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The two most powerful Sith Lords in history face off on Ziost. No holds barred, everything goes fight to the death. Who wins? Can Vitiate dominate Palpatine's mind or can the Sith who beat Yoda destroy him?

Sidious wins

Sidious Speed Blitz ftw.

Sidious wins.

Vitiate's skill with the lightsaber or lack there of will be his demise here. He was disarmed by a Saber throw by Meetra who herself could barely match a Dark Council member with Lord Scourge's help. Sidious will blitz Vitiate easier than he did the Masters.

Basically two most powerful Sith in mythos. Force contest is a draw. So it becomes physical contest. Palpatine is master in both armed and unarmed combat, therefore he wins.

The only interesting thing to discuss is mental power of either of them.

Vitiate
"We underestimated his power. When we confronted him, he didn’t even have to fight us. Instead, he broke our wills. He dominated our minds, turning us into puppets to do his bidding."
Sounds impressive but it's too vague. We don't know what state of mind they had, what emotions and thoughts stirred in their head. Revan was the most powerful Jedi of his time but no matter how strong character is, his fear, doubts, despair and other negative emotions can be exposed making him much more vulnerable to mind influence. Basically we can only guess on how impressive this feat is.
Then we have fully prepared and over-confident Jedi strike team. But Vitiate didn't try to break their will, he electrocuted them instead and mind dominated after, when they had mental guard down. Then in fight with JK he didn't try mind domination either.

Sidious did not mind dominate a lot of people but he has got actual examples:
"“The Emperor appeared out of the settling smoke, glee on his face. He raised one hand as though to touch the apprentice. The apprentice felt a wave of hypnotic suggestion flow through him.

Yes! Kill him! He is weak, broken! Kill him and you can take your rightful place at my side!

The apprentice remained frozen, mesmerized by the Emperor's ghastly charisma. Why not? Wasn't this what he had considered on Raxus Prime? If he agreed to that plan, he would be free of one Master and slave to another-but what was to stop him from attacking that Master in turn, one day? He would not make the same mistakes Darth Vader had.

Darth Vader-who had murdered his father, lied to and betrayed him, killed PROXY, branded Juno a traitor, and kidnapped Kota and the others. Didn't he deserve to die a thousand times over?

And power-he had become used to it in the service of his Master. When the dark side sang through him, others danced to his will. That would be hard to give up.

"No!" Kota's voice came as though from a great distance. The apprentice noted, as though viewing the world in slow motion, the Jedi Master telekinetically snatching the Emperor's lightsaber from his waist and, with a surety belying his physical blindness, using it to cut down the Imperial Guards watching the prisoners. Lunging forward, he struck next at the Emperor, who stood, apparently unarmed, with one hand still reaching out for the apprentice.

But the Emperor was never unarmed. Raising his other hand, he blasted Kota with lightning before the blow came close to falling. Sith energy crackled between them and the Jedi Master fell back, caught in the Emperor's deadly grip.

"Help him!"

Bail Organa's voice snapped the apprentice out of his trance. He shook his head, feeling the Emperor's influence sliding off him like oil. What had he been thinking? He didn't want to return to the dark side after everything he had been through. He had seen what it did, in Maris Brood, on Felucia, and in the eyes of Darth Vader. He didn't even want to kill his Master, now that he saw him humbled and at his mercy. That was where it had all started, he now realized. When Darth Vader had killed Galen's father and Galen had snatched the lightsaber from his hand, his intention had been solely to avenge his father's death. That had been what Vader had seen in him all those years ago, not just that he was strong with the Force-and that was why Galen had blotted out the person he had once been. He had taken through. He had seen what it did, in Maris Brood, on Felucia, and in the eyes of Darth Vader. He didn't even want to kill his Master, now that he saw him humbled and at his mercy. That was where it had all started, he now realized. When Darth Vader had killed Galen's father and Galen had snatched the lightsaber from his hand, his intention had been solely to avenge his father's death. That had been what Vader had seen in him all those years ago, not just that he was strong with the Force-and that was why Galen had blotted out the person he had once been. He had taken that first step down the path of the dark side all on his own, before he had been subjected to Vader's cruel tutelage. He had to retract it now or submit to the dark side forever.

Murdering Darth Vader would accomplish nothing. Saving his friends might change the course of history.

Seen in that light, the decision was surprisingly easy."

