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ok so Cap's newish uru enhanced shield goes through the following:

Pre Reboot Superman hitting it

Thor charging Mjolnir and striking it

HOTM Hulk slamming it

Superboy Prime's Heat Vision

Silver Surfer point blank power cosmic blast

Thanos blasting it

Bonus: Classic Juggernaut rushes the shield. The shield will not move back no matter what unless broken. Does the shield stop Juggernauts momentum?

No one in the contest is holding back and will hit the shield with every bit of power they have. But only one attempt. Denting the shield is not enough, they have to break it. The list is no particular order just list who can or cannot break it.

Shield clears.

Hulk fists. That's about it.

durhulk

The only beings Ive seen damage or destory Caps Shield were Beyonder Doom, Thanos with the IG, RK Thor and Odins brother The Serpent. So Ill support Caps Shield clearing the above.

Shud clear all ..

Superboy prime's hv went through Superman's shoulder like he was a ghost. That means the hv was over a thousand times more powerful than Superman's durability. I doubt that the shield is a thousand or more times durable than Superman. Personally I'm not sure if the shield can withstand the core of a star for more than a few moments. We know Superman can, hell Superman can withstand black holes, yet Prime's hv still went through him like a ghost.

Cap's new shield is "stronger than ever", and could very well clear. The only forces that can potentially damage it are HOTM Hulk and Prime's HV-- Hulk due to the sheer physicality he possesses, and Prime's HV because, even when he was in a severely weakened state, his HV still skewered Superman like a hot knife through butter.

Originally posted by h1a8
. That means the hv was over a thousand times more powerful than Superman's durability insane

Originally posted by h1a8
Superboy prime's hv went through Superman's shoulder like he was a ghost. That means the hv was over a thousand times more powerful than Superman's durability. I doubt that the shield is a thousand or more times durable than Superman. Personally I'm not sure if the shield can withstand the core of a star for more than a few moments. We know Superman can, hell Superman can withstand black holes, yet Prime's hv still went through him like a ghost.

The shield has taken hits from Mjolnir and the Hulk without a scratch, that means it's durability is over 999 trillion times more powerful than their attacks. I doubt his HV is 999 trillion times more powerful than The Hulk/Thor.

Most prolly clears it...

Bwhahaha h1a8 and Carter classic.

Clears it

Originally posted by h1a8
Superboy prime's hv went through Superman's shoulder like he was a ghost. That means the hv was over a thousand times more powerful than Superman's durability.

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/861236/castle_confused.gif

He's a RL math/science teacher. Don't ask questions.

Prime heat vision didn't go through Superboy shoulder though.

Originally posted by Galan007
Cap's new shield is "stronger than ever", and could very well clear. The only forces that can potentially damage it are HOTM Hulk and Prime's HV-- Hulk due to the sheer physicality he possesses, and Prime's HV because, even when he was in a severely weakened state, his HV still skewered Superman like a hot knife through butter.

Which is more formidable/devistating, Prime heat vision of his fist?

Originally posted by h1a8
Superboy prime's hv went through Superman's shoulder like he was a ghost. That means the hv was over a thousand times more powerful than Superman's durability.

What kind of made up math is that?!

Hulk would be the best bet for pure force, Primes heat vision for precision but I see Cap's shield clearing this gauntlet. Maybe if you gave "HOTM Hulk" the shield and allowed him to break it by any means necessary it would be possible, I could see him snapping it Serpent style eventually.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superboy prime's hv went through Superman's shoulder like he was a ghost. That means the hv was over a thousand times more powerful than Superman's durability. I doubt that the shield is a thousand or more times durable than Superman. Personally I'm not sure if the shield can withstand the core of a star for more than a few moments. We know Superman can, hell Superman can withstand black holes, yet Prime's hv still went through him like a ghost.

Interesting... Interesting...

Can you pls post the scan you are indicating and the basic math involved in your conclusion? I'm sure we're all eager to find out how you came up with these numbers...

Zod's heat vision went through Superman...

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Zod's heat vision went through Superman...


Zod>Prime. He actually did something Prime never did, and that was break Superman jaw with a single hit.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Zod's heat vision went through Superman... In all fairness, Prime was very, very weak when his HV pierced Superman-- which says a lot, imo.

Either way, I recently saw an AvX cover, on which Cap's shield can be seen soaking a blast from PF Cyclops. If there's any truth to that in the issue itself, then Prime's HV might not be effective. But to be fair(again), Prime's HV has also busted through GL auto-shields, and even Guardian shielding-- not to mention all the others he's killed with it... His HV is potent as shit.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Zod's heat vision went through Superman... Not in the same manner as Prime's. You actually see a struggle of it.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The shield has taken hits from Mjolnir and the Hulk without a scratch, that means it's durability is over 999 trillion times more powerful than their attacks. I doubt his HV is 999 trillion times more powerful than The Hulk/Thor.
Failure to damage in itself doesn't imply the level in which to damage.
For, example I can squeeze and egg with 99% of the force required to bust it yet there won't be a scratch on it. Adding a mere 1% would bust the egg.

Now Prime's hv went through Superman without a struggle (unlike like Zod's hv) in such a way it appeared as Superman was a ghost. That implies how many times it was over Superman's durability.

In other words, failure to damage doesn't imply how much more is needed in order to damage and while damaging something in such a way does determine the level of attack.

Good try though

WTF, Zod heat vision went through Superman just as easily as Prime heat vision did. Have you seen this H1 or are you just guessing.?

Originally posted by carver9
WTF, Zod heat vision went through Superman just as easily as Prime heat vision did. Have you seen this H1 or are you just guessing.?
I saw both a long time ago. Zod's hv had a little struggle to it. It appeared to penetrate a solid object. Prime's on the other hand went through like Superman was a ghost. This is a huge difference. Plus prime was much weaker than his normal self.

Originally posted by h1a8
Not in the same manner as Prime's. You actually see a struggle of it.


Failure to damage in itself doesn't imply the level in which to damage.
For, example I can squeeze and egg with 99% of the force required to bust it yet there won't be a scratch on it. Adding a mere 1% would bust the egg.

Now Prime's hv went through Superman without a struggle (unlike like Zod's hv) in such a way it appeared as Superman was a ghost. That implies how many times it was over Superman's durability.

In other words, failure to damage doesn't imply how much more is needed in order to damage and while damaging something in such a way does determine the level of attack.

Good try though

Good for the egg, but the shield's durability has been proven to be over 999 trillion times greater than Thor/Hulk's damage output.

Can you prove that Superboy prime's hv is that powerful?

I'd give a charged Mjolnir strike by Thor a good shot at breaking the shield, provided Thor put everything he had behind said strike.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Zod's heat vision went through Superman...
Under a red sun.

^ Do you have the scans, and/or an issue number of the Zod HV instance? I remember seeing it a few times, but can't recall where.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Do you have the scans, and/or an issue number of the Zod HV instance? I remember seeing it a few times, but can't recall where.
Superman v2 215. H don't have the scans currently though.

