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Silver Surfer

vs

Kuurth

CIS is off for both sides. No one can win until the other one is DEAD. There is NO BFR.

Silver Surfer is FAIL. Kuurth wins by default.

With no BFR, Surfer doesn't have a lot of options to outright drop Kuurth.

Bfr doesnt even work on kuurth, his enchantment instantaniuosly teleports him back to the battlefield.

Only Thor has a shot against Kuurth of the heralds.And thats why he is the top herald.Being able to deal with magic based opponents unlike SM and SS.

SS loses

Originally posted by Sabro
Only Thor has a shot against Kuurth of the heralds.And thats why he is the top herald.Being able to deal with magic based opponents unlike SM and SS.

SS loses

So Superman has never dealt with a magical based opponent? What's funny is Superman has shown better resistance to magical based attacks than Thor has. Thor is in danger of picking up the SS's reputation for having a glass jaw if his current showings keep up.

Anyway, it's quite obvious CIS-less Surfer wins here for a very solid majority.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
So Superman has never dealt with a magical based opponent? What's funny is Superman has shown better resistance to magical based attacks than Thor has. Thor is in danger of picking up the SS's reputation for having a glass jaw if his current showings keep up.

Anyway, it's quite obvious CIS-less Surfer wins here for a very solid majority. How?

Transmute the air around Kuurth into rubber cement for a submission win.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Transmute the air around Kuurth into rubber cement for a submission win. Submission win? Kuurth doesnt breath.

Kuurth easy.

Originally posted by Stoic
Kuurth easy.


Correction the Surfer would win most conventional battles via BFR, but he would never beat Kuurth with BFR off. When I say BFR I mean that the Surfer could strand Kuurth out in space, and even though Kuurth could make it to another planet unharmed he could never compete with the Surfer's speed in a vacuum. This is Norrin's fight to lose via fisticuffs. We all know that he's not that dumb. Right?

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
What's funny is Superman has shown better resistance to magical based attacks than Thor has.



He's also shown to be consistently portrayed to be at a disadvantage when dealing with magic.

If you look at both their respective histories, I don't see how anyone can honestly say that Superman deals with magic better regularly than Thor does.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
So Superman has never dealt with a magical based opponent? What's funny is Superman has shown better resistance to magical based attacks than Thor has. Thor is in danger of picking up the SS's reputation for having a glass jaw if his current showings keep up.


It's true that while Superman's "weakness" to magic isn't so much a weakness as it is a vulnerability, I wouldn't pick him over Thor in that department.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
So Superman has never dealt with a magical based opponent? What's funny is Superman has shown better resistance to magical based attacks than Thor has. Thor is in danger of picking up the SS's reputation for having a glass jaw if his current showings keep up.

Anyway, it's quite obvious CIS-less Surfer wins here for a very solid majority.

Anyway, is this FP Kuurth or DP Kuurth???

SS kinda struggled against Attuma...

Well, Thor's own magical lightning bolt has one-shot KO'ed him twice that I know of. While Superman was not one-shotted by Thor's magic lightning....So there's one example.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
While Superman was not one-shotted by Thor's magic lightning
Never happened.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Transmute the air around Kuurth into rubber cement for a submission win.
Maybe substitute primary adamantium for rubber cement, make it all the air around him for 50 feet...

Originally posted by basilisk
Maybe substitute primary adamantium for rubber cement, make it all the air around him for 50 feet...


Has the Surfer ever transmuted adamantium, or turned air into it?

Originally posted by Stoic
Has the Surfer ever transmuted adamantium, or turned air into it?

i know sersi has not sure about ss

Originally posted by keiththegreat
Well, Thor's own magical lightning bolt has one-shot KO'ed him twice that I know of. While Superman was not one-shotted by Thor's magic lightning....So there's one example. Read the forum rules. Don't mention crossovers.

Thor doesn't get messed up by vampires and werewolves, Superman does. That's a proper example.

Surfer wins, draws Kuurth into the Astral Plane and leave him there to rot. Or ties his lifeforce to a rock and punts it into deep space.

