Who Can Beat Flash/Zoom with CIS off?

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Colossus-Big C
Cis off mean there moving at there maximum speeds, femto seconds.
Thats squeezing 1 million years out of 1 Second

Is there anyone herald or below who can beat them in a fight?

What about skyfather and below? Couldnt they punch thanos 1 million times a second? That would kill the phuck out of him.

DarkSaint85
No one.

Well, it depends how much stock you place in GL and Strange auto shields, and whether they can speedsteal Juggernaut. But even then, the ebst tey can hope for is a draw.

Horrificus
Any character that controls Time could win. Or Space.
Theoretically, Pip, with the Space gem should be able to make each step Infinitely distant from each other.

Just off the top of my head.

ColossusGrundy
Spectre, Dr. Fate, any high level mystic could slow them down without even having to see them.

DarkSaint85
But then it goes on how much stock you place on reaction speeds.

Unless you do something like 'Fate enters the arena with shields already up', without autoshields, he'd be blitzed nigh simultaneously with the ringing of the bell.

abhilegend
Waverider

Galan007
kingdom gog.

Mindset
Iron Fist.

Black bolt z
Classic Juggernaut. Nothing they can do to him. They'd eventually die of hunger, or old age.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Mindset
Iron Fist.

Yeah, a severely handicapped Danny who's limited himself to mere herald status can beat these two jokers.

Stoic
No one would stop him. In this scenario, you would imagine that some voice from beyond said 1..2..3.. fight. It would be over the moment the word fight was spoken. Basing this opinion off of the OP, the Flash would be hitting with a mass equal to his speed, and end up displacing the equivalent mass in terms of metrics to the far reaches of a large sector of space. Matter can not be destroyed but it can be displaced, which would also include the character being hit with that amount of force. Conceptually it would be like blurring the lines of what is matter and what was energy. No mystic would be capable of making a spell in time to counter this amount of speed, nor would your average reality manipulator have the time necessary to counter. The Flash is the most powerful Herald out there with CIS off. I would dare to say that not even a Sky Father would be able to contend with a wielder that was fully tapping into the Speed Force. I mean how the hell would they be able to?

PIS is what you get when a character like Superboy Prime survives after getting into a fist fight with any user capable of becoming one with the Speed Force. It's no wonder that he didn't destroy the entire universe while on that level.

The Flash as hard as it is to admit, is the champ.

Mindset
Originally posted by Stoic
No one would stop him. In this scenario, you would imagine that some voice from beyond said 1..2..3.. fight. It would be over the moment the word fight was spoken. Basing this opinion off of the OP, the Flash would be hitting with a mass equal to his speed, and end up displacing the equivalent mass in terms of metrics to the far reaches of a large sector of space. Matter can not be destroyed but it can be displaced, which would also include the character being hit with that amount of force. Conceptually it would be like blurring the lines of what is matter and what was energy. No mystic would be capable of making a spell in time to counter this amount of speed, nor would your average reality manipulator have the time necessary to counter. The Flash is the most powerful Herald out there with CIS off. I would dare to say that not even a Sky Father would be able to contend with a wielder that was fully tapping into the Speed Force. I mean how the hell would they be able to?

PIS is what you get when a character like Superboy Prime survives after getting into a fist fight with any user capable of becoming one with the Speed Force. It's no wonder that he didn't destroy the entire universe while on that level.

The Flash as hard as it is to admit, is the champ. Genis would own Flash.

Stoic
Originally posted by Mindset
Genis would own Flash.

With what time? He would be hit with enough force to displace every planet and star in the universe. Think of the amount of speed he would be hit with. The idea is absolutely crazy. Genis' chances of winning would be lower than reversing the laws of reality. In other words with CIS off he would die the moment that voice said fight.

Mindset
Originally posted by Stoic
With what time? He would be hit with enough force to displace every planet and star in the universe. Think of the amount of speed he would be hit with. The idea is absolutely crazy. Genis' chances of winning would be lower than reversing the laws of reality. In other words with CIS off he would die the moment that voice said fight. Genis can reform from energy.