Originally posted by carver9
Zod>Prime. He actually did something Prime never did, and that was break Superman jaw with a single hit.


Different zod who was equal to superman in every way and suckerpunched him at very high speed.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Shield clears. Correct answer. Originally posted by carver9
Zod>Prime. He actually did something Prime never did, and that was break Superman jaw with a single hit.

Different Zod. Originally posted by Galan007
^ Do you have the scans, and/or an issue number of the Zod HV instance? I remember seeing it a few times, but can't recall where. Originally posted by ODG
Prime would only need to be weakened to the point where he was as strong as Phantom Zone Zod:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Even%20More%20Random/Kryptonians05.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Under a red sun.
Where superman gets a massive downgrade in durability opposed to his other powers.

Originally posted by Galan007
In all fairness, Prime was very, very weak when his HV pierced Superman-- which says a lot, imo.

Either way, I recently saw an AvX cover, on which Cap's shield can be seen soaking a blast from PF Cyclops.

Yeah Prime was weak. Makes you think about the level his HV is really on at normal levels.

About AvX, Scott was most likely holding back like he did against Glads. The Phoenix aura didn't flare up + Xavier was standing near Cap.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Good for the egg, but the shield's durability has been proven to be over 999 trillion times greater than Thor/Hulk's damage output.

Can you prove that Superboy prime's hv is that powerful?


999 trillion? Does anyone have a citation on this, or a scan?

Originally posted by Stoic
999 trillion? Does anyone have a citation on this, or a scan? I thought it was common knowledge. Im surprised u didn't know.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Good for the egg, but the shield's durability has been proven to be over 999 trillion times greater than Thor/Hulk's damage output.

Can you prove that Superboy prime's hv is that powerful?

No it hasn't, remember the egg example disproves it. Lack of damage doesn't show how much more you need (unless you describe how it feels).

Yes I have because it is how you damage something that shows the level

Prime's HV at full power (not weakened) goes through Cap's shield.

Originally posted by h1a8
Prime's HV at full power (not weakened) goes through Cap's shield. I disagree and you are wrong.

Originally

posted by JakeTheBank
Shield clears.

I second that!

Originally posted by Raptor22
I thought it was common knowledge. Im surprised u didn't know.

Nah man, I had not heard or read this anywhere. Like ever. i actually giggled when i read that, and thought that Silent was messing with H1.

Originally posted by Harbinger
I'd give a charged Mjolnir strike by Thor a good shot at breaking the shield, provided Thor put everything he had behind said strike.

wut? How could he if the shield is 999 trillion times greater than his damage output? Now I'm really giggling.

Originally posted by Mindset
I disagree and you are wrong.


Since you disagree give your reasoning.
We all know Superman's incredible durability (all the shit he tanked).

Yet if something goes through him like he is a ghost.
How many more times you think the shield is more durable than him (Energy blast damage only) and why?

Originally posted by h1a8
Since you disagree give your reasoning.
We all know Superman's incredible durability (all the shit he tanked).

Yet if something goes through him like he is a ghost.
How many more times you think the shield is more durable than him (Energy blast damage only) and why? Cap's shield durability is thousands of times greater than Supes.

Because it can resist SBP's hv.

Originally posted by Mindset
Cap's shield durability is thousands of times greater than Supes.

Because it can resist SBP's hv.

Good argument. This means that the Serpent would rip Superman in two like the comic that I ripped up after seeing the shield turned to scrap.

Originally posted by Stoic
Good argument. This means that the Serpent would rip Superman in two like the comic that I ripped up after seeing the shield turned to scrap.

Originally posted by Stoic
that I ripped up after seeing the shield turned to scrap.

really?

Originally posted by Damborgson
really?


Yep. It just made no sense to me until I realized that Marvel's aim was to give the shield an upgrade. That comic is long gone, not the first time I did that either.

Originally posted by h1a8
No it hasn't, remember the egg example disproves it. Lack of damage doesn't show how much more you need (unless you describe how it feels).

Yes I have because it is how you damage something that shows the level

Good for the egg, but the shield's durability has been proven to be over 999 trillion times greater than Thor/Hulk's damage output.

Can you prove that Superboy prime's hv is that powerful?

Originally posted by Stoic
Nah man, I had not heard or read this anywhere. Like ever. i actually giggled when i read that, and thought that Silent was messing with H1.



I'm just using his math, it's fun.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Good for the egg, but the shield's durability has been proven to be over 999 trillion times greater than Thor/Hulk's damage output.

Can you prove that Superboy prime's hv is that powerful? This is a repeat post I already addressed. You must debate against my argument or don't respond. But Stop trolling!

Originally posted by h1a8
This is a repeat post I already addressed. You must debate against my argument or don't respond. But Stop trolling!

Going off on a tangent about eggs doesn't prove anything in regards to the shield.

Now, Can you prove that Superboy prime's hv is over 999 trillion times as powerful as Thor/Hulk's damage output?

Shield should clear even if it might be a bit roughed up in some cases. Only thing iffy is HOTM hulk slam.

You only have to look at what has damaged Caps sheild in the past to realise how it does here .

Originally posted by h1a8
This is a repeat post I already addressed. You must debate against my argument or don't respond. But Stop trolling!
Originally posted by Silent Master
Good for the egg, but the shield's durability has been proven to be over 999 trillion times greater than Thor/Hulk's damage output.

Can you prove that Superboy prime's hv is that powerful?

Originally posted by Nihilist
You only have to look at what has damaged Caps sheild in the past to realise how it does here .


How do you think it does?

how many times has the shield even been broeken?
the ones I know of are: KT's amateaur eye beams, Power Gem Thanos, Molecule man, and The Serpent recently.

Beyonder Doom.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman v2 215. H don't have the scans currently though. It happened in #214, actually... Get your facts straight. uhuh


In all seriousness, thanks.

Pre Reboot Superman hitting it - Superman is bounced away, the shield is unblemished.

Thor charging Mjolnir and striking it - see Superman, only Thor might get KOed as a consequence too.

HOTM Hulk slamming it - The shield is shattered.

Superboy Prime's Heat Vision - The shield probably is damaged.

Silver Surfer point blank power cosmic blast - standard blast will do nothing, but his most powerful blast should break it.

Thanos blasting it - see Surfer.

Bonus: Classic Juggernaut rushes the shield. - Juggernaut is stopped, the shield remains unblemished.

Originally posted by janus77
Pre Reboot Superman hitting it - Superman is bounced away, the shield is unblemished.

Thor charging Mjolnir and striking it - see Superman, only Thor might get KOed as a consequence too.

HOTM Hulk slamming it - The shield is shattered.

Superboy Prime's Heat Vision - The shield probably is damaged.

Silver Surfer point blank power cosmic blast - standard blast will do nothing, but his most powerful blast should break it.

Thanos blasting it - see Surfer.

Bonus: Classic Juggernaut rushes the shield. - Juggernaut is stopped, the shield remains unblemished.