This example clearly shows that Sidious utilizes mind domination to make others do what he wants. And that his influence works even on Marek with his unparalelled feats. Marek didn't even care, when Palpatine started killing Kota, thanks to Bale Organa for bringing him back to his senses.

Another example is Luke. By the end of their duel he mind dominated Luke. Also, we have mind dominated Kam Solusar.
Apart from that we have Mara, on his death he drove a thought to kill Skywalker and she became obsessed with that. Even after she befriended him and realized that she doesn't want to kill him, the thought and false dreams kept haunting her and she got read of it only by killing Luuke.
And on Palpatine's death entire fleet turned into chaos, which implies that he had influence on all of them.

So in case of Palpatine we don't have any hype but actual examples with two most powerful characters in the mythos being dominated.

And with Vitiate we have a lot of hype from stories but not a single demonstration.

So is Vitiate's mind domination is really stronger or he just abused this power much more often?

I fail to understand that how people have assumed that Sidious (ROTS incarnation) can stand up to Vitiate?

Vitiate is so strong in the Force that he does not needs a lightsaber to get the job done. He has good chance at overwhelming and defeating Sidious (ROTS incarnation) with his Force powers.

Also, he fights very differently from those 3 Jedi Masters that Sidious slew easily. They underestimated Sidious and paid for this dearly.

It is apparent from canonical sources that Vitiate attempts to prevent his opponents to strike him with the lightsaber. He has good chance to do so in this duel as well.

And actually... Arhael, I'd add DoE Bane to the "most powerful Sith in the mythos" list, making it three rather than two.

And as to the thread... Well, judging by the novel Revan, I agree that Sidious does defeat Vitiate in a purely physical duel, but forcewise... I doubt it. Evidence suggests that Vitiate's mind-dominating powers are unparalleled. Sidious, as proven, has considerable skill in this aspect as well, but I wouldn't say there's enough to demonstrate he's on par with Vitiate.

He dominated both Revan and Malak's minds, tricking them both into believing that they were actually his pawns... Hell, they attacked the Republic and turned to the dark side because he said so.

The real question here is: would he be able to do the same with Palpatine? I don't think so.

Four.

Nihilus is up there with the most powerful as well.

It's a hard call. Per the word of Lucas and the Sith guide Sidious was the most powerful Sith, but it seems much closer when you actually compare the feats achieved and duels that the top Sith Lords fought.

All out though I still see Sidious taking it.

If there was no canon statements, all drew's characters would have been by far strongest in the mythos because it is how he portrays them. Adequate comparisons are impossible. If people rely on canon facts, then Sidious is more powerful by small margin but if we rely on feats alone, then Vitiate instantly kills Palpatine with a wave of hand and it's not an exaggeration.

No, but it is incorrect. Vitiate hasn't shown anything that say he could omgwtfbbq pwn Sidious. Let alone do that while Sidious is speed blitzing him.

Originally posted by Arhael
If there was no canon statements, all drew's characters would have been by far strongest in the mythos because it is how he portrays them. Adequate comparisons are impossible. If people rely on canon facts, then Sidious is more powerful by small margin but if we rely on feats alone, then Vitiate instantly kills Palpatine with a wave of hand and it's not an exaggeration.

Like he did to Revan amirite?

Originally posted by Pwned
No, but it is incorrect. Vitiate hasn't shown anything that say he could omgwtfbbq pwn Sidious. Let alone do that while Sidious is speed blitzing him.
I agree with you. What I mean is that creator of the Kotor and TOR makes it look like that.

This is what I specifically mean:
Originally posted by Arhael
Other authors at least make the most powerful villains to be something else like insane Jedi or Abeloth, so not to question Palpatine's status but Drew took things beyond any limits.
In Kotor we have immortal Darth Sion who couldn't even be killed by lightsaber. Then we have Traya that apprenticed him and she wasn't even born, when he was already actively participating in Exar Kun's war. She even aprenticed him second time later on. Serioisly what on earth did he need to learn from her??? Then we have Nihilus who stripped her off the Force, reaped starship out of mass shadows as well as holded it together and consumed planets. Then we have Meetra that somehow kills all of them. Then she gets casually defeated by Nyriss and she can't even block her lightning with lightsaber. Then Revan casually defeats Nyriss and later after that Meetra's embarrasing performance he says: "I always knew you had great potential, but you have become far greater than I could ever have imagined". Then Vitiate casually defeats Revan. Then JK defeats Vitiate. And still fans anticipate even more impressive stuff. Seriously, how many power levels in Drew's universe? It is on verge between stupid and idiotic.

