Superman (current) vs. Goku

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dvampire
I think Superman would win.

Here's why:

Supes shoots a beam of low-intensity Heat Vision at the Moon. People in the watch tower was blinded except for Plastic Man cause sense he had shades on. The Moon is very far from Earth, this shows the range Supes Heat Vision has.
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9708/supermansheatvision24vv.jpg

Goku can be blind by solar flare.

In this pic it shows that Supes Heat Vision stated by them, "his vision is off the charts by any standard scientific measures". They can measure how hot a star is, but they cannot measure the temp of Supermans Heat Vision.
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/863/supermansheatvision30nk.jpg

Goku's ki blasts can't reach the limits of the Sun.

Here's Superman reading at high speeds (something Goku or any of the DBZ/GT characters ever done).

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/4955/superman1451ba.jpg

Goku can't comprehend multiple languages at once, Superman can. Goku's intellegence is that of a normal human, and he can't comprehend multiple people talking at once.

Superman fighting at high speeds.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9558/supermanandmongul8pr.jpg

The suit actually increases Mongul's speed and power. Superman held back.

Superman has lifted moutains before and if Goku never done it before or something similar, he can't be Superman's equal.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/468/eradscrazy7mr.jpg/

Superman's durability has been surviving explosions of stars, which are hotter than ki blasts and the impact is much greater.

Superman taking a blast equal to a million nuclear blasts.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/supesnuke.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/supesnuke2.jpg

Goku can't survive the tempatures of lava.

Zack Fair
Current Superman gets stomped hard. BTW the version you're discussing is not the current one.

dvampire
Current Superman is this Superman, just with his powers restored.

AuraAngel
Originally posted by dvampire
Here's Superman reading at high speeds (something Goku or any of the DBZ/GT characters ever done).

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/4955/superman1451ba.jpg

Goku can't comprehend multiple languages at once, Superman can. Goku's intellegence is that of a normal human, and he can't comprehend multiple people talking at once.


....

**** me I had no idea Supes possessed such a vast amount of power over the DBZ cast. Truly he is a God among them.

(Seriously? I know dick about Superman but you're seriously bringing up really fast reading and language comprehension?)

Gecko4lif
Current superman is pretty weak sauce

Zack Fair
Originally posted by AuraAngel
....

**** me I had no idea Supes possessed such a vast amount of power over the DBZ cast. Truly he is a God among them.

(Seriously? I know dick about Superman but you're seriously bringing up really fast reading and language comprehension?)

Probably in an attempt to show how Superman's thought process is above the DBZ cast.

BloodRain
Originally posted by AuraAngel
....

**** me I had no idea Supes possessed such a vast amount of power over the DBZ cast. Truly he is a God among them.

(Seriously? I know dick about Superman but you're seriously bringing up really fast reading and language comprehension?)

http://superdickery.com/images/stories/oneshot/1007supermathematics1iw.jpghttp://superdickery.com/images/stories/stupor/1506superweaving4go.jpghttp://superdickery.com/images/stories/stupor/1031perrywhite1ub.jpghttp://superdickery.com/images/stories/stupor/ac22404superlandscaping0jl.jpghttp://superdickery.com/images/stories/stupor/superhunch.jpg




> DragonBall. parm_k-monster

(Even if his math is wrong in the first panel)

AuraAngel
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Probably in an attempt to show how Superman's thought process is above the DBZ cast.

Isn't Supes so above the DBZ world from a pure physical standpoint that intelligence really isn't a factor?

Zack Fair
Originally posted by BloodRain
http://superdickery.com/images/stories/oneshot/1007supermathematics1iw.jpghttp://superdickery.com/images/stories/stupor/1506superweaving4go.jpghttp://superdickery.com/images/stories/stupor/1031perrywhite1ub.jpghttp://superdickery.com/images/stories/stupor/ac22404superlandscaping0jl.jpghttp://superdickery.com/images/stories/stupor/superhunch.jpg




> DragonBall. parm_k-monster

(Even if his math is wrong in the first panel)

crylaugh Good Ole PC Supes.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Isn't Supes so above the DBZ world from a pure physical standpoint that intelligence really isn't a factor?

Maybe, but it doesn't hurt to show Superman's enhanced thought process. People tend to think he is just a brute, when he is not. He just tends to get lazy and punch stuff.

AuraAngel
Nah, dun think Supes is a brute. Boring as **** but not a brute.

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by Zack Fair

Maybe, but it doesn't hurt to show Superman's enhanced thought process. People tend to think he is just a brute, when he is not. He just tends to get lazy and punch stuff.

To the point where they focus on his physical might and ignore his intelligence in media.

BloodRain
Doesn't thought process fall into the same category as reaction time? I'm pretty sure if your eyes and mind can follow a bullet you can probably read/think faster than normal.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by BloodRain
Doesn't thought process fall into the same category as reaction time? I'm pretty sure if your eyes and mind can follow a bullet you can probably read/think faster than normal. Yep.

AuraAngel
Originally posted by BloodRain
Doesn't thought process fall into the same category as reaction time? I'm pretty sure if your eyes and mind can follow a bullet you can probably read/think faster than normal.

Let's be honest: Superman is more than likely to have better feats to show off his reacting abilities than reading fast. stick out tongue

Nephthys
Theres one that I know where he speeds up his reactions so he can have a conversation with the Flash while everyone around him is frozen.