Genis was at ground zero of a big bang.

He owns Flash.

Endless Mike
Swamp Thing

Stoic
Someone once said that if an object made of pure iron the size of a football stadium hit a planet moving at the speed of light, that it would destroy our entire universe. The Flash would be moving multiple times that speed based on his top speed feats in comics. Which would also make him far larger in terms of mass than a planet, and with the Speed Force shielding him, he would be far sturdier than iron. Just something to think about.

Stoic
Originally posted by Mindset
Genis can reform from energy.

Genis was at ground zero of a big bang.

He owns Flash.

It would still mean that for that moment that he was reforming that the Flash won. One fall is all it takes right?

DarkSaint85
Or they could just dump people in the Speed Force....

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Stoic
Someone once said that if an object made of pure iron the size of a football stadium hit a planet moving at the speed of light, that it would destroy our entire universe. The Flash would be moving multiple times that speed based on his top speed feats in comics. Which would also make him far larger in terms of mass than a planet, and with the Speed Force shielding him, he would be far sturdier than iron. Just something to think about. Whoever said that was wrong.

Mindset
Originally posted by Stoic
It would still mean that for that moment that he was reforming that the Flash won. One fall is all it takes right? Not if they can reform in moments.

DarkSaint85
OR working together, erase people from continuity.....

Stoic
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Whoever said that was wrong.


Based on what? Do the math, and calculate the mass vs velocity vs impact ratio. Once you do that you may look like I did when he explained it to us on a black board.

JakeTheBank
lol I forget how powerful people think Flash is.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Stoic
Someone once said that if an object made of pure iron the size of a football stadium hit a planet moving at the speed of light, that it would destroy our entire universe. The Flash would be moving multiple times that speed based on his top speed feats in comics. Which would also make him far larger in terms of mass than a planet, and with the Speed Force shielding him, he would be far sturdier than iron. Just something to think about. Like I said. Not true.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Like I said. Not true.

What if it wasn't pure iron, but a giant copper coin the size of the EMPIRE STATE BUILDING?

Black bolt z
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What if it wasn't pure iron, but a giant copper coin the size of the EMPIRE STATE BUILDING? Oh, then I'm sure it would be true.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Oh, then I'm sure it would be true. thumb up smart

Endless Mike
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Whoever said that was wrong.

Technically they were somewhat right, but the way it's phrased here is disingenuous.

Any amount of mass moving at the speed of light will have infinite energy, and if it hits something it would release a blast of infinite energy expanding in every direction at the speed of light.

Now this wouldn't actually destroy the universe, at most it would destroy everything in the universe (which is different from destroying the universe itself, i.e. the space-time continuum). Even so, as the blast would only expand at the speed of light, it would take billions of years to do so.

However even allowing for billions of years, there are parts of the universe that are expanding away from us faster than the speed of light (this is possible because it is not matter or energy which is moving at that speed, but the space-time they are embedded within). So even given infinite time, such a blast of infinite energy would not even manage to consume the entire universe.

Now there are many characters/objects/entities in fiction that can move at the speed of light. Could any of them actually do such a thing? Well, apart from cosmic - type beings that actually have universe - level feats and stated to have "infinite power" (like Cosmic Cubes), I doubt it.

In fiction, there is usually some kind of "cheat" against relativity that allows lightspeed travel for objects with mass, such as space/time warping, hyperspace/other dimensions, speedforce, etc.

Another part of the post seemed to imply that something going faster than light would be even more powerful/dangerous, when that is not true. As, according to our current understanding of physics, it's impossible for any mass/energy to accelerate to a speed greater than lightspeed, we don't know how much energy such an object would have. Equations for kinetic energy break down past that barrier, and give you nonsensical answers (like imaginary/complex numbers).

So, in real life, if the Earth was hit by an object moving at twice the speed of light, what would happen?

We don't know.

It could destroy the universe, or it could just pass through the earth harmlessly and nothing would happen at all. Or any one of an infinite amount of other possible outcomes.

