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1. H2H fight in boxing ring from Snatch
2. Melee fight in the Initech office building from Office Space
3. Gunfight in 42nd St. Subway Station

We'll have to see the film first do decide, no?

A few clips from a trailer doesn't let us see what Cross is capable of.

lestov you beat me to this, i was gonna to this sunday after i saw it

I'm gonna say tentatively Aaron Cross, based on what I've heard and seen so far from the trailers.

IDK, actually, because apparently Aaron was an idiot and the bio-augmentation amped his intelligence and physical stats, so he may have needed the meds just to get to Bourne's level, so whether he surpasses him is unclear



Somebody pay your hard-earned 10 dollars for a ticket so you can tell me the answer!!

Originally posted by Lestov16
IDK, actually, because apparently Aaron was an idiot and the bio-augmentation amped his intelligence and physical stats, so he may have needed the meds just to get to Bourne's level, so whether he surpasses him is unclear



Somebody pay your hard-earned 10 dollars for a ticket so you can tell me the answer!!

i will on sunday, although im only paying $5 dollars

Has anyone seen this film yet>

Damn lets wait till the film is released anywhere before threads are made!

After seeing the film I'll say Cross. His physical and mental amplification is beyond even Bourne's. He also doesn't have the psychological issues that plagued Bourne and his counterparts. He's an enhanced super-soldier and literally doesn't put a foot wrong when taking someone down. I'll wait until more people have seen this to discuss because part of the argument will be a spoiler, but Bourne is not quite at Cross' level.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
After seeing the film I'll say Cross. His physical and mental amplification is beyond even Bourne's. He also doesn't have the psychological issues that plagued Bourne and his counterparts. He's an enhanced super-soldier and literally doesn't put a foot wrong when taking someone down. I'll wait until more people have seen this to discuss because part of the argument will be a spoiler, but Bourne is not quite at Cross' level.

Does he actually have HF? As shown in the trailer?

Healing factor? Yes, sort of. He heals somewhat faster than normal, but the main thing is that he heals pretty much completely; pretty much no scarring or loss of feeling/function due to nerve damage that others might experience.

Yeah I got that from the trailer.

Speed is key. Yet a handy ability regardless. Gives him time to chip his enemy down.

Well the film does a good job of showing just how much his enhancements increase his prowess, especially mentally. They make sure that you understand how much beyond Treadstone and Blackbriar these operatives are.

There was one feature of every previous Bourne film that wasn't in this one and I wasn't too happy about it. Cross never engages any other enhanced soldiers in hand-to-hand. Those visceral, intense scenes do the most to speak to how far beyond even the best regular soldiers these operatives are in all the previous films. I was awaiting it the entire time and wasn't very happy that it never went down. Regardless, there's not really any doubt that he and all the others in his cadre are better than even Bourne.

I don't know. He didn't have any problems at all in combat. None....

However, Bourne would tend to face a near-equal to him in each of his three films. Cross has no such competition here.

There's no question that Cross is physically superior though.

That was something I was disappointed about as well, but Bourne was injured when going up against the hit squad at the end of the first film. Cross didn't even take a scratch when it was 4 v 1.

I'd actually give this match to Bourne Cross fought nothing but mooks which in no way impressed me and there is nothing to verify his supposed super skills.

The only time he came into contact with someone even close to his level he ended up shot multiple times and needed to be bailed out.

Originally posted by McNasty996
I'd actually give this match to Bourne Cross fought nothing but mooks which in no way impressed me and there is nothing to verify his supposed super skills.

The only time he came into contact with someone even close to his level he ended up shot multiple times and needed to be bailed out. He shot the other guy too, and the only reason he needed to be bailed out is because he was trying to save a broad. Had he been on his own it would have been a completely different fight.

Originally posted by Mindset
He shot the other guy too, and the only reason he needed to be bailed out is because he was trying to save a broad. Had he been on his own it would have been a completely different fight.

He did and the other guy was still going strong and got plot killed by the woman. We don't know what would of happened but we must go by what we were given and he showed nothing against anything but mooks

Cross got plot shot because of the woman.

And the people sent to kill the doc weren't mooks...