Harbinger
Goku probably takes Current Supes, though I'm sure that'll change with time.

dvampire
Originally posted by Harbinger
Goku probably takes Current Supes, though I'm sure that'll change with time.

You don't have an answer because Goku can't compare.

Classic NES
Originally posted by dvampire
Current Superman is this Superman, just with his powers restored.

The entire universe was rebooted after FP, though. I haven't seen him reach his pre-FP as of yet.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by Classic NES
The entire universe was rebooted after FP, though. I haven't seen him reach his pre-FP as of yet. Pretty much. He lacks feats, but it is only a matter of time before he starts doing crazy shit.

dvampire
Superman has all the necessary feats in his current form, since his current form is stronger than his past feats I just posted, DC didn't reboot Superman. And the only chance Goku have any hope of winning is to actually have feats equal or greater to show. Otherwise it's just a lie in the persons own conscious that Goku is inferior to Superman because they neglect to put scans to match Supermans.

It'll just be a rejection of Superman being superior to Goku. A lie.

Bentley
Not sure what are current's Superman's best feats, which is, as usual, all that matters in this kind of match.

Classic NES
Originally posted by dvampire
DC didn't reboot Superman.


Uh, Yes, they did.

Damborgson
Goku better ne seeiois from the start. Black hair goku is such a wimp in phgsical stats even dcnu supes haa a good chance at putting a hole in him.

nij-ayias
Originally posted by dvampire
Superman has all the necessary feats in his current form, since his current form is stronger than his past feats I just posted, DC didn't reboot Superman. And the only chance Goku have any hope of winning is to actually have feats equal or greater to show. Otherwise it's just a lie in the persons own conscious that Goku is inferior to Superman because they neglect to put scans to match Supermans.

It'll just be a rejection of Superman being superior to Goku. A lie.

Feats are useless if you can't apply it in the fight. You can move any planets you want but what's the point if you can't crack an egg with your fist, LOL.

Saying that, I'll put my money on a World Champion Boxer than a Champion Weight Lifter.

dvampire
But since Superman actually applied them in combat that makes them valuble to use. Unless you want Superman to fight without doing anything, that will definitely give Goku an advantage to win the fight.

nij-ayias
Originally posted by dvampire
But since Superman actually applied them in combat that makes them valuble to use. Unless you want Superman to fight without doing anything, that will definitely give Goku an advantage to win the fight.

No, what I'm saying is if we compare their hitting power, it seems DBZ character hits harder and more destructive but when it comes to moving/lifting/pressing, Superman is superior.

OK, since you said Superman can applied them, then how come Superman Prime couldn't blow up Earth with a single punch but needs fly to it's core just to blow it up, LOL. Do you think that impresses me?

Superman Prime is superior and mature version of Superboy Prime who moved planet to another galaxy. If it's equal, that moving strength is enough to blow up Earth with a single punch, but he can't.

Pressing/Lifting/Moving does not equate to punching.

Like Weight Lifter does not equate to boxer.

And Bradley or Mayweather could lift more than Pacquiao can but Pacquiao punches harder, LOL.

Classic NES
I don't see what DCnU supes can do here. I'm behind on new 52, but still. Until I see something substantial I'm going to have to give it to Goku.

dvampire
Originally posted by nij-ayias
No, what I'm saying is if we compare their hitting power, it seems DBZ character hits harder and more destructive but when it comes to moving/lifting/pressing, Superman is superior.

OK, since you said Superman can applied them, then how come Superman Prime couldn't blow up Earth with a single punch but needs fly to it's core just to blow it up, LOL. Do you think that impresses me?

Superman Prime is superior and mature version of Superboy Prime who moved planet to another galaxy. If it's equal, that moving strength is enough to blow up Earth with a single punch, but he can't.

Pressing/Lifting/Moving does not equate to punching.

Like Weight Lifter does not equate to boxer.

And Bradley or Mayweather could lift more than Pacquiao can but Pacquiao punches harder, LOL.

Superman can puch villians across country, threw the planet, and even to the moon. There's no comparison when it comes to strength. Lets keep it at strength then, with both of us agreeing to post scans displaying their strength. Because Superman has already won the strength battle with the very first strength scan I posted. Go back to the first strength scan and counter it with a feat of your own in favor of Goku. If you can't, then Superman wins and you're just wasting time (llying) knowing that Goku is inferior, because you don't post feats of Goku to support you claim, which means you have doubt in Goku's ability to win anyways.

nij-ayias
Originally posted by dvampire
Superman can puch villians across country, threw the planet, and even to the moon. There's no comparison when it comes to strength. Lets keep it at strength then, with both of us agreeing to post scans displaying their strength. Because Superman has already won the strength battle with the very first strength scan I posted. Go back to the first strength scan and counter it with a feat of your own in favor of Goku. If you can't, then Superman wins and you're just wasting time (llying) knowing that Goku is inferior, because you don't post feats of Goku to support you claim, which means you have doubt in Goku's ability to win anyways.

No, overall strength, Supes always win.

But I'm saying is who hits harder and more destructively.

Punching to the moon, across the country and planet does not equate to hitting harder. It's more of a pushing power.

Strongest Version of Supes will win. But the Typical Supes that's getting hit and knocked down by metahumans, my opinion is no.