Stoic
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Like I said. Not true.

A complete relativistic relation is

E2 = (m c2)2 = (m0c2)2 + (pc)2
where pc = momentum in energy units (divide by c to get momentum) (note: the mass used in the momentum is the relativistic mass)
E = total energy
m = relativistic mass
m0 = rest mass

Example problem: If a moving neutral particle decays into two photons, a 500-MeV photon and a 600-MeV photon, with an opening angle of 60 degrees, what is the rest mass of the neutral perticle?
After balancing transverse momentum, the longitudinal momentum (pc units) is
pc = 600 cos(27 degrees) + 500 cos(33 degrees) = 953.94 MeV
E = 500 + 600 = 1100 MeV
Therefore
m0c2 = sqrt = 547.72 MeV
The closest particle is the eta meson, with a rest mass of 547.30 MeV.

The momentum beta of the neutral particle = 953.94/1100 = 0.8672
So velocity v = .8672 x 3 x 108 meters per sec = 2.599 x 108 meters per sec

I'm not that smart, but I can understand what is being said here, although I do not know how to figure the solution to higher rates of speed when trying to figure out the higher rates of velocity vs mass. But since you appear to know, why don't you do the math, and get back to me once you figure it out.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Technically they were somewhat right, but the way it's phrased here is disingenuous.

Any amount of mass moving at the speed of light will have infinite energy, and if it hits something it would release a blast of infinite energy expanding in every direction at the speed of light.

Now this wouldn't actually destroy the universe, at most it would destroy everything in the universe (which is different from destroying the universe itself, i.e. the space-time continuum). Even so, as the blast would only expand at the speed of light, it would take billions of years to do so.

However even allowing for billions of years, there are parts of the universe that are expanding away from us faster than the speed of light (this is possible because it is not matter or energy which is moving at that speed, but the space-time they are embedded within). So even given infinite time, such a blast of infinite energy would not even manage to consume the entire universe.

Now there are many characters/objects/entities in fiction that can move at the speed of light. Could any of them actually do such a thing? Well, apart from cosmic - type beings that actually have universe - level feats and stated to have "infinite power" (like Cosmic Cubes), I doubt it.

In fiction, there is usually some kind of "cheat" against relativity that allows lightspeed travel for objects with mass, such as space/time warping, hyperspace/other dimensions, speedforce, etc.

Another part of the post seemed to imply that something going faster than light would be even more powerful/dangerous, when that is not true. As, according to our current understanding of physics, it's impossible for any mass/energy to accelerate to a speed greater than lightspeed, we don't know how much energy such an object would have. Equations for kinetic energy break down past that barrier, and give you nonsensical answers (like imaginary/complex numbers).

So, in real life, if the Earth was hit by an object moving at twice the speed of light, what would happen?

We don't know.

It could destroy the universe, or it could just pass through the earth harmlessly and nothing would happen at all. Or any one of an infinite amount of other possible outcomes. See. An explanation that actually makes sense. And is true.

Endless Mike
Beat you to it

DarkSaint85
Careful Stoic, you're veering into using real world logic and applying it to comics...

But EndlessMike is right. As you approach lightspeed, you approach infinity.

Twice lightspeed does not mean twice infinity, and even if it did, its kinda meaningless.

Back to the issue at hand. Although Flash travels at multiples of lightspeed, I don't think it means he has multiples of infinite mass behind his punches. So it would do the same damage as a lightspeed IMP, IMO.

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Careful Stoic, you're veering into using real world logic and applying it to comics...

But EndlessMike is right. As you approach lightspeed, you approach infinity.

Twice lightspeed does not mean twice infinity, and even if it did, its kinda meaningless.

Back to the issue at hand. Although Flash travels at multiples of lightspeed, I don't think it means he has multiples of infinite mass behind his punches. So it would do the same damage as a lightspeed IMP, IMO.

