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Exactly how powerful is Goku by the end of DBZ? Universe buster? multi-galaxy buster? Galaxy buster? Maybe a little lower?

Large planet buster+, a planet around 50 times the size of Jupiter, means he need to be 100 times stronger to be a low Star buster.

Potential Star buster for Vegeto.

If we go by what Cell said, then Goku should be able to destroy the entire solar system.

Yeah but no one listens to Cell.

Originally posted by Astner
If we go by what Cell said, then Goku should be able to destroy the entire solar system.

If you consider the powerscaling (I am not referring to a powerlevel), what Cell said should have been very much doable.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If you consider the powerscaling (I am not referring to a powerlevel), what Cell said should have been very much doable.
No.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
No.

Roshi, power is geometrically smaller than even SSJ Goku when Goku fought Freiza, still destroyed the moon with ease: two hands.




Jump forward. Piccolo, at a power more than twice of Roshi's...destroyed another moon with one hand with even more ease.





Jump forward where Goku is not exponentially more powerful than both Roshi and Piccolo. Fights a character that can casually destroye planets in his base form....the character's full-powered form is well over a hundred times more powerful than his base-form.


Jump forward to the Cell Games. Cell is more powerful that the androids in his perfect for. The androids are much more powerful than than SSJ's that are also much more powerful than the version of Goku that fought cell.



Cell is massively more powerful compared to Roshi. Roshi can destroy the moon.



Scale Cell. When he claims to have powered up a kamehameha enough to destroy shit many many times over, he's closer to the truth than not.



Conclusion, by the Cell games, Goku and Cell are solar system busters.


By the end of Dragonball, Goku should be able to easily destroy multiple start systems with a full power blast.

We know this is possible because Kid Buu easily destroys many planets.

God not this stupid shit again.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Roshi, power is geometrically smaller than even SSJ Goku when Goku fought Freiza, still destroyed the moon with ease: two hands.

Jump forward. Piccolo, at a power more than twice of Roshi's...destroyed another moon with one hand with even more ease.


Hands mean nothing


ki is a system of diminishings returns. There is not way freiza would fail to blow up namek in his final form otherwise. He would literally have to be using less than .1% of his power.


How much more powerful. Also the andriods had high base stats (somehow) but on a ki level demonstrated nothign impressive. The strongest one was andriod 16 and he was barely island level.



Your bad at this.


No. You have nothing to go on at all. All you have is arbitraty A>b>c

Which is shit and unreliable.

Conclusion, by the Cell games, Goku and Cell are solar system busters.


If I were a teacher I would fail you. Not only have you failed to proven anything you have succeeded in waiting everyone's time. If your going to fail at least be funny at it (i.e Big C)

Planet busting attacks were still killing Goku and friends in the Buu Saga.

By Goku's own words, he couldn't stop Kid Buu's Earth destroying blast, the 50x Jupiter one.

Feats > whatever dadudemon is trying to do.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
God not this stupid shit again.


Hands mean nothing

Pay attention: Gohan's power was cut in half when he was doing a 1 v 1 against Cell because he could only use one hand.


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
ki is a system of diminishings returns. There is not way freiza would fail to blow up namek in his final form otherwise. He would literally have to be using less than .1% of his power.

And when he threw that blast towards the core, it was most certainly not even a small fraction of a percent because he was still able to power up to a 100% form.

So you agree with me. Good. But that may have not been intentional on your part.


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
How much more powerful. Also the andriods had high base stats (somehow) but on a ki level demonstrated nothign impressive. The strongest one was andriod 16 and he was barely island level.

Anywhere from 4 to 10,000,000 times more powerful.


Android 16 is not island level. By the time we get to 16, he's more likely at solar system level. Cell still had plenty of power left over when he made his solar-system level attack.



Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Your bad at this.

You're bad at using the proper form of "you're".

But, no, I am not. That portion you quoted is definitely inexorable: you literally cannot argue against it.


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
No. You have nothing to go on at all. All you have is arbitraty A>b>c

You have not done anything even slightly to prove it is arbitrary logic. You're bad at this thing called "debate".


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Conclusion, by the Cell games, Goku and Cell are solar system busters.

This is a reasonable conclusion since they were almost perfectly matched.

But they are most likely greater because Cell had plenty of energy left over after making his kamehameha form.