I think that you may have opened a new portal to hell.

Every Superman/Surfer, Hulk/anyone thread is a new portal to hell, only most walk through without realising .

Originally posted by Stoic
How do you think it does? Shield clears it.

lol eggs

Originally posted by Silent Master
Going off on a tangent about eggs doesn't prove anything in regards to the shield.

Now, Can you prove that Superboy prime's hv is over 999 trillion times as powerful as Thor/Hulk's damage output?

It's harder to prove something true than false. To prove something false you provide a counterexample. I did. I showed that if an attack can't damage an object then that doesn't mean the object can withstand multiple times more force. Remember, a rule is only true if it is always true. Any counterexample proves the rule false.

But to prove that an attack is multiple times that of the durability of an object is simple. Just look at how the attack damaged the object. For example, it takes astronomically more power to pulverize the moon into dust than to break it into 1000 pieces. It takes astronomically more power to penetrate an object without any visible resistance (like a ghost) than to penetrate it with good resistance.

Now please don't argue just to win the debate. If I'm right then say so or prove how I'm not right. Even you can be bias at times.


Lastly, IMO Superman would have withstood being penetrated completely through by PF Cykes blast. This is because it didn't completely penetrate Thor.
Some where Cykes blast not penetrating the shield as proof Prime's hv won't penetrate. Superman can also withstand being penetrated completely through from Hulk's and Thor strikes. Sure they can damage him but they won't penetrate his being completely through. This shows that the shield is more durable than Superman's body. But it's not much more durable than Superman's body since it didn't withstand attacks greater than the things Superman has withstood. Otherwise we would have a no limits fallacy.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
lol eggs You just mad cause you can't think outside of the box.

The shield isn't an egg, therefore your example doesn't prove anything.

Now, Can you prove that Superboy prime's hv is over 999 trillion times as powerful as Thor/Hulk's damage output?

Originally posted by Silent Master
The shield isn't an egg, therefore your example doesn't prove anything.

Now, Can you prove that Superboy prime's hv is over 999 trillion times as powerful as Thor/Hulk's damage output?

The shield not being an egg is irrelevant to the rule you are imposing (Cap's shield is over 999 trillion times that of Thor/Hulk's output).

Thus you never proved that the shield can withstand 999 trillion times that of Thor's output.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superboy prime's hv went through Superman's shoulder like he was a ghost. That means the hv was over a thousand times more powerful than Superman's durability

Pls provide scan and pls provide proof of the numbers you mentioned.

Originally posted by h1a8
The shield not being an egg is irrelevant to the rule you are imposing (Cap's shield is over 999 trillion times that of Thor/Hulk's output).

Thus you never proved that the shield can withstand 999 trillion times that of Thor's output.


Sure I did, just like you proved that SBP's hv was over a thousand times more powerful than Superman's durability.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Sure I did, just like you proved that SBP's hv was over a thousand times more powerful than Superman's durability.

Your proof is this rule:

If an attack can't damage ANY object then it would take a force over 999 trillion times greater to damage it.

Well an egg is ANY object but fails at your rule. Thus your rule is false.


Now as far as my proof. I always give conservative lower bound estimates. This means the actual amount is much higher.
The level of penetration proves it. For example, a small insect can't penetrate the surface of water because the force of it's weight is less than the strength of the surface tension. But an object 1000 times more massive will.
Note: floating in water =/= not breaking the surface tension

Let's ignore my numbers and say I was wrong. Then it is still clear that penetrating something like a ghost shows many times that of what is being penetrated. I doubt that the shield is many times the durability of Superman, by feats. I'll be back later.

Pls provide scans that prove your point, h1.

H1 doesn't have any scans.

Hulk effortlessly ripped Adamantium and Uru like tissue paper. I see no reason on him "not" being able to rip Cap shield to shreds.

Originally posted by carver9
H1 doesn't have any scans.

Hulk effortlessly ripped Adamantium and Uru like tissue paper. I see no reason on him "not" being able to rip Cap shield to shreds. still trying to pedal them lies eh Carter.

Originally posted by Nihilist
still trying to pedal them lies eh Carter.

I don't care what your thoughts on involving Hulk. Back on topic, Hulk prevails.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't care what your thoughts on involving Hulk. Back on topic, Hulk prevails. no cares what you thoughts are period you lying troll.

Originally posted by carver9
H1 doesn't have any scans.

Hulk effortlessly ripped Adamantium and Uru like tissue paper. I see no reason on him "not" being able to rip Cap shield to shreds. When did Hulk rip up Uru?

Originally posted by Galan007
When did Hulk rip up Uru?


My bad, he broke Uru to get rid of the Serpents influence. He crumble his hammer in his hands with ease.

Originally posted by Nihilist
no cares what you thoughts are period you lying troll.


When you buy that medication to take care of that temper you have, holla at me but until then, Hulk>Thanos.

Originally posted by carver9
My bad, he broke Uru to get rid of the Serpents influence. He crumble his hammer in his hands with ease. Oh, right... Was it stated that the Worthys' hammers were made of Uru? I honestly can't remember.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/9397730/10-12-2011_20.jpg.html

@Galan.

Originally posted by Galan007
Oh, right... Was it stated that the Worthys' hammers were made of Uru? I honestly can't remember.

Yeah, it was stated that the worthys were walking around with weapons like Thor.

Okay, cool.

Originally posted by Stoic
wut? How could he if the shield is 999 trillion times greater than his damage output? Now I'm really giggling. Didn't you know Thor's hammer shot out is 999+2 trillion times greater then the sheild

Originally posted by carver9
When you buy that medication to take care of that temper you have, holla at me but until then, Hulk>Thanos. every poster on here must need meds then! As you are know as the forum idiot that lies all the time furthering his position as the boards laughing stock.

Originally posted by carver9
Yeah, it was stated that the worthys were walking around with weapons like Thor. True but URU strnegths varies depending on who enchanted it

Mjolnir forged and enchanted by Surtur was not a strong as Mjolnir reforged from the Odinpower

Originally posted by Nihilist
every poster on here must need meds then! As you are know as the forum idiot that lies all the time furthering his position as the boards laughing stock. He doesn't lie... he just doesn't read the comics and only goes by the scans on this site so therefore he is telling the truth because he doesn't know better

Originally posted by DarkOdin
True but URU strnegths varies depending on who enchanted it

Mjolnir forged and enchanted by Surtur was not a strong as Mjolnir reforged from the Odinpower

To a point, I agree with this but Serpent was pretty much on Odin level and those were enchanted weapons, enchanted to the point that even Magneto was unable to manipulate them (and Magneto has tossed Mjlonir to the side with ease).

It was stated more than once as being a Thor like weapons and why wouldn't the Serpent give them the same type of enchantment if again, he was as powerful as Odin himself?

Originally posted by Nihilist
every poster on here must need meds then! As you are know as the forum idiot that lies all the time furthering his position as the boards laughing stock.

