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Fight takes place at Dooku's retreat on Serenno.

Thoughts, anyone?

Team 2 wins.

Count Dooku is the strongest on the field, I think he tips it.

Don't see why Dooku couldn't solo, to be honest.

Throw in GG, who can hold off Ventress or Maul long enough for the Count to take out the other, and team two wins.

Yeah, I should have left Grievous out.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, I should have left Grievous out.

No you were right the first time. Keep Grievous in. I'm going with team 1. If Ventress uses the force she can probably deal with Grievous pretty quick, and then help Maul double team Dooku.

Grievous holds off either while Dooku quickly take his opponent out with the force. He then helps Grievous destroying Grievous' opponent.

IMO, either are good enough to 8eat Grievous pretty swiftly, while Maul and Ventress can hold off Dooku quite effectively while they do it. I think together, they can take him down.

IDK, this is a good thread imo. It's possi8le to argue either way.

The Count could definitely solo this, and there is no way in hell Ventress will be able to swiftly defeat Grievous.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The Count could definitely solo this, and there is no way in hell Ventress will be able to swiftly defeat Grievous.

5ANhi5X-6N0

>;;;;]

Originally posted by Nephthys
5ANhi5X-6N0

>;;;;]

Low end showing for the General

Nice recovery.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nice recovery.

Also hardly a stomp. Ventress got kicked down, the General lost an arm. More like a tie really.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Also hardly a stomp. Ventress got kicked down, the General lost an arm. More like a tie really.

What? Getting kicked is not the same as losing an arm. It was Ventress that chopped off Grievous's arm btw.

And she didn't even use any Force TK in that fight. We've seen Council members defeat Grievous relatively quickly with the Force, so I'm certain Ventress could do it pretty swiftly.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Grievous holds off either while Dooku quickly take his opponent out with the force. He then helps Grievous destroying Grievous' opponent.

Dooku is not taking out Current Maul with the Force. At least not with any kind of ease anyway.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
What? Getting kicked is not the same as losing an arm. It was Ventress that chopped off Grievous's arm btw.

And she didn't even use any Force TK in that fight. We've seen Council members defeat Grievous relatively quickly with the Force, so I'm certain Ventress could do it pretty swiftly.

It was sarcasm dude.

Dooku's already embarrassed Ventress+Savage. I don't think swapping Savage with Maul is enough to tip the scales.

edit- That video above is heresy.

Hardly, Dooku fled. Plus Ventress and Savage weren't working together for much of the duel.

Dooku was nullifying their attacks with no lightsaber.

I don't see Maul having more coordination with than Savage.

Originally posted by ares834
It was sarcasm dude.

Ah yes just seen that.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._


I don't see Maul having more coordination with than Savage.

Is this sarcasm as well? I can't tell. I'm all off today.

Sure. But the reason he was forced to do that was because Savage disarmed him in the first place. That combined with the fact that he fled suggests he was certainly not embarrassing them.

Dooku fled because the Clone Wars would be a much shorter cartoon series if he'd lopped their god damn heads off during that fight.

Dooku spent the entire fight fending them off with no weapon, embarrassing them when he had one, and flooring them with lightning. From the lightning alone it's obvious he could have ended it with the force whenever he wanted too.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
I don't think swapping Savage with Maul is enough to tip the scales.


Maul >>> Opress in Sabers:

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
LOL I've found the Maul vs Savage fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2s5H4kbmjw

It's at around 6:40.



And from the last episodes showings he's probably close to Dooku in the Force as well.

Yeah, still not seeing where he embarrassed them. Savage was knocking him around the room, disarmed Dooku, and got him into a force choke. Dooku likely could have beat them, but it would have taken a fair bit of effort.

Anytime people who are armed with lightsabers fail to kill someone who doesn't have any weapon in their hand at all, it is an embarrassment for the people with the lightsabers.

Dooku could have murdered them both with the force, or with his blade. There's no doubt about it.

The question is, could Maul change the outcome if he took Savage's place? Considering his poor performance against Obi-Wan recently I heavily doubt it. But I haven't seen any of his other fights in the series thus far.