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
If I were a teacher I would fail you.

If you were a teacher, you'd be a very bad one. You fail at basic logic and debate. You might be able to pass as a kindergarten teacher as arguing with small children might net you a win every now and again.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Not only have you failed to proven anything you have succeeded in waiting everyone's time.

The opposite is true. Additionally, you have done nothing, even slightly, to disprove what I said. You succeeded in whining, mostly...but nothing of substance was presented to counter my arguments. By the end, you even admit I am right for at least Goku and Cell.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
If your going to fail at least be funny at it (i.e Big C)

Sorry, I cannot comply: I have a hard time failing.


But, while you're busy feeling butthurt and "mad bro", maybe you could learn how to actually debate? Whining does not make a conversation go very far: FYI.



Originally posted by NemeBro
Planet busting attacks were still killing Goku and friends in the Buu Saga.

By Goku's own words, he couldn't stop Kid Buu's Earth destroying blast, the 50x Jupiter one.

Feats > whatever dadudemon is trying to do.


Looks like you have made a serious blunder. No where in my post will you find a portion in my post that says that Goku and co. could tank those massive blasts.

Here's why: no where in my post did I say that Goku and co. could tank those blasts.

I know that seems crazy, but them's the breaks.

^Roshi was an outliner, and Frieza wasn't a casual planet buster seeing as the only times he did so was with a core eruption move.




Cell said his blast has enough juice in it to destroy the solar system.

Gohan fires off a blast strong enough to obliterate Cell's one.

No collateral damage besides a crater. If Cell's blast was going to destroy the solar system, so to would Gohan's.

Hoooooly shit Dadudemon is stupid

Originally posted by dadudemon
Pay attention: Gohan's power was cut in half when he was doing a 1 v 1 against Cell because he could only use one hand.

So you think gohan's ki production comes from his arm...

I mean you'd have to, to say some shit like that. In a series where people have used hands, eyes, mouth, faces, and ****ing feet to shoot the stuff right. Right. RIGHT.



What part of this is supposed to make sense. Your statement isnt a coherent thought. So your saying it wasnt a large part of his power because he... could power up more... So... woudl he be unable to transform if it were? Besides that even in his not 100% 4th form it would still have to be under 1% of his power. Lets review the sequence of events.

1. Frieza attempts to blow up namek
2. Fails miserably
3. Upon seeing that he has failed he doesnt bother to try again

Why. How. It would literally be harder holding back 99.99% of your strength that using 99.98% of it. Freiza would have had to be actively trying to fail to blow up the planet. Which we know he wasnt.




Numbers pulled out your ass. You have provided 0 justification.



Holy shit thats hilarious. Let me get this straight. Andriod 16 who used all his energy attempted to destroy cell at all cost only succeeded in destroying a island so he is solar system level? The same level that you say goku, gohan, and cell are. Despite being vastly weaker... You cant even keep this shit straight in your own head.


Your bad at not being a wall biting mouth breather.


A Horse is bigger than a fly. YOU CAN NOT ARGUE THIS!


Yes. I Have.

Tell me. What is 1 ki. What does it represent. What is the speed of somewhat with 1 ki? What about destructive capability? Durability? Strength? You can not answer any of these quesitons becuase the answers dont exist. Ki is an arbitraty measuring system that is only supposed to make small children and retards go "zomg big numbers!!!111!eleventyone!!"

You could replace ki with something ****ing stupid and it would still make the same about of sense.. " Oh my god im reading over NINE THOUSAND WIZARDS!"


No it isnt since you never explained how the **** they would be solar system busters in the first place





Who taught this trog how to use a computer?



No seriously where are the cameras. Am I being punked right now? This guy cant be real.

Not as powerful as Gohan.

Originally posted by juggerman
Not as powerful as Gohan. http://www.pc-surgeon.net/images/cforum/smileys/SpockEyebrowLift.gif

Originally posted by dadudemon
Looks like you have made a serious blunder. No where in my post will you find a portion in my post that says that Goku and co. could tank those massive blasts.

Here's why: no where in my post did I say that Goku and co. could tank those blasts.

I know that seems crazy, but them's the breaks. This response only applies to the first sentence.

It doesn't actually refute the fact that they had no way of even stopping a blast that was nowhere near solar system busting.

