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From a far somehow Thanos has gained control of 4 super beings .. And has send them to attack earth, ordering them to cuase mass distruction..

Under Thanos control are:
Gladiator
Super-Skrull
Ronan The Accusar
Silver Surfer


Is there any superheroes that reside on Marvel earth full-time that can beat or even make this team retreat back to space?

Daniel Rand.

Yes.

They are known as the Phoenix 5.

Thor has beaten all of those guys before one on one.

With the right back up, Thanos' flunkies get their asses kicked.

I agree with Jake except on one thing...Gladiator and Thor never fought.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with Jake except on one thing...Gladiator and Thor never fought.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with Jake except on one thing...Gladiator and Thor never fought.

Masterson Thor fought and nearly killed Gladiator.

Thor fought and beat the shit out of a prepped and bloodlusted Gladiator from the future.

More than enough evidence to suggest that Thor would beat the shit out of normal Gladiator.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Masterson Thor fought and nearly killed Gladiator.

Thor fought and beat the shit out of a prepped and bloodlusted Gladiator from the future.

More than enough evidence to suggest that Thor would beat the shit out of normal Gladiator.

The evidence is compelling.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Masterson Thor fought and nearly killed Gladiator.

Thor fought and beat the shit out of a prepped and bloodlusted Gladiator from the future.

More than enough evidence to suggest that Thor would beat the shit out of normal Gladiator. The gauntlet has been thrown. Can you Dig it?!

i think plenty of heroes can. franklin richard can probably do it alone.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Masterson Thor fought and nearly killed Gladiator.

Thor fought and beat the shit out of a prepped and bloodlusted Gladiator from the future.

More than enough evidence to suggest that Thor would beat the shit out of normal Gladiator.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5325/gladiatorx.jpg

hee hee

Who else on Marvel Earth would be able to help Thor with theses four ?

Franklin Richards on his lonesome.

Scarlet Witch.

The Hulk.

Currently, Cyclops or Emma Frost.

Puff the Magic Dragon.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Masterson Thor fought and nearly killed Gladiator.

Thor fought and beat the shit out of a prepped and bloodlusted Gladiator from the future.

More than enough evidence to suggest that Thor would beat the shit out of normal Gladiator.

Masterson got CRUSHED by Gladiator and if you want to use future versions of Gladiator then that even boost Gladiator further up the charts than Thor since an amped Thor got stalemated by a future Gladiator.

Originally posted by carver9
Masterson got CRUSHED by Thor and if you want to use future versions of Gladiator then that even boost Gladiator further up the charts than Thor since an amped Thor got stalemated by a future Gladiator.

What?

Gladiator destroyed Masterson. Masterson had to sneak attack Glads to pull an advantage and he didn't even use his own power to pull this advantage.

Legion, Franklin, Elixer, any phoenix member, high end sentry, ultron, doom, and Thor could solo

Most teams could win as well

Originally posted by carver9
Gladiator destroyed Masterson. Masterson had to sneak attack Glads to pull an advantage and he didn't even use his own power to pull this advantage.

1. No he didn't.

2. When did Masterson fight Thor?

Originally posted by carver9
Masterson got CRUSHED by Gladiator and if you want to use future versions of Gladiator then that even boost Gladiator further up the charts than Thor since an amped Thor got stalemated by a future Gladiator.

He was losing until he let loose and had to have the Avengers stop him from killing him.

What are you on? Thor, unamped, beat a future Gladiator who:

-Knew his mortal identity as Jake Olsen
-Took Olsen's ex-girlfriend's daughter, Mandy, hostage
-Took advantage of a now defunct 60 second enchantment
-Was trying to kill Thor the entire battle

That is damning evidence from Gladiator and anything to the contrary is clear trolling. Surprised no one's reported it yet, tbh, considering how often you try to dismiss that feat.

Jake, you are either blind or in denial. Masterson didn't have an advantage until he back stabbed Gladiator with living lightning. I'm not reading the rest of your post because its pointless. Him pounding on a dazed, nearly knocked out Gladiator means crap when he had to sneak attack him to pull that advantage. Now stop talking to me.

Originally posted by carver9
Jake, you are either blind or in denial. Masterson didn't have an advantage until he back stabbed Gladiator with living lightning. I'm not reading the rest of your post because its pointless. Him pounding on a dazed, nearly knocked out Gladiator means crap when he had to sneak attack him to pull that advantage. Now stop talking to me.

Concession accepted.

Jackethebank wins.

Flawless Victory.

What's wrong with using lightning when its Thor? Its not like Tony Stark suddenly pulling lightning from his lightning satellite, its Thor. Who's the god of it.

I would like to see a scan of this, or even an issue number then I can go get it myself. Not sure how hitting him from behind makes it not a victory.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What's wrong with using lightning when its Thor? Its not like Tony Stark suddenly pulling lightning from his lightning satellite, its Thor. Who's the god of it.

I would like to see a scan of this, or even an issue number then I can go get it myself. Not sure how hitting him from behind makes it not a victory.....

It wasn't even Mastersons lightning, it was "living lightning" who by some miracle was flying around during the time Thor and Glads fought. Masterson was on the ground messed up and stated that he could hardly move. He seen living lightning flying around and controlled him to back stab Gladiator (when his other attacks didn't work). This stunned Gladiator to the point that his body went limp and he fell to the ground. Masterson took advantage of a nearly koed Gladiator and pounded on him. Before any of this even happened...Gladiator was tooling Masterson and easily at that.

OOOHHHH you mean Living Lightning the CHARACTER...I was wondering about that.

Fair enough, then.

Do you think its out of Thor's ability (not Masterson but Thor Thor) to replicate that?

Originally posted by carver9
It wasn't even Mastersons lightning, it wad "living lightning" who by some chance was flying around during the time Thor and Glads fought. Masterson was on the ground messed up and stated that he could hardly move. He seen living lightning flying around and controlled him to back stab Gladiator (when his other attacks didn't work). This stunned Gladiator to the point that his body went limp and he fell to the ground. Masterson took advantage of a nearly koed Gladiator and pounded on him. Before any of this even happened...Gladiator was tooling Masterson and easily at that.

If a rookie in the form of Masterson Thor was able to match Gladiator's strength and react to his speed and forcibly summon Living Lightning to strike Gladiator - I'd like for you to prove that his body is somehow more powerful than the lightning Thor can produce on his own - and then proceed to beat the shit out of Gladiator...

...how do you think the much more experienced and overall more powerful version of the real Thor would fare worse? Especially when he already beat up a Gladiator who had almost every advantage possible going into the fight?