The official site says Dooku's mastery "barely" gave him an edge over Asajj and Savage.

Thanks for letting us know.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Thanks for letting us know.

That's what I'm here for: correcting your errors one mistake at a time.

Let the light of my genius warm you.

I was being sarcastic. Truthfully, no one cares about your quotes. Not even Jesus.

Jesus cares about me way more than you. Remember, he loves white people best.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Maul >>> Opress in Sabers:



And from the last episodes showings he's probably close to Dooku in the Force as well.

Has that scene occurred yet?

Yes.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Anytime people who are armed with lightsabers fail to kill someone who doesn't have any weapon in their hand at all, it is an embarrassment for the people with the lightsabers.


Yes but the reason he was disarmed in the first place was because of Opress.

And he only kept Opress at bay with Force Lightning. That won't work on Maul.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._

The question is, could Maul change the outcome if he took Savage's place? Considering his poor performance against Obi-Wan recently I heavily doubt it.

Maul did ok. It was Opress who got screwed up. Maul ended the fight by tossing Obi-Wan away.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Has that scene occurred yet?

Yeah in same episode just screened where Obi-Wan fights them.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes but the reason he was disarmed in the first place was because of Opress.

And Anakin was disarmed by Obi-Wan during their duel, and Maul was *****-slapped off a cliff by Qui-Gon in TPM, and Yoda got knocked on his ass by Sideous. Unless you're impyling that Dooku is a superior fighter without his lightsaber than he is with one, I'm not sure what your point is. There is a reason why neither Savage nor Ventress could lay a finger on him when he didn't have his lightsaber.

It won't work because... why? Because Maul tanked the lightning of a random no-name Witch who's strength in the force is completely ambiguous and unquantified?

If Maul had been doing okay, the fight would have never reached the point where Savage ends up losing an arm.

But he didn't win it, otherwise Obi-Wan would have been dead.

Darth Power, no.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
And Anakin was disarmed by Obi-Wan during their duel, and Maul was *****-slapped off a cliff by Qui-Gon in TPM, and Yoda got knocked on his ass by Sideous. Unless you're impyling that Dooku is a superior fighter without his lightsaber than he is with one, I'm not sure what your point is. There is a reason why neither Savage nor Ventress could lay a finger on him when he didn't have his lightsaber.

Anakin also disarmed Obi-Wan. Maul still had his weapon. Sidious also got knocked on his ass by Yoda.

But if Dooku was >>> Savage and Ventress like your claiming he would never have ended up in such an embarassing position of being on his ass without a weapon without at least doing the same back to his 2 opponents.

And the only reason Savage couldn't hit Dooku after he was disarmed was due to Dooku's Force Lightning keeping him at bay. That won't work against Maul.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
It won't work because... why? Because Maul tanked the lightning of a random no-name Witch who's strength in the force is completely ambiguous and unquantified?

When AOTC Obi-Wan can catch Dooku's Lightning with his Lightsaber, you would have to be crazy to think Current Maul whose tossing CW Obi-Wan around with the Force, couldn't do the same.

Maul's not a powered up freak with no training like Opress. He has power, skill and extensive training to back him up.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
If Maul had been doing okay, the fight would have never reached the point where Savage ends up losing an arm.


By this logic Mace's performance against Sidious was poor because his 3 companions died.

Maul's actually already proven in the same episode that he can take Savage out a lot more easily than Obi-Wan did. Opress is almost a non-factor to Maul.


Originally posted by Tzeentch._
But he didn't win it, otherwise Obi-Wan would have been dead.

I never claimed Maul won. Just that his performance against Obi-Wan wasn't poor. If it was then Obi-Wan would have injured him, or at least put him on his ass. And he would have at least come close to defeating Maul earlier in their one on one.

But FYI your definition of Obi-Wan having to die to lose makes Obi-Wan invincible because we know he can't die for the convenience of the plot.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Darth Power, no.


????