Let me know when you pop that pill, until then, let me continue to ignore you. Holla.

Originally posted by carver9
To a point, I agree with this but Serpent was pretty much on Odin level and those were enchanted weapons, enchanted to the point that even Magneto was unable to manipulate them (and Magneto has tossed Mjlonir to the side with ease).

It was stated more than once as being a Thor like weapons and why wouldn't the Serpent give them the same type of enchantment if again, he was as powerful as Odin himself? Odin > The Serpent(The Serpent himself stated as much.)

But that's moot anyway, as the Uru impregnated within Cap's shield wasn't enchanted by Odin, that I can recall...

Originally posted by Galan007
Odin > The Serpent(The Serpent himself stated as much.)

But that's moot anyway, as the Uru impregnated within Cap's shield wasn't enchanted by Odin, that I can recall...

But again, them saying that the Worthys were walking around with Thor like weapons, more than once is proof enough imo. Everything doesn't have to be spelled out in order for us to realize what the author was hinting at.

Originally posted by h1a8
Your proof is this rule:

If an attack can't damage ANY object then it would take a force over 999 trillion times greater to damage it.

Well an egg is ANY object but fails at your rule. Thus your rule is false.


Now as far as my proof. I always give conservative lower bound estimates. This means the actual amount is much higher.
The level of penetration proves it. For example, a small insect can't penetrate the surface of water because the force of it's weight is less than the strength of the surface tension. But an object 1000 times more massive will.
Note: floating in water =/= not breaking the surface tension

Let's ignore my numbers and say I was wrong. Then it is still clear that penetrating something like a ghost shows many times that of what is being penetrated. I doubt that the shield is many times the durability of Superman, by feats. I'll be back later.

IOW, you can't prove that Superboy prime's hv is over 999 trillion times as powerful as Thor/Hulk's damage output.

Originally posted by carver9
But again, them saying that the Worthys were walking around with Thor like weapons, more than once is proof enough imo. Everything doesn't have to be spelled out in order for us to realize what the author was hinting at. You aren't understanding me.

I agree that Hulk is capable of breaking Uru that is enchanted by Odin-esque forces. But that's a moot point here because the Uru within Cap's shield is not amped by Odin-esque enchantments. Therefore, the Uru in his shield should be easier to break than a Serpent-enchanted hammer... However, the Uru in Cap's shield is enchanted on some level-- and who knows, perhaps melding Uru with the material of Cap's shield produces a finished product exponentially more durable than each of the separate components (ie. 1+1=10.)

srug

Originally posted by Galan007
You aren't understanding me.

I agree that Hulk is capable of breaking Uru that is enchanted by Odin-esque forces. But that's a moot point here because the Uru within Cap's shield is not amped by Odin-esque enchantments. Therefore, the Uru in his shield should be easier to break than a Serpent-enchanted hammer.

However, the Uru in Cap's shield is enchanted on some level-- and who knows, perhaps melding Uru with the material of Cap's shield produces a finished product exponentially more durable than each of the separate components (ie. 2+2=10.)

srug


Aaaaahhhh, my bad, I did misunderstand you. What about Cap average shield, do you think Hulk could rip it?

Originally posted by carver9
Aaaaahhhh, my bad, I did misunderstand you. What about Cap average shield, do you think Hulk could rip it? Rip it? No. Dent it? Most likely (assuming he was pissed, of course.)

Originally posted by Galan007
Rip it? No. Dent it? Most likely (assuming he was pissed, of course.)

Not saying that I disagree with you, just trying to get an understanding of how durable the shield is. Would you rank Cap Shield>enchanted URU and adamantium durability wise?

Originally posted by carver9
Not saying that I disagree with you, just trying to get an understanding of how durable the shield is. Would you rank Cap Shield>enchanted URU and adamantium durability wise? His new shield? Probably. His old shield definitely wasn't more durable than Odin-enchanted Uru, though(as evident when King Thor dented it with a strike from Mjolnir.) Both shields>>>adamantium, though.

...And this is all assuming standard Hulk(HotM, for instance) is at least equal to Serpent-amped Hulk(Nul.) Because remember, Hulk was still Nul when he broke the hammer.

Originally posted by Galan007
His new shield? Probably. His old shield definitely wasn't more durable than Odin-enchanted Uru, though(as evident when King Thor dented it with a strike from Mjolnir.) Both shields>>>adamantium, though.

...And this is all assuming standard Hulk(HotM, for instance) is equal to Serpent-amped Hulk(Nul.) Because remember, Hulk was still Nul when he broke the hammer.

Gotcha.

I disagree with your second post though. Even though Nul showed up after HOTM, that doesn't mean he was dipping in that pool of power or we would have to say this about every Hulk after this. Then, we also have that showing of Nul facing Red She Hulk. She did pretty good against him.

g007-psyduck You're misunderstanding me (again).

Hulk was still technically empowered by The Serpent when he broke the hammer... He was still Nul. Therefore, HotM Hulk would have to be at least as powerful as Nul in order to break that same enchanted hammer/Uru.

Get it?

Originally posted by Galan007
g007-psyduck You're misunderstanding me (again).

Hulk was still technically empowered by The Serpent when he broke the hammer... He was still Nul. Therefore, HotM Hulk would have to be at least as powerful as Nul in order to break that same enchanted hammer/Uru.

Get it?

Lol...you didn't have to use the duck face on me Galan.

Yeah, I get it.

Originally posted by Galan007
His new shield? Probably. His old shield definitely wasn't more durable than Odin-enchanted Uru, though(as evident when King Thor dented it with a strike from Mjolnir.) Both shields>>>adamantium, though.

...And this is all assuming standard Hulk(HotM, for instance) is at least equal to Serpent-amped Hulk(Nul.) Because remember, Hulk was still Nul when he broke the hammer. Cap's shield is more durable than Mjolnir.

Originally posted by carver9
To a point, I agree with this but Serpent was pretty much on Odin level and those were enchanted weapons, enchanted to the point that even Magneto was unable to manipulate them (and Magneto has tossed Mjlonir to the side with ease).

It was stated more than once as being a Thor like weapons and why wouldn't the Serpent give them the same type of enchantment if again, he was as powerful as Odin himself? Towards the end the serpent was but he made the worthy in order to instill fear to get to the level. So at the time of making the hammers he was weaker the Odinpower but non the less the uru hammers of the worthy were made by a low-mid level skyfather

Originally posted by ODG
Cap's shield is more durable than Mjolnir. His former shield is more durable than Mjolnir? How so?

When KT struck the shield with Mjolnir, the shield gave. Mjolnir didn't.

Originally posted by Galan007
His former shield is more durable than Mjolnir? How so?

When KT struck the shield with Mjolnir, the shield gave. Mjolnir didn't. Savage Hulk's fist didn't give when striking Ultron's adamantium armor either.

Originally posted by ODG
Savage Hulk's fist didn't give when striking Ultron's adamantium armor either.

Hhhhmmm, could have a good point. The only question is...was Ultron body damaged when this happened?

