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Which of these movie villains had overall the best plan in accordance to the completion of their goals? This isn't a power contest or a prep war between them, but rather an examination of their strategy and how they adapted to their respective foil(s) before ultimately being defeated.

Bane (The Dark Knight Rises)
The Joker (The Dark Knight)
Ra's al Ghul (Batman Begins)
Lex Luthor (Donnerverse, ie. both Spacey and Hackman portrayals)
Mr. Freeze (Batman and Robin )
The Riddler (Batman Forever)
The Penguin (Batman Returns)
The Joker (Batman)
Loki (Thor/Avengers)
Red Skull (Captain America: The First Avenger)
Sebastian Shaw (X-Men: First Class)
The Lizard (The Amazing Spider-Man)
Magneto (X-Men Film Series)
Dr. Doom (Fantastic Four Series)
Green Goblin (Spider-Man)
Dr. Octopus (Spider-Man II)

Which villain also came the closest to their comic book counterpart's overall success ratio in terms of planning/plotting?

What about Talia

Originally posted by Golgo13
What about Talia

Deliberately left that person out for spoiler reasons. And if I added that person, I may as well add Thanos. Besides I think the party most associated with that character did plenty of hands on thinking and planning to stand on their own.

Can I please add one even though it's not technically comic-book oriented?

Goldfinger in the movie of the same name.

Was breaking into Fort Knox...

NOT to steal the gold, but to set off a nuclear device and irradiate the gold within, making it untouchable and taking it OFF the market... thereby making his own gold reserves skyrocket in value.

Brilliant.....too bad Bond got in the way.

^ That is a good plan, actually, but for this purposes of this thread I'm trying to keep it to the mainstream comic book movies and their comic book counterparts.

John Travolta

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
^ That is a good plan, actually, but for this purposes of this thread I'm trying to keep it to the mainstream comic book movies and their comic book counterparts.

I completely understand. It's just one of the most brilliant plots I've ever seen in a movie.... completely takes the hero and everyone else by surprise.

Going back to your list.....

Mr. Freeze's plan actually worked, since he got to continue his research (albeit from Arkham)

but it wasn't how he wanted it.

I go Loki.

His plan was working perfectly.. the only part that threw a major wrench into it was the unexpected selflessness of Tony Stark. Who woulda thought he would go into the portal and risk his life to destroy the alien mothership?

Otherwise, every other part of the plan, including his capture worked toward his goals (well, except for Hulk smacking him around like a dirty ho)

I think Loki's plan in Thor was actually a bit better than in the Avengers, but in terms of character development, it makes sense as he had nothing to lose after being beaten by Thor and faking his death.

I also think Ra's al Ghul's plan of cleansing Gotham was genius. He had no real flaws outside of underestimating the cause of the Wayne murders and failing to convince Bruce to join his crusade.

I don't even remember Doom's goals.

Stealing power for his own ends.

In the first movie, he wanted to depower Thing and use Reed's machine to augment his own powers and then kill off the F4.

In the second one, he wanted to take Surfer's board and cosmic powers for his own and kill the F4.

Ra's, Bane, Joker, Shaw. All four camed close to achieving there goals, and the only reason they failed was because they underestimate the Hero.

Bane being one of the biggest hero underestimation there was. Bane's and Talia's plan were flawless till the very end.

Bane actually caused a crap load of damage. Both to Bruce and the city.

And you can't really fault Bane's plan, and say he underestimated the Hero - when you break someone's back, then throw him into some hellhole half the world away, then kill the only guy in the world capable of defusing your nuke.... you can't really say that you haven't taken every precaution.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And you can't really fault Bane's plan, and say he underestimated the Hero - when you break someone's back, then throw him into some hellhole half the world away, then kill the only guy in the world capable of defusing your nuke.... you can't really say that you haven't taken every precaution. He could have killed Batman.

True.

