZPpo-EMIf-IG-Ra-N4r-NKt-C7-XVSk-IRwao35m-Qz-El-Z8-Luk0-OYv-UCve3y0-q5-Ta-Xb8-Ay-Yojc-XJutd-Sy-s160.jpg

Your argument is like - well, if Superman flies up into the air, he has left the battlefield willingly! So he loses! Or, Batman is standing on his cape! The cape is not part of the battlefield! He loses!

But no. My argument is that the Magik brings Limbo to the battlefield, and the battlefield BECOMES Limbo (NOT that Limbo becomes the battlefield - which is where you are mistaken). A subtle difference. She is not popping out to another dimension. She is making the battlefield take on the aspects of her domain - just like she made Russia take on aspects of her domain in the scan.

As for the rest of your digression, the Phoenix 5 have telepathic communication at all times, and a master strategist in Cyclops who has already faced their most dangerous member and had Plan 13 work.

DarkSaint85
Again: she is NOT sending Kuurth and herself to Limbo. She is bringing Limbo to her. That is not 'leaving' the battlefield.

Let's say Magneto is fighting, say, Psylocke.

He grabs metal from somewhere, and throws it at her. She nimbly runs up the pieces of metal whilst they are in midair.

Has she BFR'd herself??

Let's go larger in scale. He brings an entire aircraft carrier. She runs up it as he flings it at her.

Has she left the battlefield? If Magneto then stands on this aircraft carrier in the middle of the battlefield, has he also left it?

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She brings Limbo to Earth.

https://i.postimg.cc/02XcxPMp/7058384-0540584757-z1-ZPpo-EMIf-IG-Ra-N4r-NKt-C7-XVSk-IRwao35m-Qz-El-Z8-Luk0-OYv-UCve3y0-q5-Ta-Xb8-Ay-Yojc-XJutd-Sy-s160.jpg

Your argument is like - well, if Superman flies up into the air, he has left the battlefield willingly! So he loses! Or, Batman is standing on his cape! The cape is not part of the battlefield! He loses!

But no. My argument is that the Magik brings Limbo to the battlefield, and the battlefield BECOMES Limbo (NOT that Limbo becomes the battlefield - which is where you are mistaken). A subtle difference. She is not popping out to another dimension. She is making the battlefield take on the aspects of her domain - just like she made Russia take on aspects of her domain in the scan.

As for the rest of your digression, the Phoenix 5 have telepathic communication at all times, and a master strategist in Cyclops who has already faced their most dangerous member and had Plan 13 work.

She stated she brought a PIECE of limbo back to Earth (bring a demon back or a sliver of limbo energy). Not then entire dimension. The battlefield consists of the ground and everything above and below until a certain distance away.

She's not making the battlefield appear to be limbo, she's actually disappearing and traveling to limbo. Every appearance at or before P5 incident shows this. No appearance at or before P5 shows her in limbo and at the same time still at the place she was before entering limbo.

The Earth is not the battlefield. If the battle starts in new York then a combatant teleporting to France is LEAVING THE BATTLEFIELD although it is still Earth.

She has to completely travel to limbo in order to gain the ability to remove magical connections.

What issue is that anyway?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
She stated she brought a PIECE of limbo back to Earth (bring a demon back or a sliver of limbo energy). Not then entire dimension. The battlefield consists of the ground and everything above and below until a certain distance away.

She's not making the battlefield appear to be limbo, she's actually disappearing and traveling to limbo. Every appearance at or before P5 incident shows this. No appearance at or before P5 shows her in limbo and at the same time still at the place she was before entering limbo.

The Earth is not the battlefield. If the battle starts in new York then a combatant teleporting to France is LEAVING THE BATTLEFIELD although it is still Earth.

She has to completely travel to limbo in order to gain the ability to remove magical connections.

What issue is that anyway?

She doesn't need the entirety of Limbo for her powers to become absolute, though.