It literally makes no sense. And it is blatant trolling on your part.

@Darksaint...

Here is the scene. Please look at Gladiator standing above Masterson laughing. During this fight, Gladiator made Masterson body go limp twice.

http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=36522402ss6.jpg

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/367/50212917oa1.jpg/

@Jake...

Masterson already tried to blast Gladiator during that fight and it did nothing but bounce off of Glads chest. A sneak attack was his best and only choice.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/503/40072776mz5.jpg/

Originally posted by carver9
@Jake...

Masterson already tried to blast Gladiator during that fight and it did nothing but bounce off of Glads chest. A sneak attack was his best and only choice.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/503/40072776mz5.jpg/

Masterson's energy projection < Real Thor's. There's also the fact that Masterson's inexperience and struggles with his own confidence was a huge role as to why his power level seemed to dive and skyrocket at a moment's notice.

Funny how the real Thor's energy projection sent Future Gladiator for a loop and has a storied history of messing up people far more formidable than Gladiator.

So, again, if Masterson Thor, a rookie who's considerably less skilled and powerful than the real deal, can manage to come back from defeat and beat Gladiator - funny how that's a "sneak" attack, when Gladiator is standing tall over him with a shit eating smirk - why can't the real Thor fare much, much better?

Especially when he already beat up a Gladiator who confirmed Thor was too strong for him?

Wow, having not read Masterson Thor, its weird seeing a Thor like character joking around like that....and being so nooby (Gladiator: 'you are hesitant, clumsy and inept!')

Yeah, Gladiator was pretty much dominating the fight throughout - he's putting the hurt onto Masterson, and it was pretty much a last ditch attack, and lucky that Living Lightning happened to be flying over head. Also lucky that Gladiator is just standing over him, smirking.

What were his power levels compared to Thor's? Also, this Living Lightning guy - is his power output comparable to Thor's? Because the way I see it, if its the only thing that made the difference between defeat and victory, then we need to examine if Thor is able to output a similar amount of lightning as that guy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wow, having not read Masterson Thor, its weird seeing a Thor like character joking around like that....and being so nooby (Gladiator: 'you are hesitant, clumsy and inept!')

Yeah, Gladiator was pretty much dominating the fight throughout - he's putting the hurt onto Masterson, and it was pretty much a last ditch attack, and lucky that Living Lightning happened to be flying over head. Also lucky that Gladiator is just standing over him, smirking.

What were his power levels compared to Thor's? Also, this Living Lightning guy - is his power output comparable to Thor's? Because the way I see it, if its the only thing that made the difference between defeat and victory, then we need to examine if Thor is able to output a similar amount of lightning as that guy.

Pretty much. Here is another scene where Gladiator could have taken advantage of Masterson.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/224/42660845wb4.jpg/

Masterson even admits he didnt get an advantage until living lightning showed up. If Glads would have pressed his attack, Masterson never would have had the chance to do anything.

@Jake...

Again, Thor fought a future Gladiator and if we are using future Gladiators, Gladiator from the future stalemated an amped Thor.

Like I will always say, I don't have a problem giving Thor a majority against Gladiator but you giving him a majority in a "blindly" fashion isn't something I'm not going to just ignore. Masterson got his a** whipped, plain and simple. If living lightning wasn't around to save him, Masterson would have died. Hell, if Gladiator was able to see the attack coming, Masterson would have died.

Your point is MOOT Jake and again, if you want to use future versions, that would make Gladiator>>>Thor.

Is Gladiator referring to Masterson as the Kree dupe? Because he also mentions how he's much to dangerous and powerful to allow to exist.

So, all in all, this Masterson Thor seems a bit shit, to be honest.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What were his power levels compared to Thor's? Also, this Living Lightning guy - is his power output comparable to Thor's? Because the way I see it, if its the only thing that made the difference between defeat and victory, then we need to examine if Thor is able to output a similar amount of lightning as that guy.

Generally, Masterson, while he held the power of Thor, was inexperienced in unleashing it. This was later explained during the Blood and Thunder fiasco as the Odin Force contributing to Thor's madness by giving a portion of Thor's power to worthy beings such as Masterson and Bill. All in all, Eric had the potential, but rarely used it due to his own personal doubts and whatnot.

Living Lightning, in no way, shape, or form, rivals Thor's moderate and upper end power displays, let alone his best.

There's nothing at all to suggest that normal Thor couldn't rock Gladiator with an attack of that magnitude, if not greater, under his own power. Even less to suggest that Gladiator could ever no sell an energy blast from the real Thor.

It just seems silly that a being as durable as Gladiator is stunned to near unconsciousness from a single bolt of lightning (Living Lightning, in this case). The guy is basically a Marvel Superman, and he was nearly KOed by something that normal people in real life have survived from.

As for Masteron Thor and real Thor, their power levels should basically be the exact same (The Power Of Thor). Yes the real Thor would be more experienced, more skilled, the better fighter with the more determined will, but power-wise, they should be pretty much exact equals.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Is Gladiator referring to Masterson as the Kree dupe? Because he also mentions how he's much to dangerous and powerful to allow to exist.

So, all in all, this Masterson Thor seems a bit shit, to be honest.

Masterson Thor had his share of low end feats, true. Which makes sense as he's this mortal guy who has no real experience to speak of and he's filling in for Thor.

He then has moments where he's referred to as the biggest gun in the Infinity Gauntlet saga and fighting Thanos straight up.

OK, then if Thor > Living Lightning, and if Living Lightning was what made the difference between nooby Thor and Gladiator....seems kinda clear cut to me, I don't know.

@Dark. Yeah the story was part of Operation Galactic Storm. Before the Thor vs Gladiator scene, Gladiator worked Wonder Man pretty easily, and in my opinion based on that battle Masterson got lucky, but like Jake pointed out, the original Thor is more experienced, and more powerful. All the same, Gladiator should have defeated Masterson, and if he didn't have the luxury of team mates, he would have lost.

Originally posted by carver9
@Jake...

Again, Thor fought a future Gladiator and if we are using future Gladiators, Gladiator from the future stalemated an amped Thor.

Like I will always say, I don't have a problem giving Thor a majority against Gladiator but you giving him a majority in a "blindly" fashion isn't something I'm not going to just ignore. Masterson got his a** whipped, plain and simple. If living lightning wasn't around to save him, Masterson would have died. Hell, if Gladiator was able to see the attack coming, Masterson would have died.

Your point is MOOT Jake and again, if you want to use future versions, that would make Gladiator>>>Thor.

How I am giving him the majority in a "blindly" fashion?

