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Setting is in the geonosian areana with 30 minutes rest between each fight.

1) 50 clone troopers
2) Boba Fett, Jango Fett, and Cad Bane
3) Darth Maul and Darth Malgus
4) Mace Windu, Kit FIsto, Agen Kolar
5) Count Dooku, General Grevious, and Asajj Ventress

3, personally.

4 and 5 are just straight up unfair.

I think they can make it through 3, personally. I think Marek could defeat Malgus before Maul would defeat Kenobi.

I actually think they can take them all. In 4 Kit Fisto and Agen get blitzed by either Marek or Kenobi, so Windu is kind of gets outnumbered.

And in 5 right at beginning Marek Force crushes Grevious. While Kenobi fends of Ventress, Marek either Force crushes or kills with lightsaber Dooku, doesn't really matter. And then either Marek honors Kenobi's fight and simply wait or just another Force crush.

I know, sounds very biased but come on. Marek drilled both Force and saber skills from childhood to perfection and his power is above any of them. I would say only Windu is adequate opponent for him out of all but his mates are rather too weak.

I think Dooku is a more skilled duelist than Garek but lacks his raw power in the force.

Originally posted by bayhunter12
I think Dooku is a more skilled duelist than Garek but lacks his raw power in the force.
Which is why he is more likely to lose. There can't be big difference in combat as Marek put many years into his training in sabers and as Sith he drilled it.

Yet in lightsaber combat Dooku was an almost unparallelled prodigy. Galen is good, but recall that he had problems against Vader and Shaak Ti in that department.

Stop at 4.

Also AotC Obi-Wan isn't much help against the later teams. He's more a liability than anything really.

Kenobi could fight Fisto or Kolar individually, but not both together.

Game over at 4. Windu crushes either in saber combat and has the prowess to defend himself well enough with the force to get in and kill either as well, and that's not even bringing in the other two backing Windu up.

The point of Marek was kind of to be an uber force wielder. His force powers were pretty extreme. Even as a jedi he used force lighting when he fought the emperor. So in pure force power I think he would topple most of the people on this list. According to the books he knew many different styles of Lightsaber fighting including Obi-Wan's in fact iirc when he was "pretending" to be a jedi that is the style he used for the most part. He would fall back on his sith styles but he was also versed in jedi fighting. As far as him beating duku I am not sure if he could match him in a duel but I don't think he would play fair either....Im betting he would use the force to over power him if he felt like he was losing.

That was random.

I don't like being predictable! lol

Galen stops at 4. At this point it is him vs. the trio.

Instead of lowballing Vader's combat prowess would be appriciated, if someone provided any canon quotes that he became weaker fighter since RotS. All we have is Luceno novel, where he overcomes his limitations and takes advantage of his greater strength.

Originally posted by Arhael
Instead of lowballing Vader's combat prowess would be appriciated, if someone provided any canon quotes that he became weaker fighter since RotS. All we have is Luceno novel, where he overcomes his limitations and takes advantage of his greater strength.

Lucas says it in the ANH audio commentary, that Vader is not as good now in a Saber fight as he used to be.

5 is such a stomp. Grievous would thrash AOTC Kenobi and Dooku and Ventress would kill Galen.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Lucas says it in the ANH audio commentary, that Vader is not as good now in a Saber fight as he used to be.
No he doesn't.

Originally posted by ares834
No he doesn't.

Ok, what did he say then (in your mind that is)??

I didn't like the statement myself, but there's no point in denying what he said.

He's not as energetic and his fighting style is less "fancy".

Originally posted by ares834
He's not as energetic and his fighting style is less "fancy".

Right I'll have to re-check, because I don't remember those words being used.

I'm not actually sure which quote you're talking about. I'm assuming though it's the "prime of the Jedi" quote which he does use "energetic". If it's something else, please post it.

"In these days sword fighting was not quite as sophisticated as it was during the height of the Jedi period. In this particular rendition Vader was half man half machine, Obi-Wan was pretty much an old man, and so this fight was a Hard fight for them, it wasn't a acrobatic and jump around fast fight, it was a kind of Hard fight to fight because they're both kind of Old Jedi."