Again, your argument is like taking a box, and having Batman stand on it - then arguing he has 'left' the battlefield. Nowhere in the rules state anything about a distance above or below, btw. It merely states that it would morph to accomodate them.



I mean, what next? As in my example, if Magneto brings an aircraft carrier to the battlefield, and someone enters it....have they been BFRd?

Parmaniac
Even if she would leave I'm almost certain that if you do it for just a brief moment it doesn't count as BFR. Otherwise characters like The Spot would be totally pointless.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Even if she would leave I'm almost certain that if you do it for just a brief moment it doesn't count as BFR. Otherwise characters like The Spot would be totally pointless.

Nightcrawler ports into another dimension, then back into 616 all the time.

Edit: it also makes a mockery of fights with herald characters. Say Hulk faces off against Abomination. Or Superman faces off against Doomsday.

What if Superman and Doomsday are punching each other at the 0.5km edge....and Doomsday gets shifted 1cm over the line when he plants his foot to get a better punch on Superman...

Has Doomsday just 'left' the battlefield?? Flash never gets to IMP, because he never gets enough ground to accelerate, lol. Any fliers who take to the sky BFRs themselves. if MMH phases into the ground, he has BFRd himself - same with Terra, or Geo-Force etc.

Deadman and Zoom automatically forfeit the match as they aren't even in the same dimension/timeline.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
1. She doesn't need the entirety of Limbo for her powers to become absolute, though.

2. Again, your argument is like taking a box, and having Batman stand on it - then arguing he has 'left' the battlefield. Nowhere in the rules state anything about a distance above or below, btw. It merely states that it would morph to accomodate them.



3. I mean, what next? As in my example, if Magneto brings an aircraft carrier to the battlefield, and someone enters it....have they been BFRd?

1. The burden is in you to prove that. Show her removing Cyttoraks magical connection (or equal or greater) without fully being in limbo.

2. But Batman would still be on the battlefield because he's physically above it. Magik literally wouldn't be there at all. She would be somewhere else entirely. We know by common sense there is a distance involved otherwise Superman can just go to the sun since it would be above the battlefield. The battlefield if 6 miles long (horizon to horizon). You cant go so far up as to be in space.

3. But Magik wouldn't be in a box that's on the battlefield. She literally wouldnt physically be there at all.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
1. The burden is in you to prove that. Show her removing Cyttoraks magical connection (or equal or greater) without fully being in limbo.

2. But Batman would still be on the battlefield because he's physically above it. Magik literally wouldn't be there at all. She would be somewhere else entirely. We know by common sense there is a distance involved otherwise Superman can just go to the sun since it would be above the battlefield. The battlefield if 6 miles long (horizon to horizon). You cant go so far up as to be in space.

3. But Magik wouldn't be in a box that's on the battlefield. She literally wouldnt physically be there at all.

It was Hell....ON EARTH.

This will be Limbo...ON THE BATTLEFIELD. What do you think was above her Limbo in Russia? That's right, Russian airspace.

What was below? Russia.

Around? Russia. The comic even gives an Earthly location.

But make no mistake, even with this piece, it was still her place of power.

https://i.postimg.cc/8C23hWhk/RCO007-1464699242.jpg

Where do the rules state 6 miles long? Where does it state depth/height? If not, then you are just making things up.

Edit: think of it as a...box of Limbo, on the battlefield, if it helps you understand.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It was Hell....ON EARTH.

This will be Limbo...ON THE BATTLEFIELD. What do you think was above her Limbo in Russia? That's right, Russian airspace.

What was below? Russia.

Around? Russia. The comic even gives an Earthly location.

Where do the rules state 6 miles long? Where does it state depth/height? If not, then you are just making things up.

What are you talking about? Limbo is a dimension. You have to prove (not speculate)
1. She has absolute power without being fully inside of limbo
2. She is physically on the battlefield when she is in limbo. Not having vanished somewhere else where no one can see or touch her.

