Darth Maul vs Asajj Ventress

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Nephthys
Lets see how the self-proclaimed Sith Lord ranks up.

Current Maul.

Jedi Mom
I haven't watched the current clone wars so I don't know much about her.

But because she and Obi-Wan was outmatched versus Savage and Maul, I'll say Maul. For now.

Nephthys
Bah, she was just getting beat on by Savage's monster strength. Maul doesn't have that.

I personally see Ventress as one of the premier duelists in the Clone Wars. I think it would be a close fight.

Harbinger
I'd give Ventress the edge right now. Maul looked good against Obi-Wan, but Ventress has consistently stalemated Kenobi and held up against both him and Anakin.

Good fight for damn sure, though.

SIDIOUS 66
I'm gonna say Maul. He was basically beating Obi Wan back on the last episode of TCW. And that was a Maul who was not yet accustomed to his new legs.

Also, those years of being consumed by his anger seemed to have unlocked more powers in Maul.

Jinsoku Takai
^Good observation... but Ventress is so... yeah.

DARTH POWER
Both are Dathomorians with probably similar Force sensitivity.

But one was thoroughly trained by Sidious since he was a child, whilst the other was Semi-Trained by Dooku as an adult.

Lightsaber skills- As of TPM Maul's Combat Skills were definitely superior. But I'm not sure to what degree Current Maul has retained all that skill and training.

Still might be a good fight. But HAS to be Maul for the large majority.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bah, she was just getting beat on by Savage's monster strength. Maul doesn't have that.


No he just has Monster Mechanical legs to beat on her with(as of now) which are especially deadly with his combat training.

Originally posted by Harbinger
Maul looked good against Obi-Wan, but Ventress has consistently stalemated Kenobi

Well Kenobi did beat her in the CW Movie. But apart from that it's pretty obvious he holds back more against Ventress than he does against Maul.

Originally posted by Harbinger
and held up against both him and Anakin.

Maul could likely do that for a short time with 2 Sabers. Since both Savage and Ventress have managed to do so, I don't see why Maul couldn't as long as he has 2 Sabers.

Tzeentch._
I like Ventress more but considering that she's been embarrassed time and again like Grievous, I'd probably give Maul the win.

Not counting the CW cartoon though, I'd argue that she would take it.

Nephthys
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No he just has Monster Mechanical legs to beat on her with(as of now) which are especially deadly with his combat training.

Legs which apparently he's unaccustomed to.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well Kenobi did beat her in the CW Movie. But apart from that it's pretty obvious he holds back more against Ventress than he does against Maul.

Which isn't a good thing. Maul clearly used Don Moch on Kenobi during their duel to unbalance him and get him enraged.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
I like Ventress more but considering that she's been embarrassed time and again like Grievous, I'd probably give Maul the win.

Not counting the CW cartoon though, I'd argue that she would take it.

She's also embarrassed others time and again. She kicked Grievous' ass recently, she's defeated Kit Fisto and when Luminara called her technique sloppy Ventress responded by swiftly defeating her.

Not to mention that Obi-Wan and Sidious are going to be embarrassing Maul in due time. Obi-Wan in particular pwns him and Opress it would seem.

Tzeentch._
I don't watch the cartoon so I wouldn't know- I've only seen a couple of her fights (the one in the movie where Obi-Wan beat her without even using a weapon) and a couple of the episodes.

I read about Obi-Wan embarrassing them both though. I can't wait.

edit- Defeating Grievous is never a feat, though. Gungans > Grievous.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys
Legs which apparently he's unaccustomed to.

Well "logically" it should take him time to get accustomed. But his use of them was still good enough to kick Obi-Wan around.



Originally posted by Nephthys
Which isn't a good thing. Maul clearly used Don Moch on Kenobi during their duel to unbalance him and get him enraged.

That was quite late in the fight. And not necessarily to Maul's advantage seeing as when Padawan Obi-Wan got enraged he was matching a fully trained Maul in Sabers.


Originally posted by Nephthys
She's also embarrassed others time and again. She kicked Grievous' ass recently, she's defeated Kit Fisto and when Luminara called her technique sloppy Ventress responded by swiftly defeating her.

Yeah and Maul's also defeated noteworthy Jedi Masters. But that was TPM Maul. But current Maul is due to soundly defeat Opress who battered Ventress in the last episode and will batter and kill Adi in the next.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not to mention that Obi-Wan and Sidious are going to be embarrassing Maul in due time. Obi-Wan in particular pwns him and Opress it would seem.

