Jedi and attachments

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Arhael
My aim is to show how emotions can make immensely powerful Force user out of a character with seemingly inferior potential, when they come from attachments.

As the main source of analysis I gonna use Rebel Stand by Aaron Allston.
In the book Luke encounters a product of Emperial experiment. A Force user who's potential enormously enchanted by cyber implants in his brain and other experiments. I would even go as far as dare to say that his power surpasses even Palpatine and Luke and not by a small margin.
images.wikia.com/starwars/images/c/c8/Lord_Nyax.jpg
I will start from combat feats and after will try to explain what part emotions play in it:
"Nyax lunged toward Luke.

Luke raised his lightsaber, caught the downward sweep of Lord Nyax's right-hand forearm weapon. He spun clockwise, narrowing his profile as the left-hand forearm blade thrust toward him, and kept his guard up in time to intercept the right-hand elbow blade. Mara leapt forward, unleashing two fast blows that the thing's left-elbow blade caught, then folded over nearly double as she leaped back from a strike from its left knee.

The Yuuzhan Vong warriors unloaded handfuls of thudbags and razorbags, heedless of which of the targets they might hit, but the two Jedi and Lord Nyax flicked the weapons out of the air or dodged them entirely.

Two Jedi? Three. Suddenly Tahiri was in their midst, coming up on Luke's left, blocking a follow-up blow from the elbow blade on that side." - Three Jedi attacking him simultaneously couldn't do a thing to him and he still paid attention to Vong and blocked bugs flying at him, which were void in the Force.

"Denua Ku watched the pale jeedai, and for a moment admiration almost drowned out the revulsion he felt at the notion of having abomination-machines like light-sabers touching one's own flesh.

The pale thing fought with a savagery and speed unlike those of any warrior he had ever seen. And it was untrained. With his experienced warrior's eye, he could see that its movements were instinctive, a fact revealed in the creature's failure to throw effective combinations of blows, its inability to gauge which way its enemies would leap when it attacked them.

If it had been born Yuuzhan Vong, if he'd been able to train it for a year, even half a year, he could have turned this thing into the greatest warrior who was not himself a god. As it was, he'd have to kill this thing.

Even if the Jeedai, too, wanted it dead, it was still an abomination. And it was the greater threat. It had to die first. He threw his last razorbag, then lunged forward into hand-to-hand range, probing at the pale thing's back with the tail-tip of his amphistaff.

The pale thing spun, sending its knee blade toward Denua Ku's guts. He blocked the sweep with his amphistaff, but the impact was tremendous; it threw him back off his feet. He rolled backward and came upright, saw one of his warriors perform a similar probing assault... and this warrior took a forearm blade through the throat.

Nine Yuuzhan Vong warriors down. Sixteen to go. The numbers were becoming worse.
" - Luke is perhaps the strongest Jedi combatant known and he achieved his both skill and power through years and experience. Mara was another deadly combatant for obvious reasons. And Tahiri is another strong and skilled Jedi. Nyax on the other hand was "untrained" but his power was such that on lone instincts he could engage all of them simultaneously and even Vong's help doesn't make difference.
And it is still not limit of Nyax combat:
""It's a delaying tactic!" Mara shouted over the roar.

"I know!" Luke shouted back. "It's working! I'm being delayed!" He stopped a forearm-swing and was driven back a step, stopped the follow-up elbow swing and was driven back a step, jumped back to avoid the knee-strike and discovered it was only a feint; Lord Nyax's leg snapped back and caught a Yuuzhan Vong warrior in the crotch, collapsing the warrior despite its armor.

Every step took the Jedi and the warriors toward the center of the chamber. The floor vibrated beneath their feet.

"What?" Mara said.

"I didn't say anything!"

"Not you! Speak up, Face!

Luke waved Mara back. She jumped up and backward in a somersault, taking her out of Lord Nyax's range, and took out her comlink, holding it up to her ear. Tahiri took her place, swinging her lightsaber defensively, eyes wide as she analysed her attacker's motions and patterns.

Unable to hear, Mara bit off a curse. She tucked her comlink away and jumped back into the fight, deflected a pair of thudbugs, took a swipe at Lord Nyax's hand; its arm rotated and it caught the attack on its lightsaber blade.