The scan you showed says she brought a PIECE of limbo to Earth.
That could mean she can access limbo from EARTH, it could mean there is some sliver of energy from the limbo dimension brought to Earth, or many other things. There is a reason the writer said, "PIECE".

You have to show her being fully in limbo WHILE still being in the same place on Earth before she went to limbo.

Because if you can't then you are just speculating.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
What are you talking about? Limbo is a dimension. You have to prove (not speculate)
1. She has absolute power without being fully inside of limbo
2. She is physically on the battlefield when she is in limbo. Not having vanished somewhere else where no one can see or touch her.

The scan you showed says she brought a PIECE of limbo to Earth.
That could mean she can access limbo from EARTH, it could mean there is some sliver of energy from the limbo dimension brought to Earth, or many other things. There is a reason the writer said, "PIECE".

You have to show her being fully in limbo WHILE still being in the same place on Earth before she went to limbo.

Because if you can't then you are just speculating.

...They were still in Russia. The volcano was in Russia, they went inside, and inside was Limbo. Outside? Russia.

YOU'RE the one speculating. I am merely going by the words and art. She brought a piece of Limbo to Earth, and her power was absolute there. Earth however still surrounded it.

By the by, here she is OUTSIDE of Limbo, vs the Juggernaut:
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/10/108342/6994713-screen%20shot%202019-07-07%20at%201.39.19%20am.png

That's when she stops holding back, by the by. No Phoenix amp either.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
...They were still in Russia. The volcano was in Russia, they went inside, and inside was Limbo. Outside? Russia.

YOU'RE the one speculating. I am merely going by the words and art. She brought a piece of Limbo to Earth, and her power was absolute there. Earth however still surrounded it.

By the by, here she is OUTSIDE of Limbo, vs the Juggernaut:
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/10/108342/6994713-screen%20shot%202019-07-07%20at%201.39.19%20am.png

That's when she stops holding back, by the by. No Phoenix amp either.

I don't see where Cain was still in Russia. The background doesn't show that.

What issue is that?

DarkSaint85
I think you're getting confused.

Read through the various posts properly, please.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I think you're getting confused.

Read through the various posts properly, please.

You never gave me issue number

DarkSaint85
I said posts, not issues......
You do this with every single debate we've had.

You don't actually know what you're arguing against, almost never post scans or issues of your own, but simply try to nitpick others with your 'logic".

Uncanny X-Men 21, X men Legacy 270. A simple Google would have found it.

h1a8
How can I Google a scan?
I post issues or scans upon request. Why would I not?

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I said posts, not issues......
You do this with every single debate we've had.

You don't actually know what you're arguing against, almost never post scans or issues of your own, but simply try to nitpick others with your 'logic".

Uncanny X-Men 21, X men Legacy 270. A simple Google would have found it.

Ok so you are using irrelevant comics now. These events happened after P5 story.
Magik has gotten upgrades over time.
Clearly you see she's different (visually).
Also she physically took out the ruby from Cain.

Feats before or when P5 saga are valid. No feats after receiving upgrades are valid.

So I'll summarize
1. You never showed her creating limbo on the battlefield in which she is still physically present. Hell, in the comic you posted a scan of still shows her going through portals to get to another location.

2. You never proved that she has ABSOLUTE power without fully being inside limbo. You stated it like it was a fact and it's not. I can state non facts all day long without proof. It's easy.

Parmaniac
laughing out loud

Insane Titan
Originally posted by h1a8
Ok so you are using irrelevant comics now. These events happened after P5 story.
Magik has gotten upgrades over time.
Clearly you see she's different (visually).
Also she physically took out the ruby from Cain.

Feats before or when P5 saga are valid. No feats after receiving upgrades are valid.

So I'll summarize
1. You never showed her creating limbo on the battlefield in which she is still physically present. Hell, in the comic you posted a scan of still shows her going through portals to get to another location.

