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Ok i just saw The Dark Knight Rises and i can't decide if i liked Bane as a villian better than The Joker in The Dark Knight.

So i pose this question to you:

1 Who had the better plan
2 Who executed their plan better
3 Who caused Batman more pain (both physical and emotional)
4 Who was overall a better villain
5 Who was a better fit to counter Batman
6 And finally who was more closely true to their comic book counterparts?

1. Bane
2. Bane
3. Joker probably
4. Bane was more effective, but I preferred the Joker
5. Don't know
6. Depends, the Joker is very similar to the one in the Killing Joke but not to many other incarnations.

Originally posted by ares834
1. Bane
2. Bane
3. Joker probably
4. Bane was more effective, but I preferred the Joker
5. Don't know
6. Depends, the Joker is very similar to the one in the Killing Joke but not to many other incarnations.

bane

bane

bane

toss up

toss up

joker, but some of bane from the comics is also bane from the film

You think Bane caused Bats more pain? Joker killed Rachel leaving Bruce as a husk of the man he once was. He basically took away the reason for Batman to live. By contrast, Bane gave him back a reason to live.

Originally posted by ares834
You think Bane caused Bats more pain? Joker killed Rachel leaving Bruce as a husk of the man he once was. He basically took away the reason for Batman to live. By contrast, Bane gave him back a reason to live.

Joker was emotional and mental while Bane was physical, mental and emotional abuse

Yeah, they made Bane highly effective.


Though I think the Joker was the better counter. Just because he's the Joker.

The way i see it is Joker was a better counter to Bats because he's basically the exact opposite of Batman in just about every way.

Bane was very similar to Batman just stronger more durable and more ruthless. He was basically what Batman could become if he were willing to kill imo

The rest im not so sure of

I don't want to spoil anything for people so spoilers below




The Joker IMO. Bane was a sub par villain imo. He was only a threat because he was a good fighter. Nothing lead me to believe that he was a mastermind planer as it seemed he was getting his orders from and the plans were created by Talia.

Now that i think of it Bane was just a glorified henchmen wasn't he? Granted he kicked Batman's ass but he was still only #2.

Joker took no orders

Originally posted by juggerman
Now that i think of it Bane was just a glorified henchmen wasn't he? Granted he kicked Batman's ass but he was still only #2.

Joker took no orders

everybody seems to be forgetting that lol

EDIT: they made bane seem like the villain of the story so not to give away the twist but he ended up getting his orders from a higher up. He was smart enough to fallow the plan the way it was need to be fallowed but there was no evidence he was as brilliant as some people think. His role IMO was only as big as The Scarecrow in begins.

I think people are greatly undermining Bane's role in the movie.

Yes, he was working with Talia but I never got the feeling he was her henchman. Rather, they seemed to be equals. Talia focused on the economic aspects by maneuvering Wayne Enterprises into creating the Nuclear device. Meanwhile, it was to Bane that fell the military takeover of Gotham.

Originally posted by ares834
I think people are greatly undermining Bane's role in the movie.

Yes, he was working with Talia but I never got the feeling he was her henchman. Rather, they seemed to be equals. Talia focused on the economic aspects by maneuvering Wayne Enterprises into creating the Nuclear device. Meanwhile, it was to Bane that fell the military takeover of Gotham.

I can respect that but I felt through the whole movie that

Bane was Talias bodyguard. My feeling was reinforced once Talia revealed she had the detonator and she admitted that she was the one that decided to fulfill her fathers plan to destroy Gotham. I took it as she devised the plans and bane fallowed them. Even in the plane when bane says "no brother one of us must stay behind" I didn't feel he was fallowing banes orders as much as he was doing it for the cause. I mean little things like escaping on the motor bikes at the stock exchange was his idea but it seemed to me that Talia laid out the actual big picture plans. Maybe Im undersold on him but I feel people are oversold on him.

Originally posted by ares834
I think people are greatly undermining Bane's role in the movie.

Yes, he was working with Talia but I never got the feeling he was her henchman. Rather, they seemed to be equals. Talia focused on the economic aspects by maneuvering Wayne Enterprises into creating the Nuclear device. Meanwhile, it was to Bane that fell the military takeover of Gotham.