Luke flipped over the pale thing, striking as he went; his blow was blocked.

Tahiri, in front, lunged forward... and stumbled, right into the path of a knee blade. Mara reached out, an effort to shove with the Force, knowing that she was too late, knowing that the knee-blade would emerge in a fraction of a second from the back of Tahiri's skull-but Tahiri whipped to the side, still in control, still in balance, even as Luke crashed feetfirst into Lord Nyax's neck, forcing its head down toward its own knee-blade.

The blade turned itself off. Lord Nyax's head passed through empty space. Luke, backflipping to his feet, offered up an expression of bafflement and frustration.

Mara sighed. It had been a feint, an effort to trick the thing into spearing itself with its own weapons. But its designers had been too thorough. There were fail-safes." - Fight went on and on and still combined effort of 3 Jedi and 16 Yuuzhan Vong was not enough to take him down. Clearly his combat is superior to any known character. Moreover, despite combined effort Luke was still driven back. Next question is if he was 3 meters tall, so much more powerful, stronger physically and faster and had 8 lightsabers how Luke managed to defend himself at all? One explanation is obviously help from others but wait a second didn't he start fighting alone? Answer is also obvious. It is Luke. Iconic figure. He sustains anything and takes on any one. But what about Mara? She had trouble beating Lumya and and one handed Alima Rar. How on earth is she able to block his attacks, when his strength arguably surpasses even Savage Opress and his power - everyone but Abeloth? And how about Tahiri, which is even below Mara?

The answer lies in emotions. Before fight began Nyax attempted to mind dominate them.

His mind domination, while distracted by Yuuzhan Vong: "Lord Nyax's smile grew broader. It seemed to recognize Luke's intent, even if it could not grasp his words.

Then it answered-not in words, but in images. Luke saw the power of its will, expressed through the Force, rolling over the remaining people of Coruscant like water roaring down a canyon through a burst dam. He saw them sweeping across Coruscant, killing and eating everything in their way-the Yuuzhan Vong, the disobedient, the Force-blind. He saw the workers here boarding the machine beneath their feet, crashing it through kilometers of buildings until they came to some place, a source for more power to fuel this glorious, deliriously happy destructive impulse.

In that instant, Luke joined in the plan. He longed to slaughter the outsiders, those who did not understand or join. He longed to taste their flesh,

He turned to Mara, beckoning her to join. She was facing the Yuuzhan Vong warriors, preventing them from surprising Luke with an attack, but her gaze was yanked to Luke. Her eyes widened, and he could feel her leaning toward him, leaning toward acceptance of this crucial duty." - Luke got mind dominated and was even beakoning Mara to join. The last person who was able to mind dominate him was Palpatine himself and he was able to do it only because Luke was inexperienced andby exposing his emotions. After Luke broke his "spell", he was beyond Palpatine's influence. But Nyax dominated prime Luke, he simply Forced him to obey.

"But the sight of her brought memories. Luke saw worlds of beauty. He saw his son, composed of Luke and Mara and years to come. Around the edges of Lord Nyax's command he felt the Force, its other natures, the life from which it flowed.

He turned back toward Lord Nyax and struggled to find the words to express his thought. "I... stand... in... your... way." - Now what would happen, if Mara wasn't there? His chances of breaking free would be miserably low. What would happen, if Luke like old prohibited attachments like Old Order? He would simply be unable to resist mind domination without strong positive emotions like love for Mara and his son. With no attachments he would simply not have comparably strong purpose to drive him beyond limits.

"It was the Jedi way. Jedi did not attack. But to position oneself in the path of a violent aggressor who would not yield achieved the same result.

All he could ever do as leader of the wartime Jedi was lead them into the path of the enemy. That was, Luke realized, perhaps his greatest limitation, and in struggling against it without understanding it, he may have hampered the Jedi effectiveness against the enemy.

But once recognized and accepted, it was also perhaps his greatest strength. Whether by accident or design, by his own will or by the permutations of the Force, he had always found his way into the path of the great enemies of all things living.

And here he was again. "I stand in your way," Luke repeated, and was pleased that he had regained control over his voice. "What you see, you will not achieve." " - And even more positive emotions! These are all sorts of emotions: love, duty, morals - this is what drives Jedi beyond limits and this is why Luke could fight even someone obviously so superior as Nyax.