2. You never proved that she has ABSOLUTE power without fully being inside limbo. You stated it like it was a fact and it's not. I can state non facts all day long without proof. It's easy. retard

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Even adamantium claws through his head did nothing:
https://i.postimg.cc/rFX6SGFd/RCO012-1475730126.jpg



That scene was shown again in a flashback shortly after the event concluded, iirc.

Though he was stabbing Cyke with his right hand, not his left, I think.

Guess we *could* argue he stabbed him twice and it did nothing. Or maybe it was just an error.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
Ok so you are using irrelevant comics now. These events happened after P5 story.
Magik has gotten upgrades over time.
Clearly you see she's different (visually).
Also she physically took out the ruby from Cain.

Feats before or when P5 saga are valid. No feats after receiving upgrades are valid.

So I'll summarize
1. You never showed her creating limbo on the battlefield in which she is still physically present. Hell, in the comic you posted a scan of still shows her going through portals to get to another location.

2. You never proved that she has ABSOLUTE power without fully being inside limbo. You stated it like it was a fact and it's not. I can state non facts all day long without proof. It's easy.

So you didn't even read the comics for which I actually took the time and effort to give you issue numbers for, very nice thumb up

You are just trolling at this point.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That scene was shown again in a flashback shortly after the event concluded, iirc.

Though he was stabbing Cyke with his right hand, not his left, I think.

Guess we *could* argue he stabbed him twice and it did nothing. Or maybe it was just an error.

Yup I think I posted both scans too, in my reply to wxyz.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you didn't even read the comics for which I actually took the time and effort to give you issue numbers for, very nice thumb up

You are just trolling at this point.

I read most of the comic yes. I have access to most Marvel comics. Just needed the issue numbers. That's why I said what I said.

That version of Magik is irrelevant to this version.
Also, that version did not create limbo on the battlefield. She just physically reached into Marko's chest and retrieved the ruby.

So you are basically assuming that what i said doesn't refute your point because you thought I didn't read the comic?
That's silly logic.
Why would I ask for issue numbers if I'm not going to read the comic and find out what actually happened?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
I read most of the comic yes. I have access to most Marvel comics. Just needed the issue numbers. That's why I said what I said.
Then why did you say they needed portals to access the prison? Because they didn't. Nor did Rogue/Ms Marvel need portals to attempt to escape.


DarkChilde Magik is still applicable.


OK? I never said DarkChilde created Limbo - please go back and ACTUALLY READ MY POSTS, lmao.


No, I KNOW you didn't read the comicS I gave you the numbers for, because you said stupid stuff like this:

Nope.


She brought Limbo to Earth. And she has power in Limbo.

Please actually read my posts, and actually read the comics. Come back when you have. Thanks.

DarkSaint85
I see I have to actually hold your hand, though.

Ok, here is Rogue at the entrance to the volcano. Note she does not need any portals, but simply runs back in:
https://i.postimg.cc/9FwCCN4n/RCO009-1464699242.jpg.

Whilst there, she finds Cap Marvel. Who tells of how she tries to escape, not through portals, but by SIMPLY FLYING OUT (only, the demons drag her back):
https://i.postimg.cc/6QX9HLp1/RCO016-w-1464699242.jpg

Don't worry, Rogue is there to help her get out. Except it alerts Magik, who portals back from ELSEWHERE on the planet. Note, however, to escape Limbo - all they need to do is fly out of the volcano:
https://i.postimg.cc/C5zYZccd/RCO017-1464699242.jpg

Other X-men are able to access the Limbo prison, WITHOUT needing to portal in - they just walk in:
https://i.postimg.cc/ydfsYMXw/RCO007-1475729696.jpg

Avengers? Walk in (after portaling in as close as they can):
https://i.postimg.cc/PJ9H117y/RCO011-1475729696.jpg

One cannot, after all, teleport in - even if one is Dr Strange:
https://i.postimg.cc/zGWzSP8g/RCO013-1475729696-1.jpg

Make no mistake, however - it is literally Hell on Earth. It is Limbo (even if just a portion). Despite your idiocy:
Originally posted by h1a8
She stated she brought a PIECE of limbo back to Earth (bring a demon back or a sliver of limbo energy). Not then entire dimension. The battlefield consists of the ground and everything above and below until a certain distance away.