Or just annihilates him with a few planet destroying blasts...

Originally posted by ODG
Read the forum rules. Don't mention crossovers.

Thor doesn't get messed up by vampires and werewolves, Superman does. That's a proper example.

Crossovers have nothing to do with Thor being one shot by magical lightning. I can point out LOTS of examples of magical lightning not one-shotting Superman without discussing crossovers (and despite Thor fanboys whining, Superman beating Thor's a** is canon). Sounds like you're alittle butt hurt over Thor being one shot by his own lightning twice. Especially when Amadeus Cho and Diablo are the one's doing the one-shotting. It's ok really. He's been one shot by skyfather's magic attacks, Superman has resisted them. Thor's been transmuted by magic, whereas Superman has resisted magical transmutation. Really, even beyond magical resistance, Thor has been one of the worst glass jaws in comics lately. Hulk grabbing his arm and one shotting him with his own hammer is just embarassing. And what's sad is, that's the THIRD TIME a hulk has beaten Thor senseless with his own hammer. I don't even think he should be considered a high herald anymore.

This is really the Surfer's fight to lose, but if he decides to fight him like he fought Thanos, he's gonna to get tuned up.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
Crossovers have nothing to do with Thor being one shot by magical lightning. I can point out LOTS of examples of magical lightning not one-shotting Superman. Sounds like you're alittle butt hurt over Thor being one shot by his own lightning twice. Especially when Amadeus Cho and Diablo are the one's doing the one-shotting. It's ok really. He's been one shot by skyfather's magic attacks, Superman has resisted them. Thor's been transmuted by magic, whereas Superman has resisted magical transmutation. Really, even beyond magical resistance, Thor has been one of the worst glass jaws in comics lately. Hulk grabbing his arm and one shotting him with his own hammer is just embarassing. And what's sad is, that's the THIRD TIME a hulk has beaten Thor senseless with his own hammer. I don't even think he should be considered a high herald anymore.
Thor's a high-herald alright, just that Hulk is an abstract m-body.

HulkForce not only empowers Marvel's omniverse, it also powers Oa with its residues.

Surfer wins, for the record.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
Crossovers have nothing to do with Thor being one shot by magical lightning. I can point out LOTS of examples of magical lightning not one-shotting Superman without discussing crossovers (and despite Thor fanboys whining, Superman beating Thor's a** is canon). Sounds like you're alittle butt hurt over Thor being one shot by his own lightning twice. Especially when Amadeus Cho and Diablo are the one's doing the one-shotting. It's ok really. He's been one shot by skyfather's magic attacks, Superman has resisted them. Thor's been transmuted by magic, whereas Superman has resisted magical transmutation. Really, even beyond magical resistance, Thor has been one of the worst glass jaws in comics lately. Hulk grabbing his arm and one shotting him with his own hammer is just embarassing. And what's sad is, that's the THIRD TIME a hulk has beaten Thor senseless with his own hammer. I don't even think he should be considered a high herald anymore. Thor getting messed up by Mjolnir and his own lightning isn't surprising. Airwalker did it decades before Hulk. Acting like this is anything new only reveals your ignorance. It's like trying to hold Cap getting clonked with his own shield. The sheer surprise of having your own weapons turned against you has as much to do with its effectiveness as its actual power, otherwise you'd have to conclude that Thor's lightning > Zeus'. Needless to say, I don't believe you are that stupid.

Bu I suppose mentioning Superman getting messed up by simple werewolves and vampires did induce your anal leakage. It was meant to as a proper example that relies on evidence. Real evidence. Not crossovers that don't count. So I forgive the tone of your post.

If you guys want to engage in a lowballing contest between Superman and Thor, Thor is not going to come out looking better, I can guarantee that.

haha...Zeus was toying with Thor, so that analogy doesn't really work. Nice try though.

^ Mhmm. You wrap yourself up in that tired excuse of a security blanket. Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
If you guys want to engage in a lowballing contest between Superman and Thor, Thor is not going to come out looking better, I can guarantee that. IN magic resistance? Don't make me laugh. I want comedians, I'll take in a show.

