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Shuma Gorath has decided to once again try and invade the Marvel Universe . Franklin Richards(adult), being the noble spirit that he is , decides to take on Shuma Gorath , in a battle that takes place in :

1. 616-Universe
2. Shuma's Realm

For Round-1 , both parties must rely on their own personal power .

For Round-2 , Franklin is allowed to amp off his younger self's power , and/or summon (a well-nourished)Galactus . In this round , Shuma Gorath is allowed to use the hordes of demons at his command ,beyond his own personal power , but that is it .

BFR is off in both rounds , and battle is to death in second round .

Who wins ?

1) Franklin
2) Franklin in ragestomp

People don't understand just how powerful Franklin is. As a child, he ROCKED an amped Mephisto in his realm. An unamped Mephisto went toe to toe against Galactus in his realm with the spill over energy wrecking 616 reality. What's worse, Galactus was unable to beat Mephisto without resorting to devouring Mephisto's Hell. Child Franklin ONE shotted Mephisto in hell.

Franklin Richards is beyond ANY demon (Set, Chthon, Zom, etc...).

Franklin

Shuma

Originally posted by zopzop
1) Franklin
2) Franklin in ragestomp

People don't understand just how powerful Franklin is. As a child, he ROCKED an amped Mephisto in his realm. An unamped Mephisto went toe to toe against Galactus in his realm with the spill over energy wrecking 616 reality. What's worse, Galactus was unable to beat Mephisto without resorting to devouring Mephisto's Hell. Child Franklin ONE shotted Mephisto in hell.

Franklin Richards is beyond ANY demon (Set, Chthon, Zom, etc...).

Even the Zom whom LT decided to personally take care of himself ?

Also , to be fair , if Galactus had been portrayed as being as well-fed as he was in F4#600 , he too could have one-shotted Mephisto .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Even the Zom whom LT decided to personally take care of himself ?

Also , to be fair , if Galactus had been portrayed as being as well-fed as he was in F4#600 , he too could have one-shotted Mephisto .
IMHO it wouldn't make a difference. The Galactus that Mephisto fought was a normal, non weakened, non starving Galactus and he could not put Mephisto down in his realm, he had to resort to devouring Mephisto's hell. Child Franklin ONE SHOTTED him and even before that severely wounded an AMPED Mephisto.

Prior to Hickman's take on Galactus, I don't EVER recall him devouring multiple planets to get multiple power ups or whatever it was.

No demon is a match for Franklin.

Originally posted by zopzop
IMHO it wouldn't make a difference. The Galactus that Mephisto fought was a normal, non weakened, non starving Galactus and he could not put Mephisto down in his realm, he had to resort to devouring Mephisto's hell. Child Franklin ONE SHOTTED him and even before that severely wounded an AMPED Mephisto.

Prior to Hickman's take on Galactus, I don't EVER recall him devouring multiple planets to get multiple power ups or whatever it was.

No demon is a match for Franklin.

Are you sure ? IMO , both Galactus and Franklin seemed to be equals in Hickman's fight , although you could make a case for Franklin having been weakened prior to the confrontation w/ the Mad Celestials , due to the strain of holding the whole multiverse from collapsing into a single time-stream(which it eventually did) , and then expending more power to save both Valeria and himself from the Revision Wave .

But still , do you really think that Galactus(fed on 4 planets as he was in F4#600) couldn't one-shot Mephisto in his realm the way Franklin did ?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
But still , do you really think that Galactus(fed on 4 planets as he was in F4#600) couldn't one-shot Mephisto in his realm the way Franklin did ?
No, I'm just saying it's not fair to use Hickman's Galactus and speculate on what might have happened back in his throwdown with Mephisto. To my knowledge Galactus never amped off multiple planets and grew in power exponentially (or whatever) depending on how many planets he ate back to back.

Mephisto fought a non starving, weakened, or otherwise impaired Galactus to a standstill. Yet Child Franklin rocked an amped Mephisto and then ONE SHOTTED a "normal" Mephisto. Franklin wrecked him so bad he was torn into six pieces and needed help to regain his full power.