Originally posted by NemeBro
This response only applies to the first sentence.

It doesn't actually refute the fact that they had no way of even stopping a blast that was nowhere near solar system busting.

How can I refute something I never argued against? Why should I refute something I never argued against?

You're not seeing the point.

If Goku were capable of destroying multiple solar systems, he could stop, using a blast of his own, an attack nowhere near that level.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
So you think gohan's ki production comes from his arm...

I mean you'd have to, to say some shit like that. In a series where people have used hands, eyes, mouth, faces, and ****ing feet to shoot the stuff right. Right. RIGHT.

It's not what I think: the blasts lose half of their power if only one hand is use. Deal with it.



Originally posted by Gecko4lif
What part of this is supposed to make sense. Your statement isnt a coherent thought. So your saying it wasnt a large part of his power because he... could power up more... So... woudl he be unable to transform if it were? Besides that even in his not 100% 4th form it would still have to be under 1% of his power. Lets review the sequence of events.

1. Frieza attempts to blow up namek
2. Fails miserably
3. Upon seeing that he has failed he doesnt bother to try again

Why. How. It would literally be harder holding back 99.99% of your strength that using 99.98% of it. Freiza would have had to be actively trying to fail to blow up the planet. Which we know he wasnt.

It makes perfect sense as you seem to understand it just fine...but pretend to be dumb. Classic troll-tactic.

Here's why you fail, miserably, in forming any sort of thing that resembles logic:

Frieza casually destroyed Vegeta in his weakest from.

He didn't "full power it" because he used fractions of a percent his power. He said that "he missed". Don't know what that means but it would appear that the blast was enough to destroy the planet.


http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v27/c007/9.html



Also, you fail to make a semblence of logic because Frieza CAN control his power and how much he puts out. Even a child-Goku could control how strong his blasts are. It's quite stupid to argue that characters like Frieza and Goku cannot control how much power they put out. Also, Frieza was still at 50%: he powered up even more to his 100%. That's obvious that he barely used fractions of a percent of his power up to that point or else he would not be at "100%".

To address your 3 points:

1. He would have immediately succeeded if he aimed right, according to him. He'd know: he's a casual planet buster at many times weaker than his current form.
2. He succeeded because it blows up, in 5 minutes, anyway.
3. He doesn't need to: he succeeded. It was just delayed because he missed.



This is why you fail: you don't know what logic is.

And, actually, it is far harder to use 99.98% of your strength than using 99.99% of you strength. You do it every day and just don't realize it. You think a surgeon is using anymore than .01% of his maximum grip strength when gripping a scalpel? You think you are using something even close to .01% when you grab a feather? Hmmm?

With my grip strength alone, I can pick up well over 150lbs. That translates to 68040 grams. Yet, using the same motion, I can pick up a single paperclip, no problem. Which is easier? Squeezing my hands together to pick up 150lbs or squeezing my hands together to pick up a paperclip? Exactly. It's far harder to exert maximum force than exerting thousandths of your maximium force.



Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Numbers pulled out your ass. You have provided 0 justification.

I provided quite a lengthy justification a couple of years back. Too bad: you tried.



Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Holy shit thats hilarious.

What? How horrible your arguments are?

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Let me get this straight. Andriod 16 who used all his energy attempted to destroy cell at all cost only succeeded in destroying a island so he is solar system level?

What you just did here is called a 'strawman'. You didn't even attempt to represent my argument properly.


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
The same level that you say goku, gohan, and cell are. Despite being vastly weaker... You cant even keep this shit straight in your own head.

So, Cell, who had plenty of energy left over, but being able to power up enough to destroy a solar system, is somehow sooooo much more powerful than Android 16 that Android 16 has no hope of being a solar system buster? Do you even think your arguments through? Did it even set off some sort of "wait a minute...I probably should not argue against this point because my counter could be illogical"?

Of course it didn't register for you: you actually believe your own shit.


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Your bad at not being a wall biting mouth breather.

You kind of...you know...have to actually have a bit of a brain before you can use insults like that.


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
A Horse is bigger than a fly. YOU CAN NOT ARGUE THIS!


Excellent comeback: it perfectly refuted my argument. <---sarcasm

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Yes. I Have.