Do you remember Gotenks slapping Buu to the ground, the giant crater he created, I don't see any Typical/Modern Version of Supes did that.

NemeBro
Originally posted by nij-ayias
No, what I'm saying is if we compare their hitting power, it seems DBZ character hits harder and more destructive but when it comes to moving/lifting/pressing, Superman is superior.

OK, since you said Superman can applied them, then how come Superman Prime couldn't blow up Earth with a single punch but needs fly to it's core just to blow it up, LOL. Do you think that impresses me?

Superman Prime is superior and mature version of Superboy Prime who moved planet to another galaxy. If it's equal, that moving strength is enough to blow up Earth with a single punch, but he can't.

Pressing/Lifting/Moving does not equate to punching.

Like Weight Lifter does not equate to boxer.

And Bradley or Mayweather could lift more than Pacquiao can but Pacquiao punches harder, LOL. I like how you didn't actually provide a single DBZ punching feat and just tried to downplay Superman's.

Are you by chance, a moron?

nij-ayias
Originally posted by NemeBro
I like how you didn't actually provide a single DBZ punching feat and just tried to downplay Superman's.

Are you by chance, a moron?

I'm not downplaying it, read above.

Zack Fair
Superman is a real hero and tries to avoid collateral damage as much as possible. Goku on the other hand shows off his Super Saiyan 3 and probably causes death to dozens of people.

The downplaying of Superman is funny.

I agree with damborgson. New DCU Superman could probably take black hair Goku.

nij-ayias
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Superman is a real hero, unlike Goku, and tries to avoid collateral damage as much as possible. Goku on the other hand shows off his Super Saiyan 3 and probably causes death to dozens of people throughout the world.

laughing

Zack Fair
It wasn't funny to that one bystander who got crushed by a giant piece of glass sad

nij-ayias
Originally posted by Zack Fair
It wasn't funny to that one bystander who got crushed by a giant piece of glass sad

Happy Dance

dvampire
Glass wall actually. Have a better indication?

cdtm
When Gotenks compressed Super Buu into a ball and volley'd him to the ground, that made a big crater. A really big one, like a mini grand canyon.

Implies some serious striking power, if not lifting power. And Danny Rand, the Iron Fist, proves you don't need to be strong, to hit hard.

Also, that assassin (Tao Pie Pie?) was tossing trees and stone pillers across entire cities, and possibly further, so they're probably somewhere between the "Way stronger than Luke Cage", and "Stronger than Thing (As the throwing feats are from a much weaker Z character)/Weaker than Superman" range...

cdtm
So, what's the current consensus on top tier DBZ speed?

Half light? Light? Upper speed of sound?

Zack Fair
i dunno. i don't think any of them is anywhere near lightspeed. Goku has the whole instant transmission ability though.

Astner
Doesn't the current version of Superman has a fancy collar?

NemeBro
Originally posted by cdtm
So, what's the current consensus on top tier DBZ speed?

Half light? Light? Upper speed of sound? Mach 1,000+ in flight IIRC (For anyone SSJ Gotenks level or higher), and mach 28,000+ in reaction-time for the top tiers (Basically Mystic Gohan and up).

dvampire
That's a superficial measure of speed, which means it's not possible unless the creator actually stated it. It's wishful thinking.

NemeBro
Shut the **** up.

juggerman
laughing dvampire can be annoying

carver9
Originally posted by nij-ayias
No, overall strength, Supes always win.

But I'm saying is who hits harder and more destructively.

Punching to the moon, across the country and planet does not equate to hitting harder. It's more of a pushing power.

Strongest Version of Supes will win. But the Typical Supes that's getting hit and knocked down by metahumans, my opinion is no.

Do you remember Gotenks slapping Buu to the ground, the giant crater he created, I don't see any Typical/Modern Version of Supes did that.

People just don't realize what this post mean. Lifting fts is all nice and Dandy but in a battle, punching power is far more impressive and Superman doesn't have anything close to the type of punching power DBZ characters have. Black hair Goku stomps pre reboot AND current Supes as well.

carver9
By the way, it was proven some time back that black hair Goku is above light speed.

dvampire
Superman has to very leathal attacks, one being able to freeze you to death. There's no coming back and Goku can't regenerate dead cells, which is what will happen if he freezes Goku. Fight is over.

carver9
Lol...WTF

Damborgson
Originally posted by dvampire
Superman has to very leathal attacks, one being able to freeze you to death. There's no coming back and Goku can't regenerate dead cells, which is what will happen if he freezes Goku. Fight is over.

It's comic though dude. Instead of causing cellular death, it makes a cool body shaped outer layer of ice that can be easily broken :P

dadudemon
Originally posted by NemeBro
Mach 1,000+ in flight IIRC (For anyone SSJ Gotenks level or higher), and mach 28,000+ in reaction-time for the top tiers (Basically Mystic Gohan and up).

Where are these numbers coming from and how were they calculated?

NemeBro
Originally posted by dadudemon
Where are these numbers coming from and how were they calculated? I will not search for the threads these were calculated in... I honestly don't care enough to.

The mach 1,000 feat is a pretty old calc though, done of Gotenks circling the globe.