George Lucas ANH Audio Commentary (play during the Lightsaber fight between Old Ben and Vader.)

I think it's pretty clear from that, that sword fighting is a lot harder for these 2 now, and neither of them are as fast or as mobile as they once were.

Still don't see that as saying they are weaker. Sure, he is saying it's more difficult for them fight now which makes sense, but simply because it's more difficult for them to fight doesn't mean they are necessarily less skilled. Same with him saying they aren't jumping around, that's true but, once again, doesn't necessitate them being weaker. Dooku, for example, isn't leaping around but he comes across as an even more deadly saber combatant than Kenobi same with mace Windu.

Stop at three.

I think they make it through 3. Marek can handle malgus much quicker than maul could defeat kenobi. then you have a two on one beat down.

I like how that Lucas quote really shows how pathetically little Lucas really knows about swordplay.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yet in lightsaber combat Dooku was an almost unparallelled prodigy. Galen is good, but recall that he had problems against Vader and Shaak Ti in that department. Keep in mind that Dooku lost to Anakin not because Anakin was more skilled, but because Anakin outright overpowered him. I wouldn't put it past Marek to do the same.

Originally posted by NemeBro


Keep in mind that Dooku lost to Anakin not because Anakin was more skilled, but because Anakin outright overpowered him. I wouldn't put it past Marek to do the same.

Galen doesn't have as much raw power at his diposal as Anakin did. And there's little evidence that he's anywhere near as effective a Sword fighter. (Especially when comparing to Zone Anakin).

Even during Clone Wars Anakin has consistently stalemated Count Dooku. Galen hasn't fought anyone who is known to be such a noteworthy Saber Duelist. On the contrary he has seriously struggled against far weaker opponents like Shaaki Ti.

Yeah, let's just all forget the Shaak TI had the help of a mega-Sarlacc...

Originally posted by NemeBro
I like how that Lucas quote really shows how pathetically little Lucas really knows about swordplay.

Keep in mind that Dooku lost to Anakin not because Anakin was more skilled, but because Anakin outright overpowered him. I wouldn't put it past Marek to do the same.

Djem So is literally the antithesis of Makashi, and Dooku had never encountered a swordsman who had mastered Djem So to the degree of Skywalker so he was at a significant disadvantage. Marek on the other hand fights with Juyo and will have no such advantage given that Dooku used to spar with the foremost master of Juyo/Vaapad Mace Windu.

Originally posted by ares834
Yeah, let's just all forget the Shaak TI had the help of a mega-Sarlacc...


Yeah but let's not forget he also struggled against Kota.

The point stands. Galen's not beaten anyone even close to being as noteworthy a duelist as Count Dooku.

His claim to fame is beating Darth Vader(who himself lacks sufficient evidence to say how good a fencer he is) and he couldn't even do that in TFUII.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Djem So is literally the antithesis of Makashi, and Dooku had never encountered a swordsman who had mastered Djem So to the degree of Skywalker so he was at a significant disadvantage.

Nah Skywalker was just too powerful. And he knew full well how he fights, as he's fought him at least 3 times in the Clone Wars.

When is it suggested he struggled against Kota? Regardless, his power increases greatly throughout the game. Also I've argued for Vader's sabers skills before bringing forth a plethora of examples that certainly put him within the Count's range (I'll look for them later).

Originally posted by ares834
When is it suggested he struggled against Kota?

That's how I remember the novel and the comic. But I'll have to re-check. I remember him struggling in all his sword fights.

Originally posted by ares834
Regardless, his power increases greatly throughout the game.

Oh yeah I know that. His power increases 3 or 4 times in the story right up until he fights Sidious. But we still need Saber feats. We can't just assume that because his power increased that he can take Dooku in a Sword fight.

Originally posted by ares834
Also I've argued for Vader's sabers skills before bringing forth a plethora of examples that certainly put him within the Count's range (I'll look for them later).

Well I'd like to see them. But I doubt the evidence will be that convincing.

Count Dooku's been toe to toe with Yoda and has been stated to be at least a good a swordsman as Mace Windu.

I'd have a really hard time seeing Vader being above ROTS Kenobi in Sabers. And as of TFUII Galen is his equal.