Originally posted by zopzop
No, I'm just saying it's not fair to use Hickman's Galactus and speculate on what might have happened back in his throwdown with Mephisto. To my knowledge Galactus never amped off multiple planets and grew in power exponentially (or whatever) depending on how many planets he ate back to back.

Mephisto fought a non starving, weakened, or otherwise impaired Galactus to a standstill. Yet Child Franklin rocked an amped Mephisto and then ONE SHOTTED a "normal" Mephisto. Franklin wrecked him so bad he was torn into six pieces and needed help to regain his full power.

Why wouldn't it be fair ? I was merely pointing out that if Galactus had been as well-fed as he was in F4#600 , he too could have beaten Mephisto like kid Franklin did . But yeah , I agree its speculation either way , so I'll let it stay at that .
Btw , was it explicitly mentioned that Galactus was non-starving or even non-hungry in his battle with Mephisto ?

As for this thread that I made , I think that Franklin wins , although I don't know about many feats of Gorath , and most of what I know is limited to the Sise-Neg incident and the one in which Strange's re-entry into the universe threatened to destroy galaxies , and its largely based off of second hand sources .
If anyone can produce some feats which trump what Franklin has done , I'll gladly change my opinion .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Why wouldn't it be fair ? I was merely pointing out that if Galactus had been as well-fed as he was in F4#600 , he too could have beaten Mephisto like kid Franklin did . But yeah , I agree its speculation either way , so I'll let it stay at that .
Btw , was it explicitly mentioned that Galactus was non-starving or even non-hungry in his battle with Mephisto ?
He didn't complain about needing to feed or anything. Almost every time he's hungry or starving, he lets you know on panel.


Good luck with that. Gorath was the character that hyperbole built.

Originally posted by zopzop

He didn't complain about needing to feed or anything. Almost every time he's hungry or starving, he lets you know on panel.


I'll admit that in this case it was the Surfer who suggested him to do it(feeding on Mephisto's realm) , but nevertheless Galactus does declare that "The Great Hunger is once more me ! It must be sated" .
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5058/galactusvsmephisto.th.jpg

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I'll admit that in this case it was the Surfer who suggested him to do it(feeding on Mephisto's realm) , but nevertheless Galactus does declare that "The Great Hunger is once more me ! It must be sated" .
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5058/galactusvsmephisto.th.jpg
This was after the prolonged fight with Mephisto, of course he'd be hungry. This happened with the IB fight too. After the fight was over he demanded Nova find him a world to feast on.

Before he confronted Mephisto there was no indication or statements from him or the narrator that he was hungry or weakened in any way.

FR

Originally posted by zopzop
1) Franklin
2) Franklin in ragestomp

People don't understand just how powerful Franklin is. As a child, he ROCKED an amped Mephisto in his realm. An unamped Mephisto went toe to toe against Galactus in his realm with the spill over energy wrecking 616 reality. What's worse, Galactus was unable to beat Mephisto without resorting to devouring Mephisto's Hell. Child Franklin ONE shotted Mephisto in hell.

Franklin Richards is beyond ANY demon (Set, Chthon, Zom, etc...). Mephisto is nowhere near shumas powerlevel.

They have even been compared in power as such.

Along with the fact the mephisto cannot bust galaxies just by existing.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Mephisto is nowhere near shumas powerlevel.

They have even been compared in power as such.

Along with the fact the mephisto cannot bust galaxies just by existing.

Don't bother talking to Zop about Shuma. Guy thinks Satannish is more powerful than him

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Mephisto is nowhere near shumas powerlevel.

They have even been compared in power as such.

Along with the fact the mephisto cannot bust galaxies just by existing.

That wasn't just Shumas energy threatening to bust galaxies. Galaxies were in the process of being busted during Big G & Mephistos Battle.

Shuma isn't exactly like any of those demons, elder gods, or mephisto.

In his own realm he's really kind of omnipotent. Well, as omnipotent as one can get without things like Infinity Gauntlet or HOTI or being the LT.

I'd say Franklin wins 1 without much trouble, as for 2, he'd be in for the fight of his life.

Originally posted by Sundipped
That wasn't just Shumas energy threatening to bust galaxies. Galaxies were in the process of being busted during Big G & Mephistos Battle.