No you haven't.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Tell me. What is 1 ki. What does it represent. What is the speed of somewhat with 1 ki? What about destructive capability? Durability? Strength? You can not answer any of these quesitons becuase the answers dont exist. Ki is an arbitraty measuring system that is only supposed to make small children and retards go "zomg big numbers!!!111!eleventyone!!"

I have no idea: that unit of measure is never used in Dragonball.


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
You could replace ki with something ****ing stupid and it would still make the same about of sense.. " Oh my god im reading over NINE THOUSAND WIZARDS!"

You, apparently, are not aware of the calculations used to estimate the speed and power of characters at various power levels.


What does a powerlevel of 100-150 represent? It represents the ability of a person to move a supersonic speeds, casually blow up moons, be bullet proof, etc.


What does a power level of 9000 represent? It means someone can move at hypersonic speeds, blow up planets (anime only) casually endure nuke level blasts, etc.


Guess you didn't think your argument through, too well, did you? Of course you didn't


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
No it isnt

Yes it is because they (goku and perfect cell) were almost perfectly matched.



Originally posted by Gecko4lif
since you never explained how the **** they would be solar system busters in the first place

I don't need to: that was one of the givens.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v35/c007/4.html


16 should definitely be able to put out quite a bit of power to destroy a significant portion of a solar system.







Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Who taught this trog how to use a computer?

I assume you mean "troglodyte". But you probably did not know that.



Originally posted by Gecko4lif
No seriously where are the cameras. Am I being punked right now? This guy cant be real.

No matter how much dramatics you bring, you're still just a kid throwing a fit on a computer. Deal with being wrong, build a bridge, and get over it.

Tao was around 100-150 and was hypersonic actually, mach 14+ IIRC.

Im beginning to think this guy is actually retard.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Tao was around 100-150 and was hypersonic actually, mach 14+ IIRC.

Holy shizznit.


Forgot about that.


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Im beginning to think this guy is actually retard.

Indeed. Someone with my vocabulary, grasp of English grammar and spelling, and command of linguistic syntax, has to be a retard.

Despite the fact that "retard" is an antiquated label for 2 standard deviations from the cognitive ability of the population average, you must be right about me being a retard. It has nothing to do with your inability to actually use logic or form a decent argument.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Tao was around 100-150 and was hypersonic actually, mach 14+ IIRC.
7100 m/s actually.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Indeed. Someone with my vocabulary, grasp of English grammar and spelling, and command of linguistic syntax, has to be a retard.

Glad we agree

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Glad we agree

I guess you don't know about this?

Guess you dont know how to embed a link properly.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Guess you dont know how to embed a link properly.

You mean I did not intend to link you to the first page of Google Search results for "sarcasm?"

Quite an interesting perspective you have there.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You mean I did not intend to link you to the first page of Google Search results for "sarcasm?"

Quite an interesting perspective you have there.
One might be tempted to apply conventional insults to you, you are an Idiot, a shameless attention whore, an Ugly mother****er, a whiny *****, sleezeball, and so forth. But the fact of the matter is that those insults and the various colourful variations and combinations of which never the less give you too much credit. Even idiots can be put to good use, even if just as projects to cheer people up or sweaping the floor, an attention whore might be amusing in some way even if just by accident, plenty of ugly people are decent and respectable and better despire their asthetic deficiencies and Whiners can contribute too, even if they make a fuss over nothing and are annoying as **** and a sleezeball might have some good ideas despite his loathesome mannarism and attitudes. Not that these terms could not be applied to you, no, no. But because the people that those words described can be put to use in some small way to make this world a better place, or at least have some vaugely redeeming qualities. You, however do not. Never before has in the history of the universe have the forces of the nature come together to create such an abyssmally substandard human being such as yourself. What are you? You are a Waste. I don't pity you, i pity the tapeworms that are forced to endure dwelling in you horrid intestinal track. I pity the water atoms which have passed through the blatters of Great People, be they Enlightened rulers, scientists who push forward humanity, heroes who have saved the lives of thousands or simply pleasant, kind hearted and Generous folk and now must endure being stuck inside the cell tissues of your horrid legs.