Originally posted by Arhael
I agree with you. What I mean is that creator of the Kotor and TOR makes it look like that.

This is what I specifically mean:

My problem with Drew is that he gives these characters this enormous amount of hype, the writes them as less than impressive.
Like
'ZOMG HE TOOK DOWN THE WHOLE DARK COUNCIL'
The he has trouble smiting Revan...and Meetra...MEETRA gives him hesitation. The same Meetra who was getting shitstomped by Nyriss.

Yeah, Drew tends to do to his characters what Traviss did to the Mandalorians. Good thing Traviss never wrote in any of Drew's characters, or they would be fighting mandos that wtfbbq beat them, then they go and mind rape the entire planet of Mandalore.


I enjoyed Drew's works up to DoE. The Bane trilogy was quite good imo, and KoToR 1 and 2 are obviously favorites. Other than that, Zahn ftw!

Originally posted by Pwned
Yeah, Drew tends to do to his characters what Traviss did to the Mandalorians. Good thing Traviss never wrote in any of Drew's characters, or they would be fighting mandos that wtfbbq beat them, then they go and mind rape the entire planet of Mandalore.


I enjoyed Drew's works up to DoE. The Bane trilogy was quite good imo, and KoToR 1 and 2 are obviously favorites. Other than that, Zahn ftw!

Drew didn't write KOTOR II if I am correct. Which is probably why the Exile and the Trimunitive get shafted during the Revan novel.

I had thought he did the story for both KoToR games.

IMO, the biggest problem with KoToR 2 was the lack of backstory. Most people who bought the game were not going to go and get the stuff that actually provides it (I certainly didn't) and so they miss out. I would have preferred them to do it in-game. Like who GOTO actually is, how Nihilus and Sion came to be, Traya's exploits before the game, etc.

If you max out your influence with GOTO you learn that he's a droid that was created to help stabalise the Republic but realised that such a thing was impossible legally so he became a crime boss. :O)

:O

That's actually interesting. I never bothered to max out influence with non-Jedi characters.

More interesting: Remember that Telos needed a new management droid at the very start of the game because something had happened to the first one? Well:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060224164936/starwars/images/thumb/2/2b/Gotofull.jpg/250px-Gotofull.jpg

Oh shit.

I didn't like the influence system. Never liked the idea of having to sacrifice alignment just to say the right things to people so they open up their side-quest.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Oh shit.

I love the little things like that.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I didn't like the influence system. Never liked the idea of having to sacrifice alignment just to say the right things to people so they open up their side-quest.

I thought it's the best dialogue system of any RPG. BioWare makes it far too easy in Mass Effect to say the right things. Dragon Age was better but you can whore people out with gifts.

It sucks to give up alignment sometimes, sure but LS/DS points came very easily IIRC.

Originally posted by Based
I thought it's the best dialogue system of any RPG. BioWare makes it far too easy in Mass Effect to say the right things. Dragon Age was better but you can whore people out with gifts.

It sucks to give up alignment sometimes, sure but LS/DS points came very easily IIRC.
It was so bloody hard to max out alignment though. If KOTOR II was a bit bigger and had more dialogue it would have been awesome though.

Originally posted by Based
I thought it's the best dialogue system of any RPG. BioWare makes it far too easy in Mass Effect to say the right things. Dragon Age was better but you can whore people out with gifts.

It sucks to give up alignment sometimes, sure but LS/DS points came very easily IIRC. It's not that. The characters have all already decided to join you in your quest to... do... whatever (I never really got the motivations in the second game). Why are they entrusting you to lead them to... whatever it is they're personally after, when they can't even open up their backstory to you? "I trust you, total stranger, to lead me to wherever you want, put me in harm's way, and in exchange, I need you to say the right thing. Only then will I talk."

The first game made sense--the party characters were ideologically or emotionally inclined to join you. The second game just kind of had them say "whatever". They blindly join up and then demand you tickle their ego just right in order to say anything about themselves. So knowing that's what you have to do made it really annoying that it also cost you alignment points, when all you're trying to do is get them to have a f*cking conversation.