And from the last episodes showings he's probably close to Dooku in the Force as well.

WTF, why do you think that? Just because Maul pushed Obi-Wan on the wall? Or maybe because he drop that ship? Yeah, that ship have probably great force defence...

Maul was unable to catch Obi, or Ventress with the force... Also we never seen him using lightning.
Dooku on the other hand was able to destroy many opponents with nice mix of choke and lightning... (Bulq, Skywalker, Ventress and sisters...)
He was also albe to suckesfully use move objects and choke on Kenobi (while people like Ventress or Savage just catch their enemys, and don't know what to do next....).
And finally, Dooku was able to takes Asajj lightsabers from her with the force.

Maul is really close, for sure!

But if Dooku was >>> Savage and Ventress like your claiming he would never have ended up in such an embarassing position of being on his ass without a weapon without at least doing the same back to his 2 opponents.

Technically, he is far above them. He lost his saber only becasue he wasn't able to suckesfully block Savage's brutal strikes.

I never claimed Maul won. Just that his performance against Obi-Wan wasn't poor.

I agree here, Maul fights very well in this two duels. Savage's lost arm was his own failure.

Originally posted by Zett


WTF, why do you think that? Just because Maul pushed Obi-Wan on the wall? Or maybe because he drop that ship? Yeah, that ship have probably great force defence...

Maul was unable to catch Obi, or Ventress with the force... Also we never seen him using lightning.
Dooku on the other hand was able to destroy many opponents with nice mix of choke and lightning... (Bulq, Skywalker, Ventress and sisters...)
He was also albe to suckesfully use move objects and choke on Kenobi (while people like Ventress or Savage just catch their enemys, and don't know what to do next....).
And finally, Dooku was able to takes Asajj lightsabers from her with the force.

Maul is really close, for sure!

I never claimed he's Dooku's equal in the force now. But I think the days of saying Dooku would just rag doll Maul with the Force are gone.

Here look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_e7I4g_Rug

At 2:55 he levitates Obi-Wan. It's very similar to the move Dooku did to him in ROTS.

And the Force push at 3:15 is pretty bas ass.

You can talk about the Jedi ship having no force defense, but end of the day it's a feat beyond anything we've seen from the likes of Obi-Wan or Ventress. And the situation he did it in was quite impressive.
He was injured, deflecting attacks, and pulled the ship down pretty quick and from a distance, and with just one hand.


Originally posted by Zett
Technically, he is far above them. He lost his saber only becasue he wasn't able to suckesfully block Savage's brutal strikes.

What I'm saying is if Opress and Ventress were so utterly outmatched, then that shouldn't have happened.


Originally posted by Zett

I agree here, Maul fights very well in this two duels. Savage's lost arm was his own failure.

But I think the days of saying Dooku would just rag doll Maul with the Force are gone.

I never think, that Dooku can destroy Maul by the force without any problem. Maul was a beast, with incredible stamina. The way, that Dooku defeat Kenobi on Invisible Hand, shouldn't work against Maul in my opinion.
Anyway, despite this, Dooku is still superior with the force to guys like Maul, or even Windu. I mean, his powers may* means nothing against them, but still he can successfully use it against different opponents, like Obi-Wan, Asajj or Sora Bulq (Windu fights both - Sora and Asajj, and wasn't able to find clear advantage with the force).

You're right - Maul's catch Kenobi was quite similiar as Dooku. But he was in much better situation then Dooku - he has Savage's help, while Dooku was alone against two opponents. And finally - Dooku's action leads him to victory over Obi-Wan. Maul's not quit well.

*That "may"... i mean, its still gives Dooku a little advantage over... Windu or Maul for example. But its still not enough to defeat them only by the force.

^ Yeah I agree.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Anakin also disarmed Obi-Wan. Maul still had his weapon. Sidious also got knocked on his ass by Yoda. And neither Savage nor Ventress could land a single hit on Dooku once he'd lost his lightsaber.

So, in your mind, Dooku is a better fighter without his lightsaber than he is with one?

You think Maul is Dooku's equal in the force? LOL.

