Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Pre Dcn-u WW versus Extremis IM....no lasso, bracers, tiara for the lady.


Who wins?

No bracers?

Originally posted by -Pr-
No bracers?

Nope but she still has her high herald level speed, strength, and reflexes

Split.

Diana tears Tony out of the suit and tells him he should stop drinking.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Diana tears Tony out of the suit and tells him he should stop drinking. she'd be too scared to act aggressive towards a guy with guns, her being a glass cannon and all

She's far from a glass canon. And she has the grit to keep going even if somehow he managed to really hurt her and once she gets a hand on him it's game over. One time Circe had a sphere of magical flame protecting her that burned Diana's skin off leaving only the skeleton of her arm left and she still pushed through to throttle her.

Oversized sheets. On Ultra King sized beds. At the moment, I want one of those in every room of my dream house.
Not being carnal now, thinking instead of how that would capture the "Whee!" feeling of being a kid again, and everything in the world being SO ridiculously big and wonderful and ready-to-explore.

I'm thinking the mattresses would be too big to fit through the average doorway, however. So I'm thinking now, there must be some style of bed, that, shipping container like, fits together small units, of whatever number one desires, into a large quadrangle shape, however big you want it.


How big the sheets comes right after that.

If they're too big, they wouldn't fit into a washing machine. You'd have to have an oversized version of washing machine to handle that much cloth. I suddenly wonder how they ever washed the sails of sailboats back in the days, if indeed they did.
If they had a solution to that problem, though, it would then make sense that you find so much material, so many layered blankets on cottage house style beds. I mean, if you can find a solution to washing all the cloth that comprises ... what ... a hundred square feet of sail for a Nantucket ship? Then any amount of cloth you'd need washed for household use is trivial.

But I sure would like to know how they actually did it if they did.

..........the ****.....

Ikr weird

You've never gone off-topic?
I got bored and decided to check out the website of Better Homes and Gardens for the first time this morning.

(They've got a quiz you can take to discover your home-style preferences...)


Back to the subject at hand, though.


Were this conversation being held in the 1990s, especially during the William Messner Loebs era, I would agree with the poster who called Wondy a glass cannon.
I looked that term up on TV Tropes, and, for early 1990s-Wonder Woman, even a great deal of 1980s Perez Wonder Woman, it fits.
Great physical strength, low durability.
Fairly accurate as a description for many versions of the early post-Crisis character.

However ...

.... Wonder Woman didn't stay that way.

John Bynre saw to that initially, and subsequent writers from Mark Waid and Greg Rucka to Gail Simone have attended to increasing her durability over the years.

I didn't realize how great the need was till participating in the Superman versus Wonderwoman thread that was closed in June.
A poster there showed me Wonder Woman actually bleeding from grabbing hold of her lasso and resisting the weight of people, including herself, being pulled into a magically or physically created vortex.
Wasn't extraordinarily powerful to gauge from collateral damage either. Wasn't even enough force to dislodge a street sign from its mooring. Ridiculously low and damning for the top-tier she would become known for being in recent years. Fact, think I'll spend a moment reviewing that thread and see if I can't find that scene. It's a pretty striking contrast to the Diana we knew just before the reboot.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
You've never gone off-topic?
I got bored and decided to check out the website of Better Homes and Gardens for the first time this morning.

(They've got a quiz you can take to discover your home-style preferences...)


Back to the subject at hand, though.


Were this conversation being held in the 1990s, especially during the William Messner Loebs era, I would agree with the poster who called Wondy a glass cannon.
I looked that term up on TV Tropes, and, for early 1990s-Wonder Woman, even a great deal of 1980s Perez Wonder Woman, it fits.
Great physical strength, low durability.
Fairly accurate as a description for many versions of the early post-Crisis character.

However ...


U went waaaayyyyy left field

However.....? Her blunt force durability is fine, or rather always has been, it was her slashing stabbing durability that sucked iirc.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
blunt force durability is fine, or rather always has been, it was her slashing stabbing durability that sucked iirc.


Wonder Woman's durability has been her most inconsistent trait from WAY back in the day. It's not something new.

Nevertheless, the post-Crisis trend following Byrne has been to increase it. It was weaker before him in all areas, though, not just to specifically "sharp" objects.

Witness the following, which I relocated from the thread I mentioned awhile ago, originally posted by a forum participant named Delta1938 in his photobucket account:



(Scan 1 of 6)

Messner Loebs Diana versus Black Hole.
Rope friction from questionable force cuts in this day.


Scan 2 of 6.

Messner Loebs Diana versus Black Hole.
Rope friction from questionable force cuts in this day.


Scan 3 of 6.

Messner Loebs Diana versus Black Hole.
Rope friction from questionable force cuts in this day.


Scan 4 of 6.

Messner Loebs Diana versus Black Hole.
Rope friction from questionable force cuts in this day.


Scan 5 of 6.

Messner Loebs Diana versus Black Hole.
Rope friction from questionable force cuts in this day.


Scan 6 of 6.

Doom Killer Black Hole ep. Ref Info:


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Wonder Woman #77, Volume 2
Writer: William Messner-Loebs
Penciller: Lee Moder
Date: August 1993
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Wonder_Woman_Vol_2_77

http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/razzatazz/reviews/?page=83

that was actually a phucked up depiction of a black hole. I mean shetethered the rope to a street sign, the civilians survived it just fine, it was just horribly written

Contrast now how Wondy is able to resist the rope friction of a black hole pull by early 2000, as opposed to early 1990-something, here in the Circle of Fire series.

Note that Martian Manhunter, and even Superman himself, cannot resist the pull of this particular black hole unaided.

But Diana is strong enough to do so.


No chafing of the hands like in the Messner-Loebs adventure from the effort, though.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Green Lantern: Circle of Fire #1, Volume 1
Writer: Brian K. Vaughan
Penciller: Norman Breyfogle
Date: October 2000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Green_Lantern:_Circle_of_Fire_Vol_1_1

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Contrast now how Wondy is able to resist the rope friction of a black hole pull by early 2000, as opposed to early 1990-something, here in the Circle of Fire series.

Note that Martian Manhunter, and even Superman himself, cannot resist the pull of this particular black hole unaided.

But Diana is strong enough to do so.


No chafing of the hands like in the Messner-Loebs adventure from the effort, though.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Green Lantern: Circle of Fire #1, Volume 1
Writer: Brian K. Vaughan
Penciller: Norman Breyfogle
Date: October 2000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Green_Lantern:_Circle_of_Fire_Vol_1_1

Clark seemed fine to me, I think he was gonna jump in there and save mm but the gl stopped him

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Clark seemed fine to me, I think he was gonna jump in there and save mm but the gl stopped him


Glad you can believe that then, 'cause I can't. Not in THAT particular era, where every other writer was making a point to say Manhunter was the equal or superior of Superman, even to the point of several characters calling him the most powerful JLA member, including Superman himself.


But that misses the point in relation to this thread regardless, and that is that early post-Crisis Wonder Woman WAS a "glass cannon", or at any rate had low durability, just as gundam asserted a few posts earlier.