This is where I would have to disagree with Mike. There is a number placed on the speed of light, and it can and has been clocked. Infinity has no cap. There was simply no other way for me to express how hard the Flash would hit, and therefore I was forced to bring physics into this, even though I sucked at the subject, and cheated like a bastard to get through it.

Endless Mike
Originally posted by Stoic
This is where I would have to disagree with Mike. There is a number placed on the speed of light, and it can and has been clocked. Infinity has no cap. There was simply no other way for me to express how hard the Flash wold hit, and therefore I was forced to bring physics into this, even though I sucked at the subject, and cheated like a bastard to get through it.

If you really wanted to calculate how much energy an FTL object would have, you would have to:

- Observe FTL objects hitting things in real life
- Develop a mathematical formula from those observations
- Use it to calculate the energy

According to all the physics we know, matter/energy moving FTL just isn't possible. So we can't calculate how much power/energy an FTL object would have.

You might as well try to use science to attach a number to Mr. Mxyzptlk making 2 + 2 = fish.

JakeTheBank
If you apply real world physics and logic to characters who clearly defecate on them through virtue of existing, then they're going to become gods in "forum mode".

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
This is where I would have to disagree with Mike. There is a number placed on the speed of light, and it can and has been clocked. Infinity has no cap. There was simply no other way for me to express how hard the Flash would hit, and therefore I was forced to bring physics into this, even though I sucked at the subject, and cheated like a bastard to get through it.

It has a finite number, because physics needed it in order to create the concept of the metre.

HISTORY TIME!

What is a metre? It is the distance travelled by a beam of light in a vacuum in xs of a second (can't be bothered to look it up now). So if you work backwards from that, it gives the speed of light.

Stoic
Originally posted by Endless Mike
If you really wanted to calculate how much energy an FTL object would have, you would have to:

- Observe FTL objects hitting things in real life
- Develop a mathematical formula from those observations
- Use it to calculate the energy

According to all the physics we know, matter/energy moving FTL just isn't possible. So we can't calculate how much power/energy an FTL object would have.

You might as well try to use science to attach a number to Mr. Mxyzptlk making 2 + 2 = fish.

Agreed, and understood.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If you apply real world physics and logic to characters who clearly defecate on them through virtue of existing, then they're going to become gods in "forum mode".

Agreed, so there should most certainly be a rule against making CISless Flash threads, because his speed would never be able to be beaten. I mean who could ever outfight him, or react in time to stop him from beating them into molecules?

Endless Mike
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If you apply real world physics and logic to characters who clearly defecate on them through virtue of existing, then they're going to become gods in "forum mode".

Well certain things can be quantified, just not things that our physics has no way of accounting for.

This doesn't mean anything against the laws of physics can't be quantified in any way, for example.

I've already explained why FTL is impossible, but in a comic if there is a distance that light takes 2 minutes to cross, and someone crosses it in 1 minute, we can pretty safely say he's moving at twice the speed of light.

DarkSaint85
And that's just with his punch attacks.

They can also phuck with your timestream, BFR dump you in the Speed Force, turn you into a statue...

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And that's just with his punch attacks.

They can also phuck with your timestream, BFR dump you in the Speed Force, turn you into a statue...


I think Quick Silver needs some respect. I wonder if he could beat his dad if CIS were off?

carver9
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If you apply real world physics and logic to characters who clearly defecate on them through virtue of existing, then they're going to become gods in "forum mode".

Pretty much and this is what I have been telling Mike for yrs.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
I think Quick Silver needs some respect. I wonder if he could beat his dad if CIS were off?

I'd say he has a good chance.

Mindset
It's actually what I've been telling Carver for years.

Endless Mike
There's a difference between trying to quantify something that can actually be measured and something that can't.

carver9
Originally posted by Mindset
It's actually what I've been telling Carver for years.


Lol....

carver9
Originally posted by Endless Mike
There's a difference between trying to quantify something that can actually be measured and something that can't.


Gladiator has flown 100 times the speed of light and has planet destroying strength. Using your calculations, he should outright kill anyone with a single punch to the face. Don't you agree.?