But to me, Ra's was the man in the Nolanverse. Guy set the stage for everything to happen in the subsequent movies. He was definitely "immortal" in the sense Nolan was getting at.

Originally posted by Mindset
He could have killed Batman.

Batman didn't have his permission to die yet.

Jake, you have my permission to be my best friend in the whole wide world. cry

Originally posted by Mindset
Jake, you have my permission to be my best friend in the whole wide world. cry

ozymandias

Doom (2nd FF4 movie) from the list

Originally posted by Mindset
Jake, you have my permission to be my best friend in the whole wide world. cry

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs3/1808699_o.gif

Ozymandius!

Originally posted by ColossusGrundy
I go Loki.

His plan was working perfectly.. the only part that threw a major wrench into it was the unexpected selflessness of Tony Stark. Who woulda thought he would go into the portal and risk his life to destroy the alien mothership?

Otherwise, every other part of the plan, including his capture worked toward his goals (well, except for Hulk smacking him around like a dirty ho)

Loki's plan in Avengers was pretty awful TBH. The nuke would have stopped his army. His plan in Thor was far better.


All the Nolan Bat villains had good plans though. I'd argue Joker's was the best as the only reason he lost is because Batman and Gordon lied. By contrast, they never had to do this to foil Ra's and Bane's plans although, admittedly, both of their plans were far grander and larger in scope.

Samuel L. Jackson in Unbreakable and Ozymandias in The Watchmen, because they succeeded

Originally posted by ares834
Loki's plan in Avengers was pretty awful TBH. The nuke would have stopped his army. His plan in Thor was far better.


All the Nolan Bat villains had good plans though. I'd argue Joker's was the best as the only reason he lost is because Batman and Gordon lied. By contrast, they never had to do this to foil Ra's and Bane's plans although, admittedly, both of their plans were far grander and larger in scope. While the Joker caused lots of panic, I would say his plan failed the most horrible out of everyone's on the list.

He had everything set up for his plan to work with the ferries, and it wasn't Batman that stopped him.

In fact he was moments away from the making the big statement he had been wanting to make the entire movie. Yet his big attempt back fired and proved the exact opposite of what he wanted.

Everyone else on this list pretty much were getting what they wanted and only the hero beat them, and had it not been for the hero would have gotten exactly what they wanted.

Even if Batman didn't do anything the Joker still would have lost on principle by not getting what he wanted even though he would have killed everyone.

Sure, his ferry plot failed but his "ace in a hole" was a great success. The only reason he didn't win because of this was due to Batman and Gordan lying. Furthermore, it also forced Batman out of the game for eight years.

definitely bane.

he was the only villain who actually accomplished his goals for any length of time. he trounced batman like a weak feeb, and took control of gotham for, what? like 5 months? every other movie baddie on that list has been overcome with fairly rapid succession--and most of them didn't even achieve their goals.

Bane didn't achieve his ultimate goal either.

bane wanted control over gotham. he got it. the bomb was mainly used as leverage to help him retain said control. remember, they could have detonated that bomb at any time--they simply chose not to.

And besides, who'd have thought a broken back could be fixed by punching??

the punch was used to realign bruce's vertebra, as it was noticeably bulging from his spine. after it was back in place, he had to hold himself upright for god knows how long until it healed enough for him to start walking/training again.

Originally posted by Galan007
bane wanted control over gotham. he got it. the bomb was mainly used as leverage to help him retain said control. remember, they could have detonated that bomb at any time--they simply chose not to.

Nah, Bane wanted to destroy Gotham and fulfill Ra's al Ghul's destiny. He wanted control to "poison their souls with hope" basically Bane wanted to make them suffer. But the destruction of Gotham was what he ultimately wanted.

I know, I know, its just - you can see it from Bane's point of view, he'd pretty much taken as many precautions as he could, and still Batman came back.