Furthermore, how do you get future Gladiator >>> Thor? Especially when Gladiator admits, clearly and irrevocably, that Thor is too strong for him?

Funny thing is I'm using on panel evidence and you're just mad that a rookie with hardly any experience and understanding of his power got lucky and humiliated Gladiator.

If Masterson Thor had a rematch with Gladiator, considering by the end of his run as Thor, he'd grown in experience and power, it wouldn't bode well for Gladiator. Real Thor would beat the crap out of him.

Let's play your game Jake. Reed amped the fantastic four and Thor speeds to hyper speed levels so that they can work, talk, and build at super speed. With such a huge amp, guess what, a future Gladiator still match Thor. Thor with an AMP got stalemated by Gladiator.



http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/2393/53038816ne8.th.jpghttp://img361.imageshack.us/img361/6708/63428720os6.th.jpghttp://img123.imageshack.us/img123/5328/34683579hw1.th.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6710/15334634yl2.th.jpghttp://img117.imageshack.us/img117/8114/47845965hs5.th.jpghttp://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7961/66586710iy8.th.jpg

Using future versions of Gladiator and Thor fights, its 2 to 1 in Gladiator favor since he did ko Thor during the fight Jake keeps referencing. Lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
OK, then if Thor > Living Lightning, and if Living Lightning was what made the difference between nooby Thor and Gladiator....seems kinda clear cut to me, I don't know.


You also have to think about the fact that it was a sneak attack. It probably wouldn't have worked if Gladiator was ready for it.

Originally posted by DTM
It just seems silly that a being as durable as Gladiator is stunned to near unconsciousness from a single bolt of lightning (Living Lightning, in this case). The guy is basically a Marvel Superman, and he was nearly KOed by something that normal people in real life have survived from.

As for Masteron Thor and real Thor, their power levels should basically be the exact same (The Power Of Thor). Yes the real Thor would be more experienced, more skilled, the better fighter with the more determined will, but power-wise, they should be pretty much exact equals.

Their power levels aren't the same, though.

Masterson gained a portion of Thor's power, not the totality of it, which was why Thor winds up going crazy in Blood and Thunder. All the various identities and being bound to different mortals and his own godly essence being used to empower people like Eric and Bill made him snap.

Wielding the "Power of Thor" doesn't mean you get access to all of it.

Moot point anyway as per feats, Blake/Olsen and hostless Thor >>> Masterson in terms of power.

Originally posted by carver9
Let's play your game Jake. Reed amped the fantastic four and Thor speeds to hyper speed levels so that they can work, talk, and build at super speed. With such a huge amp, guess what, a future Gladiator still match Thor. Thor with an AMP got stalemated by Gladiator.



http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/2393/53038816ne8.th.jpghttp://img361.imageshack.us/img361/6708/63428720os6.th.jpghttp://img123.imageshack.us/img123/5328/34683579hw1.th.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6710/15334634yl2.th.jpghttp://img117.imageshack.us/img117/8114/47845965hs5.th.jpghttp://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7961/66586710iy8.th.jpg

Using future versions of Gladiator and Thor fights, its 2 to 1 in Gladiator favor since he did ko Thor during the fight Jake keeps referencing. Lol.

I forgot to add...this Gladiator was exhausted when he fought Thor.

I never knew that, I always thought Masterson was basically a mortal with the power of Thor, least Im pretty sure thats how they treated it during the time Masterson was Thor anyway.

Originally posted by carver9
Let's play your game Jake. Reed amped the fantastic four and Thor speeds to hyper speed levels so that they can work, talk, and build at super speed. With such a huge amp, guess what, a future Gladiator still match Thor. Thor with an AMP got stalemated by Gladiator.



http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/2393/53038816ne8.th.jpghttp://img361.imageshack.us/img361/6708/63428720os6.th.jpghttp://img123.imageshack.us/img123/5328/34683579hw1.th.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6710/15334634yl2.th.jpghttp://img117.imageshack.us/img117/8114/47845965hs5.th.jpghttp://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7961/66586710iy8.th.jpg

Using future versions of Gladiator and Thor fights, its 2 to 1 in Gladiator favor since he did ko Thor during the fight Jake keeps referencing. Lol.

Funny, because that "KO" you're referring to is missing the context that future Gladiator had prep time, took a hostage, starting off by attacking Jake Olsen - the mortal form of Thor at the time - and was bloodlusted the whole time. He also took advantage of Thor's weakness regarding being depowered.

In the rematch, Thor promptly stops holding back - he states this - and then beats the shit out of Gladiator. Gladiator then states "He's too strong!".

So, Gladiator, with the aid of various plot devices in the very sense of the word, managed to KO Thor. Great. Without them, he'd be phucked.

Originally posted by DTM
It just seems silly that a being as durable as Gladiator is stunned to near unconsciousness from a single bolt of lightning (Living Lightning, in this case). The guy is basically a Marvel Superman, and he was nearly KOed by something that normal people in real life have survived from.

As for Masteron Thor and real Thor, their power levels should basically be the exact same (The Power Of Thor). Yes the real Thor would be more experienced, more skilled, the better fighter with the more determined will, but power-wise, they should be pretty much exact equals.

I agree...it was a sneak attack though. Also, Masterson had the full scope of Thor power, he just didn't have as much experience.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree...it was a sneak attack though. Also, Masterson had the full scope of Thor power, he just didn't have as much experience.

No, he didn't have the full scope of Thor's power. This was stated and shown in Blood and Thunder. Stop lying. Even if he did, that lack of experience prevented him from being able to properly utilize it.

Which means shit when compared to the real Thor.

Originally posted by DTM
I never knew that, I always thought Masterson was basically a mortal with the power of Thor, least Im pretty sure thats how they treated it during the time Masterson was Thor anyway.

He was...don't know where Jake got that he wasn't. He even brags on multiple of occasions as having Thor powers.

Originally posted by carver9
He was...don't know where Jake got that he wasn't. He even brags on multiple of occasions as having Thor powers.

Having the power of Thor =/= having complete access and control over the power of Thor.

Both Captain Marvel and Captain Marvel, Jr. have the Power of Shazam (ie same power source). Billy has more of that power than Freddy does, though.

Personally I think B&T retconned Mastersons time as Thor, as I collected Thor during that time, and there was no mention of him having on a portion of Thors might, especially with how they treated Masterson Thor during the IG.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank Both Captain Marvel and Captain Marvel, Jr. have the Power of Shazam (ie same power source). Billy has more of that power than Freddy does, though.