She brought her actual domain to Earth - not the ENTIRETY of it, but she doesn't need to. Confirmed by characters, and narration, and ALSO a summary:
https://i.postimg.cc/43QXj7K4/RCO004-1464699305.jpg

Is it Limbo?
https://i.postimg.cc/pXvMMXHp/RCO015-w-1464699242.jpg

Limbo?
https://i.postimg.cc/QxqG8G8S/RCO012-1464699242.jpg

Limbo
https://i.postimg.cc/85kTGpWR/RCO012-1475729696-1.jpg

In summary:

1. Magik brought Limbo TO Earth (not Earth to Limbo, so not BFR).
2. In Limbo, her power over other magical creatures is absolute - even BEFORE she got the P5 amp.
3. On top of this, if pushed too far, her demonic persona comes out (DarkChylde) - and this person was ALWAYS present before P5.
4. The Darkchylde was able to, without amps, tear Cytorrak's Gem out, depowering Juggernaut, casually - without needing to be in Limbo.

ShadowFyre
I really can't comprehend why this is 7 pages long. We have multiple direct references of power levels via Thor.

Thor can fight any one of the worthy one on one and either one shot them, split with them or maybe even take a loss after a hard fight (null, Kieth) but it would be a fair fight, and it would be even.

Thor, Hulk, Rulk can't even fight a single phoenix avatar 3 on one without getting their shit pushed in.

We also have another direct reference in Red Hulk vs. Angrir/Thing and P5 Namor. Thing did beat the shit outta Rulk but Namor literally ripped his ****ing arm off without looking or even trying.

This alone should be enough to /thread imo

Unless this whole thread is hinging on Magics abilities then I have no idea, don't know shit about her tbh besides her limbo thing and a few haxx instances

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I really can't comprehend why this is 7 pages long. We have multiple direct references of power levels via Thor.

Thor can fight any one of the worthy one on one and either one shot them, split with them or maybe even take a loss after a hard fight (null, Kieth) but it would be a fair fight, and it would be even.

Thor, Hulk, Rulk can't even fight a single phoenix avatar 3 on one without getting their shit pushed in.

We also have another direct reference in Red Hulk vs. Angrir/Thing and P5 Namor. Thing did beat the shit outta Rulk but Namor literally ripped his ****ing arm off without looking or even trying.

This alone should be enough to /thread imo

Unless this whole thread is hinging on Magics abilities then I have no idea, don't know shit about her tbh besides her limbo thing and a few haxx instances

No it's not hinging on Magik - never was. That's the weirdest part.

Even IF four of the P5 were defeated (somehow - Emma was literally shattered and thrown into space, and it didn't harm her, and as the P5 fall the remaining guys get even more powerful), how the phuck is anyone taking down Cyclops/whoever the remaining Phoenix avatar is???

It's 7 pages long because h1 is attempting to construct an argument having never read any of the comics in question - note how he never posts scans or proofs of his own, but calls others into question? Yeah, that's how he 'debates'. The burden of proof is never on him, he always tries to pick holes in others' arguments.

wxyz
Excellent job DS, I agree.

