Android 18 Vs. Wonder Woman

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Kazenji
Wonder woman is post crisis pre DCnU

Fight!!

Zack Fair
Diana for the win

BruceSkywalker
android 18 gets punched and then dies

Damborgson
I'd actually love to see this. But Diana would win for being all around superior.

Harbinger
Juuhachigou likely gets one-shotted.

Robtard
LoL, you people...

18 beat the crap out of a SSJ Vegeta and broke his arm. SSJ Vegeta > Wonder Woman.

Harbinger
Carver?

Nephthys
DBZ vs DC.

This aught to be good.

http://i.imgur.com/I6GSf.gif

Robtard
SSJ Vegeta is a casual planet buster and fights faster than the eye can see. Add his energy projection attacks, he obliterates her before she can start spinning. 18 does the same.

Nephthys
WW could block anything energy based he threw at her with the bracelets.

Falcon Man
Originally posted by Nephthys
DBZ vs DC.

This aught to be good.

http://i.imgur.com/I6GSf.gif

Squirrel Girl solos them both.

Now, as for this match, I'll go with Diana. I believe she was able to tag Zoom whilst blindfolded IIRC. WW outmatches 18 in speed.

Harbinger
Diana's moved fast enough to enter the gotdamned Speed Force under her own power. Vegeta doesn't touch Wondy unless she wants him to.

She either incapacitates him with a lasso throw, blocks his energy attacks with her bracers, or straight up wrecks him with a tiara throw. To say nothing of her strength and skill.

Robtard
Oh, boy. This nonsense again. WW entered the SF with help, frikkin portal was left open for her to enter. It's not like she's Flash and can enter at will.

Lasso's not hitting Vegeta. She's not blocking all attacks which are faster than she can handle. Tiara throw? Really now. Lol. She's stronger at lifting, yes. He's either her equal or likely the better fighter, considering he's a Saiyan and that's all they do.

Nephthys
The tiara slit Supermans throat dude. Don't underestimate the bling.

Robtard
Not its power. That he thinks it's going to hit a SSJ Vegeta in the first place.

Harbinger
WTF has any DBZ character ever done speed wise that indicates that Vegeta can hang with a higher end character like Diana? There's nothing he's done that says he can dodge being roped in by the lasso (particularly since she's managed to lasso Zoom), or that he can get off an energy attack that gets past her bracers. And if a tiara throw can do this:

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr138/fangirl102/job146fc.jpg

It's doing serious damage to Vegeta.

Robtard
Fight faster than Diana, for one. The fact you need to bring in Diana's gear to even have a chance should let you know who's the better/more powerful fighter.

Yes, I know the comic. It'd have to connect with Vegeta first; it isn't. Which is the point. Vegeta's not standing around like a mind controlled Superman asking to be hit.

Q99
Originally posted by Nephthys
DBZ vs DC.

This aught to be good.


The thing about the two of them, is they both have a sense of scale when it comes to destruction and strength different from reality.

And their different senses of scale are really different from each other!

Harbinger
Her gear simply allows for an easier avenue to score wins; given her strength/skill, they're most certainly not the only means for her to win against 18 (or, since we've gotten off track here, Vegeta). Whether he stands still or actively attempts to dodge them is irrelevant given that she's been able to lasso opponents faster than the Good Prince.

Beyond this, I'm having a tough time figuring out how Vegeta puts her down. Energy attacks aren't doing it (any attack strong enough to KO her is out given the long charge time), and her own durability to blunt force is crazy high (surviving being punched from the Sun to Earth at FTL speeds for starters).

But whatever. We're arguing past each other here, and neither of us is going to convince the other. I'm done here.

Robtard
Concession accepted.

Harbinger
If that makes your e-dick swell with joy, have at it. I rarely do back and forths here; it's not why I post. Given that we damn sure don't see eye to eye on this one, I don't really see the point in repeating myself and turning this into some multipage affair.

Robtard
Stop talking about my eDick. I mean, at least take me out to dinner first.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, you people...

18 beat the crap out of a SSJ Vegeta and broke his arm. SSJ Vegeta > Wonder Woman.

A>B>C logic tends to fail when we're talking characters from different universes/stories/genres/whatever IMO.

I think Diana has lots of ways to win the fight. Whereas 18 is limited imo.

BloodRain
Isnt Diana meant to be faster than Superman, at least in h2h?

Nephthys
It was said here:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/61455/2472914-2472863_wonder_woman_vs_superman4.jpg

I'm not sure if Trinity (the arc this was in) is canon though. I think it is.

BloodRain
Even if it isn't she's still been on Superman's level in speed and strength, so she destroys 18.

Zack Fair
Current Diana gets owned though.

Nephthys
Didn't current Wonder Woman own a god recently?

Q99
Originally posted by Nephthys
It was said here:

I'm not sure if Trinity (the arc this was in) is canon though. I think it is.

It is.

There's also another Trinity story about how they first met which isn't canon, but the maxiseries trinity is.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Didn't current Wonder Woman own a god recently?

Yea, Artemis.

She took off her bracers to do so, which increases her power.