Endless Mike
Nope. Because, like I said, you can't determine the mass/KE of an FTL object, and some people in comics can tank planet destroying punches.

carver9
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Nope. Because, like I said, you can't determine the mass/KE of an FTL object, and some people in comics can tank planet destroying punches.

So some people can tank planetary punches coming to them at 100 times the speed of light? Scans?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
So some people can tank planetary punches coming to them at 100 times the speed of light? Scans?

Scans first that the extra speed makes them any more powerful.

Endless Mike
It really wouldn't. Just harder to avoid.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Scans first that the extra speed makes them any more powerful.

I don't think any of this...this is Mike mixing real world logic with comic books.

carver9
Originally posted by Endless Mike
If you really wanted to calculate how much energy an FTL object would have, you would have to:

- Observe FTL objects hitting things in real life
- Develop a mathematical formula from those observations
- Use it to calculate the energy

According to all the physics we know, matter/energy moving FTL just isn't possible. So we can't calculate how much power/energy an FTL object would have.

You might as well try to use science to attach a number to Mr. Mxyzptlk making 2 + 2 = fish.

Endless Mike
You do realize that that post you just quoted disproves your previous argument, right?

Of course you don't.

carver9
Originally posted by Endless Mike
You do realize that that post you just quoted disproves your previous argument, right?

Of course you don't.

Real world logic doesn't equal comic book logic.

DarkSaint85
Mike knows this - he said:



You then come up with an example of Glads. Which, as Mike said, CANNOT be quantified.

Agree with you 100% carver, that real world logic does not equal comic book logic, but only sometimes. There is still an inherent set of rules within comic books that is SOMETIMES the same as in the real world.

Mindset
Well, anyway, Iron Fist beats them.

Stoic
Originally posted by Endless Mike
It really wouldn't. Just harder to avoid.

In other words any object made of matter has no business moving or even approaching the speed of light due to the laws of friction, and if by chance matter was to be moving at such a speed, it would likely break up upon contact. molecules being what they are and all, nothing is truly solid. However being encased within the Speed Force allows for Character A to destroy Character B upon contact while moving at light speed. The Flash is a beast. smile

Endless Mike
Originally posted by Stoic
In other words any object made of matter has no business moving or even approaching the speed of light due to the laws of friction

Relativity, actually.



Speedforce lets you basically say "screw you" to physics, problem is that if you do that, then you can't exactly use physics to predict how hard he's going to be hitting someone, unless the events of the comic make it clear that they're being used.

For example, IMP, which was used at just under the speed of light. Could he do it while moving over the speed of light? I don't know - maybe? Probably?

Would it be any more powerful? Not necessarily.

Uriel005
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Careful Stoic, you're veering into using real world logic and applying it to comics...

But EndlessMike is right. As you approach lightspeed, you approach infinity.

Twice lightspeed does not mean twice infinity, and even if it did, its kinda meaningless.

Back to the issue at hand. Although Flash travels at multiples of lightspeed, I don't think it means he has multiples of infinite mass behind his punches. So it would do the same damage as a lightspeed IMP, IMO. actually as his speed continuously grows it doesn't really matter much about the mass. If this were say Barry entering speed force which follows no physics because the more he runs the more it grows the faster he can go continuing its growth while it can sustain him, his speed keeps growing and with that the amount of energy keeps amping up. If he were to keep pushing top speed and maxing out the force of the impact he would make would just keep going up and auto shields or no eventually hes going to be able to hit a point where he would absolutely shatter any shield you care to toss up. best most people could do is stalemate if they can start intangible.

But as for who beats Flash. Deadman could do it if the Flash stopped for a second. Invisibility + Intangibility + Possession. Also forget his name but the dude who basically stops incoming forms of energy including kinetic. just outright negates.

Endless Mike
Wundarr the Aquarian

Newjak
Originally posted by Stoic
Agreed, and understood.