Magik can solo The Worthy.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Then why did you say they needed portals to access the prison? Because they didn't. Nor did Rogue/Ms Marvel need portals to attempt to escape. I never stated such things. Your original argument is that she can be in limbo while still being physically on the battlefield. You never showed this. All showings show otherwise.
You then use a weak argument about her stating she brought a PIECE of limbo to Earth when in fact that doesn't prove anything. It doesn't deduce either
1. He can create a full limbo dimension on top of battlefield where she is still physically present.
2. More importantly, that she has absolute power without fully being in the limbo dimension or with A PIECE of limbo being on Earth. Because you say so? Good logic. Show Magik operating like that version without being in limbo. Show Magik physically removing something from a durable subject while on Esrtg only. Then why use the scan? Especially when the argument is about limbo being on the battlefield. Why change arguments randomly? Nothing stated was stupid. If I didn't read the comic then how did I know that she was opening portals to go to different locations (as shown a few pages before your scan). Remember I was still thinking you were arguing about limbo being on the battlefield. I had no clue you changed arguments.



Wrong! I gave examples of what it means to bring A PIECE of limbo to Earth. In every post you are trying to deceive others by leaving out "A PIECE ". She bought limbo to Earth and she brought A PIECE of limbo to Earth are two different things. Then you state that she has absolute power WITH A PIECE because you say so.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
I never stated such things. Your original argument is that she can be in limbo while still being physically on the battlefield. You never showed this. All showings show otherwise.
In ALL of the AvX scans, I showed Limbo being a physical place on Earth. That she brought there. YOU stated:
Originally posted by h1a8
1. Hell, in the comic you posted a scan of still shows her going through portals to get to another location.
Yet, the Avengers and X-men and Rogue and Cap Marvel were able to simply PHYSICALLY walk/fly in and out, without needing portals. She had brought Limbo to Earth. To go back to my original analogy, it is the equivalent of Magneto bringing an aircraft carrier to the battlefield - if Character X walks into that aircraft carrier, have they been BFRd? NO!



Doesn't need to be the full Limbo dimension.

See Page 6 of this thread. Now cropped for you:

https://i.postimg.cc/Y9VgLsts/RCO007-1464699242.jpg
'This is my place of power'.

Not my words. Not even my emphasis, lol.


I did. with Darkchylde. She wasn't in Limbo. Did you not read the comic? Uncanny X-men 21.


I ....never changed? Read through my posts, read through the actual comics, and come back again.



It is her place of power. I already posted the scan (which, apparently, according to you, you read).

What does that mean, to you?

I then posted multiple scans showing how she was able to block Dr Strange and the Avengers, was able to sense escapees, had every local obeying her commands, even time was skewy - what part of all of this tells you it was in any way shape or form weaker? You claim it, you prove it.

Edit: also, this quote from you:


Yes, and so could Rogue, simply by walking back in. So could Wolverine, Ben Grimm, Cap America.....just by using their two legs.

Of course, had you READ the comics, you'd have known this.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85

In ALL of the AvX scans, I showed Limbo being a physical place on Earth. That she brought there. YOU stated:

Yet, the Avengers and X-men and Rogue and Cap Marvel were able to simply PHYSICALLY walk/fly in and out, without needing portals. She had brought Limbo to Earth. To go back to my original analogy, it is the equivalent of Magneto bringing an aircraft carrier to the battlefield - if Character X walks into that aircraft carrier, have they been BFRd? NO! She brought A PIECE of limbo to a volcano. I know this. You keep saying that she bought LIMBO to Earth when that is different than A PIECE of limbo. Because you say so? Good logic. That still doesn't prove that she has full power and can remove Kuurth's power. It could mean that she has weapons that can deal with the avengers there. Use the demons to trap them.


That has nothing to do with the original argument of her magically creating limbo on the battlefield in order to remove Kuurth's enchantments.

She brought a piece of limbo to a volcano.
She has to go to limbo in order to bring a piece to Earth.
She has to think about bringing a piece of limbo to the battlefield mid battle (propensity argument).
She hasn't been proven to have full power with a piece of limbo. If you disagree then kindly show what things she did within the volcano that she couldn't do outside of it. Because that statement could mean what I said earlier.

ShadowFyre
You would think teleporting would simply be an A to B process and wouldn't really require multiple paragraphs of explanation.