The mach 28,000 is from Buutenks and Mystic Gohan reacting a blast that was apparently that fast, albeit Endless Mike disputed it. But then Endless Mike disputes anything that harms his preconception of DBZ power. That one was relatively recent, and I don't know if it is still "considered" valid, I haven't checked.

SSJGGogeta
@ dvampire: You're ****ing stupid. Goku as a child tanked a laser that was powerful enough to engage nuclear fusion and destroy an entire city. That size of laser reaches temperatures of 111,000,000 celsius, which is 7 times hotter than the suns core. He also dodged lasers of that caliber, which means he dodged photons, which move at the speed of light itself. Those beams are considered weak and slow compared to Piccolo's casual ki blast that destroyed the moon.

DBZ characters conserve energy and don't fly as fast in a line as they move when fighting. Superman can't even go that much faster than the speed of light. Goku dodged photons as a child. Goku as an adult can produce beams and move at speeds QUADRILLIONS of times faster than that. Superman gets roflblitzed like never before, and then Goku punches through his chest like it's sponge cake. I'm talking Goku when he beat Junior.

While Goku has no serious lifting feats, he could easily lift as much as he wanted when using ki. Shit, Arale lifted Mars and threw it at Jupiter for christ sake, and she was weaker than Raditz. Goku stomps on Superman's penis, turning it into paste, while he laughs at how fragile Superman is. This is still Saiyan saga Goku we're talking about. Post king Kai training Goku just makes Superman cry.

Who gives a **** about reading fast? How's that gonna help him when Goku is casually running circles around him billions of times faster than light, and he can't even conceive that someone's there? Goku stomps, the end.

NemeBro
Calm down.

Superman stomps.

TheTyrant
@Thread starter:

-Sending heat vision to the moon being impressive, when part 1 Dragon Ball characters could easily dish out moon busting blasts.

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/1/10997/228271-roshi_moonbuster_2_super.jpg

-Blitzing Mogul who isn't even a speedster being impressive, when Dragon Ball characters are MFTL in combat.

http://a.mpcdn.net/manga/p/280/52924/7.jpg
http://a.mpcdn.net/manga/p/280/52924/8.jpg

-Goku being unable to survive lava, when fcked up Frieza pretty much tanked the explosion of an entire planet, point blank.

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/2/29816/677066-frieza_floats_half_dead_through_space.jpg

Didn't read the rest of your post, but clearly you don't know what you're talking about. I've said this before, but if Saiyan Saga Vegeta went to DC earth as a villain, he would be a HUGE threat and all of Justice League would go after him, since he could blow up the planet with a single blast. To say that Superman stands a fraction of a chance against end of Z Goku is just wrong.

P.S. Calculations are stupid as authors don't take those things into cosideration. Pixel scaling is just lmao.

SSJGGogeta
@ NemeBro: Prove it.

@ TheTyrant: All of the justice league would go after him, but what would they accomplish? None of them can blow up planets with a gesture like he can, go faster than light(including Flash, because if he was faster than light, he would become part of speedforce, excluding Superman depending on the version, and only when talking about flight), and no one in the justice league could leave a scratch on great ape Vegeta if he felt like transforming.

Supra
Originally posted by carver9
People just don't realize what this post mean. Lifting fts is all nice and Dandy but in a battle, punching power is far more impressive and Superman doesn't have anything close to the type of punching power DBZ characters have. Black hair Goku stomps pre reboot AND current Supes as well. Originally posted by carver9
By the way, it was proven some time back that black hair Goku is above light speed.

This

Supra
Gogeta would wreck Vegitto in 3 seconds just like boo did. Gogeta is so far beyond the power of those portal rings and anything in existence. He is all that is of the DBZ Universe, a perfect fusion of the saijen master race.

TheTyrant
Not with an equal super saiyan transformation. The two fusions are either equal or the rings are > since no power level adjustment is necessary for their use.

SSJGGogeta
Don't bother conversing with a fan girl of his magnitude, he simply won't accept that his favorite character can be bested.

Supra
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Don't bother conversing with a fan girl of his magnitude, he simply won't accept that his favorite character can be bested.

At least I didn't name myself after your apparent loser. Go change you name you disgust me representing Gogeta in this meager way you have.

Gogeta has and never will be beaten. Vegetto got his ass beat down.

Supra
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Not with an equal super saiyan transformation. The two fusions are either equal or the rings are > since no power level adjustment is necessary for their use.

What point are you trying to make?

NemeBro
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
@ NemeBro: Prove it. Superman can bench press the Earth for days, Goku strains to pick up 40 tons at base.

Superman accidentally kills Goku.

TheTyrant
Originally posted by NemeBro
Superman can bench press the Earth for days, Goku strains to pick up 40 tons at base.

Superman accidentally kills Goku.

Compared to Goku, Superman has way more shitty showings if you want to go down the lowballing route.

And Piccolo here is easily over 40 tons. That's only 23rd Budokai Goku too.

Originally posted by Supra
What point are you trying to make?

That you're wrong?

NemeBro
Based on what is he over 40 tons?

Also, the best strength feat of Goku's doesn't come close to Superman.

TheTyrant
Based on the fact that he's about as big as a large whale? And lifting strength really doesn't matter in a fight. It's like having a powerlifter fight a trained martial artist, the former would be able to lift more, but the latter would be able to throw stronger punches. Who'd win?