The Diana of the early 90s would not have been able to withstand any significant attack from Extremis Iron Man.
Or any Iron Man, for that matter.
Certainly not without equipment shielding.

But early 90s Wonder Woman is not what we had just prior to the reboot. THAT particular Wonder Woman demonstrated strength and durability on another level entirely.

Dunno, I just don't see it but like I said its all subjective.

IMO Diana would be hard pressed to but down stark sans, its not like her powerset is unique

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Dunno, I just don't see it but like I said its all subjective.

IMO Diana would be hard pressed to but down stark sans, its not like her powerset is unique


Comics aren't hard and fast physics, so I'll accept this, but not without saying that I've found, and continue to find, that people make an incredible amount of excuses for Superman coming short in any particular case, far above and beyond what they seem to for any other character.

That characterizes many of the fans here, it extends to at least one of the moderators, and it does so to a degree I've not found on any other board that discusses comic books.
I'm really beginning to wonder what the deal is here.

2 people before you, for instance, tried to convince me that, yes, Superman was weaker against that black hole than Wonder Woman, but it was ... it was ... it was, uhm ... because that villain Oblivion created a miniature red sun! Yes, Oblivion created a miniature red sun ...!

Well, they're partially right.
That part actually DOES happen in the comic.
They're right that Oblivion eventually conjures a mini red-sun to combat Superman.

Unfortunately, THAT happens AFTER this scene we've been discussing with the black hole, and after the black hole has largely been abandoned and allowed to peter out by Oblivion as an attack against the heroes ...

Excuse me?

After THAT scene, which follows the initial black hole I showed you, THEN we are introduced to Oblivion creating a miniature red sun to weaken Superman ...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Comics aren't hard and fast physics, so I'll accept this, but not without saying that I've found, and continue to find, that people make an incredible amount of excuses for Superman coming short in any particular case, far above and beyond what they seem to for any other character.

That characterizes many of the fans here, it extends to at least one of the moderators, and it does so to a degree I've not found on any other board that discusses comic books.
I'm really beginning to wonder what the deal is here.

2 people before you, for instance, tried to convince me that, yes, Superman was weaker against that black hole than Wonder Woman, but it was ... it was ... it was, uhm ... because that villain Oblivion created a miniature red sun! Yes, Oblivion created a miniature red sun ...!

Well, they're partially right.
That part actually DOES happen in the comic.
They're right that Oblivion eventually conjures a mini red-sun to combat Superman.

Unfortunately, THAT happens AFTER this scene we've been discussing with the black hole, and after the black hole has largely been abandoned and allowed to peter out by Oblivion as an attack against the heroes ...

Im lost are u saying he was weakened?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Im lost are u saying he was weakened?


Let me ask this of you: Do you see the scene differently now if you think Superman WAS weakened?

I've been lost ever since the bedsheets post.

BWR, what exactly is your point? You talk in circles.

I think Superman > Wonder Woman. However, I think Wonder Woman is close enough to his stats that with her equipment it usually makes it a fair fight. I don't view her as a glass cannon - I view her blunt force durability pretty high - it's her piercing durability that has had problems, IMO

As for the Circle of Fire comic, I didn't see that as Superman falling victim to the black hole - I saw him diving to help Martian Manhunter with Green Lantern as an anchor. MM might be just as powerful (IMO, well written, considering all the powers he has at his disposal, he should be more powerful). Remember that this was not a Justice League comic, but a Green Lantern one. Characters tend to act differently in different series and power levels shift.

On the topic of Wonder Woman vs Iron Man, I usually see Wonder Woman winning that battle. However, without her equipment it makes the fight much more interesting. I think Iron Man has dealt with enough bricks to be able to hang onto an even 50-50 here - if he gets creative and uses his more versatile tricks, then a definite 6-7/10 in his favor.

Okay, where has she had piercing durability problems in the last 20 years? Give me one non-magically enhanced instance of piercing.

Originally posted by Konton
Okay, where has she had piercing durability problems in the last 20 years? Give me one non-magically enhanced instance of piercing.

I don't think he meant that her piercing durability was weak, just that it wasn't as impressive as her blunt-force durability.

Based on what? When has she been pierced or cut?

Originally posted by Konton
Okay, where has she had piercing durability problems in the last 20 years? Give me one non-magically enhanced instance of piercing.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't think he meant that her piercing durability was weak, just that it wasn't as impressive as her blunt-force durability.



Not that it matters, but my reasoning was based on her need to block things like bullets. I may be wrong, and I'd gladly change my perspective on the matter, but her need to block bullets as opposed to tank them like Superman just makes me assume her piercing durability is not as high as her ability to take a punch.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
BWR, what exactly is your point? You talk in circles.


Circular routes get me to more of the places I am interested in seeing.


Originally posted by Blair Wind
I think Superman > Wonder Woman.


For the express purpose of this thread, taking on a special armor edition of Iron Man, I agree. Superman is far more innately suited to fighting Extremis than Diana is.


Originally posted by Blair Wind
I don't view as a glass cannon - I view her blunt force durability pretty high - it's her piercing durability that has had problems, IMO


Clarification on your part would be appreciated here.
Would laser-style blasts fall under the heading of "piercing" durability, for instance? What about bullets? Is Wonder Woman, in your mind, as vulnerable to these things as an average human would be, or is there a higher force and damage threshhold with her that needs to be passed? Could a .22 kill her? A .44 Magnum? Please be a little more specific about what you mean, what you're basing it on, and why it would matter for this fight.



Originally posted by Blair Wind

As for the Circle of Fire comic, I didn't see that as Superman falling victim to the black hole - I saw him diving to help Martian Manhunter with Green Lantern as an anchor.

But you're not thinking this through.
Why did Superman need GREEN LANTERN to anchor him in the first place?



Originally posted by Blair Wind

MM might be just as powerful (IMO, well written, considering all the powers he has at his disposal, he should be more powerful).

I agree.


Originally posted by Blair Wind
Remember that this was not a Justice League comic, but a Green Lantern one. Characters tend to act differently in different series and power levels shift.


This is true across the board since the creative staff that handles these characters varies constantly over time.

Originally posted by Blair Wind

On the topic of Wonder Woman vs Iron Man, I usually see Wonder Woman winning that battle. However, without her equipment it makes the fight much more interesting.

LARGELY agree ...


Originally posted by Blair Wind
I think Iron Man has dealt with enough bricks to be able to hang onto an even 50-50 here - if he gets creative and uses his more versatile tricks, then a definite 6-7/10 in his favor.


Disagree, but I haven't seen enough Extremis Iron Man to understand your point of view. Everything I've seen of Diana facing similar opponents tells me, assuming this is the standard type of semi-annual, city-wide ranging battle both Tony and Diana are wont to wage, that this is Wonder Woman's fight to decide.

At least if we're going with any serious post-2005 version of her character.


EARLY post-Crisis Diana?

Different story.