Dunno how strong DCnU gods are, but she did have the upper hand against Hal Jordan with the bracers still on (though to be fair, recent Hal has... not been impressive compared to pre-reboot Hal. Even though the GL story is one of the ones continuing on).

Lord Lucien
The bullet blocking argument doesn't amount to much when the weakest and most pathetic character in DBZ was still capable of this (:45).


I don't know much about Wonder Woman, but how is she going to hit Android 18, or block any area of effect attacks akin to this, or dodge something like this?

Nephthys
Wonder Woman has blocked the combined power of the Greek Pantheon with her bracelets. Here and here. And if you're talking just area of effect her bracelets create a force field when she crosses them.

Lord Lucien
I honestly can't tell what's happening in the first two--looks impressive though.

Questions: Is WW physically capable of withstanding 18's strikes (as in her flesh and bone, not her bracelets)? Is her Force field capable of A) surrounding her body? and B) strong enough to withstand DBZ energy attacks? Can she keep up with 18's speed? And are WW's strikes strong enough to hurt 18.

Nobody seems to be answering in much detail.

BloodRain
WW can take hits from Superman and match his speed, so yes to taking 18's hits, keeping up with her and dealing damage.

Forcefields are tougher than herself, they can probably take all but the strongest ki blasts.

Robtard
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The bullet blocking argument doesn't amount to much when the weakest and most pathetic character in DBZ was still capable of this (:45).


I don't know much about Wonder Woman, but how is she going to hit Android 18, or block any area of effect attacks akin to this, or dodge something like this?

Not to mention that DBZ attacks are about lightspeed levels. Piccolo (at PwrLv 322) in early DBZ shoots the moon and it's destroyed about 1.5 seconds later.

By the end of BDZ, Vegeta is more powerful than Perfect Cell (PwrLv 165,000,000).

Lord Lucien
Does anyone have scans of her bracelets deflecting or blocking something that we can compare to ki blasts? Like, what's the most powerful/largest/most destructive thing her bracelets have withstood? And once again, can they cover her entire body? Cuz if they can, and if they've been shown to withstand attacks that would otherwise obliterate the world she's standing on, she'd be very likely to win.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not to mention that DBZ attacks are about lightspeed levels. Piccolo in early DBZ shoots the moon and it's destroyed about 1.5 seconds. True dat. Can Diana block energy attacks powerful enough to obliterate satellites at light speed? That was Saiyan saga Piccolo, 18 circa the Android saga is several hundred... thousand times more powerful than him.

Originally posted by Robtard
By the end of BDZ, Vegeta is more powerful than Perfect Cell (PwrLv 165,000,000). I think you're off there. Goku was at 150 million while fighting Frieza (120 mil., I believe). By the time we get to Perfect Cell, we have to be approaching the billions.



Really... TFS said it best.

Robtard
Android 18 was at PwrLv 23,000,000, if the internet can be trusted.

BloodRain
It can't.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Robtard
Android 18 was at PwrLv 23,000,000, if the internet can be trusted. The levels change from source to source. Different dubs, manga, games etc. Most seem to go by the Funimation dub, which is what I cited above.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I honestly can't tell what's happening in the first two--looks impressive though.

The Greek Pantheon creates some stupid fireball and she deflects it.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Questions: Is WW physically capable of withstanding 18's strikes (as in her flesh and bone, not her bracelets)?

IDK. How strong is 18?

Wonder Woman has taken blows from bloodlusted Superman before. Professor Zoom was also beating her up at one point with lightspeed attacks and she claimed it hit harder than Supeman. Naturally she shrugged it off and beat him.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Is her Force field capable of A) surrounding her body? and B) strong enough to withstand DBZ energy attacks?

I don't know if it surrounds her. The Force Field is part of her bracelets so I assume its as strong as they are. Also since as you can see it blocked Power Girls punch, yeah probably.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Can she keep up with 18's speed?

She once beat up the Justice League while bindfolded. It was noted she was having trouble with Flash's speed but then compensated and got a punch in.

Here she gets punched at the speed of light by Zoom (as fast as the Flash) and then claims that he's not actually faster than her. She later beats him by kicking rocks at him and then lassoing him. While blind.

Theres also this. From what I've heard all those streaks of light are moving at lightspeed.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And are WW's strikes strong enough to hurt 18.

How durable is 18?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Nobody seems to be answering in much detail.

I hope that helped.

Lek Kuen
Her bracers do create a force field all around her body. Atleast they did preflashpoint.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Nephthys
The Greek Pantheon creates some stupid fireball and she deflects it.Oh, looked like a meteor.



Originally posted by Nephthys
IDK. How strong is 18?

Wonder Woman has taken blows from bloodlusted Superman before. Professor Zoom was also beating her up at one point with lightspeed attacks and she claimed it hit harder than Supeman. Naturally she shrugged it off and beat him. Characters thousands of times weaker than 18 have been seen punching, kicking, smashing, and being smashed in to solid rock multiple times. Occasionally we also see them shredding metal with ease-- watch Nappa do it to a plane for fun in the show's intro. 18 doing so here (8:44) to some cop cars. For context, Trunks' sword cut Frieza (someone about 30,000 time stronger than Nappa) in to ribbons--that sword shattered when it touched 18's arm.



Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't know if it surrounds her. The Force Field is part of her bracelets so I assume its as strong as they are. Also since as you can see it blocked Power Girls punch, yeah probably.Alright now we just need to know how much can Diana's bracelets withstand (physically and energy-wise).



Originally posted by Nephthys
She once beat up the Justice League while bindfolded. It was noted she was having trouble with Flash's speed but then compensated and got a punch in.

Here she gets punched at the speed of light by Zoom (as fast as the Flash) and then claims that he's not actually faster than her. She later beats him by kicking rocks at him and then lassoing him. While blind.

Theres also this. From what I've heard all those streaks of light are moving at lightspeed. The Flash moves at light speed, right?

I don't know what to make of the time traveling guy, honestly.

So far, I'm going with DBZ speed here. They move many times the speed of the light just in the opening episodes; see Piccolo's moon beam, Raditz dodging the Special Beam Cannon. As of the Android saga, character fighting speed is... ludicrous.

Robtard
LL pwns the thread. Good work; that will show them.

Zack Fair
I think Diana's bracelets will tank/deflect any energy beam 18 can dish out. If 18 gets hit by WW's tiara it is GG. Same with the lasso...unless 18 has no soul. Physically/Hand 2 hand well I think its a closer fight with Diana having the edge in skill and possibly strength/durability.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Zack Fair
I think Diana's bracelets will tank/deflect any energy beam 18 can dish out. I doubt that. Small ones, sure. But the massive, planet-cracking, earth-scarring kind that any DBZ character can throw out with ease, I doubt it. At least until someone posts a scan of Diana deflecting something like that, I'm going avoid no-limits and assume that she can't. Plus that one small fireball Neph posted looked like it took some effort.

Originally posted by Robtard
LL pwns the thread. Good work; that will show them. I just can't believe there was only two of us.

Q99
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I doubt that. Small ones, sure. But the massive, planet-cracking, earth-scarring kind that any DBZ character can throw out with ease, I doubt it. At least until someone posts a scan of Diana deflecting something like that, I'm going avoid no-limits and assume that she can't. Plus that one small fireball Neph posted looked like it took some effort.



With classic Diana, she's blocked stuff like Darkseid's Omega Effect.

In all of the DC continuity that ran from Crisis on Infinite Earths to Flash Point, it was never once broken.

Blight
Flash is many many many times faster than the speed of light. He moves at attoseconds and faster. Zoom is faster than the flash.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Q99
With classic Diana, she's blocked stuff like Darkseid's Omega Effect.

In all of the DC continuity that ran from Crisis on Infinite Earths to Flash Point, it was never once broken. And it still fits in to a beam the size of a human wrist. Those ki attacks I really think she'd block with ease. I'm talking about the ones the size of mountains. The ones that easily--I stress that word, easily evaporate mountains.

ares834
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Characters thousands of times weaker than 18 have been seen punching, kicking, smashing, and being smashed in to solid rock multiple times. Occasionally we also see them shredding metal with ease-- watch Nappa do it to a plane for fun in the show's intro. 18 doing so here (8:44) to some cop cars. For context, Trunks' sword cut Frieza (someone about 30,000 time stronger than Nappa) in to ribbons--that sword shattered when it touched 18's arm.

Being thousands of times stronger than someone who is able to smash people into rock does not put her in WW's strength range. She is, after all, nearly as strong as Superman. And WW, GL, and Superman were able to move the earth.


Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Alright now we just need to know how much can Diana's bracelets withstand (physically and energy-wise).

Being able to block the combined power of the Greek Pantheon would place her bracers well beyond the planetary level (although that may be PC not sure). Still, as Q99 said, she was able to deflect the Omega Beams which is incredible.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The Flash moves at light speed, right?

No. Far faster.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So far, I'm going with DBZ speed here. They move many times the speed of the light just in the opening episodes; see Piccolo's moon beam, Raditz dodging the Special Beam Cannon. As of the Android saga, character fighting speed is... ludicrous.

Them moving FTL in the opening episodes is non-canon. This is because the English dub is mangled and the anime is considered non-canon.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by ares834
Being thousands of times stronger than someone who is able to smash people into rock does not put her in WW's strength range. She is, after all, nearly as strong as Superman. And WW, GL, and Superman were able to move the earth. Kay. I think she definitely has enough physical strength. Can Superman or Wonder Woman blow up a planet without breaking a sweat? Or rather, can they resist an attack that can blow up a planet with ease? If they can, I think we've got a tie.




Originally posted by ares834
Being able to block the combined power of the Greek Pantheon would place her bracers well beyond the planetary level (although that may be PC not sure). Still, as Q99 said, she was able to deflect the Omega Beams which is incredible.I'm seeing a problem emerging of measuring ki output versus... god(?) power output. Still, I just echo my above point.



Originally posted by ares834
No. Far faster.