Originally posted by ares834
Nah, Bane wanted to destroy Gotham and fulfill Ra's al Ghul's destiny. He wanted control to "poison their souls with hope" basically Bane wanted to make them suffer. But the destruction of Gotham was what he ultimately wanted. if the destruction of gotham is what bane truly wanted, he would have simply detonated the bomb right out of the gate. instead, as you mentioned, he wanted to take control of gotham and make its populace suffer... which he did... for several months. he also gave batman one of the worst cinematic-hero-beatings that i think i've ever seen. out of this list bane had the best plan, because his plans actually came into fruition for a good length of time.

my opinion.

Originally posted by ares834
Sure, his ferry plot failed but his "ace in a hole" was a great success. The only reason he didn't win because of this was due to Batman and Gordan lying. Furthermore, it also forced Batman out of the game for eight years. There's no guarantee his ace in the hole would have done any better in destroying the 'soul' of gotham and showing everyone gotham's true colors.

His main goal was to show when the chips are done that civilized people will turn on each other, and they didn't.

At that moment he lost, and Batman didn't even have to lift a finger.

Originally posted by Galan007
if the destruction of gotham is what bane truly wanted, he would have simply detonated the bomb right out of the gate. instead, as you mentioned, he wanted to take control of gotham and make its populace suffer... which he did... for several months. he also gave batman one of the worst cinematic-hero-beatings that i think i've ever seen. out of this list bane had the best plan, because his plans actually came into fruition for a good length of time.

my opinion. I can agree with this

Originally posted by Newjak
There's no guarantee his ace in the hole would have done any better in destroying the 'soul' of gotham and showing everyone gotham's true colors.

His main goal was to show when the chips are done that civilized people will turn on each other, and they didn't.

At that moment he lost, and Batman didn't even have to lift a finger.

There really is. If it was revealed that Harvey was a lunatic the morale of the people would be all but destroyed. Furthermore, all the work they did would be unraveled as the criminals would be back on the streets.

And in this he somewhat succeeded. Sure the ferry plot was a bust, but in Harvey Dent he showed that people could be broken down to his level.

I'd go with lex . In superman 1 he beat supes and left him for dead and supes would have died if lexes girlfriend didnt save him, and his real estate/missile plan succeeded. Supes had to reverse time and undo Lexes victory.

Originally posted by Galan007
if the destruction of gotham is what bane truly wanted, he would have simply detonated the bomb right out of the gate. instead, as you mentioned, he wanted to take control of gotham and make its populace suffer... which he did... for several months. he also gave batman one of the worst cinematic-hero-beatings that i think i've ever seen. out of this list bane had the best plan, because his plans actually came into fruition for a good length of time.

my opinion.

Wasn't Bane simply "in love", wasn't that the actual reason behind his participation in all the mayhem?

I think Joker's plan was the most interesting and creatively executed. Bane's the most successfully executed.

Loki's plans were shite, both in Thor and in Avengers. The latter ridiculously bad planning - he was Thanos' henchmen and he didn't even comprehend how bad the situation was going to be for him.

The Chitauri were pisspoor soldiers, the Avengers were united by Loki's actions, rather than driven apart, Hulk beat the shit out of him (mocked him too) and he even gave away the one part of his plan that might have worked (getting everyone on board the helicarrier so that Hulk would kill them).

In Thor, he wasn't doing anything spectacularly clever, just that Thor & Co were (are?) dim and didn't see it coming from him.

He became all-father for a brief duration and ended up having to send The Destroyer after Thor ... which again shows a failing plan.

Loki's plan in Thor was great, actually. Given Thor's personality traits up until banishment, his machinations were all but guaranteed to succeed. Loki didn't and really couldn't account for the impact someone like Jane would have on Thor, leading to Thor learning humility and becoming "worthy" again.

Without Jane's involvement and influence on Thor, he likely would have remained an arrogant bastard and stayed stranded on Earth long enough for Loki to rule Asgard indefinitely or at least destroy Jotunheim completely.