BloodRain
That whole 'fighter vs weightlifter' argument is complete bs in these situations. Sure, it might work irl where the lifter can pick up two or three times what the fighter can..

..while this is the lifter pressing, for days on end without fatigue and even asking for more, hundreds of quintillions times the greatest strength shown by the fighter.


Grab the irl person with the strongest punch and have him trade blows with a fictitious body-builder who can hold a tank above his head. Who'd win?

Supra
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Compared to Goku, Superman has way more shitty showings if you want to go down the lowballing route.

And Piccolo here is easily over 40 tons. That's only 23rd Budokai Goku too.



That you're wrong?

Im wrong that your talking out your ass?

cdtm
Originally posted by BloodRain
That whole 'fighter vs weightlifter' argument is complete bs in these situations. Sure, it might work irl where the lifter can pick up two or three times what the fighter can..

..while this is the lifter pressing, for days on end without fatigue and even asking for more, hundreds of quintillions times the greatest strength shown by the fighter.


Grab the irl person with the strongest punch and have him trade blows with a fictitious body-builder who can hold a tank above his head. Who'd win?

Or have him trade blows with a crane. big grin

And besides, Supermans a fighter too.. For some reason, some people act like he can't fight his way out of a paper bag, just because he hasn't had much formalized training. But the best training is experience, and in his history (In all his incarnations) he's had plenty, against varied opponents.

He's had to pretty much self train himself to not only fight effectively with his powers, but stand up against those that equal, or exceed his stats, and in some cases experience (And by hundreds, or in some cases thousands of years)

BloodRain
He's had types of formal training though, as shown in that deathbattle vid (which 99% of DBZ forum fans have seen)

carver9
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Based on the fact that he's about as big as a large whale? And lifting strength really doesn't matter in a fight. It's like having a powerlifter fight a trained martial artist, the former would be able to lift more, but the latter would be able to throw stronger punches. Who'd win?

Exactly. Because going their route, Colossus lifting fts>>>>>Darkseid, Galactus, Odin, Thanos, Tyrant, and Zeus but I bet a single person in here wouldn't say Colossus is as strong as any of these characters. Their argument skills is half crazy.

BloodRain
Those listed are prime examples of powerscaling. For instance, we know Thor and other Class 100 Marvel characters are far stronger than Colossus with feats to prove so. We also know these characters, with continental to planetary strength, do not match up to the likes of Odin, Zeus or Galactus.

Can the same powerscaling work for DBZ? No, because they lack demonstrations of physical feats.

carver9
Originally posted by BloodRain
Those listed are prime examples of powerscaling. For instance, we know Thor and other Class 100 Marvel characters are far stronger than Colossus with feats to prove so. We also know these characters, with continental to planetary strength, do not match up to the likes of Odin, Zeus or Galactus.

Can the same powerscaling work for DBZ? No, because they lack demonstrations of physical feats.

It doesn't work like that. If you are basing things off of fts, then that's exactly where we need to look. LT, a multiversal abstract doesn't have a single strength ft but it doesn't matter because we know he is stronger than an elite. Fts can only get you so far. Hulk has some of the best fts of strength in comics but I sure as hell won't say he is physically above Galactus. It all boils down to common sense. We know Goku as a child was a 100+ tonner, his physical stats kept increasing afterwards. There's no need for him to lift a mountain when we can clearly see the shockwaves from his punches destroying them as a side affect and I'm not even talking about Super Saiyan Goku either. With that said, no Herald is tanking punches that can level mountain, especially numerous of them in a blitzing fashion and I am still talking about Black hair Goku.

TheTyrant
Originally posted by BloodRain
Those listed are prime examples of powerscaling. For instance, we know Thor and other Class 100 Marvel characters are far stronger than Colossus with feats to prove so. We also know these characters, with continental to planetary strength, do not match up to the likes of Odin, Zeus or Galactus.

Can the same powerscaling work for DBZ? No, because they lack demonstrations of physical feats.

You don't have anything to powerscale from? How about Android 18 tanking future Trunks' sword slash, the same sword slash that a chopped up someone who literally tanked a planet exploding in his face? There are plenty of powerscaling that can be done in Dragon Ball. You're pretty much saying that we can't assume that Raditz could tank blows from 23rd Budokai Goku and Piccolo :/

Originally posted by BloodRain
That whole 'fighter vs weightlifter' argument is complete bs in these situations. Sure, it might work irl where the lifter can pick up two or three times what the fighter can..

..while this is the lifter pressing, for days on end without fatigue and even asking for more, hundreds of quintillions times the greatest strength shown by the fighter.


Grab the irl person with the strongest punch and have him trade blows with a fictitious body-builder who can hold a tank above his head. Who'd win?

Since you obviously don't disagree with powerscaling, go ahead and powerscale from 23rd Budokai Goku's strength, from Roshi's moon busting Kamehameha for destructive power, and Roshi's bullet catching feat for speed.
Originally posted by Supra
Im wrong that your talking out your ass?

What am I wrong about fam?

NemeBro
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Based on the fact that he's about as big as a large whale? And lifting strength really doesn't matter in a fight. It's like having a powerlifter fight a trained martial artist, the former would be able to lift more, but the latter would be able to throw stronger punches. Who'd win? He is not as big as a "large whale".