Arhael
But it wasn't Nyax's full mental power:

"Lord Nyax leapt free of the center of their formation, bounding up over the head of the red-haired female. He hit the stone wall feetfirst, shoved off, and rotated to a landing many steps away from the three pests.

Then he made a thought and drove it into their heads.

It hit Luke like a razorbug fired straight through his forehead. Luke staggered under the pain. His back hit the irregular floor. He waved his lightsaber up in front of him, a defensive form, but there was no follow-up blow for him to counter.

There was, however, a new priority. He was to switch off his lightsaber and then go attack the Yuuzhan Vong. He leapt to his feet and turned his weapon off. He could see Mara and Tahiri doing the same." - Again Luke briefly got mind dominated. Vitiate's mind domination pales in comparison. Revan felt Vitiate doing it and had time to counter it. In this case it is instant, it cannot be anticipated. Moreover, Nyax did this mental attack on all three simultaneously, which makes it much more potent.

"But that would mean dying-and, worse, failing.

No, it's what he had to do.

No, he couldn't do that.

He stood, frozen by the dilemma, straining against the thought that filled his mind, the thought that was slowly driving out every other consideration.
So he did what he had to whenever he was confused. He reached out, touching Mara in the Force. He didn't have to open his mind to her; his mind was as open as it could be, held open by Lord Nyax's thought. He just had to reach for her, and she was there, locked in as much confusion and pain as he.

She had no answer for him. He reached for Tahiri and found her to be identically immobile." - Luke attempted to unite effort but they couldn't even respond.

"He felt Lord Nyax grow impatient, then angry, and Lord Nyax expressed his anger through pain. Luke felt his fingers and toes, hands and feet, shins and forearms explode. He fell, writhing, then stared in amazement as he realized that his limbs were still attached-the pain was real, but no injury had caused it. He could feel Mara's pain, feel Tahiri's.

There was something different about Tahiri's. He looked over to where she lay.

She was rolling to her stomach, forcing her way to her feet. Off-balance, weaving as she stood, she nevertheless managed to pick up her lightsaber and ignite it. She looked at Nyax, anger blazing in her eyes. "I know something about pain you don't," she said. "Pain drowns other people. I just swim in it." She took a step toward her tormenter.

Luke could feel Nyax's anger, his moment of confusion. And though Luke couldn't move, he could act. He reached out through the Force and grabbed the stone that Nyax had tried to use against him moments earlier. He jerked it toward his enemy." - This passage proves that power difference doesn't really matter. Mara's will is as strong as Luke's, neither of them is better. And Tahiri - inferior to both Jedi Masters showed better resistance than both of them. Even after Nyax had moment of confusion, Luke was still immobile.

" This time, Luke was ready for it. He'd had a moment to center his thoughts and, most important, emotions. He was ready with his memories of Tahiri, all the times he'd been delighted as she'd made another gain in her study of the Force, all the hopes he'd had for her future and happiness. He could hold up like a shield his memory of her love for his nephew Anakin Solo. All those memories blunted Nyax's attack, shattered its speartip.

Luke reached for Mara again and found her similarly armored, but with logic, not emotion. Running through her mind was a cold calculation of allies and opponents, actions and consequences. Uppermost in it was a realization that Nyax could rule any individual, and out of individuals whole galaxies were made.

But deep beneath the analysis was a stream of emotion, an awareness of their son Ben, of what he would be if Nyax could find him and shape him." - Again we see what big difference emotions play.

Luke came up on shaky legs, felt Mara doing the same. And though Nyax was not letting up on the pain-energy, it affected Luke less now. He could feel Tahiri's part in that, the way she opened herself to the pain, was not daunted by it, was not shut down by it.

They faced Nyax as a single creature. The part of them that was Mara rejected the false truths Nyax tried to impose upon them. The part of them that was Luke rejected the false hatreds, the lying enmities. The part that was Tahiri made the pain part of what they were, a fuel for their strength.

Nyax looked between them, and a flicker of distress, a childlike expression of fear, crossed his features." - It took combined effort of three Jedi with very strong will to overcome Nyax's mental attack, I doubt even Abeloth's mental power is that strong.

This fight explicitly shows how positive emotions are important. And most important what part attachments play in it. And this theme is supported throughout entire SW starting from Vader being redeemed.