^ Yes, he dented him:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Strength/SavageHulkStrikingPower23SW12.jpg

Originally posted by ODG
^ Yes, he dented him:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Strength/SavageHulkStrikingPower23SW12.jpg

why did he blow up?

^ Because Wasp flew inside the gap opened by the dent and started yanking wires and stuff.

ah. That was primary adamantium Ultron to huh? Hell of a feat for Hulk to damage him like that.

Originally posted by ODG
Savage Hulk's fist didn't give when striking Ultron's adamantium armor either. Okay?

Here's a direct comparison between the shield and Mjolnir:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13029393_1.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13029394_2.jpg
Mjolnir came out clearly superior (ie. the shield was dented to phuck, and Mjolnir was unscathed.)

So ABC logic aside, what durability feats does the shield have that put it above Mjolnir? This is an honest question as I have always thought of Mjolnir as superior-- but with sufficient proof, I have no problem reversing my opinion.

I'm about to enjoy this...One Dumb vs Galan. Love it when these two go at it.

Not going at it at all. As long as he can give me good reasons why the shield's durability>Mjolnir's (and if such reasons exist, he likely knows), then I'll have no problem accepting that line of logic.

It's just an alien concept for me to grasp, because I have never thought of the shield as superior to Mjolnir. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
Okay?

Here's a direct comparison between the shield and Mjolnir:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13029393_1.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13029394_2.jpg
Mjolnir came out clearly superior (ie. the shield was dented to phuck, and Mjolnir was unscathed.)

So ABC logic aside, what durability feats does the shield have that put it above Mjolnir? This is an honest question as I have always thought of Mjolnir as superior-- but with sufficient proof, I have no problem reversing my opinion.




Just my two cents. Could Mjolnir have been augmented by the same force that created it? After all Perrikus cut the hammer in two like butter while Thor was in a far inferior state. Just one variable to consider. Sorry to butt in continue the debate.

Originally posted by Stoic
Just my two cents. Could Mjolnir have been augmented by the same force that created it? After all Perrikus cut the hammer in two like butter while Thor was in a far inferior state. Just one variable to consider. Sorry to butt in continue the debate. Good question. I honestly don't know if variances in Thor's levels of power empower/depower Mjolnir by proxy..?

Originally posted by Galan007
Good question. I honestly don't know if variances in Thor's levels of power empower/depower Mjolnir by proxy..?


Not Thor's power, but the Odin force that he possessed.

Originally posted by Galan007
Not going at it at all. As long as he can give me good reasons why the shield's durability>Mjolnir's (and if such reasons exist, he likely knows), then I'll have no problem accepting that line of logic.

It's just an alien concept for me to grasp, because I have never thought of the shield as superior to Mjolnir. /shrug

Same here...I honestly think they are in the same bracket. One Dumb will find something though that's pretty hard to debate against.

odin's enchantment is partly responsible, even the handle and leather thong are indestructible from them

I thought it was said in the Gaying arc that the Odin Force enhanced Mjolnir

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I thought it was said in the Gaying arc that the Odin Force enhanced Mjolnir

WTF

Originally posted by Galan007
Okay?

Here's a direct comparison between the shield and Mjolnir:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13029393_1.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13029394_2.jpg
Mjolnir came out clearly superior (ie. the shield was dented to phuck, and Mjolnir was unscathed.)

So ABC logic aside, what durability feats does the shield have that put it above Mjolnir? This is an honest question as I have always thought of Mjolnir as superior-- but with sufficient proof, I have no problem reversing my opinion.

Which means that one thing giving way while the other doesn't really doesn't mean much. And I'd think you'd agree with that as I would be surprised you'd conclude Mjolnir/Stormbreaker is more durable than Galactus' armor considering they didn't give way while shattering the armor.

Perrikus cleaved it, Destroyer cleaved it, Destroyer wrecked it another time. Thor's rebuilt Mjolnir with little more than lightning at times (and a Pittsburgh steel forge another time). Molecule Man's musings between Cap's shield and Mjolnir heavily implied it was more durable.

Originally posted by carver9
Same here...I honestly think they are in the same bracket. One Dumb will find something though that's pretty hard to debate against.

Have you considered what I wrote above?

Originally posted by ODG
Perrikus cleaved it, Destroyer cleaved it, Destroyer wrecked it another time. Thor's rebuilt Mjolnir with little more than lightning at times (and a Pittsburgh steel forge another time). Molecule Man's musings between Cap's shield and Mjolnir heavily implied it was more durable. All of the above would damage Cap's shield as well, no?

Mjolnir has outperformed the shiled in a different area though:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/King%20Thor/KillsJake5.jpg

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m488ioB9XB1qzmg7o.png

Mjolnir was intact after and the shield had a chunk missing in it.

/shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
All of the above would damage Cap's shield as well, no? Not at all. Especially seeing how a more powerful King Thor didn't do anything more than dent it in canon 616.

You're not going to reforge Cap's shield with lightning or a Pittsburgh steel forge either. And Molecule Man wouldn't be more flabbergasted by the shield if it were structurally or compositionally inferior.

Originally posted by Galan007
All of the above would damage Cap's shield as well, no?

Well I recently learned something that I considered ludicrous at first, and it literally left me laughing. The shield was said to be 999 trillion times greater than Thor's damage output (that's quite a large number lol). I somehow could see an argument against Perri, or the Destroyer ruining it with the ease that they did when they slagged Mjolnir.

If we take Uru for what it was written to be without an enchantment, it really isn't that durable in it's base state. Then we see Thor with the hammer in hand, while in possession of the very same force that enchanted, and increased that very same Uru into a more durable state. Why couldn't Thor have been amplifying the hammer when he hit the shield?

I wouldn't have a problem believing that Mjolnir is more dangerous in Odin's hands than I would in Thor's hands. Would you?

Originally posted by ODG
Not at all. Especially seeing how a more powerful King Thor didn't do anything more than dent it in canon 616. Mjolnir is a blunt object, though. It's going to dent, not cleave/puncture. Regardless, the only instances I know of in which the shield was damaged/broken by outside forces are--

When the Destroyer blasted it:


When Molecule Man dispersed it:


When Perrikus cleaved it:


When a hammer collision between Thor, Fenris, Ulik, and Hyrm broke it:




Sorry, but I believe all of those forces would phuck up the shield as well (in MM's case, he already did.)


...Unless the shield has tanked some of those forces-- in which case you begin to make more sense.

Originally posted by Stoic
Have you considered what I wrote above?


Yea but I think arguments can be made for and against what you said. That's why I was interested in seeing how One Dumb and Galan was going to come up with something going with or against it (since you made a good point).

Originally posted by Stoic
Well I recently learned something that I considered ludicrous at first, and it literally left me laughing. The shield was said to be 999 trillion times greater than Thor's damage output (that's quite a large number lol). I somehow could see an argument against Perri, or the Destroyer ruining it with the ease that they did when they slagged Mjolnir.