Originally posted by McNasty996
He did and the other guy was still going strong and got plot killed by the woman. We don't know what would of happened but we must go by what we were given and he showed nothing against anything but mooks
The hit squad for the chick was top tier. Again, it's equivalent to those Bourne faced at the end of the first film. Bourne was injured during his fight, where as Cross jogged through everyone like it was a training exercise. I absolutely loved Bourne's character, but the film made a point of noting over and over that those in the programs after his are above and beyond in every way. Bourne was psych-molded into a killing machine to the point that he has permanent mental instability; Cross, his counterparts, and those from LARX are genetically-enhanced super-soldiers. You can try and see it however you want but they are on another level. Did you miss the jump from the stand, the survival skills, the healing, and the perfect hand-to-hand combat abilities? None of the hit team even laid a hand on Cross. Bourne is still my favorite but Cross is superior without doubt.

Originally posted by Mindset
Cross got plot shot because of the woman.

And the people sent to kill the doc weren't mooks...

Then the only reason he isn't a drooling mess sitting in an apartment in the middle of nowhere mumbling "Didney Worl" is also plot also by that logic, he needed the woman and he couldn't out maneuver who was following him

And calling a team your best makes them no more than glorified mooks without feats to back them up.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
The hit squad for the chick was top tier. Again, it's equivalent to those Bourne faced at the end of the first film. Bourne was injured during his fight, where as Cross jogged through everyone like it was a training exercise. I absolutely loved Bourne's character, but the film made a point of noting over and over that those in the programs after his are above and beyond in every way. Bourne was psych-molded into a killing machine to the point that he has permanent mental instability; Cross, his counterparts, and those from LARX are genetically-enhanced super-soldiers. You can try and see it however you want but they are on another level. Did you miss the jump from the stand, the survival skills, the healing, and the perfect hand-to-hand combat abilities? None of the hit team even laid a hand on Cross. Bourne is still my favorite but Cross is superior without doubt.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't at the beginning of the film they eliminate the "top tier" and he faced no one else from any of the programs and "jogging" through security guards and random police is no big feat. The only time he came up against anyone from any of the other programs he was shot and ultimately incapable of defending himself.

And his healing was mentioned once in a flashback which we never saw the capability of, Bourne displayed similar if not better survival skills, and his HTH capabilities were tested against no one special.

Bourne faced off with those inside his program who had been through the same thing he did and it was explicitly mentioned to boot, Quality vs. Quantity


I apologize for the double post

Top tier hit squad, as in the best regular hitters the agencies had to offer, same as what Bourne faced in France. Cross glided through, Bourne limped away.

Bourne would have been cooked in India had he not switched seats with Marie, so one shot does not decide everything. He was, however, caught unaware and shot successfully by the Russian later. Cross only ended up shot because he was protecting the Doctor..

I do agree that he should have faced off against the killer from LARX, though. As I said, those scenes were the hallmark of the previous films and more or less did the most to flesh out Bourne's acuity.

Every single analyst in the movie describes Cross' program as beyond Bourne's and LARX as the successor to that. Cross cake-walked the hit squad and was untouched by any of the security teams he ran up against. Bourne did well also, but he wasn't unscathed by his encounters.

Cross is basically all the good of Bourne amplified with none of the side effects. He freaking heard a drone coming miles out in the middle of a storm. His sensory ability, perception, reaction time, and every bit of genetic make up outclasses Bourne. I'm not going to discuss his HF further because I think we've already put out enough of the film's action, but the scene that follows the tracker incident more than speaks to how quickly is back to near 100% and what 100% is for Cross.

Wow.....quickly onto making a vs thread featuring the new Bourne movie.

Doesn't Cross get shot multiple times?

No. Only once.

I just saw the film and quite honestly, I'm still going to say Bourne takes it. Cross didn't do anything I can't see Bourne replicating, and also, at the beginning they say Bourne was the "first generation off the meds", which I take to mean that he was "viraled out" as well as Cross, which is supported by the fact that they both attended the same Alaskan training camp, since Bourne etched his name in the wood.

Your ideas on Bourne are misguided: Bourne was never in a viral program; that's the whole reason that one analyst wanted to get a hold of him if he were captured or killed. They had no genetic samples from him. He was simply a capable soldier who was honed into a weapon to unleash on the "right" people.