Superman is strong enough to lift more than what Goku has ever physically destroyed. Oh, and this apparently isn't reboot Superman, looking at the OP, I guess?

If that is the case, Superman has cut moons in half physically, which is a better striking strength feat than anything in DBZ.

NemeBro
Originally posted by TheTyrant
You don't have anything to powerscale from? How about Android 18 tanking future Trunks' sword slash, the same sword slash that a chopped up someone who literally tanked a planet exploding in his face? There are plenty of powerscaling that can be done in Dragon Ball. You're pretty much saying that we can't assume that Raditz could tank blows from 23rd Budokai Goku and Piccolo :/



Since you obviously don't disagree with powerscaling, go ahead and powerscale from 23rd Budokai Goku's strength, from Roshi's moon busting Kamehameha for destructive power, and Roshi's bullet catching feat for speed.

No one said any of the points are are arguing against. Don't be an idiot.

NemeBro
Originally posted by carver9
It doesn't work like that. If you are basing things off of fts, then that's exactly where we need to look. LT, a multiversal abstract doesn't have a single strength ft but it doesn't matter because we know he is stronger than an elite. Fts can only get you so far. Hulk has some of the best fts of strength in comics but I sure as hell won't say he is physically above Galactus. It all boils down to common sense. We know Goku as a child was a 100+ tonner, his physical stats kept increasing afterwards. There's no need for him to lift a mountain when we can clearly see the shockwaves from his punches destroying them as a side affect and I'm not even talking about Super Saiyan Goku either. With that said, no Herald is tanking punches that can level mountain, especially numerous of them in a blitzing fashion and I am still talking about Black hair Goku. A. Shut up, you're an idiot who has no place in this world.

B. No DBZ character has strength feats on par with Superman, this is a fact.

C. Superman could tank being between two planets exploding, or flying through a moon so fast that the moon is cut in half. He can take a mountain-busting punch.

D. Please, by all means, show me black hair Goku leveling a mountain through the shockwaves of his punches.

carver9
Correction...Superman didnt split a moon in half by punching it, he flew through the moon and split it and if anyone thinks flying through rock is beyond Goku, then they are crazy.

NemeBro
A. Point out where "punch" and "moon" showed up in the same sentence within my post.

B. Superman can fly. Superman can punch. Superman can do both at the same time. Superman simply flying tore a moon in half. Superman flying while also punching hits harder.

C. Goku has never destroyed that much with a single physical attack of any type.

D. Still waiting for that black haired Goku feat where he destroys an honest to God mountain with the shockwave of his punch.

SSJGGogeta
@ NemeBro: I was gonna explain nearly the same thing about abstracts being stronger than Supe's and Hulk when they don't have feats, but TheTyrant beat me to the punch...

Anyway, Goku doesn't have many strength feats, because he doesn't need them. Goku lifted forty tons on a planet with 100 times gravity without using ki. Goku obviously didn't have a ki aura around him while doing it, and several DBZ characters have lifted HILARIOUSLY more than that on multiple occasions. Frieza lifted an entire MOUNTAIN, with just his telekinesis, and Goku easily ran through it, while also somehow cutting it in half.

Cell effortlessly lifted a planet busting meteor like it was nothing before destroying it with a simple blast. Not to mention that Cell destroyed a mountain with a simple ki blast that he wouldn't use against Goku because it was too weak, so he can presumably bust more than a mountain with a weak punch, and, using the same power Goku does, Goku can do the same, as he is on par with Cell. in SSJ1, and stronger than him in base during the Buu saga.

Two planets? Let's see Superman get beaten to pieces by Goku, cut in half, get his arm cut off, and then survive a multi-planet busting attack, before tanking a planet exploding on him. If he does, then we can establish him to have Frieza's level of durability. Frieza, who base Goku and Supreme Kia in the Buu saga were both at least a thousand times more powerful, i.e. durable, than. Goku as a child could destroy the moon with a single blast, with a power level of 150.

To add insult to injury, Goku lifted an 10 by 10 ft. block of metal with density near that of a black hole effortlessly with one hand in base, which would weigh roughly about 576,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons, or 576 octillion tons. Assuming he has the same strength in both arms, he can effortlessly lift 1,152,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons in base, or 1 nonillion 152 octillion tons. Mind you he can do this effortlessly, Superman gets killed with a slap from Goten's penis.

NemeBro
Tonnage is a measurement of mass.

40 tons on a planet with 100 times Earth's gravity isn't suddenly 4,000 tons, because if it were, it wouldn't be 40 tons at all.

40 tons is 40 tons. Were it heavier than that, it wouldn't be 40 tons.

Freeza did not lift a mountain with telekinesis in the manga.

Actually, a lot of your posts consist of filler arguments. Which I don't give a **** about.

Superman survived a blast equivalent to 50 supernovas, which is well beyond any DBZ character's output.

Also, base Goku is weaker than Freeza, apparently.

Goku didn't lift anything that heavy, you're a liar.

SSJGGogeta
Scans of Superman surviving a 50 supernova blast. Last time I checked, it was an exaggerated 15(which even Screwattack admitted was impossible, because that amount of energy would have instantly produced enough luminosity to blind everyone within light years of it) and the blast didn't even destroy the moon. If you don't give a **** about filler, then I guess you also pit Goku against the Superman who was faster than a speeding bullet, stronger than a steaming locomotive, and smarter than a super computer from the 50's. Either way, Goten shits on Superman.