Jaina in fight with Jacen:
"She dropped to the floor screaming in rage and anguish, her nostrils filled with the stench of singed hair and charred skin, the black GAG utilities still burning on her back.

Then Jaina opened herself fully to the Force, drawing it in through the power of her emotions-not through her anger or pain, as a Sith might, but through her love of what her brother had been:the teenage jokester who could always find hope in a desperate situation, the questioning warrior who had bested the Yuuzhan Vong warmaster in personal combat, the reluctant champion who had shown a galaxy the way to compassionate victory.

The Force came pouring in from all sides, saturating Jaina and devouring her, filling her with a roaring maelstrom of power, carrying away her pain and leaving in its place the strength not only to survive, but to rise and fight"

Luke fighting Abeloth:
"Luke opened himself more fully to the Force, using his love for Ben and
his lost wife and the entire Jedi Order to draw it into him. The foul miasma of dark side energy, still swirling into Abeloth, seeped into him, filling him with greasy nausea. But the light side rushed in, flowing in from all sides, pouring through him like fire. A golden glow began to rise from his skin—
cells literally bursting with the power of the Force—and Luke felt them both start upward again"

In DE people keep making unsupported assumptions that Leia was using battle meditation or even empowered Luke during duel. But why would he need it? She gave him emotional support, she reached him and helped him to cast off darkness, to understand his mistakes. All she did is helped him to experience right emotions, so he could draw on them.

Even Hero of Thython unlike all other Jedi had love attachment. And his romantic story concludes right before he confronts Vitiate.

I hope these walls of text weren't too boring and useless. In the least I brought some insight into how mind domination works and how it can be resisted.

Nephthys
Gee, I'm so sure that your reasons for making this thread have nothing to do with anything.

Originally posted by Arhael
Even Hero of Thython unlike all other Jedi had love attachment. And his romantic story concludes right before he confronts Vitiate.

False. This isn't canon. It is entirely possible to play the game without doing a romance. Particularly in the Jedi Knights case since a romance gives you darkside points.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Nephthys
a romance gives you darkside points. What, you can sex it up with Bastila or Carth in KotOR, but circa TOR romance is evil? F*ckin' Bioware.

Nephthys
The rational is that you're deliberately breaking the rules against non-attachment and defying the Order.

Lord Lucien
I don't get the rational that defying an institution is synonymous with turning to evil.

Nephthys
There were some arguments over it on the Swtor forums. The TOR-era Jedi (I.E. Bioware) seem to be seriously strict about attachment and love, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was some vows that you're breaking in forming attachments.

Hilariously, it is possible to get married and have children as a Jedi in the TOR-era, but the Jedi send a representative to your house every few months to make sure that you haven't become attached to your wife/husband/children. Its really bizarre. Hell, Satele Shan has a kid, but gave him away due to the code against attachments.


Also in the game it is possible to do the romance without getting darkside points, but all the kissing options and ones that imply that your character does in fact have functioning genitals give you them. My character was darkside anyway, but I was going to wait until gay romances were implimented so i could bone Kira. She's so cute. <3

Lord Lucien
The writing team behind that game sound drunk.


And am I the only one who thinks the name 'Kira' is used to often?

Nephthys
Don't make me hit you LL. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif

Go apologise to mai waifu Kira.

Lord Lucien
Nevah!

Nephthys
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll297/jhongx/Kira_Death-Note.jpg

Arhael
Originally posted by Nephthys
The rational is that you're deliberately breaking the rules against non-attachment and defying the Order.
Hmm, in Kotor you get lightside points for romances.
Anyway, even darksiders can still draw power from lightside emotions.

"He opened himself completely to the Force, drawing it in through the power not of his anger or fear-he was too exhausted and sad to feel either-but through his faith in his destiny, through the love that gave him the strength to serve that destiny.... through his love not only of Allana but also of Tenel Ka, of Luke and Ben and even Mara, of Jaina and his parents and all the others who had betrayed him, of his allies and enemies and his dead mentors. He drew the Force in through his love of them all, of the entire galaxy he was sacrificing himself to save.

The pain remained, but with it came the strength Caedus needed to remain conscious."

Q99
I find if you attach two jedi together they complain a lot.

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