It really doesent matter unless anyone here can take on a full fledged Ohoenix

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
She brought A PIECE of limbo to a volcano. I know this. You keep saying that she bought LIMBO to Earth when that is different than A PIECE of limbo. Because you say so? Good logic. That still doesn't prove that she has full power and can remove Kuurth's power. It could mean that she has weapons that can deal with the avengers there. Use the demons to trap them.


That has nothing to do with the original argument of her magically creating limbo on the battlefield in order to remove Kuurth's enchantments.

She brought a piece of limbo to a volcano.
She has to go to limbo in order to bring a piece to Earth.
She has to think about bringing a piece of limbo to the battlefield mid battle (propensity argument).
She hasn't been proven to have full power with a piece of limbo. If you disagree then kindly show what things she did within the volcano that she couldn't do outside of it. Because that statement could mean what I said earlier.

Prove that she has to go to Limbo to bring it to Earth.

I already did. She could sense escapees, anywhere she was in the world. Because it was her place of power, her dimension.

Prove that she did so to...have weapons/demons (who, by the by, called it Limbo and treated it as such!) to fight the Avengers.

All this stems down to a simple argument:

YOU claim that being in a piece of Limbo means she is weaker than being fully in Limbo. Prove this.

Simple.

She has already stated that it was her place of power.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
1. Prove that she has to go to Limbo to bring it to Earth.

I already did. She could sense escapees, anywhere she was in the world. Because it was her place of power, her dimension.

2. Prove that she did so to...have weapons/demons (who, by the by, called it Limbo and treated it as such!) to fight the Avengers.

All this stems down to a simple argument:

3. YOU claim that being in a piece of Limbo means she is weaker than being fully in Limbo. Prove this.

Simple.

4. She has already stated that it was her place of power.

1. The contrary is for you to prove since you are the one arguing it.
2. The contrary is for you to prove since you are the one arguing it.
3. The contrary is for you to prove since you are the one arguing it.
4. Which could mean what I stated. You must show her doing something that she normally couldn't to prove that she is significantly more powerful (which gives evidence to full power).

In summary, you have to show
1. Her bringing a piece of limbo to the battlefield without going to limbo.
2. Propensity to do this
3. Her having full power with just a piece of limbo.

DarkSaint85
Oh, if THAT Is how it is being played.....
1. I already have. Magik does not exist as a real person. Writer intent was to show it was her place of power. He then wrote her saying 'this is my place of power'.

2. Prove that Kuurth can resist BFR of the level of Magik (who is a better teleporter even without being amped by the PF).

3. Kuurth was depowered by Cyttorak, which was the only thing enabling him to avoid BFR (Colossus with Cyttorak's enchantment was able to BFR him).

Now, I can easily show that when the match starts, Magik will attempt BFR. Propensity.

I can also easily show her speed.

BEFORE we get into all this arguing over Limbo - as YOU have made the (implicit) claim that Kuurth can negate BFR on the scale of Magik (who has, without amps, sent her team mates through time and space etc), prove that he can. And THEN, prove that he can negate an AMPED Magik doing so.

As you are arguing this.

Edit: THEN, after you have proved it - prove that Kuurth is still as unstoppable without Cyttorak. Because he had withdrawn his powers at the end of the X-men fight - and what do forum rules say about versions?



AND:



Current version of Kuurth was only powered by the Serpent.

Insane Titan

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, if THAT Is how it is being played.....
1. I already have. Magik does not exist as a real person. Writer intent was to show it was her place of power. He then wrote her saying 'this is my place of power'.

2. Prove that Kuurth can resist BFR of the level of Magik (who is a better teleporter even without being amped by the PF).

3. Kuurth was depowered by Cyttorak, which was the only thing enabling him to avoid BFR (Colossus with Cyttorak's enchantment was able to BFR him).

Now, I can easily show that when the match starts, Magik will attempt BFR. Propensity.