Again, are you sure? Ive always been lead to believe that the Power Of Shazam is split evenly among those that are currently using it, but CM is stronger than CM3 or MM. Mentally and emotionally different all, sure, but physically I was sure they were all the same.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Having the power of Thor =/= having complete access and control over the power of Thor.

Both Captain Marvel and Captain Marvel, Jr. have the Power of Shazam (ie same power source). Billy has more of that power than Freddy does, though.

The difference is, Masterson WAS Thor. Thor powers was passed to him. In a fight between the two, I would give Thor the majority but I think it would be a hellava fight, especially looking at Masterson fts.

Originally posted by DTM
Personally I think B&T retconned Mastersons time as Thor, as I collected Thor during that time, and there was no mention of him having on a portion of Thors might, especially with how they treated Masterson Thor during the IG.

It didn't retcon it. It still happened and is a part of Thor's history - he mentions how Eric filled in for him as Thor. But Blood and Thunder does explain how Odin's machinations and the other beings who have been given the power of Thor robbed Thor of his identity and made him less "whole".

It's also clear that by feats there is no compare to Masterson and the genuine article, to which Eric states himself on numerous occasions.

Originally posted by DTM
Again, are you sure? Ive always been lead to believe that the Power Of Shazam is split evenly among those that are currently using it, but CM is stronger than CM3 or MM. Mentally and emotionally different all, sure, but physically I was sure they were all the same.

Billy is the primary host of the Power of Shazam and actually gave his power to Freddy rather than Freddy getting it directly from the Wizard himself, unlike Billy.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It didn't retcon it. It still happened and is a part of Thor's history - he mentions how Eric filled in for him as Thor. But Blood and Thunder does explain how Odin's machinations and the other beings who have been given the power of Thor robbed Thor of his identity and made him less "whole".

It's also clear that by feats there is no compare to Masterson and the genuine article, to which Eric states himself on numerous occasions.

Well, a retcon in general does happen and is a party of history of that comic, doesnt mean its not a retcon.

Im just saying when Masterson was Thor, there was no mention of him having only a portion of Thors power, nor was it displayed as such in the comics, then years later in B&T its mentioned this may be the case, so a future change of something that happened in the past is a retcon, BUT we have to keep in mind that events that happend before the retcon should be treated as they were originally intended.

Originally posted by carver9
The difference is, Masterson WAS Thor. Thor powers was passed to him. In a fight between the two, I would give Thor the majority but I think it would be a hellava fight, especially looking at Masterson fts.

No, he wasn't. The simple fact that Thor was still around and living in Asgard is proof that while Masterson took on the identity and power of Thor he still wasn't Thor. This was stated numerous times.

Trying to not so subtly hype up Masterson after you dogged on him as a means to indirectly make Gladiator look superior doesn't work.

Originally posted by DTM
Well, a retcon in general does happen and is a party of history of that comic, doesnt mean its not a retcon.

Im just saying when Masterson was Thor, there was no mention of him having only a portion of Thors power, nor was it displayed as such in the comics, then years later in B&T its mentioned this may be the case, so a future change of something that happened in the past is a retcon, BUT we have to keep in mind that events that happend before the retcon should be treated as they were originally intended.

Even if you believe Masterson held the full power of Thor - which doesn't make sense considering the real Thor was very much alive and existing in Asgard - it's clear by feats and dialogue he was < the real Thor.

I don't really see how anyone can dispute that or dispute the fact that his general lack of experience prevented him from properly utilizing the power he had in the first place.

Originally posted by DTM
I never knew that, I always thought Masterson was basically a mortal with the power of Thor, least Im pretty sure thats how they treated it during the time Masterson was Thor anyway.

They did but later they nerfed him a bit. After all even thanos was taken aback by a Masterson hit.

Thanks for the second set of scans, carver

Question, though. In the scans, it shows Gladiator sneak attacking Thor, no? I mean, Thor gets a bit of an inkling an attack is about to happen, but as to when, he doesn't quite know..

And all of you have different interpretations of KO, lol. Thor's not KOed in those scans - he's shouting and boasting, as Thor usually does.

Originally posted by Stoic
They did but later they nerfed him a bit. After all even thanos was taken aback by a Masterson hit.

So initially he has the full power of Thor, then years later, after Masterson was Thunderstrike, they changed it around a bit. Sure sounds like a retcon to me.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thanks for the second set of scans, carver

Question, though. In the scans, it shows Gladiator sneak attacking Thor, no? I mean, Thor gets a bit of an inkling an attack is about to happen, but as to when, he doesn't quite know..

And all of you have different interpretations of KO, lol. Thor's not KOed in those scans - he's shouting and boasting, as Thor usually does.

He's referred to the fight I initally brought up in the second volume of Thor. Gladiator disarms Thor and punches him across the city, and 60 seconds expire in which Thor reverts to his mortal alter ego.

This happens after Gladiator heat visions Jake Olsen, and takes his ex's daughter hostage prior to Olsen turning into Thor. Gladiator is also trying to kill Thor while Thor is reasoning with him.

Once Thor has had enough and stops holding back through words and deeds, he fells Gladiator in a handful of blows.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thanks for the second set of scans, carver

Question, though. In the scans, it shows Gladiator sneak attacking Thor, no? I mean, Thor gets a bit of an inkling an attack is about to happen, but as to when, he doesn't quite know..

And all of you have different interpretations of KO, lol. Thor's not KOed in those scans - he's shouting and boasting, as Thor usually does.

Masterson snuck attack Gladiator though.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/503/72550699bs9.jpg/

Originally posted by carver9
Masterson snuck attack Gladiator though.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/503/72550699bs9.jpg/

No, I meant in the 2nd set of scans...just before the 'KO'.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's referred to the fight I initally brought up in the second volume of Thor. Gladiator disarms Thor and punches him across the city, and 60 seconds expire in which Thor reverts to his mortal alter ego.

This happens after Gladiator heat visions Jake Olsen, and takes his ex's daughter hostage prior to Olsen turning into Thor. Gladiator is also trying to kill Thor while Thor is reasoning with him.

Once Thor has had enough and stops holding back through words and deeds, he fells Gladiator in a handful of blows.

Using future versions, an exhausted/fatigued Gladiator= an amped Thor.

Originally posted by carver9
Masterson snuck attack Gladiator though.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/503/72550699bs9.jpg/


Yeah this scene happens right after Glads puts Simon to sleep. It should also be noted that Eric was very nervous and unsure of himself.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No, I meant in the 2nd set of scans...just before the 'KO'.

I get what you are saying but you also have to remember, Gladiator wasn't even 100% during that fight.