Goku did lift that much weight, as Katchin was stated in the Daizenshuu 7 to be nearly as dense as a black hole, and with the density of a black hole being 10 by 10 by 10 feet, which the cube was at least(also stated in the Daizenshuu, and able to understand as Goku was a little more than half as tall as it), it would weigh roughly 1 nonillion, 152 octillion tons. Don't call people liars because you don't comprehend simple mathematics and physics.

NemeBro
To be blunt, you can go **** yourself if you think I'm tracking down scans for anything when you haven't posted a single one, lol.

Also, impossible huh? Sort of like how something with the mass of a black hole not having its own gravitational pull would be, eh?

Only Superman's feats since the Golden Age are actually canon, unlike filler feats. Actually, since the OP specified which Superman is being used, for this thread post-crisis (But I guess pre New 52) Superman is more canon than the Golden Age, and you have to deal with it little boy.

Anyway, provide the Daizenshuu 7 scan. Not that it really matters, mind you, because it is blatantly contradicted by the 40 ton limit in the manga.

40 tons.

Toriyama wrote it.

Canon. thumb up

Tzeentch
Goku rape-stomps.

BloodRain
Originally posted by carver9
It doesn't work like that. If you are basing things off of fts, then that's exactly where we need to look. LT, a multiversal abstract doesn't have a single strength ft but it doesn't matter because we know he is stronger than an elite. Fts can only get you so far. Hulk has some of the best fts of strength in comics but I sure as hell won't say he is physically above Galactus. It all boils down to common sense. We know Goku as a child was a 100+ tonner, his physical stats kept increasing afterwards. There's no need for him to lift a mountain when we can clearly see the shockwaves from his punches destroying them as a side affect and I'm not even talking about Super Saiyan Goku either. With that said, no Herald is tanking punches that can level mountain, especially numerous of them in a blitzing fashion and I am still talking about Black hair Goku.

No, it actually does work like that. A strength feat is the character demonstrating their strength in some raw form. Colossus lifting a rock formation is his strength feat. Thor beating him down and pulling off one of his own greater feats, are both feats. Odin being routinely and constantly shown to arm wrestle Thor into a coma with his pinky? That is a feat. That is also basic common sense; The character far stronger than another will obviously share and best the latter's strength feats.

But look, you've even trying to prove his strength here. And what do we get? "we can clearly see the shockwaves from his punches destroying them as a side affect" Is this really the best Goku has? How on Earth does that compare to Superman's strength?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
You don't have anything to powerscale from? How about Android 18 tanking future Trunks' sword slash, the same sword slash that a chopped up someone who literally tanked a planet exploding in his face? There are plenty of powerscaling that can be done in Dragon Ball. You're pretty much saying that we can't assume that Raditz could tank blows from 23rd Budokai Goku and Piccolo :/
Comprehend the point, then. Because if you're seeing "lulz Radits gets pwnd by baby Piccolo ***** slap" then you did not grasp it.

Its already constantly shown that characters can be be harmed by damage below overall ki durability. Unless the rocks thrown at Goku were near planetary, or Goku's teeth when biting Freeza's tail. There are no strength feats or strength DC showings apart from Multi-city block level.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Since you obviously don't disagree with powerscaling, go ahead and powerscale from 23rd Budokai Goku's strength, from Roshi's moon busting Kamehameha for destructive power, and Roshi's bullet catching feat for speed. The powerscaling rule would just mean a stronger character is above those feats to an unspecified degree. Thats all.

carver9
Originally posted by BloodRain
No, it actually does work like that. A strength feat is the character demonstrating their strength in some raw form. Colossus lifting a rock formation is his strength feat. Thor beating him down and pulling off one of his own greater feats, are both feats. Odin being routinely and constantly shown to arm wrestle Thor into a coma with his pinky? That is a feat. That is also basic common sense; The character far stronger than another will obviously share and best the latter's strength feats.

But look, you've even trying to prove his strength here. And what do we get? "we can clearly see the shockwaves from his punches destroying them as a side affect" Is this really the best Goku has? How on Earth does that compare to Superman's strength?


Comprehend the point, then. Because if you're seeing "lulz Radits gets pwnd by baby Piccolo ***** slap" then you did not grasp it.

Its already constantly shown that characters can be be harmed by damage below overall ki durability. Unless the rocks thrown at Goku were near planetary, or Goku's teeth when biting Freeza's tail. There are no strength feats or strength DC showings apart from Multi-city block level.

The powerscaling rule would just mean a stronger character is above those feats to an unspecified degree. Thats all.

Lol...so Spiderman beating Hulk is a strength ft? Wolverine beating Thing is a strength ft? Batman beating Grundy is a strength ft? I guess that means that these people are 100 tonners. Your logic fails...badly and power scaling doesn't work like that.

NemeBro
No, but if Wolverine actually physically overpowered Thing, that would be a strength feat. Odin can easily, casually overpower Thor, and has done so. That is a strength feat.

Your strawman arguments have no power here. Go away.

carver9
Originally posted by NemeBro
No, but if Wolverine actually physically overpowered Thing, that would be a strength feat. Odin can easily, casually overpower Thor, and has done so. That is a strength feat.