That was not a black hole to begin with and blue seems to forget the following page AGAIN. This is the full sequence of that scene
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/121014/2383700-glcircleoffire162mv_1__super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/56131/1442125-01_green_lantern_circle_of_fire_28_super.jpg
We see superman rushing and punching oblivion who was standing behind that "cosmic event", shrugging off any suction from that tunnel. Context actually matters sometime.

As for her piercing durability, here is mighty wonder woman dying from a bullet wound
http://i39.tinypic.com/ogkgm8.jpg

Was that a magical bullet, though?

Not that I recall. Oh and crucifer nearly killed her with a sword that broke on superman's arm.

Yea, there was a weird thing for a bit where she was high-level strength but could still be harmed by bullets (don't laugh- Thor once had that too), but she has gotten upgrades since (during an encounter with clayface), she's taken full auto gunfire without her skin being pierced.

Also here's her catching an enchanted spear wielded by a low-level superhuman foe without being cut.


That said, a good enchanted or super-tough sword wielded by someone who's super strong is one of the better ways to hurt her.

Though she is, of course, capable of handling a lot of damage and has a healing factor. Medusa impaling her only slowed her down a bit.

She blitzes him at 82 duodecillion times the speed of light

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, there was a weird thing for a bit where she was high-level strength but could still be harmed by bullets (don't laugh- Thor once had that too), but she has gotten upgrades since (during an encounter with clayface), she's taken full auto gunfire without her skin being pierced.

Also here's her catching an enchanted spear wielded by a low-level superhuman foe without being cut.


That said, a good enchanted or super-tough sword wielded by someone who's super strong is one of the better ways to hurt her.

Though she is, of course, capable of handling a lot of damage and has a healing factor. Medusa impaling her only slowed her down a bit.
She wasn't upgraded in clayface arc. She just took a piece of clay he had taken from her back restoring her to her original power from her donna level power. When has she taken gunfire? That scene was more like her stopping that spear by flat of the tip. She has also fled from arrows shot by amazo at her after her upgrades that never happened.

At the end she had a talk with Superman where she iirc said she felt stronger than ever.



JLA, a bunch of mooks from (HIVE? Cobra? One of those) got the drop on her and blasted her. I think it was during Batman's No Mans Land arc.



She has her fingers on the sharp edges.

Originally posted by Q99
At the end she had a talk with Superman where she iirc said she felt stronger than ever.



JLA, a bunch of mooks from (HIVE? Cobra? One of those) got the drop on her and blasted her. I think it was during Batman's No Mans Land arc.



She has her fingers on the sharp edges.
Means nothing.

You are wrong. That was soldiers of queen bee IIRC. You realize that No man's land happened in 99 and diana was explicitly not bulletproof then.

She stopped the spear's momentum by the palm of her hand. Her fingers wouldn't cut unless she slides them on the edge.

So, back when she was explicitly not bulletproof, she was unpierced by a lot of bullets?



Not the way she grabbed it.

Originally posted by Q99
So, back when she was explicitly not bulletproof, she was unpierced by a lot of bullets?



It's important to remember that was is generally true for an era is only what is GENERALLY true for an era; not ALWAYS true.

Worth considering who is writing a particular story, too, at least to some extent.

On the thematic level, it actually makes sense in-story that Diana would have variable durability. Her power is god-granted, not truly innate, in most depictions. As they go up in power, it makes sense that she would; ditto for the reverse. Certainly it proves difficult to make sense of her vulnerabilies and ascribe coherent reason to it any other way.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
It's important to remember that was is generally true for an era is only what is GENERALLY true for an era; not ALWAYS true.

Worth considering who is writing a particular story, too, at least to some extent.

Quite.



Oh yea, that also reminds me- one other thing about the bullet wound in the scan where she was wounded - it came from Devastation who has deific powers when it comes to striking for the kill.

So, still a bullet, but not exactly normal.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, there was a weird thing for a bit where she was high-level strength but could still be harmed by bullets (don't laugh- Thor once had that too)

As did Aquaman, so yeah, she's in good company.

Random question, useful for this thread:

Anyone got any scans of Legends of the DC Universe #4?

I own the book and have a few pre-scanned items of my own on my hard drive. In fact, the scene I have scanned is of Wonder Woman getting shot by an out-of-control police officer.

Those aren't the images I want. I plan to post THOSE here before the night is over; will serve as a good illustration of the "glass" aspect of Diana under Messner-Loebs.

No, what I'm trying to get are images that reflect the "cannon" portion.
I want scenes of the fight Diana has with the exo-suited gangmembers.

Because those powersuits smack directly of "Hulkbuster" Iron Man. And the episode shows what Diana was capable of doing to any metal construct this side of Marvel Adamantium, and that much long before her showcased planet-level feats in the latter JLA title.


Unfortunately, my scanner isn't doing what it was supposed to at the present time, and I don't really know if or when I'll be able to correct that.
So anyone who can supply those images in my stead has my thanks in advance.


Here's a link containing a synopsis to that story:
http://www.dcuguide.com/LotDCU/LotDCU_004.php


Here's what the book looks like:
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Legends_of_the_DC_Universe_Vol_1_4


Thank you for your time.

Honestly, Diana should just be bullet proof. I hate that stupid backwards "amazonian" durability PIS. Aquaman, too.

Thor being hurt by bullets but not tank shells is horrid writing, period.

You can make characters vulnerable and be placed in danger without giving them glaring physical vulnerabilities.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Honestly, Diana should just be bullet proof. I hate that stupid backwards "amazonian" durability PIS. Aquaman, too.

Thor being hurt by bullets but not tank shells is horrid writing, period.

You can make characters vulnerable and be placed in danger without giving them glaring physical vulnerabilities.

I think every company started to move away from it since it is, after all, just dumb and doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Q99
I think every company started to move away from it since it is, after all, just dumb and doesn't make sense.

I don't think it's any coincidence that in recent years we've seen those three characters get major upgrades in terms of their piercing durability.

Heck, Johns and JMS went out of their way to show it in Aquaman and Thor.

The fact that a simple bullet could even phase a man who travels in the crushing depths of the ocean is an affront to my intelligence.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The fact that a simple bullet could even phase a man who travels in the crushing depths of the ocean is an affront to my intelligence.



You can thank Peter David for doing away with Aquaman's low durability.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The fact that a simple bullet could even phase a man who travels in the crushing depths of the ocean is an affront to my intelligence.

It's not as nonsensical as you think.

Whales endure the crushing depths of the ocean, for instance.

If I remember right, they can dive to depths that will actually crush the average unprepared submarine.

Shoot them with a gun, though, and the bullet will pierce the whale's skin while doing variable damage beneath that (depending on where you aimed and with what, of course).


There are specific examples in the real world that reflect what comic writers were thinking of when they created the motifs that seem so strange to us now.

Legends of the DC Universe. Front Cover to issue #4 or 5.

.

crowd shield

police intervention ... AFTER crisis passes ...

bullet wound scene. isolate and narration elim.
Legends of the DC Universe #4.




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Legends of the DC Universe #4, Volume 1
Writer: William Messner-Loebs
Penciller: Mike Deodato, Jr.
Date: May 1998
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Legends_of_the_DC_Universe_Vol_1_4

Another spot of seeming randomness.