Originally posted by carver9
Using future versions, an exhausted/fatigued Gladiator= an amped Thor.

And a normal present day Thor > prepped, bloodlusted, hostage taking, weakness exploiting future Gladiator.

One guess as to which feat is more impressive.

GODDAMNIT I HATE CONTEXT IN FIGHTS!!!!! ARRRGGHHH!

Originally posted by Stoic
Yeah this scene happens right after Glads puts Simon to sleep. It should also be noted that Eric was very nervous and unsure of himself.


He was scared after seeing what Gladiator did to Wonderman. He even asks himself how can they defeat someone like Gladiator.

@Jake. Do you think that Thor is so far above Gladiator that if the both of them were prepared to do battle and both were in prime condition, that it would not be a very close fight?

I do however like how we all agree that Thanos' army is shit.

Originally posted by carver9
He was scared after seeing what Gladiator did to Wonderman. He even asks himself how can they defeat someone like Gladiator.


Actually he was nervous before Simon ever left the Quinjet if you recall. This is why Simon flipped on him, and went out alone, even knowing that Gladiator was going to bounce him off the walls.

Originally posted by carver9
He was scared after seeing what Gladiator did to Wonderman. He even asks himself how can they defeat someone like Gladiator.

And then Eric winds up beating Gladiator with some luck and Gladiator being a dumbass (which, I guess, is Eric's fault).

But in the end, we all agree Thor > Gladiator based on feats and respective encounters.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And a normal present day Thor > prepped, bloodlusted, hostage taking, weakness exploiting future Gladiator.

One guess as to which feat is more impressive.

Thor speed being boost all the way to hyper speed wasn't enough to take out a fatigued Gladiator that stalemated him. I'm more impressed with that one buddy.

Now looking at the fight you are referencing it still shines well for Gladiator since the guy lived and was up not to long from a blast that Rivaled Odins power AFTER being hit by a blast from Thor.

Regarding Masterson Thor being physically weaker and less powerful than normal Thor, this is from Marvel.com:

"Thor and Eric shared a body in the same manner in which Donald Blake and Thor had, although the latter two were never truly separate beings"

Kinda sounds like Masterson was basically in control of Thors actual body, so I dont see any reason he wouldnt have had Thors full power during that time.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I do however like how we all agree that Thanos' army is shit.

Well now that you mention it... that too.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I do however like how we all agree that Thanos' army is shit. http://www.brofist.org/g/src/129777996219.gif

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And then Eric winds up beating Gladiator with some luck and Gladiator being a dumbass (which, I guess, is Eric's fault).

But in the end, we all agree Thor > Gladiator based on feats and respective encounters.


Yes, Thor will beat Gladiator.

Originally posted by Stoic
@Jake. Do you think that Thor is so far above Gladiator that if the both of them were prepared to do battle and both were in prime condition, that it would not be a very close fight?

Conventionally, it would be a close fight.

But the fact that a non holding back Thor literally took down a Gladiator willing to kill in a handful of blows after exclaiming he can hold back no longer speaks volumes on where they stand unleashed.

Which is, as a matter of fact, consistent with each of their portrayals as a whole. Gladiator can fight Thor on even grounds and with some help even get the advantage. But Thor when he stops holding back is another level completely.

Can't see how any one can disagree, really, unless they think it's all PIS or something.

Originally posted by DTM
Regarding Masterson Thor being physically weaker and less powerful than normal Thor, this is from Marvel.com:

"Thor and Eric shared a body in the same manner in which Donald Blake and Thor had, although the latter two were never truly separate beings"

Kinda sounds like Masterson was basically in control of Thors actual body, so I dont see any reason he wouldnt have had Thors full power during that time.

Because the real Thor existed at the exact time that Masterson did?

He literally was chilling in Asgard as Masterson was on Midgard/Earth.

I dont know about that, nothing Im reading about this now, or remember reading back then, suggests that Thor was physically elsewhere when Masterson was playing Thor.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Conventionally, it would be a close fight.

But the fact that a non holding back Thor literally took down a Gladiator willing to kill in a handful of blows after exclaiming he can hold back no longer speaks volumes on where they stand unleashed.

Which is, as a matter of fact, consistent with each of their portrayals as a whole. Gladiator can fight Thor on even grounds and with some help even get the advantage. But Thor when he stops holding back is another level completely.

Can't see how any one can disagree, really, unless they think it's all PIS or something.


PIS could be argued Jake. Gladiator has the edge in speed reflexes, hyper fighting and all of that good stuff. Soooo....... But I still see Thor as being in control of more powerful forces than Gladiator. Not sure if Thor is stronger though, but then again when has strength been the deciding factor with guys at this level?

Jake, looks like scans and proof are in order!

Im lost, as I remember Masterson being Thor being the same as him being merged with Thor.

Also, from regular Wiki:

"Masterson was mortally wounded by Mongoose, and is given Thor's form and powers after the original is sealed in Eric's mind, by Odin, to save Eric's life"

I dont mean to get on your case Jake, I respect your opinions here, I just dont remember it that way. I remember Masterson having all the powers of Thor during his time as Thor, nothing really suggesting otherwise.

I enjoy Thor as a character but I can't picture him doing this. Just can't.



http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7626/nova1.th.jpghttp://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4430/nova2.th.jpghttp://img2.imageshack.us/img2/9594/nova3.th.jpghttp://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9054/nova4.th.jpg

Originally posted by Stoic
PIS could be argued Jake. Gladiator has the edge in speed reflexes, hyper fighting and all of that good stuff. Soooo....... But I still see Thor as being in control of more powerful forces than Gladiator. Not sure if Thor is stronger though, but then again when was strength been the deciding factor with guys at this level?

Not sure how it's PIS at all. Surely you wouldn't think Hulk beating up Gladiator is PIS, would you?

By feats, Thor is stronger. Not really anything to debate unless someone thinks breaking apart a planetoid/dead space rock trumps every and any strength feat Thor's ever done.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Jake, looks like scans and proof are in order!


Jake is correct, these are two different time periods.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Because the real Thor existed at the exact time that Masterson did?

He literally was chilling in Asgard as Masterson was on Midgard/Earth.
They both had the strength of Thor at that point. Thor was just buried too deep in Eric's subconsciousness. Eric had the full power of thor, there is no doubt about it.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not sure how it's PIS at all. Surely you wouldn't think Hulk beating up Gladiator is PIS, would you?

By feats, Thor is stronger. Not really anything to debate unless someone thinks breaking apart a planetoid/dead space rock trumps every and any strength feat Thor's ever done.