Dude, why people are so quick to follow you is one of the key plot points of the game. It's very clearly explained.

And it's a bullshit cop-out. "You draw people to you, you're a natural leader." Literally people who have no clear reason to be there, abandon what they were doing, and unless you woo them the right way, don't open up to you. If they're so hypnotized in to abandoning their master (Visas), abandoning their comrades (Mandalore), abandoning their trade (bounty hunter chick), why then can they not talk about themselves?

No, its because the Exile forms Force Bonds with everyone. Gaining more influence with people by saying things that get them to like you is simply a representation of the Force Bond getting stronger.

Hell you can get early influence with Atton just by getting into pointless fights that he feels compelled to join in with despite not actually wanting to.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I didn't like the influence system. Never liked the idea of having to sacrifice alignment just to say the right things to people so they open up their side-quest.

Agreed. The point of an rpg is to play the game how you want. By requiring you to say specific things to certain members to learn their back story and to uncover their side quests. Even worse is the fact that many of these characters back stories are highly relevant to the game and that it's impossible to max all characters influence throughout the game.

It would be fine if getting max influence wasn't required to learn their back story and get the side quests and rather allowed you to train them as Jedi. But as it is now.... It's an absolutely shit system.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, its because the Exile forms Force Bonds with everyone. Gaining more influence with people by saying things that get them to like you is simply a representation of the Force Bond getting stronger.

Hell you can get early influence with Atton just by getting into pointless fights that he feels compelled to join in with despite not actually wanting to. What a lazy plot device to explain why characters who give no real motivation still accompany you on your dangerous, personal quest. You know what would have been better than character growth via tickle-me-Elmo? Party members who express desires inherent to real people, and who leave if they see no reason to stay. The game would have been so much fun juggling influence with alignment if party members actually left the group if you didn't stay on their good side. If Mandalore felt you weren't worth the time, if Mical or Brianna thought you were too Dark Sidey, if Visas thought you were too... something (I don't remember what she wanted--nothing, I think). That would be great at demonstrating the effects of your choices and conversations--make you appreciate the consequences while also giving the characters... actual character!


Originally posted by ares834
Agreed. The point of an rpg is to play the game how you want. By requiring you to say specific things to certain members to learn their back story and to uncover their side quests. Even worse is the fact that many of these characters back stories are highly relevant to the game and that it's impossible to max all characters influence throughout the game.

It would be fine if getting max influence wasn't required to learn their back story and get the side quests and rather allowed you to train them as Jedi. But as it is now.... It's an absolutely shit system. I could (and have before) go on and on how KotOR II sucks. The boring story, the boring characters, overpowered attacks, the bazillion useless items, the choppy graphics and framerate (Xbox anyway), the quasi-cutscenes that drench the player with expository dialogue but which your player character isn't present for, giving away who the ultimate mystery bad guy is right from the beginning...

The first KotOR may be comparatively simple, with its straightforward story, relatively linear gampelay etc. But it worked. Obsidian tried to go for this mysterious, dark, "dramatic" cerebral route and IMO, it failed spectacularly.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
What a lazy plot device to explain why characters who give no real motivation still accompany you on your dangerous, personal quest. You know what would have been better than character growth via tickle-me-Elmo? Party members who express desires inherent to real people, and who leave if they see no reason to stay.

I don't see how you can call it a lazy plot device when it's one of the most documented and discussed parts of the plot in the game.

I also disagree with there being no reason for them to stay or join you other than the Force Bond. Lets go down the list:

Kriea: Durrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Atton: You rescue him and help each other get off Peragus. From there you still need to work together to get off of Telos and by the time he could leave he is fully invested. Also he has reasons from his past for why he's interesting in what you do.

T3: You own the Ebon Hawk and they're a package deal. Also he's on a mission for Revan to get you.

HK-47: He decides you're his new master, is connected to the Sith through Revan and wants to follow you because you attract those shitty rip-offs who aren't nearly as handsome as he is.

Bao-Dur: Still thinks of you as his General and wants to get over the guilt of Malachor.

Brianna: She wants to bone you. Also she wants to learn to use the Force and generally to just keep an eye on you.

Visas: She's oddly subservient to you cuz you saved her life. She also explains that she finds you fascinating and doesn't want you to die.

Mical: You were going to be his Master back before the war, he's a spy for the Republic and he has an interest in the Jedi.