Link to article of superhero casting.
The guy did an uncanny job of picking some people even though this is 2 years ago ...


http://www.comicbookmovie.com/news/?a=17220

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
It's not as nonsensical as you think.

Whales endure the crushing depths of the ocean, for instance.

If I remember right, they can dive to depths that will actually crush the average unprepared submarine.

Shoot them with a gun, though, and the bullet will pierce the whale's skin while doing variable damage beneath that (depending on where you aimed and with what, of course).


There are specific examples in the real world that reflect what comic writers were thinking of when they created the motifs that seem so strange to us now.

yes, but aquaman isn't built like a whale. animals that can go that deep, do so because their bodies are biologically adapted to do so, with their bodies making sure that air pressure and the like doesn't kill them.

Aquaman has been stated as simply being tough enough to survive at those depths, not that it's a natural biological function.

Then there's his massive super strength. To be that strong, he'd need the kind of dense musculature that deep-sea creatures lack, which creates another problem, as strength and durability are almost always linked on a core level.

BWR, if you use a service like tinypic.com, imageshack.com, etc you could upload all those photo's as links. It would make it easier to just have one post of links than 5 of a single image.

You can even put in several pictures in thumbnail view if you simply like people to see the images.

Originally posted by -Pr-
yes, but aquaman isn't built like a whale. animals that can go that deep, do so because their bodies are biologically adapted to do so, with their bodies making sure that air pressure and the like doesn't kill them.

Aquaman has been stated as simply being tough enough to survive at those depths, not that it's a natural biological function.

Then there's his massive super strength. To be that strong, he'd need the kind of dense musculature that deep-sea creatures lack, which creates another problem, as strength and durability are almost always linked on a core level.


No offense, P.R., but, you speak a language I do not understand and find it difficult to follow and relate to.

You tell me Aquaman does not have natural biological function to survive underwater, yet most reading experience to date tells me he is SO tied to the sea that he must return to water every day, often in as little as an hour, or he will die.
You tell me he has "massive super strength", yet in contest with the person most like him, Marvel Comics' Sub Mariner, Namor, he must resort to sneak attack by an Orca, of all things, to stand a fighting chance against the mutant.
He virtually disappears against the heavy-hitters on any given JLA comic, resorting to story-specific magic or special mental tricks, such as when he manages to give a White Martian the equivalent of a seizure with a telepathic attack in New World Order.
He relies on Wonder Woman to free him from the wreck of an undersea ship searching for gold.
(The episode escapes my memory for a moment but Arthur admits in the same scenario that, for all his supposed annoyance with Diana, he wants her so badly he can hardly stand to be around her. No joke.)

I don't see what's so "massive" about Aquaman at all, lest we're talking about the companions he can summon to aid him in a fight.

You talk about things as if they are common knowledge that relatively few people are actually in the know about.

As for "strength and durability are almost always linked on a core level" ... ? You won't find too many long term Wonder Woman readers that can agree with that one. Not to the extent that YOU seem to believe, certainly.
That's actually one reason I'm taking the time to illustrate that, yes, in the past, Wonder Woman WAS a "glass cannon" as some poster on page 1 or 2 called her.
But that didn't equal "Wonder Woman is weak" in the past.
And the low durability isn't something that stayed to the end of her pre-reboot run, either.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
No offense, P.R., but, you speak a language I do not understand and find it difficult to follow and relate to.

You tell me Aquaman does not have natural biological function to survive underwater, yet most reading experience to date tells me he is SO tied to the sea that he must return to water every day, often in as little as an hour, or he will die.
You tell me he has "massive super strength", yet in contest with the person most like him, Marvel Comics' Sub Mariner, Namor, he must resort to sneak attack by an Orca, of all things, to stand a fighting chance against the mutant.
He virtually disappears against the heavy-hitters on any given JLA comic, resorting to story-specific magic or special mental tricks, such as when he manages to give a White Martian the equivalent of a seizure with a telepathic attack in New World Order.
He relies on Wonder Woman to free him from the wreck of an undersea ship searching for gold.
(The episode escapes my memory for a moment but Arthur admits in the same scenario that, for all his supposed annoyance with Diana, he wants her so badly he can hardly stand to be around her. No joke.)

I don't see what's so "massive" about Aquaman at all, lest we're talking about the companions he can summon to aid him in a fight.

You talk about things as if they are common knowledge that relatively few people are actually in the know about.

As for "strength and durability are almost always linked on a core level" ... ? You won't find too many long term Wonder Woman readers that can agree with that one. Not to the extent that YOU seem to believe, certainly.
That's actually one reason I'm taking the time to illustrate that, yes, in the past, Wonder Woman WAS a "glass cannon" as some poster on page 1 or 2 called her.
But that didn't equal "Wonder Woman is weak" in the past.
And the low durability isn't something that stayed to the end of her pre-reboot run, either.

Him having to remain out of water for less than an hour is an out-dated condition that hasn't effected him since the late 80s. Peter David even made fun of it in his books.

Crossovers aren't really sufficient evidence, and Aquaman does have feats of strength in the dozens, if not hundreds of tons in weight.

Disappears? When was this? The Martian was stronger than he was. I can cite numerous examples of Arthur being as much of a contributor as any of his teammates in JLA battles.

No. Arthur wasn't trapped in the undersea ship, if it's the example I think you're referring to. He had been trapped when the cavern collapsed around him, and needed someone stronger than him (which Diana is), to pull him out.

Nice that you make a comment about him wanting her, when she's exhibited the same attraction towards him, especially when he saved her life when they were teens.

Wonder Woman has, for years now, had incredibly high levels of blunt force durability, something that wasn't always true of Aquaman. When he got his upgrade in the early 90s, that was rectified to an extent.

Honestly, you don't seem like a troll or a spammer, but seriously, you're going to have to start reading the material, AND making less personal comments about members of the forum.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
BWR, if you use a service like tinypic.com, imageshack.com, etc you could upload all those photo's as links. It would make it easier to just have one post of links than 5 of a single image.

You can even put in several pictures in thumbnail view if you simply like people to see the images.



The problem with using outside image host providers like the companies you mention Blair, is that, besides registration hassles, you run the risk of losing your information (the pictures) in about 5 different ways.

I know.

I've experienced most of them.

Virtually every major poster who has been on this board more than a year has probably experienced the same thing.
Check out the following for a concrete example of what I'm talking about. Dawsey's "Wonder Woman Respect Thread", once a resource equal to something DarkCrawler himself might create.
Now, sadly, a virtual wasteland of broken links:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t362733.html


Contrast that to the annoying but enduring quality of KMC uploaded pictures. Only a major revamp of the system itself or the actual closing of KMC itself is likely to remove anything posted here for the benefit of fans.

A stability the others you mentioned can't promise.


Thank you for the suggestion, though.

I use photobucket for all of mine, and it's pretty stable.

I use photobucket and never have problems unless I hit bandwidth, which almost *never* happens and isn't really an issue for posting ref pics here.