Originally posted by ODG
^ Mhmm. You wrap yourself up in that tired excuse of a security blanket.

So you think Zeus was trying to kill Thor and it took Zeus months and he still couldn't kill him? Mhmm. Wow, talk about a fanboy. So I guess you think Thor is a skyfather, who got one shot by Amadeus Cho, right? Okeedokee.

^ Are we operating in a world where Zeus can only be toying with Thor or trying to kill him? Nice false dichotomy. And by nice, I mean dimwitted. Don't bother offering shallow, insipid remarks. I don't have the patience to deal with them no matter how easily they're defused.

Thor being knocked senseless by his own lightning when he is utterly unexpecting it has happened before, e.g., Masterson Thor. It's happened with other characters and their own weapons/attacks enough that it's a common comic book trope. But feel free to continue thinking that Thor's lightning is superior to Zeus' and Bor's lightning to support your inane supposition that Superman has comparable magic resistance to Thor via inadmissiable and irrelevant crossover evidence.

Superman tanked multiple shazam lightnings and attacks from shazam himself. He tanked a magical attack attack that tore a skyfather to shreds while weakened.

Originally posted by ODG
^ Mhmm. You wrap yourself up in that tired excuse of a security blanket. IN magic resistance? Don't make me laugh. I want comedians, I'll take in a show.

lol. You must be the comedian. Did I say "magic resistance" somewhere in my post? And while I didn't say it, I will say that Thor and Superman's magical resistance is AT LEAST comparable, despite what most people who are ignorant about Superman think. But I really don't feel like having this debate with you again, so go right ahead and believe whatever you want.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
lol. You must be the comedian. Did I say "magic resistance" somewhere in my post? And while I didn't say it, I will say that Thor and Superman's magical resistance is AT LEAST comparable, despite what most people who are ignorant about Superman think. But I really don't feel like having this debate with you again, so go right ahead and believe whatever you want. It is what we were discussing and all that we were discussing. I don't feel compelled to apologize for assuming that you actually read our conversation and understood the issue being discussed before butting in.

Superman does not have comparable magic resistance. He has a handful of normal high herald feats. The rest of his feats make him look awful. And by awful, I mean "helpess as a kitten." Not my own words. On-panel, it's been compared to his weakness to kryptonite numerous times (though not as bad as Kryptonite by Superman's own estimation), but that it's even mentioned in the same breath so often only makes it how obvious his magic vulnerability is.

Silver Surfer and Thor do not share this. Such comparisons are forced and deluded at best. And that shouldn't chafe. It's how they're written.

Silver surfer was koed by a magical teleportation, koed by a magical broom to the head and helpless against an atlantean sorcerer with a magical knife.

Thor looked helpless as a kitten when he was magically transmuted. Hmmm....

Originally posted by keiththegreat
Thor looked helpless as a kitten when he was magically transmuted. Hmmm.... Are you trying to compare Grey Gargoyle's tried and proven powers to Skyhook's? Thor's not helpless as a kitten to magical fire, magical hypnosis and doesn't get roughed up something fierce by normal vampires and werewolves. Don't even attempt this. Judging by your reaction, I might actually make you cry if I started scan-blitzing you.

Blaze and disciple failed to transmute superman and superman just tanked etrigan's hellfire.

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer wins, draws Kuurth into the Astral Plane and leave him there to rot. Or ties his lifeforce to a rock and punts it into deep space.

Or just annihilates him with a few planet destroying blasts... I think you forgot that that they teleported kuurth into a black hole and his
Enchantment instantly brought him back.

Bfr doesnt work on kuurt.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman tanked multiple shazam lightnings and attacks from shazam himself. He tanked a magical attack attack that tore a skyfather to shreds while weakened.

Was Kal eclipsed in that scene?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
I think you forgot that that they teleported kuurth into a black hole and his
Enchantment instantly brought him back.

Bfr doesnt work on kuurt. They teleported him inside a sun (after trying the bottom of the sea and a low Earth orbit), not into a black hole.

But, yes, BFR does not seem to be a viable option here.