I can also easily show her speed.

BEFORE we get into all this arguing over Limbo - as YOU have made the (implicit) claim that Kuurth can negate BFR on the scale of Magik (who has, without amps, sent her team mates through time and space etc), prove that he can. And THEN, prove that he can negate an AMPED Magik doing so.

As you are arguing this.

Edit: THEN, after you have proved it - prove that Kuurth is still as unstoppable without Cyttorak. Because he had withdrawn his powers at the end of the X-men fight - and what do forum rules say about versions?



AND:



Current version of Kuurth was only powered by the Serpent.

1. That doesn't prove she can bring limbo or a PIECE OF LIMBO to the battlefield without going to limbo.

2. Kuurth was shown being teleported. He returned through teleportation. Magik never shown the ability to teleport someone somewhere that prevents teleportation out of there.

3. What does this statement have to do with the thread? This fight is P5 vs full powered Worthy per intentions of the OP. You want to argue what the OP intended while knowing what he intended is trolling.

In conclusion, Magik never shown the ability to disallow a being from teleporting. Nor has she shown to know a place that prevents teleportation out of there. Therefore, no such notion as negate Bfr on the scale of Magik exists.

h1a8

DarkSaint85
So you can't prove Kuurth can stop himself from being BFRd. Ok

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you can't prove Kuurth can stop himself from being BFRd. Ok Kuurth can definitely be teleported away and hence BFRed. But he will just teleport back to the battlefield.

Insane Titan

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by h1a8
Kuurth can definitely be teleported away and hence BFRed. But he will just teleport back to the battlefield.

Prove it.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Prove it.
Prove what? That he can teleport back to the battlefield?

DarkSaint85
Yes, when he doesn't have the Cytorrak amp.

h1a8

Insane Titan

8swords
this?

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11127/111274970/7197879-vsx-men4.jpg

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by 8swords
this?

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11127/111274970/7197879-vsx-men4.jpg

Three things:

1. That's Pixie. Magik is way beyond her in teleportation - even without a P5 amp. Magik, for example, has teleported teams across time, across galaxies once iirc. Now, in this thread, she has the PF amping her.

2. Pixie attempted to teleport him to the sun. Magik would be teleporting him to Limbo - where time runs differently, and where she is in absolute control.

3. And lastly, he lost his Cytorrak amp at the end of that issue. After that, he was powered by the Serpent only, and could be BFRd.

I basically realised that h1 and I missed something major - I had been going way too easy on h1. He keeps asking for proof, and picking and choosing showings - so why can't I debate with his rules?

In short, we use the most current versions possible. Which means Kuurth doesn't have the Cytorrak amp.

Classic NES
The moment Kuurth enters limbo it's over. Unless someone wants to argue Kuurth can beat Darkchylde amped with 1/5th the Phoenix Force. Hell, regular Darkchylde owned Dormmamu in Limbo now give her a portion of the Phoenix force. This is a stomp.

h1a8
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Three things:

1. That's Pixie. Magik is way beyond her in teleportation - even without a P5 amp. Magik, for example, has teleported teams across time, across galaxies once iirc. Now, in this thread, she has the PF amping her.

2. Pixie attempted to teleport him to the sun. Magik would be teleporting him to Limbo - where time runs differently, and where she is in absolute control.

3. And lastly, he lost his Cytorrak amp at the end of that issue. After that, he was powered by the Serpent only, and could be BFRd.

I basically realised that h1 and I missed something major - I had been going way too easy on h1. He keeps asking for proof, and picking and choosing showings - so why can't I debate with his rules?

In short, we use the most current versions possible. Which means Kuurth doesn't have the Cytorrak amp.

Being teleported away doesn't negate ones ability to teleport back.
You want to argue about what the OP meant knowing exactly what he meant is trolling.

There have been countless Kuurth threads. No one has ever argued against the intentions of the OP knowing very well what they mean.

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