I'll note during the WML run, where she's definitely pretty vulnerable to piercing and such... she still fought a Daxamite.

It was a weird time, durability wise.

Originally posted by Q99
I use photobucket and never have problems unless I hit bandwidth, which almost *never* happens and isn't really an issue for posting ref pics here.

I'll note during the WML run, where she's definitely pretty vulnerable to piercing and such... she still fought a Daxamite.

It was a weird time, durability wise.


Any chance you've got the Legends of the DC Universe issue I referred to earlier?
That particular book was also a William Messner-Leobs (WML) project, and I'd really like to post some more images of it here if possible.

Again, the opponents Diana fights in LoDCU#4 are fairly analagous to "Hulk Buster" Iron Man, and illustrate just how strong Diana has proven herself to be, even during her youngest start-up days, against armored fighters.

Nope. The WML stuff needs to be re-collected IMO (or collected in the instances where it hasn't been, like the Space Arc), it's fairly hard to snag.

P.R., thanks for responding to my P.M.


With my only immediately pressing concern with you addressed for the present, let me respond to the rest of what you wrote now.


Originally posted by -Pr-
having to remain out of water for less than an hour is an out-dated condition that hasn't affected him since the late 80s. Peter David even made fun of it in his books.


Fair enough, but, is this something the casual non-Aquaman-reading fan will be thoroughly aware of? For that matter, while it lasted, decades into the comics, other media, and several iterations of the character, it certainly smacked of specifically physical adaptation to the water.


Originally posted by -Pr-
Peter David even made fun of it in his books...


PAD is a bit of a Metal Age revisionist. He made fun of Supergirl's formerly planet-moving level of power in Many Happy Returns, too.
I was actually going to use him as an example of how a DC writer can arbitrarily decide to limit or empower a character contrary to prior portrayals. Difficult for all but the most expansive of in-story mythos ... i? (Mythosi?) to accomodate that ...


Wonder Woman's mythos, however (being empowered and depowered at will by capricious gods), is inherently more flexible toward drastic change than nearly any other character in comics.




Originally posted by -Pr-

Crossovers aren't really sufficient evidence, and Aquaman does have feats of strength in the dozens, if not hundreds of tons in weight.


I have knowledge of few, if any, of these.
I doubt your average comic fan does, either. I would assert, in fact, that the average professional comic book writer does not have such knowledge either, else Namor versus Aquaman would have been written as a more equal engagment.

Not saying that's the way it should be, mind you, just the way it probably is.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I can cite numerous examples of Arthur being as much of a contributor as any of his teammates in JLA battles.


Aquaman winning a brawl-style engagement or performing some task useful to resolving a story that involved obvious great physical strength is what is required to be convincing here.

Originally posted by -Pr-

Honestly, you don't seem like a troll or a spammer, but seriously, you're going to have to start reading the material ...


I do have to say that I thought THIS portion of your message was a bit unfair.

Aquaman is actually quite foreign and off-topic to what the original poster originally intended to be discussed in this thread.

Title of this thread being what it is and all, you'd expect, ideally, that participants would either know about Wonder Woman, know about Iron Man, or know about both characters and what they can and cannot do.

Knowledge of Aquaman? Not such an obvious pre-requisite.
I'd expect anyone introducing HIM into this thread to be prepared to give reasons why he's relevant and supply at least a little background knowledge to other readers.


Especially when I tried to bridge the gap with the following offering:

"There are specific examples in the real world that reflect what comic writers were thinking of when they created the motifs that seem so strange to us now ..."


That statement connects Aquaman to Wonder Woman in terms of this thread. Extensive Aquaman knowledge beyond that you should expect people to question and ask you to defend and explain the relevancy of. They're not just going to know it just because.




Having said all that ... any chance YOU'VE got some images of the armor battle in Legends of the DC Universe #4 ...?

Very annoying having this stuff and currently being unable to upload it for people ...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I do have to say that I thought THIS portion of your message was a bit unfair.

Aquaman is actually quite foreign and off-topic to what the original poster originally intended to be discussed in this thread.

Title of this thread being what it is and all, you'd expect, ideally, that participants would either know about Wonder Woman, know about Iron Man, or know about both characters and what they can and cannot do.

Knowledge of Aquaman? Not such an obvious pre-requisite.
I'd expect anyone introducing HIM into this thread to be prepared to give reasons why he's relevant and supply at least a little background knowledge to other readers.


Especially when I tried to bridge the gap with the following offering:

"There are specific examples in the real world that reflect what comic writers were thinking of when they created the motifs that seem so strange to us now ..."


That statement connects Aquaman to Wonder Woman in terms of this thread. Extensive Aquaman knowledge beyond that you should expect people to question and ask you to defend and explain the relevancy of. They're not just going to know it just because.




Having said all that ... any chance YOU'VE got some images of the armor battle in Legends of the DC Universe #4 ...?

Very annoying having this stuff and currently being unable to upload it for people ...

i wasn't trying to be mean, so if you felt like it was unfair, my apologies.

Yes, i know that too.

if you'll remember, you were the one who started getting in to detail about Aquaman; I was merely talking about his similarity to Wonder Woman as regards flexible durability.

I can find it. What was the issue again?

Originally posted by -Pr-

I can find it. What was the issue again?



Ref Info once again, including Wikia link:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Legends of the DC Universe #4, Volume 1
Writer: William Messner-Loebs
Penciller: Mike Deodato, Jr.
Date: May 1998
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Legends_of_the_DC_Universe_Vol_1_4





And the scenes I'm most interested in are Diana tearing the suit off of one of her combatants and crushing the cannon of the same or other. Anything beyond that is gravy.

Thank you in advance for your time.

This what you're talking about?

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12765718_Leg4WW-14_15.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12765722_Leg4WW-16.jpg

That's it exactly!


Thank you, P.R.!

Video of a TRUE young "Wonder Woman" ...

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/48449955/ns/today-good_news/


(Lauren Kornacki)

Originally posted by -Pr-
This what you're talking about?

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12765718_Leg4WW-14_15.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12765722_Leg4WW-16.jpg

Those are horrible mecha designs! I mean, they've got plenty of armor, a good amount of gun, that's fine... then they have totally exposed heads without so much as a helmet or bulletproof glass cover!

It's from the Lex Luthor school of power-suit design.

They just forgot the forcefields.

Diana rips Tony a new one.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It's from the Lex Luthor school of power-suit design.

They just forgot the forcefields.

Yea, the forcefields are... kinda important!

Got about 10 images I felt should go here.

These first 2 demonstrate the power and ruthlessness of Perez Diana when dealing with non human opponents ...

Limited relevance and application to this particular thread save the ruthless aspect.

Perez Diana kills the first Cottus, scan 2 of 2 from Wonder Woman Volume 2.

This image is merely that of a cover.

The reason it is included, however, is to point out that, if it WERE necessary for her to shield herself against Tony's lasers or other attacks, she is strong enough and swift enough to use suitable material from the environment as makeshift protection or offensive weaponry.