I don't think Obi-Wan is due to defeat Maul at any point. And they are due to fight a few times. It's Opress he solidly defeats.

And he fights them both off with 2 Sabers but I don't see how that's any different to Ventress or Savage using 2 Blades to fight off (and sometimes embarrass) Obi-Wan and Anakin.

As for Sidious embarrassing them.. Lol. As if Sidious wouldn't embarass Obi-Wan and Ventress. The fact that he uses 2 Sabers to get the job done actually gives the Maul brothers more credit.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
I don't watch the cartoon so I wouldn't know- I've only seen a couple of her fights (the one in the movie where Obi-Wan beat her without even using a weapon) and a couple of the episodes.

I read about Obi-Wan embarrassing them both though. I can't wait.

edit- Defeating Grievous is never a feat, though. Gungans > Grievous.

It's a shame about Gungans vs Grievous.

The only defense I can think of (an excuse really) was that he used 2 blades not 4 (I think). And that gungan he killed got him by surprise when GG was gloating that's he's killed him.

Tzeentch._
Using two lightsabers isn't an advantage unless the individual is skilled and trained to use two lightsabers- thus I don't see how that's really relevant.

edit- Yeah the Gungan fight is the lowest point in that show, from what I've seen. They really butchered his character. It's almost as if the writers hate him.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Using two lightsabers isn't an advantage unless the individual is skilled and trained to use two lightsabers- thus I don't see how that's really relevant.

Well Obi-Wan must be skilled at Jar Kai to accomplish that feat.

I'm just pointing out it's been done against Obi-Wan and Anakin by Savage and Ventress, so don't see why Obi-Wan using 2 Blades to fight off Opress and Maul is any different.

Especially since it's after he witnesses Opress killing Adi

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
edit- Yeah the Gungan fight is the lowest point in that show, from what I've seen. They really butchered his character. It's almost as if the writers hate him.

Filoni sticks to the line in ROTS where Mace tells Palpatine that GG is a coward and will run like he always does to justify his butchering of the character.

Tzeentch._
Why Adi is this, btw? Adi Gallia?

Nephthys
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well "logically" it should take him time to get accustomed. But his use of them was still good enough to kick Obi-Wan around.

After Obi-Wan had been knocked out and beaten up. Plus Ventress has fought Grievous before, so it's not like she's unaccustomed to mechanical limbs.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
That was quite late in the fight. And not necessarily to Maul's advantage seeing as when Padawan Obi-Wan got enraged he was matching a fully trained Maul in Sabers.

And according to the TPM novel, Obi-Wan getting enraged is what allowed Maul to beat him. Maul turned his own anger upon him.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah and Maul's also defeated noteworthy Jedi Masters. But that was TPM Maul. But current Maul is due to soundly defeat Opress who battered Ventress in the last episode and will batter and kill Adi in the next.

A>B>C, amiright?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I don't think Obi-Wan is due to defeat Maul at any point. And they are due to fight a few times. It's Opress he solidly defeats.

And he fights them both off with 2 Sabers but I don't see how that's any different to Ventress or Savage using 2 Blades to fight off (and sometimes embarrass) Obi-Wan and Anakin.

As for Sidious embarrassing them.. Lol. As if Sidious wouldn't embarass Obi-Wan and Ventress. The fact that he uses 2 Sabers to get the job done actually gives the Maul brothers more credit.

If he fights Opress and Maul at the same time and still manages to take Opress' arm off (fvck your spoiler tags), then he is likely above Maul as well since Maul was unable to stop him or pressure him enough to prevent him form getting into that situation.

I was simply making the point that Ventress isn't the only one being embarrassed by superior opponents in Clone Wars.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It's a shame about Gungans vs Grievous.

The only defense I can think of (an excuse really) was that he used 2 blades not 4 (I think). And that gungan he killed got him by surprise when GG was gloating that's he's killed him.

Grievous was slaughtering them until whatshisface caught him by surprise. It wasn't a try loss.

DARTH POWER

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
^Good observation... but Ventress is so...

...Bald?

Tzeentch._
lol. Hasn't Addi Gallia been killed twice already?

That's actually really disturbing. It's like LucasArts hates her.

DARTH POWER
Yep continuity outcry. Grievous killed her in the comic Obsession. Now it turns out Opress is the one to kill her.

But perhaps TCW plan to redo Obsession when they want to end Ventress's story.