I got that feeling to

I think it depends on if you've read the comic how you view Bane in the movie.

i don't think we should need to use spoiler tags in a vs thread. what the hell are you doing in a versus thread if you haven't seen the movie the character is from.

Originally posted by Mindset
I think it depends on if you've read the comic how you view Bane in the movie.

Exactly. Plus Bane was presented as incredibly smart and a master tactician in the film as we see when he escapes from the Stock Exchange and how he realizes that one CIA agent isn't killing his men.

Plus he doesn't follow Talia's orders all the time as he tries to kill Batman even when Talia asks Bane to not kill him.

1.Joker
2.Joker
3.Joker
4.Bane
5.Bane

Originally posted by juggerman
Ok i just saw The Dark Knight Rises and i can't decide if i liked Bane as a villian better than The Joker in The Dark Knight.

So i pose this question to you:

1 Who had the better plan
2 Who executed their plan better
3 Who caused Batman more pain (both physical and emotional)
4 Who was overall a better villain
5 Who was a better fit to counter Batman
6 And finally who was more closely true to their comic book counterparts?

Bane

Bane

Joker

Toss up for me. I prefer Bane more though

Probably the Joker.

As for Bane just being a henchman. My take on it, you may disagree but this is what I'm going with Dang it because I like it better , is that is that Talia was kind of like the crowned figure head but Bane was the person doing all the major planning and fighting. Like Talia was like this what I want to do than it was up to Bane to get the job done because he was shown to be smart, effective, and good at this stuff.

Originally posted by Mindset
I think it depends on if you've read the comic how you view Bane in the movie.


I have all of Bane's comics.. his appearance in the dark knight rises is way better than the 'roid bane from Batman and Robin..

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
I have all of Bane's comics.. his appearance in the dark knight rises is way better than the 'roid bane from Batman and Robin.. I'm not sure what that has to do with my post.

Originally posted by juggerman
Ok i just saw The Dark Knight Rises and i can't decide if i liked Bane as a villian better than The Joker in The Dark Knight.

So i pose this question to you:

1 Who had the better plan
2 Who executed their plan better
3 Who caused Batman more pain (both physical and emotional)
4 Who was overall a better villain
5 Who was a better fit to counter Batman
6 And finally who was more closely true to their comic book counterparts?

1.) Bane
2.) Bane
3.) Bane
4.) Joker
5.) Bane
6.) I dunno, Joker I guess

1 Who had the better plan

The Joker.

2 Who executed their plan better

The Joker, although he probably doesn't care if any of his plans work as long as they cause SOME mayhem.

3 Who caused Batman more pain (both physical and emotional)

The Joker kept him out of the game for eight years. I'd say him. I simply don't accept the ending that Batman just went to Italy and retired. He'll return eventually, with a new face.

4 Who was overall a better villain

I liked both just fine. The Joker is more famous and acclaimed, but that doesn't really matter. The Joker is more famous simply because he's more "out there" than Bane. It's like comparing a really famous man about town Hollywood actor vs a more reserved stage actor.

5 Who was a better fit to counter Batman

Both have their strengths and weaknesses. They're about the same.

6 And finally who was more closely true to their comic book counterparts?

The Joker. And I think Movie Bane is a huge improvement over Comic Bane.

Kind of an old thread, but I just saw TDKR last night and I feel like commenting. This is just my opinion, so don't flame me for it lol.

1. The Joker had the better plan simply because he devised it himself and wasn't executing someone else's plan like Bane was.

2. Bane pretty much took over Gotham. However, it is fair to point out that the Joker did essentially destroy Gotham's two biggest heroes (Dent and Batman obviously). He turned Dent into a murderous psychopath with nothing to live for, and destroyed Batman's reputation by pretty much forcing him to take the blame for what Harvey Dent did, and turned Bruce Wayne into a recluse. He took the one thing that both of these heroes were living for. He left Gotham without a guardian, pretty much.

3. The Joker easily. He killed Batman's one true love and reduced him to a recluse and a mentally and physically broken man who didn't see much point in living life.