Mandalore: Kreia blackmails him with info about Revan.

Hanharr: Kreia blackmails him with a life debt.

Mira: She was hired by Zez-Kai Ell to secretly watch over Surik and keep Goto off her back until he could speak with her. Then she helps rescue you and joins you. Probably the one with the least reason but she is a Bounty Hunter so its not like she has a busy life to get back to or anything better to do.

GO-TO: He's hired you to help restore the galaxy and to stop the Sith. He has a vested interest in your goal.

I'd say those were desires expressed by real people. In many of the cases the reason they have for following you is directly tied into their backstory.

You could just as easily ask why Carth, Canderous, Mission or Juhani come with you. Carth has nothing to do with your mission, and he's abandoning his job as a soldier for the Republic. Canderous also has zero reasons to keep following you around except that you get into cool fights. You're not even paying him. I have no idea why Mission wasn't thrown off the ship as soon as they get to Dantooine she's 14 ****ing years old for christs sake. And Juhani just kinda comes with you because.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The game would have been so much fun juggling influence with alignment if party members actually left the group if you didn't stay on their good side. If Mandalore felt you weren't worth the time, if Mical or Brianna thought you were too Dark Sidey, if Visas thought you were too... something (I don't remember what she wanted--nothing, I think). That would be great at demonstrating the effects of your choices and conversations--make you appreciate the consequences while also giving the characters... actual character!

Yes that would have been cool.


.....








































































Ok, I'm not that much of a douche. Unfortunately that just wasn't the story they wanted to tell. It wouldn't have made any sense with the concept of Force Bonds. And unfortunately Developers do not make games tailor made for each person. What you wanted just isn't what they made. That doesn't make it a bad game.

No, that's not what it makes it a bad game. This is:

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The boring story, the boring characters, overpowered attacks, the bazillion useless items, the choppy graphics and framerate (Xbox anyway), the quasi-cutscenes that drench the player with expository dialogue but which your player character isn't present for, giving away who the ultimate mystery bad guy is right from the beginning...


A bad game is a boring game. And KotOR II was boring. Really boring. Three characters (Visas, Mical, Brianna) have almost no personality, and barely any inflection in their voices (Visas especially). Atton is Carth x10 in his whining and mistrust. Kreia's a cryptic pseudo-sage whose shtick gets old. Mandalore is just Canderous 2.0 with the added deflation of blackmail and a hard-on for Revan (he's still badass, but by no means is he interesting). I never brought in Hanharr cuz I just can't stand Wookiees. Mira was the only semi-interesting one. G0-T0 and HK were the only ones I liked talking to. Everyone else was just a stick in the mud who demanded you be nice to them before they tell you anything pertinent--though again, why they felt so inclined to risk their lives when they can't even tell you why is beyond me. There's no mystery, there's no thrill, there's no plot I want to work toward resolving. And there's no climax. Not in the typical sense anyway. There's an ending to be sure, but no climax. The fight with Nihilus was a major letdown (Nihilus as a character was a letdown, actually). And the confrontation with Sion and Traya was just so... so... blech. I just wanted the damn game to be over by then.

The first game is simple in comparison, but the second game is just a mess. Unlikeable characters, an unbelievably boring story, and (solely gameplay here) the million different items and item crafting options really slowed the game down.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No, that's not what it makes it a bad game. This is:

You not arguing with my points = I win.

http://i.imgur.com/tFB5V.gif

Woohoo!

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
A bad game is a boring game. And KotOR II was boring. Really boring.

Subjectiiiiiiiive! (I'm singing that line)

I was enthralled by the game when I played it.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Three characters (Visas, Mical, Brianna) have almost no personality, and barely any inflection in their voices (Visas especially).

Just because they're stoic doesn't make them bad characters (although Mical is a bad character). I personally found Visas and Brianna to be really damn interesting characters.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Atton is Carth x10 in his whining and mistrust.

WTF? No, just no. Atton is only mistrustful of Kriea cuz she frickin' mindrapes him like a few hours into the game and frequently talks down to him. The dude is literally designed to be a mirror image to Carth as a soldier who stayed with Revan and the Sith.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Kreia's a cryptic pseudo-sage whose shtick gets old.

Fffffffffffffffffffffff**** you.

No, but my hard-on for Kreia is well documented. I do in fact own a Kreia body pillow. That I ****. With my dick.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Mandalore is just Canderous 2.0 with the added deflation of blackmail and a hard-on for Revan (he's still badass, but by no means is he interesting).