Just going on how easily Gladiator put Simon away. The Hulk is an entirely different ball of wax. His strength actually grows, and grows you knows.

Nevermind, I do see what youre saying about the merged Thor/Masterson and the seperate Masteron Thor, Jake (having read the Eric Masterson bio further), though I still dont see where its actually stated, during that time period, that Masterson had only a portion of Thors overall power. He sure wasnt displayed as such in the comics during this time.

Originally posted by carver9
I enjoy Thor as a character but I can't picture him doing this. Just can't.



http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7626/nova1.th.jpghttp://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4430/nova2.th.jpghttp://img2.imageshack.us/img2/9594/nova3.th.jpghttp://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9054/nova4.th.jpg

I can't picture Gladiator performing hardly any of Thor's high end feats. What's your point? barker

Originally posted by abhilegend
They both had the strength of Thor at that point. Thor was just buried too deep in Eric's subconsciousness. Eric had the full power of thor, there is no doubt about it.


Pretty much. Don't know where Jake is getting this from.

Originally posted by carver9
I enjoy Thor as a character but I can't picture him doing this. Just can't.



http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7626/nova1.th.jpghttp://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4430/nova2.th.jpghttp://img2.imageshack.us/img2/9594/nova3.th.jpghttp://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9054/nova4.th.jpg You realize Thor has feats that shit on that right?

But from what I've seen, his formidability decreases because he's constantly questioning himself and is unused to his powers.

Kinda like Hal/Kyle. Both had largely the same powersets, and abilities, but Kyle had less confidence in himself at the start.

What jake is talking about is Thor 459 where a freed from eric's subconsciousness thor and a mindcontrolled masterson thor went toe to toe. That was essentialy a stalemate too.

Originally posted by Stoic
Just going on how easily Gladiator put Simon away. The Hulk is an entirely different ball of wax. His strength actually grows, and grows you knows.

And Thing. He one shot him.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/123/95635323mg2.jpg/

Originally posted by Stoic
Just going on how easily Gladiator put Simon away. The Hulk is an entirely different ball of wax. His strength actually grows, and grows you knows.

So how is Thor beating Gladiator possibly PIS when you mentioned reflexes and hyperspeed fighting and whatnot, but Hulk beating him isn't?

Judging from your post you seem to be implying that Gladiator's speed advantage could be argued to be too much for Thor...but not Hulk?

Originally posted by iceman24567
You realize Thor has feats that shit on that right?

I'm basing it off of the Thor and Nova fight which was pretty decent.

Originally posted by carver9
And Thing. He one shot him.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/123/95635323mg2.jpg/

I guess you missed where Thor has easily one shot an amped Thing. As in actually one shot him (he was basically phucking dead). To say nothing of brutally destroying him in melee during First Thuner.

For the record, I do think Thor would beat Gladiator in a fight, but it would be one heck of a fight. Im more posting here to support Masterson Thor having the same powers as regular Thor.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So how is Thor beating Gladiator possibly PIS when you mentioned reflexes and hyperspeed fighting and whatnot, but Hulk beating him isn't?

Judging from your post you seem to be implying that Gladiator's speed advantage could be argued to be too much for Thor...but not Hulk?

It's not PIS for either of them since both can beat Glads imo.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What jake is talking about is Thor 459 where a freed from eric's subconsciousness thor and a mindcontrolled masterson thor went toe to toe. That was essentialy a stalemate too.

Not sure how a crazy violent Masterson being stalemated by a holding back Thor is something to argue Masterson being equal to Thor.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I guess you missed where Thor has easily one shot an amped Thing. As in actually one shot him (he was basically phucking dead). To say nothing of brutally destroying him in melee during First Thuner.

So you think Thor without his hammer can one shot Thing?

Originally posted by carver9
I'm basing it off of the Thor and Nova fight which was pretty decent.
Thor was mindcontrolled.

Originally posted by carver9
And Thing. He one shot him.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/123/95635323mg2.jpg/ Thor killed amped thing just by recalling his hammer so lulz

Originally posted by carver9
It's not PIS for either of them since both can beat Glads imo.

Exactly.

Which is why I find it out that PIS "could be argued" when Thor beats Gladiator, but not when Hulk does it.

Especially when Thor has more options when it comes to countering speed that Hulk does by far.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not sure how a crazy violent Masterson being stalemated by a holding back Thor is something to argue Masterson being equal to Thor.

IIRC, didn't Thor 459 take place "after" the Masterson and Gladiator fight?

Originally posted by carver9
So you think Thor without his hammer can one shot Thing?

Yes, I do.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thor was mindcontrolled.

I know but he still wasn't holding back his strength BUT, I wouldn't call that a legit fight anyways...I think Thor was going through some spells during that fight.

Mind control isn't valid. Period.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not sure how a crazy violent Masterson being stalemated by a holding back Thor is something to argue Masterson being equal to Thor.
Thor wasn't holding back after masterson striked Sif and even after that it was a stalemate. Then you consider that Eric was mindcontrolled. Masterson thor was every bit equal of thor, he just lacked the warrior spirit.

I dont believe Thor without his hammer could one shot KO Thing, unless Thing was taken completely by surprise. Thing has fought the Hulk too many time for me to believe that a hammerless Thor can KO Thing with a single shot mid-combat.

Originally posted by DTM
I dont believe Thor without his hammer could one shot KO Thing, unless Thing was taken completely by surprise. Thing has fought the Hulk too many time for me to believe that a hammerless Thor can KO Thing with a single shot mid-combat.

I don't either.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thor wasn't holding back after masterson striked Sif and even after that it was a stalemate. Then you consider that Eric was mindcontrolled. Masterson thor was every bit equal of thor, he just lacked the warrior spirit.

He was angry but even then was talking Eric down, expressing regret and conflict over the fight whereas Eric didn't give a damn and was pissy.

He was valiant and noble, but he wasn't equal to Thor.

Originally posted by DTM
I dont believe Thor without his hammer could one shot KO Thing, unless Thing was taken completely by surprise. Thing has fought the Hulk too many time for me to believe that a hammerless Thor can KO Thing with a single shot mid-combat.

Considering his physical strength completely dwarfs Thing and his other feats to consider, I'd have to disagree.

Originally posted by carver9
IIRC, didn't Thor 459 take place "after" the Masterson and Gladiator fight?
Now I recall something that I didn't at first. Karnilla sapped half of masterson's strength just a few issues before the gladiator fight which didn't return untill Thor 455. So it was gladiator vs a drastically weakened thor where masterson nearly killed kallark.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Considering his physical strength completely dwarfs Thing and his other feats to consider, I'd have to disagree.