Them moving FTL in the opening episodes is non-canon. This is because the English dub is mangled and the anime is considered non-canon. If you're suggesting the Dragonball anime be ignored and we use solely the manga, then I would kindly ask you to f*ck off. Though I wouldn't ask you that cuz I like you... smile

Still, the moon is 350,000+ km away from Earth, and Saiyan saga (read: weak as all f*ck) Piccolo obliterated it with one hand with very little effort in seconds. Saiyan saga (read: weak as f*ck) Vegeta did the same thing to Arlia and its moon. Literally multiply their power by about 30,000. I'm sorry, I'm just not impressed by Wonder Woman.


Yet.

EDIT: I just watched the scene again, and Piccolo's beam reaches the Moon pretty much right away, but it still takes a couple of seconds to blow.

ares834
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Kay. I think she definitely has enough physical strength. Can Superman or Wonder Woman blow up a planet without breaking a sweat? Or rather, can they resist an attack that can blow up a planet with ease? If they can, I think we've got a tie.

Not on an average, no.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien I'm seeing a problem emerging of measuring ki output versus... god(?) power output. Still, I just echo my above point.

Well, as mentioned earlier when she crosses them they create a force field.


Originally posted by Lord Lucien
If you're suggesting the Dragonball anime be ignored and we use solely the manga, then I would kindly ask you to f*ck off. Though I wouldn't ask you that cuz I like you... smile

Still, the moon is 350,000+ km away from Earth, and Saiyan saga (read: weak as all f*ck) Piccolo obliterated it with one hand with very little effort in seconds. Saiyan saga (read: weak as f*ck) Vegeta did the same thing to Arlia and its moon. Literally multiply their power by about 30,000. I'm sorry, I'm just not impressed by Wonder Woman.


Yet.

Hmm... Generally it seems to be the way people debate DBZ they restrict it to the manga but if we use the anime I could see the Android winning this. Of course, they also have low showings like Super Saiyan Goku getting hurt by a rock or a elephant.

Also, power levels don't seem to scale linearly. Otherwise the farmer in the first episode with a PL of 5 should be able to destroy mountains.

Blight
Originally posted by Blight
Flash is many many many times faster than the speed of light. He moves at attoseconds and faster. Zoom is faster than the flash.

Lord Lucien
Yeah consistency isn't that franchise's niche. But the manga just kind of... uggh. What I want to know is just how much, uh, force let's say, Diana's bracelets can withstand. Like if the Omega Beam had missed her, would it have annihilated half a continent? Cuz something so destructive that can be thrown out with such ease would need to be countered again and again and again. So if she's fast to block them, can she block them. Ditto for her force field.

Blight
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah consistency isn't that franchise's niche. But the manga just kind of... uggh. What I want to know is just how much, uh, force let's say, Diana's bracelets can withstand. Like if the Omega Beam had missed her, would it have annihilated half a continent? Cuz something so destructive that can be thrown out with such ease would need to be countered again and again and again. So if she's fast to block them, can she block them. Ditto for her force field.
The omega beam can kill just about anyone pretty much no matter what. It can also teleport or cause severe pain. It depends on what Darkseid wants it
to do if I recall correctly.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Blight
The omega beam can kill just about anyone pretty much no matter what. It can also teleport or cause severe pain. It depends on what Darkseid wants it
to do if I recall correctly. B*tchin. So there's no absolutely no limit to its range or destructive power? He wants to blow up a planet, boom, its done?

Blight
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
B*tchin. So there's no absolutely no limit to its range or destructive power? He wants to blow up a planet, boom, its done?
That I'm not certain of. Kirby Darkseid, probably. Though I don't recall seeing him hit a planet with it.

Q99
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
B*tchin. So there's no absolutely no limit to its range or destructive power? He wants to blow up a planet, boom, its done?


There was a story where he used it to teleport a planet between systems (One of it's secondary functions- once something is un-made with the beams, he can re-make them as well).

NemeBro
Originally posted by Robtard
Not to mention that DBZ attacks are about lightspeed levels. Piccolo (at PwrLv 322) in early DBZ shoots the moon and it's destroyed about 1.5 seconds later.

By the end of BDZ, Vegeta is more powerful than Perfect Cell (PwrLv 165,000,000). Lolanime.

Only the manga is canon.

Pre-reboot Diana punches Android 18's head off.

Android 18's best punch on the other hand couldn't so much as blemish Diana.

Q99
Then we could go all the way to pre Crisis Wonder Woman!.... who once towed the sun with her lasso.

NemeBro
How strong is DCnU Diana Q99?

Haven't kept up with her like, at all.

ares834
Her best feat is probably casually busting a Green Lantern shield. And, while not exactly a strength feat,, she gets a tremendous boost when she removes her bracers (they supposedly inhibit some of her godly power). She does this against Artemis, initially she is losing the fight but once she removes her bracers she stomps Artemis.

Zack Fair
She kicked DCNU Superman too.

Nephthys
If Wonder Woman truly gets into trouble she could always just use the Godwave to pull out an easy win. IIRC it elevates her to Skyfather level briefly. No way is 18 standing up to that.

Falcon Man
Originally posted by Nephthys
There's also this. From what I've heard all those streaks of light are moving at lightspeed.