If we take Uru for what it was written to be without an enchantment, it really isn't that durable in it's base state. Then we see Thor with the hammer in hand, while in possession of the very same force that enchanted, and increased that very same Uru into a more durable state. Why couldn't Thor have been amplifying the hammer when he hit the shield?

I wouldn't have a problem believing that Mjolnir is more dangerous in Odin's hands than I would in Thor's hands. Would you? Gotta love h1.

Anyway, it wasn't stated that Thor was amping the hammer when he struck Cap's shield, nor was the illustration indicative of such. Thus, there is no reason to assume said strike was dealt with anything more than a 'standard' Mjolnir.

Originally posted by Galan007
Gotta love h1.

Anyway, it wasn't stated that Thor was amping the hammer when he struck Cap's shield, nor was the illustration indicative of such. Thus, there is no reason to assume said strike was dealt with anything more than a 'standard' Mjolnir.


I made a very clear point, you did not in any way overturn what I said. Uru was made to be stronger by the Odin force, and thus we have Mjolnir, and this is based firmly on it's history. Silent master brought up the figure, and it was confirmed by other posters. I was questioned on how i didn't know that.

Originally posted by Stoic
Wait, did you just call me a sock? I made a very clear point, you did not in any way overturn what I said. Uru was made to be stronger by the Odin force, and thus we have Mjolnir, and this is based firmly on it's history. Wth are you talking about? I thought the '999 trillion x more durable' argument was something h1 mentioned earlier-- hence my statement. Calm down.

The rest of your points have nothing to do with anything I've mentioned.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mjolnir is a blunt object, though. It's going to dent, not cleave/puncture.

Regardless, the only instances I know of in which the shield was damaged/broken by outside forces was when the Destroyer blasted it:


When Molecule Man dispersed it:


When Perrikus cleaved it:


When a hammer collision between Thor, Fenris, Ulik, and Hyrm broke it:




Sorry, but I believe all of those forces would phuck up the shield as well (in MM's case, he already did.) Destroyer wrecked it twiceover. Thor's own energies also completely busted it.

Perrikus' scythe and Destroyer's handbeams aren't slicing/shattering Cap's shield. A more powerful King Thor with the Odinforce didn't do anything more than dent it. I don't see ways around this.

It's taken less to reforge Mjolnir. Even a character whose very powerset revolves around molecules to such a great extent that he became the second most powerful being in the Marvel Universe held the shield above Mjolnir. I see no reason to think otherwise. Originally posted by Galan007
Gotta love h1.

Anyway, it wasn't stated that Thor was amping the hammer when he struck Cap's shield, nor was the illustration indicative of such. Thus, there is no reason to assume said strike was dealt with anything more than a 'standard' Mjolnir. King Thor basically attributed his feat to the Odinpower immediately afterwards. Even ignoring that, King Thor himself was far more powerful than Thor.

I think we can all agree that Thanos destroys it

^ superpoke

Yup. That's how easy it'll be for Thanos.

Glad we're on the same page

Also Iron Fist.

That's a given though. There's a reason he's not in this thread

Originally posted by ODG
Perrikus' scythe and Destroyer's handbeams aren't slicing/shattering Cap's shield. A more powerful King Thor with the Odinforce didn't do anything more than dent it. I don't see ways around this. The more powerful King Thor struck the shield with a blunted object. Put a nice sharp edge on the hammer, and he would have sliced the shit out of the shield. IMO.

Originally posted by ODG
It's taken less to reforge Mjolnir. Even a character whose very powerset revolves around molecules to such a great extent that he became the second most powerful being in the Marvel Universe held the shield above Mjolnir. No. All MM said is that the shield's molecules were the "weirdest" out of everything:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13029804/t2.jpg.html
Weirdness doesn't denote durability.

And remember, that was the same n00b Molecule Man who couldn't even recreate Tony's armor correctly:

Originally posted by Galan007
The more powerful King Thor struck the shield with a blunted object. Put a nice sharp edge on the hammer, and he would have sliced the shit out of the shield. IMO. And Cap's shield is at best an inch wide while Mjolnir is a compact sledge shape. This all means nothing. King Thor is more powerful than Perrikus and Destroyer's hand beams. I don't care to debate otherwise. I'm not going to elevate Perrikus or Destroyer to King Thor's level or beyond because of sharpyness. Originally posted by Galan007
No. All MM said is that the shield's molecules were the "weirdest" out of everything:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13029804/t2.jpg.html
Weirdness doesn't denote durability.

And remember, that was the same n00b Molecule Man who couldn't even recreate Tony's armor correctly:
"Weirdest" in the context of how it was "tough separating them" as he was mocking their supposed indestructibility.

Originally posted by ODG
And Cap's shield is at best an inch wide while Mjolnir is a compact sledge shape. This all means nothing. King Thor is more powerful than Perrikus and Destroyer's hand beams. I don't care to debate otherwise. I'm not going to elevate Perrikus or Destroyer to King Thor's level or beyond because of sharpyness. You said that King Thor only dented the shield, therefore a slash from Perrikus' scythe would be ineffective. I am just saying that the reason KT merely dented the shield is because he struck it with a blunted weapon. Give him a sharpened Mjolnir, and he'd flay the shield just as easily as he dented it... Same coin, Persuader isn't as powerful as KT either, but I bet that axe of his could chop the shield in half with ease... I view Perrikus (and his scythe) in a similar light, personally. /shrug

As far as the Destroyer: it utilized energy to break Mjolnir-- which is vastly different that KT utilizing blunt force against the shield. So that comparison wasn't the best either.

Originally posted by ODG
Weird in the context of how it was "tough separating them" as he was mocking their supposed indestructibility. Meh, Owen commented that Mjolnir was 'tough' to separate due to the energies laced within the Uru. He said nothing about Tony's armor, Surfer's board, or Cap's shield being 'tough' to break down.

Originally posted by Galan007
You said that King Thor only dented the shield, therefore a slash from Perrikus' scythe would be ineffective. I am just saying that the reason KT merely dented the shield is because he struck it with a blunted weapon. Give him a sharpened Mjolnir, and he'd flay the shield just as easily as he dented it... Same coin, Persuader isn't as powerful as KT either, but I bet that axe of his could chop the shield in half with ease... I view Perrikus (and his scythe) in a similar light, personally. /shrug

As far as the Destroyer: it utilized energy to break Mjolnir-- which is vastly different that KT utilizing blunt force against the shield. So that comparison wasn't the best either.

Meh, Owen commented that Mjolnir was 'tough' to separate due to the energies laced within the Uru. He said nothing about Tony's armor, Surfer's board, or Cap's shield being 'tough' to break down. Yes. A far more powerful being with a more powerful weapon damaged the shield far less than a weaker being with a weaker weapon damaged Mjolnir. I see no reason for sharpiness to come into the equation here when we're dealing with powers of a far different magnitude. Persuader =/= Perrikus =/= King Thor.

Just another example of a weaker being wrecking the crap out of Mjolnir as opposed to a superior being merely denting the shield.