To me, Thor is not stronger than the Hulk, and clearly Thing fights the Hulk and lasts more than a single punch, generally alot more, so yeah Im heavily supporting if Thing is ready for a fight, Thor (let alone a weaponless Thor) should not be able to KO him with one blow. It goes against virtually every fight Ive ever seen Thing involved in.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He was angry but even then was talking Eric down, expressing regret and conflict over the fight whereas Eric didn't give a damn and was pissy.

He was valiant and noble, but he wasn't equal to Thor.
Nope. Read the fight again. That doesn't makes any sense. How's Eric masterson controlling thor's body less strong than thor controlling thor's body? Thor didn't go anywhere, he was banished deep into eric's mind while eric was in charge of Thor's body.

Yeah, Thor isn't koing thing at his average in one blow. Gladiator did it twice btw.

Originally posted by DTM
To me, Thor is not stronger than the Hulk, and clearly Thing fights the Hulk and lasts more than a single punch, so yeah Im heavily supporting if Thing is ready for a fight, Thor (let alone a weaponless Thor) should not be able to KO him with one blow. It goes against virtually every fight Ive ever seen Thing involved in.

He's not stronger than Hulk, but his strength is sufficient to match Savage Hulk's own for hours on end, which is greater than than Ben's.

You also have to consider Thor's own feats, not just how Hulk and Thing fare in opposition to one another.

Originally posted by DTM
To me, Thor is not stronger than the Hulk, and clearly Thing fights the Hulk and lasts more than a single punch, so yeah Im heavily supporting if Thing is ready for a fight, Thor (let alone a weaponless Thor) should not be able to KO him with one blow. It goes against virtually every fight Ive ever seen Thing involved in. You think Thor cant do it with mjolnir?

With Mjolnir, Thor's literally shattered Thing's jaw off and broke his arm in pieces. And the mere act of summoning Mjolnir would have killed an amped Thing had it not been for Franklin.

Without Mjolnir, given Thor's strength, which is exceptionally higher than Ben's (don't see how anyone can argue this), it's certainly possible he could one shot Ben.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope. Read the fight again. That doesn't makes any sense. How's Eric masterson controlling thor's body less strong than thor controlling thor's body? Thor didn't go anywhere, he was banished deep into eric's mind while eric was in charge of Thor's body.

Because Masterson is a noob. I mean, in the scans carver posted, he even goes as far as to say 'I sometimes forget that good ole' Mjolnir can summon the elements of the storm - and that includes lightning'.

You think Thor would forget he can summon lightning?

Thor knocked Thing jaw off with Mjlonir but he didn't ko him. I think he can possibly do it with the hammer but looking at Things showing, Thor being able to do this contradicts a lot. Colossonaut, Juggernaut, Hulk, along with others wasn't able to do this so why would Thor?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because Masterson is a noob. I mean, in the scans carver posted, he even goes as far as to say 'I sometimes forget that good ole' Mjolnir can summon the elements of the storm - and that includes lightning'.

You think Thor would forget he can summon lightning? He forgets all the time

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's not stronger than Hulk, but his strength is sufficient to match Savage Hulk's own for hours on end, which is greater than than Ben's.

You also have to consider Thor's own feats, not just how Hulk and Thing fare in opposition to one another.

I think youre misunderstanding my meaning, Im not saying Thing could beat Thor, he cant, but that Thing is strong enough to last a good amount more than just a single punch from Thor (hammered or otherwise), just as he does in his numerous fights with Hulk.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope. Read the fight again. That doesn't makes any sense. How's Eric masterson controlling thor's body less strong than thor controlling thor's body? Thor didn't go anywhere, he was banished deep into eric's mind while eric was in charge of Thor's body.

I'm reading it right now, thanks.

Take it up with how they're actually portrayed on panel. Thor is clearly superior to Eric while holding back, and it's not just a skill/experience factor. Thor being angry doesn't mean he's going all out. It's evident by his regret and the conflict within him - pointed out by others watching - that he's not giving it his all. Conversely, Eric is raging pissed and trying to prove he's better than Thor, which is clearly is not.

Moot point per Pr's ruling, though, anyway.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because Masterson is a noob. I mean, in the scans carver posted, he even goes as far as to say 'I sometimes forget that good ole' Mjolnir can summon the elements of the storm - and that includes lightning'.

You think Thor would forget he can summon lightning?
I'm talking about strength specifically. That was masterson at half the strength btw.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
You think Thor cant do it with mjolnir?

With a single strike, while Ben is ready for a fight, no, I dont. Thors hammer shouldnt hit harder (or that much harder) than a punch from Hulk, and Ben lasts quite a bit against his numerous battles with Bruce.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm talking about strength specifically. That was masterson at half the strength btw.

He got his power restored back to him. Don't know why you keep saying that.

Originally posted by carver9
Thor knocked Thing jaw off with Mjlonir but he didn't ko him. I think he can possibly do it with the hammer but looking at Things showing, Thor being able to do this contradicts a lot. Colossonaut, Juggernaut, Hulk, along with others wasn't able to do this so why would Thor?

Because Thor with Mjolnir is a beast? Let alone when he's phucking pissed off?

And I'd say physically wrecking Ben literally to the point where chunks of his body is falling off is more impressive than punching him once and having him say "...wow..." all groggily.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm reading it right now, thanks.

Take it up with how they're actually portrayed on panel. Thor is clearly superior to Eric while holding back, and it's not just a skill/experience factor. Thor being angry doesn't mean he's going all out. It's evident by his regret and the conflict within him - pointed out by others watching - that he's not giving it his all. Conversely, Eric is raging pissed and trying to prove he's better than Thor, which is clearly is not.

Moot point per Pr's ruling, though, anyway.
That doesn't prove anything. Neither masterson nor thor were holding back. Answer the question, is masterson controlling thor's body somehow less strong than thor controlling thor's body? If yes, how?

Originally posted by carver9
He got his power restored back to him. Don't know why you keep saying that.
In Thor 455. Gladiator fight was in Thor 445.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Because Thor with Mjolnir is a beast? Let alone when he's phucking pissed off?

And I'd say physically wrecking Ben literally to the point where chunks of his body is falling off is more impressive than punching him once and having him say "...wow..." all groggily.


Well the Hulk recently ripped a piece of his forehead off.

Not only is Masterson in Thors body, but hes also wielding Mjolnir, THE Mjolnir, not some other enchanted weapon.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Because Thor with Mjolnir is a beast? Let alone when he's phucking pissed off?