You're missing some context from that last scan. Here's the rest of the it.

http://i.imgur.com/6FceH.jpg

As you can see, Shatter God mentions that those lights are pieces of himself that he's summoning from the corners/edges of the universe. Assuming that's true, they would at least have had to have crossed the distance of the observable universe; which consists of hundreds of billions of galaxies (possibly more).

In other words, those lights are moving so fast they make the speed of light seem positively laughable in comparison. Wonder Woman was able to deflect and intercept a whole bunch of them, so that makes her even faster.

Robtard
Obvious hyperbole.

Nephthys
The Shattered God is called the Shattered God because the Greek Pantheon shattered him into pieces and threw his pieces all over the universe. So no, not hyperbole in all likelihood.

Lord Lucien
Now we're getting somewhere.


If, that's not hyperbole, and there's no mention of those pieces slowing down when they approached the god, then WW's definitely got speed down. I don't think 18's ever been seen keeping up with billions of times the speed of light. And since WW possesses enough strength and durability, I think she'll be able to handle 18. No energy blast will be able to hit her, so she won't even need her bracelets.


On a side note, Diana looks f*cking retarded in that last panel.

Zack Fair
LoL she does look retarded

Nephthys
To be honest, thats such a ridiculous feat I'm not sure what to make of it.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Now we're getting somewhere.


If, that's not hyperbole, and there's no mention of those pieces slowing down when they approached the god, then WW's definitely got speed down. I don't think 18's ever been seen keeping up with billions of times the speed of light. And since WW possesses enough strength and durability, I think she'll be able to handle 18. No energy blast will be able to hit her, so she won't even need her bracelets.


On a side note, Diana looks f*cking retarded in that last panel. That's fast enough to make 18 a statue in comparison.

18 can't even be proven to be 10% of c.

Lord Lucien
Given that even the most pathetic of characters can put enough energy in to an attack that travels at or very near light speed to blow up a moon, and that said attacks are frequently hucked out and dodged/tanked... I think a character so far above said pathetic moon-buster is moving at many times c. Though certainly not sagans times faster.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Given that even the most pathetic of characters can put enough energy in to an attack that travels at or very near light speed to blow up a moon Prove this.

Use the manga, not the anime. I will not accept anime portrayals as canon.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by NemeBro
Prove this.

Use the manga, not the anime. I will not accept anime portrayals as canon. Well I don't accept manga as a thing. So we're at an impasse.

NemeBro
Only the manga is canon, the anime is an adaption of the manga. I am right, you are wrong.

And if you want to use the anime, then FSSJ Goku, who is much stronger than 18, has his hand crushed by the weight of elephants walking on it. Which means Wonder Woman wins even easier. Happy Dance

Lord Lucien
You calling Wonder Woman fat?

NemeBro
No, she just has huge... Tracts of land.

Kazenji
Originally posted by NemeBro
Only the manga is canon, the anime is an adaption of the manga.

Even if the anime is a good adaptation?

NemeBro
If that is the criteria we are using, then Dragonball Z doesn't qualify.

Lord Lucien
I can feel thine hate boner. Yay, for it is strong and lordly.

Kazenji
Originally posted by NemeBro
If that is the criteria we are using, then Dragonball Z doesn't qualify.

Then i guess you skipped out on DBZ Kai.

Lord Lucien
He hates it anyway. But Kai was 100x better than the other dubs. I'm still pissed I wasted money on the original Funimation DVDs.

ScreamPaste
Nemebro raises a valid point though.

The anime is just an adaption of the manga, which is the true canon. There's no indication in said manga that blasts approaching c can be fire by the cast, especially that early.

There's actually a point much later in the series where Gotenks circles the earth multiple times, and it takes him far too long for him to be even approaching c. He was actively racing to test his new speed.

That precludes Piccolo's early blasts being that fast, don't you think?

Nephthys
Anime is supposed to be used when the manga isn't clear enough on something or shows something that the manga couldn't. Such as speed of attacks. However, if there are things where the anime contradict the manga, then the manga wins.

Lord Lucien
Personally I'll never use manga over DBZ's anime. My dislike of comics aside, the anime is a far bigger and more prolific part of Dragonball than the manga ever has been, both in terms of audience size and material.

ScreamPaste
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Personally I'll never use manga over DBZ's anime. My dislike of comics aside, the anime is a far bigger and more prolific part of Dragonball than the manga ever has been, both in terms of audience size and material. The scene that contradicts light speed attacks occurs in the anime.

Lord Lucien
Yes I know. Many times. Goku allowing his hand to be stepped on by an elephant contradicts that. The fact that it hurt, at Full Power Super Saiya, yet punched by a being punched repeated by super beings often get littler more than grunt... is a contradiction.

That franchise is rife with inconsistencies and contradictions.

BloodRain
If ki blasts were FTL then every normal human in that verse would have lightspeed reactions as they've been able to keep track the beams.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anime is supposed to be used when the manga isn't clear enough on something or shows something that the manga couldn't. Such as speed of attacks. However, if there are things where the anime contradict the manga, then the manga wins.
Really? I like the idea but have never seen anyone accept anything from an anime when getting a feat.

dadudemon
All of you are wrong: the anime is canon unto itself. Both the manga and anime are canon: thus sayeth the God of the Dragonball franchise: Akira Toriyama.