4. That's a matter of opinion. I liked both but the Joker has always been my favorite villain.

5. Bane was obviously more capable of physically defeating Batman, but he never could break his spirit like the Joker did.

6. No idea honestly, I don't read comic books.

Ah forgot about this one

Bane, hard.

That's just the thing. Bane has plans and weaknesses. THe Joker likes to turn plans on themselves. THe Joker has the edge in the SUPER VILLIAN department. However Bane would slap the joker silly in a fist fight. But I don't think the Joker would care much.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
That's just the thing. Bane has plans and weaknesses. THe Joker likes to turn plans on themselves. THe Joker has the edge in the SUPER VILLIAN department. However Bane would slap the joker silly in a fist fight. But I don't think the Joker would care much. Joker would be scared of Bane.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Joker would be scared of Bane.

Doubtful. He wasn't scared of Dent with a gun when he had ever reason to kill him

Originally posted by juggerman
Doubtful. He wasn't scared of Dent with a gun when he had ever reason to kill him Joker was an idiot I agree. Bane would still intimidate him. On another level than Joker. He took over the city and beat Batmans ass.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Joker was an idiot I agree. Bane would still intimidate him. On another level than Joker. He took over the city and beat Batmans ass.

Bane would not scare Joker at all. Nothing does. He doesn't fear pain or death. He was giggling like a school girl when Bats tossed him off a building and egged Bats on to run him down. Bane could break him yes, but Bane would never get Joker to fear him

Originally posted by juggerman
Bane would not scare Joker at all. Nothing does. He doesn't fear pain or death. He was giggling like a school girl when Bats tossed him off a building and egged Bats on to run him down. Bane could break him yes, but Bane would never get Joker to fear him Yes, he would. Joker is nuts but is not without fear. Bane would scare the girlie man.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, he would. Joker is nuts but is not without fear. Bane would scare the girlie man.

How do you figure he's not without fear? Nothing scared him not even his own death. Bane has nothing to threaten him with. He laughed at pain and death

Originally posted by juggerman
How do you figure he's not without fear? Nothing scared him not even his own death. Bane has nothing to threaten him with. He laughed at pain and death Dying did not scare him but order does. He's a being of chaos. Think, twink.

You are mine again. I own you now again.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Dying did not scare him but order does. He's a being of chaos. Think, twink.

You are mine again. I own you now again.

Order scared him? Nope try again.

right

Originally posted by juggerman
Order scared him? Nope try again.

right Yes, he was a being of chaos. Order scares him. Think.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, he was a being of chaos. Order scares him. Think.

Order doesn't scare him. Bane caused chaos anyway so Bane is not to be feared regardless

Originally posted by quanchi112
Dying did not scare him but order does. He's a being of chaos. Think, twink.

You are mine again. I own you now again.

Not really. Even when the people of Gotham 'proved him wrong' he basically shrugged it off. He'd likely just laugh at Bane and tell him he's trying too hard.

Originally posted by juggerman
Order doesn't scare him. Bane caused chaos anyway so Bane is not to be feared regardless Bane brought a clear order to Gotham. Bane would bring order to Joker.

League of Shadows>>>Joker.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not really. Even when the people of Gotham 'proved him wrong' he basically shrugged it off. He'd likely just laugh at Bane and tell him he's trying too hard. Nope. They don't bring the order Bane does.

No, he'd be intimidated by Bane. Joker was the weakest villain.

Lol, 'order'? He had criminals police the city, the cops locked up and a lunatic handing out death penalties. Joker would have laughed his ass off at Bane's 'order'. That kind of thing would tickle him pink.

The Joker is an agent of chaos which he even says so himself in the movie.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Bane brought a clear order to Gotham. Bane would bring order to Joker.

League of Shadows>>>Joker.

In a fight Bane clearly wins. But this isn't a fight. Joker would not fear Bane as others did either way

And?

Originally posted by juggerman
In a fight Bane clearly wins. But this isn't a fight. Joker would not fear Bane as others did either way

And? As an agent of chaos he feats order. It is the opposite. Bane whoops him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol, 'order'? He had criminals police the city, the cops locked up and a lunatic handing out death penalties. Joker would have laughed his ass off at Bane's 'order'. That kind of thing would tickle him pink. He stated he was an agent of chaos. Undeniable. Bane provided order to the corrupt Gotham.