Agreed, so there should most certainly be a rule against making CISless Flash threads, because his speed would never be able to be beaten. I mean who could ever outfight him, or react in time to stop him from beating them into molecules? While the Flash's are obviously the fastest characters they are by no means the only characters capable of hitting at FTL speeds.

Therefore there do exist other CISless beings as you defined capable of duplicating the effects of what Flash would be able to generate.

leonidas
ambrose chase. maybe aquarian.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Stoic
Agreed, so there should most certainly be a rule against making CISless Flash threads, because his speed would never be able to be beaten. I mean who could ever outfight him, or react in time to stop him from beating them into molecules? Classic Juggernaut? If not allowing for BFR, there's nothing they can do to him.Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Scans first that the extra speed makes them any more powerful. Originally posted by Endless Mike
It really wouldn't. Just harder to avoid. I understand your guys's arguments but I just realized something. Wouldn't the simple Force=Mass x Velocity apply? Thus going faster would give him a faster velocity, thus more force, correct?

Stoic
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Classic Juggernaut? If not allowing for BFR, there's nothing they can do to him. I understand your guys's arguments but I just realized something. Wouldn't the simple Force=Mass x Velocity apply? Thus going faster would give him a faster velocity, thus more force, correct?


Well then a non BFR match would negate the CISless of the match itself are my thoughts. If the Flash hit Cain at that speed he would turn him into a cosmic bullet that would careen off in one direction never to be seen again, and thus Flash would still win.


As for your other question/comment. In theory I would agree that more speed would equal more mass, but at that point as Mike pointed out, would not matter, because anything being hit at those speed would be crushed, or harmlessly passed through. If you really think about it, the laws of our reality would likely come apart at their seams at such impossible speeds and threaten to destroy anything of substance within it. Certain things just aren't meant to exist within restricted parameters is my guess. In my opinion, anything with the power of surpassing light speed would likely have the power of God, as in being above and beyond anything physical which in turn would reach into the realms of meta physics.

SouthSpawn
Ok, this is what annoys the hell out of me about speed guys.
Seriously, I HATE speed guys.

When it comes to speed guys. It sames like everyone just uses pure logic to give them victories.

Saying hey, no one can see them or react to them right?

Then if that was the case, I would say logically not even someone like Mxy should be able to beat the flash or zoom with CIS off.

Seriously, how can Mxy see them if they are moving so fast.

Big G and the Tyrant would lose to. How can they see them right?

It's a comic book. I tend to suspend realism.

Speed guys in comics do get hit by slower guys all the time.

Ok, I am done with my rant lol.

Let the flaming on my post begin smile

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Stoic
Well then a non BFR match would negate the CISless of the match itself are my thoughts. If the Flash hit Cain at that speed he would turn him into a cosmic bullet that would careen off in one direction never to be seen again, and thus Flash would still win.


As for your other question/comment. In theory I would agree that more speed would equal more mass, but at that point as Mike pointed out, would not matter, because anything being hit at those speed would be crushed, or harmlessly passed through. If you really think about it, the laws of our reality would likely come apart at their seams at such impossible speeds and threaten to destroy anything of substance within it. Certain things just aren't meant to exist within restricted parameters is my guess. In my opinion, anything with the power of surpassing light speed would likely have the power of God, as in being above and beyond anything physical which in turn would reach into the realms of meta physics. How would BFR being off negate the CISless of the match?Originally posted by SouthSpawn
Ok, this is what annoys the hell out of me about speed guys.
Seriously, I HATE speed guys.

When it comes to speed guys. It sames like everyone just uses pure logic to give them victories.

Saying hey, no one can see them or react to them right?

Then if that was the case, I would say logically not even someone like Mxy should be able to beat the flash or zoom with CIS off.

Seriously, how can Mxy see them if they are moving so fast.

Big G and the Tyrant would lose to. How can they see them right?

It's a comic book. I tend to suspend realism.

Speed guys in comics do get hit by slower guys all the time.

Ok, I am done with my rant lol.

Let the flaming on my post begin smile Few things wrong with this.

First of all, Speed guys have no way of hurting Galactus, Tyrant, or Mxy. So no, they won't beat them.