The only possible way you could endevour to make this world a better place is if you went into a chemical waste dump with a sharp rock (not a knife, some object that was shaped by the hands and minds of mankind and the fruits of their efforts deserve some respect, which befouling it with your bodily juices is anything but) and stab yourself in the chest, letting your body degrade amongst corrosive industrial run-off so it may be elevated to its level and that the materials that the universe would have eighty more kilograms of free material to be turned into anything other than you.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
One might be tempted to apply conventional insults to you, you are an Idiot, a shameless attention whore, an Ugly mother****er, a whiny *****, sleezeball, and so forth. But the fact of the matter is that those insults and the various colourful variations and combinations of which never the less give you too much credit. Even idiots can be put to good use, even if just as projects to cheer people up or sweaping the floor, an attention whore might be amusing in some way even if just by accident, plenty of ugly people are decent and respectable and better despire their asthetic deficiencies and Whiners can contribute too, even if they make a fuss over nothing and are annoying as **** and a sleezeball might have some good ideas despite his loathesome mannarism and attitudes. Not that these terms could not be applied to you, no, no. But because the people that those words described can be put to use in some small way to make this world a better place, or at least have some vaugely redeeming qualities. You, however do not. Never before has in the history of the universe have the forces of the nature come together to create such an abyssmally substandard human being such as yourself. What are you? You are a Waste. I don't pity you, i pity the tapeworms that are forced to endure dwelling in you horrid intestinal track. I pity the water atoms which have passed through the blatters of Great People, be they Enlightened rulers, scientists who push forward humanity, heroes who have saved the lives of thousands or simply pleasant, kind hearted and Generous folk and now must endure being stuck inside the cell tissues of your horrid legs.

The only possible way you could endevour to make this world a better place is if you went into a chemical waste dump with a sharp rock (not a knife, some object that was shaped by the hands and minds of mankind and the fruits of their efforts deserve some respect, which befouling it with your bodily juices is anything but) and stab yourself in the chest, letting your body degrade amongst corrosive industrial run-off so it may be elevated to its level and that the materials that the universe would have eighty more kilograms of free material to be turned into anything other than you.


I knew something was off when I read some of this. It was written much better than you're capable of writing (despite the fact that it is mediocre, at best, at accomplishing what it intends to do). So I just searched some "string literals" and I found that you are not the original author.


http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/mock-me.219838/




Nice try, good sir.



Try again?

You aren't worth the creative energy. It's easier to ctrl+v than to bother with anything more intricate than calling you a cock mangler.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
You aren't worth the creative energy. It's easier to ctrl+v than to bother with anything more intricate than calling you a cock mangler.

Nice to know that you conceded the argument. But you never had a choice but to concede because you contradicted on panel evidence.

This is probably why you should not argue against on-panel evidence: you'll usually be wrong.


Now, this is not to say that you cannot ever argue against on-panel evidence: sometimes, you can point out plotholes or find deeper meanings by contradicting on panel evidence.

broly could easily destroy a solar system and was probably broly<cell and cell<ssj2 so a ssj2 could easily destroy a few galaxies ssj3>>>>ssj2 so there goes a few hundred galaxies and a ssj3 can use dimensional scream so let say a ssj3 with kaioken(does exist) would be enough to make a dimension collapse which would lead to the destruction of all the other dimensions , also not to mention goku's endless amount of super attacks like kamehameha spirit bomb, oozaru punch , and dragon fist he probably was strong enough to take on baby with his universal spirit bomb

(ssj4 goku< ssj vegito)

1. Broly is non canon. What he can or cannot do means nothing.

2. Super Kaioken is non canon.

3. Dimensional scream making the universe collapse is non canon.

4. DragonBall GT is non canon.



By powerscaling the figures, even GT's SS4 Goku falls short of a min Star busting of 1.6e40 J;
GT SS1Goku = Buu = Large planet busting of 1e38
SS3 is 8x stronger than SS1 = 8e38
At the very best we can say that SS4 is 10x stronger than SS3 given thats the Oozaru increase = 1.6e39, one tenth minimum star busting.

So from generous scaling with info we sorta know, the only character in all of DB and GT that can be classed as a Star buster is possibly SS4Gogeta.

Where did you get the numbers for SSJ3?

http://www.kanzentai.com/guide/bp/seg-ssj2.png

"Super Saiyan 2 is twice as strong as regular Super Saiyan, and Super Saiyan 3 is four times as strong as Super Saiyan 2."


Unless you meant the 8e38, which comes from 8x Buu's power for GT SS3.

No, you were right the first time. Retard.