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This is Classic Jugs vs Demon Colossonaut...the one that fought Red Hulk and almost destroyed Utopia.

Who wins? No bfring.

Cain. Easily.


And, without any whining.

Didn't Cytorrak say colossus has access to more power?

If true there's no arguement

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Didn't Cytorrak say colossus has access to more power?

If true there's no arguement

And thus begins the argument between feats vs context. Which one do we follow?

Context?

With nothing else to base it on you have to assume

Either

A: Colossus > Cain
Or
B: Cytorrak is lying to himself in his mind

Or he's realised that Piotr is a crybaby, and is trying to big him up lol.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Context?

With nothing else to base it on you have to assume

Either

A: Colossus > Cain
Or
B: Cytorrak is lying to himself in his mind

If we followed that rule though, everything said in comics would have to be treated as gospel. Even Spidey's tale of Sentry pushing back Galactus. When do we decide to accept one canon event over the next? I mean how do we decipher what to believe?

When its proved false

Originally posted by pym-ftw
When its proved false



but when was it proven to be false?

Your burdened with needing to prove it false

Cytorrak stated he gave more power to colossus, so unless Cytorrak lost power somewhere down the line....

Granted Cain being a "bad guy" was more destructive and has many years more feats...

Spidey talking about Sentry can be seen as hyperbole. But Cytorrak whose power it is stated that he gave more to Colossus. So he should have more power than Cain, plain and simple.

If I can bestow super powers and I give one guy fire powers and the other the ability to hear colors, and then I say. Yeah, fire guy is more powerful. You should take me at my word because I bestowed the powers.

Demon colossus isn't getting past classic juggernauts forcefields. Cain beats him to sleep and shows him what being juggernauts all about.

Originally posted by KingD19
Spidey talking about Sentry can be seen as hyperbole. But Cytorrak whose power it is stated that he gave more to Colossus. So he should have more power than Cain, plain and simple.

If I can bestow super powers and I give one guy fire powers and the other the ability to hear colors, and then I say. Yeah, fire guy is more powerful. You should take me at my word because I bestowed the powers.

Or we can accept the idea that the Sentry pushed Galactus back, because it was written, and thus it is canon. The Sentry has been shown to operate on different levels depending on his psyche, so who can say that the time that he pushed Galactus back was not him operating on a higher level?

BTW, there's no need to explain further, because I understand both you and Pym. I was just making an example of selective reading pertaining to context, and when it should be taken for what it is and when it isn't. The fact is that it was never proven that the Sentry did not push Galactus back, and that it should be taken into account that the Void whom Sentry beat and tossed into the sun, was not budged by a team that would have given Galactus hell. After all a weakened Galactus, or hungry Galactus was pushed back by a far weaker team than the one that could not budge the Void. Crazy huh?

Originally posted by Damborgson
Demon colossus isn't getting past classic juggernauts forcefields. Cain beats him to sleep and shows him what being juggernauts all about.

Same could be said about Classic Juggs not having enough strength to overcome Demon Colossus' durability. I say infinite stalemate if anything as we don't know just what Big C meant when he said that.

And true enough, Stoic. True enough.

Hard to say , Demon Colossus was slapping Rulk around like Zeus - Hulk.

Classic Juggs on the other hand was as durable as one can get.

A stalemate is the most realistic outcome.

How would Classic Juggs do against Rulk in a comic?

If most you think he would flat out manhandle and punk Rulk, then this is a fight. If it would be a long fight where both parties are treated as equals then Colossus wins.

Colossus might have access to more power but would have to go on a rampage so vile and destructive, that even Mephisto stops and says "damn that's just wrong", to get it.

No. Just be in a fight. He wasn't doing anything but fighting with Rulk when his demon form manifested. If he's fight Cain, he'll amp up. Hell, he's already in demon mode for this fight.

Demon Colossus has basically one showing. Manhandling Rulk in a one sided battle. He is clearly shown be written above Rulk by a fair margin in terms of strength and durability.

Where was is said that Cyttorak gave Piotr more power?

I don't remember it being explicitly stated that "I gave you more power than Cain", rather that seems to be the logical extension people are taking "You're my favorite avatar. Why do you think I've given you so much?" to --Referring to his demon-like form.

Demon Colossus should logically be more powerful. Plus I don't remember Cain ever beating down someone on the level of Rulk so easily, especially with no shield.

Cain beat down Thor worse in the 8th Day Saga.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Cain beat down Thor worse in the 8th Day Saga.
If you count 8th Day then they would be comparable. Thor was at least able to mount some sort of offense but I guess you could say he lasted as long as Cain allowed him to. Normal Juggs wasn't that powerful though.

Normal Juggs beat down Thor twice though, with Thor winning both battles through BFR and magic I believe. Thor stood absolutely no chance in either of the fights without bfr's by Mjolnir and dropping Cain's forcefield.

depends on how p'od original juggernaut is. if he is completely raged, then him.

Originally posted by KingD19
Normal Juggs beat down Thor twice though, with Thor winning both battles through BFR and magic I believe. Thor stood absolutely no chance in either of the fights without bfr's by Mjolnir and dropping Cain's forcefield.
Demon Colossus didn't need a forcefield.

Originally posted by KingD19
Same could be said about Classic Juggs not having enough strength to overcome Demon Colossus' durability. I say infinite stalemate if anything as we don't know just what Big C meant when he said that.

And true enough, Stoic. True enough.

he wouldnt have to in my opinion. Colossus doesnt have the will to use the superior power he's been given. He'd rip off tje helm amd get worked again.

That said: if he gave in to the destructive instoncts then yeah stalemate.

If Piotr can stop having "Bob Ross moments", he would own classic Juggs, it wouldn't even be close.

The problem is that he starts his whining bagpipe and loses focus. If Piotr thought Cain would kill Kitty or had injured Logan or some scenario where he had to protect someone he cared about, he would put Juggs out of his misery.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Where was is said that Cyttorak gave Piotr more power? This was NEVER stated.

And Piotr has done nothing to compare with Cain's past slugfests against Hulk, Thor, Nightmare, etc.

Even the most powerful incarnations of Hulk have chosen to bfr Cain or needed Celestial technology to even fight on his level.

Turning into a big, ghey hermit crab is not impressive. Nor, is beating up a Red Hulk that doesn't have full access to his powers.