And I'd say physically wrecking Ben literally to the point where chunks of his body is falling off is more impressive than punching him once and having him say "...wow..." all groggily.

But Thing withstood 3 licks from WWH and it was stated on panel that Green Scar hits harder than Thor.

http://s663.photobucket.com/albums/uu355/ankur29/?action=view&current=IncredibleHulks620027-1.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
That doesn't prove anything. Neither masterson nor thor were holding back. Answer the question, is masterson controlling thor's body somehow less strong than thor controlling thor's body? If yes, how?

Yeah, Masterson in control of Thor's body is weaker than Thor controlling it. Namely because Masterson's noobness extended to virtually every aspect of his being, not just powers in the general sense with Mjolnir. When he was unsure of himself, he got hurt more often than he should have if he was really Thor. His strength displays were mediocre in comparison to Thor. We also have dialogue coming from his own mouth and others that while he was Thor and/or possessed the power of Thor, he wasn't the real deal.

Same way how someone who mindswaps into another body can't fully access powers in the same way the original can.

I mean, we see it clearly on panel. We see a clear difference between power showings between Masterson and the real Thor. Why we're arguing it beyond me.

Originally posted by carver9
But Thing withstood 3 licks from WWH and it was stated on panel that Green Scar hits harder than Thor.

http://s663.photobucket.com/albums/uu355/ankur29/?action=view&current=IncredibleHulks620027-1.jpg Umm thats a Hulk comic written by Pak if i can remember

Originally posted by abhilegend
In Thor 455. Gladiator fight was in Thor 445.

I think you got your issue numbers wrong because I know what scene you are talking about. Let me see if I can find it...one sec.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well the Hulk recently ripped a piece of his forehead off.

Not disputing that.

I just don't see why Thor physically ripping Ben apart with Mjolnir is some kind of crazy feat for Thor and/or low feat for Ben. It's really not. The gap between them is immense.

Thor should not be able to rip thru Thing with ease, as weve seen Thing fight beings in Thors level, and while losing, he does last a decent length of time. Thor one shotting Ben is going against most every fight Ben has been in.

Originally posted by carver9
But Thing withstood 3 licks from WWH and it was stated on panel that Green Scar hits harder than Thor.

http://s663.photobucket.com/albums/uu355/ankur29/?action=view&current=IncredibleHulks620027-1.jpg

Statements mean little if contradicted by actual on panel feats. Though feats, I'd concede Hulk can hit harder than Thor with Mjolnir, but Thor hitting with Mjolnir while raging pissed does shit like one shot people otherwise considered a peer to him, shatter Celestial armor, and perform other absurd feats clearly well above Ben's pay grade.

To that end, whether or not Green Scar can hit harder than Thor is irrelevant as Hulk was holding back in that instance and Thor clearly wasn't. And that wasn't even Thor's best striking feat. At all.

Originally posted by DTM
Thor should not be able to rip thru Thing with ease, as weve seen Thing fight beings in Thors level, and while losing, he does last a decent length of time. Thor one shotting Ben is going against most every fight Ben has been in.

Well, he did. Twice. And on another time, solo'd the F4.

Thor is significantly above Thing both in terms of feats and how they look when they fight one another, especially when Thor doesn't hold back.

It's really not contradictory at all.

Yes, it is, for Thing is definately is. Thor should not be able to rip Thing to pieces like nothing, not after all the Major League fights Thing has been in, and lasted quite a decent length of time. Again, Im not saying Thor loses to Thing, hell always win, and while their matches wont bring Thor to his breaking point, he also shouldnt be able to beat Thing easily. Doing so goes against just about every big fight weve seen Thing in.

Originally posted by DTM
Yes, it is, for Thing is definately is. Thor should not be able to rip Thing to pieces like nothing, not after all the Major League fights Thing has been in, and lasted quite a decent length of time. Again, Im not saying Thor loses to Thing, hell always win, and while their matches wont bring Thor to his breaking point, he also shouldnt be able to beat Thing easily. Doing so goes against just about every big fight weve seen Thing in.

When you look at what Thor is ultimately capable of when compared to Thing....I honestly don't see why it's such an extreme display of strength/power.

Thing can give Thor a decent brawl when Thor is holding back. As soon as he goes all out, he's beyond Thing, clearly and to such a degree it's borderline spite. To claim otherwise is to ignore and go against Thor's plethora of feats.

Every time they've squared off, Thing has looked mightily inferior to Thor, let alone a non-holding back one.

Yes, agreed, Thing is inferior to Thor, no one is denying that. What I am denying is that Thor can KO him with a single strike when Ben is ready for a fight (aka not a sucker punch). If this actually happened, its a very weak showing for Ben, who has made a career of fighting characters out of his weight class, and lasting a long time (Champion, Hulk, Rulk, Colossusnaut, even Thanos)

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, Masterson in control of Thor's body is weaker than Thor controlling it. Namely because Masterson's noobness extended to virtually every aspect of his being, not just powers in the general sense with Mjolnir. When he was unsure of himself, he got hurt more often than he should have if he was really Thor. His strength displays were mediocre in comparison to Thor. We also have dialogue coming from his own mouth and others that while he was Thor and/or possessed the power of Thor, he wasn't the real deal.

Same way how someone who mindswaps into another body can't fully access powers in the same way the original can.

I mean, we see it clearly on panel. We see a clear difference between power showings between Masterson and the real Thor. Why we're arguing it beyond me.
ORLY? Where was thor shown to be stronger? Certainly not in this fight
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonThor1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonThor2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonThor3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonThor4.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonThor5.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonThor6.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonThor7.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonThor8.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonThor9.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonThor10.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonThor11.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonThor12.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonThor13.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonThor14.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsMastersonThor15.jpg

Any high herald should be able to one-shot Thing... Seriously.

If you're going to argue that Thor can't do it, what about the likes of Superman, Gladiator et al?

Originally posted by DTM
Yes, agreed, Thing is inferior to Thor, no one is denying that. What I am denying is that Thor can KO him with a single strike when Ben is ready for a fight (aka not a sucker punch). If this actually happened, its a very weak showing for Ben, who has made a career of fighting characters out of his weight class, and lasting a long time (Champion, Hulk, Rulk, even Thanos)

Given Thor's feats, with and without Mjolnir, I think the idea that Thor can't KO Thing with a single punch is kinda silly. The idea that Thor can't KO Thing with a single Mjolnir strike is highly illogical.

Thor can, at the very least, punch Ben with enough force to send him through cars on the street and elicit the same reaction as Gladiator did. Don't see how anyone can deny that at all.