2nd, this isn't a comic book fight. This is a forum fight. You're applying the specific CIS off principle of this specific forum fight to comic books, which in most cases, does not apply.

SouthSpawn
Originally posted by Black bolt z
How would BFR being off negate the CISless of the match? Few things wrong with this.

First of all, Speed guys have no way of hurting Galactus, Tyrant, or Mxy. So no, they won't beat them.

2nd, this isn't a comic book fight. This is a forum fight. You're applying the specific CIS off principle of this specific forum fight to comic books, which in most cases, does not apply.


Ok, Flash would be able to have a Draw against Big G and Mxy.
They can't catch him right smile smile

Anyhow, I still hate speed guys.
They are lame!!!! smile

Black bolt z
Originally posted by SouthSpawn
Ok, Flash would be able to have a Draw against Big G and Mxy.
They can't catch him right smile smile

Anyhow, I still hate speed guys.
They are lame!!!! smile Any 3 of those people would be capable of an omni-directional blast. So they would eventually be hit by the blast, with no way to hurt their enemies, speedsters would not be able to beat them with pure speed.

leonidas
they also all preceive reality in a way different from us. galactus would very likely be able to perceive them no matter how fast they go. that is something that is never really brought up in these speedster threads....

Mindset
Kinda like Iron Fist.

bluewaterrider
The standard method of attack seems to be "blitz with high speed punches" for the Flash side here.

I'd be interested to know how people think Flash would fare, then, against:


1) Sebastian Shaw. His power is to become stronger when hit by anything, whether the punches of Colossus, full power blasts by Cyclops or ... a book pounded on his own head all night.
If Flash starts out with an infinite mass punch to start this fight, as some are suggesting, well, that would equate to an amazingly powerful Shaw JUST after that first hit, let alone if Flash is packing punches in bunches ...

2) Maddrox, the Multiple Man. This guy actually MULTIPLIES when physically struck. Hit him 5 times and you get 5 more Maddroxs.
A billion hits from the Flash ...?
(If this is in an enclosed area, someone's probably going to get SQUASHED by their own actions before long...)

3) Amazo. A remarkable machine that can duplicate the abilities of virtually any opponent, including, theoretically Flash himself.
What happens when Flash fights someone with his same powerset but more durability?

Galan007
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
1) Sebastian Shaw. His power is to become stronger when hit by anything, whether the punches of Colossus, full power blasts by Cyclops or ... a book pounded on his own head all night.
If Flash starts out with an infinite mass punch to start this fight, as some are suggesting, well, that would equate to an amazingly powerful Shaw JUST after that first hit, let alone if Flash is packing punches in bunches ...


3) Amazo. A remarkable machine that can duplicate the abilities of virtually any opponent, including, theoretically Flash himself.
What happens when Flash fights someone with his same powerset but more durability? shaw has been incapacitated by punches less potent than an IMP-- namor, for instance, ultimately beat the crap out of him.

amazo can, and has, duplicated flash's speed. he has also used said speed, along with his other duplicated abilities, to own the entire JLA (flash included.)

Uriel005
Originally posted by Black bolt z
How would BFR being off negate the CISless of the match? Few things wrong with this.

First of all, Speed guys have no way of hurting Galactus, Tyrant, or Mxy. So no, they won't beat them.

2nd, this isn't a comic book fight. This is a forum fight. You're applying the specific CIS off principle of this specific forum fight to comic books, which in most cases, does not apply. yet they have all been rocked by physical impacts... ergo they can be hurt and the flashes can hurt them.. and continue to hurt them with impunity.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Uriel005
yet they have all been rocked by physical impacts... ergo they can be hurt and the flashes can hurt them.. and continue to hurt them with impunity. When has Galactus ever been rocked by a physical impact, and where is there proof that someone of Galactus's caliber CAN be hurt by Flash?

CosmicComet
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, a severely handicapped Danny who's limited himself to mere herald status can beat these two jokers.

Ok. Ok.

Enough. Enough please.