No, he would fear it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
As an agent of chaos he feats order. It is the opposite. Bane whoops him.

Not everyone fears their opposite. Bane created no order anyway

If order terrified him then the act of going to a prison would freak him out, he wouldn't be laughing the whole time.

Originally posted by juggerman
Not everyone fears their opposite. Bane created no order anyway So despite it being the exact opposite he'd be ok with it ? Seriously ?

Originally posted by BloodRain
If order terrified him then the act of going to a prison would freak him out, he wouldn't be laughing the whole time. He knew he was going to get out and chaos would ensue. Different.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So despite it being the exact opposite he'd be ok with it ? Seriously ?

I never said he be "ok with it" but he wouldn't fear it either. He didn't fear the order he was trying to destroy in TDK

Originally posted by quanchi112
He knew he was going to get out and chaos would ensue. Different.
Like 8 years later? O.o Besides he was faced with forced order being in prison and order coming back to Gotham.. how would Bane's 'order' change that.

And when did he ever show fear? :T

Originally posted by juggerman
I never said he be "ok with it" but he wouldn't fear it either. He didn't fear the order he was trying to destroy in TDK Different kind of order. It was soft. He'd fear Bane.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Like 8 years later? O.o Besides he was faced with forced order being in prison and order coming back to Gotham.. how would Bane's 'order' change that.

And when did he ever show fear? :T Are you saying he is without fear ? Human beings experience fear. Quit saying silly things.

Joker did not fear when he allowed them to take him to jail. He was in control the entire time.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Different kind of order. It was soft. He'd fear Bane.

Bane never showed any ability to create more order than Gotham had when Joker showed up. He came around and created more chaos. Joker would probably end up killing Bane

Originally posted by quanchi112
Are you saying he is without fear ? Human beings experience fear. Quit saying silly things.

Joker did not fear when he allowed them to take him to jail. He was in control the entire time.

Actually not all humans would and not to high degrees, especially when we're talking about psychopaths. I believe there are even studies about this. This is a character who would shrug off failed plans and laugh in the face of captivity and his own death.

More to the point, why is Joker afraid of order? Order was already at its peak in Gotham right before TDK, and did he show fear from this? No, he rose his crazy ass up and threw chaos back in the mix. He doesn't fear order, he attacks it.

Originally posted by juggerman
Bane never showed any ability to create more order than Gotham had when Joker showed up. He came around and created more chaos. Joker would probably end up killing Bane He created order. He was in complete control. Order.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Actually not all humans would and not to high degrees, especially when we're talking about psychopaths. I believe there are even studies about this. This is a character who would shrug off failed plans and laugh in the face of captivity and his own death.

More to the point, why is Joker afraid of order? Order was already at its peak in Gotham right before TDK, and did he show fear from this? No, he rose his crazy ass up and threw chaos back in the mix. He doesn't fear order, he attacks it. Speculation.


He's never seen someone enforce order like Bane has. Bane would sonn him. Joker is a joke.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He created order. He was in complete control. Order.

It wasn't as we see an uprising in the making for months. And he wasn't since they were fighting back

Originally posted by quanchi112
Speculation.

He's never seen someone enforce order like Bane has. Bane would sonn him. Joker is a joke.

Facts :T And a proven one with the Joker. He doesn't fear loss. He doesn't fear capture from the law. He doesn't fear death.

Why? Explain your points. Can you show me Joker be done in by order, or is this another guess?

Originally posted by juggerman
It wasn't as we see an uprising in the making for months. And he wasn't since they were fighting back He created order. Joker would shit his pants. Bane is on another level and physically will just kill him.

Originally posted by juggerman
Ok i just saw The Dark Knight Rises and i can't decide if i liked Bane as a villian better than The Joker in The Dark Knight.

So i pose this question to you:

1 Who had the better plan
2 Who executed their plan better
3 Who caused Batman more pain (both physical and emotional)
4 Who was overall a better villain
5 Who was a better fit to counter Batman
6 And finally who was more closely true to their comic book counterparts?