Originally posted by Stoic
Was Kal eclipsed in that scene?
In first instance yes, in second no. Eclipso doesn't increase magical resistance anyway.

Originally posted by abhilegend
In first instance yes, in second no. Eclipso doesn't increase magical resistance anyway.

But he does increase tolerance to a body that would otherwise never seek to undergo higher levels of pain no? Superman may have died if Shazam kept hitting him.

Originally posted by Stoic
But he does increase tolerance to a body that would otherwise never seek to undergo higher levels of pain no? Superman may have died if Shazam kept hitting him.
No. Eclipso actually gets weaker with solar radiation you know superman's power source. All he had at that point after nearly a dozen shazam bolts was a nosebleed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No. Eclipso actually gets weaker with solar radiation you know superman's power source. All he had at that point after nearly a dozen shazam bolts was a nosebleed.


And a badly burned chest. According to dialog, I thought Shazam would have kiiled him if he continued to fire on him.

Originally posted by Stoic
But he does increase tolerance to a body that would otherwise never seek to undergo higher levels of pain no? Superman may have died if Shazam kept hitting him. Yes. Lois Eclipso was smacking Superman around.

Originally posted by Stoic
And a badly burned chest. According to dialog, I thought Shazam would have kiiled him if he continued to fire on him.
Burning chest hair doesn't mean burnt chest. Not by the on panel depiction.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Burning chest hair doesn't mean burnt chest. Not by the on panel depiction.

On panel dialog made me believe that Kal would have been put out if Shazam continued bombarding him with magical bolts. All the same, it wasn't a low showing by Superman in the least. It was effing Shazam throwing lightning at him, not Wally the stage Mage. You know what I'm saying?

In my opinion Superman as another poster mentioned isn't as much weak to magic, but it is a vulnerability to him. Meaning he absorbs every impact, and they hurt.

Originally posted by Stoic
Has the Surfer ever transmuted adamantium, or turned air into it? I doubt it. It's just one of those things which we think of doing with the powerset that the characters never seem to actually try. Probably because instantly encasing every opponent in adamantium would end most fights pretty quickly and get stale.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


He's also shown to be consistently portrayed to be at a disadvantage when dealing with magic.

If you look at both their respective histories, I don't see how anyone can honestly say that Superman deals with magic better regularly than Thor does.

You can't and that isn't debatable

Originally posted by basilisk
I doubt it. It's just one of those things which we think of doing with the powerset that the characters never seem to actually try. Probably because instantly encasing every opponent in adamantium would end most fights pretty quickly and get stale.

for my part, i've always sorta tried rationalizing that particular issue (ss transmuting adamantium) by believing ss wouldn't know HOW to create adamantiumn. it's not natural, but man-made. now, were he to spend a little time analyzing it, sure he could almost certainly synthesize it (he was able to synthesize the odin force after all, so how hard could it be for him to synthesize adamantium?)

any kind of rational approach to using Surfer's powers end up with the opposition's eyeballs having Adamantium skewers through them and their brain being dumped in a blackhole.

I'd really love to see Surfer do a Plutonian for a few issues, cut loose and be as sick as he can imagine.

It would take the intervention of some seriously determined skyfather to save Earth from a malicious Surfer.

Originally posted by janus77
any kind of rational approach to using Surfer's powers end up with the opposition's eyeballs having Adamantium skewers through them and their brain being dumped in a blackhole.

I'd really love to see Surfer do a Plutonian for a few issues, cut loose and be as sick as he can imagine.

It would take the intervention of some seriously determined skyfather to save Earth from a malicious Surfer.

Yeah a evil surfer that gives 0 ****s would be a nightmare.

I need to read the issue where Surfer synthesized the OdinForce... It's probably an easy way for him to win this match here.

Just disconnect Kuurth from his master's voice and then simply atomise him.

Originally posted by Stoic
Has the Surfer ever transmuted adamantium, or turned air into it?

Yeah, sort of...in the second Annihilators book he transmuted adamantine.

Originally posted by Mr Marvel
Yeah, sort of...in the second Annihilators book he transmuted adamantine. I don't recall that at all?