Nephthys

Q99
My personal instinct is that, as a Sith Apprentice, Maul *should* be stronger, but of course, Ventress has been in so many duels recently to level up, even if her training isn't as good.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, the text explicitly notes that Maul turned his rage back on to him and it was what led to his defeat.

Yes and that's also noted in Obi-Wan's own account of the fight somewhere.

But it doesn't change the fact that in using his rage he lasted longer and performed better against Maul than his own master did.

Whilst before he was unable to keep up with the fight. So it obviously dramatically increased his performance in that last fight. Whether Maul was eventually able to use that against him or not is an entirely different point.

This all began with me saying Obi-Wan clearly holds back more against Ventress than he does against Maul. In fact chances are he doesn't hold back one bit against Maul. I seriously doubt that's on the whole working to Maul's advantage.



Originally posted by Nephthys
And I was only pointing out that she's embarrassed people because Blax said that she's been embarrassed herself, which he used as an example for why Ventress would lose. You're the one who made it about Ventress vs Maul by pointing out that Maul can supposedly do it too. And the way that you pointed out that Maul beats Opress who beat Ventress naturally looks a hell of a lot like an ABC argument.

Ok.



Originally posted by Nephthys
By still, he hasn't yet, so we shall have to see how easily he does it.

Yep. And we also haven't seen the Obi-Wan vs Maul & Savage fight so might as well wait another 2 and a half weeks before continuing this properly.



Originally posted by Nephthys
It might.

Doubt it cause when she disposed of Obi-Wan, she fought Anakin one on one and did not seem superior to him Imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ventress is clearly very close to their level and has been shown to be able to fight both of them quite well consistently. In the movie she kicks his ass easily, in the duel in question not only does she take out Kenobi in about 5 seconds but she smashes Anakin into a wall (whereas he only made her slide backwards)

Yep. But there wasn't a wall behind Ventress for Anakin to slam her into. Either way, they both took the force hits and carried on fighting.



Originally posted by Nephthys
To be honest I think Blax was talking out of his ass when he talked about her being humiliated in the Clone Wars. Apart from against Yoda and that stupid movie she's done quite well at avoiding getting punked.

Yeah I personally think she's looked pretty damn good in the series. And Sidious makes it clear in "Nightsisters" that she's grown significantly more powerful recently.

Originally posted by Nephthys
To more thoroughly answer your question though its a bizzare bit of PIS. Before she takes out Kenobi Anakin backs off entirely for no reason, allowing her to kick Kenobi's ass. He literally leaps backwards out of the fight. And then theres the fact that Obi-Wan apparently has a glass jaw.

Yep, but we have to see what Maul is doing when Obi-Wan cuts Savage to make the comparison. If Obi-Wan cuts Savage with one hand while simultaneously fighting off Maul with the other hand, then yeah that will prove Obi-Wan was fighting much better than Maul. But we have to see it.

But still it's a valid comparison. Ventress fought them both off while in a rage at Dooku's betrayal, and got the better of one of them while fighting them both.

Obi-Wan will be more focused and determined to defeat Savage after seeing him kill Adi, and gets the better of him while fighting off Maul as well.

I think the deciding factor will be- what happens next? After Ventress disposed of Obi-Wan she fought Anakin one on one, and couldn't seem to get the better of him before Obi-Wan was back in the fight.


So in the Obi-Wan vs Zabrak brothers, once Savage is down and defeated, and IF Obi-Wan is easily the best combatant there, then why doesn't he finish off Maul as well?? Surely Maul with an armless Savage can't escape Obi-Wan without a 3rd party involved.

DARTH POWER
LOL I've found the Maul vs Savage fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2s5H4kbmjw

It's at around 6:40.

And yeah it's a proper stomp!

Not had a chance to watch the whole thing yet, so not sure how much of the episode is on it.

Edit- Yeah checked it's just some Maul and Savage scenes. The rest is an interview.

Nephthys
Jesus, yeah ok that was a literal stomp.

ares834
lol, Savage sucks.

NTJack0
He needs to quit while he's ahead, he's awful at what he does.

Q99
Savage has a lot of raw omph and power, but that's Sith Training for you.

DARTH POWER
Looks like they're doing a Grievous on him.

Introduced him as some big Jedi killer, and now making up for it by having everyone stomp on him.

Still as for this thread I'd say Maul outclassing Savage in pretty much every way should put him above Ventress.

Q99
Yea. Maul seems to have just leveled up in general.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Q99
Yea. Maul seems to have just leveled up in general.

^ Same with CW Obi-Wan by the sounds of things.

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