Originally posted by McNasty996
Then the only reason he isn't a drooling mess sitting in an apartment in the middle of nowhere mumbling "Didney Worl" is also plot also by that logic, he needed the woman and he couldn't out maneuver who was following him

And calling a team your best makes them no more than glorified mooks without feats to back them up. That's completely irrelevant to anything in this thread.

We are taking Cross at his best, not what he would have been degraded down to. He was shot because he was protecting the doctor, which doesn't help your case in this debate. He couldn't outmaneuver the person who was chasing him because of the woman...

No, it makes them highly trained operatives.

Still, I was unimpressed by Cross, and even if Cross is physically superior, so was arguably Desh and the other Blackbriar operatives, and Bourne overcame them

Originally posted by Lestov16
Still, I was unimpressed by Cross, and even if Cross is physically superior, so was arguably Desh and the other Blackbriar operatives, and Bourne overcame them Why would they be superior to Bourne?

Bourne has better h2h feats, though, until/if Cross gets some more I'd take him.

Cross taking down a predator drone with one shot and wrestling with that wolf was badass though.

It's a shame that he can have a fight with a wolf for some diversion, but he can't have a final grudge match with LARX-3


But still, I think Bourne is more impressive. Aaron doesn't seem like a "book-to-throat" kind of guy

Yeah. I'm pretty sure Bourne takes it.

Cross does not have feats against someone of his/Jason's level. The one guy that was supposed to be a hybrid between Treadstone and Outcome agents died without engaging Cross hand to hand. Not only that, he got killed because Cross had help.

Wow. The more I think about it, the more I realize how much this movie sucked......

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Top tier hit squad, as in the best regular hitters the agencies had to offer, same as what Bourne faced in France. Cross glided through, Bourne limped away.

Bourne would have been cooked in India had he not switched seats with Marie, so one shot does not decide everything. He was, however, caught unaware and shot successfully by the Russian later. Cross only ended up shot because he was protecting the Doctor..

I do agree that he should have faced off against the killer from LARX, though. As I said, those scenes were the hallmark of the previous films and more or less did the most to flesh out Bourne's acuity.

Every single analyst in the movie describes Cross' program as beyond Bourne's and LARX as the successor to that. Cross cake-walked the hit squad and was untouched by any of the security teams he ran up against. Bourne did well also, but he wasn't unscathed by his encounters.

Cross is basically all the good of Bourne amplified with none of the side effects. He freaking heard a drone coming miles out in the middle of a storm. His sensory ability, perception, reaction time, and every bit of genetic make up outclasses Bourne. I'm not going to discuss his HF further because I think we've already put out enough of the film's action, but the scene that follows the tracker incident more than speaks to how quickly is back to near 100% and what 100% is for Cross.

And we saw how good the "regulars" no matter how good get treated unless they attack en masse. And yeah, Bourne would have been done but so would have Cross on multiple times.

Plot played roles in both of their lives and none ever described Cross's program as superior to Bourne's except in relation Larx-3.

And for all his supposed superiority to Bourne we have no idea how they compare in a face to face encounter. The drugs were meant to enhance him but we have no idea by how much or his base stats to begin with and hearing a drone coming is the only good feat coming out of any such enhancement.

Originally posted by Mindset
That's completely irrelevant to anything in this thread.

We are taking Cross at his best, not what he would have been degraded down to. He was shot because he was protecting the doctor, which doesn't help your case in this debate. He couldn't outmaneuver the person who was chasing him because of the woman...

No, it makes them highly trained operatives.

And his best got him shot twice trying to escape with the doctor, Bourne did the same thing and got away with his woman before.

And in "highly trained operatives" means all of jack without any feats backing up said boast. What does that mean Bourne was fighting then, milk men?

Yeah, Bourne takes it in the back when Cross sticks the knife in. Let's not forget that all of a few minutes after slicing himself open he takes on the wolf while prone with ease. His HF and pain suppression are far beyond anything that can be trained into the body. Let's also not forget his friend hopping down from the tree stand; even in snow that's not something you do without a breakfall. They are on another level.

It still just saddens me that they didn't make the most out of this, especially having Norton as the new heavy.