So any gimpers (Yes, you, Nemebro) that want to claim that the anime is not canon are factually incorrect.


The medium that can be used in this thread is determined by the OP, NOT you guys. So you can kindly STFU about what is acceptable and what is not acceptable until the OP clarifies what he wants to be used as source material in this thread.


estahuh


Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The bullet blocking argument doesn't amount to much when the weakest and most pathetic character in DBZ was still capable of this (:45).

You are using an edited clip (not cool, dude...that's dishonest).


Here's the original where the Farmer owns the utter living crap out of Radditz with his gun:

dGHWJyDSXps

Originally posted by ares834
Also, power levels don't seem to scale linearly. Otherwise the farmer in the first episode with a PL of 5 should be able to destroy mountains.

Actually, Ki energy is very potent. If the farmer knew how to harness that PL of 5, and quite well, he may very well be able to do that. Videl is able to form a tiny tiny bit of ki energy into her hands when Gohan was training her. I'd put her PL at 10-20, there.

Originally posted by Falcon Man
In other words, those lights are moving so fast they make the speed of light seem positively laughable in comparison. Wonder Woman was able to deflect and intercept a whole bunch of them, so that makes her even faster.

IMO, it is more likely that those pieces are being teleported to their location rather than traveling to their location. "Summoned" says it all, for me.

So, no, let's go with the pieces first being summoned and then being thrown at her from a few feet away. Let's just as arbitrarily say that they are moving at 50 kmh rather than billions/trillions of times faster than light because, hey, WW exceeding the laws of physics by using a greater than infinite amount of energy to move faster than light, while in a corporeal/physical form, is far less believable than her moving at around the speed of sound.

smile

But, if you want to believe she breaks the laws of physics and exceeds an infinite amount of energy, that's okay: it just doesn't make sense.



Let that be a lesson to any of you that want to make DBZ characters move faster than light (except in the instance of magical teleportion or feeling spiritual energy across the universe (like when Goku wen to SSJ3 on Earth and the Grand Kai could feel his power all the away across the universe)).


As far as who wins: obviously WW. The one thing that Dragonball characters have over many other characters in vs. matches is their ability to fight at extreme hypersonic speeds. Not speed blitzes, not straight line fight, but fighting all over hundreds of miles of land by just exchanging blows (no homo). However, in the face of characters that can react to and even counter relativistic fighters (and, supposedly, fighters that use am magical force that negates the laws of physics: SF), she has an edge.

I would put Android 18 at thousand to millions of times stronger than Post-crisis yet pre DCnU WW...if things were scaled properly and Toriyama wasn't an idiot.

However, Android 18 gets dismantled while exchanging blows with WW. I say the fight lasts 10 minutes with a 10 out of 10 for WW.




On another note, this thread should now be a rule 34: Wonder Woman sexes up Android 18.

Lord Lucien
So... does that make me Ginyu?

cdtm
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Nemebro raises a valid point though.

The anime is just an adaption of the manga, which is the true canon. There's no indication in said manga that blasts approaching c can be fire by the cast, especially that early.

There's actually a point much later in the series where Gotenks circles the earth multiple times, and it takes him far too long for him to be even approaching c. He was actively racing to test his new speed.

A few points on your points:

1. In the manga, Roshi near instantly destroyed the moon. Light takes about two seconds to make the trip.

2. The Gotenks feats is pretty ambiguous. It shows the rings, but it doesn't show whether it took him nearly his entire fusion to make the trip and that he was bluffing about taking a nap afterwards, or whether he made the trip near instantly, than took 20+ minute nap. However, he performed this feat in his unamped state. SSJ, SSJ2, and SSJ3 should be substantially faster.

cdtm
Anyways...

I think Wonder Woman beats Android 18. She's not quite as fast as Superman, but she's up there.. And unlike most of the Z crew, her speed feats are provable high end ones..

Also, her durability is pretty insane as well.. Taking class 100+ punches is par for her, and she has crazy stuff like smothering an exploding warp core against her body to protect Kyle and the surrounding city.

Lord Lucien
I think 18 beats WW. But only because she's blonde and I'm a gentleman.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Nephthys
It was said here:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/61455/2472914-2472863_wonder_woman_vs_superman4.jpg

I'm not sure if Trinity (the arc this was in) is canon though. I think it is.
Diana isn't faster than superman. She is however fast enough to engage in a fight from earth to sun and back in 1 minutes and 26 seconds. What's warrior 18's best speed feat?

BloodRain
From the manga 18's around Mach 500 via powerscaling.

The Sun thing is FTL.

Robtard
DBZ characters are FTL.

Season 1 Ep 4 "He's faster than the speed of Light" - Piccolo (in regards to Raditz, the phaggyist and weakest of Saiyans)

Lord Lucien
That's hyperbole and non-canon because I say so and it suits me f*ck off rawr!