It's worth mentioning that Diana has demonstrated the ability to bola at least one object (the Philosopher's stone in Mark Waid's The Brave and the Bold run) all the way from Earth to the Sun. To a person in her strength class, it's not going to be hard for her to throw just about anything she wants into or even through Tony (though she's not wont to do anything that extreme under any normal circumstance), to say little of how far she could simply remove Tony from the field of battle if she wanted.

At any rate, the point of the image of this post, again, is to point out that she can shield herself by grabbing, uprooting, lifting, etcetera, objects in the nearby environment, much as here she grabs a tank and uses it as a shield against another tank trying to shoot her from behind.

I don't know where the following is from.

I suspect it is Justice League International, circa 1990s or some such.

Including this because it seems reflective of how metal constructs or metal suit shielded beings do against Diana on average.


Wonder Woman versus "Cyber", as Guy Gardner looks on ...


By the way, if there's anyone in the know, I'd appreciate learning where this was featured.)

Iron Man versus Doc Ock.

Marvel Fanfare #22 or #23.

An instance of Tony's suit being pulled apart by someone with a lot less strength than Diana herself possesses.

Well that's not his nanite suit.......

Originally posted by SasuOna
Well that's not his nanite suit.......

Exactly

Quite right.

There's a picture near-perfect model of Diana dealing with people wearing super-nanite suits I've got ready at the waiting, too, but, for now, in lieu of the original poster specifying exactly what she had in mind, I'm going with the original poster thinking Extremis is like a sleeker design of Hulkbuster armor.

Indeed, no one before you has given even a hint they believe Extremis to be something other than specialized "Hulkbuster"; it made sense to begin with THAT premise and allow someone else to post images or episodes of Tony using the real thing.

Then, too, the only detail Extremis being nanite changes, IF it doesn't behave like standard metal, is that Diana would need to use a middle step to take that suit off him. In the meantime, though, finishing with the idea of a Hulkbuster/Extremis mix-up by posting the other 5 scans alluded to:

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Quite right.

There's a picture near-perfect model of Diana dealing with people wearing super-nanite suits I've got ready at the waiting, too, but, for now, in lieu of the original poster specifying exactly what she had in mind, I'm going with the original poster thinking Extremis is like a sleeker design of Hulkbuster armor.

Indeed, no one before you has given even a hint they believe Extremis to be something other than specialized "Hulkbuster"; it made sense to begin with THAT premise and allow someone else to post images or episodes of Tony using the real thing.

Then, too, the only detail Extremis being nanite changes, IF it doesn't behave like standard metal, is that Diana would need to use a middle step to take that suit off him. In the meantime, though, finishing with the idea of a Hulkbuster/Extremis mix-up by posting the other 5 scans alluded to:


What r u alluding too bwr? The extremis armor can't be dissected like that

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Exactly


And, typical of the reality of posting on a forum with lag time and people posting at random, you, aka "original poster", responded while I was typing the reply just sent.

Why did you wait so long to clarify or bring up this objection?


No matter.

Nothing significant changes concerning what I just said.

The remainder of the 10, #7 ...

#8 ...

#9 ...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
And, typical of the reality of posting on a forum with lag time and people posting at random, you, aka "original poster", responded while I was typing the reply just sent.

Why did you wait so long to clarify or bring up this objection?


No matter.

Nothing significant changes concerning what I just said.

The remainder of the 10, #7 ...


U have a bone to pick bwr? Im not really following what arguments or points your attempting to pass as consensus. Speak plainly please

... and 10.


Thanks once more due to P.R., who surely at some point has posted a scan in threads in this forum, but who I've yet to see do so.

Save here. He posted one just for me! Actually, two!

No, seriously man, thanks for that -- you have NO idea how absolutely frustrating it is to know you have something perfect for show-and-tell and not be able to show it because your at-home uploading system isn't working right.

After battling for a little bit stark smooth talks Diana and takes her back to stark tower to have a few drinks. Ahh yeah, is there anything he cant do?!

Originally posted by Sin I AM
U have a bone to pick bwr? Im not really following what arguments or points your attempting to pass as consensus. Speak plainly please


A bone to pick?

I've never interacted with you before this thread to my knowledge, so you and I don't have any personal grievances that I know about.


I don't understand your "attempting to pass as consensus" phrase either.

It's typical for people to post a picture or description of the participants, discuss in an least general terms what they think they can or should be able to do, describe specific traits useful for attack or defense, basic strategy, etcetera.
If someone posts something that seems to misunderstand the basic nature of the participants, the thread starter usually corrects that person early on.
You did not do much if any of this, leading me to believe that you were one of the posters seeking answers as to what each character could do. In other words, it appeared that you wanted to learn about the characters in ADDITION to wanting to know people's opinion on how a match-up would go between them.

Lol I didn't think I needed to break it down Barney-style for you hun its a pretty simply subject.

There was an argument in a different thread that stated that even without gear WW would be at high herald level. O disagreed stating that sans equipment she would at best be low herald and decided to test this theory against extremis im who IMO is the pinnacle of the high meta class just before you cross over into herald range.

There wasn't a need to post a picture, the fights pretty much easy to grasp

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Lol I didn't think I needed to break it down Barney-style for you hun its a pretty simply subject.

There was an argument in a different thread that stated that even without gear WW would be at high herald level. O disagreed stating that sans equipment she would at best be low herald and decided to test this theory against extremis im who IMO is the pinnacle of the high meta class just before you cross over into herald range.

There wasn't a need to post a picture, the fights pretty much easy to grasp


Easy to grasp? I still haven't figured out who you think would win or why, what you're basing your opinion on, what Tony will actually be able to do to hurt Diana, or even what you think Extremis has done to give you such a high opinion of it.

Give me an idea of where you're coming from.


On the Iron Man side:

Who did Extremis fight? How did this encounter prove Extremis was greater than any other Stark armor?

On the Wonder Woman side:

Excepting this newest 2012 version, what is the most recent magazine you've read featuring Wonder Woman? What's the highest level opponent that particular Wonder Woman faced that you personally read?
As precisely as possible, exactly what Wonder Woman (year and author would be easiest to understand) are you basing this question off of?

^ well honestly I feel as though they would stalemate, with a slight edge to ww due to her ferocity when pushed. IMO his ss,, technopathy and speed boost give him a definite edge

Originally posted by Sin I AM
^ well honestly I feel as though they would stalemate, with a slight edge to ww due to her ferocity when pushed. IMO his ss,, technopathy and speed boost give him a definite edge


I don't know what you refer to when you say "ss".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here, the following isn't likely to last beyond 36 hours:

Examine 48 min 30 sec to 49 min 09 sec.
Then examine 57 min 46 sec to 59 min 45 sec.
Description of the Extremis Suit and its first usage.


Don't know how close a reflection that is of the original comic arc, but, assuming it is accurate, the outerwear portion is more or less a slightly harder version of Tony's normal suit. That much of him is more or less a standard suit, he just uses "Darth Vader" style powers to put that outersuit on.

I don't see that part of the suit giving any problems to Diana.