Danny might be The Son. Doom the Father. And Johnny Blaze the holy ghost.

But together they are just but an aspect of God himself;
Barry Allen.

Mindset
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Ok. Ok.

Enough. Enough please.

Danny might be The Son. Doom the Father. And Johnny Blaze the holy ghost.

But together they are just but an aspect of God himself;
Barry Allen. Shut up, chomper.

CosmicComet
Please, child, mind your blasphemous tongue.

PillarofOsiris
Usually the only argument people have against "speed kills" is they hate speedsters, or "i hate it when people act like speed is the be all end all". But what I'd love to see is an actual argument that someone like Hulk, Thing, Red Hulk, etc could even hit an all out Flash. It's just not possible. He wouldn't get a thunderclap off. I don't mean to bash the Hulk here, but it's the easiest example to use.

As for this thread, Superman definitely could be beat the Flash, especially depending on how far apart they start. Superman can get airborn before Flash can get to him, or maybe some other option.

ColossusGrundy
Me.....

I'm that fast.....

That sound behind you in your house right then? That was me making sure you read this.

I'm already back.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Mindset
Shut up, chomper.

Stoic
Originally posted by Black bolt z
How would BFR being off negate the CISless of the match?


Well in a CISless match I get the feeling that anything goes, and BFR off ironically goes against an anything goes match up, whether it be in a comic setting (scripted without the implication of CIS and the stupidity that such implies) or a forum battle.


Originally posted by Mindset
Kinda like Iron Fist.

Yeah he's invincible if you forget the time that he nearly broke his hand while hitting Hiroim, or the time that the Hulk caught and nearly crushed the iron out of his fist. Aside from that yep he's a monster. big grin shifty

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Stoic
Well in a CISless match I get the feeling that anything goes, and BFR off ironically goes against an anything goes match up, whether it be in a comic setting (scripted without the implication of CIS and the stupidity that such implies) or a forum battle.
CIS is just character induced stupidity. Its the reason that Superman doesn't kill or Flash doesn't speed-blitz the second the bell rings. It has nothing to do with anything goes.

Galan007
thought i should post this:
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12814134_f1.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12814135_f2.jpg

speedsters are, and have always been, a threat to EVERY type of villain... event the cosmic sort.

gog still beats them, though.

Mindset
To DC cosmics, because they suck.

Galan007
if marvel actually had speedsters, they'd be rocking cosmics too. instead, they just use sinister to get the job done.

christ marvel is horrible these days.

Mindset
Odin would headbutt Flash into oblivion, let alone a real cosmic.

Get real, buddy.

Galan007
mmm




......












touche.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by Galan007
thought i should post this:
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12814134_f1.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12814135_f2.jpg

speedsters are, and have always been, a threat to EVERY type of villain... event the cosmic sort.

gog still beats them, though.

Why does Gog beat them?

His best stated speed is being able to react between nanoseconds.

CIS off, Barry is >>>>> beyond that.

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by Galan007
if marvel actually had speedsters, they'd be rocking cosmics too. instead, they just use sinister to get the job done.

christ marvel is horrible these days.

I agree. It's been getting worse and worse. DC's new 52 is absolutely dominating Marvel in terms of story and art these days. The stories are great (so far fairly consistent) and the colors are crisp and bright, like DC should be (except for Batman, etc).

Mr.SunKing
Shaman Nate..

Galan007
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Why does Gog beat them?

His best stated speed is being able to react between nanoseconds.

CIS off, Barry is >>>>> beyond that. this is why:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12815206_g1.jpg

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I agree. It's been getting worse and worse. DC's new 52 is absolutely dominating Marvel in terms of story and art these days. The stories are great (so far fairly consistent) and the colors are crisp and bright, like DC should be (except for Batman, etc). yeah, after hickman leaves f4/ff in a few months, i will no longer be reading any marvel books consistently.

Mindset
No you won't.

Galan007
no i won't.

DarkSaint85
Indeed, he won't.

8swords
a naked emma frost could..

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.