Q99
Originally posted by Robtard
DBZ characters are FTL.

Season 1 Ep 4 "He's faster than the speed of Light" - Piccolo (in regards to Raditz, the phaggyist and weakest of Saiyans)

How would he know? He doesn't have a way of measuring, and the actual speed he shows is massively less. We have people like Frieza taking significant time to cross a mere part of a planet. A planet is way less than a light second across and it took him a fair while to travel from Nail to Dende & the dragon balls.


It's just common hyperbole.

Robtard
Because Raditz dodged an attack he made, the Special Beam Cannon. Piccolo > You.

ares834
Yeah, TBH if we allow the anime, and more particularly, the funmation dub then 18 wins. If we say the manga is canon... Then WW wins.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Robtard
DBZ characters are FTL.

Season 1 Ep 4 "He's faster than the speed of Light" - Piccolo (in regards to Raditz, the phaggyist and weakest of Saiyans) So not only are you pretending that the anime is canon (No shit it is canon to itself dadudemon every ****ing anime is canon to itself no matter how unfaithful to the manga), but that the friggin' dub is canon?

That line does not exist in the original Japanese.

Also, Diana>Elephants>FSSJ Goku>Android 18.

Lord Lucien
To be fair here, if we're going to use what the characters say in the anime, then Goku's line about his Instant Transmission allowing him to move "at the speed of light" kind of blows the FTL stuff out of the water. If that's lightspeed in their universe, then the actual fighting they do, isn't.

dadudemon
Originally posted by NemeBro
(No shit it is canon to itself dadudemon every ****ing anime is canon to itself no matter how unfaithful to the manga)

That's a bit different than the creator, who participated in the Z project, making a statement that each are canon.

I'd say you would have a hard time selling that any anime adaptation is canon to itself. Very few can be said to be "canon to themselves" because very few creators would make such a claim. smile

NemeBro
Originally posted by dadudemon
That's a bit different than the creator, who participated in the Z project, making a statement that each are canon.

I'd say you would have a hard time selling that any anime adaptation is canon to itself. Very few can be said to be "canon to themselves" because very few creators would make such a claim. smile What the creator of the manga says about the anime adaption in relation to itself means exactly nothing.

The creator of Inuyasha can certainly claim that the anime adaption is not representative of the manga she created, but she can't claim that it didn't exist and isn't canon with itself and be correct.

Now sure, the thread maker could make this anime 18, and if they do I'd respect that, but until then, I am much better than all of you mouth-breathing assblasters and as such get to decide which we are using.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by NemeBro
I am much better than all of you mouth-breathing assblasters and as such get to decide which we are using. What's Bizarro world like?

NemeBro
There's a lack of chairs.

Lord Lucien
Oh.

Robtard
Originally posted by NemeBro
So not only are you pretending that the anime is canon (No shit it is canon to itself dadudemon every ****ing anime is canon to itself no matter how unfaithful to the manga), but that the friggin' dub is canon?

That line does not exist in the original Japanese.

Also, Diana>Elephants>FSSJ Goku>Android 18.

Don't cry cos Goku wins.

Also, if this is Manga Goju Vs Comic WW, it can't exist here, so we have to go with the DBZ anime, you silly butt****er.

If you're going to use clownshoe comical low showings as the base, then Wonder Woman can't punch a guy with invulnerability without hurting herself and crying like a *****.

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/8623/wwcries.jpg

Blight
Actually it can exist here because this is Cross Genre. Things go here when they don't go anywhere else. Manga isn't allowed in the Comic Vs. iirc.

Robtard
Actually, no. Manga = comic book/novel in Japan.

If that's so, it's because the Comic Vs is retarded then; not because Mangas aren't comics.

Lek Kuen
Originally posted by Robtard
Actually, no. Manga = comic book/novel in Japan.

If that's so, it's because the Comic Vs is retarded then; not because Mangas aren't comics.
I agree that they should be able to use since they are the same medium. But they aren't allowed in comic vs

and comics aren't officially allowed in anime/manga vs but since that place isn't moderated anymore it happens.

Zack Fair
22 thousand people used to post in the Anime vs...

Now its a ghost town.

Was that PC Mongul, Robtard?

Blight
Originally posted by Robtard
Actually, no. Manga = comic book/novel in Japan.

If that's so, it's because the Comic Vs is retarded then; not because Mangas aren't comics.
I know what manga is. But I think it's allowed here because it's not allowed anywhere else.

Robtard
Originally posted by Zack Fair


Was that PC Mongul, Robtard?

Oh course.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Robtard
Also, if this is Manga Goju Vs Comic WW, it can't exist here This is false.

Cry some more.

Even allowing anime, Wonder Woman has a level of physical power several orders of magnitude greater than Android 18, sufficient to punch her head off.

Robtard
Originally posted by NemeBro
This is false.

Cry some more.

Even allowing anime, Wonder Woman has a level of physical power several orders of magnitude greater than Android 18, sufficient to punch her head off.

Read rule #1 of the forum rules you foppish bastard.

Says the guy crying and breaking the rules for a cheap win.