Count Dooku gets his ass kicked by Yoda every time they cross blades. And he matched Mace prior to leaving the order which is presumably before Mace finished creating Vaapad. Don't get me wrong, Dooku is a very skilled duelist but that doesn't make him some nearly unparalleled master.

That hardly matters in this case. Marek constantly strained his capabilities and many times set new goals beyond his limits down to the point that he moved Star Destroyer.

In comparison Anakin with his slow pace training and constant Jedi restrain most of the time did as much as deflect blaster bolts and cut down droids.


This time I have to defend Dooku.


It doesn't say that his style is different. It says that his style can't effectively meet attacks head-to-head. But he still can deflect them sideways instead of fully blocking and he still can outmanouver with better mobility that Makashi gives him.

And yes it is still a dissadvantage but no martial art is perfect and Dooku demonstrated just that:
"He dropped low and spun into another reverse ankle-sweep-the weakness of Djem So was its lack of mobility-that slapped Skywalker's boot sharply enough to throw the young Jedi off balance".

I still believe that Marek stomps, though. It's just I don't like weaker/stronger style idea.

Ventress beats Marek? What Kool-aid did you drink? Sure she may be better than him in lightsaber, but Force wise? I think not.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Nah Skywalker was just too powerful. And he knew full well how he fights, as he's fought him at least 3 times in the Clone Wars.

Because Djem So is literally a Makashi user's worst nightmare. If a Makashi user of equal skill fought a Djem So user the Djem So user would win everytime. Dooku's only saving grace in AOTC was that he was simply a superior swordsman. The moment Anakin became a swordsman of his caliber he started to lose. And yeah everytime they fought in the Clone Wars Dooku beat him albeit with some difficulty.

Was it ever proven that Djem So was SUPA-EFFECTIVE against Makashi? I recall that we argued about it.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Because Djem So is literally a Makashi user's worst nightmare. If a Makashi user of equal skill fought a Djem So user the Djem So user would win everytime. Dooku's only saving grace in AOTC was that he was simply a superior swordsman. The moment Anakin became a swordsman of his caliber he started to lose. And yeah everytime they fought in the Clone Wars Dooku beat him albeit with some difficulty.
Nah, neither is better.
m0CSrUrfA98

Some of Vader's dueling feats (pretty much a copy of a post I posted awhile back):

Toys with some skilled Jedi.



Toys with Aurra Sing:



From his duel with Starkiller on the Death Star:



More from TFU:



From the perspective of Ferus Olin:

A speed comparison to Yoda is high praise. Even I didn't know Vader had that in him.

Originally posted by ares834
Count Dooku gets his ass kicked by Yoda every time they cross blades.

Hey just going toe to toe against Yoda is a huge feat in itself.

According to the ROTS script Yoda was even kicking Sidious's ass in the Saber duel.

Originally posted by ares834
And he matched Mace prior to leaving the order which is presumably before Mace finished creating Vaapad.

I was talking about the Dark Rendezvous quote. He's clearly still considered AT LEAST a match for Windu in Sabers a few months before ROTS.

Originally posted by ares834
Don't get me wrong, Dooku is a very skilled duelist but that doesn't make him some nearly unparalleled master.

I didn't say he was. But he is one of the PT Top Dogs.


Originally posted by ares834
Some of Vader's dueling feats (pretty much a copy of a post I posted awhile back):

Toys with some skilled Jedi.



Toys with Aurra Sing:



From his duel with Starkiller on the Death Star:



More from TFU:



From the perspective of Ferus Olin:

Impressive stuff. I've read but forgot most of that.

But still the only one that really stands out as any kind of comaprison to the Top PT dogs is the quote from Ferus Olin's perspective.

But even that's saying he's slower than Yoda. And he probably hasn't seen Darth Sidious, Count Dooku, Mace Windu, or Anakin Skywlaker in action.

But still your right in that I've probably been underestimating Vader's speed and lethalness in Sabers.

If we think how much trouble Savage Opress's physical strength has given a lot of Jedi, and then realize that Vader has similar physical strength, plus a hell of a lot better skill, then with some substantial speed on top he would be deadly.