1. Bane.
2. Bane.
3. Bane. (Joker's killing of Rachel haunted him for 8 years, but since you incldued physical pain then that tips it in Bane's favor because he emotionally and physically tortured the Dark Knight)
4. Bane was a better villain. Heath had the better performance though.
5. Bane. Obviously.
6. Joker. Bane was great until he was reduced to Thalia's dog.

1. Joker, Bane's "plan" was actually Talias.
2. Talia/Bane, almost turned Gotham to ashes.
3. Joker, Waynes body is almost broken by TDKR, Joker turned the city against him (mostly).
4. Joker, mainly personality and psychologically.
5. Joker, one man against pure chaos = better story.
6. Joker, Bane was altered big time to fit the realism.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Facts :T And a proven one with the Joker. He doesn't fear loss. He doesn't fear capture from the law. He doesn't fear death.

Why? Explain your points. Can you show me Joker be done in by order, or is this another guess? He feared order. He is directly opposed to it.


I can't force you to see reason. How I have tried before.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He feared order. He is directly opposed to it.


I can't force you to see reason. How I have tried before.
When did he show this fear?

Stating your inability to debate a point? Hey thats fine by me.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He created order. Joker would shit his pants. Bane is on another level and physically will just kill him.

Bane liked to handle things/people h2h. Joker could just shoot him

Anyway let's not derail any longer. Let's stay on topic

Originally posted by BloodRain
When did he show this fear?

Stating your inability to debate a point? Hey thats fine by me. If you think he is beyond fear then prove it. He never met Bane so its completely theoretical.

Originally posted by juggerman
Bane liked to handle things/people h2h. Joker could just shoot him

Anyway let's not derail any longer. Let's stay on topic Bane doesn't just charge into battle with his men.

Bane is greater than Joker. You already admitted as much.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If you think he is beyond fear then prove it. He never met Bane so its completely theoretical.
Yeah, see you were the one who first brought up Joker being scared of order as your point.. so I assume this is something you can prove.

Do so.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Yeah, see you were the one who first brought up Joker being scared of order as your point.. so I assume this is something you can prove.

Do so. its theoretical like all these matchups who have never met.

Originally posted by quanchi112
its theoretical like all these matchups who have never met. Yeah, no. If you think Joker would fall to fear due to 'order', not just Bane himself, then you'd have to prove it or we have nothing.

If you ask me about Joker's fear I can point to scenes where he laughs in the face of extreme danger to prove that if this psychopath has fear is small and hard to come by.





Forgot to to this:

1. Bane. Joker was in it for the lulz
2. Bane but not by much. Small gap because I believe a large part of Bane's success was due to Batman's condition, that a TDK Batman would have sorted things out much sooner.
3. Joker by a bit. Death of his squeeze, corruption and death of Dent, having the city turn against him Vs beating and back breaking and mentally defeated.
4. Not sure.. As said with Bane's success coming from Bats condition.
5. Joker. With the whole opposites thing, tested him and got him to test his code.
6. Joker.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Bane doesn't just charge into battle with his men.

Bane is greater than Joker. You already admitted as much.

Negative stay on topic

The Joker is a far better villain than Bane. And I loved Bane, but Bane (and Talia) were trying to destroy Gotham just to phuck with Bruce for killing Ras. The Joker actually represented and personified the abstract concept of chaos and came very close to proving it.

Bane was purely a physical threat only going after Bruce for petty revenge. And not even his own revenge.

Joker on the other hand was Batmans complete antithesis and was a threat to his very soul and sense of morality. The worst thing about him was that he was almost right, and arguably won in the end. As a villain he was truly on another level when compared to Bane, engaging Batman on the physical, logical, spiritual, moral and emotional levels all at once.

The Joker would screw things up big time for Bane. Bane would need to kill the Joker instantly to win. The problem would be the Joker would have bomb or something on him. Lets remember the grenade jacket. I honestly think the Joker win. Except in a fist fight. Bane would kill Joker, and the Joker would die happy because someone was this corrupt and evil.

This isn't a fight between Joker and Bane. Read the OP