Originally posted by janus77
I think Joker's plan was the most interesting and creatively executed. Bane's the most successfully executed. i can agree with this.

On the other hand...
Originally posted by Galan007
definitely bane.

he was the only villain who actually accomplished his goals for any length of time. he trounced batman like a weak feeb, and took control of gotham for, what? like 5 months? every other movie baddie on that list has been overcome with fairly rapid succession--and most of them didn't even achieve their goals. ..I'd like to have this discussion with you.

When you think about it in pure scale, sure, but in the end, which one of them was actually more effective? Joker absolutely destroyed Batman's life for 8 years, leaving him as broken shells of the men they once were, forced to live in a lie that rots them at their core. The love of Bruce's life died, as did his chance at a normal life. Harvey Dent - the very symbol of justice, of a good man, was irreversibly turned by Joker's schemes, to the point where he was about to kill Gordon's family, pushing Batman towards not only killing him, but having to take the blame for his fall, and destroying the very symbol of Batman by turning him into a homicidal maniac.

Bane physically broke Batman, sure. He took Gotham hostage. But how did it end? He was beaten. His plan was stopped. Not only that, but he was the one who finally exposed the truth regarding what happened that night with Batman/Dent. He inadvertently was the one who made Batman an eternal symbol for all the people in Gotham who sacrified himself so that they can live, aswell as inspiring Blake to take up the mantle, his war on crime, while he can finally have his peace with Selina.

Joker destroyed Bruce spiritually/mentally by destroying the two people that meant the most in their lives and fight on crime , aswell as managing to force the Batman symbol into being the exact opposite of what it was supposed to be, what it was supposed to inspire.

Bane destroyed Bruce physically, but his actions made Bruce be reborn spiritually, coming back and making himself an everlasting symbol for the people, and then retiring for the peace he was always looking for, while a new person inspired by Bruce takes up his fight on crime.

Joker tore down both Bruce and Batman, while Bane's actions ended with Bruce turning Batman into what he wished it to be, whie at the same time finding his peace with Selina. I really don't see that as Bane being a more successful villain.

Dude, wtf. Stop bashing.

Ok, I edited that out.

Thank you.

That reminds me shouldnt Bruce have back problems for the rest of his life? He should easily be in Larry Bird territory.

Originally posted by Mindset
Jake, you have my permission to be my best friend in the whole wide world. cry
You're :
http://michaelvuke.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/forever-alone.jpg

Where's Ozymandias ?

Guys, please use spoiler tags when talking about TDKR.

Originally posted by Raptor22
I'd go with lex . In superman 1 he beat supes and left him for dead and supes would have died if lexes girlfriend didnt save him, and his real estate/missile plan succeeded. Supes had to reverse time and undo Lexes victory.



Plus he created Nuclear Man.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
You're :
http://michaelvuke.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/forever-alone.jpg You're incapable of being funny.

Or doing basic math.

The part of Joker's plan and a big part of why Philo is support Jokers plan.. .was turning batman into the opposite of what it was suppose to be seen as.. Wasn't even part of his plan.. The people never saw Dent in the light that the Joker wanted him seen in.. So that part of his plan failed.. and the symbol thing was only due to another part of his plan failing again. So I'm not sure how that is viewed as his plan working...

Originally posted by Mindset
You're incapable of being funny.

Or doing basic math.
You reek of butthurt .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
You reek of butthurt . You're still mad that I win every encounter we have.

Originally posted by Mindset
You're still mad that I win every encounter we have.
You're still butthurt .

This throne of gold is uncomfortable.

But I am your God.

Now bow.

Originally posted by Mindset
This throne of gold is uncomfortable.

But I am your God.

Now bow.
If you forgot who you're talking to , let me remind you that I am the TheGodKiller .

Read my sig to better understand who I am and what I am .

And then tremble in fear .

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll36/Bigsteve87/Gifs/DidntReadLolYellowShirt.gif

I win again.

Tremble with antici..........pation more like.

Nope .