There is no other context for the weirdness of those molecules to be had. He literally starts off saying, "I know what you're thinking! 'My invincible fill-in-the-blank -- gone! But no power could affect it! It's made of fill-in-the-blank!" He then dispels the notion of their invincibility because they can be (and were) reducible to mere molecules that follow his every whim. And the weirdest ones were the shield's. They weren't the weirdest between Mjolnir and Surfer's board because they smelled funnier. The import of his comment following the disintegration of each of the objects is obvious.

Weaker forces have wrecked Mjolnir. Weaker forces have restored Mjolnir. Molecule Man held the shield above Mjolnir. Doesn't get much more obvious.

Originally posted by ODG
Yes. A far more powerful being with a more powerful weapon damaged the shield far less than a weaker being with a weaker weapon damaged Mjolnir. I see no reason for sharpiness to come into the equation here when we're dealing with powers of a far different magnitude. Persuader =/= Perrikus =/= King Thor. I think you just refuse to hear the opinions of others. When your mind is made up, it's made up. It's irritating at times, but I can respect that, I suppose. Anyway...

-Perrikus' scythe is a sharp object-- it cut Mjolnir as a sharp weapon would do. Give his scythe a blunted edge, and it wouldn't have had nearly the same effect on Mjolnir.
-Mjolnir is a blunt object-- it dented Cap's shield as a blunt weapon would do. Give Mjolnir a sharpened edge, and it would have cut the shield into paper mache. That's the difference.

You are overlooking the fact that the damage a weapon causes to whatever it strikes is dependent on the TYPE of weapon that's used (ie. pointed, sharpened, blunt, etc.) If Wolverine's claws had blunted tips, he wouldn't be cutting/stabbing the likes of Hulk, Rulk, Thanos, etc.(ALL of whom are VASTLY more powerful than he.) This is an easy concept to grasp-- the easiest, in fact.

Originally posted by ODG
There is no other context for the weirdness of those molecules to be had. He literally starts off saying, "I know what you're thinking! 'My invincible fill-in-the-blank -- gone! But no power could affect it! It's made of fill-in-the-blank!" He then dispels the notion of their invincibility because they can be (and were) reducible to mere molecules that follow his every whim. And the weirdest ones were the shield's. They weren't the weirdest between Mjolnir and Surfer's board because they smelled funnier. The import of his comment following the disintegration of each of the objects is obvious.

Weaker forces have wrecked Mjolnir. Weaker forces have restored Mjolnir. Molecule Man held the shield above Mjolnir. Doesn't get much more obvious. You seem to be ignoring what Owen actually said and replacing it with what you want him to have said. He specifically noted that the reason Mjolnir was difficult to atomize was because of the energies(Odinpower) laced within it. Even though Surfer's board was also (per Owen) comprised of "weird" molecules, he said nothing about it being difficult/tough to atomize. Finally, he said the shield contained the "weirdest" molecules, but weirdness does NOT denote increased durability by proxy. I find that notion kind of funny, actually.

Originally posted by Galan007
I think you just refuse to hear the opinions of others. When your mind is made up, it's made up. It's irritating at times, but I can respect that, I suppose. Anyway...Thinking an object that withstands the power of a more powerful being, wielding a more powerful force and a more powerful weapon to a better degree than another object being wrecked by lesser beings, lesser powers and weapons/attacks qualifies me as non-retarded, not stubborn. Originally posted by Galan007
-Perrikus' scythe is a sharp object-- it cut Mjolnir as a sharp weapon would do. Give his scythe a blunted edge, and it wouldn't have had nearly the same effect on Mjolnir.
-Mjolnir is a blunt object-- it dented Cap's shield as a blunt weapon would do. Give Mjolnir a sharpened edge, and it would have cut the shield into paper mache. That's the difference.

You are overlooking the fact that the damage a weapon causes to whatever it strikes is dependent on the TYPE of weapon that's used (ie. pointed, sharpened, blunt, etc.) If Wolverine's claws had blunted tips, he wouldn't be cutting/stabbing the likes of Hulk, Rulk, Thanos, etc.(ALL of whom are VASTLY more powerful than he.) This is an easy concept to grasp-- the easiest, in fact. I'm not taking your reasoning very seriously since you haven't explained why you've not given Cap's shield analogous credit for being waifer thin as opposed to the foot thick bludgeon that Mjolnir is. Or that we had a street leveler holding it as opposed to a wielder of the flippin Odinforce. Originally posted by Galan007
You seem to be ignoring what Owen actually said and replacing it with what you want him to have said. He specifically noted that the reason Mjolnir was difficult to atomize was because of the energies(Odinpower) laced within it. Even though Surfer's board was also (per Owen) comprised of "weird" molecules, he said nothing about it being difficult/tough to atomize. Finally, he said the shield contained the "weirdest" molecules, but weirdness does NOT denote increased durability by proxy. I find that notion kind of funny, actually. Molecule Man mocks the supposed invincibility of several objects. Says that, in the end, they're just composed of molecules. Says the shield's molecules are the weirdest of them all. I find the notion of the shield's structural/compositional superiority to be so plainly obvious a kindergartener would be able to understand the import of his comments. To each his own.

Originally posted by ODG
Thinking an object that withstands the power of a more powerful being, wielding a more powerful force and a more powerful weapon to a better degree than another object being wrecked by lesser beings, lesser powers and weapons/attacks qualifies me as non-retarded. The TYPE of damage dealt depends on the TYPE of weapon that is used. For instance: the damage Wolverine can deliver with his adamantium claws is vastly different than the damage Hammerhead can deliver with his adamantium dome. Same material, except one is sharp and one is blunt. Easy.

At this point you are just ignoring that, it seems.

Originally posted by ODG
I'm not taking your reasoning very seriously since you haven't explained why you've not given Cap's shield analogous credit for being waifer thin as opposed to the thick bludgeon that Mjolnir is. Or that we had a street leveler holding it as opposed to a wielder of the Odinforce. Cap's shield absorbs energy-- aside from it's raw durability, that's what makes it so special/unique. That is why Cap was able to endure a strike from KT in the first place.

Why am I telling you things you surely know?

Originally posted by ODG
Molecule Man mocks the supposed invincibility of several objects. Says that, in the end, they're just composed of molecules. Says the shield's molecules are the weirdest of them all. I find the notion of the shield's structural/compositional superiority to be so plainly obvious a kindergartener would be able to understand the import of his comments. To each his own. Compositional superiority? He atomized Tony's armor, Mjolnir, Surfer's board, and the shield at the same time. It's not as though the shield outlasted everything else. IF that would have been the case, you'd have a leg to stand on. But... :/

Again, Owen stated that Surfer's board was comprised of "weird" molecules. However, he didn't say the board was "tough" to atomize, like he'd said about Mjolnir just beforehand. So clearly, the 'weirdness' contained within the molecules of an object doesn't denote varying levels of durability by default.