Jason Bourne wipes the floor using Cross as a blood soaked mop

Cross had unimpressed feats..

Originally posted by McNasty996


And his best got him shot twice trying to escape with the doctor, Bourne did the same thing and got away with his woman before.

And in "highly trained operatives" means all of jack without any feats backing up said boast. What does that mean Bourne was fighting then, milk men? He got shot once.

Bourne was facing inferior opponents and got shot.

It happens.

It means they are highly trained, as in, not mooks. Yes, that's exactly what I said, Bourne was fighting milkmen, maybe even on the same short bus you were on.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Yeah, Bourne takes it in the back when Cross sticks the knife in. Let's not forget that all of a few minutes after slicing himself open he takes on the wolf while prone with ease. His HF and pain suppression are far beyond anything that can be trained into the body. Let's also not forget his friend hopping down from the tree stand; even in snow that's not something you do without a breakfall. They are on another level.

It still just saddens me that they didn't make the most out of this, especially having Norton as the new heavy.

Yeah, he had good physical stats but no real hand to hand feats against people with "program-level" skill. In the end I think that this would be up to opinion in the sense of hype vs feats. But yeah movie was a shame, didn't display as much as it could have

Originally posted by Mindset
He got shot once.

Bourne was facing inferior opponents and got shot.

It happens.

It means they are highly trained, as in, not mooks. Yes, that's exactly what I said, Bourne was fighting milkmen, maybe even on the same short bus you were on.

He was shot twice, once in the shoulder and again in the hip. And the company is going to send in its B-team to take on Bourne?

And in that situation if I recall he was already surrounded in the hotel with men with automatic weapons and managed to escape while Cross with all his super senses didn't hear men in body armor and heavy weapons marching up the stairs and had to be warned by the woman and ran.

Every book in a movie is highly trained, shows of how badass they are. The only thing that separates them from a "dragon type" enemy is that they have no feats.

And insults are really uncalled for

Originally posted by McNasty996

He was shot twice, once in the shoulder and again in the hip. And the company is going to send in its B-team to take on Bourne?

And in that situation if I recall he was already surrounded in the hotel with men with automatic weapons and managed to escape while Cross with all his super senses didn't hear men in body armor and heavy weapons marching up the stairs and had to be warned by the woman and ran.

Every book in a movie is highly trained, shows of how badass they are. The only thing that separates them from a "dragon type" enemy is that they have no feats.

And insults are really uncalled for I only remember the hip, and he was shot by someone with presumably the same abilities as himself...a guy who shot down a predator drone from hundreds of yards away. The person who went after Cross > everyone who went after Bourne. If that makes them B-team, then I guess so.

It's called plot. Could also be the fact that he was in a bustling city and just recuperated from a virus that could have killed him.

Books aren't trained, silly. There are a difference between operatives sent out to kill someone, and your local neighborhood cop. They don't need feats to show they aren't mooks, their status shows that.

There wouldn't be need for insults if you didn't make stupid comments and try to pass them off as my stance...I even said Bourne wins, I never once argued for Cross.

Originally posted by McNasty996
Yeah, he had good physical stats but no real hand to hand feats against people with "program-level" skill. In the end I think that this would be up to opinion in the sense of hype vs feats. But yeah movie was a shame, didn't display as much as it could have




i agree i was expecting Bourne level feats and didn't really get that... I hope if their is a sequel he'll say better feats for Cross

Originally posted by Mindset
I only remember the hip, and he was shot by someone with presumably the same abilities as himself...a guy who shot down a predator drone from hundreds of yards away. The person who went after Cross > everyone who went after Bourne. If that makes them B-team, then I guess so.

It's called plot. Could also be the fact that he was in a bustling city and just recuperated from a virus that could have killed him.

Books aren't trained, silly. There are a difference between operatives sent out to kill someone, and your local neighborhood cop. They don't need feats to show they aren't mooks, their status shows that.

There wouldn't be need for insults if you didn't make stupid comments and try to pass them off as my stance...I even said Bourne wins, I never once argued for Cross.

All we can say for sure is that they are better shots but overall ability is still up in the air but I do concede at that point.

He was also in the middle of a snow storm when they heard the Drone and plot can be used to explain anything and everything

And a "mook" is anyone who works for a boss that displays no particular skill.