Thats the power of two beings in a fight.

Shuma power can casually bust galaxies just by his mere presence.

The second is a far greater feat.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Thats the power of two beings in a fight.

Shuma power can casually bust galaxies just by his mere presence.

The second is a far greater feat.

Yeah it was a combined effort but that energy Doc absorbed came from Shuma, his dimension, & his servants. Kaluus' statement wasn't in reference to just Shumas power.

Just one note ***


When child Franklin stomped Mephisto ...

... child Franklin's full potential had been released prior.

It's also not clear whether Franklin busted Meph up while still amped,
but without doubt Meph was not amped when Franky blew him up.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Yeah it was a combined effort but that energy Doc absorbed came from Shuma, his dimension, & his servants. Kaluus' statement wasn't in reference to just Shumas power.

Kaluu was referring specifically to the energies that were absorbed from Shuma-Gorath that would cause the unspecific number of galaxies to be destroyed, not energy from anywhere or anyone else.

Originally posted by CortSether
Kaluu was referring specifically to the energies that were absorbed from Shuma-Gorath that would cause the unspecific number of galaxies to be destroyed, not energy from anywhere or anyone else.

Not likely but what is likely is your wanking of Shuma.

Doc had enough power accumulated to challenge Shuma before he even merged with him. He directly states this:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12609185_shumagorathvsstrangef3.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12609186_shumagorathvsstrangef31.jpg

Now you want to argue that he somehow separated then emitted only Shumas energy when passing through those dimensions?
Come on now.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Not likely but what is likely is your wanking of Shuma.

Doc had enough power accumulated to challenge Shuma before he even merged with him. He directly states this:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12609185_shumagorathvsstrangef3.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12609186_shumagorathvsstrangef31.jpg

Now you want to argue that he somehow separated then emitted only Shumas energy when passing through those dimensions?
Come on now.

Spare me the bs, thanks.

Kaluu says specifically "Of course! The mystic energies you absorbed in combat with Shuma-Gorath!" It's Shuma's energy Kaluu says will destroy galaxies, nothing else. And the whole point of that battle, btw, is that Strange became Shuma-Gorath. When Strange was Shuma-Gorath, that's what enabled the galaxy busting. K?

Originally posted by CortSether
Spare me the bs, thanks.

Kaluu says specifically "Of course! The mystic energies you absorbed in combat with Shuma-Gorath!" It's Shuma's energy Kaluu says will destroy galaxies, nothing else. And the whole point of that battle, btw, is that Strange became Shuma-Gorath. When Strange was Shuma-Gorath, that's what enabled the galaxy busting. K?
ANd then one of those blasts goes off (in a lower dimension than the one Strange fought Gorath in) and nothing happens. Lol Kaluu isn't even singed. So much for galaxy busting.

Originally posted by zopzop
ANd then one of those blasts goes off (in a lower dimension than the one Strange fought Gorath in) and nothing happens. Lol Kaluu isn't even singed. So much for galaxy busting.

*Sigh* the energy completely radiated around Strange as soon as Kaluu attempted to open a portal to a lower plane, destroying the portal in the process. Kaluu wasn't in the energy's radius to get harmed. Duh.

Originally posted by CortSether
Spare me the bs, thanks.

Kaluu says specifically "Of course! The mystic energies you absorbed in combat with Shuma-Gorath!" It's Shuma's energy Kaluu says will destroy galaxies, nothing else. And the whole point of that battle, btw, is that Strange became Shuma-Gorath. When Strange was Shuma-Gorath, that's what enabled the galaxy busting. K?

More wanking.
How could Kaluu even make a proper assessment? He couldn't even make the journey to that plane. He would've died.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/12610423_shumagorathdimension1.jpg

He even asked Doc what happened to him.

Actually,it says in an updated marvel handbook.That when prepairing for a massive energy expenditure,Galactus may consume more planets than usual to amplify his energies.He did try this in secret wars,but the power was ripped away from him by Doom before he could drink it in.Reed Richards said he would probably consume the sun and planet too,as he wuold need every ioata of energy available to do battle with the Beyonder.