No, Dooku would easily ragdoll Maul no problem.




No one is going to ever argue that Mace is Sideous' superior in sabers. Literally the only reason he managed to defeat Sideous was due to Vapaad.

This would only be true if we saw Maul dominating Obi-Wan. We never saw him do so at any point within the fight.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
And neither Savage nor Ventress could land a single hit on Dooku once he'd lost his lightsaber. So, in your mind, Dooku is a better fighter without his lightsaber than he is with one?

No because he didn't start using Force Lightning to control Opress until he lost his Lightsaber (which was due to Opress btw).



Originally posted by Tzeentch._
You think Maul is Dooku's equal in the force? LOL.

No, Dooku would easily ragdoll Maul no problem.

Dude that's crazy. No I've already told Zett here on this very thread that I'm Not saying Maul is Dooku's equal in the Force.

But the days of saying he would ragdoll him with the Force are clearly gone.




Originally posted by Tzeentch._
No one is going to ever argue that Mace is Sideous' superior in sabers. Literally the only reason he managed to defeat Sideous was due to Vapaad.

But even with Vapaad, he couldn't stop Sidious killing Fisto while they were both dueling him.

There's also the fact that Skywalker couldn't stop Dooku force choking Obi-Wan, and yet he defeated Dooku by himself.

Or the fact that Anakin couldn't stop Ventress flooring and disarming Obi-Wan. Does that make Ventress superior to Anakin? Nah.

But hey I actually agree with you that Kenobi is > Maul in Sabers. I just think your exaggerating the difference between them.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
This would only be true if we saw Maul dominating Obi-Wan. We never saw him do so at any point within the fight.

Have you seen the fight?? Maul dominates Obi-Wan twice with the Force. The second time is the end of the fight. Obi-Wan's lying under rubble trying to stay conscious not holding on to his weapons, while Maul is just fine.

I'm pretty sure Obi-Wan has evaded blows from Ventress unarmed before (TCW's movie, perhaps?), even though she's definitely a challenge for him in a duel.

Dooku would not have a problem, especially with Grievous, his trainee, with him

Asajj would own Grievous just like she did on Dathomir, and Maul would assault Dooku with barbaric assaults and dun moch, and may as well use his prosthetic legs, but not too frequently, for Dooku is a fast and tricky fencer, and spams lighting like Palpatine. But he managed to dodge allof Obi-Wan's dual blows in Season 5 episode 1. I think Maul could hold Grievous in air too while Asajj finishes him off. I also think that Maul could work with Ventress more effectively, as their tactics were similar and knowable, as they were both assassins. Asajj wasted Dooku's energy on Serenno with the help of two Nightsisters, but Maul is something else. I say team one wins.

Dooku can solo this fairly easily if it's the Serano retreat. He can toss Ventress out the window and proceed to kill Maul before Ventress can recover.

I doubt Ventress would be tossed away just like that.

Yeah, he's never treated her that casually outside of Dark Rendezvous.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, he's never treated her that casually outside of Dark Rendezvous.

He was able to toss her and 2 of her sisters and electrocute them while blind and poisoned. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
He was able to toss her and 2 of her sisters and electrocute them while blind and poisoned. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to.

I think he got her by surprise because she showed later she could catch his FL with her Saber.

Really, Dooku should be able to ragdoll people of Asajj's caliber based on the ROTS text. But in practice, such defeats seem to hinge on the element of surprise and lapses in an adversary's concentration.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
He was able to toss her and 2 of her sisters and electrocute them while blind and poisoned. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to.

After an extensive fight.

He can definitely Force push her around. That's for sure. But a finishing blow won't come any second he wants especially not while fighting off a second opponent.

And let's not forget Dooku and Ventress had that one on one after the Opress/Dooku/Ventress three way. And it's not like it was an instant win for Dooku. He did have to fight her first.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
He was able to toss her and 2 of her sisters and electrocute them while blind and poisoned. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to.
And in fight together with Opress she blocked his lightning, while in awkward position on her ass.