Painting you at a particular stance was not my intention and i apologize if i did. Just meant to give my opinion on the matter

As I've said the biggest piece missing from the film was Cross not going hand-to-hand with another super operative. Without question that was what showed Bourne's ridiculousness in both the films and the books. In the books he's a bit older and still manages to submit the national martial arts champion of China.

I still say Cross' program is superior considering that it's based on Treadstone and Black Briar, yet includes genetic enhancements. Until we see him taking on someone from LARX or whatever else though it's a matter of some arguing displayed potential vs displayed prowess. Regardless, the ease with which Bourne took down the squad at the Dr.'s house surpasses what Bourne did in the hotel at the end of the first film.

Thinking about it even more makes them not sending a top hitter after him from the get go all the more foolish. All the agencies involved know that even high-value targets have escaped drone strikes, so the odds of trained killers surviving are decent and then some. There was no reason that they shouldn't have had someone from LARX or Outcome there to sweep and make sure no one got out of that training camp, not to mention that it would have made the film more complete.

That movie, from a Bourne Trilogy perspective, was absolute fail. I still say Bourne takes it.

Rumors swirling for Cross and Bourne team up for a possible next movie. This would be an epic show down. But this fight would be a toss up.

the thing about cross is that he's genetically enhanced.. and when he was viraled off the blue chems, he was half way to larx-3.. i don't think anyone can make a sound call right now seeing as how cross' h2h and cqc skill are never shown against an agent with equal or superior capabilities, unlike bourne who had 3 movies to show off his abilities.. however, with that being said, i believe cross' programming is superior to that of jason bourne's.. which, in theory, makes cross better than bourne..

Originally posted by super pr*xy
i believe cross' programming is superior to that of jason bourne's.. which, in theory, makes cross better than bourne..

Again, that doesn't matter. Desh also had programming better than Bourne, and Bourne still overcame him in a fight

that is why i said "in theory".. never said cross can actually kick bourne's ass.. just "in theory"..

Originally posted by Lestov16
Again, that doesn't matter. Desh also had programming better than Bourne, and Bourne still overcame him in a fight
Desh was in a theoretically more stable program, but he was not genetically enhanced.

Bourne wins all 3 rounds

1) Bourne attended the alaskan training camp
2) Bourne was the best of the first gen. pre-med
3) Aaron attended the alaskan training camp, as did all Outcome soldiers.

Aaron Cross beat the training record by 2 days = Aaron Cross has, at least, superior endurance/wilderness survival skill than all Outcome soldiers + first gen pre-med (including Bourne)

This only leaves out LARX-3

One key factor not mentioned is talent.

We don't know how big the gap is between the two (or if there is one). Based on feats, Bourne is superior.

Performance enhancement doesn't mean everything. If I recall correctly, there were enhanced assets in the first Bourne movie, The Professor (Clive Owen) mentions having headaches when he doesn't take pills (implied in retrospect - great continuity from Bourne Legacy btw, too bad it sucked). Bourne was clearly the best asset they had at the time.

The other factor is experience. Bourne is a seasoned veteran, whereas I would assume Cross is just a rookie (as an asset) because he was completing the course at the start.

Regarding Cross breaking the record - he was able to do so because he took a risk with the mountain jump. And the reason he took such a risk was because he was trying to get out of the program. None of the previous agents knew there was a "record" and so no incentive for them to take risks to compete.

BTW, I wasn't impressed with LARX/Asian asset. Tried to be cool like Karl Urban/Kirill, but didn't have the goods.

Aaron fought a wolf.

A WOLF!

Doesn't count if it didn't have tri-lazor.

Man I'm off the charts today.

Bourne wins due to his unique experience and training

They had the same training.

Cross also had military training, I don't recall Bourne having that.

Anyway, Bourne wins because he has better feats.

Originally posted by Mindset
They had the same training.

Cross also had military training, I don't recall Bourne having that.

Anyway, Bourne wins because he has better feats.
Bourne was in the Army before being recruited to Treadstone.

Cool.

Cross is better at taking down lower-level agents but Bourne has better feats and he's used to fighting agents on his level, he wins. Cross has his best chance in the ring.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.