Your strawman arguments have no power here. Go away.

So you have scans of Galactus overpowering Class 100s? Lol...and Spiderman has physically trashed class 100's.

NemeBro
Originally posted by carver9
So you have scans of Galactus overpowering Class 100s? Lol...and Spiderman has physically trashed class 100's. I really don't know why you think you're fooling anyone when you try to compare DBZ characters to abstracts like the Living Tribunal or Galactus. Stop insulting my intelligence by pretending that you have a valid point. Galactus has access to vast cosmic energies that he can use in virtually any fashion, including amplifying his size and strength. He has also bestowed the Power Cosmic to multiple guys like the Silver Surfer, who has easily class 100 strength.

But since you asked:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/stormbreaker0122cw5.jpg

Crushes Beta Rill Bill with a single double-handed slap, and casually.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/007-SSv375.jpg

Ditto Surfer.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/thor161178be.jpg

Manhandling Thor.

I'll be honest: I follow Marvel even less than I do DC, because I more or less don't give a **** about Marvel, but this shit isn't even that hard to find in the age of the internet. And more than that, your stupid analogy is garbage because it ignores that we know for a fact that Galactus is, by Marvel canon, several tiers above class 100s like Thor, who can devastate the surface of planets with the force of his blows (God of Thunder), so he can get by powerscaling off Thor and other guys.

Goku isn't a Marvel character, or a DC character. He's never by canon fought anyone from those universes. He doesn't get to use powerscaling from anyone but the people in his own series, whose strength feats frankly suck, compared to what Superman has collected.

And really, why don't you be a dear and show me those scans where black hair Goku destroys mountains with the shockwaves of his blows, huh?

As for Spiderman, which class 100s eh?

Because he's also been entirely ineffectual against class 100s, like when he fought Hercules and damn near broke his fist on the demigod's chin.

TheTyrant
Originally posted by NemeBro
He is not as big as a "large whale".

Superman is strong enough to lift more than what Goku has ever physically destroyed. Oh, and this apparently isn't reboot Superman, looking at the OP, I guess?

If that is the case, Superman has cut moons in half physically, which is a better striking strength feat than anything in DBZ.

Then how big would you say Piccolo was? And how heavy? Anyways, I'll give physical strength and intelligence to Superman. Though fighting skill, combat speed, as well as destructive capacity are all Goku's, imo. Versatility is a toss-up depending on how they fight and CIS. And do you guys use different types of durability? Like being able to tank physical blows vs being able to tank blasts? Or do you consider them to be the same thing?

By the way, Odin isn't listed as a class 100 character. Without looking back, he's class 75 or so.

BloodRain
Being stronger than Thor makes him Class 100+, easy.

Sticking to the combat speed thing?

NemeBro
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Then how big would you say Piccolo was? And how heavy? Anyways, I'll give physical strength and intelligence to Superman. Though fighting skill, combat speed, as well as destructive capacity are all Goku's, imo. Versatility is a toss-up depending on how they fight and CIS. And do you guys use different types of durability? Like being able to tank physical blows vs being able to tank blasts? Or do you consider them to be the same thing?

By the way, Odin isn't listed as a class 100 character. Without looking back, he's class 75 or so. Piccolo was about fifty feet tall.

Heavy?

Even at just shy of sixty feet tall, using the square cube law, the 255 pound Piccolo would "only" be 65.8 tons.

Combat speed? Neh. Destructive capacity is Goku's though.

I personally take into account varying durabilities. Superman's showings are typically similar no matter the type of energy unless it is one of his weaknesses, but Goku's resistance to physical trauma is less than his resistance to ki.

Supra
Originally posted by dvampire


Goku can't survive the tempatures of lava.

Goku can survive in lava, I'm pretty damn sure he fell into in when Namek was being destroyed after he fought freeza.

Supra
Originally posted by dvampire
Superman has to very leathal attacks, one being able to freeze you to death. There's no coming back and Goku can't regenerate dead cells, which is what will happen if he freezes Goku. Fight is over.

rolling on floor laughing rolling on floor laughing

And this makes any sense?

TheTyrant
Originally posted by Supra
rolling on floor laughing rolling on floor laughing

And this makes any sense? It doesn't.

TheTyrant
Originally posted by BloodRain
Unless the rocks thrown at Goku were near planetary,
Filler.



They're two people around the same league in terms of strength. Not sure what you're implying here.



Attack potency =/= area of effect damage. Like how Frieza survived the explosion of a planet (this was an actual explosion, no ki was here for that split durability argument), but was chopped to pieces by Trunks' sword. Meaning that Trunks' hits pack more power than a planetary explosion, thus meaning that via powerscaling and not downplaying, Dragon Ball characters possess DC strength far above multi-city block level. To further reiterate the difference between attack potency and area of effect, think of how characters who make planet busters look like ants are hurt by blasts that barely destroy a mountain range. That is all attack potency and the DBZ characters are able to concentrate their ki in tiny blasts in order to minimize the damage dealt to their surroundings. It's that simple and it makes sense by very logical powerscaling.

High end mid-tier Dragon Ball characters (like ssj2 characters, Super Perfect Cell, etc) have at least multi-planet level durability, destructive capacity, and are also massively faster than light in combat. Tell me how those are such bad stats that a herald level character can "stomp" them.

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