Psst: He is Canderous.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I never brought in Hanharr cuz I just can't stand Wookiees.

Considering he's pretty much a deconstruction of a Wookiee, not a good call.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Mira was the only semi-interesting one. G0-T0 and HK were the only ones I liked talking to. Everyone else was just a stick in the mud who demanded you be nice to them before they tell you anything pertinent--though again, why they felt so inclined to risk their lives when they can't even tell you why is beyond me.

Personal shit be Personal bro. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif

Gotta 'spect dat.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
There's no mystery, there's no thrill, there's no plot I want to work toward resolving. And there's no climax. Not in the typical sense anyway. There's an ending to be sure, but no climax. The fight with Nihilus was a major letdown (Nihilus as a character was a letdown, actually). And the confrontation with Sion and Traya was just so... so... blech. I just wanted the damn game to be over by then.

Again this is all subjective, although I do agree that Nihilus was too easy and needed to be made into a moar epic boss fight.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No, that's not what it makes it a bad game. This is:




A bad game is a boring game. And KotOR II was boring. Really boring. Three characters (Visas, Mical, Brianna) have almost no personality, and barely any inflection in their voices (Visas especially). Atton is Carth x10 in his whining and mistrust. Kreia's a cryptic pseudo-sage whose shtick gets old. Mandalore is just Canderous 2.0 with the added deflation of blackmail and a hard-on for Revan (he's still badass, but by no means is he interesting). I never brought in Hanharr cuz I just can't stand Wookiees. Mira was the only semi-interesting one. G0-T0 and HK were the only ones I liked talking to. Everyone else was just a stick in the mud who demanded you be nice to them before they tell you anything pertinent--though again, why they felt so inclined to risk their lives when they can't even tell you why is beyond me. There's no mystery, there's no thrill, there's no plot I want to work toward resolving. And there's no climax. Not in the typical sense anyway. There's an ending to be sure, but no climax. The fight with Nihilus was a major letdown (Nihilus as a character was a letdown, actually). And the confrontation with Sion and Traya was just so... so... blech. I just wanted the damn game to be over by then.

The first game is simple in comparison, but the second game is just a mess. Unlikeable characters, an unbelievably boring story, and (solely gameplay here) the million different items and item crafting options really slowed the game down.

I'm too lazy to point-by-point quote today.


Stoic=/=bad. Stoic=boring. Especially when that stoicism doesn't go away or evolve in to something else.

Atton is a whiner. A griper. A complainer. He likes to b*tch. Actually this problem is probably due more to the voice actor--he just sounds like such an annoying prick, and the character suffered for it.

The stoicism gets old in the others, and the cryptic "I'm a bad guy OR AM I REALLY? but no I guess I am" Kreia is equally annoying.

I know it's Canderous. But it's just Canderous. He was never interesting, only badass. It's the same thing all over again, but they added in blackmail and Revan worship. It deflates his badassness, and adds nothing interesting.

I wasn't talking about Wookiee personalities. I just mean Wookiees per se. They bug me. Especially in the games where their voices are just re-used Chewbacca noises.

I'll 'spect dat shit when I have a reason to care about them. Risk your life, obey every command, follow me wherever I go on my personal quest, and don't even tell me about yourself because I haven't fit your paradigm. That doesn't make any sense, and I really think it was only done that way so the developers would have an excuse to use their new-fangled Influence System. "We added more choices to the game for the sake of it--call us better than BioWare!" Actually... come to think of it, I think they did the exact same thing with Fallout: New Vegas. Bethesda established a morality system in Fallout 3, and when Obsidian took over for the next game, they added an Influence/Faction system on top of the morality scale--except they rendered the morality in New Vegas completely obsolete. It only affected the end cut scene in small ways.

Huh... f*ckin Obsidian and their miserable one-up attempts (though New Vegas is still great).



Nihilus was also very boring. He had a good premise to him. As much as I hate Magic Superpowers in Star Wars, his was subtle enough to work in the game. They just never expound on it or give us any background. Same with Sion. They're just there to be cool looking villains, nothing more. Throw in some philosophical crap by Kreia and Visas to distract us and hope we don't notice that they're never explained.

You and me ares, we're like, done professionally.

Edit: Ninja'd