Even 1990s-style Diana, post her original Messner-Loebs run, theoretically has the strength to peel the outer portion of that suit like a grape.

For the inner portion, the undersheath?
I would need to be convinced this thing can handle temperature extremes, which are oft a vulnerability to Iron Man suits both in comics and in other media.
Particularly extremest cold.
For Diana has physically handled this type of opponent before...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
You've never gone off-topic?
I got bored and decided to check out the website of Better Homes and Gardens for the first time this morning.

(They've got a quiz you can take to discover your home-style preferences...)


Back to the subject at hand, though.


Were this conversation being held in the 1990s, especially during the William Messner Loebs era, I would agree with the poster who called Wondy a glass cannon.
I looked that term up on TV Tropes, and, for early 1990s-Wonder Woman, even a great deal of 1980s Perez Wonder Woman, it fits.
Great physical strength, low durability.
Fairly accurate as a description for many versions of the early post-Crisis character.

However ...


You should check out American Standards. Perhaps you may find a pre-foreclosed home. Oh and Diana should win, although it won't be becuse she tears Tony out of his suit.

Wonder Woman wins.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman wins.


Agreed, but it's worth pointing out some considerations for the other side. Besides, I've got these collected images sitting on my desktop with nothing to do.

As mentioned before, Wonder Woman's durability used to be lower than was portrayed before Flashpoint and the current arcs. Were we talking Wonder Woman 1998, say, I would agree with those who say Tony would have a slight advantage owing to Wondy being a glass cannon.
Yes, she did indeed get shot, and such, combined with the REST of the abuse delivered by her opponent, did, indeed, nearly take her out.

Wondering Woman versus Devastation, Round 1 ...

(Image 1 of 9)

Devastation versus Wondering Woman.

Image 2 of 9

Devastation versus Wondering Woman.

Image 3 of 9

Devastation shoots Wondering Woman

Image 4 of 9

Deva versus Di.

Image 5 of 9.

Deva versus Gumby?

Devastation and the Wondering Woman.

Image 6 of 9.

Devastation versus Wondering Woman

Image 7 of 9.

Devastation versus Wonder Woman.

Image 8 of 9.

Deva versus Di, end Round 1.


Image 9 of 9.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Wonder Woman #143, Volume 2
Writer: Eric Luke
Penciller: Yanick Paquette
Date: April 1999
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Wonder_Woman_Vol_2_143

I have knowledge of few, if any, of these.
I doubt your average comic fan does, either. I would assert, in fact, that the average professional comic book writer does not have such knowledge either, else Namor versus Aquaman would have been written as a more equal engagment.



Originally posted by -Pr-

But I could say the same about, say, Storm Vs Wonder Woman. Or Superboy Vs Spider-Man. Crossovers in general were just poorly written, wouldn't you say?



For this particular thread, the question of Crossover Validity is worth returning to. In terms of story quality, yes, I probably would say that crossovers in general were poorly written. On the other hand, the result of Storm versus Wonder Woman makes logical sense if we actually examine how Wonder Woman fared in her own company books during that era. The answer, generally, was ... "Not very well".

Would that I had Marvel versus DC 1996 in some digital format here for uploading. On the other hand, I'm fairly certain virtually everyone who has wandered into this thread has seen at some point in their life how that battle unfolded. Diana, finding herself possessed of Mjolnir, lays DOWN the weapon, simultaneously allowing the power of Thor that it stacked onto her to be given up as well.
She does this so that she can fight Storm of the X-Men on at least somewhat even terms.

I don't remember the exact timing of the issue. Think it was just about the time of the Byrne run. Messner-Loebs was ending, John Byrne was beginning. Looking at John Byrne's run, the fight action that follows, simple and brief though it was, would, outside of comics, be difficult to explain.
Imagine the strongest person you can think of. Now imagine that person twice as strong as THAT.
Could you take a knockout kick to the head from them?

In comics though, one missed knockout opportunity can be forgiven.
Diana is actually reasonably gentle with human opponents, she only uses fractional force to start, gauging the level of force they can withstand before escalating things. And one blow is all she's given the opportunity for.
Storm retaliates immediately afterwards with lightning.
Diana withstands for a moment till Storm increases the current, whereupon Diana drops.

Such a result would have seemed ludicrous in, say 2010.
(Not too many people were happy with it back then in 1996 or so, either.)

But no rules were being violated there.
There isn't really anything save the fickle whim and magic of Zeus & Co
providing invulnerability to Diana.
Unreasonable to expect a woman who could be hurt by bullets not to be laid low by electricity, no?
Even the Rhino has been dropped from such things.

So why NOT Diana?



At any rate, the reason for bringing that up ...?

Even as late as 2008, some 12 years after that event and steadily more impressive showings, Wondy STILL proved/proves herself vulnerable to electric shock. Check it out:

Diana versus Amazo.

Image 1 of 3.

Wondy versus Amazo.

Image 2 of 3.

Get an image host!

What are you actually trying to say, bwr?

Diana versus Amazo. Electric encounter, image 3 of 3.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Justice League of America #24, Volume 2
Writer: Dwayne McDuffie
Penciller: Ed Benes
Date: October 2008
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Justice_League_of_America_Vol_2_24

Polaris owned wonder woman with batman's tazers

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/108/drpolaris10ba4.jpg

Originally posted by Q99
Get an image host!



I've got one! It's called the Killer Movie Community Forums!

And, unlike yours, well-meaning though you are, it doesn't break my links after an indeterminate amount of time leaving me with graphic information forever lost.

Seriously, Q, have you seen what's left of some of the respect threads that rely on outside host providers? Have you seen what happened to your own scans, even that one of Wondy towing the sun that you tried to share a few months ago? Where is that image of yours now?

Understand, I DO plan to get to the point of expanding the services I employ.
And you're welcome to help me out on that score.
But I intend to get the surest image library for my things that I know of established FIRST.

Originally posted by Stoic
You should check out American Standards. Perhaps you may find a pre-foreclosed home. Oh and Diana should win, although it won't be becuse she tears Tony out of his suit.


Thanks, man. I actually checked out the website a few minutes after you wrote this. Strange that I don't really recall ever hearing of this group before now. Thanks for the lead!

I don't understand how we can be on page 7 of a thread and no one yet posted so much as a scan of what Extremis looks like, nevermind what Extremis has done or who Tony has fought while wearing it.

Well, I can at least remedy the first:

Image 1 of

Extremis Iron Man.

The previous image was/is of the undersheath forming for Tony to go into action. Extremis is actually a 2 part uniform. Part 1 is the Nanite/Nanobot formed suit that fits spandex like over Tony's skin...


Image 2 of 7.

Extremis Iron Man.

Image 3 of 7.

... the 2nd part of Extremis, as mentioned before, is a fairly standard Iron Man suit, albeit one described as having "metal memory".

Image 4 of 7.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I don't understand how we can be on page 7 of a thread and no one yet posted so much as a scan of what Extremis looks like, nevermind what Extremis has done or who Tony has fought while wearing it.