As noted, the phaggyist of the Saiyans is FTL. Android 18 is 5,000 times more powerful than Raditz. Suck it.

Nephthys
Manga /=/ Comics.

Robtard
Are you agreeing or being ghey?

NemeBro
Originally posted by Robtard
Read rule #1 of the forum rules you foppish bastard.

Says the guy crying and breaking the rules for a cheap win.

As noted, the phaggyist of the Saiyans is FTL. Android 18 is 5,000 times more powerful than Raditz. Suck it. Comic versus does not recognise manga as comics, stupid little sodomite.

Using anime is one thing, but making the dub take precedence over the original Japanese? You're quite the small-sacked hypocrite.

Dub lol.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Robtard
Are you agreeing or being ghey?

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs32/f/2008/231/e/0/Totallee_Ghey_by_MicaSilverwind.gif

Robtard
Originally posted by NemeBro
Comic versus does not recognise manga as comics, stupid little sodomite.

Using anime is one thing, but making the dub take precedence over the original Japanese? You're quite the small-sacked hypocrite.

Dub lol.

Idiots being idiots doesn't change the fact that "manga" is just a Japanese word for comics. By agreeing with them, that makes you an idiot X2. Maybe 3.

Stop crying, Even if you don't want to accept the English spoken version, we see Picollo's attacks as being light speed <+/->.

See above and stop crying.

NemeBro
Blublublublub Robtard is sad maybe he should an hero blublublub what a loser.

Robtard
Originally posted by NemeBro
Blublublublub Robtard is sad maybe he should an hero blublublub what a loser.

LoL, no proper retort now that your last hope for a win "the dubbed version is wrong!!!!1!!1!" has been shoved up your willing ass.

NemeBro
Not really.

Even allowing the anime, Goku's best strength feat, performed in SSJ2, is pushing two cliffs apart with effort, which isn't nearly in the same ballpark as Diana.

Diana has tagged Flash blindfolded, and with the strength to tear 18 in half, she only needs the one hit.

Diana still stomps, even if you are going to be a queer and insist on the anime being used, just because you know full well manga 18 makes it a non-argument.

Seriously, you're being a little girl, in a manner similar to quanchi. Stop it.

Robtard
We have our differences from time to time, but I've always felt we respected each other's opinions. HOW DARE YOU COMPARE ME TO QUANCHI!? That's going too far.

Nephthys
Yes, you should apologise Nemebro. That was below the belt.

NemeBro
I go for the sack first. I learned from the McClane Dojo of Martial Arts.

Robtard
Originally posted by NemeBro
I go for the sack first.

LoL, gay.

Q99
Originally posted by NemeBro
even if you are going to be a queer

Hey, not cool.

Robtard
Agreed, totally not cool. He was the one being the queer; not me.

Nephthys
Nemebro is bisexual, which means hes allowed to make fun of sex with men. It's a rule.

Robtard
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nemebro is bisexual, which means hes allowed to make fun of sex with men. It's a rule. he's a pussy who can't decide.

Agreed

Q99
Originally posted by Robtard
Because Raditz dodged an attack he made, the Special Beam Cannon. Piccolo > You.

That really just sounds like sour grapes on his part smile

Dodging an attack in no way needs, requires, or demonstrates light speed.

Robtard
Originally posted by Q99
That really just sounds like sour grapes on his part smile

Dodging an attack in no way needs, requires, or demonstrates light speed.

More like the grapes of awesome and correctness dipped in epic win sauce.

You're right, it absolutely doesn't, especially if we ignore that we see Raditz begin to dodge after Piccolo fires and we later see Piccolo blast the moon in about a second. Which tells us his attack was lightspeed <+/-> and he wasn't just saying it for the butthurts.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Q99
Hey, not cool. It's weird that this is what bothered you, rather than "sodomite", a more offensive term.

Also Robtard: Stfu only pussies constrain themselves by gender. Love people, not bodies. estahuh

Robtard
****ing fence sitter.

NemeBro
I am male, actually. While it is theoretically possible for a female to achieve sexual gratification from straddling a fence, for me it would just be at best uncomfortable, at most painful.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by NemeBro
I am male, actually. While it is theoretically possible for a female to achieve sexual gratification from straddling a fence, for me it would just be at best uncomfortable, at most painful. Really? You and I are using two very different fences then.

tjizz350
*sighs* wonder woman what has 18 done to make people think she stands a chance against wonder woman?

Lord Lucien
Kissed Krillin.

dadudemon
Originally posted by NemeBro
What the creator of the manga says about the anime adaption in relation to itself means exactly nothing.

You have that opposite: it means exactly everything when trying to incorrectly claim one is canon and the other is not: they are both canon.




Originally posted by NemeBro
Now sure, the thread maker could make this anime 18, and if they do I'd respect that, but until then, I am much better than all of you mouth-breathing assblasters and as such get to decide which we are using.

Great: as long as you admit that your opinion means absolutely nothing concerning the subject, we have no further issue. smile


Originally posted by Robtard
Idiots being idiots doesn't change the fact that "manga" is just a Japanese word for comics. By agreeing with them, that makes you an idiot X2. Maybe 3.


lulz

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