Again: the ONLY item that Owen claimed was difficult to atomize was Mjolnir. Nothing else.

Originally posted by Galan007
The TYPE of damage dealt depends on the TYPE of weapon that is used. For instance: the damage Wolverine can deliver with his adamantium claws is vastly different than the damage Hammerhead can deliver with his adamantium dome. Same material, except one is sharp and one is blunt. Easy.

At this point you are just ignoring that, it seems. Right. Like how the damage being dealt would also depend on the thickness of said object (super thin shield vs super thick bludgeon)? Or the strength of the weapon's wielder (King Thor, when normal Thor already dented adamantium)? Or the near limitless cosmic power empowering said wielder/weapon (the Odinforce)?

When in Rome... Originally posted by Galan007
At this point you are just ignoring that, it seems.

Cap's shield absorbs energy-- aside from it's raw durability, that's what makes it so special/unique. That is why Cap was able to endure a strike from KT in the first place.

Why am I telling you things you surely know?

Compositional superiority? He atomized Tony's armor, Mjolnir, Surfer's board, and the shield at the same time. It's not as though the shield outlasted everything else. IF that would have been the case, you'd have a leg to stand on. But... :/ And while he did it simultaneously, the shield's composition proved strangest of all. But if you really think that the shield's composition has nothing to do with its durability, at the same time Molecule Man is mocking the supposed invincibility of each of those objects, I'd say you're doing it wrong. Originally posted by Galan007
Again, Owen stated that Surfer's board was comprised of "weird" molecules. However, he didn't say the board was "tough" to atomize, like he'd said about Mjolnir just beforehand. So clearly, the 'weirdness' contained within an object doesn't denote varying levels of durability by default.

Again: the ONLY item that Owen claimed was difficult to atomize was Mjolnir. Nothing else. Christ. You can't possibly be twisting that scene as Mjolnir being superior to Cap's shield. facepalm

Originally posted by ODG
Right. Like how the damage being dealt would also depend on the thickness of said object (super thin shield vs super thick bludgeon)? Or the strength of the weapon's wielder (King Thor, when normal Thor already dented adamantium)? Or the near limitless cosmic power empowering said wielder/weapon (the Odinforce)? You're veering away from my point. What you said above is true-- all I'm saying is that KT striking the shield with a blunt object is why it was dented, and not cut/shopped/cleaved/flayed like it would have been if Mjolnir were a sharpened/pointed weapon.

That's why I believe Perrikus cutting it with his scythe (a godly sharpened weapon) is a possibility.

Originally posted by ODG
And while he did it simultaneously, the shield's composition proved strangest of all. But if you really think that the shield's composition has nothing to do with its durability, at the same time Molecule Man is mocking the supposed invincibility of each of those objects, I'd say you're doing it wrong. Christ. You can't possibly be twisting that scene as Mjolnir being superior to Cap's shield. facepalm I'm saying that even though the molecules of Cap's shield were the weirdest, that doesn't automatically make it more durable.

In fact, if you really want to pick apart that scene, then have a gander at this panel in which Owen is atomizing all of the items:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/13030261_t2.jpg
-Cap's shield: broken into a bunch of pieces/vaporizing.
-Tony's armor: literally melting off his body.
-Surfer's board: broken into a bunch of pieces/disintegrating.
-Mjolnir: still intact.

If I were as nitpicky as you, I could argue that Mjolnir is superior because Owen a.) stated it was "tough" to atomize, and b.) the illustration depicts it still intact, while every other item is broken apart.

...But I would never do that.

Originally posted by Galan007
You're veering away from my point. What you said above is true-- all I'm saying is that KT striking the shield with a blunt object is why it was dented, and not cut/shopped/cleaved/flayed like it would have been if Mjolnir were a sharpened/pointed weapon. Mhmm... kinda Originally posted by Galan007
That's why I believe Perrikus cutting it with his scythe (a godly sharpened weapon) is a possibility.

I'm saying that even though the molecules of Cap's shield were the weirdest, that doesn't automatically make it more durable.

In fact, if you really want to pick apart that scene, then have a gander at this panel in which Owen is atomizing all of the items:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/13030261_t2.jpg
-Cap's shield: broken into a bunch of pieces.
-Tony's armor: literally melting off his body.
-Surfer's board: broken into a bunch of pieces.
-Mjolnir: still intact.

If I were as nitpicky as you, I could argue that Mjolnir is superior because Owen a.) stated it was "tough" to atomize, and b.) the illustration depicts it still intact, while every other item is broken apart.

...But I would never do that. I'm saying that it doesn't take much genius to realize that since molecules are the basis of his power, and the basis of his ability to easily dismantle supposedly invicible objects like Mjolnir, the board and the shield, that the shield's molecules being the weirdest of them all is a rather obvious statement of the shield's invincibility relative to the other objects.

Originally posted by ODG
Mhmm... kinda

Originally posted by ODG
I'm saying that it doesn't take much genius to realize that since molecules are the basis of his power, and the basis of his ability to easily dismantle supposedly invicible objects like Mjolnir, the board and the shield, that the shield's molecules being the weirdest of them all is a rather obvious statement of the shield's invincibility relative to the other objects. Again, if we are going to pick things apart on this level, then Mjolnir>shield, because Owen: a.) stated it was "tough" to atomize, and b.) the illustration depicts Mjolnir still intact, while every other item (including the shield) is broken apart.

I would have never noticed the illustration in that panel had you not been so damn nitpicky... So thanks.

Originally posted by Galan007


Again, if we are going to pick things apart on this level, then Mjolnir>shield, because: Owen a.) stated it was "tough" to atomize, and b.) the illustration depicts Mjolnir still intact, while every other item (including the shield) is broken apart.

I would have never noticed the illustration in that panel had you not been so damn nitpicky... So thanks. What you call nitpicky, I believe is plain common sense by reading a statement in its context. Molecule Man's observation when destroying thee supposedly invincible objects wasn't a meaningless one. People do things differently from other people. People also do things differently when it suits them.

None of this much matters when the shield sustains less damage from more powerful entities, forces, and weapons.

You two are obviously gay for each other.

And I want in on it.

Originally posted by ODG
What you call nitpicky, I believe is plain common sense by reading a statement in its context. Molecule Man's observation when destroying thee supposedly invincible objects wasn't a meaningless one. People do things differently from other people. People also do things differently when it suits them.
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/13030261_t2.jpg
-Cap's shield: vaporizing.
-Tony's armor: melting.
-Surfer's board: disintegrating.
-Mjolnir: still intact.

^^That + Owen's statement that Mjolnir was "tough" to atomize = Mjolnir>shield in that particular scene. No ifs, ands or buts. The artistic depiction couldn't be clearer.

Originally posted by ODG
None of this much matters when the shield sustains less damage from more powerful entities, forces, and weapons. In your opinion.

Originally posted by Mindset
You two are obviously gay for each other.

And I want in on it. 2231
ODG--Mindset--Me.

ie. if you want a spot, it's yours.