Well, I can at least remedy the first:

Image 1 of

We have a respect thread for that.....

As mentioned before, Tony possessed limited telekinesis-like control over his external uniform during the Extremis storyline ...


Image 5 of 7.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We have a respect thread for that.....


An Extremis Respect Thread?



Doesn't show up when I type it in for searches ...

care to link me to it?

Extremis Iron Man. Image 6 of 7.

Extremis Iron Man armor.

Note that, in the following close-up, both inner shell and outer shell masks are clearly visible.

Image 7 of 7.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
An Extremis Respect Thread?



Doesn't show up when I type it in for searches ...

care to link me to it?

Nah, its am Iron Man respect thread, so go to around page 10 or so, and you get the Extremis stuff. Then obv it gives way to Bleeding Edge, and the latest stuff against MAgneto etc.

Some scans are missing, but they give a flavour.

Also shows his H2H ability. Nothing like Diana's, of course, but he can still brawl.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=361854&pagenumber=10

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
:
Seriously, Q, have you seen what's left of some of the respect threads that rely on outside host providers?

Yea, mostly years after the fact, and they're far more accessible than doing 'em post by post.

This thread isn't going to be around for years.




On my hard drive, where I can post it on my own provider- which has been steady for the entire time I've had it and taken down none of my pics over the last 5-6 years- if I feel the need to post it.

Have you seen what happened to your own scans, even that one of Wondy towing the sun that you tried to share a few months ago? Where is that image of yours now?




Would that I had your luck and/or skill with host providers, then.

In the meanwhile, check out the 2nd to last post on the following page.

If your own provider has taken down none of your own pics, you borrowed from someone else whose host provider took down their pics.

The net result for virtually any browsing fan who ISN'T you is the same either way.


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=492036&pagenumber=3

I googled "Wonder Woman" and "electricity".

If Tony were to get a win over the latter post-Crisis version of Diana, that's really about the only avenue I could see for him winning.
I don't think there's any real consensus for whether Wonder Woman, post Greg Rucka, can resist high levels of electricity the way she can other things.

Search wasn't all that fruitful, though. Gave me a villain called "Blue Ice", real name Constance, shown as follows:

... and here's the 2nd shot.

On the forum this was posted on, the uploader presented this as an electrical attack, and certainly it LOOKS like one...

... but that doesn't square with Constance's own description of what her power is and what she actually does when she "zaps" people ...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Wonder Woman #155, Volume 2
Writer: Doselle Young
Penciller: John McCrea
Date: April 2000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Wonder_Woman_Vol_2_155
http://www.comicvine.com/wonder-woman-three-hearts-2-lies/37-53546/

Or you could just, y'know, use the one I use.

It's Photobucket.



She took a shot from a villain who uses Zeus's lightning in WW600.

I think she's taken shots from lightning users plenty of times. Polaris using his magnetic powers to make things all zappy stopping her was, I believe, a unique occurance.

At any rate, satisfied now that Iron Man Extremis has gotten at least SOME representation, I'll give a clearer idea as to what I've seen that makes me think Diana, even without standard gear, would prove the winner in a Wonder Woman/Extremis battle.

First of all would be the strength factor.
She's always been stronger than Iron Man from the period I began reading, which was the John Byrne era, and several scans have been posted suggesting how she'd do even against armors the size of Iron Man Hulkbuster.

Second, Diana's speed is superior to Tony's.
Normally I wouldn't count this as much of a factor in a Wonder Woman fight, save for special defense movements like deflecting bullets.
Diana doesn't fight quite like her "tank" friends normally, who will stand there and take blows just because they can, but she makes no supereffort to be untouchable, either.
Actually, she blocks a lot.
Here, bereft of blocking equipment, it only makes sense she would be more prone to dodging, and therefore more likely to think of using her speed to advantage than she is normally wont.

Third, though, mentioned before, is her durability, which has been more or less steadily increasing over the years. Somewhere over in the "revamped" version of the Wonder Woman respect thread, someone posted a story written by Gail Simone where Di gets shot by an arrow.
Normally that would be remarkable for the fact someone managed to actually hit her with one, though not that, if they did, that the arrow drew blood. Here the reverse proves the case. She expresses great surprise that the point cut her and surmises that the arrows must be magic, which, if memory serves correctly, they are.

The implication is that Wonder Woman is normally INvulnerable to normal arrows, and by extension a variety of projectiles and/or small fire weapons, including edged ones, which was certainly not the case in earlier years.

If I get the chance, I may retrieve that one.
In the meantime, though, I have the following, which given the magnitudes of force and size involved, impressed me a great deal more:

Originally posted by Q99
Or you could just, y'know, use the one I use.

It's Photobucket.



Q, the best way to preserve the wealth of digital information on these boards is to use a VARIETY of host providers. I am not being facetious when I say I would consider it a good thing if you took virtually any of the images I've posted and provided the Photobucket version of them of your choice. I would not consider that an affront but an aid to me as an uploader and a fellow comic-reading fan.

Oooor just use one that stays around. Not use small ones, but rather the most stable ones.

Also you seem to consider accessibility over years more important than ease of immediate access. It's more useful to have it easier to access the information now in a more compact format.

Originally posted by Q99

you seem to consider accessibility over years more important than ease of immediate access.

I do. I've stated that numerous times.

I've spent enough time trying to make the point in this thread, though.
There are advantages to using KMC that outside providers, even Photobucket, cannot match. Did you even notice that the scan you posted via Photobucket was deleted? And that happened VERY shortly after you did so, a matter of a few days or weeks if I remember right.
Proof is right in the link I gave on the previous page.



If you want to talk more on the subject, send me a private message.



I DO appreciate your time and effort, but unless you tell me something like

"KMC is going to be phasing out their image uploading! They voted on it and decided it uses too much bandwidth!",

it makes a lot more sense, given my goal of, yes, keeping this stuff around as long as possible for as many fans as possible
by using KMC's own resources FIRST.


After all, once that's done, there's nothing preventing me from translating my KMC work through other means.
And, like I said, I don't mind if others "borrow" the stuff I've put down here to date.

Thank you for your time.

Previous submission, Wonder Woman enduring the collision of that subway-sized serpent Quetzlotl and subway train on the points of that beast's teeth, has the following as ref info ...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Wonder Woman #40, Volume 3
Writer: Gail Simone
Penciller: Aaron Lopresti
Date: March 2010
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Wonder_Woman_Vol_3_40

Earlier I stated Wonder Woman has faced the "Extremis" type of opponent before.

She has. At DC they are called OMAC. Nanite/nanobot technology bonding to people to make essentially super-suited metal warriors.
Greg Rucka spent essentially the latter part of his run featuring Wondy facing these down.

The following is essentially how I would envision Wonder Woman versus Extremis going down, unless someone provides some impressive showing from Tony that I can't even guess at.


Wondy versus ColdplayOmac. Image 1 of

Wondy versus Coldplay Omac.

Image 2 of 7.

Wonder Woman versus Coldplay OMAC.

Image 3 of 7.

Diana versus ColdplayOMAC.

Image 4 of 7.